[Shelly7435]

T and gman. I got the no passion as well.  Thank you for your post it helped a lot!!!

gman: they would run!!!

[Puzzled]

Hi Denjef,

Thank you very much for posting about your own experience with depression, it is very helpful!

I'd love to hear your input on boundaries, truth darts, and letting the MLCer feel the full consequences of their decisions vs. not creating negativity and letting them take the lead.

Here is some background to my situation:

H has been unhappy/bored since about 2013 (possibly earlier)
2014: very secretive with his cell phone, trying to establish an EA, irritable, not a lot of interest in doing things as a couple
August 2014: ILYBINILWY speech, H said that he would move out if he could (financially) and start dating
2014/2015: I focused on H/our marriage but this didn't seem to do much; H was very stressed about his job situation, and we decided that we would move abroad if he was offered a permanent job
September 2015: H moved abroad for a job, D8 and I were supposed to follow
Three weeks later: H "ended" our marriage via email

Since then, I hear a lot of "We/I must move on to find happiness" and "My love for you has never been that strong".  H comes to visit every 6 to 8 weeks for a long weekend, staying in my (formerly our) apartment to see D8.  H stresses his love for D8 and says he cannot live without her in his life but doesn't contact her much between visits and seems to prefer family activities when he is here.  We are quite civil to each other.

For Christmas, he is planning to come for 8 days (as he did in 2015).  He also announced a week ago that he will make himself available for romantic relationships from now on (H has been dating for many months but has been telling me that he isn't; from notes I saw, there is an OW1, which H considers dumping if OW2 becomes available).

I’ve sent truth darts in the past year (e.g. happiness does not come from another person but from within oneself), and told him that I do not want a divorce but feel that I’m repeating myself.  Also, I’ve been trying to follow Bilotta’s advice of not creating “against energy” for a few months now.  In H’s email telling me about him “starting” to date, H also asked again how I see the situation (I haven’t replied yet).  Was there anything that reached you when you were in the fog (e.g. truth darts) or was it more helpful to you when you didn’t feel any resistance from your H?

Are boundaries important for people in the tunnel so that the MLCer feels the full consequences of his actions (e.g. not celebrating Christmas together, not staying in my apartment)?  I feel that I have detached quite well and can handle it emotionally that we have a lot of contact when he is here.

I’d love to hear whether anything in this respect helped you gain some clarity when you were in the tunnel.

[gman242]

Interesting points.. I would aslo like to know

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Sorry about jumping in here but here's what I think.

First, this is not about you or your marriage. It's about your husband, his crisis, and what he thinks he needs to do. Anything you do that seems to get in the way of what he thinks he needs to do will be met with monster and/or will be used by him to justify what he's doing. Anything else that you do simply won't register with him because at this time you are not a part of what your husband thinks he needs in order to feel better. It's like he's indifferent about eating broccoli and you threaten to take his broccoli away. So what?

Second, boundaries are to protect you, not to influence the MLCer. It's more likely that the boundary will have a negative impact on your husband than a positive impact, especially early in the MLC. You put boundaries into place to stop the negative impact your husband's actions are having on you and your family. The only time a boundary may have a positive impact is when your husband is well into the crisis and is beginning to consider the possibility of returning. Then it might influence him by scaring him into believing that if he doesn't do something soon he could lose you. Even then, I would consider it to be a negative impact because it may cause him to return before he's ready, potentially leading to a failed return.

[strength]

When you talk about boundaries, what are you saying exactly?  I moved 1000 miles away so how can I set boundaries?  H is stalling D so I threatened court, and H does nothing about it.  It is as though I don't exist.  My H does not care about the holidays that were beautiful with family.  Spending them with OW - no remorse.  I am so confused with so much of the MLC.  H still blames me.  OMG!!!!  Please explain the best way for LBS to make the MLC'er realize what they are doing and have done.  3+ years seems like there should be some changes with them.

[Butterfly777]

IMO, you can't make the MLCer see or do anything! The only thing you have control over is yourself . A lot of the advice that's given here is to live as if they're not coming back. To GAL, to heal , to mourn, to work on yourself and let them have their crisis . What they've done is between God and them and some of them never snap out of it . From all that I've been reading here , it's the LBS that have the decision in the end . Most LBS have moved on by the time they snap out of it . Some have grown and no longer fit with the MLCer when they snap out of it . Boundaries are set to keep you from going insane and spiraling... Especially for the clingers, boomerangs and the ones that don't leave home .  But no matter what to say what you will and will not put up with. This is just my opinion and I truly know how devastating all of this is !

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Jumping in. I'm using boundaries, and they have helped my peace of mind.

Since I went NC as soon as I got divorced, he kept clinging ( boomerangs anytime he thinks I'll take the bait ). He has been anchor checking less and less, but he still tries. I'm in ghost mode, so the only thing that he can do is check my blog ( which he does often ). My kids are D&D so that also helps. Boundaries are best when you are strong enough to be able to follow through. Don't even think about instilling them if you're going to cave. You won't gain any ground for yourself and healing if you allow them to continue with their antics.

Remember your MLCer is going to look for chinks in your armor, so be ready. Because I have flat out refused to deal with him, the AD is now ramping things up. This to me is a sign that things aren't so great in Lala land. Does this mean that there's movement? Don't know, that's not the issue. I just know that things have calmed down on my end.

The only one you can control is you is true. And, if you get yourself under control, they can't really rattle your cage much. Focus on yourself. If they ever snap out, one of you has to be healthy. If they don't, you still need to be the healthy one. Boundaries help you to become stronger, they're not supposed to be a punishment. It's better to take care of yourself and let them do what they have to do. It's painful, but you won't have any regrets in the end.

[Watcher]

I have been back and forth in 17 months since BD. We've been 8.5 months apart and 8.5 months living together under one roof. I have to agree that NC works wonders on myself. She is abusive, mostly verbal but she started to graduate to physical.  I'm currently 34 days NC/Dark since I left and it's for me.

The boundary is for me because I have a tendency to still look at her as a wife. In my case she lives in the family home with our sons. If I permit myself to be beaten down than what good will that serve my boys. Yes, one parent has to be healthy and I cannot be that person without the boundaries.

This whole episode in our lives is trial by error. Should I have done NC sooner. Probably. But I had to go through the fire to get where I am finally at. So I wholeheartedly agree with My3girls, I am using boundaries to maintain my peace of mind.

[1trouble]

Sorry about jumping in here but here's what I think.

First, this is not about you or your marriage. It's about your husband, his crisis, and what he thinks he needs to do. Anything you do that seems to get in the way of what he thinks he needs to do will be met with monster and/or will be used by him to justify what he's doing. Anything else that you do simply won't register with him because at this time you are not a part of what your husband thinks he needs in order to feel better. It's like he's indifferent about eating broccoli and you threaten to take his broccoli away. So what?

Second, boundaries are to protect you, not to influence the MLCer. It's more likely that the boundary will have a negative impact on your husband than a positive impact, especially early in the MLC. You put boundaries into place to stop the negative impact your husband's actions are having on you and your family. The only time a boundary may have a positive impact is when your husband is well into the crisis and is beginning to consider the possibility of returning. Then it might influence him by scaring him into believing that if he doesn't do something soon he could lose you. Even then, I would consider it to be a negative impact because it may cause him to return before he's ready, potentially leading to a failed return.

I totally agree with Brain and want to say, and I hope any newbies reading the boundaries and NC comments do it, whilst bearing in mind that everyone's stories are different, their marriage, their personalities and their MLC experience.......
So when you read this stuff please remember that and do what your instincts tell you is the right thing to do for your MLC'er and your situation.

As I have said a number of times, it is my opinion that there are distinct personality types and if your MLC'er is someone who has low self esteem, hates confrontation and is very insecure, all NC does is breaks any chance of communication in the future.

Now if your MLC'er is a bit a a narcissist or very sure of themselves, then NC can work because nothing will make them stop contacting  because they have a believe they are more important than anything.....

NC is fine if you need a break from this, if they are monstering, if you feel you cant cope BUT if you keep it up and your MLC'er is a low confidence type before MLC you may also find, they then think you have given up on them, that maybe they don't deserve you anymore, or they should just leave you to find someone else....

So whereas I think you should leave them alone as much as possible, I also feel you shouldn't let the contact drop completely.......

In my sitch my H started out as clinging boomerang but 7 months in, due to OW pressure he dropped contact and ever since we have gone as much as 3 months without talking (we don't have kids so there is very little reason to talk about day to day things) BUT on my therapists advice I have occasionally contacted him (when there has been something relevant) and it has lead to some very good touch and goes with very revealing information which I have documented....but in the main I think its good to let them get on with it, but not to the point you move in complete opposite directions...........
just my opinion

BTW Def thank you so much for your insights there were bits that particularly hit home for me in my situation currently.  I have done a huge amount of research on this and collated a big post on what previous MLC'ers have said about the fog, tunnel and their journey but new insights and experiences are always so good to read.....
And I totally agree with what you said about Lettinggo's posts, I found them last year and I totally agree with you on how amazing they are.
She was a really gutsy woman with some great observations and I have mentioned her several times in my posts.....I don't know how her story ended but If anyone deserved a happy ending she did.

[denjef31]

  Hmm, boundaries, I will share what I felt during my depression. My H tried to put boundaries up because I was hurting him and he kept reaching out and hoping for different results, something positive from me and I just couldn't give it to him. Honestly, in the beginning when he tried to go NC, and just detach it just didn't work because I didn't care, I was happy when he didn't call, didn't come by as it relieved the pressure off of me and I didn't have to tell him I didn't want a relationship. I was happy in my ignorant bliss and doing whatever I wanted to do. He would always break his own boundaries though after weeks go by and not a peep from me because again I just didn't give a rat's a$$. I didn't know that is what he was doing but clearly looking back he was trying to protect himself.

Boundaries can be a good thing, just make sure you are prepared for whatever may come from enforcing boundaries because you may not get a positive response from it.