[karmirtsaghik]

I agree with you Thunder. I am a first generation American, and I love America with all its faults and deficiencies. I do not have here neither close friends not family, still America is much much friendlier to new comers than many countries. Some of the contributers on this treat had some choice words to say about a country of 320 mln very diverse and heterogenous population, which I neither agree with nor appreciate. Especially, considering that our tax payers still pay for these countrie's defense. I think that we ,who did not vote for or agreed with what Trump said, instead of attacking a vast majority of people who did, should start changing ourselves, and ask ourselves why the Democratic party has become a party of liberal elites, so distant from the real life America. The change that we seek should start from ourselves.

[terrified_in_TN]

Evas,

  I think you fail to see that what you said to OP about his wife leaving could easily be as offensive and hurtful to HIM as what Trump has said seems to be equally hurtful to you...

  I'm gonna get blasted for this, but hey..its the truth...that is how a lot of guys talk in private.  Sad, but brutally honest.  But you know what...some woman are equally as bad, if not WORSE.

  Note, I didn't say I like the guy or approve (he is a pig), but I think what is more important here is do you agree or disagree with his policy.  You can't control what HE says or does (except in this case through your vote), but you can control what you say and do.

I have to say, I am really disappointed.  We all talk about becoming "healed and healthy" which part of is RESPONDING not REACTING.

THIS is why I don't get into politics.  I figured this political thread *might* have a chance, being as we are all supposed to be grown, civil adults, but to be honest, am surprised it has lasted THIS long.

-T

[in it]

If you can look at "the Donald" and all he says about women (minorities etc) as projection. You may see this is how he feels about himself.

 I think he has very low self esteem. He's gotten where he is doing God knows what. And the money he has made has created an "image". It hasn't bought him class that's for sure.

I'm not saying have any compassion or pity for him. He may have a lot of growing up to do. I do believe at their core people really don't change unless it's a benefit to them.  And sometimes it rarely lasts.

IMHO he has a lot of damage to undo.

[evas]

TN,
What Trump has said isn't "hurtful" to "me". It is abusive to half the Earth's population. It's discrimination. You're underplaying it.

Many men have stood up after that tape was played ad nauseam to say that it is NOT normal locker room talk. So I really don't want to hear any excuses. And now I'm referring only to the "kitty-grabbing", because the other inflammatory remarks about women have been made in public by Trump during his campaign.

I stand by this: If you think it is OK to be demeaning to women, then I understand if women leave. If I had a daughter and a man talked about her or thought it was OK to talk about her like "a piece of ass", then I would advice my daughter to run as fast as she could. And if I heard of a woman leaving such a man, I'd understand. And let me just once again remind you, we dole out that advice to Left Behind Spouses here all the time: Do not take abuse. I'd always thought that included verbal abuse. Can you call Trump's remarks anything but verbal abuse?

[evas]

As for Trump's policy, it's all up to you.

Here's a collection of Day 1 in Trump's America.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

And that's all I will say.

[stayed]

Oh right Anjae, but it's OK for the next first lady to have been a PORN STAR!  Wow the double standards in this room are amazing. 

1500 bucks for somebody to disrupt his DISGUSTING rallies, accusations from the Trump Camp... yea right!  Yet, it's ok for the Trump campaign to get information through RUSSIA.  Even if the disruption story is true, tell me, which is worse OP... you an x military man... a republican candidate in bed with RUSSIA or a silly crowd disruptor, even if it did happen which somehow, I doubt. 

Hilary Clinton is an amazing role model for girls. INCREDIBLE actually... not only has she had an amazing career, been first lady, senator, secretary of state...raised a wonderful daughter... adores her grandchildren...she showed people that marriage CAN SURVIVE ANYTHING... if you can't all see that, then what the firetruck are we all doing here? What more could any ONE PERSON do?  Yet, because people were threatened by her, her wonderful intelligence, her ability to get things done, you rejected probably one of the best PRESIDENTS you could ever have had. 

As for opinions, so what.  If you can't take the heat... GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN... don't be stupid, this is controversial, very controversial.... all you women and men like OP, that I totally respected... I have lost that!  Will it return, I don't know.  Not sure how, because all I can see is hypocrisy.  Abuse is abuse people.  Donald Tump is a sick disgusting person.  We heard him, in his own voice tell us what he thought of women and how being a celebrity he can do WHATEVER HE WANTS to them.  How he would deliberately go into their dressing room when he knew they would be undressed or mostly undressed.  If you think that's ok, then shame on you... all of you, MEN and WOMEN.  That's wrong.  That is taking advantage of his position.  People lose jobs for so much less.

I think this is so sad.  You people are just afraid!  You men that voted for Trump are afraid that if Hilary became president then there goes ALL YOUR POWER.. you were no longer head of the household. Somehow you loose your rightful place in the universe, head of the house, the business, the world.  Boo hoo!  You women, even worse...you despise strong women.  Somehow, strong, powerful women are not doing what they SHOULD be doing, although many like Hilary, actually raised her child, ran her home and held a powerful important job. You would rather be silly little SEX KITTENS that men DESIRE. Have a man tell you what you should do and how.  You don't value yourselves.   Rather then being proud of someone of our own sex achieving so much and possibly be the next president of the United States of America, a little over half the women that voted, voted for her.  Instead, just a little less then half, voted for a man that speaks at a grade 3-6 level.  How sad is that?

I bet many of you people that voted for Trump have a cute little T-shirt, that says, PROUD TO BE A DEPLORABLE ADORABLE...or is it, an ADORABLE DEPLORABLE... isn't that just the cutest thing ever?  Aren't you all just so proud?  Or how about a nice T-shirt that said, BEAT THE b!tc#... that was one of my favourites actually. 

I'll tell you what, we'll respect your opinion when you show some RESPECT for yourselves.  When you admit how deplorable those disgusting words out of that mans mouth were. 

And Anjae, don't you dare tell me, that it is different for a running president.  The French President's wife and mistress were at his funeral, so PLEASE... lets not make a WOMAN have a HIGHER standard then ANY FIRETRUCKING MAN! 

Then to top it all off, if anybody thinks the world should not be concerned about your NEUCLEAR ARSENAL being in the hands of that man... then you have to be stupid. What is your excuse OP, you are actually an X-military man. You may be able to dispel his ridiculous comments as NO BIG DEAL, but the rest of us, who listen to what he says, have absolutely no reason to believe that he would even hesitate to push the button in retaliation.  He is a HOT HEADED, STUPID person. The man is revengeful and if you do not think he will be taking his revenge from anybody and everybody who opposed him... you are crazier then he is.

Plus finally and probably the most important part of all, I would have though after all we have been through, we would be standing as one voice here.  How any of us cannot see the INSANITY in that man's eyes, after all the research and scrutiny we have all done, on personality disorders, bi-polar, narcissism, depression, on and on and on, the fact that any of us would for one second believe that this man is of sound mind and body is UTTERLY incomprehensible.  I can't believe that any of us would be comparing Hilary Clinton to the disgusting antics that we all WATCHED Donald Trump do, repeatedly throughout this entire election period, from the preliminaries right straight through to the final day. 

Stayed

[terrified_in_TN]

Evas, I will gracefully bow out now.  You missed my entire point.  What you said could have been as easily hurtful to OP, but you are downplaying THAT.

I think OP was mature enough to just let it go, and not react.  Kudos to him.

-T

[evas]

So we should now apologize to people who are verbally abusive?? You're right, I don't get your point.

Anyone who voted for Trump feel free to explain how it is OK to behave like he's behaved during his campaign not only to women but to the disabled to Hispanics etc. Your vote shows you are OK with it.

It is racism, sexism, hate, bigotry and a deep-seated fear of powerful women that made Trump president.

I love America but I am embarrassed right now. Trump is an embarrassment who makes us all look like idiots.

[terrified_in_TN]

Ugggg...I NEVER said it was OKAY what Trump said.  I don't think anyone has.  My point was it wasn't okay what you said to OP either, but you don't see it!

Because his political views didn't align with yours, you made a PERSONAL attack.

I see Stayed is equally as passionate about her beliefs, but NO WHERE in any of her posts have I seen any personal attacks.

-T

[Phoenix]

The point is being missed, as it was missed (or summarily ignored or rationalized) by a lot of Americans, it seems. This is not about a difference of political party or opinion. This is about abuse and assault and perpetuating and dismissing the impact of rape culture and hatred. Many Republicans crossed party lines and, if Hillary was Republican and Trump was Democratic, I would have crossed lines on this election also.

And rather than be concerned about protests, though I too hope for peaceful ones, be concerned that the KKK is advertising a victory parade following Trump's election and all of this:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/day-1-in-trumps-america-highlights-racist-acts-violent-threats-w449787

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2016/11/10/racist-acts-experienced-since-day-1-of-trump.html

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/304086-trump-child-rape-accuser-calls-off-news-conference-over-threats

Perhaps it will be more clear for some if coming from a man. Here is the report about Stan Van Gundy, head coach for the Detroit Pistons:

"Detroit Pistons head coach Stan Van Gundy blasted US President-elect Donald Trump on Wednesday in a nearly six-minute rant. Speaking to media before the Pistons' Wednesday night game against the Phoenix Suns, Van Gundy said he was stunned and "ashamed" of the US for electing Trump.

"I don’t think anybody can deny this guy is openly and brazenly racist and misogynistic and ethnic-centric," Van Gundy said. "We have just thrown a good part of our population under the bus, and I have problems with thinking that this is where we are as a country."

Van Gundy said the team was quiet on Wednesday and he believed it was because of a 32-point loss on Monday night. However, he added that center Aron Baynes told him it was because of the election results.

Van Gundy then delivered a ruthless rant, slamming Trump and the people who voted for him
"What we have done to minorities and women in this election is despicable. I’m having a hard time dealing with it. This isn’t your normal candidate. I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

"I understand problems with the economy. I understand all the problems with Hillary Clinton, I do. But certain things in our country should disqualify you. And the fact that millions and millions of Americans don’t think that racism and sexism disqualifies you to be our leader, in our country ... . We presume to tell other countries about human-rights abuses and everything else. We better never do that again, when our leaders talk to China or anybody else about human-rights abuses."

Van Gundy added, "I have been ashamed of a lot of things that have happened in this country, but I can’t say I’ve ever been ashamed of our country until today."
Van Gundy then addressed the population that voted for him, challenging evangelical Christians on "what Bible [they] are reading."
"And then you read how he was embraced by conservative Christians. Evangelical Christians. I’m not a religious guy, but what the hell Bible are they reading? I’m dead serious. What Bible are you reading? And you’re supposed to be — it’s different. There are a lot of different groups we can be upset at. But you’re Christians. You’re supposed to be — at least you pride yourself on being the moral compass of our society. And you said, 'Yeah, the guy can talk about women like that and abuse them. I’m fine with that. He can disparage every ethnic group, and I’m fine with that.'"

Trump won Michigan, but Van Gundy said he was proud of Oakland County, Michigan, where he lives, for voting for Clinton. He said, "I’m going to walk into this arena tonight and realize that — especially in this state — most of these people voted for the guy. Like, (expletive), I don’t have any respect for that. I don’t."

Van Gundy is not the first, and he certainly will not be the last, professional sports figure to come out against Trump. "

And here is the Letter Aaron Sorkin wrote his wife and 15 year old daughter after Trump Was Elected President


"NOVEMBER 9, 2016

Sorkin Girls,

Well the world changed late last night in a way I couldn’t protect us from. That’s a terrible feeling for a father. I won’t sugarcoat it—this is truly horrible. It’s hardly the first time my candidate didn’t win (in fact it’s the sixth time) but it is the first time that a thoroughly incompetent pig with dangerous ideas, a serious psychiatric disorder, no knowledge of the world and no curiosity to learn has.

And it wasn’t just Donald Trump who won last night—it was his supporters too. The Klan won last night. White nationalists. Sexists, racists and buffoons. Angry  white men who think rap music and Cinco de Mayo are a threat to their way of life (or are the reason for their way of life) have been given cause to celebrate. Men who have no right to call themselves that and who think that women who aspire to more than looking hot are shrill, ugly, and otherwise worthy of our scorn rather than our admiration struck a blow for misogynistic $h!teheads everywhere. Hate was given hope. Abject dumbness was glamorized as being “the fresh voice of an outsider” who’s going to “shake things up.” (Did anyone bother to ask how? Is he going to re-arrange the chairs in the Roosevelt Room?) For the next four years, the President of the United States, the same office held by Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, F.D.R., J.F.K. and Barack Obama, will be held by a man-boy who’ll spend his hours exacting Twitter vengeance against all who criticize him (and those numbers will be legion). We’ve embarrassed ourselves in front of our children and the world.

Our NATO allies are in a state of legitimate fear. And speaking of fear, Muslim-Americans, Mexican-Americans and African-Americans are shaking in their shoes. And we’d be right to note that many of Donald Trump’s fans are not fans of Jews. On the other hand, there is a party going on at ISIS headquarters.

So what do we do?

First of all, we remember that we’re not alone. A hundred million people in America and a billion more around the world feel exactly the same way we do.

Second, we get out of bed. The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, “coastal elites,” educated, socially progressive, Hollywood…) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I won’t give them that and neither will you. Here’s what we’ll do…

…we’ll firetrucking fight. (Roxy, there’s a time for this kind of language and it’s now.) We’re not powerless and we’re not voiceless. We don’t have majorities in the House or Senate but we do have representatives there. It’s also good to remember that most members of Trump’s own party feel exactly the same way about him that we do. We make sure that the people we sent to Washington—including Kamala Harris—take our strength with them and never take a day off.

We get involved. We do what we can to fight injustice anywhere we see it—whether it’s writing a check or rolling up our sleeves. Our family is fairly insulated from the effects of a Trump presidency so we fight for the families that aren’t. We fight for a woman to keep her right to choose. We fight for the First Amendment and we fight mostly for equality—not for a guarantee of equal outcomes but for equal opportunities. We stand up.

America didn’t stop being America last night and we didn’t stop being Americans and here’s the thing about Americans: Our darkest days have always—always—been followed by our finest hours.

Roxy, I know my predictions have let you down in the past, but personally, I don’t think this guy can make it a year without committing an impeachable crime. If he does manage to be a douche nozzle without breaking the law for four years, we’ll make it through those four years. And three years from now we’ll fight like hell for our candidate and we’ll win and they’ll lose and this time they’ll lose for good. Honey, it’ll be your first vote.

The battle isn’t over, it’s just begun. Grandpa fought in World War II and when he came home this country handed him an opportunity to make a great life for his family. I will not hand his granddaughter a country shaped by hateful and stupid men. Your tears last night woke me up, and I’ll never go to sleep on you again.

Love,

Dad"


Thank goodness for men who get it. Who get that what a person says and does is their policy and who they are. Men who don't rationalize, don't excuse, don't minimize or deflect attention back to themselves and away from the much bigger issues. I would love to have a collective voice, but one has to live what women live to genuinely comprehend this, or have a level of awareness--including about their own privilege--to understand it at least to the extent that men like Gundy, Sorkin, Obama and others do.

Rape crisis counselors are in overdrive at schools since Trump was elected, including my D's university, because it is triggering a wave of shock and PTSD for sexual harassment and assault victims to know that the President of their country is an abuser of women, and their fellow citizens cared so little that they dismissed or rationalized the facts, seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears, and elected him anyway.

Phoenix