[Absolutely Fabulous]

As always Velika, well said.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I have stated that this thread was for those who wanted to post without being lectured, attacked, and I should have added admonished for their stance.

I have noticed that people who have been standing for a number of years, seem to have a problem with those of us who have chosen NC. I have seen many defend the "Paving the Way" stance.

Here is my take on PTW within my own situation. I regret that I even tried. Not only did it make my situation worse, but it caused my children to be caught up in a crossfire of the XH's making that has fundamentally changed them.

- We lost our home, and our dog.

- I was financially ruined, something that I'm just now starting to recover slowly from.

- One of XH sisters' testified against me during the custody hearing: alleging that I abused my kids.

- I had to quit my job shortly before the divorce to move in with my folks, at which he promptly deposited $600 for 2 months straight after the judge granted me the psychological evaluations ( for him and myself ) I requested. Just so I couldn't pay for them. And they were never done.
 
- My girls therapist didn't believe them at about their dad at first and pressured them to maintain contact; until he found out about their dad not telling them that he was living with AD until they got to their apartment during visitation.

- We have moved 3x's since the divorce and will be moving again the summer.

- XH refuses to comply with the divorce decree, and custody arrangement. I'm NC, he's not. ( divorce is only a piece of paper ).

- I've lost friends over his "smear campaign" because they don't want to get involved.
 
- The kids had to deal with him posting the OW/AD on facebook so that they and all of their friends found about about her at the same time.

- We have had to watch my OD self destruct, and continue on that path.

- I've dealt with monstering from XH and OD until I went NC with him and D&D with her.

- My younger girls don't want him to come back, and don't want me to reconcile either. That's saying something.

And those are just the highlights.

Most of this was while PTW. So, NC was also for my kids protection as well. So, the articles although well thought out and researched have missed something vital: not everyone is willing continue on with this type situation based on their own needs at the time.

There comes a time with NC is a good thing, and may be the only thing that brings healing. It's a way for those of us who are no longer clinging to the past to move on in a healthy way. It's not for everyone, but for those of us who chose it: it works. No matter what the outcome. Let those who have their MLCers' back tell the rest of us what they think. If yours hasn't come back, then it's all speculation at best. Delusional at worst. 

For those of you who want an alternate article to have another take on NC follow the link.  link.https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-midlife-spouse-let-them-go/

RCR has done a great job with her research and articles, but, as I tell my kids: There's always a 3rd option. In other words there are other voices, thought and research on the subject. Take a look if you're so inclined.

[Slow Fade]

At the risk of getting scolded by My3girls for daring to post on this thread, I think being reminded of the articles is a good thing. Even though they may have been read at one point, as you move through this process different things stand out or become more relevant. Its always good to go back and review information.

As for NC, I never went NC with my H but then again I never initiated contact either. (and we aren't talking about abusive, dangerous spouses here) I think responding to contact is vital to reconciliation if that is a possibility in the future. I was distant but if he called or texted I responded on my own schedule. I never left him out in the dark even if he was being monster. If he was monster, I called him on it and politely told him he could talk to me when he could do so in a respectful, decent manner and I then ended our call/text or whatever.

I think a lot of people are getting hope confused with expectations. It is entirely possible and effective to have hope without expectations. That is what we call detachment. It works, its healing, but it does leave the door open without obliterating our hearts when they run back into the tunnel. Live like they aren't coming back for yourself, but that doesn't mean you have to jettison hope at the same time.

M3girls you have a right to a discussion thread, however you do not have to be so "monster" to the people who have a difference of opinion and choose to discuss it here. The way you choose to speak to the people you disagree with is rude and condescending and not in the spirit of Hero's Spouse..........

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Slow fade, Monstering, really? I think that when people tell the truth without sugar coating it, they get a lot of flack as well. I also believe there is a fine line between Paving the Way and Co dependent behavior.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

This is reason for this thread. For some reason on this forum, there are many people who don't like certain styles of the people posting: GET OVER IT. This is a discussion, and as long as the rules aren't being broken then the threads should continue with the topics at hand.

The need for voices of descent is valued, but not to point where the topics ( all that we are discussing on this thread ) get lost because a few people want to get pick apart one particular sticking point. Too many times people have been scared off of threads because someone's feeling got hurt, and they wanted the world to know it. That takes away from others who may need to vent, or otherwise express themselves on the one place that they can. HERE! You're feelings are no more important than anyone else's and it's high time someone pointed that out.

No one on the outside knows what we are all going through, and for once we should be able to have a thread where the PTW people read and see where we are coming from. But that doesn't happen here. Why? Because PTW's feel threatened by those of us saying that it might not work in all cases: especially theirs. I said it. 

If this hurts your sensibilities then be honest enough to say so without hiding behind articles and "other peoples'" feelings. Speak for yourselves and stop trying to speak for others who may or may not agree with you. I speak for myself and will not make any apologies for doing so. I've come a long way, and being PC on this thread is no longer an option for me. I stay within the parameters of the forum and will continue to do so. I'm not running an adult day care, those days are over. My parents were good enough to teach me that not everyone is going to agree with, like or even care about what you say or think. Maybe that's a lesson that should be considered today.
At least I'm willing to engage, and others want to be able to say what's on their minds as well. Condescending? Depends on who you talk to.

[Velika]

M3G, I agree with you.

I think the healthiest place anyone can get to is to not want to be with someone who doesn't love, value, respect, or want you.

Many of us find bomb drop confusing because we had believed that many of these things were true. It is possible and even likely in some cases this was true and there is a biophysical/neurobiological reason for this apparently sudden change (whether temporary or permanent), but it is also possible that our spouse has a longstanding personality disorder or underlying condition we were unaware of or were vaguely aware of but didn't understand.

My feeling is now, once bomb drop hits -- it is up to our spouse to demonstrate that they really were the person we had believed. If they cannot do this, we must accept that they either have tragically changed and won't accept help (or cannot be helped), or that we did not have the ability to see/understand clues that they weren't the person we wanted them to be or believed them to be -- and after we have gone through the grief process get to a point where we simply energetically, authentically don't accept this, not in anger or protest but because something has changed in us where we cannot accept a person who cannot be loving or respectful to us.

I think No/Low contact is a way to get to this point. I feel like M3G -- that what my husband did was a betrayal and a violation, but I betrayed and violated myself even more by asking someone who was being so disrespectful to stay with me.

I notice again and again in comments by people who have moved on, that they are in relationships now that they never had before, with a kind of deep love and solid feeling that is the best they have known. I feel this is no accident. I believe what many of these people write, that you want to get to a place where you love yourself in a way that you will only accept someone who loves you and themselves the same way.

Ideally, for your MLC spouse's own growth, Low/No Contact is also -- energetically -- a barrier that will help them grow as well. If they lose something they later realize was valuable through their own behavior, this is a chance for them to truly develop as a person.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Thanks Velika. 

This the last thing that I'm going to say on this bend in the road. I, nor is anyone else, responsible for others perceptions of anything they read. We post you decide how you're going to take it. None of us is responsible for anyone else's feelings, thoughts or way of handling what you decide ( and it is your choice ) to continue reading.

[calamity]

Besides your line of reasoning ( and stance ) is based on your own personal decision to not go NC. We can decide for ourselves what we are going to do, we ( those that have made this decision ) really don't need others to remind us of their personal decisions not to NC, there are enough threads for that stance already. That debate is tired and old, and enough threads have been hijacked with this issue.

Me?  I have no contact with my x.  We had lots of contact at first then after a year, I began to avoid him and from there we gradually ceased contact.  I was not detached enough to handle seeing him or talking to him;  it took me a week to recover each time so...  In retrospect this might have been a mistake because he was definitely a clinger.

I think the terms 'dim', 'dark', 'no contact' and 'paving the way' are getting confused; I posted the links for clarification.

BTW, we always recommend that the lbs protects his/herself financially.  No matter what.

[Watcher]

Velika, as usual, you have delivered a well thought out post. I, too, had way too much interaction for 16 months. How many times did I have to beat my head against a brick wall ? I have a low energy wallower that is full on monster thoughout the mlc. I admit, a lot of the monster was from my doing. It has been really quiet for the both of us for 2 months now with NC.

I am NC , like I said, but I also realize that I am going to have to be receptive at some point but I will not accept her current behavior. I read RCR all the time. There is nothing wrong with learning. In my situation this whole MLC has read like a textbook. It's been pretty point on.

At this moment, NC is needed for me. Without it I would not be able to run a house nor take care of my 2 kids. The mlc er has the house and the kids in my situation. That's my doing. I am at my best mentally at this moment.

I believe that I am paving the way, even in NC. I haven't turned away from her or my kids. I just recognize, for everyones sake, especially my boys, that mom and dad just cannot be around each other at this moment.

It's sounds crazy, but I do want a future with this woman. However, I can't allow her to keep knocking the crap out of me. There is a fine line between both philosophies. It simply does not have to be one or the other in all cases. It's all about survival, plain and simple. I choose to survive and am very appreciate to all the help that I can get from all sides.

THANKS

[Slow Fade]

I believe that I am paving the way, even in NC. I haven't turned away from her or my kids. I just recognize, for everyones sake, especially my boys, that mom and dad just cannot be around each other at this moment.

It's sounds crazy, but I do want a future with this woman. However, I can't allow her to keep knocking the crap out of me. There is a fine line between both philosophies. It simply does not have to be one or the other in all cases. It's all about survival, plain and simple. I choose to survive and am very appreciate to all the help that I can get from all sides.

This is exactly right Watcher......