[Airmid]

The "why" question.
This has been the toughest part for me.
Sometimes I reason it out and think I have a partial answer.
Othertimes I find myself back at square one with no idea.

For me the "why" is a cyclical thing.
If I am depressed - the why looms large.
If I am in a better space - I can say - "I may never truly know, so I just have to accept what is."

[denjef31]

Gman,

No sense in sharing your fustrations or feelings about your wife MLC, because unless who you are talking to has been thru it or they are close with someone who has then they will not understand. In there eyes your wife is a cheater period and you should just move on and accept it. Ask as many questions as you need to try to wrap your head around what is happening. We don't have all the answers but someone on this board usually has some very good advice to share.

For a period of time I suggest you do let your spouse cake eat, they get to see all the changes and improvements you have made. They get to replace all the bad memories with good memories. Yet at some point you do have to decide when the cake eating stops and you have to protect yourself. That is a personal choice and there is no exact time when that should happen. I do not advocate no contact unless you are being hurt either physically, mentally, or verbally by your spouse. If you are no contact then the chances of reconnecting after replay is greatly reduced. That does not mean pine, or wait for your spouse to wake up from the fog either. What most are having such a difficult time at doing is the one thing that bring results. Again, what some of you are holding on to is preventing you and your from moving along the dark tunnel.

We do know when the changes are real or fake. We do sense when you have finally let go of us and don't feel like you need us and will be fine either way. That's why it is preached soooo much on this forum because it is definitely true. Gman, do not underestimate a woman's intuition. She knows you are right where she left you, despite your silence. What else are you doing besides not initiating and staying out of her way?

Denjef31

[Velika]

Denjef, if someone is low contact due to emotional abuse/manipulation/(in my case) pending divorce and pregnant OW, at what point if any would it make sense to re-initiate. On my end I feel I would need to see at least some level of empathy or respect from MLCer.

Do you agree? Also, do you think a MLCer's level of feelings/commitment to OW/OM would be changed by pregnancy? My MLC-H seems to have just substituted his OW in for me.

[Thunder]

You know denjef, I have never liked NC, unless there is abuse.  I feel the same way you do.  I didn't go NC with my H because there was not abuse.
How do you build any kind of connection without some contact?

I lived with my MLCer for almost a year before I moved out, and you're right.  He got a ringside seat to the great changes I was making.
I didn't consider it cake-eating because we were still married and there was no OW on the scene.   But I do think it made a difference.  He never really disconnected completely with me.

You are the FIRST person I have EVER heard say to allow cake-eating (for awhile) and I can not tell you how much I agree with that!

I realize some people have no choice, their MLCer vanishes, but if they haven't why not try it for awhile?
You'll know when to stop. 

[gman242]

denjef31, thank you for articulating a response. I am choosing to let her cake eat for exactly why you said so, but in the back of my head, I've given her 6-8 months. Why? As you and others have mentioned, the infatuation period with OM should be ending (not that I think there is one now), she should be more stabilized and further long along in her pregnancy and more comfortable with where she is in her MLC and I will be too and able to plot my next step at that stage. After packing her stuff up, I took off like a rocket and I think she's trying to hold on but I need to translate that positive action on her part eventually.

We do know when the changes are real or fake. We do sense when you have finally let go of us and don't feel like you need us and will be fine either way. That's why it is preached soooo much on this forum because it is definitely true. Gman, do not underestimate a woman's intuition. She knows you are right where she left you, despite your silence. What else are you doing besides not initiating and staying out of her way?

I'm really glad you posted this as it's something for us all to think about and how much we've really detached. Right now, I've done all I can do, for now. I've changed me, she's suspicious I've been out to see a few people (which I have been, but w/ friends,  but she doesn't need to know), I've been living my life (you should see her jaw drop when she finds out about something I did and she didn't know about it), the house is changed, I've been making improvements..

 But that's about all I can manage right now. I would like to move to a point where I can go out more with people or participate in group activities such as 5ks etc.

I will tell you, in my head, I don't need her, that will become apparent to her if she does not move further along her own curve, if she doesn't realize it already.


Thunder & M3G, i agree about the cake eating as well. I wasn't trying to be rough in my earlier post (please don't take offense M3G), but we talk about rebuilding, connecting etc. and we know there's this gray area that's there, but we hand out black and white advice so often and I was just having trouble getting that out and that's why I wanted to ask Den as it seemed like we were in the same space, at least for a bit.
 

[strength]

I worked on the the relationship for over 2 years and nothing worked.  H did the cake-eating for over 1 year and I have gone back and forth with the NC.  If I don't call, I don't hear from him.  The affair is 2 1/2+ years, and all I get is stress and anxiety when we talk.  I believe at some point the MLC'er has to be the one to work on the relationship, since they have destroyed the M and the family.  Enough is enough at some point. 

[strength]

I have tried over and over again to work on the relationship from the start.  I have gotten no where, but more hurt.  Never once have I heard H say recently that he does not want D.  H never checks on me.  Only time H cared was when I flew home, then H would talk and be nice.  H has never reached out to me.  At what point do LBS say enough?  Some of you feel the NC makes the situation worse and separates the M more.  But, when H is still with OW how does it help to get in the way?  It makes LBS look insecure and unable to move forward.  I have done absolutely everything to work on M with no result.  That is why I am pushing the D.  Obviously, I am not wanted and H has made a choice, even if he is miserable.

[handpuppets]

For a period of time I suggest you do let your spouse cake eat, they get to see all the changes and improvements you have made. They get to replace all the bad memories with good memories. Yet at some point you do have to decide when the cake eating stops and you have to protect yourself. That is a personal choice and there is no exact time when that should happen. I do not advocate no contact unless you are being hurt either physically, mentally, or verbally by your spouse. If you are no contact then the chances of reconnecting after replay is greatly reduced. That does not mean pine, or wait for your spouse to wake up from the fog either. What most are having such a difficult time at doing is the one thing that bring results. Again, what some of you are holding on to is preventing you and your from moving along the dark tunnel.

We do know when the changes are real or fake. We do sense when you have finally let go of us and don't feel like you need us and will be fine either way. That's why it is preached soooo much on this forum because it is definitely true. Gman, do not underestimate a woman's intuition. She knows you are right where she left you, despite your silence. What else are you doing besides not initiating and staying out of her way?

Denjef31

Agree wholeheartedly with the above, especially the bold part.

In my case, I believe Mr. HP knows the changes are real because I've had plenty of opportunity to show him when we've spent time together as a family (which at times can feel like cake-eating).

The biggest struggle for me, at the moment, is completely letting go. I feel like I am very close to that point but feel like hope gets in the way. Not sure if that makes any sense. I do know that I'll be okay either way but I'm still mourning the dream of an intact family unit living under the same roof (FOO issues).

[UKStander]

Fascinating thread. I'm trying to catch up with it all in limited time...  will read more when I can.

But one thing I noticed, and wanted to ask: Denjef, you said something about being back at 20 years of age again....  something like that. I would be interested to know more about this angle of mlc, if you wouldn't mind sharing. What FOO issues were there, how do they resurface, and to what extent does the depth of FOO damage exacerbate the MLC, do you think?

Thank you, and apologies if you have already answered this between page 10 and the last page, which is where I've got to in my reading....

[strength]

Handpuppet I agree with a lot that you have said.  My H has told me I am desperate and no self esteem when I keep reaching out to him.  Why then would I keep doing such a thing.  H destroyed everything, I have done everything possible with no progress.  I will not beg H to be with me.  It only fires up the OW.  H has allowed OW to hurt me by calling, text, pictures, etc and H is ok with that.  I will never allow anyone to walk all over me.  I am a wonderful person and if NC and no cake-eating is wrong then I have wasted a lot of my life.  Any normal human being can take just so much before they push for D.  H's loss and H knows it and so does everyone we know.