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Author Topic: Off-Topic Election thread #3

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Off-Topic Re: Election thread #3
#100: November 18, 2016, 01:36:46 PM
Elray, I just read snopes.com which stated many things. Including the reporter knowing Trump for years and many things you said here. Except the fact this was something that he normally did with everyone. I didn't know Trump does that often. If it's true, then pardon me. I'm not really a Trump fan to know that lol
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Re: Election thread #3
#101: November 18, 2016, 02:39:42 PM
I prefer climate change to global warming. It is a more encompassing term.

Elegance, I think we can debate several issues. Thundar and osb posted articles about the election. It makes sense people wanting to comment on those.

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Re: Election thread #3
#102: November 18, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Anjae, we weren't debating. We were thinking of solutions about what we could to to save the planet earth. People came up with great ideas, do you have any?
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Re: Election thread #3
#103: November 18, 2016, 02:49:33 PM
I do like Phoenix's list -

Global Warming/Climate Change
Racial Equality and Relations
Women's Rights
LGBTQ Rights
Targeting Immigrants and Muslims
Education
The Economy

Increase the attention paid to any one of these issues, and you save planet earth.
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Re: Election thread #3
#104: November 18, 2016, 03:28:12 PM
Elegance, see my post on page 9 of this thread, Reply #82.

I also like Phoenix list.
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Re: Election thread #3
#105: November 18, 2016, 04:02:41 PM
For those not interested, don't read it. But for those who are, this is a powerful post by Rabbi Shai Held a teacher from mechon Hadar in NYC. JTS ordained, but hadar is non denominational--conservadox. He is highly regarded and if there is a struggle ahead he may be the Abraham Joshua Heschel of our time.

I too will not be deterred and I know that goes for others here.
Phoenix


This is from his facebook feed:

Some thoughts, five days later:

1.  Many people have asked me what I think they/we should be doing at this moment.   I would start with this: be very clear about what your red lines are, and about what you are willing to do to uphold them.  And make those commitments public, so that you will be pressured to live up to them.

An example: If Mr. Trump actually pursues children of illegal immigrants with the intention of deporting them (which he has promised to do), I will readily go to jail to fight him, and I hope many students, friends, and colleagues will join me.

If Mr. Trump creates a registry of Muslims, I will register as one, and I hope you will join me.

2.  My watchword for right now is vigilance.  We need to watch what the president-elect does, and know that we may be called to place out bodies on the line to defend civil and human rights.   If your instinctive reply is that you are not an activist, well the time may have come to become one.

But I personally do not think that massive protests right now are the best idea: first, people of good will will exhaust themselves before the most important battles have even begun; and second, they run the risk of alienating people who may otherwise become allies.

3.  I am growing increasingly weary of the "we lost, let's move on" posts that I have seen.  I used to be very skeptical of the language of white privilege, but this seems like an amazing expression of it.   Muslims, who have been threatened with a registry, cannot move on; gays and lesbians who fear having their long-delayed and hard-won rights stripped away from them, cannot move on; people of color, who are understandably terrified of the racial animus Trump has directed at them, cannot move on.   (If you don't know about Trump and the Central Park 5, consider learning about it.)  The list goes on and on; we are not talking about a baseball team here, we are talking about people's safety and well-being.

4.  Posts that say "your side lost; deal with it" willfully ignore what many of Trump's most impassioned critics have been saying all along: This is not about Democrat v. Republican.  It's about decency v. indecency.  I am grateful to the Republican thinkers and leaders who saw that and have not backed down.  (God bless you, David Frum.)

5. Journalists: please please please do your jobs right now.  No more false equivalencies, no cheap normalization.  Document everything he does.  The creep of authoritarianism is a real danger here, and we need you.

Everyone else: if you can afford it, now is the time to pay subscription fees to newspapers that do serious investigative journalism.  We need large and robust newsrooms at precisely the time when they are shrinking.

It is an extremely bad sign that a mere few days after he won the presidency of the United States of America, Donald Trump is still firing off hostile tweets at the New York Times.

6. To people who inhabit the same socioeconomic and cultural universe as I do, yet who voted for Trump:  many of you have put forward a steady stream of indignant posts about how you are not racist, bigoted, homophobic, or misogynistic.  That may well be true, but the fact is that in this election you decided that racism, bigotry, homophobia, and misogyny were not significant enough issues to cause you to vote for someone else.   At the end of the day, although our thoughts and feelings do matter, we will be judged on our actions, and whether or not this was your direct goal, the fact is that you did help place a dangerously bigoted man in the most powerful position in the world.

If you want to take responsibility for the bigotry your candidate has unleashed, you could demand of him that he condemn all assaults on minorities without equivocation.  It seems to me your indignation would be better directed there.

And yes, of course violent attacks on Trump supporters are totally unacceptable and must stop.

7.  There is so much pain in this country, and as I have been saying for many, many months, we have to find a way to separate out economic anxiety from racial hatred.  The first can be dealt with; the second must be condemned and rooted out.  American jobs have been lost (though as Thomas Friedman notes, more to microchips than to Mexicans) and we have immense work to do with and for those feeling left behind by a globalizing economy.  But as far as race goes: A purely white America is gone, and it is never coming back.  Diversity is our reality, and if we rise to the occasion, it can be our strength.

8.  I never thought I'd see the day when Jews on the left would need to remind Jews on the right that antisemitism is a real and present danger.  In the United States, more acts of violence are committed each year by White Supremacists than by Islamist radicals.   Please stare the threat in the face: The president-elect has winked at white nationalists, re-tweeted them, and had one of them run his campaign.   There is no reason at all to think that he has your back.  (And please stop with the nonsense about a Jewish daughter and grandchildren; that was not enough to motivate Trump before, so there's no reason to assume that it will motivate him now.)

9.  Torah tells us to love our neighbors, and the vulnerable immigrants among us (that's what the word ger means in biblical Hebrew).  There is a mandate to love, but there is no mandate to be loved.  Sometimes we have to speak the truth even if it means losing friends and being attacked.  I don't enjoy being assailed (to say the least), but I will not be deterred.  Nor, I trust, will thousands and thousands of my fellow Americans.
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Re: Election thread #3
#106: November 18, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
Neutral article and terrific read for both sides of political spectrum:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

Interesting article, Thundarr.

After some research, I must conclude that the article, although intriguing, is false in many of its ascertains. The Demographic of Trump voters is totally spurious. The real demographic was that Trump supporters were more likely to be older, white, male, wealthier, less educated, than Clinton supporters, although this is a tendency and not an absolute.
You can find the academic results here:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.03787v1.pdf

This is not surprising, and I don't post this as an insult to Trump supporters (there is always a mix in both groups of supporters), but Just to contest the misinformation in the article, which has been typical of recent campaigns in the US, UK and elsewhere.

I don't trust the regular press for my information anymore, not even my old trusted sources.
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 04:44:36 PM by Mermaid »
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Re: Election thread #3
#107: November 18, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
Thank you Phoenix. I am in complete agreement with the author of the post.
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Re: Election thread #3
#108: November 18, 2016, 05:01:24 PM
Yes thanks Phoenix.

Quote
I prefer climate change to global warming. It is a more encompassing term.
  Climate change is a term that GW Bush used--it softens the facts.  The atmosphere is heating up.  Kind of like the oil sands in Alberta which were always called tar sands; 'oil' sounds less heavy and dirty.
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Re: Election thread #3
#109: November 18, 2016, 05:14:28 PM
Let us not forget that the atmosphere is heating up because of man's super consumption of the earth's resources.  We are all responsible and we can all make a difference.  I have always thought that both climate change and global warming do little to spell out this fact. This is not nature that is doing this.  This is man.


Amal Clooney: Donald Trump's policies 'violate human rights laws'
"Amal Clooney has reportedly said some of the US president Donald Trump’s most controversial comments and policy proposals are a violation of international human rights law.

The barrister was speaking at the Texas Women’s conference when she gave her thoughts on Mr Trump’s shock election win.

“[His comments] that there should be a religious test imposed on entering the U.S. or the fact that there should be state-sponsored torture or families of suspected terrorists should all be killed – all of those things are violations of international human rights law and the values that underlie that.

“I think there’s some concern from abroad as to are these things actually going to happen or is the U.S. going to lose some of the moral standing that it has internationally,” she said according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Clooney specialises in human rights law and is currently representing a group of Yazidi women including Nobel peace prize nominee Nadia Murad who were held as sex slaves by Isis.

Amal Clooney asks women to fight for rights of Yazidi community
She welcomed Mr Trump’s commitment to tackling Isis and said she hopes for the best from his presidency.

“The president-elect has said that fighting Isis is actually a priority so it may be that there can be progress and obviously everyone has to respect the outcome of the democratic process her and we have to hope for the best.”

Clooney and her husband George were vocal Hillary Clinton supporters during the election and both publicly denounced Mr Trump’s policy pledges.

Clooney used her keynote speech at the conference to call on women to join the fight for women’s rights in countries where they are most under threat. In September, she told the UN she was “ashamed” to stand before them over their inaction to persecute Isis for their crimes against the Yazidi community.

“The worst thing that we can do as women is not stand up for each other. And this is something that we can practice every day no matter where we are or what we do. Because if we are united, there is no limit to what we can do,” she said."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/amal-clooney-donald-trump-muslim-register-religious-test-torture-policies-human-rights-laws-a7424546.html



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« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 05:17:35 PM by kikki »

 

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