Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Learning to walk the walk  (Read 8974 times)

Offline osbTopic starter

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My Story Reconnecting Learning to walk the walk
« on: February 23, 2017, 02:34:43 PM »
Brief recap, I'm 49, H also 49; BD was April 2012. H never completely left; lurked in basement like ogre under bridge, emerging just to snarl; or ran away to the hills to climb mountains like a maniac for months at a time. Couple of OW's (I think), all seem to have been EA's and heroic fantasies. Back together for the past 2+ years, H returned very uncooked and is gradually recovering his old self; I still count us as 'Reconnecting' because we've a ways to go before I'd convince myself to uncross my fingers. 

I didn't know what to call this thread; but realized my current dilemma highlights what I need to learn to do now. Put into practice everything I've learned.

If you've read any of my threads, you may know of my antipathy to racism and xenophobia... My FIL was the worst example of same. Few weeks after BD, he let loose with a stream of bigoted vitriol (cuz he thought he could, now that his son was divorcing me >:( ), which I have never forgiven. Given an opportunity to walk it back, he doubled down; and MIL followed along. Though H and I are reconciling, I have had no contact with his parents; and he understands why I will not. There ain't no fixing 'em. No reason in this world to subject myself to that pain. Having been raised Hindu, I choose to take the long view: people who try to make themselves feel bigger than another by smashing them with bigotry will probably be reborn for their next half dozen lives as worms or silverfish.

Well, unexpected things happen. Now MIL has cancer. Started chemo. Admitted to hospital the other night for complications. FIL is decompensating. H is (no surprise) in the mountains, because H hasn't completely stopped running away, and this is beyond his ability to cope. So because I must, I politely offered to drive FIL to the hospital. Have never been so relieved, when H told me not to worry, the neighbor would do it, as FIL "gets ornery when he's stressed". Ya don't say?? 

Am examining my motivations now. MIL had once given me a couple of plants for the office, which I'd deliberately stopped watering after the racist explosion, because that felt like the only stand I could make at the time (my IC laughed reprovingly, "your MIL isn't going to die because you stopped watering her plants, you know"). Their desiccated little plant corpses are still sitting here on the shelf. And MIL is slowly dying. And I feel... nothing. FIL is becoming an angry, raging muddle of self-pity and dementia. I feel... nothing. Other than silently hoping I won't actually be called upon to help him. H is struggling to find within himself responsibility. And I feel nothing.

Think I'm going to be reborn as a silverfish. Unless I can find within me compassion.


previous threads:   
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6529.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5892.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5440.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4138.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3334.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3033.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2791.0
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 03:54:29 PM by Anjae »
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Becoming_simlpy

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 02:39:46 PM »
Welcome to new thread OSB, I enjoy reading your thoughts. Fresh air in lbs land.

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 03:32:24 PM »
OSB,

Following along. Having never really been the butt of racist or xenophobic behavior, I have never been in your shoes, I can only imagine the pain of your own in laws' rejection  :( those who are a part of your husband.

I am passionate about social justice, to the point of being guilty of trying to 'fix' slights when they impact members of my family or my immediate social circle. I did it again today ::) - I feel like kicking myself sometimes, people tend to hide behind me.

I can relate to your not feeling anything... this kind of violence against your 'being' leaves you numb.It is how I was when my h. finally rejected me with his divorce.

I read something today and forgive me, I have no idea who originally thought this up ::) - 'Do not get upset with people or situations, both are powerless without your reaction'
I guess this is where responding appropriately is preferrable to reacting ;D

In a roundabout way I am saying that forgiveness is a response... forgiveness releases us.

As a Christian, I believe that what you sow, you reap - I understand you have a different, yet similar view of this.

You are a compassionate person, I see it. :)

M 57
H 57
S 27
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 03:41:31 PM »
You are compassionate. You are also not responsible in fixing or accommodating these people. That is a different level of involvement. I do believe in offering up forgiveness, but in this scenario, mainly to yourself - for not living up to the ultra high standard of sainthood that I think you might feel necessary. :) We have all done it and that's why we're here.

You have honestly stated what you feel in these situations and I think that's wonderful. You are observing your emotions and let yourself feel them. Take the plant skeletons outside to what will become a flower or bush in a few months, and spread the remains in the dirt, allowing them to nourish future beauty. It's a meditation in itself when we allow something to die so something new can be reborn.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 05:09:21 PM »
.
I do believe in offering up forgiveness, but in this scenario, mainly to yourself - for not living up to the ultra high standard of sainthood that I think you might feel necessary. :)

I love this Ready.  I have come to the conclusion that I am not going to force myself to like/spend time with/understand someone that I do not like and who I believe is behaving badly (currently my SIL).  I dearly hope that she will stop hurting and will therefore stop hurting others.  Until she does, I am going to stay out of her way as much as possible and spread my love and light in other directions.  The valuable time I spend trying to make her behaviour ok is taken away from others who would graciously receive it. 

You have honestly stated what you feel in these situations and I think that's wonderful. You are observing your emotions and let yourself feel them. Take the plant skeletons outside to what will become a flower or bush in a few months, and spread the remains in the dirt, allowing them to nourish future beauty. It's a meditation in itself when we allow something to die so something new can be reborn.

This is beautiful.  OSB, you make this forum more beautiful even when you are venting because it is raw and honest and gives us the permission to do the same.  Your talents and love are wasted on MIL and FIL - they never wanted it.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline Onward

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 06:11:48 PM »
Following along, osb. I think you are more compassionate than you imagine. Sending you support through this next stage -- wherever it might lead.
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline calamity

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 07:24:50 PM »
What I immediately thought was, you are compassionate osb, you don't have to be a saint.  But then, Ready said it better:
 
Quote
I do believe in offering up forgiveness, but in this scenario, mainly to yourself - for not living up to the ultra high standard of sainthood that I think you might feel necessary

Offline Capri

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 08:42:23 PM »
Following along osb. 

One day at a time.  That's the pace.  Each day brings with it new challenges as well as opportunities to resolve issues.  You seem to be navigating these frustrations with grace.  After all, how does one deal with the declining health of a "loved" one who has been so brutal to you personally? 

You are able to verbalized your hurt, determine its source, and analyze your options for dealing with it.  Your in laws words and actions are all the more hurtful than if they came from strangers.  But, you have the capacity to overcome their unacceptable behavior.  I sense that you are well on your way with that end. 

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 11:03:13 PM »
Osb, following along and shaking my head as I read about how you have been treated by your in-laws.

It is true that comments made by them hurt, even more perhaps than by strangers.

You don't need to subject yourself ever to abuse.

I do know that you are a caring and compassionate woman. Forgiving them doesn't mean you need to interact with them but will free you from spending energy on their lack of tolerance and understanding.

Thank you for sharing your story with us...always give me hope for my own situation.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

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Offline RainbowGal

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 08:47:51 AM »
Also following along OSB.

 Sad to hear how badly your in-laws have treated you.Some situations in life can really bring out the very worst aspects of peoples personalities.Just as we are seeing increased bigotry since the Trump regime took power,MLC also shows us who our true friends and family are.There are handful of both for me,that are no longer in my life and I have come to realize that is not a bad thing.

 "The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people."-Martin Luther King Jr.
Me-52
Wife-56
T-29 years
M-November,2010
3-furry four-legged loving canine kids
EA begins-Jan,2011
Mini BD-April 1,2011
EA goes PA-Sept 2011
ILYBNILWY speech-Oct 2011
PA with alienator 20 years younger confirmed-early Nov 2011
Moved in and out 8 times before getting her $h!te together.

Reconnected November 7,2012
Reconciled,2013

 And my destination makes it worth the while
Pushing through the darkness still another mile
I believe in angels
Something good in everything I see
I believe in angels
When I know the time is right for me
I'll cross the stream - I have a dream
-ABBA

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 09:04:33 AM »
As well, following along.  And standing beside you in spirit.  Your portrait is coming along nicely BTW. 

Lp
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 03:25:44 PM »
Bless you all, you're sweethearts.

In a roundabout way I am saying that forgiveness is a response... forgiveness releases us.
As a Christian, I believe that what you sow, you reap - I understand you have a different, yet similar view of this.

Yes I think we share this view - and fwiw I do take Hinduism quite metaphorically, not concretely. Though for the next little while I might step carefully over the silverfish...  ;)

After all, how does one deal with the declining health of a "loved" one who has been so brutal to you personally?
You don't need to subject yourself ever to abuse.
Forgiving them doesn't mean you need to interact with them but will free you from spending energy on their lack of tolerance and understanding.

This is the crux, isn't it? I don't really know how forgiveness happens, until after it does; no force of mine seems to bring it on. I forgave my H, and thought that was enough. I forgave my sister for still wishing to bludgeon my H; and thought that was enough. My H has (mostly) redeemed himself; his parents have emphatically not. I felt fine when I could simple walk away from them, avoid them, and count myself free. It feels entirely unfair of the world to ask me now to forgive my FIL  >:(   

But isn't that the way of it? So many lbs's on this site come daily face to face with a partner whom they'd rather not cross the road to pour water on if they were on fire; but because shared children, they manage with grace. H's ornery aging parents are a reality, however much I may wish to wash my hands immediately after I set eyes on them. So I need also to find (a modicum of) grace. No fixing, no martyring; not necessarily even forgiving. Just a little grace that I can live with. And yes, forgiveness for myself for being imperfect, human, and unwilling to bend lest I break.

Take the plant skeletons outside to what will become a flower or bush in a few months, and spread the remains in the dirt, allowing them to nourish future beauty. It's a meditation in itself when we allow something to die so something new can be reborn.

This. So much this. I'll have to wait a few months yet for that wise ritual, we're still under a foot of snow up here  ;D  But in my garden, during the worst of it when my H was trying to throw me out of our house, I planted peonies - they call 'em 100-year flowers, because they hate being transplanted but will live forever in their soil once rooted. I thought, even if H manages to get rid of me, he'll still have my peonies and won't know why I'm smiling 8) . Come spring, I'll quietly bury these MIL plant bits under those peonies. Let some good come of all of it. Rebirth is inevitable, isn't it?
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 07:25:32 PM »
Forgiving means different things to different people. If a person defines it as "To cease to feel resentment" then they choose whether they still want to feel resentment. Choosing to feel resentment could be harmful to yourself. But if a person defines it as "Granting a pardon", then no harm to yourself should you choose to never forgive.

To me, I could let go of the resentment, yet never feel obliged to pardon the person. And I might take care of that person anyway, not due to compassion, but because it's the right thing to do. I feel like that would grant me higher than silverfish status on my next go round. Maybe amphibian level.

We do what we need to do, when we need to do it, in our own time. It can't be rushed.

When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 08:37:02 PM »
Another following along, osb.

Forgiveness is not easy. It comes in waves and it takes time.

I am sory to hear how badly your in-laws treated you.

Hugs,

A

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 03:07:18 PM »
Flew out to the mountains to spend a couple of days with H. We went skiing (ok, he skied, I fell downhill in some slightly controlled but inelegant manner). Went out for dinner. Talked. H is slowly facing up to his parents' looming mortality, but still gets tense thinking that he may have to change his mountain climbing plans because of it. There's a stubborn streak of "I can have it all" magical thinking involved (I acquit H of selfishness only because he will change his plans, just gets all privately agitated that he must). But then life, in case anyone had failed to notify my H of this, is unfair.

Then early this morning, H told me, "You know what makes me happiest? Lying here in the dark, listening to you breathing. I just listen to you breathe. Then I know you're still here. I don't sleep well when you're not here, you make me calm."

So many ways we could have not reached this moment.

Now we're driving home together. Back to the realities of work, deadlines, chemo and mortality, yes. Still some growing up to do; still some cobwebs of self-centeredness to break through. And I can't really be H's talisman of calm, any more than he can be my rock of strength. But still, some gratitude for the light we've found so far.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline riverbirch

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 05:53:58 PM »
How does he expect to hear you breathing if he's not there? Is he planning on staying home?
Me 52
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet
Home 2019,rebuilding

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 06:29:41 PM »
Riverbirch, your guess is as good as mine! ;D  How loud can I breathe??

But apparently he's planning to stay home from now on. At least until his mom's out of danger, and after his certification for work is completed, and he's taken care of things around the house, and.... Well, let's see. 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 06:32:38 PM by osb »
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline BBhelp

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 12:55:25 PM »
Just picture Dory..."Just keep Breathing..." ;)

I had some very hurtful and dreadful days with my in laws when we married. So bad that we didn't speak for years...Things that were said by MIL were unforgivable (at the time).  Over the years as our kids came they saw what they were missing and made efforts to try and fix things.  Eventually my MIL and I had a very difficult but necessary talk and buried the hatchet somewhere other than my scalp.  It took years...but we healed and got along well when she passed. 

I'm not sure you will have that kind of time to heal those wounds...but just remember that you only carry that baggage as long as you want.  You cannot change him...his attitude or his outlook. He is who he is.  What you do with him and how you treat him is up to you.  I have often said that being the LBS is testament to constantly being the bigger person...to forgiving the unforgivable...and learning to be strong, constant and above all...Patient.  You clearly posses the hard earned skills to handle this.

You got this.

BB 
First Thread:  Back After A Long Break http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8080.0

Random Thoughts From Hard Earned Lessons: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8194.0

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 02:00:40 PM »
Just journaling, cuz a conversation on another thread made me all thinky, but I don't want to derail that thread so I'll think aloud here.

Life at home is quiet. I believe MIL is ok, though I have no contact; H came home and then disappeared again for a week, think he'll be back tomorrow. I am not holding my breath (or breathing loudly ;D ). He can get his act together whenever he's ready.

The thread on 'demonic possession' brought up MLC as a manifestation of evil, of a malevolent force at play in the universe balanced against the good. That's a very Judeo-Christian concept of course, and I can see that as a valid explanation for the unexplainable. But the world view in which I was brought up, there is no such thing as the devil (god yes, anthropomorphized or not, interventionist or not, varies; devil no). It's I suppose a non-binary, relativist viewpoint. All living beings start out intrinsically good. What harm we cause, and what evil we manifest, all arises out of our own individual souls. No means to exteriorize it, to chalk it up to the devil's temptation and absolve oneself by appealing to god. No, you did that, so you own that; nobody influenced you, the idea came out of your own head. And it's an unwashable blot on your soul, until you make restitution by good acts. Can be a harsh shore to shipwreck your psyche on.

That does leave me lost and scratching my head. I can't view my H's inexplicable MLC actions as anything other than volitional. And I can't explain it. He can't explain it. I can't keep asking him WHY? From H's perspective, there is no why available. Why would a person suddenly behave in a way that contravenes his morals, his values, his personal sense of honour, and then a couple of years later decide to give all that up and come home? Yes yes I subscribe to the theory that MLC is a disorder of neurological function; but as they say flippantly in the emergency room, "if all these folks are running around hearing voices, why can't they hear a voice telling them to be quiet and get a job??"  Why couldn't H's mental dysfunction have taken the form of obsessive model ship building, say, or a tic in his right eye? Why did it have to deliberately harm me?

I can pacify myself by saying maybe there was something I (and H?) needed to learn in this life, that required going through this experience. But the explanation for evil (or at least bad behavior, if I won't dignify it with the term evil) is still waiting for an answer. And I think somewhere in there is the key to a return of trust.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 02:03:15 PM by osb »
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 03:32:06 PM »
Catching up, osb.

Good to know your husband plans to be home and around for his mother.

Is there a good and an evil force? Maybe be, maybe not. But I don't think the evil, or less good one, has anything to do with possession or demons. For me, the less good force comes from some imbalance or a birth genetic/neuroligic/biologic problem. Problem for which, for now, medicine and science have no solution.

Think paedophiles or psychopaths, whose "evil" seems to come from a brain misswiring. I think those people were born like that. No one wants to be born a paedophile or psychopath do they?

And one cannot say that there is anything good in being one of those two things, can one? So, why does nature allow for people to be born that way? What process, during pregnancy and/or phœtus formation lead to those things? I don't know, but it must be something, that, hopefully, one day science will be able to master and to use to help those people.

... but as they say flippantly in the emergency room, "if all these folks are running around hearing voices, why can't they hear a voice telling them to be quiet and get a job??"

Because the voices are on a different frequency, from a different world and in a different tone than the one saying "be quiet and get a job"?

The neurological changes caused the bad behaviour. Right?  :) That is the explanation. Just like with post-partum depression or peri-menopause. How many women become totally different beings when going through one of those things? And many come back to normal once those troubled periods are over.

I see MLC as similar to post-partum depression and peri-menopause. Hormones and every other chemical wreaking havoc, causing deep personality change, and leading to a million strange things that can disrupt the best of marriages/relationships.

I know, I know, I am trying to use logic and make sense of something that has none.  ::) ::) ::)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Velika

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2017, 04:47:46 PM »
I mentioned this on my own thread, but I went to an exhibit of the Ramayana in art. The exhibit noted that in many ways Ramayana is the story of the psyche, of all humans' internal and external journey.

Around the same time, I was also reading "Be Here Now." Central to this story is Neem Karoli Baba, devotee to Hanuman, and considered by some to be the living embodiment of Hanuman.

The antagonist of the Ramayana is Ravana, a demon with ten heads. I was struck by this, as isn't battling ourselves -- battling our own minds -- battling our MLCer -- our MLCer battling himself -- this very same challenge? As an LBS we are suddenly in a battle with ourselves, to transcend this experience, achieve wholeness, while also enduring an external onslaught from our "MLCer" and his many manifestations.

I have reflected many times how Hanuman is also the answer to this. Holding others in our hearts, being devoted to others. Even Rama and Sita in this story have imperfect ending, but Hanuman by holding them in his heart shoes perfect devotion. It is a beautiful idea!

Maybe what we see as evil is fragment, fracture; what is good is whole. I went to a spiritual guide recently who told me that it was important to remember that below everything is love.

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 05:43:13 PM »
Anjae, you're quite right, none of this makes sense, and I keep trying to press it into the mold of some kind of sense, to make it fit ::) . There's this little piece of my mind that's still hoping 'if I can make perfect sense of why this happened, then it won't happen again'. Which is of course magical thinking. H keeps swearing, "it's all done now, it'll never happen again, I promise", and I haven't the first idea why he thinks so. A week before BD, he said he loved me. Same happened to every one of us. If I didn't remember that, I might better trust this.

I mentioned this on my own thread, but I went to an exhibit of the Ramayana in art. The exhibit noted that in many ways Ramayana is the story of the psyche, of all humans' internal and external journey.

Maybe what we see as evil is fragment, fracture; what is good is whole.

Fascinating thought Velika. What is good is whole; conversely, what is whole, feels good. We just have to get ourselves to the point that we feel whole unto ourselves, rather than a fragment of a pair.

I always disliked the Ramayana because it seemed Rama went and had a MLC at the end of the story! Won the war, got everything he wanted, then abruptly accused his wife of cheating, threw her out, made a golden replacement and went on with his merry life, while his wife raised his children in poverty!  >:(   Some blinkin' role model....  Mind you, what always felt perfect to me was Sita's response at the end, when he comes to find her years later: I don't need you. I am whole. The earth will take me back.

Saw a brilliant one-woman theatre production years ago, "Sita's Daughters". Started with the Ramayana story, then fast forward to the present day, a collage of newspaper stories of sexual abuse, loss, power struggles, and each of us are Sita's daughters. We are whole. Perhaps this time, we do not need to sink into the earth.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 06:31:16 PM »
Maybe what we see as evil is fragment, fracture; what is good is whole.

Interesting idea, Velika. I think it makes sense.

H keeps swearing, "it's all done now, it'll never happen again, I promise", and I haven't the first idea why he thinks so.

osb, I dare say, because your husband knows it will never again.

Speaking as someone that has a crisis of her won, the person knows when it is over and that it is not going to happen again. The lessons were learned. This may be what HS calls closing of the doors, once they are all closed, no more MLC.

I cannot tell you how I know it will not happen again, but know I know. 3 years ago? 2 years ago? Probably still not certain, now I am. It will not happen again.

Your husband is, most likely, feeling it inside himself, he knows it will not happen again.

You know, I think our MLCers did not lie when, a week, or a day, before BD, they said they love us. They did (they do). But they also know they are messed up and that what is messing them up is going to take them through some very crazy paths.

There is sense in their decision to leave, or be less close to us. Who on earth wants their spouse to know/see the stuff MLCers get themselves into? Who on earth would want to be married to the MLCer? No one.

After BD and OW1 has been made public, I asked Mr J why and what was going on. His only explanation for what was going on was that he needed to do "this", that he only had "now". As for OW1, she was who he needed at the time. It had nothing to do with me, not loving or not being in love with me. He still loved me and was still as in love as in day 1.

I believed it had nothing to do with me and that he was still in love with me. Had a little more trouble with the still love me. But, by then, and for a good while after, I could not understand why OW1 was who Mr J needed. It is true, she was. I could never provide what she did, I am not her, we are very different.

Mr J MLC needs and ways required someone that was not me. I think the same is valid for OW2, she is what is needed. I could would no do. Not because I am less, no, because I just don't do to fill Mr J MLC needs or to put up with his MLC persona and behaviour.

As Mr J slide deeper and deeper into MLC, OW1 also soon found out she could not put up with his MLC self. She left. She was not longer suited for the next phase of his journey. But OW2 is, and has been for many years.

Of course now, on year 11, all this is very easy and very clear for me. As you know, it was not always the case. Because, no matter how much we know intellectualy about MLC, emotionally things are, and should be, very different.

Is it easier for me, that have had a crisis of my own, to end up understanding some things about MLC? Maybe. At least, Mr J and I also have that in common, we both had crisis. Mine was less severe and caused far less damages than his. But I cannot say what would had happened if when I had mine we were still a couple. Would I had left? Would I have had OM? I don't know. Would my crisis had happened if Mr J didn't had his? Somehow, I think so.

Can you ask your husband why he says/thinks it will never happen again? Would be interesting to know his why.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 06:35:05 PM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Velika

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 06:49:33 PM »

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2017, 08:13:09 PM »
Thanks Velika!  There have been a number of feminist retellings of that story; here's one dance theatre version I actually danced in myself, almost 25 years ago (though fwiw there's nothing identifying about this webpage, it's recent and I'm not there ;) )
http://www.thedancecurrent.com/video/menaka-thakkar-dance-company-sitayana

And first staged around the same time, this was the theatre production 'Sita's Daughters' that just blew my mind...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/art-and-culture/10-years-later-mallika-sarabhai-back-with-sita-s-daughters/story-k7mvgqnzLCtgKRTdibK74O.html

The feeling of absolute gut-foundering shock that comes near the end of the Ramayana story never gets better. It's BD, after all. Writ large with demons and emperors and all, but from Sita's perspective, just BD.

Anjae, you are undoubtedly right that my H knows he's done with MLC. I'm almost not concerned with his knowing, as much as I am with my knowing... which is really my own problem, no? My own doubt, my own sense of unnecessary foreboding. It waxes and wanes. Sometimes, I don't think about MLC at all for a whole week. OK, maybe three days....
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 05:17:44 PM »
I'm almost not concerned with his knowing, as much as I am with my knowing... which is really my own problem, no?

I think the answer is both, yes and no. It, of course, your problem and something for your to work on. But know that you are reconnecting and becoming a normal, non-MLC couple, it is also a couple's issue. At least, if, somehow, your not knowing puts a dent, or prevents, a more full and deep connection.

No sure if I am making sense...
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 05:03:15 AM »
Attaching 😀
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 05:58:37 PM »
Spent last couple of weeks on call, a week of that working in the newborn ICU. Worst week I've had there in recent memory. Almost no sleep (at my age, that's getting difficult, of itself). And soooo many painful conversations. So much death. I finished the stint just reeling with fatigue and emotional exhaustion. And on my first evening off, got a call from my colleague asking if I'd come back to talk with a family I'd developed a trust relationship with, because their baby wasn't doing well and they didn't seem to trust anyone else who told them that.

There are days I don't think I can handle this job anymore. The only way I know to counsel, to develop trust in extremis, is to open myself up to the wash of pain from the family with whom I'm communicating. Sounds phony, surely it's not my pain; but for those moments, it's shared pain, so we can relate on a human level, and reach a conclusion together (do we carry on? should we stop? is this therapy futile? or is there yet a glimmer of hope?). MBIB has described being an empath, and I think I may share some of those traits (perhaps MBIB, this is why we're both in health care?). My colleagues usually keep some distance in these kinds of conversations, so a patient's pain doesn't touch them personally; but when they can't find common ground with a family they call on me. By the end of a week shift, I feel bludgeoned raw. 

Used to be H would complain like crazy about my job (because my phone calls would keep him up all night - mind you, not during his MLC, when H hid far away at night), and if ever I said I was tired, would snarl "you picked this job, I guess you don't need any sleep". This time after the dust settled, H took me to a quiet restaurant for dinner; listened to me recount my stories, said he was proud of me for being the kind of doc who listens at the worst moments; even told me he'd learned from me how to listen with his patients, and he taught that to his students now. This is not the H I remember, even before BD. It has been years since this kind, reflective man showed up. Perhaps something has truly changed, through his MLC.

I'm trying to sign up for a new workshop on 'narrative medicine'. First time I've heard of this - it's supposed to be a way for doctors to receive their patients' stories, hold those stories with dignity and compassion, walk with their patients through illness, and not be destroyed themselves. Guess we're all creatures of narrative, we evolved that way around campfires in the dawn of time, and this HS website too is a testament to the emotional power of personal narrative. Stories can break you; but maybe they can also build you. I'd love to learn this. Have any of you come across this idea? It seems so much like what we do here for each other.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2017, 09:06:28 PM »
Sound like a type of empathetic detachment osb?  Reminds me of the way we need to be with our significant others during MLC and also with our friends on HS, no matter what they decide to do, we need to be supportive and empathetic rather than judgemental. 

I'm sure a little eye rolling in the quieter moments is still allowed ;D

My daughter was a 816 gram, 24 week gestation premmie so I know what the parents are going through and the doctors and nurses of NICU were amazing. 

I think they also learned a lot from the parents of these babies as well.  I have been told there is a picture of myself and my daughter in the NICU as I was also a premature baby and born at the same hospital 34 years apart.  It was a hard road for me with my daughter due to the amount of time she spent in hospital.  The bonding process doesn't seem to be easy for many of us sadly :'(

I thank you for your wonderful work and I can still remember the staff who looked after my daughter and almost every word they said and it's been 21 years since her birth.  She's as stubborn as a mule, I am sure due to her prematurity and will to live.

Sadly, due to MLC, the gift that just keeps on giving, I haven't seen my daughter for over two years now as she sided with her father and he moved her away from her "crazy mother".  Sigh........

"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2017, 10:42:21 AM »
Like Savoir Faire said, maybe a kind of empathetic detachement? It does sound a lot like what we do here.

Glad to know your husband had a very positive, and different than before his crisis, reaction. 
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »
Haven't been around for a long while. Did lurk intermittently, but had computer problems and the website got hard to read on my phone (whatever else is visibly aging or not, my eyes sure are!), and then kind of got out of the habit... odd feeling, to not need to be checking in every few days, but in a way it's a form of graduation. My training wheels are coming off; I got this sorta-purplish thing (most of the time).

Anniv 5 of BD came and went. 3 years since H barged back home half cooked; perhaps 2 years since I turned my icon lavender, about a year into actually believing it. The main residual emotion is one of regret - such a bleeding waste of time, the past 5 years were!! Did we have so many extra years of life planned, that H could afford to throw away a few just to have a midlife meltdown (that he now assiduously pretends he forgot all about)? And why pick these years? Perhaps if I were ninety and demented I wouldn't have cared (or noticed?) if H rattled off (though just how far he'd get, rattling and crotchety, is another question altogether at ninety). At 44 it was catastrophic. At nearly 50, now I just feel I've ridden out the whitewater, and seriously deserve a few miles of calm. If there are more rapids in store, dangit I'm abandoning the raft. ...And if there's a metaphor I haven't mixed in that rant, kindly don't remind me.

H and I are going climbing next month - for the first time in about 6 years (yup, just before BD; after that the hamlet in the mountains became H's run-away place, and I was strictly prohibited). It'll be my first visit to the scene of the crime. Home of some of H's old bad influences, and some of his worst learning experiences. H seems sooo excited at the dubious prospect of hauling my sorry carcass up a rock wall (maybe it's the rappelling back down? ??? maybe he thinks I'll turn into Wonder Woman and fly?). He insists I'd be easier to teach than anyone else he's led, "because you're way mentally tougher than anyone else I know". Flattering, albeit unconvincing  ::)  but I'm looking forward to the trip nonetheless. A form of reclaiming, perhaps. A chance to build some new  memories - for H as well as myself. The mountains are simply stone-faced witnesses; they didn't lure H into bad behavior, they didn't cause H to go crazy and try to off himself by soloing without a rope... they just stood endlessly by, and watched H's saga unfold like so many unmoored seekers before him. So now they can just stand by and watch H try to renormalize his life and memories - and if that effort requires that I rustily remember how to climb a blinkin' mountain, well then, so I will.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Slow Fade

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »
Quote
Anniv 5 of BD came and went. 3 years since H barged back home half cooked; perhaps 2 years since I turned my icon lavender, about a year into actually believing it. The main residual emotion is one of regret - such a bleeding waste of time, the past 5 years were!! Did we have so many extra years of life planned, that H could afford to throw away a few just to have a midlife meltdown

Anniv 5 for me too OSB, and I can really relate to the above. Must be a script for their return as well!  ;) ;D
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2017, 03:58:08 PM »
Thank you for your update, osb.

Glad to know things keep improving between you and your husband.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Mae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2017, 09:54:52 PM »
Wonderful update, beautifully written, funny and interesting.
Me: 50
H: 40
S19, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Silent and non-communicative

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2017, 04:54:42 PM »
Welcome back!  Thanks for the update.  I'm always interested to hear from those reconnecting.
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline Thunder

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2017, 05:36:23 PM »
Hi osb.

Sounds like you a struggling a bit here.

I don't know your whole story but your H is back and you are not getting the answered you needed, am I right?

That's hard but I honestly do believe a lot of them honestly don't remember all that happened.
It may take him some time to understand this whose thing.

Give him some time.

Eventually you do need him to remember the hurt and the pain he caused you.
It just may be too painful for him right now.

Is it fair?  Nope, but with patience and time you may get the answers you need.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2017, 11:17:53 AM »
SF, Mae, Anjae, FW - hi back!

Thunder, I'm not sure if I'm struggling or not. For the most part I feel quite peaceful. Once in a while I look back at the mess that lies behind me, and wonder why it still sticks to the soles of my shoes. I just have to keep on walking forward, and sooner or later my footprints will be clean.

This is perhaps more my issue than my H's. H is just being inarticulate - at one point he had promised me he would try to find words for his feelings; but as time has gone on, those words have evaporated, and H is more emotionally inarticulate than ever. Any direct reference to events five years ago results in a silent but wide-eyed strangled look, followed by deflection. But H substitutes hugs (er, like that's some form of currency that I trust? I got hugs before BD too, dude!), and texts me lots of emojis  ??? ::)  ...and I try not to grab his tongue with pliers, because words can wait. It's a détente.

The growing peace comes from little things. Changing bedclothes the other day (lifting mattresses being easier with two sets of hands), H commented that the mattress has developed two divets in it (from two bodies sleeping on their habitual sides of the bed, I suppose), and asked didn't I sleep in the centre of the bed when he was gone? Actually, I never did; that somehow felt like I was acknowledging to myself that H wasn't coming back, so I couldn't quite bring myself to do it. Stayed in my usual lump, with untouched space off to my right (I guess I was standing in my sleep?  ??? ). While H wandered the mountains or lurked in the guest room. For some years.  At this news H teared up... and gave me a hug, inarticulate as ever. But it was a nice hug.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Velika

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2017, 09:04:47 PM »
osb, I love to read your thoughtful updates.

I was thinking, it is easy for our lives to become so defined by MLC that we come to think of it as an exception to other periods of our lives. I can see how this last two years has been a waste in some ways for me. I can think of many things I missed out on and lost. But I have to admit that there have been other wasted periods of my life too, for different reasons. And maybe where I did not learn or grow so much.

{Also, what if life purpose is truly meant for the development of the soul? Maybe in this outlook, MLC is a profound and important part of our lives and spiritual journey?}

Terrified that my son would view his life or himself as permanently damaged from this experience, I told him at some point that the reason he is so smart is that he spent the first week of his life in the NICU, and hooked up to the many tubes and machines forced his mind to expand and grow smarter from the get-go. I told him in this same way, the suffering he is going through now is making him more conscious person, able to feel deeper empathy and connect to others more meaningfully.

Perhaps most shocking thing about this is that it seems to be true.

I wonder sometimes if we are all connected, if our experiences when painful are simply a part of the natural world that we don't quite understand and can't see, at least not yet.

Climbing sounds amazing! Stay safe, big hug.

Offline Shocked

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2017, 06:52:24 AM »
Attaching osb, your journey is inspiring.
osb, I love to read your thoughtful updates.



{Also, what if life purpose is truly meant for the development of the soul? Maybe in this outlook, MLC is a profound and important part of our lives and


This struck me as I look for the purpose of this pain. I truly hope you continue to find a life has purpose without pain being the teacher!!!!
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline Mae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2017, 04:49:20 PM »
I found that when my H couldn't articulate what had happened and tried to pick up where he had left off.....and yes complete with extra hugs and loving as if that made up for everything, stuff festered within me for ages and ages. I needed him to explain it to me without realising that if he couldn't make sense of it himself, how could he articulate it to me. For them stuff happened, stuff ended, they went back to normal, no explanation needed.

I not only needed to understand and make sense of what happened but I also wanted him to understand how it affected me. I never really got that and here I am third time around and hoping things will be different....and they are sort of.

You do sound as if you accept how your R is now OSB.
Me: 50
H: 40
S19, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Silent and non-communicative

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2017, 09:31:29 PM »
Also, what if life purpose is truly meant for the development of the soul? Maybe in this outlook, MLC is a profound and important part of our lives and spiritual journey?

I love this thought, Velika. Being eastern by origin, my mind gravitates to this: there is something my soul needs to learn, in each life. In this life, apparently I needed to learn this. And maybe I still don't know what this is, and there's more learning yet to come. Please, let it be of the non-painful variety! But even if that's what comes, I can handle pain now. I will grow regardless. I have a pine tree in the front yard that got sadly frost-chewed in its first few winters; stunted, survived, grew sideways, and now it's thriving in the gnarliest of shapes, it's the most interesting looking tree. I shall grow interesting also.

And if anyone ever thought that our musings are not being read... well, after my story about the mattress divets, all I see flashing below the webpage are advertisements for 'Buy Best Canadian Mattress'...! At least Big Brother's reading along!  ;D
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Velika

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2017, 12:00:30 AM »
I have a pine tree in the front yard that got sadly frost-chewed in its first few winters; stunted, survived, grew sideways, and now it's thriving in the gnarliest of shapes, it's the most interesting looking tree. I shall grow interesting also.

My impression is that you are graceful and lovely as well as interesting.💛

Quote
And if anyone ever thought that our musings are not being read... well, after my story about the mattress divets, all I see flashing below the webpage are advertisements for 'Buy Best Canadian Mattress'...! At least Big Brother's reading along!  ;D

Welll you know LBS is a fast-growing market everyone is anxious to corner. (I once actually got an ad for love potion on this site 😂)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 12:01:44 AM by Velika »

Offline riverbirch

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2017, 02:27:41 AM »
Our bd was Oct. 2012. Mines not as far as your h. Stubborn to the core. He lost his dad too a few years ago,which he was not close to.

We use to go camping in our junky old camper before bd. The summer before he left was the worse time. He was drinking and cranky. I could do nothing right. When he left he lived in a truck camper in a garage bay,he rented for a business. I use to think at some point in our life we would be going camping on a regular basis. Who knows now. Right now we can't afford much. There are so many bad memories associated with it. I'd have to get through those. I met his hag in his camper,for the first and only time,when I went to leave him with a pile of accumulating mail,which included notices about losing our house.

I guess we have to face our fears or memories to get through them.

I too only slept on my side of the bed. My small gs would sleep on his side sometimes or my little min pin. I just couldn't do it. It felt wrong. Most nights I was curled up in a ball anyway just hugging a pillow.
Me 52
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet
Home 2019,rebuilding

Online Whyus

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2017, 02:43:51 AM »
I too only sleep on my side of the bed. I couldnt imagine sleeping on Ws side. Ws dogs sleep on her side but mostly end up on my side as the night rolls on.
One is a mini Yorkshire Terrier and I love her to bits. She normally ends up behind my head on my pillow or infront of me. She really makes the most of being small and cute  ::)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2017, 09:14:16 PM »
Every so often I get a trigger moment. Even now.

H was heading to the mountains, and was doing his usual pre-climbing frenzy, it was becoming all he could talk about. I was working all the days leading up to his departure - had one evening off, and the weather was beautiful - so miraculously H agreed to go out for dinner. Bagged a pleasant table on a patio. Ate, drank, talked, laughed. Fell a little bit more in love with my H; he hadn't been this light of spirit for so long.

The very next day, H insisted he'd had a lousy time, he doesn't like going out for dinner, "that's your thing, not mine; I just went along to humor you." Prefers going to the mountains; mountains are better. I just about flayed him. If he doesn't enjoy time with me, I refuse to be humored >:(  just kindly go climb your dang mountains and don't bother coming back! H eventually backpedalled.

After a lot of thinking... I see two currents underlying this: [1] H's reluctance was more about H than about me. He's not at his usual mountaineering fitness level, so in his pseudo-Calvinist way H felt guilty about enjoying himself, taking in extra calories, not being "good enough for the mountains" like body mass is some kind of test of virtue (yup, he said this :o  is having huge body image issues). So H felt he had to drastically repudiate the whole idea of enjoying himself at a restaurant - and hurt me in the process, so I wouldn't want to invite him to excess calorie intake again  ::)   [2] I can't trust what I perceive as genuine caring and enjoyment in my H, if he's going to disavow it within 24 hours. Which means I can't trust his love / relationship / presence... you may imagine I was right back at BD in my head, and responded accordingly.

These two currents don't easily co-exist, because they reflect problems rattling around inside our own heads. H's body image issues colour our current relationship way more than they should, precluding intimacy, sometimes precluding kindness. My fear to trust is real, and my H triggers that fear regularly by being self-absorbed. Resolving his MLC does not seem to have resolved this problem.

I'm just a bit sorry I let my guard down enough to see H's happy self, and trust it to be love. OK it's love, but under a huge layer of self-absorption. H has blithely offered to take me out for dinner when I visit him in the mountain hamlet, as though he's going to fix everything that way. Sigh.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Thunder

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 03:44:52 AM »
osb,

I just read through your thread.  I think you have such a knack for writing, you must have been an author (authoress  :P) in another life time.

I love your story and see a lot of us in it.  Maybe our H's were twins.  ha ha

Mine is very much into nature and finds himself in it.  Whether it's camping, hiking, backpacking or just walking in the woods.  He is not a very social person so going out to eat is not so enjoyable to him either.  He's happier cooking over a campfire.

Anyway, I think eventually he is going to wake completely up and see all he really needs to be happy is you. (may not give up the mountains though   :))

I felt his love for you in his statement about being the happiest having you near him and listening to you breathe.  That says a lot.

Mine made a similar statement one time.  I had been over quite a bit one week and said something like...maybe I was there too much.
His answer was..No I like you here.  When I asked why he said..because when you're here things a light and fun.   :o
Made me wonder what things were like when I wasn't there.  Dark and gloomy?? ::)

Hang in there osb.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2017, 10:39:00 PM »
About to jump without a parachute!

Joining my H in his mountain hamlet next week. Turns out we'll be staying in the same house he stayed during most of his MLC, renting a room from one of H's worst MLC cheerleaders (at least he's promised me she won't be home and I won't have to see her >:( ). Still. Fingernails on a blackboard. Part of me wants to make eye contact with every single one of his erstwhile mountain-climbin' cotton-pickin' MLC cheerleaders, just so they know I'm still here, damn you; part of me rather hopes I don't ever have to set eyes upon 'em. I might take along some pins and voodoo doll fixings, just in case.

Even weirder: H is currently incommunicado, in a remote area (which I understand is currently beset with forest fires, though H is camped above the treeline; last text received from him over a week ago). H doesn't get back in to mountain hamlet until after my flight leaves home, and if he's delayed due to weather/fire, I won't know till after my flight lands and nobody's there. If that's the case, I'm to book into the wee airport hotel and wait for him. This is somehow supposed to be not stressful. So I will fly out, and just see if H shows up... trying to be oh so sanguine (hey, it'll be a spare day all by myself, i can write and relax and eat a decadent hotel breakfast... ok, this is not working).

I felt his love for you in his statement about being the happiest having you near him and listening to you breathe.  That says a lot.

Bless you Thunder, I so hope so. I feel like I'm leaping into the air wondering if anyone will catch me.

On the plus side: working madly trying to finish writing to deadlines before I leave town, and i finally seem to have gotten my technical writing mojo back. Several years of little output (which is kind of hard to explain away... "Sorry, my H turned himself into a glue-sniffing, rage-ridden monster from the black lagoon, my brain became cabbage, hence I haven't written any papers for maybe three years..." um, nope). And now finally it feels like my fog has cleared, and the words are flowing. One manuscript sent out this week; one more to go.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Mae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2017, 01:59:18 AM »
Osb,

I am just starting out towards reconnecting with my H and I'm not sure how long you have been in repair with your H but I can see that this may be a long journey.

I really understand how you were feeling. I'm sort of on a fast track with a returnee who was only a few months gone,  but it's still not fast enough for me.

I think sometimes when do they finally see past their own self-absorption to the beautiful prize that is waiting right there in front of them, yearning to be close, to get to know them all over again, so willing and open to building something wonderful.

I guess he will let me know in his own time, I just hope he doesn't leave it too late.
Me: 50
H: 40
S19, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Silent and non-communicative

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2017, 05:30:56 AM »
Osb,

I hope this getaway is healing for both of you!

It definitely sounds nerve-wracking, though :o

Looking forward to hearing about this leap into the unknown  ;)

 
M 57
H 57
S 27
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2017, 02:47:15 PM »
A trip to the ice capped mountains, with occasional forest fires. Kind of a battle-of-ice-and-snow MLC metaphor? But it was all very peaceful, really.

H was at the airport waiting for me, all cleaned up and smiling. Apparently he didn't really think I'd show up (after buying a plane ticket, are ye daft?). First two days, we went on hikes, and if ever my visible enthusiasm waned for even a moment, this Eeyore-like glumness would show up. Could see thoughts running like tickertape over H's forehead, "That's it, she doesn't like the mountains... she'll never come back, it's all ooovvveerrrr..." and I'd have to figuratively whap him upside the head and buck him up (or maniacally cheer up, so he couldn't see anything to feel glum about - that worked less well, so I quit faking it). Finally H got his wires uncrossed, and started to enjoy the time together. By the end of the week, he was quite relaxed. Hence so was I.

I had one nasty BD nightmare, staying at H's old MLC haunts; and a few minor triggers. H carefully played it light, no deep talks, but kept up a stream of chatter, "Shall I tweak your nose now? Just to remind you I'm the H that loves to tweak your nose? Who will always be around to tweak your nose, whether you need nose tweaking or not?", that sort of thing until the triggers dissipated from sheer silliness. And I made sure H's mountain hamlet is now full of his memories of me... just let him try to run away from those  ;)

Then H decided he'd show me how to climb rock. So we tried out a short stretch, him leading and me scrabbling along behind on a rope; then a longer bit the next day; and then I climbed 210m up a limestone cliff, and rappelled down. Didn't lose it. Was stronger than H expected, mentally and physically (maybe stronger than I had expected). Felt damn proud of myself.

There are trust exercises, those sort of corporate team-building things, where you fall backwards and have to trust your colleagues to catch you. They're usually utterly useless. But as a trust exercise, this week in the mountains with H actually worked. Not because I was expecting him to catch me. Actually because I learned how well I could catch myself. That spills over into a whole wealth of metaphors. H stays in the mountains for another fortnight, I had my week of fun and came home to pick up at work. But I feel very relaxed and floating just now, like the last five years were nothing, really; nothing I can't handle. 
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline kikki

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2017, 03:59:38 PM »
 :)

Offline Seeing The Light

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2017, 04:57:14 PM »
Hi osb, following along on your journey.
"Nothing others do is because of you.  What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream.  When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering."  - don Miguel Ruiz

The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz
1. Be impeccable with your word.
2. Don't take anything personally.
3. Don't make assumptions.
4. Always do your best.

My Journey: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9093.0

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2017, 05:10:59 PM »
Wonderful update, osb.

Hope thinks keep improving and improving for you and your husband.

 :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2017, 07:06:15 PM »
How amazing we are that the pain of those five years can be put to the background by a lovely time away and some closeness and trust built.

Makes standing worth the effort.  Glad your holiday was so relaxing and H stepped up.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2017, 07:18:04 PM »
So happy to read your update...so happy for you both!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Onward

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2017, 09:42:52 PM »
Thank you for the lovely update, osb.... :)
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2017, 07:41:23 AM »
WoNDERFUL post and update osb! 
Lovely to follow :)
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline calamity

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2017, 02:14:55 PM »
Great 'catch up' osb!

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2017, 03:57:55 PM »
Love you guys  :)

Don't wish to minimize the pain of the past five years, by saying the weight is lifting off my shoulders now. It was a helluva weight, and each gradual gram of relief is palpable. I wouldn't say the MLC experience disappears, ever. My reactions are still scarred by it. But it does start to take its place in perspective. I feel stronger, less vulnerable than I once was. There's a song from the 90's, Tubthumper ("I get knocked down - but I get up again - you're never gonna keep me down")...
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Velika

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2017, 06:41:48 PM »
osb, love your writing. Beautiful and hopeful entry.💛

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2017, 09:58:09 PM »
Lovely update osb.

I had Tubthumper in my head this past Sunday morning after Pastor was talking about getting up again after being knocked down.
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2017, 07:04:24 AM »
Really loved your report!

It is one thing I really miss - our sailing together... it really bonded us. As did other activities such as playing racquetball, swimming/snorkeling, riding on the back of his motorcycle...

 :)
M 57
H 57
S 27
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2017, 04:32:34 PM »
Haven't been around for months. That's I suppose part of the trajectory of a resolving crisis, and a slowly but progressively un-discombobulating spouse. I'm feeling more solidly myself, training wheels are off. But once in a while my mind comes back here.

Today for some reason my mind was buzzing around my HS friends, so i came back and caught up on many threads (so many familiar names, lovely to read) - seeing the grace with which each of you are managing both the good and the horrible. It really is an extended family, for which I've been grateful on many dark nights.   

I'm turning 50 tomorrow. Somehow that feels like a massive milestone. H literally ducked out of town on his own 50th (picked up shifts at a hospital out of town, "er, oops was that my birthday? I forgot!", innocently). Ok, guess you're not ready to deal with your own aging I thought. But for me, 50 feels a celebration moment. It's the official moment to toast the breaking of my 'give-a-sh!t-o-meter'. It's very freeing, not to have to care so much - what I look like, what I weigh, how much I make, what people think (most especially the latter). And like most things in life, when you stop caring so much, paradoxically that's when you seem to get back joy in abundance.

H is resolutely refusing to make solid plans - he might take me out for dinner, if he can get around to booking a restaurant (I have my doubts, though he's trying to reflect my want to celebrate). My family is scooping me up for dinner one of these evenings, and there's a surprise party afoot that i'm not supposed to know anything about (my mom mentioned it's organized by my dance troupe, would be a roast, and then refused to leak any more details).

On one level birthdays don't matter in the least - what venal creatures humans are, to recognize each circuit they make of the sun like it's an event the magnitude of the signing of the magna carta or something. But on another level, these days matter. Where there's been such pain, I'm hoarding happiness, as though it pours in droplets from one day to the next, spilling a little between my fingers with each passing night.

Days matter. My father is turning 90. Yesterday he was making a special sweet from the old country for my birthday (only he remembers how, amazing cook that he is), and suddenly, unprecedented, started teaching me the recipe... unspoken reason, he's not sure he'll be around to make it for me again. So remember this day. My grandmother (mother's mother) is turning 100; I'm going to visit her after New Year. She's still sharp, though she no longer has the use of her legs and one eye; her smile is still a miracle of warmth. Each year I visit, I'm sure I'll not see it again. Thinking, these days matter; they're fleeting. One of my closest friends was sitting beside her H on the couch one evening, when she heard him sigh, slump over her shoulder, and die. For years she told me she'd almost rather have her tragedy than mine, because my H was a snarling zombie and hers was just dead. Pain is just pain, there's no scale for it, there's no discerning the relative weight of it. Now my H is reanimated (mostly), and she looks on wistfully, and I feel sad for her.

Truly, the only inexorable thing in life is loss. Each one incremental day, and what happiness it contains, is the only important thing. So I'm turning 50 (18,250 days alive?) and I'm happy indeed. Peace to you all.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Never say never

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2017, 04:45:29 PM »
OSB, I don't think I have posted before, but something drew me to your post.  I want to wish you a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY tomorrow!!!

Crazy, I don't know your story ... or if I do, it's been a long time!!!! ...  You are so lucky!!  Your father turning 90 and making a special treat ... and your grandmother turning 100?

We tend to forget the special treasures we really have.  We sometimes have such pity for ourselves and think no one is going through what we are.  I'll bet your father and grandmother have some pretty interesting stories they could share.

So happy 50th birthday!!! 

Many hugs ... Never  xoxo

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2017, 04:49:44 PM »
Hello osb,

I was thinking about when when posting on the Myers Briggs Type and the LBS thread, and here you are.

Very happy to read you and to know you and your husband are doing well.

Turning 50? CONGRATULATIONS and a merry birthday for tomorrow!  :)

Your grandmother is 100. How wondeful.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Treasur

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2017, 12:30:20 AM »
Happy birthday  :)
And thank you so much for the reminder of how those fleeting moments matter...it is so easy to lose sight of them in the storm of this crisis we all endure and adapt to. The sweet moments of life that are still there if we pause to see them.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2017, 04:08:37 AM »
Happy birthday osb!   Enjoy!
Great to hear from you as always!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline Mary A

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2017, 11:57:22 AM »
Happy bit¡rthday, have a wonderful time !

Wish you the best !
M: 43
H 49
T : 26
BD: April, 2016
EA: discovered March,27, 2017. Lasted for about 6 months.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2017, 11:24:06 PM »
I was just thinking about you yesterday morning and then logged in to find you had posted. It's nice that you stop in, as your support and advice has been a big help to me as I navigate through this. I always keep in the front of my mind about what you said about how they have to eat their shame to come back to us and that constantly shapes how I deal with my H. I am seeing slow but steady progress in him.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2017, 03:47:12 AM »
Happy Birthday OSB!! 
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline calamity

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2017, 07:07:25 AM »
Happy birthday, osb!

Offline Puzzled

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2017, 12:35:19 PM »
Hi OSB,

I very much enjoy reading your posts, thank you for sharing your journey and thoughts.

Best wishes for your birthday!!

Puzzled
Me: 47 (43 at BD1)
H: 53 (48 at BD1)
D: 10 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, H moved abroad
August 2018: Received divorce papers in the mail unexpectedly

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2017, 02:52:44 PM »
Happy Birthday Osb.  You’re just a spring chicken in your family!  One that now has secret recipe powers  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline Shocked

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2017, 05:36:16 PM »
Happy 50 Birthday Osb!!!! 🎂🎈🎉🎁🎊
I hope it’s your best one yet!!!! I’m sure it will be your fabulous 50s!!!
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2017, 10:15:21 PM »
Happy birthday, OSB!  Thank you for coming back and posting.  It is always heartwarming to read about those men that return from the fog.
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline Onward

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2017, 10:09:36 PM »
Happy birthday, OSB!  I'm so pleased to see your update and that you are doing well.
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Mary A

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2018, 04:26:28 PM »
Happy birthday! I hope you keep on doing so well!
M: 43
H 49
T : 26
BD: April, 2016
EA: discovered March,27, 2017. Lasted for about 6 months.

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2018, 09:35:03 PM »
A question I'm not sure I'll ever learn how to answer: Why did you take your H back?

My cousin asked me this, in a bustling restaurant when the chance of a well-considered response was limited, and my sister (who still hates my H) was glowering at me for even talking about my marriage. Cousin asked the question, then said, "I guess you just wanted that marriage, and were ok to settle. i mean, people can become co-dependent and all. But what did he do, for you to take him back?" A little later, "But weren't you bitter?"

I don't know the answer to why. I mean, you guys on HS know, but how to explain to the world? I'm not bitter. I did want my marriage. But only because my H had evolved into a better version of himself - one i could trust. But how to say that, and not hear the inevitable dismissal, the silent devaluing of me and my personal integrity or independence, because I did the unusual thing and forgave?

I know I don't actually have to answer this question; but I'd like to. And I'd like to give a better answer than I gave, stammering in my own defense. My H did a terrible thing, it's true; but to have slid headlong three-quarters of the way into hell, then reversed and hauled himself back out again... surely there are some points to him for that? And to me, for having developed the mental strength to let it happen?? Maybe there are no points to be handed out here. But at the very least, I'd like to not feel cheapened in the eyes of my family for this journey.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2018, 10:27:13 PM »
I am sorry your family asked those questions in such an inappropriate context.

A question I'm not sure I'll ever learn how to answer: Why did you take your H back?
Not sure that question as an answer. Or a single, simple answer.

But what did he do, for you to take him back?

This one I think it has. He changed, went back to his normal self and become a better version of himself. If people are going to understand, that is another matter.

My H did a terrible thing, it's true; but to have slid headlong three-quarters of the way into hell, then reversed and hauled himself back out again... surely there are some points to him for that? And to me, for having developed the mental strength to let it happen?? Maybe there are no points to be handed out here.

True. But I don't think it is a question of points. The merit exist for going hell, or near hell, and back. And for someone who stuck around the person going there. But it would be equally valid (and points worthy, if you like) for the LBS to have walked away and want nothing more with the MLCer. Isn't because you love your husband, he loves you, he had been in a real bad place but is out of it and you both thought the marriage was worth enough?

quote author=osb link=topic=8726.msg644822#msg644822 date=1516685703]
But at the very least, I'd like to not feel cheapened in the eyes of my family for this journey.
[/quote]

This is a tough one.  And I don't have an answer.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2018, 03:03:50 AM »
''I can understand why you would think I would become bitter. I suppose most people who are put in the situation I was in do. But I did not want to become bitter and angry, and do that to myself. I had to work very hard to learn patience, and forgiveness, and that everything wasn't about me. It took an incredible amount of inner strength for me to get over the pain he caused me. It would have been easier to walk away and start over. But I made a promise for better and worse. It just so happens we had to go through some worse.''

BOOM!  8)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2018, 06:48:36 AM »
It is very difficult for anyone to understand why. Especially our families and friends who have seen the damage that occurred to us, the pain that we were in.

Forgiveness, agape love, understanding of MLC and a change in him into a better version of himself...those are the things that you know osb. Most people will not get it.

But we do. Thank you for sharing with us and helping us to remember that anything is possible.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline BBhelp

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2018, 08:07:52 AM »
''I can understand why you would think I would become bitter. I suppose most people who are put in the situation I was in do. But I did not want to become bitter and angry, and do that to myself. I had to work very hard to learn patience, and forgiveness, and that everything wasn't about me. It took an incredible amount of inner strength for me to get over the pain he caused me. It would have been easier to walk away and start over. But I made a promise for better and worse. It just so happens we had to go through some worse.''

BOOM!  8)

Awesome.

I got asked that...How on earth could you want HER back after what she did?  Like somehow being a Man mad e what she did unforgivable.  And the funny thing is...before MLC I would have said it WAS.  As a matter of fact it was a Stated Point in our marriage that if that happened (Because both her parents DID) I was out of there and would bury her under the weight of it.  She had the same expectations and ground rules for me.  Then came MLC...and "What you knew" went right out the window.

In the end it was that I believed in for better or for worse, that is was my responsibility to safeguard my children and try and give them the best possible result...and most importantly I knew this MLC thing was not my wife...and when she came back I recognized the woman I married and was glad I held on through the hell that was MLC.

Those who knew us best and loved us most don't question why...they knew why because they knew me...and they saw how I changed and benefited from the experience.  They see the same thing in my children and their mother.  They know we were all tested to our limits...but that in the end we all passed.  They see that as a blessing...not weakness or co-dependency. 

Don't let ANYONE question why you do what you do.  Only you know what has happened and is happening in your life and your world.  You know you...that is all that matters.

Stay Strong.

BB
First Thread:  Back After A Long Break http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8080.0

Random Thoughts From Hard Earned Lessons: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8194.0

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2018, 07:47:27 AM »
How dare they question you! 
Judgmental people I guess.  I have no doubt you answered your cousin in a very precise accurate way osb!

I imagine when it happens to them they will finally understand!
Don't give it a second of thought just put your energy into your new H and your new life!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline Slow Fade

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2018, 11:04:54 AM »
Quote
It would have been easier to walk away and start over. But I made a promise for better and worse. It just so happens we had to go through some worse.''

This was my pat answer. I wanted to have business cards made to hand out!  ::)
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2018, 03:51:47 PM »
"It would have been easier to walk away and start over. But I made a promise for better and worse. It just so happens we had to go through some worse.''


A downside to this, Hindu weddings don't include the 'for better or worse' line, so my cousins wouldn't have recognized it  ;)   And to be honest, if my H ever pulls this nonsense again, that would be a worse for which i would not stay. Once is enough; eyes open, I do not think I would enter that slough of despond once again.

What I did say is, "Have you never known someone was unwell, and made allowance for them when they said something hurtful?" My H and I had been friends since we were teens. I knew this monster was not him; I could see all the signs of a major depression, and my training taught me that depression is involuntary. So I decided to wait. If my H (as I previously knew him) reappeared and still asked for a divorce, then I'd believe it; not till then. This was perhaps misguided as a strategy... but I hate even throwing things away that can be recycled; why would I put my H in the trash without an argument?

Turns out my cousin had had postpartum depression, so that reference caught her - "I also said a lot things at the time, I didn't mean; it was the depression talking", she remembered. But it didn't completely convince her.

To my way of thinking, standing isn't an attempt at sainthood. Nor is it an attempt to avoid facing reality. It's an attempt to swim upwards in an avalanche, and not end under the snow. Sometimes that works (through no kindness of the avalanche, force of nature that it is). I won't make apologies for it. I won't guarantee I'd do it again. But I'm so glad I tried.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Mary A

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2018, 05:02:01 AM »
Hi, OSB,

I don't know if it helps but one of the reasons I had to fight for our marriage was understanding, feeling and knowing he was not well at BD or replay. Understanding his pain helped me be more forgiving.
During replay he also told me something that helped me see things in this way. He said "this is not something I'm doing to you". The full understanding of that line helped me through the whole process.

Hugs!
M: 43
H 49
T : 26
BD: April, 2016
EA: discovered March,27, 2017. Lasted for about 6 months.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2018, 12:40:42 AM »

What I did say is, "Have you never known someone was unwell, and made allowance for them when they said something hurtful?" My H and I had been friends since we were teens. I knew this monster was not him; I could see all the signs of a major depression, and my training taught me that depression is involuntary. So I decided to wait. If my H (as I previously knew him) reappeared and still asked for a divorce, then I'd believe it; not till then. This was perhaps misguided as a strategy... but I hate even throwing things away that can be recycled; why would I put my H in the trash without an argument?


I've been thinking about what you said about depression here and on RCR's recent thread. I agree about the major depression. If I leave aside my H's mood, and even his social interaction, he's still got a lot of symptoms that are known to be associated with major depression. Symptoms that have absolutely nothing to do with anyone but him. I get upset about what he is doing sometimes and then when I look at him and see things happening to him or him doing things that are just not normal yet have absolutely nothing to do with our relationship I just say to myself, hey, something overall is not right here and he isn't doing this TO ME. Something has happened TO HIM.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 12:44:57 AM by GonerinGhana »

Offline Thunder

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2018, 12:13:33 PM »
I agree with both of you!

I saw, not only the confusion, but the pain in his face.  He tried the "happy" mask on many times but it never quite fit right.

This was never anything he would have chosen to do....or to feel.
Who in their right mind would?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2018, 01:08:56 PM »
...Something overall is not right here and he isn't doing this TO ME. Something has happened TO HIM.

This was never anything he would have chosen to do....or to feel. Who in their right mind would?

True that. Perhaps this is a part of why any apology to me is so darned long in coming? :o ???   The first apology, truly, is due from my H to himself for blowing up his life. And if he can't bring himself to forgive his own self, how can he get around to asking it of anybody else?  But then, you can't forever live as a cringing mass of protoplasm... so often, my H chooses to forget those years ever occurred, unless circumstances (or me) happen to remind him  ::)
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2018, 01:53:34 PM »
Going to talk about something I never talk about... just to explain the trust issues i tripped over. Few billion years ago I was raped, during university. My H was the best buddy who talked me out of killing myself, the one who listened while I raged and withdrew and cried. He felt like the lifeline that kept me living. Then we started dating. I got too accustomed to that, to having someone strong to lean on... think I turned H into my emotional support animal, all unwitting. After BD, obviously that changed. And after H returned, I had to learn to rewrite all those old neural pathways. To be sufficient unto myself, before reaching toward H. If H had returned fully cooked, I don't think I would've been ready. I would have tripped, and reflexively reached for H to catch me. I needed time, after H came back, to remember that I didn't actually need him.

As a rule I don't much talk about that, but for some reason I did on a thread about Returning... And now the universe decided to explain to me why that memory had popped into my head just then.

A dozen years ago, I wrote a stage play with my sister, which we then turned into a dance theatre piece for our troupe; it was a deconstructed version of a very old legend, and it was about sexual assault. Who gets to talk about it; who tells the truth of it; and to whom does the story belong... shades of #metoo, long before that narrative came out. H of course knew my story, and found the play disturbing; but had my back. Then we restaged it 6 years ago - and were in rehearsals for that show when BD, and my H's MLC took off. Playing the role of a woman trying to retell and reclaim the story of her rape was incredibly traumatic - especially in the months after my H just ripped the bandage off what turned out to be a gaping wound that I had not fully dealt with.

After a number of shaky moments, I got my mojo back. Dealt. Danced the role; and got a standing ovation. I think i wrote about it on HS, back then. Never felt so proud of myself. H didn't see it, of course.

Well, last week my sister and I got the news: the feminist theatre festival in town just selected this production to present. All plays by woman playwrights; and this is the first dance theatre piece they've picked. It's an honour. And... welcome again to the head space of my worst nightmares. Except now, perhaps I have worse, more recent nightmares to choose from. But somehow I feel stronger than this one. Perhaps stronger than all of them. I think I can play this part again, and not feel the threads of nightmare coldly tugging at me.

FWIW my H asked me if he really has to come watch this show - because he just can't see me hurt onstage. I said no; he doesn't need to be there. And that also feels like a big step, for me. I'm good. I can do this. It's funny how the universe suddenly chose to inform me of that fact...
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2018, 05:01:03 PM »
Thank you for such an heartfelt and open post, osb.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OneHotMess

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2018, 06:29:06 PM »
Following
M 40
H 41
Ow 41( his 1st cousin) moved in May 23, 2017, she went back to her husband Oct 2017
Ow moved back with her 2 kids Jan 1 2018 even with courts cutting his visitation with his kids because of it
T-19 yr M-14 yrs
S13 & D8
BD  February 12 2017 & April 22 2017 (signs of MLC since 2015)
I filed for divorce June 2 2017 for protection- final August 9, 2018

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8791.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8948.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9189.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10052.150

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2018, 08:51:43 PM »
OMG, congratulations, osb! What an honour! And how brave of you to not only create such a piece and to dance in it, but to put it out there knowing full well something like this could happen and you would revisit it again and again. It has to be terrifying and satisfying at the same time.

You have all the strength and courage you need. Virtual hugs!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 08:55:33 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2018, 02:47:22 AM »
Good for you osb, I like it too when the Universe gets involved.

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017 then EA
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

Offline Shocked

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2018, 02:58:30 PM »
Amazing osb!!!! Truly congrats on the selection but even more on all your recoveries. What strength and perseverance you have!!!! Sending my applause 👏🏻!!!
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline osbTopic starter

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2018, 03:30:43 PM »
Something happened during the site freeze-up, I thought to post at the time but obvi couldn't; but my mind's still at a standstill.

Grandmum died. 100 years young. So glad I was able to spend time with her last month. Funny how a person could be upon this earth for a century, and yet my first thought on hearing was "No wait, we haven't finished talking yet..."

Age took the use of her legs, most of her ears and one eye; but incredibly perceptive nonetheless. Four years ago when H and I had just first started to reconnect, we visited her in the old country. I didn't say a word to her about the troubles; but I think she saw and knew without words. H doesn't really speak my native language (he follows by tone of voice mainly), so when we were leaving, grandmum pulled together all her English, and beckoned to him. "You - you take care of her. She take care of you"; and she blessed us both. I think that was a turning point, somehow. 

Rest in peace, wise woman. Missed already.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline Slow Fade

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2018, 03:37:14 PM »
Sorry for your loss, osb....... :'(
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2018, 03:51:45 PM »
Osb, she sounds like a special lady. A great age, but a big loss.

Lots of love
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017 then EA
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

Offline Anjae

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2018, 03:55:46 PM »
I am so sorry for the loss of your wonderful and special grandmother, osb.
Hugs
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2018, 08:48:49 PM »
Sorry to hear your sad news Osb.  I am glad you got to have those conversations with her recently.  I am sure if you keep talking to her, you will feel what it is she might have said in return.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline serenity

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2018, 04:25:24 AM »
She sounded a wonderful woman osb and very perceptive 

Sorry you've lost her. I often think of conversations I'd like to have with family that has passed so I just do it now anyway and hope they can hear me or know how I feel

X

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2018, 05:43:38 PM »
So sorry for your loss, osb. 
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Learning to walk the walk
« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2018, 06:00:04 PM »
So sorry for the loss of your Grandmother Osb, you have some lovely memories.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

 

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