[Velika]

To the people that have MLC therapists, how did you find on that specifically dealt w/ MLC? From what I've read, there is no MLC recognition. Are they hard to find? Are there ones for the LBS, as well as the MLCer?  Maybe this is not the right thread for this?

I think there are some therapists that do specialize in MLC. (For some reason I remember reading on Evas' thread that she found one?) I'm guessing perhaps in NYC and other major cities it would be easier to find someone with specific experience.

I was seeing my therapist before bomb drop — which was actually very lucky in many ways as he saw who I was before this crisis and had a lot of my own personal history. He is a transpersonal therapist, which is more spiritual and intuitive than other therapeutic models.

I have to say, I think transpersonal therapy would be ideal for a person in midlife crisis, as it is non-judgemental and deals with the health of the spirit.

[Roma]

Thank you Velika. Again, sorry to hijack the thread My3. Back to discussing NC!

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Thank you Velika. Again, sorry to hijack the thread My3. Back to discussing NC!

You asked a pertinent question.  You didn't hijack the thread.

My therapist's ex husband had gone through and MLC so I was fortunate as well. She has a lot of great insight. She told me that too many people view themselves as victims. It's that mentality that causes people to stay stuck according to her. She's good at calling me out when I'm in victim mode. That has helped.

So... back to our regularly scheduled program.

[RainbowGal]

  I went NC twice during my W's crisis.Once VERY early on…like 2 months post BD.I was so devastated I checked myself into a Wellness centre and told Pumpkin that I was going into retreat to heal and to not contact me till I was done.There was clear evidence after that 5 week period that my absence in her day to day life had an affect.I want to be clear here…I went NC at that time for ME….not to elicit any sort of response from Pumpkin,although we had a significant touch and go after the fact.
 
 

RCR does not advice No Contact. If one has any interest in reconciling, No Contact is not going to be of help.

 I think RCR does actually advise NC under certain conditions.She actually helped me during a counselling session to craft my NC letter to Pumpkin.I am one of those that has reconciled and Pumpkin will be the first to tell you that NC was instrumental in her wake up.In her own words,"it took away my soother and gave me a swift kick where I needed it."That said,our experience of NC having an effect on the MLC'r doesn't mean that NC will have the same result on others.There are no guarantees in MLC and with the vast differences in personality and relationships…one should  always follow their own hearts and intuition as to what is best for them and their distinct situation.

 NC in the case of abuse is a useful tool for the LBS.Lets be clear though,that abuse comes in many forms…not just physical….financial,emotional etc. all come to mind.An MLC'r who is actively engaged in adultery without remorse is indeed abusive.The emotional trauma I suffered from Pumpkins affair was as painful as being physically abused and has the same lingering scars.

 “One's dignity may be assaulted, vandalized and cruelly mocked, but it can never be taken away unless it is surrendered.”-Michael J. Fox

 


 

[Anjae]

I think RCR does actually advise NC under certain conditions.

For the LBS healing, like you did, and in case of abuse, that I can recall off.

"I'm not an advocate of strict No Contact in early MLC which is often a fertile time for Paving the Way because MLCers disconnect gradually. Use this time to begin laying a foundation for a future return, because MLC gets worse and contact and communication may decrease, along with your opportunities for direct contact and communication to Pave the Way. If your goal is reconciliation, at some point you need to start rebuilding communication—even though rebuilding is a future event if this crisis is still new. Purposes for No Contact
Healing "

"No Contact is an advanced tool mainly meant for later in the crisis when you have caught your breath—even though you may still feel wobbly. That does not mean you should never apply No Contact in the early days or weeks of the crisis, but the application is different and limited."

From http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels_no-contact.html

There are also these blog posts, where NC is further explained, but the blog is still down.

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/communication/no-contact_clearing-up-the-confusion/
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/communication/no-contact-more-about/

RCR is not a fan of NC early on and she does not advocate it to provoke a reaction in the MLCer. No Contact is for the LBS.

And if used early on, it for be used for a brief period and for a reason that has to do with the LBS.

It may have an effect on some MLCers, but, like you said, it does not on others. If No Contact was a sure to have a MLCer have a shake and come out of crisis, those of us who are No Contact or never contact our MLCer would all had seem our MLCers back. We haven't.

For some, all NC does is to send them further into the alienator's arms. That was Mr J's case. The more I cut contact, the closer and attached he become to OW2.

The fact that some MLCers may become closer to the alienator if the LBS goes No Contact, especially for a long time (remember than No Contact means we will not answer the phone if our MCLer calls) is a reason to caution about NC. And it is never enough to stress that NC is for the LBS, not to try to bring the MLCer back.

In the case of abuse, more than a useful tool, NC is a necessity, And if the MLCer has been physically violent, like mine or In It's we really need to stop having contact with the MLCer.

[barbiedoll]

Going back to the original question... I have been on this site since 2013, went NO contact and have been attempting to "reconcile " for over 2 years . So, here goes my 2 cents worth .

I passionately agree with NO Contact , but clearly recognize it is not for every situation , every relationship etc. I had no children under 18 , so I had no children to think of . I was employed ft and needed nothing from him ZERO. All those things change weather  or not no contact is a reasonable decision.

Having said that , I will confess that my absolute immediate intuition, survival reaction or "flee" response was to absolutely avoid any contact whatsoever. I was severely traumatised .. and that is the truth. I went NO contact before I ever realized there was such a decision to make . I never called him, text him, emailed him and I never responded to any contact from him. I threw up instead. If I absolutely HAD TO see him ( daughters University Graduation ) , I took Ativan to live thru the anxiety . . I realize , that for me it was an absolute trauma reaction, not a decision . I slammed him with boundaries because I never wanted to see him or to have him come and go from the house. There was an immediate shut down from me .

My husband's crazy midlife mindset was "I did not love him anymore , he could not make me happy and I was done with him". So my total NO contact validated his crazy thinking . My actions convinced him that in fact I did not want him, I did not love him etc etc . And yet, he was back in 93 days begging for  forgiveness and to come home. Go figure that mess out??? WTF?

If I had it to do again.. in hindsight only ... I 100% would have thrown him out of the house the day he said " I am done, I do not love you anymore ". And I would have gone no contact . The suffering I tolerated for the 4 months of his monsterring and sleeping with me and her has deeply changed who I am. All of us have tolerated such pain. I am a firm believer in no contact, the sooner the better ... afterall, the vows and commitment that were given in a marriage were broken .. there is no longer a marriage . All there is is any angry , abusive stranger . I do not need contact with this stranger .

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I think it's safe to say, that so far in our discussion there are more pros than cons for now. Let's keep this focused on the people contributing their stories. We are all familar with the articles. I don't believe we need anymore reminders. So there's no more need to post RCR's links. I'd like to stay with the research of real life stories for now. This is a discussion about results not articles. This is not about proving anyone right or wrong, it's for research purposes and being able to make a informed decision based on results. All other distactions will be ignored on my part, and will no longer be addressed by myself. I would suggest that any others who feel the same way follow suit to keep things moving.

[hopeandfaith]

I didn't use no contact early on for 2 reasons. 1) I couldn't, I was too raw. 2) We had kids. I didn't really use it later on either although I did get stronger with my boundaries.  I refused to attend outings if he was still in a relationship with OW.  Otherwise, I would spend time in his company.

My H had a fairly mild crisis so I never really got monster or any sort of entitled prat behaviour. I think I probably would have initiated no contact if I had seen that but it would have been a reaction rather than a decision.
I lost it at him a few times and I am sure he was expecting no contact to follow.  He has since told me that he would have accepted that because he knew what he had done and felt that would have been a fair consequence.

For my situation, I am in the 'stay in contact' camp.  I can see the value of NC though and there is plenty of 'evidence' to support it.  It makes sense and it does protect the LBS and give them a bit of breathing space.

I think most of us operate on instinct initially.  Some of us fight, some of us flight (like Barbiedoll described).  We are on the other side of the MLC'ers seesaw and we ride it up and down with them.  We have been intertwined with them for many years and it takes a long time to unravel from that, even if they're vanishers.  I have read lots of people talk of still being able to 'feel' their MLCer from a distance. The ability and decision to get off comes later with a clarity we wish we had in the early days.

I love that there are many long timers on this site who have so much wisdom to share and do so graciously.  I know that newbies spend a lot of time on here and soak up as much information as possible.  What I would like to say to newbies is this: You are where you are and if you can't (or don't want to) go no contact, don't.  If you want to, then do it..  Later on, if you change your mind either way, accept that you made the best decision you could at the time.  Acceptance of all of your decisions is key to your healing.  Wishing you had done something different early on is not going to help you. You can't really 'pay it forward' and save others from making your perceived mistakes either (if it did, child rearing would be a whole lot easier  )  Don't beat yourself up if you read something and feel you 'should' be doing something different.  You will do it when you're ready and if it's right for you.

[Velika]

I think this discussion is really great. I think what Rainbow and Barbie wrote about abuse is so true. I absolutely think infidelity without remorse is abuse. Some of what we call on this board "monstering" fits the definition of narcissistic abuse, which is extremely traumatic and destabilizing. Whether or not the MLCer is true NPD (something a new LBS is in no position to evaluate) bomb drop is not unlike a classic "devalue and discard."

I'm going to commit Hero Spouse heresy but I actually think the welcome letter that is posted is not forceful or instructive enough for a newly traumatized person. There is no way someone experincng imminent loss of family, home, spouse, children and the radical personality change of an MLC spouse (with blame, intentional cruelty, history rewriting, etc) can begin to comprehend the concept of "detach" -- let alone implement it.

The 180 also is not enough for this situation. Telling someone to act cheerful and positive when they are completely traumatized and likely in a state of shock is unrealistic.

To this end I feel like anyone who arrives at the forum would be far better off being told to go no contact. With specific instructions of what this means. Like a type of triage. Once the LBS has removed themselves from the abuse I think they are in a far better position to take small steps to process, take care of themselves, and evaluate what is going on.

It's true some people come to this site with more ambiguous ILYBINILWY type scenarios. In this case, giving them space may be a more appropriate response.

[Ready2Transform]

Here's the thing, though - HS isn't a program or system. RCR is pretty upfront that the articles and blog are based on her personal experience, the research she did during Chuck's crisis, and their personal outcome. I'm not speaking for RCR, but I never got the impression in the 4.5 years that I've been here that she wants people to do things any specific way. I always thought that was the strength of the mentorship team, too - there is no one "type" of mentor. So many times, just being validated and getting a pat on the back when I had a bad day was the best thing this forum offered. I could name a slew of other sites, forums, and gurus in the field who would require hundreds of dollars for access to their content or input, and you would get exactly the same guarantee that it would work for your marriage as what we are receiving here for free, only without someone profiting from our grief.

I'm not disagreeing with you that people don't require more. I absolutely think they do! But that needs to come from professional counselors, attorneys, and other professionals who will fit our specific situational needs. HS just can't provide it all, and I don't think it was ever meant to.