[stayed]

Wow, that is such a typical MLC trick OP.   Sorry, once upon a long time ago, I would have fallen for that old bull$hit twist the situation around to be somehow me.  What did we call that... PROJECTING... no, no, wait, I think that was "gas lighting" yea, that's it.
Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perception, and sanity. Nope, fell for that with my husband, won't be going down that road again. 

Sorry RCR but unlike you, I do think this is personal.  I do think the person you vote for, does tell us about who a person really is.  Perhaps something has gone wrong, perhaps a crisis is coming... I don't know.  The OP I knew, I depended on, would NEVER have placed his confidence in such a person as Trump. 

I've looked in the mirror and I would not be able to look at myself,  if I did not say what I truly believe.  Yes, I do believe that to be able to vote for such a person as Trump, one absolutely has to be a bigot in every way.  Yes, Finding Hope, all 26% of them.

[elray]

Getting might heated, stayed. 

Perhaps while in the bathroom you might want to consider a cold shower... remember that thread several years back?

Love yah, no matter how deplorable you find me.

[bookwrmmom]

I just don't even really have words right now for how appalled I am at the opinionated, holier than thou attitudes I have read here. There is not a single thing anyone can say that will get through to closed minds, so I guess it is not worth the effort.
So my advice to my friends who have been accused of being "ignorant, racist, misogynist, homophobic, deplorable (and more)" is keep being you. I am pretty sure that all the people that know me or come in to contact with me every day in my human services job will disagree with your assessment/assassination of my character. Especially since my job deals with the most economically challenged citizens. My black friends, gay friends, and Muslim friends will prob likely never agree with them either. I gonna just keep on being the loving, kind person I am.

[Mermaid]

I'm amazed at this thread. I'm going to stick my oar right in now.

The biggest single threat to the world from Trump comes from his attitude to climate change. I know that many Americans don't want to believe in this, but climate change has been more than proved by scientists (and it doesn't matter a jot if you find one or two who dispute it). The anti climate change lobby has been funded by oil companies and big business.

Trump has announced that he is planning to quit the Paris Climate Deal and he has hired a climate change denier to oversee the transition of the Environmental Protection Agency. Wise academic and global monitor, Chomsky, has declared this aspect of Trump the biggest single threat to humanity.

Everything else that Trump said was awful, racist, misogynistic, sexist, bigotted, ignorant, and not even consistent. As awful as that is, people believe that he will bring growth and prosperity. I understand why people can ignore this, to an extent, even if they don't agree. Obama, despite his charm and wit, failed to bring prosperity to the majority of people. Unemployment is still high, and median incomes have fallen significantly. Fear of extremists is also high. There is a sense that the left (comparatively, neither main party in the US is truly left) has failed people; Obamacare is flawed, violence is high, and inequalities remain. The GDP growth favoured the rich, not the average family. Actually, I doubt that Trump will change this; his stated policies (as few and as contradictory as they were) included lowering taxes for the rich, believing that this would "trickle down" to the poor (an outdated economic theory which has proven to have no substance). His other ideas, to halt imports, crack down in immigration and build a wall, will do nothing to increase wealth, and will increase costs while reducing income. In short, he's a brainless nutter. Even if Clinton were guilty of half they claimed, she at least had a coherent plan.

But NONE OF THIS WILL MATTER SO MUCH AS CLIMATE CHANGE!

Whatever else you do, whether you hate Trump or love him, please pressure him to uphold the Paris agreements.

[Thunder]

I totally agree, Mermaid.

It is so apparent when you look at our weather here in Minnesota.  We usually get our first hard freeze by Oct. 11th.
It's now Nov. 17th and the flowers are still blooming, no freeze.  It was almost 60 degrees this whole week, normal temps for this time of year should be in the 30's.

I remember walking my kids out for Halloween with a foot of snow on the ground.  We have not had one flake yet.
Our weather has definately changed over the years.

[GBM]

Hello everyone,
I am reluctant to post, because I don’t participate on the forum anymore, but here I am anyway.  It is disheartening to see how divided we are.  A house divided cannot stand.  I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said this, referring to the USA.  I apply this to all citizens of the world.  We are all important, and we all need each other.
 
I have survived the chaos, and devastation that MLC brought into my life.  The wounds that I’ve suffered have long since passed, but some scars remain.  My heart goes out to all who are suffering in the midst of  MLC destruction.  I know how it feels to have someone tell you “its going to be ok”, when you are in such pain and confusion.  Sometimes it feels hollow, and dismissive, and that those who say those words don’t understand what you are going through.

 Many people now are hurt, and are offended at those words “it’s going to be ok”.  I hope that we can all try to understand how this election is affecting people who either see something in a different way, or have experienced something that you haven’t, and try to understand the pain and fear they are experiencing.

I am trying to imagine being at the beginning of the MLC madness, or even in the middle, while also dealing with the upset in our country.  Please remember that you are not alone, and that even those who feel the weakest survive this, and come out ahead.  I will never forget what this did to me, it would be impossible, and I don’t want to forget the many lessons I learned.  Still, it has to mean something valuable, that even the memories no longer produce tears.  I am OK.  For those who are feeling weakened, we/YOU are stronger than you think you are.

This election has upset me greatly, and I am struggling to come to terms with it all.  I can only express my gratitude to Phoenix, OSB,  Anjae, Thunder,  and many others for so eloquently articulating the many issues we are concerned with.  I was nodding along, sometimes with tears in my eyes. 

I have, and am continuing to try to understand the Trump supporters’ point of view.  I think more than anything else I have ever experienced, this is testing our abilities to listen to one another.  I don’t believe the vast majority voted with malice or neglect, but it’s irresponsible to ignore that some people did.   For me, and actually many others, I picked up on something that was impossible to ignore, regardless of any political agenda.  His narcissistic traits are too frightening to ignore, or excuse away.  I suffered too much at the hands of a narcissist to not be fully aware of what they are capable of. 

Be strong everyone.
Hugs

[Thundarr]

I have read many times were Liberals have been referred to as "tall children" due to their penchant for labeling, blaming and demonizing those who disagree with them.  I will, however, refrain from labeling the people (and many friends here) and instead choose to label the behaviors of calling Conservatives/ Trump supporters "racist,""bigot,""homophobe" (a blatant and intentional misnomer, btw" and "xenophobes" as condescending, dismissive and yes above all childish.  Choosing to name-call those who disagree with you ends any intellectual discourse and really is the grown-up equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, "La-la-la-la-la I can't hear you la-la-la."  It is the refuge of those who are unable to provide substance to their argument and are capable only of believing things are what they are because they want them to be that way.  I handle such tactics the same way I handled the one or two times one of my kids threw a fit in a store after I explained why they couldn't get something they wanted.  I chose to be the adult and used planned ignoring to instill in them the fact that sometimes you have to accept things even when you don't want them to be that way.  The irony of these childish behaviors is that the belief "I'm right and the only way someone wouldn't agree with me is because of a character flaw or defect in them" and the even more ironic statement "I'm open-minded and anyone who doesn't see things the same way I do is close-minded."  Childish, juvenile and unfit for intellectual discourse.  Sound familiar?

They Gay Movement tends to believe they got what they wanted when the SCOTUS chose to circumvent the will of the states and vastly over-step their intended purpose in re-defining marriage.  They did not.  What they got was a by-product of a much larger, insidious and covert movement that needed the power taken away from the states in order to achieve their own ends.  Millenials were easy fodder to rally and promote the message that anyone who opposed their decision was "homophobic" (again, a misnomer used to dismiss arguments against) and the SCOTUS followed the lead of Obama in dismantling one of the core pillars of our government under the Trojan Horse of "equality."  What SCOTUS in fact did was to create a slippery slope in which any interested party could now wager a case for legalizing whatever it is they wanted and these parties were funded in whole or in part by many powerful billionaires who operate behind the curtain of money and power.  First off, let me say that I have NO objection to gays or any prejudice toward homosexual relationships as I have family, friends, co-workers and clients who are gay.  My religious beliefs state that sexual relations between two people of the same sex is a sin, but I also believe that extramarital sex between a male and female is an equal sin and as most of you know I have been guilty of that.  Homosexuality IS NOT related to bestiality, incest, pedophilia or polygamy (well, a bit to polygamy I guess) but what the SCOTUS decision did was to create an environment in which people have already attempted to protest for the right to marry based on the language of "two willing adults."  What we've seen in some European countries is that incestuous marriages between siblings and even between parents and children have been legalized due to re-defining marriage and in many other countries polygamy and even pedophilic and bestialic relationships are legal and condoned.  If we are naïve enough to believe this couldn't happen here then we need look no further than the movements in those countries who said the same thing.....until it did.  SCOTUS eliminated the rights of the states to define and limit what "marriage" is and in doing so laid the groundwork for many terrible things to happen with just the minor changing of a few words.  I hope and pray the decision is overturned and given back tot the states, and I'm aware it may affect some very good people in negative ways but the cost of keeping things as they are is too great.  We've all heard about the illicit behaviors of Epstein, David Geffen, Soros and other billionaires who are attempting to create a New World Order in which they are able to engage in whatever inhuman acts they do without fear of prosecution and this may one day be our reality.

As for the election discussion, that whole point is now moot.  The Liberal agenda has been vanquished as the people have spoken and given the Republicans a mandate to undo most of the past 8 years and even some of the 16 before that.  We've suffered as a country for long enough and the common man and woman has found their voice.  To label Trump supporters as bigots, racists or sexist is incredibly short-sighted and ignores the fact that Trump received votes from ALL demographics.  He received more Black, Muslim and Hispanic votes than Romney did and 42% of women voted for him.  The Democratic party is in shambles and suffered a crushing defeat that is the result of the Old Guard refusing to listen to the people and continue to believe that things are actually working.  Hillary was the hand-picked candidate from the very beginning because they thought she possessed the one trait that would automatically ensure another Democratic White House - having a V@g!n@.  Unfortunately for them, Bernie actually took advantage of the Entitlement Generation in ways no one thought possible for an old man and brought attention to the fact that the Democratic party was way out of sync with how things really are.  I have no doubt that in four years the Democratic party will try to parade Michelle Obama, who has the electable traits of being Black and having a V@g!n@, or Elizabeth Warren, who has the electable traits of having a V@g!n@ and successfully misleading the American people for the last 30 years into somehow believing she was Native American and they will trumpet them as 'the first woman president" and talk about how they are so "progressive."  Funny thing is that that self-same ones who are now crying because we don't have a woman in the White House were the same ones who 8 years ago did everything the possibly could to keep Sarah Palin OUT of the White House.  Feminism only works with Liberal women, I guess.  I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that the Democratic party can rebuild as I think having two viable candidates would be amazing.  I would have honestly considered voting for Biden over Trump, and the retired Colonel who ran against Hillary and Bernie was a strong favorite of mine even though I realized he didn't have a chance against the Feminist and Millenial machines.  Hopefully the Old Guard of Reid, Pelosi and others will fade away with the term limits Trump is proposing (thank God, and I also apply this to McConnell as well btw) and a comfortable middle can be established wherein the Democratic party returns to the values of the past that produced some excellent candidates.  Not holding my breath, though.

Peace to you all.

[Thundarr]

Hello everyone,
I am reluctant to post, because I don’t participate on the forum anymore, but here I am anyway.  It is disheartening to see how divided we are.  A house divided cannot stand.  I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said this, referring to the USA.  I apply this to all citizens of the world.  We are all important, and we all need each other.
 
I have survived the chaos, and devastation that MLC brought into my life.  The wounds that I’ve suffered have long since passed, but some scars remain.  My heart goes out to all who are suffering in the midst of  MLC destruction.  I know how it feels to have someone tell you “its going to be ok”, when you are in such pain and confusion.  Sometimes it feels hollow, and dismissive, and that those who say those words don’t understand what you are going through.

 Many people now are hurt, and are offended at those words “it’s going to be ok”.  I hope that we can all try to understand how this election is affecting people who either see something in a different way, or have experienced something that you haven’t, and try to understand the pain and fear they are experiencing.

I am trying to imagine being at the beginning of the MLC madness, or even in the middle, while also dealing with the upset in our country.  Please remember that you are not alone, and that even those who feel the weakest survive this, and come out ahead.  I will never forget what this did to me, it would be impossible, and I don’t want to forget the many lessons I learned.  Still, it has to mean something valuable, that even the memories no longer produce tears.  I am OK.  For those who are feeling weakened, we/YOU are stronger than you think you are.

This election has upset me greatly, and I am struggling to come to terms with it all.  I can only express my gratitude to Phoenix, OSB,  Anjae, Thunder,  and many others for so eloquently articulating the many issues we are concerned with.  I was nodding along, sometimes with tears in my eyes. 

I have, and am continuing to try to understand the Trump supporters’ point of view.  I think more than anything else I have ever experienced, this is testing our abilities to listen to one another.  I don’t believe the vast majority voted with malice or neglect, but it’s irresponsible to ignore that some people did.   For me, and actually many others, I picked up on something that was impossible to ignore, regardless of any political agenda.  His narcissistic traits are too frightening to ignore, or excuse away.  I suffered too much at the hands of a narcissist to not be fully aware of what they are capable of. 

Be strong everyone.
Hugs

Well said, GBM, but I also want to add that every president we've had has been flawed in some ways.  Also, having a trained eye, I would also argue that every president in recent memory has also been a narcissist.  I almost think one has to be in order to aspire to taking on such a responsibility and to weather the storm in the face of half the country not liking or agreeing with you.  Trump isn't a trained politician and over the 30 years he was a public figure he didn't make much of an effort to hide this fact about himself as an aspiring politician would have, but I also have faith that the system of checks and balances in the country will limit any damage.  I also think the experience of the campaign as well as his focus on what went wrong the past 8 years has changed him as a person.  If you look at his track record of having the most female executives of any corporation the size of his I would say that sexism hasn't been a word used to describe him much over the years.  I would also like to point out something that no one else has for some reason and that is the fact that he entrusted his campaign to a woman, thereby making her the FIRST woman to ever run a successful presidential campaign.  Take that for what you will but she certainly doesn't seem like any glass ceiling has been put in place by her boss as I hear she has also been offered a cabinet position. 

I'm so happy to read that you're trying to understand and I think we need more of this.  We not only should start coming together as a country and wishing him success, we HAVE TO.  Wishing he fails is treason.  I don't like Obama's policies or tactics but I always hoped he would turn things around for the better.  Unfortunately, his pettiness and narrow-mindedness proved to be his downfall as catering to the special interest groups only served to hurt the entire country and ultimately his own party.  Hopefully Trump learns form his mistakes as well as those of Bush and Bill Clinton along with all those who came before him.  We've given the guy the keys to the airplane, now let's pray he does an awesome job of flying it or we will all end up as statistics.

[calamity]

This election has upset me greatly, and I am struggling to come to terms with it all.  I can only express my gratitude to Phoenix, OSB,  Anjae, Thunder,  and many others for so eloquently articulating the many issues we are concerned with.

Me too.  Thank you.  And Mermaid for mentioning the elephant in the room:  global warming.

[Mermaid]

This election has upset me greatly, and I am struggling to come to terms with it all.  I can only express my gratitude to Phoenix, OSB,  Anjae, Thunder,  and many others for so eloquently articulating the many issues we are concerned with.

Me too.  Thank you.  And Mermaid for mentioning the elephant in the room:  global warming.

Thank you everyone, and you too Thundarr. I don't need to agree with your politics to understand some of the issues. Yup, name calling is not useful, and both sides in the last election resorted to this.

The thing is, presidents should be chosen because of what they promise/ represent. Gender, skin colour and religion should not be an issue. However, in a country which is often divided on these very issues, it has become one.

But I will say this again and again. The major issue here which will affect the world, now and future, is GLOBAL WARMING! Please petition your representatives to get this addressed, now matter what else you believe