[Velika]

C4E, I think what you wrote is very important. My MLC-H is a partner at a law firm. Legally we could have been divorced a year ago. He is now expecting a baby and we are still not legally divorced.

I believe like you that this is medical. In my case because of the baby I know we cannot reconcile. So I am not standing so much as trying to understand what has happened.

There are a lot of truisms that are repeated in this site. I think some are worth questioning.

[Roma]

Anjae and Thunder,

I don't see a need to debate and you can think anything you want yet RCR and HB agree with me.

The length as has to do with how severe the childhood issues were and how fast the MLCer was able to work them out.

If you don't want to think it has anything to do with childhood traumas, then that wouldn't apply to you.

[Not Applicable]

I've read a lot about childhood issues being a factor, but I have yet to see a clear and convincing example of it. HB's articles about "children of the issues" are very vague to me.

I can imagine childhood issues playing some role in my husband's case but without others giving really good examples of such cases I have yet to be convinced of it.

Velika, Why is the baby a barrier to reconciliation?

[Velika]

I've read a lot about childhood issues being a factor, but I have yet to see a clear and convincing example of it. HB's articles about "children of the issues" are very vague to me.

I can imagine childhood issues playing some role in my husband's case but without others giving really good examples of such cases I have yet to be convinced of it.

I think some of the "children" part enters with who they pick as the affair partner. Many start as confidants. It is someone they are drawn to when they are still able to function better and at least initially offer a way to explore/fantasize about other aspects of their personality. ("Shadow persona," "anima.")

I think this in a sense "sets up" what unfolds when the eight ball hits. (Eight all = neurological tipping point.)

My MLC-H and his MLC-sister both had "accidental" pregnancies in MLC when their child/youngest child was the same age as my husband was when his mom had a shotgun wedding to an abusive stepfather. In my mind this is definitely some type of unconscious reenactment of very specific wounding.

My MLC-SIL "corrected" her mom's mistake by terminating the pregnancy, but it did not end MLC. She did not work through her issue, in other words.

I had a small crisis in my early twenties that was brought about by taking birth control pills. While not extreme/dangerous, I did things that were both out of character and totally in line with my own issues -- because I was still me, with my own history. When I stopped taking the pills, I felt almost instantly better and made better choices for myself. I did not resolve anything during this "crisis"/adverse medical reaction. In fact like many former MLCers I feel embarrassed about much of it -- and my actions were mild in comparison.

Velika, Why is the baby a barrier to reconciliation?

I don't think my husband will ever recover, based on his family history. But aside from that, I think there was a tipping point where he did too much damage. I don't think I could ever trust him again, and much of this has to do not with his actions when he had clearly lost his mind but to his actions leading up to that, when he was able to pretend so well. This for me is actually worse in many ways.

[xyzcf]

Erik Erickson is well known for his 8 stages of psychosocial development. He outlines specific developmental tasks that need to be attained in order for a person to "successfully" complete a certain stage of life. As part of my nursing education, I had one course that was totally about these stages and how they are impacted by illness.

Just because a person appears to have had a "good" childhood, may not necessarily mean that their needs were always met, or that some critical thing happened that perhaps they are not even aware of that has somehow led to this needing to be resolved later in their lives.

For example, did the mother suffer from post party depression and wasn't able to meet the needs of her newborn. Studies that were done with baby monkeys who were removed from their mothers, even though they were adequately fed, did not thrive. Those whose formula was given by a fake monkey but one that was soft and furry gained weight and thrived compared to those who were given milk alone.

How was toilet training handled? Was the child sexually abused and have they subconsciously buried that abuse? Did a grandparent or other family member die...how was that handled? What kinds of punishment were inflicted on the child? What kind of cultural restraints were placed on the child...eg: boys don't cry.

In the very early years of infancy and childhood, many many things could have happened that arrested the development in some way or another...even in families that appear "perfect".

We don't know what effect this type of trauma could have inflicted upon them. We know that severe trauma such as rape or war does cause biochemical changes in the brain that leads to permanent changes, causing symptoms of post traumatic stress syndrome. When the very young brain is developing, perhaps even in utero, many factors could impact them that could cause them to crack later in life.

So many of our spouses had ED issues, so many experienced a crisis after the death of a parent...there is a link perhaps. How were their bodies considered? If they touched their genitalia as an infant, how did a caregiver respond to that..was their hand slapped? Were they scolded and told they were bad?

Those are things we will never know about family of origin issues but they are things that could explain some of the characteristics that occur later in life.

The first couple of years of development is perhaps the most important time our lives.....things that are set in those early years become permanent fixtures of who we are.

[kikki]

Absolutely agree xyz.

And what is trauma to one child, may or may not have the same degree of trauma attached to it for another child in the family. Different personalities view the world in different ways.

One large trauma, can be as destructive as many many little ones chipping away.

Family dysfunction can easily be buried behind large public smiles.

[Velika]

I don't know, I think if this were related simply to childhood trauma (and especially what you are describing here), then we would see this all the time and everywhere.

I believe that in many instances on this board, the "childhood trauma" was actually the MLC of a parent, and that this repeats not because of psychological reasons but for physiological ones.

Whatever happens, I think the brain becomes overwhelmed and cannot function, especially in the frontotemporal lobe. If this were not the case then I think we would see more instance of freak out at bomb drop and then a return home after a few months of perspective/consideration. Instead, many grow worse and worse and increasingly unrecognizable until the condition either stabilizes or improves.

[Thunder]

I am certainly not saying childhood or adolescent trauma can't cause a MLC, it sure can!
But there are many theories out there as to the cause, by psychoanalists and psychologists.  I've read a lot of them.

You need to keep in mind neither RCR or HB claim to have any medical training, nor do they claim to be experts.  They did extensive research just like we are.

Just an example:

A midlife crisis is experienced between the ages of 40 and 60. It was first identified by the psychologist Carl Jung and is a normal part of the maturing process. Most people will experience some form of emotional transition during that time of life. A transition that might cause them to take stock in where they are in life and make some needed adjustments to the way they live their life. Most seem to come through the process smoothly without making major life changes.

For some, a midlife crisis is more complicated.
3 external factors that may cause midlife to be problematic for some people are:

1 .  Debt:
It is easier to accumulate debt due to the availability of credit cards and loans. We are bombarded by credit card companies and it is easy to find yourself with large balances owed. We live in a society where it is commonplace to be living above our means. Finding yourself middle aged, in debt and facing retirement can add stress to an already stressful time in life. A normal reaction would be to seek help from a debt management company or consolidate your loans. A person who is finding it difficult emotionally during midlife might find it easier to walk away from their family in order to rid himself of what he feels is the cause of all the debt.

2 . Significant Loss:
The death of a parent or family member can cause grief, which is difficult enough to come to terms with, without having to also cope with the feelings of a midlife transition. Put the loss of a loved one with the feelings that accompany midlife and the whole process becomes bewildering and overwhelming.

3 .  Avoidant Personality:
If a person has a tendency to avoid conflict in their personal relationships, suffers from feelings of inadequacy, are emotionally distant and has low self – esteem they will find midlife transition harder to navigate. This personality type has a deep fear of feeling shame and rejection. Such feelings will keep them from seeking help should their emotions become overwhelming. More than likely, they will run from their problems instead of trying to find solutions to them. It’s this personality type that normally ends up in divorce court during midlife.

Whether there are external factors that make the process more difficult or not, there is an internal process that is gone through. If a person lacks understanding of the process, he may find himself making irrational decisions he may later regret such as leaving a job, divorcing his spouse and throwing away the security that he built during the first part of his life.

[Not Applicable]

I had a brief but somewhat self-reflective conversation with my husband about an hour ago. The things he said got me doing some research as to what would explain some of his odd thinking. I came across a different part of the brain called the anterior cingulate cortex. The dysfunction of this part of the brain I could see explaining a lot of the MLC behavior. It would be interesting if you all were to google it and see what you think. I am not even going to speculate about the chemistry of it but if its capabilities to do what it is supposed to do were redced to me could explain a lot. I don't want to say too much now as I'd be interested in your own theories without being affected by my own.

[Thunder]

It explains a lot about depression.   

I would suppose AD drugs maybe target that part of the brain.