[Velika]

Previous thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7709.0

[Velika]

I agree it is important for any LBS to understand this as a physical change and not an emotional/circumstial one. If for instance you see this as the brain not being able to distinguish between fantasy and reality, regulate emotions, understand consequence, feel empathy -- and not someone just "acting out" -- it is easier to manage responses that don't exacerbate the condition, especially in a state of shock and trauma.

In my husband's case though I do believe that our circumstances (circumstances beyond our control) were the trigger and that if the circumstances had not been as they are, then this would never have happened. However, where MLC as a brain chemistry thing comes into play for me is not in why it happened but how it has played itself out. His ongoing behavior fits the MLC pattern.

There was a discussion a while back that MLC was stress + depression + addiction (typically seen in form of affair or fantasy affair). Someone pointed out there were a high number of MLCers with twins or high stress jobs.

[Ready2Transform]

I think (and it's just my theory) that when we say there is nothing we could have done to prevent it, that's accurate because even if a situation triggered it, removing the situation doesn't change the risk of it. This goes back to Changing4Ever's last statement, which I also believed for a long time (we were having huge financial issues, family problems, etc., and I assumed everything would be better once we fixed the outer things).

But the underlying issue (chemical impairment, genetics, or psychological predisposition) still exists. There's a reason the trigger made them behave this certain way. But also, like with bipolar mania, it's not inevitable - once you understand the risk, you can, not control it, but at least be a better predictor of what triggers it and/or what signs show it's coming on so you can take measures to ease it.

That's not a perfect science, but I am hopeful that one day, if we recognize this as a 'thing' that is more than just a punchline, a plan of action for the individual can be taken to fit their unique needs, and turn from crisis to transition. My own crisis didn't 'stop' until I changed nutritionally (supplements that regulated serotonin and dopamine) and delved 100% into a plan of personal and spiritual development. I don't think there's a magic pill that just stops it, but if it was seen as a disorder, the shame factor could be lifted and treatment for the individual could be developed.

[Not Applicable]

We actually had agreed upon a solution for our issue that triggered all this, but this involved relying on the goodwill of family members. Then he started to have problems with other family members (not the ones involved in solving the problem) and his relationship with them became cut off or strained and he decided that he didn't feel comfortable relying on the family members who were going to help us solve our issue. So he had to look elsewhere for a solution. That's what pushed him over the edge. And seeing his mother aging not so well (a great deal due to her own self-neglect), also made the issue we were facing bigger in his mind. However, this is also a third reason I forgot to mention that I have been willing to tolerate what is happening, because just by chance the issue we were facing was actually the topic of my PhD dissertation. So as much as I don't like what he is doing, I understand the cultural and social and personal pressures that he is feeling because i spent 10 years of my life researching the topic, never expecting it would happen to me.

While my husband is clearly depressed, fear plays a huge role in his MLC. He won't admit it, but it is very clear to me (and the OW). Not sure if it is classic anxiety, but definitely I would say this is another emotion that becomes exaggerated in MLC.

Even today he asked me about whether he could rely on me for something that he has long relied on me for, and I basically told him stop worrying as this is not something you would need now, maybe 2 or 3 years down the line at the earliest so don't ask me now. It's an issue where early on in his MLC I drew a clear boundary that never existed before between us (wish I had made it even earlier or else things might have turned out much different) and I reiterated that boundary today, gently though telling him in an emergency the boundary could be crossed. That shut him up. But clearly some anxiety was bubbling up in him.

In fact, I would argue that anxiety is more likely the cause of the MLC and depression is just the symptom. The anxiety made him do it, but he is depressed that he has done it.

I make a conscious choice every day to stay with my husband in spite of his craziness because I do believe he can't help most of it. That there is something going on with his brain chemistry. Many years ago I actually believed he was manic-depressive. Not full blown crazy manic-depressive, more mild than many cases I read about, but he definitely would cycle a few days happy and upbeat and a few days withdrawn and depressed. He pretty much outgrew that at least in the very obvious form, but at the time when I noticed it I also made a conscious choice inside myself to stand by him if indeed he was really manic-depressive. So yes, knowing they have an illness is so important.

[Christina13]

I have noticed the same things with my H. He would say he was depressed early on. Constantly had stomach issues I believe from anxiety. I have clearly seen behavior that cycles from depressed to belligerent , to trying to act happy.
What I struggle with is the road he took to feel better. OW , drugs , and abandonment.
 I've hung on believing this is definitely a sickness. For me it's paramount for me to understand what really happened to him.
This thread is insightful. Thank you.

[Ready2Transform]

You've sparked an angle I hadn't thought of before. There IS a thing (in the DSM) called mixed anxiety-depressive disorder. The risk factors (via wiki - take for what it's worth) are everything we've just discussed.

Risk factors for mixed anxiety-depressive disorder include risk factors for either depression or anxiety disorders. These risk factors often overlap and may include:

    History of mental health disorders in the family, including substance addictions
    Living in poverty
    Lack of social or familial support
    Having a serious or chronic illness
    Low self-esteem
    Childhood trauma
    Stress

Going to do more research on this, but interesting that my xH was ecstatic when he talked his psych into changing his diagnosis from bipolar to generalized anxiety. It was clearly so much more than that.

[Roma]

If I misunderstood you Thunder, that is my bad. Thogught you were saying MLC just happens to everyone, because I did read that somewhere and know for a fact it's untrue.

[Lost]

Just wanted to point out this article again - though in our understanding it probably should say MLT and not MLC:

Great apes go through mid-life crisis
Survey hints at biological cause for middle-age blues.
http://www.nature.com/news/great-apes-go-through-mid-life-crisis-1.11847

I understand this as if even apes get it that there is a biological cause that all people go through at that age, and then I believe depending on maybe the ´dose´ of that biological cause, personality and triggers and other circumstances (including unfortunately if OW is more complete AD or quite compatible) etc. the individual either just feels less happy during these years and then adjusts, or goes through a MLT, or a short or long MLC and comes or not out/back afterwards.

[Lost]

I forgot the hereditary part I think that can easily influence on one side how susceptible one is to these biological causes and also on the personality traits that might or not increase the effect.

[kikki]

MLC has been around for years and years yet not listed in the DSM5.  Probably because not every person goes though it.

One of my favourite quotes from Conway's 'Men in MLC' is:

"Years ago The New York Times ran an anonymous but pointed letter which read in part, "I was forty years old and my husband forty-six when the eccentric behaviour began.  An otherwise reasonable and family-loving man suffered, not depression as we understood it, but rage, fatigue, incommunicability, suspicion, hostility.  But every incident was my fault supposedly.  I was the woman and I was alleged to be in the change of life. Unfortunately, doctors, psychiatrists, men in general, have kept it all under the rug where they have swept it themselves.  They are in terror of the truth of acknowledging a condition which affects their behaviour beyond their control, but which they readily ascribe to women without mercy."

Added to that, correct me if I'm wrong, but most research is funded by drug companies.  Funded because there is the potential to make large sums of money from selling medication to 'cure' what ails us.  The myth of MLC has placed this under the psychological/moral/character umbrella, of which there is no potential to generate an income for the research investor.  I think that is a large part of the reason MLC has never been taken seriously.