[MoreWillBeRevealed]

M3G, I will send you a pm. Strongcurrent, you will know when you are ready to date or take friendships further. I think it is important to be able to say, "I am done with my MLCer entirely," first and foremost. I became done early on--3 months post BD because I lived in MLC hell with H for 18 months prior. I fantasized leaving HIM but was committed to making it work. A platonic male friend and I just evolved from friendship (texts mostly but also spent time together) to a physical relationship. I don't consider him a boyfriend and am clear I do not want a relationship. I had to express my interest in him first. He is younger and I think was intimidated by me so I doubt he would have ever started that discussion. If you can imagine dating, kissing, etc. any of these men, then you will likely need to be the one who starts the discussion. Some may be interested in taking the friendship further, others may not. Don't take it personal if they don't. It's not you. Rejection is God's protection. I am sure there are men who are happy to see you are single. You'd be surprised.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Newbies, read at your own risk.

This thread is for those that have been at this for a while, and will soon be or have been divorced. This is for anyone that has to go D&D or NC for your own personal sanity, safety, or just because you want to. To be able to have a real discussion without being lectured or attacked for your D&D or NC stance. I know the usual suspects will not be able to resist having their say, but this is going to be kept on topic. Despite some of their best efforts. Threads have topics for a reason: because people want to do discuss a particular topic. If this steps on your toes...

I personally can't deal with fresh newbies asking the same questions over and over again, any longer. This forum has so many good threads that answer most, if not all of their questions. And, does a great job as well. I don't want to have to relive any of the past through them any longer. That's all behind me now. But, I digress.. The purpose of this thread is to see how things are going for those who are beyond the "why?" question, and have moved on to GAL. How are you coping, doing, making out, whatever... Especially if you're D&D or NC.

I personally am enjoying being single, for the time being. The XH started this in 2008 and went full MLC in 2014. I had been bombed dropped 3x's before I had had enough, and gave him the divorce he so desperately wanted. We finalized it November 2015.

Now he has told the kids that he's moving back to our state ( just check out my main thread for all the gory details ) in a few months. And, wants to have the kids over the weekends. Of course he hasn't said a word to me. Asked the kids to ask me if it was going to be alright with me.  Typical. This is out of the blue and very sudden. Not sure what caused this turn of events. Not even sure if the OW/AD is moving with him. At any rate, he will be a little less than 2 hrs away, instead of living on an island. I'm sure this is yet another EA.

Truthfully I was enjoying the space, peace, and distance. This is going to complicate things a little, since the girls and I are planning on moving to TX after MD graduates. So this may be a ploy to keep us trapped in the state. All else has failed, so I guess this is his last attempt to force me to "stay on the shelf", and weigh anchor again. Not happening.

My kids are detached for the most part as well. In other words, if he wants contact, he has to contact them. They're tired of game playing, and can recognize when he's trying to be manipulative as well. They've become very savvy lately. We have settled into a life that so far, he hasn't really been a part of. We're just doing what we have to do to move beyond this mess, and it's been a good thing that he was so far away. The kids aren't fazed at this new turn of events. They've learned to go with the flow, just like mom.

Since he's coming back the kids now have a new motivation to get their personal businesses going. They really want to get out of this state. They liked him being so far away. He hasn't exactly been there. They're D&D, I'm NC.

How are some of you that have taken the same route doing? I know that at this point my kids don't even want me and the XH to reconcile. Yes he's done that much damage. Anyone else finding healing by being able to focus on yourself and/or your kids if you have them?

How is rebuilding your life coming along? How are you feeling these days? Are you considering dating or have you decided to be single for a while? Are you still hoping to reconcile? Have your kids started to get to a place where they are feeling more confident and healthier?

Where are you at this point of your journey?

Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Calamity,

Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent? There are different types of abuse: violence is only one of them. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the other ones before speaking out about why the rest of us shouldn't remain NC. Here's a link take a look and then get back to us. http://www.lifeskillsintl.org/Signs_of_abuse.html According to Dr. Paul Hegstrom there are 21 different types of abuse. So, maybe those of us here are tired of dealing with the other forms. Toxic behavior is still toxic, we don't have to be hit to be hurt.

It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway. That bothers you . This constant need to remind other adults about articles that we have read, and decided to make our own decisions about; is clearly a matter of your discomfort with our choice. If you don't like what we post: stay off the thread. Period. Enough already, it's clear that you don't agree. So this is obviously a case of us agreeing to disagree. Period.

We have made this decision and can live with it. You don't agree, but that's not our problem. It's yours and the others that agree with you. This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about. I know that you've read enough of my posts to know that I pull no punches.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

M3G why do you think this?

We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.

I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you: It means that we can control how much nonsense we are willing to deal with concerning them. How much time, energy, and effort that we are going to let them control concerning us. How much space we are going to let them rent in our heads for free. Lastly, how much longer we are we going to empower them. They've been in control for long enough: at our expense. Why be jerked around for years and years? And with no guarantees?

I have 3 girls to teach how to be treated by the person that is supposed to love you. I have 3 sets of eyes watching, and quite frankly, I'm more concerned at this point about how it's affecting them. Especially their future marriages. MLC seems to be a generational curse in some families. I know it's been in both mine and my XH's.

If you need more of an explanation than that, might I suggest the book, "Controlling People", by Patricia Evans. 

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I like the idea of this tread M3G. It gives a perspective of where the more "mature" LBS has got to!

This was my hope for this thread. Those of us who have chosen this route deserve to be able to talk about it without being lectured, or having to constantly told that our stance is not a good one. If it works for you personally, go for it. This is who this thread is for.

Thanks for the support Hardwork.

[xyzcf]

Quote from: xyzcf on December 14, 2016, 07:57:36 PM
M3G why do you think this?
Quote
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.

I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you:

I asked a simple question, that's all.

It is not always possible to be in "control" of the communication. I did not want LBSers who must interact with their spouse to feel like they are failing if they cannot always enforce their boundaries.

As much as you would like this thread to ONLY be commented on by people who totally agree with you, that is not the way that Hero's Spouse works. No thread is off limits to any member, regardless of any rules that you try to impose.

LBSers, including newbies are going to read all threads in their search for understanding of this catastrophic event. Each LBSer will choose for themselves what works for them in their particular situation. Respect for differing opinions is always appreciated and we can learn from each other in spite  of having a different view point.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Quote from: xyzcf on December 14, 2016, 07:57:36 PM
M3G why do you think this?
Quote
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.

I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you:

I asked a simple question, that's all.

It is not always possible to be in "control" of the communication. I did not want LBSers who must interact with their spouse to feel like they are failing if they cannot always enforce their boundaries.

As much as you would like this thread to ONLY be commented on by people who totally agree with you, that is not the way that Hero's Spouse works. No thread is off limits to any member, regardless of any rules that you try to impose.

LBSers, including newbies are going to read all threads in their search for understanding of this catastrophic event. Each LBSer will choose for themselves what works for them in their particular situation. Respect for differing opinions is always appreciated and we can learn from each other in spite  of having a different view point.

It's not a one size fits all. Period. As I have stated, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you. This is the last time I'm going to address you on this. Feel free to continue posting, but I'm staying on topic.

You can control unnecessary communication. Legal or concerning the kids is different, and I would suggest to anyone that even that be done through a lawyer to avoid toxicity. That is a real boundary that shouldn't be crossed. If you subject yourself to further abuse, that is your choice. No one can make that choice for you, but for those of us who choose not to... Again, our choice.

I won't be cherry picking, and won't be responding anymore to anyone that does. I didn't impose any rules, hence the disclaimer. I don't normally respond to you on threads. I thought by now you would've have gotten the hint.  And that is my choice.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Caliguy, Watcher and Hardwork,

Thanks for posting, it's nice to see the male take on this. From what I understand many times you are forced into NC against your wishes. Thanks for sharing. I hope that this thread gives you support and encouragement in your journeys.

[calamity]

Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent?

This is a discussion thread which I presume means a discussion with different points of view.  We post on the forum for support, advice, sharing among other things.  If you are shutting down anyone who disagrees with you what's the point of a forum?

The reader can chose to define violence as more than physical violence.  I agree that any contact with a mlcer could be regarded as abuse IF the lbs is not detached.

It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway.

The reason I posted the link was that it was not obvious to me that everyone on this thread had read about NC.  I know for a fact that some people only read the forum without posting, some post without ever reading the articles.

I believe 'no contact' is very misunderstood.  IF you are not standing, fine, go no contact but if standing, then I would be very careful.  Without communication any chance at reconciliation OR some kind of normal relationship would be impossible.

This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about.

So as I said, you want to silence anyone who disagrees?

[Velika]

I think that if a MLCer recovers at a certain point and attempts to reach out in a meaningful and responsible way, it is always possible to become less dim or dark and take a wait-and-see approach using a lot of caution.

Until then, I think that very low contact is important, both for the LBS protection and also not to make a volatile situation worse.

Many highly volatile, abusive, "monster" MLCers have behaviors that resemble mental illness, severe personality disorder like NPD, and addiction -- and in fact this may be what is going on. There are many great resources online for these and none involve "paving the way." Most identify the importance of responding and not reacting and of firm boundaries. I feel the "grey rock" or "medium chill" technique is a very useful tool for someone dealing with manipulation and abuse.

I also think Larry Bilotta has an idea along these lines, be nice and pleasant but no time for MLCer. Can't talk, can't visit, can't stay. Act as though you have just found out that your MLCer has been institutionalized.

I feel that telling a newbie to detach or do the 180 is like telling someone whose home was just bombed out that they need to detach from the home, or act cheerful and busy so the home can be rebuilt. Few in that level of emotional devastation can manage this. In this case, low/no contact is a very helpful realistic guideline that protects a vulnerable LBS from an irrational and aggressive MLCer.

One fantastic resource online that OffRoad recommended is Out of the Fog. It has really great, detailed guidelines for dealing with people with suspected or diagnosed personality disorder/mental illness.

I am someone who spent several months engaging with MLCer not understanding what was going on. Then I attempted a more detached style of interaction. While this was valuable from an observation standpoint, he ended up cycling back into aggressive/monster state and continues to cycle from attempts at being "friendly" to being angry and controlling even with almost no input from me. All to say, no contact may reveal just how little we have to do with any of this.

I also feel in terms of LBS personal growth no contact is invaluable. It has helped me have time to reflect, learn from this experience, and above all I feel really learn that I am responsible for my own responses to things, and that ultimately what is going to make me feel good or bad are my own actions and behavior. As Watcher writes, this distance is a time to really look back and look forward.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent?

This is a discussion thread which I presume means a discussion with different points of view.  We post on the forum for support, advice, sharing among other things.  If you are shutting down anyone who disagrees with you what's the point of a forum?

The reader can chose to define violence as more than physical violence.  I agree that any contact with a mlcer could be regarded as abuse IF the lbs is not detached.

It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway.

The reason I posted the link was that it was not obvious to me that everyone on this thread had read about NC.  I know for a fact that some people only read the forum without posting, some post without ever reading the articles.

I believe 'no contact' is very misunderstood.  IF you are not standing, fine, go no contact but if standing, then I would be very careful.  Without communication any chance at reconciliation OR some kind of normal relationship would be impossible.

This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about.

So as I said, you want to silence anyone who disagrees?

The only thing your post is implying, at least to me. Is that you feel that we who are reading or posting on this thread are incapable of and/or lacking: sound judgment, the ability to make our own decisions based on the information provided, that we don't understand what it is we are doing, and that we are making a poor choice according to your assessment of OUR PERSONAL SITUATIONS.

At the very least, it is questioning our intelligence, critical thinking skills, and an ability to assess our our situations to come to the right conclusions for ourselves and our families. Not to mention that you aren't privy to anyone's complete situation, and making a statement that LBSers need to be careful is a blanket one size fits all, within a complex set of circumstances.

Besides your line of reasoning ( and stance ) is based on your own personal decision to not go NC. We can decide for ourselves what we are going to do, we ( those that have made this decision ) really don't need others to remind us of their personal decisions not to NC, there are enough threads for that stance already. That debate is tired and old, and enough threads have been hijacked with this issue.

I'll just leave this right here.