[Onward]

Hi Phoenix - while you were posting this, I was adding more context to my thread and hope it helps clarify where we are in agreement, and where & how we might see things differently.

No, I don't put you in any camp.
I don't even like the notion of camps.
We could use fewer "camps" and more exploring. 

That's one of the rings of defence in cognitive dissonance. Camps make people selective about what they will be exposed to, how they will perceive things, what they will remember, and what they will pay attention to.

[Phoenix]

I don't even like the notion of camps.
We could use fewer "camps" and more exploring. 

That's one of the rings of defence in cognitive dissonance. Camps make people selective about what they will be exposed to, how they will perceive things, what they will remember, and what they will pay attention to.

Agreed

Rarely is a longer term stander who still expresses love for their spouse, who is in communication with their spouse, and hasn't found a new relationship, ever actively encouraged in their work, or acknowledged as a success.

Yet, angry people aren't wished healing.
People who are hostile to their spouse aren't wished healing.
People who personalize disagreement aren't wished healing.

This has genuinely not been my experience of the board in my 6 years here. That does not mean that I would tell you that it has not been your experience of the board, Onward. There is no intention to invalidate or patronize.

In the early days this was a small intimate group in which we all kept up with each other's situations, and conflicts/misunderstandings were rare and mostly quickly resolved because we knew each other well enough to give the benefit of the doubt much of the time and we were all new to this and stumbling along. There are pros and cons to a group getting so large (4000 members, I believe) and change and evolution are inevitable, but I still believe all of us have a place here.

Phoenix

[Medusa]

V, I completely disagree that a speedy divorce is in everyone's best interest. It definitely wouldn't not have been in mine.

STBX makes more than he did at BD three and a half years ago. Assuming I am actually divorced one of these days, I benefit much more than I would have 3 years ago. More important, I was given the gift of time where I was able to get myself together and make informed decisions. Had I started the divorce process right away, I wold have given him many things because I was still standing and would have done anything not to to anger him/push him further away. I now have strength. I'm not afraid of him, and I really don't care if he gets mad at me, anymore.

I've learned that there are very few absolutes in life. The only one I would say around heere is that an LBS should seek legal counsel as soon as s/he is able because financial preservation is so important. Otherwise, we should remember that everyone's situation is unique.

Onward, I am with you regarding camps. But I don't see people not wished healing. Your examples are, in my reading, all forms of anger. Many of us discuss how anger is healthy and normal have our way of wishing healing. I see it in some form every day.
 

[limitless]

The only comment that I would make is in regards to the words we use when posting.

In my opinion - our statements or posts come from our own experience and our situations.  There are no scientifically documented statistics supporting our claims.  Our stories and comments are anecdotal....our perceptions and feelings, based upon our own experiences.

We must be careful that we not use the terms - ALL, ALWAYS, EVERYONE, etc.

Each case in unique...everyone's experience, while there is much similarity, our experiences are uniquely our own.

I have little hope in Standing (as it relates to the reconciliation of my relationship), due to my own experience.  I believe that Standing helped me to heal and move forward in my life.  It helped me to make good decisions for myself and my kids.  I will always be thankful that I took the time to heal....breathe.....and did not react to the changes in my life.  It helped me to accept the changes in my life.

I truly can only comment on my own experience....and nothing else.

This is a very thought provoking discussion.

L

[Velika]

M, to clarify I was trying to make a qualified endorsement of at least retaining a lawyer while acknolwleding that there are some arguments to be made for waiting too.

I agree a reason to wait is to be more clear-sighted and also less concilatory.

😘

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

I always try to approach comments on HS like I would a sponsee or at a 12 step meeting. Keep the focus on myself. Share my experience, strength and hope. Don't ever say, "you should..." I know nothing but my own experience and what I have read on this site regarding MLC. We are all the same but very different.

Nice reconciliation story: My mom told me at church yesterday (I was feeling sick so I missed it) they showed a video of some of the congregation's successful marriages. One couple had been separated for 8 years. They pretty much lost touch after the breakup. I don't know the circumstances but they reconciled after the 8 years and had been married a long time. Anything is possible.

For me, I knew I had to get a legal separation to establish support, custody, visitation, and protect financials. My H is a recovering addict and though he has 9 years clean, he is acting as if he is using. I have to prepare myself for a relapse. Our legal separation document is 45 pages. I even included a clause that H had to buy into a long term disability policy. That way, if he gets ill from relapse or something else I'll still get child and spousal support. My H was a high functioning crack addict--a successful construction manager. But when his addiction caught up with H, he was essentially homeless and destitute. H wanted divorce and claims he still does but I stopped it. He'll have to serve my those papers. He started this and he should finish it if that's what he wants. Our legal separation should be filed in county court next week and I am grateful I did it. I am also grateful I am not getting a divorce next week. I suspect, though, that OW will press him to divorce me. H is a compulsive liar even with recovery and I'll bet he lied to OW that we are divorced.

Hugs to you all!!!

[nah]

Rollercoasterrider's latest blog post:

Reconciliation: If You Stand, Will Your MLCer Return?
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/standing-and-divorce/reconciliation_will-your-mlcer-return/
   

Time

Consider the reconciliations you know about, how much time was there from Bomb Drop to Reconciliation? Most reconciliations happen in the early years. That is not to say that they do not happen later, but the odds go down with time.

This is still bothering me.  I was under the impression that there are not any reliable statistics...so were does this come from??  The single word "odds" tells me that this site is keeping track of returners and the length of time.  Is this a fact or is it an opinion?  Is there any evidence that backs up this statement?  If so, please let us know. 

[stillbaffled]

Attaching.

[Anjae]

Nah, We do try to keep track of those in the board who reconnect or reconcile, hence the light and dark icons. But we can only do that with people who are around, or come around to tell if that was so for them.

Most HS members stop posting after a while (that I know because I work in the Archives as well as on the Inactive Stories). There are some who have been regulars for years, and others who stick a around for some time, then stop being around, then one day pop up.

We do not know what has happened in the lives of the many who have stop updating.

For a while, it seemed the purple icons were being given to people whose MLCers were reconnecting in the 3-3.5 yearks mark. But now we have members with purple icons whose times frames are longer than that.

We also have members that still do not have purple but whose spouses are getting closer to them. And some are past the 5 years mark.

If I am not mistaken, a while ago, RCR had written that most reconciliations happened in the 3-3.5 years mark. That was one of the issues that was debated when this blog post was being prepated by RCR and not all mods/mentors agree with it.

What experience tells me is that, yes, the more times goes by the less likely reconciliation will be, but not because the MLCer is not returning, the reason, for me, is the LBS, that often has moved on.

No, I am not saying people have to stand. I am not standing (I have always explaining that standing would make me feel trapped) and for me standing, regardless of for a few years or forever, not standing, changing from standing to not standing back to standing, are individual choices.

I do however agree that a grace standing period is useful and helpful for the wellbeing and healing of the LBS.

For me the others two things are that divorce and not standing do not equal lack of reconnection or reconciliation, or the MLCer wanting to. The former real life MLCers I know were divorced, their spouses did not stand, but the MLCers still wanted back.

So, the longer this goes on, is it more likely-- or less likely -- that MLC might end and there might be a reconciliation?

The more this goes on the more likely the crisis may end (but for those MLCers who remain in MLC forever, but for me those are the exception). But that does not mean a reconciliation is more likely.

MLC takes a lot of time. During that time MLCers do many horrible things and some keep adding insult to injury for years on end, making it much harder for the whole situation to end in reconciliation. Also, the more time goes by, the more the chances the LBS stops standing, moves on, finds someone else.

Of course people may reconcilie at any point. They may even reconcile if both MLCer and LBS had remaried, and, of course, divorce the people they had married. 

[stayed]

Good discussion!

hugs Stayed