[Velika]

What we never "knew" is the dark side of them that always existed in them but was for the most part kept under wraps for various reasons.  Facing that, is part of allowing them to own their actions and giving them space to deal with their demons in order to potentially put those demons to rest and find healing.  Failing to accept that is pressure on them to stay the same as they were and simply stuff those demons back under the rug only to trip over them later when they again emerge.  It adds exponentially to the guilt which adds debris that gets in the way of them coming home.  That's a recipe for staying on the MLC rollercoaster indefinitely.  Failing to understand that also allows no room for the true sense of reconnecting and reconciling to happen.  Many MLC authors write that its a new relationship.  It cannot be a new relationship if expectations exist as to "knowing" them oh so well.  It is then that we find out just how much we didn't know them as new (to us) qualities emerge. 

I think this is very insightful. I think in many ways what we see is unchecked emotional self. Without going into theories for why it becomes unchecked, I believe too that it is accurate to say that this emotional self (inner child/shadow persona) was always there. I think yes this is also important way to look at it, that we cannot ask them to return to the person they appeared to be because it was not an integrated/healed person.

I had a very interesting chat with a fellow LBS recently. We discussed how once the MLCer projects his anger into the LBS, he is in many ways free to love his parents again. Many of us notice a spouse who was resentful or indifferent to his parents suddenly show a lot of devotion to them after bomb drop.

I am very curious what causes this turning point when the OW/OM becomes the "parent," if this is true.

Passiflora, my MLC-H's mom also did not protect her children from their abusive stepfather. She stayed with him for many years. The father also did nothing.

I find it curious then that my MLCer is acting like all three of these adults, repeating all their exact mistakes, while simultaneously attempting to project this onto me, who was raised in a more loving intact home and has always been a very loving, devoted mother. My therapist hypothesized early on that perhaps his inner child was jealous. It struck me as an odd remark yet I am reminded of it from time to time.

Great discussion!

[Not Applicable]

IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?

In my H's case, the OW plays the part of the abused mother, but he's not trying to save her, he's trying to get her to accept the abuse unquestioningly. I'm the one who he is trying to protect.

[Not Applicable]

That the OW has no clue is not important.  Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns.  She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible.  In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern.  She has the correct skills to do that on a base level. 

Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.

[BrenM]

Yes I totally agree that the OW (or Slore as we call her -  cross between Sl^t and wh*r^...thanks Kardashians 😂) is told many untruths about our marriages and relationships.   She then becomes the mother figure to protect our messed up MLCer.  My husbands mother was not nurturing and quite often turned a blind eye to my husband's emotional and sometimes physical abuse and ignored it totally.  Maybe this is why our Mlcer's tell a untrue sob story to the unexpecting ow in order to seek sympathy...a mothers sympathy.

My husband also plays the Daddy role to the Slore.....her father passed away when she was young, she has Daddy issues.  Has a reputation for breaking up happy families.  Could be a jealously thing on her behalf, seeing a family unit happy?  But it also highlights her need to have a close relationship with a man some 15 years older.  BUT I COULD NOT CARE LESS ABOUT HER ISSUES....I only focus on the man I care about.  She will move on sooner or later 😆

[maomina]

Ow in my case also has daddy issues ...apparently her father is somekind of a playboy who cheated on her mother various times and is a father to many other kids .....h is her substitute father being twice her age ......I could not even believe it when i heard her asking h (on the phone while he was here in Malta visiting the kids sept2015) "what am I going to eat ?" and "ohhh I can t go out without you " and many more child like questions !!!! I m amazed that their conversations revolve mainly on food !!!!!
 

[Enyo]

I also think that my H has mother issues but in my case I think that it is actually his mother that is ‘helping’ him deal with them now but as he has cut me off from his family I don’t really know what is going on.  H does not have many memories about his childhood, that there wasn't any physical abuse and on the surface they seem like a normal family, however…..  MIL was left to raise 3 sons almost single handed, FIL worked away from Monday morning until Friday evening.  MIL is not at all loving or nurturing, H admits to not having a loving childhood he describes it as practical, he and his brothers (H is the middle son) were not allowed to show emotion and when once asked by a counsellor what their family moto would have been H replied ‘You must conform’.  MIL has always used withdrawal of affection as a punishment, even on her adult sons.  She also seems unable to show affection to more than one child (or grandchild) at a time so the brothers had to complete and the ‘best’ boy got it.  Since moving out last August he has been developing his relationship with his mother, up until then their relationship had only ever been ‘duty’ on Hs part, now he is describing her as being ‘A wonderful strong and supportive women’.    She is now a frail 81 year old and spent 3 weeks quite ill in hospital at the beginning of this year; and whilst I wouldn’t want to wish her gone I am not sure how H will cope if she where to pass away in the near future, will he come out of this MLC or go further into depression.  Will this time getting to know her as an adult help?

[BrenM]

Interesting read Enyo.  My husband's father was exactly as you describe your MIL.  Definitely not fatherly or nurturing.  Cold, Cruel and Harsh would be my exact words.  My FIL had the favourite child, the one that could do no wrong, almost the preferred child.  It was very sad to watch whilst at the few family gatherings.  He did the same thing with his grandkids.  All of my four kids don't won't anything to do with him due to his cruel ways.  A decision they all have made alone. The stories that they have told me since BD have shocked me. 

After researching I blame FIL wholeheartedly for my husbands MLC.  He was never good enough, irrespective what he did in life.  His father would always mock him in public, he did not careless who heard him.  When he was 40 he had to give up work due to depression.  It appears to be a domino effect now with my husband.  He has turned his kids away from him.  Something that the old version husband would never do.

[lawprofessor]

That the OW has no clue is not important.  Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns.  She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible.  In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern.  She has the correct skills to do that on a base level. 

Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.

Changing, important as in significant or differentiating.  Almost 100% of the people here with affairs involved can attest to the fact that it is not unusual or even uncommon that the OP is told lies about who he is, his personality, his history, his financials, his position, his image.  A large percentage of the men paint themselves as invincible heroes/leaders/knights in shining armour/brave soldiers/leaders of important families/great warriors/captain's of industry/etc etc to the OW.  The other portion fall somewhere in the group of poor victims of circumstance/abused by the wife/abused by an unfair world etc etc. 

That the OW does not know of his previous abuse is part of her roll in this drama.  It is so common that it is part of the script described within the relationship. It is so common that it is listed in articles, for example,

#10: MOST MEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS HAVE AFFAIRS

 The other woman knows little or nothing of his history or flaws. The mid-lifer feeds the other woman rewritten history about his spouse. She starts the relationship by idealizing the mid-lifer. The mid-lifer can portray himself as heroic, perfect and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy.



He cannot play out this roll as easily with someone who knows his history since he is rewriting history and trying on another persona. 
If she didn't fit the roll, she would not have been cast in it and someone else would have.  And that qualification was not deciding but convenient for him as he doesn't even have to be all that careful or specific or detailed in his rewriting of history because she didn't have a clue. That's the qualification she brought to the table and how perfectly expendable she is.  That's a part of keeping the fantasy alive for them. 

But in the long run, it is just very unimportant as it is not a lasting quality.
Easier and common just do not add up to important, differentiating or significant. 

Lp

[lawprofessor]

For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse.  Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so.  But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment. 

LP,
I value your input on the subject and also mixed with your experience from your line of work.

What you stated in the above is something I think a lot about to day in my healing process, when I work through my FOO. The "only" answer I can come up with is (about why my mother didn't stop the abuse from my father against us children) she was abused by him as well. I don't or can't remember that I witness any physical abuse towards my mum only a lot of emotional/verbal.

The common saying in my country (might be the same around the globe) from police/womens shelter IC/layers in DV is that;
1. The abuser inherited the violence behavior from their father.
2. They will never get cured from this, only worse.
3. There is a huge possibility that their own children will inherited the same abusive behavior. (My IC at the shelter for DV, said that only IF the children has a emotional healthy/a mother who is present for the children the pattern will not be repeated)

My now XH never expressed that he was abused as a child, even if both me and my SIL both saw that H+ his brothers was in a way terrified about their father. SIL witnessed much more violent behavior from him than I did but I know he acted in various violent ways towards different people, when he was stressed out (I'm not in any way justifying his behavior bc he was stressed out nor am I justifying any ones behavior due to stress)

IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?

I know we are trying to put logic thinking into a irrational behavior which is impossible but since your above statement resonate with my own thoughts now a days about why didn't my mother shield us from the abuse herself, why did she let him continue his abusive behavior?

Hugs

Well Hello Passiflora!

I hope things are coming together well for you.  It has been some time since I have seen you posting.  Thank you for your kind words by the way.

Abuse is often not "remembered" naturally because it is too painful to recall for the mind to go there.  My mother has little to no recollection of life at home with her father or her childhood for example.  And her father was a very violent man.

Yes, mothers that don't stop the abuse are often abused.  That is the adult answer.  However, when addressing it with these men, it is getting to how the child felt that is the root.  With J he was so torn.  He told me in the end that he could not be angry at his mother.  "She was all we had.  She was our only source of love."  That's what he told me.  So it was not safe for him as a child to be angry with her.  If he had been, he would have been turning his back on his only source of love.

Yet in the end when I asked him during the real Depression phase, how the little boy that he was felt, he said he didn't know.  Then I asked him where his mother was while he was being beaten by his stepfathers.  He went blank as looked at the floor and mumbled that he didn't know, that he guessed she was out in the kitchen listening.  I asked him what that little boy would have wanted to say to his mother when it was happening.  He screamed, "Mommy why are you letting this happen!?!!  I hate you and I love you.  Why don't you love us?  Why don't you help us?" 

And after that we worked out how torn in two he felt.  Including the anger he felt towards his mother. And I talked to her about it afterwards.  She had her reasons for what she did and the mistakes she made as well.

As to the part the OW plays, yes, quite so.  The H has to work out the two sides:  Love for his mother and the child's feelings of betrayal that the mother did not protect him as well as his feelings of inadequacy as to being able to protect her. 

Then add in a third source of tension which is the idea of manhood.  In a male child's life, the man in the house defines the roll of manhood, what it means to be a man.  So the example is set for the boy as to being violent and aggressive, but this only causes more confusion as the boy is torn between love for his mother and wanting to protect her, wanting her to show him love by protecting him, and wanting to be a "man". 

I see so many men that are torn between those areas, unable to find a balance, unable to confront the mother about being angry with their mother for not protecting them because that means they risk their source of love, while the logical part of their brain understands she was powerless.  And that is another problem.  Can someone who is powerless be respected as the root of love is respect?  Hence the disrespect for women takes root as a proxy for the weakness of the mother and the subsequent anger.  And if someone is not respected, then the issue becomes, how can one love a mother who is weak, who is disrespected, who has not protected her child Etc?  But who can face that if the only source of constant love and stability is the mother? 

That's another source for the root of conflict avoidance and fear of being alone/abandonment which equates to being unloved.  They often are very angry, and take out their anger on those around them, which includes things like barroom fights for some.  J hurt many many people over the years, some quite seriously.  And he was arrested and convict of Domestic Violence on his OW.  And like his mother, the OW bailed him out of jail and took him home using her child support money to do that.  And so the circle was complete, a mirror of his childhood situation, except that he did not beat her children.  He beat her instead.

Since he has healed and worked out that root of tension, he has not shown any indication of violence towards anyone. 

The cycle can stop.  It has stopped for J.  It has stopped for me. 

Lp

[sparklestar]

Hmm... I don't think that any of us are the first to know we have problems in our own marriage. I am starting to think it is because they want the ow to feel pitty for them. Big bad mean wifie lol

Oh Tyks that did make me laugh - yup big bad mean widow for making them be married and trapped.....