[Anjae]

Newvies are adults, these threads are marked as off topic and have a clear title.

On the Bill issue, he is a serial cheater/philanderer. Not a MLCer or a man who happened to had an affair just once. He is also a man that used his power and position to have sex with an intern while in office. And not only while in office, inside the White House. Lets not compare what is not comparable. And I do think that staying married to a serial cheater and one who abused his power toward an intern reveals a person's character. It is one thing to remain married to a one time, maybe even two times adulterer, another to a man like Bill Clinton, or, for that matter, my FIL who was and still is at nearly 70 a philanderer.

We do not advice people to stay with a serial cheater. I doubt that there is anyone here standing for a serial cheater. 

Hillary is not a victim. Of anything.

Elray, posting links to extreme right wing unreliable sites does not help. The Daily Mail has went so far that many big companies stop advertising there.

Border walls are a terrible idea. Austria is as bad and example and as fascist as Hungary, and a while ago it come close to elect a fascist government. Hitler was Austrian and Austrian never fully lost its sense of Österreich Uber Alles. 

Sweden did not built a wall, so it is not the same thing. On previous threads on this matter I said Sweden had brought its borders back. It is not a wall. There is a bridge that separates Sweden from Denmark (the bridge of the TV series with the same name). Sweden simply has border controls on its side. Every EU country has the right to put its borders back on if deemed necessary. Border and wall are not the same thing. France borders are on since the attacks.

Migrants pouring into Norway from Russia? Unless they are Russian, I don't see how anyone could be wondering around and crossing Russia.

It is not like Russia is going to allow people to cross their country without stop them. Migrants tend to go West, not East. Or to try to pass to Sweden.

Wonder why a country built by emmigrants, America, is, all of a sudden, so upset with emmigrants. I doubt many of those who arrived there in the XIX, or even the XX, century were legal emmigrants. America was built by emmigrants.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Does this ring a bell?

By no streach of the imagination is Trump an open mind man. We know which half is allucinating. Trump appointed a White Supremacist. It is self explanatory. The media exagerate, but Trump's choices and appointments are his and his alone. We can't spend the whole time saying that people need to have personal responsability, then excuse Trump from his responsability.

I truly do not understand how anyone can defend Trump and his choices. Those who voted for Trump voted for anger and hate, which is what Trump represents. How can people think fascism, racist, white supremacy, etc are rignt/good things? I have no idea. Or better, I do. All it takes is to look at 1933. They thought they were going to make Germany great again.

The world consists of many countries and the way many things are interrelated in this global world,it is impossible for any country to exist in a vacuum.

This. Same goes for the UK.

What concerns me deeply is how so many of our Allies view the results of this election....seems that some countries who applaud Trump being the President elect, such as Russia, have not typically been our Allies in the past.

It makes sense that the more autocratic/dictatorial countries will applaud Trump. Soviet Union had a pact with Nazi Germany before Hitler become too greedy and took something Stalind did not like. Birds of a feather fly together.

Russia is no longer, or hadn't be in a while, the Old Bear of Cold War. It wasn't America's best friend, but it had cordial relations with the US.

Thundarr, you got offended when Obama shinned the rainbow lights over the White House? Even Trump said gay marriage will remain. It has passed the Supreme Court, it is law. It is Roe vs Wade that may go back to the States.

No one knows if Russia hacked Hillary's emails. Here is a link that explains the Russian source and why it may not be beliavable http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-cyberwar-commentary-idUSKBN12X075 "Then there’s the role of Guccifer 2.0, the person or persons supplying WikiLeaks and other organizations with many of the pilfered emails. Is this a Russian agent? A free agent? A cybercriminal? A combination, or some other entity? No one knows."

One has to be very, very careful when it comes to digital things. It is very easy to make them seem what they aren't. And this applies to anyone or any country, US inclueded. I can make my IP to be Russian, American, Canadian, etc. It a very easy thing to do. High level hackers of any source can do whatever they want and make it seem it come from whomever they want.

Hillary deleted thousands of emails, so no one knows what was on those ones. 

Still, Hillary has the most votes. In a country of one person, one vote, Hillary would be president.

[stayed]

Good points Xyz and Anjae!  Well explained too. 

As I said before Anjae... we don't know what Hilary did or didn't do, there is no EVIDENCE!  Evidence though, is much harder to destroy then we would think.  The FBI have combed through the Clintons to an extent never before seen.  THEY FOUND NOTHING!  As much as people might like to think she is a crook, there simply is no evidence... Trump and the rest of you can say it as loud as you like, as often as you like... BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE... AND they sure have tried to find it. 

America has a big problem on it's hands.  The 26 percent of Trump voters seem to have decided that that gives them permission to be racist, bigoted, misogynist, xenophobes, sexist, a$$munches!  They seem to think they can now run around treating women, non white men and women, handicapped, people of different faiths, as trash! 

I guess that's just more lies being made up by the media!  Silly me.

[Phoenix]

Another fantastic post, osb.  Herein lies the disconnect for many. In my opinion, Trump is representative of much of his voting base with an arrogance and self aggrandizement that only makes him (us) look stupid to the world. Not enough Americans know how far down the ratings the US is in terms of education, women's leadership, the environment, progressive policies, maternal mortality rates... People are living in a bubble of false superiority and importance that will be our undoing if people don't wake up and understand we are not some magnificent lone wolf in the world. We have much to offer and have been and done some extraordinary things, but we also have our faults, our weaknesses, our areas in which to grow and grow up. And we need our friends and allies around the world, as much as they need us.  You are exactly right Stayed, and others, when you have expressed that it's the very things that Trump represents that many of our ally countries find repugnant and the things that he tends to find repugnant that other countries so admired about America and countries like Russia were so jealous of. That's why they want to see exactly what is happening and we are obliging.

Of course, no American wants our country to backslide, look the stooge, or fail miserably, but  that is the direction Trump is taking us in. For all the rhetoric and posturing, time will tell it's own truth, but I will go on record saying that I believe, when all is said and done, it won't be a presidential term that honors what this country is about and the principles we were built on and espoused. We will not be in a better place economically, educationally, with healthcare, with global relationships, environmentally, in regards to human rights, peace, nuclear disarmament, government effectiveness, national security, gun violence, terrorism, race relations, civility and the general tenor or our nation's people toward one another. If those who believe differently are so confident, then stand in your confidence, but it won't sway a good portion of this country unless there is genuine sustainable proof to the contrary. Until then, we may  have to just agree to disagree. Talk to me in four years about where we are. I will be happy to eat my words if I am wrong. Will you?

Phoenix

[Slow Fade]

The 26 percent of Trump voters seem to have decided that that gives them permission to be racist, bigoted, misogynist, xenophobes, sexist, a$$munches!  They seem to think they can now run around treating women, non white men and women, handicapped, people of different faiths, as trash! 

Wow. 100% of the 26% of Trump voters are all racist, bigoted, a$$munches? Do you have proof or are you just generalizing because of how they voted? Quite a broad brush to be painting people with.......

we don't know what Hilary did or didn't do, there is no EVIDENCE!

Maybe, maybe not, but people have watched her in action in the political arena and found her actions and attitude to be deplorable. In the same way that people have watched Trump and found HIS actions and attitude to be deplorable. One side is not going to convince the other so I would suggest that we put our differences aside and work together for the sake of everyone. Wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't going to solve anything and neither is tearing people down who don't believe like you do. Debate vigorously of course, but don't divide over this issue.

[OldPilot]

Trying to lighten the conversation here a little bit
watch this video from Jimmy Kimmel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biwm9hG_-nc

Its a good laugh at least.

[Thundarr]

Quote Stayed:

Thundarr, seriously, go back to your dating thread!  However will you keep track of how many HITS you get on your valuable comments if you are not on your own thread.  For the record, you are obviously very far off the radar screen, as most people could care less about whether a person is gay, black, brown, muslim, Chinese whatever... WE are all PEOPLE!  With as much right to love who we love, as you do. 

Attempting to bully your detractors and telling them to leave?  Condescending, criticizing without merit, having an elitist attitude?  Thank you, Stayed, for proving once again that you are the most Trump-like poster on the board.  Kettle calling the pot black?  Indeed.  Did he steal your schtick and that's why you don't like him?

[Thunder]

Sorry Angae, I have great respect for your opinion, but that's all it is...your opinion.  There is no proof that Bill had affairs.  Only Monica Lewinski, which was not an affair, just a very, very stupid move on Bill's part.  Very stupid.

It's their word against his.  Anyone can accuse anyone of anything, which is scary.  Just like there is no proof Trump's accusers are telling the truth either. Aren't people innocent until proven guilty?   

These allegations only came forward when Bill was being impeached by the Republican party, just as Trumps accusers only came forward when he was running for president.  Where were they all when they claimed it happened?  Why no law suits?  Why no outrage then?

None of us knows the truth about either of them.
I'd rather go by the facts.

I've read too many stories about kids accusing their father of sexual abuse and completely ruining his life, to later find out the kids where mistaken or confused.

As far as Hillary goes, I'm sure her H suffered for what he did in the Oval office...big time, but she chose to forgive him and they ended up having a marriage that survived.  They are still together and their family is still in tact.  He is by her side and he is by hers.
Chelsey's parent's did not divorce and now have grandparents to her kids who are still together.

Their still a family unit.  I applaud all of them.  Of course that's just my opinion.

[Anjae]

It is true that so far the FBI found nothing on Clinton's server/emails. But it is also true she deleted thousands of emails and we do not know what other technical performances were done by her staff on her server, hardrives, etc. A good techie can do miracles and no one, not the FIB, not the Mossad, not the Russians would find a trace of.

The fact that thousands of emails were deleted raises suspicion. There may had been nothing in them, or there may had been. Lack of proof does not mean something did not happenened/a crime was not commited, merely that is not possible to prove it.

I am not saying there is something criminal on Clinton's deleted emails, just that we do not know one way or the other. But the suspicion is there. If in any election the suspicion was bad, on an election like this one it was poison.

The FBI director should not, in my opinion, have said anything about Clinton in regard to Weiner emails one week prior to the election unless the FBI had found proof of criminal doing. I would think the same if it was Trump. That was trying to influnce an election, something the FBF director should abstain from. In my opinion, he should had been fired.

Trying to lighten the conversation here a little bit
watch this video from Jimmy Kimmel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biwm9hG_-nc

Its a good laugh at least.

  That was a laugh. But there will be no White House anymore. It will be a Gold House, a very golden one. 


On a serious tone, this is actually quite a sensible interview https://youtu.be/zlmuKtyhDKg Bernie Sanders on how Donald Trump won presidency .


Thunder, I am not the only one who mentioned Bill's affairs. Go back to the previous threads, more people mention them, including Americans.

What there is no proof of is of any of the allegations of sexual misconduct/rape. Like there isns't with Trump. Affairs and sexual miscounduct/rape are different things.

Yes, the marriage survived, but for me the only reason was that the two of them like power and money too much to divorce. There are many couples like them. I do not see love or happiness in their marriage, just interest. Divorced, Hilalry would not have a chance of running for president of the US.

The idea that staying married is always good or the best option, or done out of love is not correct. Sometimes it is better to divorce. Of course Bill and Hillary are free to decide what is best for them in any instance. Same for Donald and Melania.

Where were they all when they claimed it happened?  Why no law suits?  Why no outrage then?

I don't know why no outrage then. The why no law suits is easy, powerful man can arrange so that things do not to go to court. And this goes for Bill, Trump or any other man. I am not saying it is what happened, just that it is very easy to avoid a lawsuit when one is President and/or rich/powerful.

One cannot think it is all a lie if connected to Bill and all true if connected to Trump. That would be two measures. I find them both equally capable of cheating and even of going a little further. But I cannot say one or the other have sexually assaulted anyone because there is no proof. 
 

[osb]

I really don't mean to pile on, but need to mention that to complain the problem with Obama's gay marriage legislation is just that it trampled states' rights is a bit problematic. Because that was the same excuse used in the 60's to protest desegregation. Sounds rather like dog whistle politics... "I'm not discriminating against gay (black) people, I just want my state to have the right (to so discriminate for me)". Not cool.

There are a number of LGBT posters on this board (as well as posters of every skin colour and ethnicity). It would be ludicrous to try to detect any difference between their commitment to their partners, and my commitment to mine (or you to yours). As ludicrous as to say a woman who chooses to cover her head has a lesser voice than one whose head is bare (taking an example from this election, not at random). Let's be a little more understanding of our collective humanity, and agree on one thing: there is no human being who is not deserving of equal rights.

[Thunder]

Thundarr-"On Obama, those of us who identify as being on the Christian Right have been not only marginalized over the past 8 years but completely been given the middle finger.  This was never more apparent than when Obama had the audacity to shine the rainbow lights on the White House and other national monuments the day the activist SCOTUS decided to rewrite the Constitution rather than interpret it as they are supposed to. "

Wow Thundarr, I was never so proud of our President, or our country, when he lite the rainbow lights on the WH!!
How do you feel he rewrote the constitution by doing this???

What part of the Constitution?  Please tell me.
That we are all equal in the eyes of the law?  We, no matter our color or sexual orientation have the right to happiness?  Was that just meant for white, straight people?

Just wow.