[Roma]

LEC,

I in no way found your comments hostile at all. The only thing I was questioning was with your good/bad thing and religion. I know many people who are not religious yet are extremely moral.

Or maybe I just didn't quite get what you were saying or maybe you just didn't realize that?

i was just trying to understand.

I also know many non-religious and atheists that are moral. I was just pointing out if you believe in moral absolutes, god or higher power are the only logical explanations. I don't believe you can say something is bad or good without the basis. I'm more getting at the "why" question. We all agree intentionally hurting a baby is bad, but why is it bad. You could say common sense, but a true deep examination requires more. My point is if you believe something to be absolutely good or bad you are basically espousing a religious belief.

Not at all. We have LAWS that have nothing to do with a religious belief. Are you saying someone's religion has to do with a law?

The separation between church and state which is in the constitution would disagree with you if you do.

There are universal laws of mankind such as hurting  child that would dictate right from wrong and have nothing to do with which ever religion or non religion you choose as well as man made laws.

[Kat0465]

I was surprised to see this topic. As I thought this whole time there was a Spiritual Side to the whole thing. H was a Knight in our Catholic Faith,we were always involved in church.We did everything together.

from the beginning, when he began to change. he was still deep into our religion, read the bible every single day. But I could feel the evil in our house if that makes sense. as OW began her take over,she would send food home with him, send him home with Fig tree saplings for Me ( I didn't know her at all)id find quotes she would write in his bible.lots of things.as he got deeper into it with OW,he would insist they were just friends, all the while his personality was changing. from sweet,caring,attentive husband. to someone I didn't even know. By BD, he was someone I didn't even recognize. the black Shark eyes, among other things. he even smelled different.

before BD my engagement ring came up missing. asked him about it. didn't know a thing, I still think to this day he took it and it resides with OW,  what would she do with an engagement ring, that was worth maybe $300??before BD I could feel the evil in that house.i made that comment to H, he said I was the evil one, that he was covered and that was my problem??

the husband I knew would have immediately Prayed for me if I would have said something like that before. H was also quoting scripture on facebook, long long sermons about how God will give you your hearts desire, all you have to do is ask.he even said no matter what you cant go to hell, that God already knows what your going to do before you do it. and your all Good.....

Sorry im jumping all over with this story, its been 4 years since and ive tried hard to forget the Horrible Awful and move on. I can tell you, I have never Felt so Attacked by the dark side before or since.

Do I think things like possession,the Devil  and the like exist? yes, I did even before the takeover of my H.  I also think there has to be some kind of break in ones soul/Psyche for the Takeover to happen. Mental issues,Hormones,FOO Issues.,Alcohol,they are all Breaks.
In H case, alcohol Particularly Burbon Played a part in the whole thing. no matter if he took one sip, or a whole bottle. the effects were Immediate and dramatic,his eyes in particular. he finally had to say that there must be something to that, because I always could tell if he had drank it.

[Roma]

When and if my H comes out of this and is able to remember and articulate his journey, I could tell you more. He's not religious in the least at all. Yet is extremely moral.

I asked him to please journal his journey so I could understand better.

[Kat0465]

Heres another one for ya.A woman I know went thru a horrible time with her H. they had tried for years to have a child.. finally did. things were Great, she had an acquaintance who told her she was into SPells/rituals all that kinda stuff.She was telling her of a particular spell for Love. in which she used these gold leaves as a part of it. well, months went on. this woman became closer to her and her H.

she was invited to a party at their house. all the while her H was acting erratic, doing Crazy stuff, distancing himself from Her and the Child. a total 360 of how he was.
a few months after this party,he left her. She was devastated  needless to say.yes he ran off with this woman.
the friend was cleaning house, and while she was putting up some Towels in their bathroom, she moved the existing pile of towels... and out fell...you guessed it 2 Gold leaves... she said she immediately got sick to her stomach and it brought back the conversation she had with the OW several months before about the spells and the leaves...

[xyzcf]

Kat0465:

But I could feel the evil in our house if that makes sense.

Perfect sense

 

I have never Felt so Attacked by the dark side before or since.

I know what you mean.

Thus, I pray this prayer each day:

Hedge Prayer for the Return of a Wayward Spouse
http://saint-mike.org/warfare/library/hedge-prayer-for-return-of-a-wayward-spouse/

I believe that our prayers for them are very powerful and indeed may be necessary for their salvation.

Never stop praying for them.

1 Peter 5: 8-11
8 Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.
10 The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ [Jesus] will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.
11 To him be dominion forever. Amen.

[Kat0465]

XYZF,
thank you I printed up that Prayer.!

[Thunder]

LEC,

I think I get what you are saying.

The Athiest you know, who are good people and live up to their high moral standards, is just that..."their" high morals standards, what they personally think is right or wrong.  They get to choose what is good or bad, with the exception of extremes, like killing someone of course. 

Moral for one person isn't necessarily moral for another.  Morals can change over time.   Their mostly personal.  You may find it immoral to live with someone outside of marriage, someone else may think if you love someone and are faithful to them then living together is ok, morally.  Just two different sets of morals.

With religion there is no choosing or changing.  What the church or your religion tells you is right or wrong, good or bad, as in the 10 commandments, that's what religious people believe.   

When something like 80% of Americans are religious/Christian it is felt by a majority to be a religious belief.

Is one better than the other?  Who knows?

Being brought up Catholic I believe what the Church, and the bible, interprets as right or wrong, good or bad.
It IS religious to me.  But I guess it's not the same for everyone.

I would never judge someone who believes differently than me.  I only have to live with MY conscience.
All we can do is respect other people's opinions and beliefs, even if we don't agree with them.

I believe in the power of prayer and I believe in God.  But we are all free, in this country, to believe what ever we want without judgment. 

[xyzcf]

At first, I was not sure about saying that prayer..it feels manipulative but I did check with my priest who agreed that it was ok for me to say it.

I had my own experience with a priest who has the gift of healing...I was unable to feel any joy..I was really stuck...I do believe that their were evil influences around me, and I know that through his intervention they were removed, quickly and I have felt differently ever since.

Other things as well...although I have been told and I tend to agree, not to focus too much on the evil one as that gives him too much power.

Even The Lord's prayer acknowledges evil...." and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil"

[Roma]

Knowing most people in here would be religious I try to not talk about my way of life at all. We don't 'believe' in 'marriage in a church'. It would take too much explaining.

So with most everything on this site, I read what someone says and try to put their words into something I can understand in my mind.

I admit 'demonic possession'  is something I can't grasp as of yet. So I have no opinion because I just don't get it... so I move on.

[strongFaith34]

My H had sudden strange behavior after BD, I could tell he was having nightmares and even started humming in his sleep. He would struggle to say I love you when just weeks before he said it easily. The sudden change from love to extreme hatred towards the spouse is just hard to swallow or rationally understand.