[BrenM]

I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?



I think so too. My h's father married ow (in Vegas without telling boys) right about the same time he was my s11 age and told him that he will always choose his new wife and her family over them. They had a falling out when I met my h and his father and family wanted nothing to do with h for about 5 years. They reconnected again because with s2. When s was 7 and dad nearly died, dad told h that he wants to have nothing to do with him or family and that he didn't even like who he was. Sounds like a lot of what he is doing now.

All of this is just so sad!  It literally breaks my heart that I cannot fix anything for my MLCer and all the othe MLCer's and their families.

[Not Applicable]

I see so many men that are torn between those areas, unable to find a balance, unable to confront the mother about being angry with their mother for not protecting them because that means they risk their source of love, while the logical part of their brain understands she was powerless.

That's another source for the root of conflict avoidance and fear of being alone/abandonment which equates to being unloved.  They often are very angry, and take out their anger on those around them, which includes things like barroom fights for some.  J hurt many many people over the years, some quite seriously.  And he was arrested and convict of Domestic Violence on his OW.  And like his mother, the OW bailed him out of jail and took him home using her child support money to do that.  And so the circle was complete, a mirror of his childhood situation, except that he did not beat her children.  He beat her instead.

Since he has healed and worked out that root of tension, he has not shown any indication of violence towards anyone. 

The cycle can stop.  It has stopped for J.  It has stopped for me. 
Lp

This is all very interesting. You gave me some new thoughts about my husband's dynamic with his mother. I believe she is having issues with age. She gets aggressive toward me sometimes or accuses me of lying etc. All of which I don't think she can control. I regard it as signs of dementia. But when I tell my husband about these incidents just out of concern for her and ask him not to say anything, he will get very angry at her and bossy and tell her to knock it off and not harass me.

How did your husband manage to break the cycle? I'd like to hear more about that.

[UnbrokenLioness]

I often wonder if my h is projecting his mother's abandoning of him and his sister and his father abuse of him on me.

His mother had left him with his father when he was young.  He had told me of an incident where his father beat him with a belt when he was taking a shower.  I guess there was some favoritism that took place among the stepbrothers.

[Not Applicable]

That the OW has no clue is not important.  Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns.  She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible.  In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern.  She has the correct skills to do that on a base level. 

Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.

That the OW does not know of his previous abuse is part of her roll in this drama.  It is so common that it is part of the script described within the relationship. It is so common that it is listed in articles, for example,

#10: MOST MEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS HAVE AFFAIRS

 The other woman knows little or nothing of his history or flaws. The mid-lifer feeds the other woman rewritten history about his spouse. She starts the relationship by idealizing the mid-lifer. The mid-lifer can portray himself as heroic, perfect and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy.



He cannot play out this roll as easily with someone who knows his history since he is rewriting history and trying on another persona. 
If she didn't fit the roll, she would not have been cast in it and someone else would have.  And that qualification was not deciding but convenient for him as he doesn't even have to be all that careful or specific or detailed in his rewriting of history because she didn't have a clue. That's the qualification she brought to the table and how perfectly expendable she is.  That's a part of keeping the fantasy alive for them. 

But in the long run, it is just very unimportant as it is not a lasting quality.

Lp

What I find a bit odd is that it was important for him in the beginning of our marriage for him that I know about the abuse. He acted odd, and he felt he owed it to me to explain his odd behavior, and he did so in light of his childhood. And I accepted him that way. And he knows that. He knows he doesn't have to be fake with me. I love him as is. He doesn't need to act. But he was not as successful in his career before now (things are really good at the moment) than he would have liked and I am the only one who knows that and it is a secret I keep for him. So maybe he wants someone who doesn't know that. But I am just proud of him now, I don't care about the past and I have told him he is getting what he deserves now in terms of his career success.

What do you mean that it is not a lasting quality? Is it because keeping up the act gets harder and harder and more stressful?

[Medusa]

Medusa-- As you know our timelines, situations, and husbands are eerily similar.

Mine also dragged out the divorce, even didn't show up at a hearing and somehow blamed me...    My lawyer said it was strange dealing with a divorce when neither client seemed to want to get divorced. 

However, when I offered to change from a divorce to a separation (since he kept stalling), he actually stomped up and down like a two year old and screamed, "NO, I NEED A DIVORCE".  My lawyer, his lawyer and myself just looked at each other with our mouths open.

I found out later he was in the process of buying a house while we were still married.

So IMO, I think they want to jump into this new fantasy life but keep us under glass as plan B.

Again, this is my opinion only but the reason for the different types of MLCERs?

The clingers and boomerangs.... they are trying to keep their spouses just close enough in case they change their minds.
The vanishers.... they know we are going to move on and they can't watch bc they too want us around for their plan B.  If they don't look then we are still available in their minds. 

Heck, the Leaver even said it the day after BD, "I can't imagine you with anybody else",.... I responded with, "well, if you walk out that door you better imagine it, b/c it will take me ten minutes to replace you".  He never even once drove down our street again after he walked out the door that day.

Nah, I agree about them wanting to jump headlong into the fantasy while keepingnusnunder glass, at least for the boomerangs. Yours at least needed the divorce. X just went ahead and bought a new house about a year after w eparqted...but kept dragging out the divorce. 

Passi, it's great to have you back posting!

I agree that we are the victims of abuse. Like you, so,e f it was subtle during the marriage and I would never have realized it wa abuse because the relationship became codependent. When I finally accepted that, I was able to accept responsibility for my role in it and begin my own healing from own own issues.

The abstract from the study is fascinating and give some interesting insight into how they think. Shortly after our old house sold (he had to do all that work because I'd moved), he wrote an email to me, my attorney and his attorney saying it was a good thing he is an honest man because a smart man would have defaulted on the house. Can you say twisted attempt at being the good guy and somehow taking responsibility?

But it makes sense that they would lay blame, etc. Taking real responsibility means doing the hard work that we have done, and they simply aren't capable of that.

The important thing for us is to recognize that we are victims of abuse. It isn't easy to say your spouse is abusive, especially if for the majority of the marriage he wasn't (or it was very subtle). None of us likes to be a victim, but I believe the only path to healing is to accept that the constant games the MLCer plays is abusive and get ourselves help.

[maomina]

Hi I m reading some of the posts about ex dragging divorce....Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ? Is it a game they play so they keep us trapped in courts and under some kind of control  or is it simply cause they don t care what happens to us and the kids? A lawyer said its a game so that we give up and stop going after them for child support so they can continue with their new lives in peace ......to me it s  death-wish cause they know they could end up in jail!!

[nah]

..Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ?

I don't think most MLCers are as complicated as we make them out to be.  They're going through a selfish phase and really don't like to think about anything or anybody but themselves.  Child support??  meh.  Not something they want to think about so they ignore it, just like everything else.

[bluerose]

I agree with that with every ounce of my being.

[UnbrokenLioness]

Recently,  he told a family member that he pretended to be happy for the kids. Really?  Sheesh

[sparklestar]

..Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ?

I don't think most MLCers are as complicated as we make them out to be.  They're going through a selfish phase and really don't like to think about anything or anybody but themselves.  Child support??  meh.  Not something they want to think about so they ignore it, just like everything else.

Completely agree Nah. I think it's v easy to over analyse. When actually I think it's just extreme pathological selfishness along with a total lack of self awareness.  They just aren't thinking straight so I don't think there is a great deal of logical thought about anything andvthey are so focused on their own nonsense entirely self absorbed they just don't think much beyond that.