[BrenM]

What she doesn't offer is follow up and this is where I think the stories differ and become more revealing. Many of us have observed far more unusual behavior beyond just someone coldly abandoning us. This extends to spending habits, choice of friends, perception of time, treatment of children, work habits, physical changes, and more.

In that regard, I think there is a lot more work to be done and many more questions to answer.

I agree.  She makes good observations but stops there.  I think we all need a bit more understanding and that is what we get on HS.  Key in this quote is

The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.

Delete he never was.

Thankyou calamity 😘.  I was beginning to doubt everything I have believed in MLC for so long. 

I know my husband, Probably better than he knew himself. Everyone did. His family and kids. This person in his body at the moment, controlling his actions now is NOT the man we know so well and love so much.

[UnbrokenLioness]

And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs

[BrenM]

And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs

And this is the first you knew about it?  7 years hey?  Living together for that long and you had no idea.....really?  They are really sad souls.

[lawprofessor]

 
Key in this quote is

The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.

Delete he never was.

In my experience the original quote is accurate as stated when including the "and that he never was."

My view based on experience:

We all like to think we "knew" our husbands thoroughly.  In a sense that is true in that we knew the person he was when he was with us, the person he showed us he was, the person he allowed us to see..  But that is not and was not the sum total of him.  He had secrets big and small.  (That in itself is normal, to have some secrets.  But his secrets were so much more.). We also had and have secrets. 

But if we "knew" them oh so thoroughly, why couldn't we see this coming?  This MLC disaster?  Why do most of the posters express such shock that this happened? 

Its our husbands that are doing the nasty things.  Its not some alien body snatcher or imposter in their bodies.  Its them. 

What we never "knew" is the dark side of them that always existed in them but was for the most part kept under wraps for various reasons.  Facing that, is part of allowing them to own their actions and giving them space to deal with their demons in order to potentially put those demons to rest and find healing.  Failing to accept that is pressure on them to stay the same as they were and simply stuff those demons back under the rug only to trip over them later when they again emerge.  It adds exponentially to the guilt which adds debris that gets in the way of them coming home.  That's a recipe for staying on the MLC rollercoaster indefinitely.  Failing to understand that also allows no room for the true sense of reconnecting and reconciling to happen.  Many MLC authors write that its a new relationship.  It cannot be a new relationship if expectations exist as to "knowing" them oh so well.  It is then that we find out just how much we didn't know them as new (to us) qualities emerge. 

No one should ever be able to say another knows us better than we know ourselves or that we know someone better than they know themselves.  If true, that would mean either we aren't mature and aware adults and so are neglecting our own growth and selfcare or that we are stagnant, an equally unhealthy state.  And in the converse it is a subtle control and arrogance issue to believe anyone could know someone better than they know themselves.  What we know is what we are shown.  People change.  People evolve. Who a MLCer is today is a reflection of seeds that were always in them, dormant and unseen by us but there nevertheless.  Nothing grows without first there being a seed.   

Part of what keeps love alive and fresh is the continual growth of both parties, the surprises big and small. 

Lp

[OffRoad]

And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs

Next week it will be 10 years, the a time frame longer than you were together, then he was never happy. When they are in this state what is current is what always was.

[UnbrokenLioness]

And he also "acted happy for the kids". Really?!

[Not Applicable]

LP-I get what you are saying but I think armed with info about MLC and its typical manifestations we may actually know better the possible reasons for it before our spouses do and can see where they are going with it. For instance, my husband told me about his father's abuse. I have known about it since early in our marriage when my husband explained some of his strange behavior with me in light of the abuse, but then he never brought it up again. I can see how it is playing out especially in his relationship with OW, but in a very different way from how it was with me. But she has NO CLUE about this. And I doubt he is aware too, at least not yet.

[lawprofessor]

Yes, Changing, I agree that once we learn about MLC etc., we may be aware of some broad brush things and possible things that led to or were seeds for the crisis.  But suspecting or being aware of those things is not knowing his secrets in the way he knows and remembers them.  And what they discuss, especially before the crisis, is only the tip of the iceberg.  Its only what they can process at that given time, not the real root which has to do with squaring the emotions of a child with knowledge of a man and true acceptance of feelings and specific memories.  It also has much to do with other aspects and people aside from the direct abuser.  For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse.  Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so.  But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment. 

So knowing his secrets or perhaps more truthfully parts of his secrets is still not knowing all of him.

That the OW has no clue is not important.  Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns.  She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible.  In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern.  She has the correct skills to do that on a base level.  She's a stand in.  It would not be suprising if his mother is a truer source for him as the physical wounds of abuse are not the worst part of abuse so its not necessarily the perpetrator of those that is the origin of the real pain.

Lp

[Passiflora]

For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse.  Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so.  But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment. 

LP,
I value your input on the subject and also mixed with your experience from your line of work.

What you stated in the above is something I think a lot about to day in my healing process, when I work through my FOO. The "only" answer I can come up with is (about why my mother didn't stop the abuse from my father against us children) she was abused by him as well. I don't or can't remember that I witness any physical abuse towards my mum only a lot of emotional/verbal.

The common saying in my country (might be the same around the globe) from police/womens shelter IC/layers in DV is that;
1. The abuser inherited the violence behavior from their father.
2. They will never get cured from this, only worse.
3. There is a huge possibility that their own children will inherited the same abusive behavior. (My IC at the shelter for DV, said that only IF the children has a emotional healthy/a mother who is present for the children the pattern will not be repeated)

My now XH never expressed that he was abused as a child, even if both me and my SIL both saw that H+ his brothers was in a way terrified about their father. SIL witnessed much more violent behavior from him than I did but I know he acted in various violent ways towards different people, when he was stressed out (I'm not in any way justifying his behavior bc he was stressed out nor am I justifying any ones behavior due to stress)

IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?

I know we are trying to put logic thinking into a irrational behavior which is impossible but since your above statement resonate with my own thoughts now a days about why didn't my mother shield us from the abuse herself, why did she let him continue his abusive behavior?

Hugs

[Kintsugi]

IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?

The more I got out of my H about the OW, the more of a pattern I see between her and his mother.  They are both narcissistic and all about them.  Throw in a little Borderline Personality for them both playing victim in any scenario.  I honestly believe my husband has approval and acceptance issues from his evil, wicked mother who was verbally abusive all his life (and continues to be).  I think OW in some aspect reminded him of her and he was seeking the approval and acceptance.  Lucky for me, OW showed her true colors which I firmly believe was H's wake up call.  I also see some type of connections in other people's postings about their own situations.  I think there are unresolved other issues which relate in some way to the OW.