[karmirtsaghik]

Thundarr,

ISIS is an organization that was created, financed, trained, and unleashed by the US, in order to infiltrate into Syria, and engage in a proxy war on behalf of US, also in order to out balance Iran's growing influence in the region, owing to our CRIMINAL AND IMMORAL WAR IN IRAQ.  The goal of the war in Syria, is to replace Assad. Let us see, who is more dangerous now. The entire military-industrial complex of the US or ISIS, Al Quada, AL Nusra, and othe smaller terrorist organizations. Religion is just a tool for these organizations to achieve their end result. The results that were ordered by their masters accross the ocean, and agreed upon by bloody dictatorial regimes of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey.

We created a monster, and now we fear mongering and brainwashing our population. If the US really wanted, ISIS would cease to exist in a very short time.

Every week Trump opens his big mouth and says that we should have taken Iraqi oil. Excuse me, but last time I checked Iraq was a souvereign state, unapologetically destroyed by the US. The Government and the people of Iraq, should decide how that country is going to use its natural resources.

Do you know who many recruits ISIS will get just out of this statement and the Muslim ban? A lot, trust me. They would say, see, these greedy Americans are trying to destroy our countries, attack Muslims, for our oil. Would it be a far reached idea. No.
Again I would re-post a Jewish proverb. "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining."

[Not Applicable]

Thundarr-As a family counselor, I am sure you are aware of the statistics for child abuse in the US. There was an article posted in the forum the other day that showed it was nearly 40% suffered some kind of physical, sexual or verbal abuse or other stressful situation (like an abused mother, drug addiction in the home). I found this shocking. And since so many of us have spouses that grew up in households where this sort of thing went on and they wound up with MLC later in life, the impact of this is devastating. This is something about which you can actually maybe have an impact, help people, do something about it, because it is something you know something about due to your training and experience.

[Thundarr]

We may be safe now (although we have NO idea what is being planned from within our borders already) but unless we take action to ensure that safety is protected we could easily find ourselves in a situation like the one lady described where bombs were being detonated and bullets fired in the streets as part of our daily lives. 

And those bombs and bullets will mostly come from guns fired by A$$HOLES just like you!  Personal attacks, do you listen to yourself.  Substantiated points!  Proof!  Good gawd, Thundarr, you need to start taking some of the meds you dish out to those delusional clients you supposedly counsel.

The truth is and you will never admit it, nor any others just like you... you white boys have been feeling threatened, disenfranchised, emasculated... and now you feel like you have a champion in your corner, called TRUMP!  For now, you do, UNTIL his power hungry thirst needs more and more and more power.  I can't wait until he throws you and your feeble white male friends and your silly white women who scream, God first, Husband second...under the bus.  TRUMPSTER demands loyalty... but he doesn't return it.

Try to remember where you heard this from... cause you'll see all this come to fruition in good time. 

Calamity, I totally agree with you, the dumpster doesn't give a tinkers dam about anybody but himself.  His latest thing is being president, he will never see it as what it really is... A PUBLIC SERVANT to your people.   All he wants, is to be KING of America. 

osb, you are a brilliant lady but quite frankly you are dealing with UTTER STUPIDITY here... nothing anybody can say that will change the mind of STUPID!

Good, good.  Let the Butthurt flow through you.  Ignore the fact that your own beloved Prime Minister embraced Trump just last week.

[karmirtsaghik]

Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon were the most religiously tolerant, multi-denominational countries of the region, where my compatriots found refuge after bloody Genocide of 1915, perpetrated by Ottoman Impire. My compatriots enjoyed flourishing lives in these countries, able to practice their religion, and keep their culture and schools. Muslims opened their hearts and homes to my compatriots, they peacefully co-existed in Middle East for centuries. Who ignited these wars? Who destroyed the Middle East? Who incited religious intolerance, and divide? A country that is thousands miles away from that region, in order to gain control over the region's carbohydrate wealth. Just listen to congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, she served in Iraq, she knows what is going on. Enough this brainwashing.
And yes now Christians are being slaughtered in Middle East, but guess what? The responsibility lies with US for these acts of atrocity. Because we created and continue to feed the monster, that is ISIS. Again, if US really wanted ISIS would cease to exist ina very short time. And I am not talking about Muslim ban.

[karmirtsaghik]

Actually, Thundarr, Canadian Prime Minister, was taking Trump to school while visiting him in Washington D.C.
Curricula included the following subjects:
1. Plurality of opinions
2. Trade negotioations
3. Immigration and refugee rights
4. Other subjects pertaining to bi-lateral relations.

The teacher exhibited superior mastery of all subjects. His delivery was eloquent and well recieved and admired.
The student is work in progress at best.

[forthetrees]

T,
You brought up healthcare in your post yesterday. You can now read Ryan´s version at the NYTimes that is being called less for more- less coverage for more money.
You posted that Christians in the US were under attack today. Don´t worry, I´m sure that were ISIS to reach our shores in critical mass, they would obliterate the Jews first. You are safe.

No one would disagree that ISIS attacks Christians. To me, calling a terrorist an Islamic terrorist is like calling a wolf in sheep´s clothing a sheep. They hide behind the pretext of doing their actions out of devotion to a faith. Sounds a lot like the Crusades. Yes, I would argue that the crusaders were not true Christians- last I knew Christianity was not a killer faith either.

On the lighter side, the Canadian PM avoided the Trumpian embrace by putting his left hand on Trump´s right shoulder to brace against him to keep Trump from yanking him in on the now famous Trumpian power play handshake.

Maybe this all comes down to a difference in demographic diversity between the coasts and the interior rural and relatively rural US. Humans are wired to be suspicious of difference and it takes an awareness and effort to go beyond that instinct.

Other than Fox news and facebook, what news sources are you tapping into on a daily basis?

[stayed]

Good, good.  Let the Butthurt flow through you.  Ignore the fact that your own beloved Prime Minister embraced Trump just last week.

I was about to say, "that is called DIPLOMACY", butthead! lol Sadly, there are quite a few people in Canada that are a lot like Thundarr, claiming that Justin Trudeau sucked up to the dumpster! 

It is lovely to see, so many very smart people say how polished and eloquent a Statesman my Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau is. Thank you fellow LBSer for your kind words of my Prime Minister.  Handsome kid, isn't he?  Smart too!   

Hugs Stayed

 

[Thundarr]

Thundarr-As a family counselor, I am sure you are aware of the statistics for child abuse in the US. There was an article posted in the forum the other day that showed it was nearly 40% suffered some kind of physical, sexual or verbal abuse or other stressful situation (like an abused mother, drug addiction in the home). I found this shocking. And since so many of us have spouses that grew up in households where this sort of thing went on and they wound up with MLC later in life, the impact of this is devastating. This is something about which you can actually maybe have an impact, help people, do something about it, because it is something you know something about due to your training and experience.

I already do this every day.  Not sure if I'm making a significant difference or not as I guess there's no way one would ever know if they helped prevent an MLC.

Karmir, I said many times I won't debate our part in creating the hostility against Americans as I know we and Israel have played a part, but that doesn't help protect us from the problem.  I hope we can one day have peace between us and all of our current enemies but I don't know if that can happen in our lifetimes when you're talking generations of hatred between religious philosophies.  Many Muslims are still angry over the Crusades apparently and are continuing that fight, per reports.

FTT, the thing is that if you read back there were SEVERAL who denied that Muslims were targeting Christians at all, and NOT ONE SINGE ONE admitted being wrong about that.  I'm not a big Paul Ryan fan anymore so I wouldn't be surprised if his plan is faulty, but the promises Obama made were too far-reaching and unsustainable.  We may well have to deal with accepting less at a higher rate just because that's reality.  I am excited for Rand Paul's plan and what that might look like.  I'm also excited about how many will have jobs available now that will offer health insurance.  Hopefully we can start focusing on training that workforce so that we can once again become a world leader in manufacturing and technology.

As for news sources I have several, including MSNBC and CNN who I like to check out just to laugh at the outright bias.  Not many reputable news organizations left anymore, and the dawn of 24-hour news programs and the sensationalistic reporting required to keep people attuned to those channels has a lot to do with it.  I had actually boycotted Foxnews for quite a while for this selfsame reason as I got tired of hearing about every super bug that was going to eradicate the planet's population.

And Trudeau can't lace Trump's shoes on his best day, Stayed.  Know what I'm talking "aboot."  lol

[Rollercoasterider]

I am shutting down this thread.
Discussing the election was fine and normal when it was such a large part of our lives, but this has gone well-beyond and has become an issues thread and some people are being inappropriate in their anger as they disagree with one another.
I have not read more than the first few posts...yet. But what I read was so bad that I want to shut it down now and I can finish reading later.

[Rollercoasterider]

Debate, differences of opinion and conflict are not in themselves bad things...but they must be done with respect for the "other's voice.

I apologize for using this closed thread to post. I am trying to steer clear of the actual topic of debate in this post—and sometimes I’ve probably failed. Instead, my intention is to point out how this discussion went off the rails and became uncivil.
I am choosing not to quote the comments with the person’s name and a link—you can look back and see who said what and may already know who said what. This is because I am not at this time trying to highlight anyone and call them out—that will be for PM. I just want to show how some comments are ineffective and rude.

I am uncertain whether this thread or a new election thread will be opened later because there would need to be some moderation of posts before they go public—due to the rudeness. I have commented to most of the quotes, but some I am just leaving alone with the general comment here: This does not further the debate or sway people to your views.
Please don’t get after me if I fail to include something inappropriate, there was a lot to choose from and so I did not include everything.

The amount of misinformation and propaganda on this thread is staggering.

There's a lot of butthurt going around because Hillary lost in a shocking defeat after an ugly campaign…

Butthurt? Let’s keep it civil.
This does not speak to the issues of concern, but is just something slung to upset and insult your opponents who may have valid reasons for their beliefs—just like you.]
Point: respect that both sides believe in their views of the issues (you can do this without agreeing with their views…just validate), rather than the side opposite you is just having a tantrum and your side knows best.

We suffered through 8 years of a Teflon-coated figurehead president and none of our lives are better now…

Speak for yourself. My life is certainly better now. I prefer to give the credit to Chuck and myself and not the president, but my point is do not assume a universal experience. It’s going to work against your argument since we each have unique and personal interpretations and experiences of events.

Your vision of how the World works, and arrogance of your uninformed messages is really

While I may agree with this sort of comment regarding some visions, it still does not help further a civil debate or discourse, rather it insults and alienates the opposition who may reciprocate with mud and the debate just becomes dirtier and dirtier.

No need for me to go on because your argument seems to be so FOX news dictated, Like they brainwashed you, I'd rather watch them.
I'd prefer to have an intelligent debate where we could both learn from.

I’d prefer an intelligent (and civil) debate too, but this is not how to get there. Both sides are doing this—this comment is similar from the other side.

…the liberal narrative that implies anyone who disagrees with them does so out of fear or hatred.

to even call it that is stupid.

Do you guys have amnesia or just choose to forget

there's no reasoning with many of you as all you know are insults and dismissals of facts.

and people like you who resort to name-calling and accusations

no matter what FOX news told you

Nuff said.

Seriously…nuff said like that sums everything up and is conclusive? Do better.

I note your avatar here is taken from that site. So you must identify with the thoughts on that site quite closely. So can you explain how you are different from an ISIS supporter in that regard?

My avatar is taken from my favorite 70's cartoon. Unbelievable.

I agree…with the frustration of the comment unbelievable, and yet the addition detracts. The response (comeback) lost strength with that addition.
The comment regarding the avatar is an example of a comment meant to discredit the opponent with a deflection: you are some sort of radical, so we shouldn’t listen to you.

Deny facts all you will. I present neither opinion nor conjecture but rather actual facts, logic and reason. I'll continue to advocate for keeping you and your family's safe even while you continue to live in a bubble. I just hope you don't find yourself in the blast zone of what's to come, as thousands of Americans already have.

Discredit your opponents evidence by saying your facts are actual which implies theirs are not. And usually each side considers themselves to be reasonable—and often they consider the other side is not, so saying you are being reasonable without backing it up is irresponsible.
Then insult your opponent (living in a bubble) and finish it with a you’ll see in the end and regret your view/action/belief/vote.
This is a sort of attack and why people will complain about inappropriateness. It is not civil and goes off the rails to try and get others to see your point…and it fails. To me it seems ironic that being logical and reasonable were referenced.
It’s all opinion! Even the facts are spun through a web of opinion…on both sides and I do have a side in this, I just don’t think it’s important for the point I’m trying to make.

Your bullying tactics, name-calling and accusations are exactly why...

Projection.

...you're on the losing side of that division. Digest that.

I actually had to rethink my own comment to this so as not to go down into the pit. I am trying. Stop making this about winners and losers. The Hillary supporters and maybe non-supporters who voted for her think the entire nation is on the losing end and had she won, the Trump supporters and non-supporters who voted for him might feel the same way.
What I wish people would concede to is that this is not a normal election response. In a normal election I accept it if my candidate loses and am fine and feel the person who won will still be capable of the job—even if I don’t like their politics. People don’t feel that way this time. It’s way beyond the issues and to imply that it’s just a case of sore losers is disrespectful and dismissive of the opposition. And if this election should teach us something it is that the opposition is worth listening to—given that the Trump win was such a shock to assumingly most people.

Trump is the most alpha president since Teddy Roosevelt and I think it's just a shock to many people's system.

Nothing about issues here. And he’s no Teddy Roosevelt…Maybe I should become a registered member of the Bull Moose Party.

Stop implying, X. Nothing derogatory was said or mentioned.

That is a rude and ignorant statement. People were offended and that comment invalidates those feelings.

do not accuse me of bigotry for quoting facts.

The bigotry is buried in the comments and perhaps how the facts were presented or interpreted.

...stop the patronizing. It's just sad.

This sounds angry and to me it feels like projection and it does not add to the argument trying to be made--supposing that argument is to show why Trump is a positive candidate with good policies.

Take your "someone like you" comment and shove it. You're the ignorant, intolerant one to even make such dismissive statements toward those who disagree with you.

Rude and highly inappropriate
It is this sort of comment (along with others) that could lead to post moderation.

have you guys given any thought by how your attacks on me might be scaring any who might agree from posting?

It appears that both sides feel attacked. Attacking and then accusing of attacking are not going to help further a civil discussion and help sway people to agreeing and even understanding your point of view.

you may well be bullying others into losing their voice on a topic they may be passionate about. Are you okay with silencing other women or would you invite them to share their opinions in a respectful discussion?

The irony being that the comment is not respectful. Two sides accusing one another of bullying is getting you stuck on the bullying and attacking and avoiding the intended topic of discussion--politics in the US. It does feel as though one side makes attempts to deflect from the bullying and the other keeps feeling attacked and hurt and brings it back to that.

the vast majority are wonderful people but some are VERY bad.

Do you have any proof, or are you just going by what someone told you?

This is something I notice happening when one person seems overboard to others in their beliefs...we toss out or challenge everything they say because of who is speaking. There are people in all faiths who will use their beliefs for bad, evil and division and there are people in all faiths who use their beliefs for unification and love--hopefully there are more of the latter. When you dismiss someone--even though they seem so overboard--you fuel their feelings of not being heard, being disenfranchised and they resort to more anger and projection. Basically, dismissing or invalidating someone enables division.

You're irrelevant. Just go back to your communal narcissistic bubble and don't bother commenting to me again.

Seriously? I should not even have to point out the inappropriateness of that comment.
Again… a moderation worthy comment

People with low self esteem are vulnerable to "male alfa's" of the likes of the trumpster!

This is an attack on the voter. Low Self-Esteem was not a requirement for supporting Trump. I may not get why someone would support him either, but this is a dismissal and refusal to listen and try to learn why we are so divided...in order to unify.

you're not important enough to me to hit a nerve. I know you're hoping for a nasty response from me so that you can run back to the mod board and try to get me banned like you have 100 times before, but just like Hillary you always fall short.

More rudeness. And she did not run back to the mod board to complain...the complaints came from all over—and she was not one of the complainers.

I have many Trump haters on my FB page and love each and every one of them, even when we engage in spirited debates like this one.

This has not been a spirited debate--some have tried to deflect and calm it down, but the rudeness and attacks have been prevalent.

I've never in my life seem so many blindly denying facts that are right in front of their face in order to live some sort of fantasy narrative that the world is full of peace and love and that we can all just sit around a campfire singing Kumbaya.

Another attack rather than civil counter argument that furthers your point.
The world is full of what it has always been full of... peace, love, hate, violence... It's always been a dangerous place with some places being more dangerous than others at different times and with the dangers changing with history and technology. In 1776 war was different than in 1942 and it is different now in 2017. More dangerous? Hand-to-hand combat—a clear and direct danger versus being bombed by an enemy you never see coming. Living in fear, however, is a choice.

Stop with the petty personal attacks ("people like you," etc) and have a frank, honest and respectful discussion wherein you cite facts to back up your points just as El and I have.

I don't know how El feels being grouped together. On this thread he has sounded calm and rational and so have most of those that disagree--a few have had some inappropriate moments, but one person seems to have a monopoly on being inappropriate, rude, angry and projective… and this does not just detract from the points he is trying to make, it drives people further away--toward greater disagreement.

And those bombs and bullets will mostly come from guns fired by A$$HOLES just like you!

An example of the other side being inappropriate.
It's not that I don't get the frustration at the other side’s inappropriateness, but this does not help us raise the civility of the debate/discussion.

you white boys have been feeling threatened, disenfranchised, emasculated...

Discussing white male privilege and how they don’t get it is a common tactic and I totally understand it. But I'm thinking that it is not going to sway the people you are describing--white, privileged males. Some will listen, yeah, but others are going to take it more personally and be offended--even some who admit the validity. So consider what sort of argument you can make that will be less likely to alienate someone--and yeah, I know there is always going to be someone who takes offense, but consider what argument might work better on more people.

Let the Butthurt flow through you.

Again with that word? It’s immature.