Author Topic: My Story Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts  (Read 5077 times)

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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My Story Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« on: April 03, 2017, 04:04:49 PM »
My wife’s midlife crisis seems kind of mild compared to most of the ones I’ve read about here. I thought about not posting here because my problems seem small, but I imagine there are others out there who are going through the same thing I am. So here goes...

My wife and I have now been married 25 years. We married young; she was 19 and I was 23. We have kids (21 and 19) who are great kids – kind and mature young adults who are in college making good decisions and doing great. My wife stayed home when our kids were young, but now works in a pretty stressful helping profession job. I also work in a public service job.

We used to have a model marriage. Really. Not in a Ken and Barbie way, but in an honest and loving friendship with lots of romance and great communication. Barely any bumps in the road until recently. Our youngest graduated from high school last spring, so we’re kind of empty nesters, although our youngest still lives at home while going to college.

Last spring her Mom, who lives in another state, had a debilitating stroke. This is on top of her nephew (who is almost like a son to her) having a life-threatening brain surgery. My wife has been going back to her childhood home to help out on a pretty regular basis ever since. This has resulted in her spending lots of time with her sister and her old High School friends. She also started drinking quite a bit and, from my perspective, acting like a petulant teenager. She got a new tattoo (not a big deal to me) for the first time in 25 years. She also started hanging out and drinking with her work friends, who are divorced women who are very sour and bitter people. She drove herself home a few times when she was in no shape to drive. She’s also gotten reckless with her spending. And she’s gotten to be somewhat hypersexual. She now wants sex from me every day and twice a day on weekends (we used to be once or twice a week).

I chalked up her behavior to stress from her job and her family situation and have worked really hard to hold down the fort at home and be a supportive listener. I told myself to be glad she was sleeping with me and not someone else. I thought I was doing the best I could.

Then in the summer I noticed she suddenly was spending a lot of time on her phone. Once it buzzed when she was in another room and I picked it up to take it to her. I noticed a text from a colleague (I’ll call him John) that said “do you think I’m cute?” It was very weird. I asked my wife about it and she said it was no big deal. But after that she started taking her phone with her everywhere, even to the bathroom. A few days later she got a call and said it was “Jane” and she had to take it outside. I knew she was lying. That night, after she went to bed, I checked her phone, and sure enough the phone call was from “John.” Not only that, she and John had been exchanging texts that were completely inappropriate. He was obviously hitting on her and she liked the attention. It looked like a Jr. High crush. Lots of cutiepie emojis, etc... Yes, she did think he was cute. He even asked her details about our sex life that she answered. The whole thing was very disturbing and completely out of character.

I confronted her about it and I got an angry teenager response of “why are you so critical of me? Why are you on my back? Why don’t you trust me? How can we live together if there’s no trust?” It was really nasty. Her narrative is that I’m a critical and judgmental person.

Since then, things have settled down. She admitted that her “playful banter” was inappropriate and agreed to stop calling and texting John. (They don’t talk anymore that I know of – I assume he’s moved on to flirting with some other man’s wife). She didn’t want to go to marriage counseling, but I had a few sessions with a therapist that really helped me. It helped me see her early-stage emotional affair as a symptom of a midlife crisis caused by her being overwhelmed by stress (stressful job, sick parents, children leaving, etc...) and not handling it well. There were other clues as well (rewriting history, etc..) Now, instead of a great marriage, we now have an OK marriage. We still live together and get along tolerably well, but at the expense of not talking about things that might stress her. And she still accuses me of being critical of her.

For example, I recently shared with her that I was concerned about her going out drinking with her female co-workers so often, spending lots of money and leaving me home to do the housework and eat leftovers alone. I was actually extremely positive and supportive and approached the conversation as telling her I wanted to spend more time with her. Her response was that I shouldn’t be so critical of her cooking (I assume because I mentioned “leftovers”).

I’m not concerned about her having a sexual affair, becoming a full-blown alcoholic or leaving me. At least not at the moment. But I’m really tired of walking on eggshells. Being married to a woman with the attitude of a teenager is not much fun. I’m worn out from constantly monitoring our finances, I’m sexually exhausted, slightly depressed and generally unsatisfied. I feel like I’ve somehow become co-dependent to her crisis and I’m lost some self-respect. I’m tired of her selfishness and I want her to grow up again. I also have this sense of dread that some other shoe will drop and I’ll be too tired to handle it next time. I’m trying to outlast her "transition", to take care of myself physically and financially, and to protect myself emotionally. But we’ve been so close for so long that I’m in grief for the loss of my great marriage and friendship.

Anyway, I know I should feel lucky and that things could be much worse, but I still feel lousy. Any advice is appreciated.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Kintsugi

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 06:02:50 PM »
You're in the right place.
I am not sure what I can give as far as advice but I can validate your feelings and assure you that you are not alone.  I am married 19 years, this is my 2nd marriage, 3 kids (22, 21 & 18).  Not sure where and when it started to unravel but it did.  Death of H's close relative, death of my mom 7 years ago which may have been what started this all, two of the kids moved out.  H works a stressful job and is often working 8 hr shifts with women alone.  I never had any reason not to trust him.  We had, what I thought, was a great marriage and I believed we were inseparable.  I sometimes mourn the marriage that I had and I feel like he re-wrote the history of our marriage.
H got involved in an EA with a coworker and did things that to this day I am still amazed at.  If you told me aliens took his brains for a while I could believe it.  Anywho, when all of the inappropriate things were revealed, I gave H an ultimatum to transfer job locations.  It was a painful transition for him but he did it.  He didn't snap out of it immediately, it took some time. 
I can relate to your being really tired of walking on eggshells, being married to someone with the attitude of a teenager. I am worn out from having to monitor finances and cell phone bills although I don't do it as much as when I found this all out which was over a year ago. I’m slightly depressed and feel somewhat unsatisfied but I make it through each day.  At times I felt like I lost some self-respect to but then I realized I didn't do anything wrong. After all this time,  I also have this sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think it's called PTSD.
I realized I do have advice for you - get a mentor!  It helped me a lot and it can help you too.
(((Hugs)))
When the Japanese mend broken objects, they aggrandize the damage by filling the cracks with gold.  They believe that when something’s suffered damage and has a history it becomes more beautiful ~ Barbara Bloom

Offline TryinSoul

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 08:45:15 PM »
Not to jump to conlusions but your wife's behavior describes my x to a T.  It took me much longer to recognize it, but it went downhill rapidly.  From your descriptions to her leaving was 9 months.  My advice is to read the articles on the main page as a just in case.  If I had the knowledge prior it was have saved me about 5 months of pure hell.
All that counts, is what comes next.

Offline Mae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 09:50:09 PM »
The best advice I can tell you is to keep reading and keep posting. You will see your situation reflected repeatedly ad nauseam on these threads and the older ones too. There is a wealth of information on this site including all the articles and blogs pertaining to MLC and how to respond/cope with it.

While you say your situation seems mild in comparison, the feelings of hurt, bewilderment, rejection, confusion, loss etc are all too REAL and very very painful regardless of whether your spouse is monstering/not monstering, having an affair or not, left or not, so please don't think your situation is less painful, or less serious than any of the others, it all hurts, hurts, hurts just the same.

You are in a good place here.
Me: 50
H: 40
S19, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Silent and non-communicative

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 09:53:09 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 03:00:01 AM »
Hi PJ.

I hope you keep posting.  You have found a good place for support...and it will help you get through this horror movie.

I agree with Mae, your story is very much like others on here, it is not too mild.
MLC is a serious problem.

All I can tell you right now is try to detach from her as much as you can.  Just be light and friendly and no relationship talks.  It will get you no where.
Take good care of yourself, because I imagine you are probably not eating or sleeping properly.  None of us did.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Whyus

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 04:10:25 AM »
Im so sorry that your here my friend,
I dont mean to break it to you and im sure that you know already but it sounds like shes having an affair  :-\.
My story is similar (phone, visiting friends..) she wasnt visiting friends, she was with her 28 year old "Trainings partner".
I too would have never imagined that she could do that. She was really the perfect mother and Wife!!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 04:19:01 AM by Whyus »
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline StormChaser

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 12:25:01 PM »
Hey PJ,

Your story is almost a mirror image of mine pre-bomb drop. All those things your wife is doing, my wife did. The main difference is that the emotional affair and flirting progressed to a full affair before I found out which became the bomb drop.

Based on what you've said, your wife may be in a place that marriage counselling won't help at all - she may have already written off your marriage without even telling you.

What I can recommend is that you suggest to your wife that she get counselling for herself, even if she isn't interested in joint sessions. That has probably been the single biggest help for my wife over the last 9 months.

Realize that where your wife goes over the next weeks, months or even years is not really up to you, but up to her. You can stand, you can run, it probably won't change how hard the MLC hits her. Also realize that it doesn't matter what she was like before, she's probably already in a different place!

This is one of the best places I've found to reflect, to get advice, to ask for help. And because the script is so amazingly similar between so many MLCers, you can get great insight into where things are going just be hanging around here.

Good luck on this journey none of us want to be on...
Me - 48
MLC W - 48
Together 18 yrs
Married 14 yrs
S 12
S 10
S 8
BD June 1 2016
Home Dec 23 2016
Recommited to our M Sept 2017

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 03:45:32 PM »
Thanks for all the kind words. Especially the hugs from BelleElle! It's very touching that complete strangers would take the time to express their concern for me.

The affirmation is very comforting. Sometimes I get so tied up in knots that I wonder if I'm the crazy one. It's good to know that there are sane people who can understand and relate.

I'll keep posting and will probably request a mentor in a few weeks once I get to better acquainted with the community. I'm very glad this place exists.

BelleElle's comment about alien abduction really hit the nail on the head for me. I often feel like aliens took my wife and left me this replicant in her place. It looks like her, but it's a different creature altogether.

I'm wondering about my wife's sudden sex drive surge. She's a bit young for menopause (44). I'm actually starting to feel like she's having an affair - with me. She's been extremely flirty and coquettish with me for the past year. She says it helps her deal with work stress. But it makes it hard for me to take care of myself and to detach. I know I should be glad she's sleeping with me and not some other guy. But still - I'm tired!

At some point in our relationship, we will have to discuss painful subjects again. For now she just wants to go bowling, watch TV comedies, drink wine and have sex (I know you all know that's not as fun as it sounds). It's become a more superficial relationship. My question for the community is this: how do you have a delicate, rational conversation with an irrational person? For example, I would like to discuss boundaries regarding relationships with opposite-sex coworkers, but I can't imagine the conversation going well. Should I just wait until she brings things up?

Thanks again everyone!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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No sympathy. No remorse.
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 07:49:11 AM »
So I realized something a couple days ago that has put me in a bit of an emotional tailspin. I think I must be a slow learner, but it just dawned on me that one of the reasons I'm still struggling so much with my wife's EA is that she has no discernible sympathy for the pain she's put me through. She has no remorse at all that I can tell. She'll say things like "I'm sorry you felt that way" or "I sent some stupid texts" but she has never once said "I'm sorry." It's like she has no awareness that sexually flirtatious texts with another (married) man are wrong in and of themselves. I feel like she's only sorry she got caught.

I'm sure this is old hat for many of you (I'm sure many of you are saying "duh"), but realizing this hit me hard. Should I just learn to live with it and not expect any remorse or sympathy for years? Should I detach more? Probably.

Things have been going pretty well for the past few months. We're still living together and getting along tolerably well. I felt like I was riding out her crisis ok and it was starting to feel like old times again. But the OM has been commenting on her Facebook posts again and when I tried to talk to her about it, her lack of concern for my feelings kind of stunned me.

Maybe I should just expect nothing so I won't be disappointed.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 08:58:40 AM by OldPilot »
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Searching4Answers

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Re: No sympathy. No remorse.
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 08:35:18 AM »
People can only display sympathy and remorse if they have empathy - MLCer's do not have any empathy.

Sadly, not very many LBS's ever get remorse, I certainly have not. Can't recall ever getting a genuine "I'm sorry" either. In order for "I'm sorry" to mean anything, it must be accompanied by actions. While they are in MLC they are selfish and the only they feel sorry for is themselves.

I feel like she's only sorry she got caught.

Bingo!
We all do damage. Character is determined by how we repair it.


BD - December 2012
OW1 confirmed - December 2012 on-and-off for 34 months and counting (still refers to her as just a 'friend')
Wants to live like roommates - November 2013
I moved out - April 2015
H is still checking the anchor

Offline Watcher

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Re: No sympathy. No remorse.
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 08:41:15 AM »
Hey PJ,

22 months post BD myself and not one apology. Not even sorry for getting caught. If only you would have treated me right Watcher. LOL. She has an answer for everything. She is entitled and her behavior is justified.

Offline Elegance

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Re: No sympathy. No remorse.
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 08:50:19 AM »
`Hi PJ,

I'm sorry for your pain. MLCers don't typically show remorse or apologize for a very long time.

They honestly have no feelings right now as somehow the MLC has put all kinds of feelings away on a shelf for later after they heal their issues.

Just keep in your heart that if your W heals, she will come around and  see everything she has done and show some kind of remorse. At least that is how MLC is 'supposed' to go.

Keep faith in the process of MLC!

Hang in there. Stay Strong.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 09:26:24 AM »
I agree that MLC'ers have no remorse or empathy certainly while they are in their crisis.

I think continuing to detach and let her work through her issues are the best bet.
Along with having boundaries.

I merged your threads together
Please stick to one thread until 150 posts

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 10:29:04 AM »
Thanks for the kind words and insight everyone. I really appreciated it.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2017, 11:50:58 AM »
Well, I may have messed up.

After several months of keeping our relationship light and fun and noticing a lot of improvement, (almost like old times) I decided it may be a good time to try to test the waters and talk about how I feel. (yeah, I know - bad idea)

As you can probably guess, my wife responded in a negative way. She keeps coming back to my "trust issues" after her emotional affair last June. As if I have no reason to mistrust someone who has betrayed my trust, lied to me and tried to keep things hidden from me. She's still occasionally communicating with the third party, although from what I can tell not nearly as much as she used to. (He's a co-worker so there are some legitimate reasons to for them to communicate) She also wants to know why I keep constantly bringing her EA up. (We've talked about it a total of 4 times over the past year.) 

Basically, I'm getting tired of this lighthearted buddy relationship we have. What I want is to have a real marriage with a grown-up I can talk to about things. (I know, good luck!) I guess I'll have to wait and keep working on my own self.

Here's my question for those who have been through the wringer: how do you communicate boundaries with a person who is totally in denial about the hurt their actions have caused and thinks "a few stupid texts" is no big deal? And who thinks that the problem in our relationship is my lack of trust? By setting boundaries, am I communicating that I don't trust her? I don't, of course, but I can't say that. Or maybe I should just stop walking on tiptoes and tell her what I expect? When we try to talk about anything important, she just hears what she wants to hear, so I don't think there's any point in talking. Is it best to write down a list of expectations rather than communicating them verbally?
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 11:59:59 AM »
Here's my question for those who have been through the wringer: how do you communicate boundaries with a person who is totally in denial about the hurt their actions have caused and thinks "a few stupid texts" is no big deal?
And who thinks that the problem in our relationship is my lack of trust?
By setting boundaries, am I communicating that I don't trust her?
 I don't, of course, but I can't say that.
 Or maybe I should just stop walking on tiptoes and tell her what I expect?
When we try to talk about anything important, she just hears what she wants to hear, so I don't think there's any point in talking.
 Is it best to write down a list of expectations rather than communicating them verbally?
I think you need boundaries.
I think you can have NO EXPECTATIONS.

I do NOT think you need to communicate the boundaries by words.
You communicate them through ACTIONS.

Words are meaningless,  actions show your true intent.

So write down your boundaries here and lets discuss them and how through your actions you will enforce them.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 12:33:37 PM »
Here's what I think would be healthy boundaries in our (and any) marriage:
• Physical violence is never acceptable
• Sexual infidelity is not acceptable
• Verbal abuse is not acceptable
• Belittling a spouse in front of family (especially kids) is not OK.
• Discussing our sex life with an opposite sex co-worker is not cool with me. (that's been an issue)
• It's not OK to complain about a spouse to members of the opposite sex.
• Lying and intentional deception is not OK.
• When you recognize that you are flirting, stop it.
• Hiding things and keeping secrets from each other is not OK.
• We should always check with each other before making major purchases.
• We should never put kids in a position where they are forced to pick sides in our conflict.

Do these sound too much like rules? Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 01:07:40 PM »
Here's what I think would be healthy boundaries in our (and any) marriage:
• Physical violence is never acceptable
• Sexual infidelity is not acceptable
• Verbal abuse is not acceptable
• Belittling a spouse in front of family (especially kids) is not OK.
• Discussing our sex life with an opposite sex co-worker is not cool with me. (that's been an issue)
• It's not OK to complain about a spouse to members of the opposite sex.
• Lying and intentional deception is not OK.
• When you recognize that you are flirting, stop it.
• Hiding things and keeping secrets from each other is not OK.
• We should always check with each other before making major purchases.
• We should never put kids in a position where they are forced to pick sides in our conflict.

Do these sound too much like rules? Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.
While I can not dispute anything you wrote,
what are the consequences of breaking these boundaries.
In other words are they enforceable?

My favorite boundary is I will not be in a relationship with you if you are in a relationship with someone else.

Easy to enforce and no words are required.

How many of your above ones fit into mine?

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 01:24:43 PM »
"I will not be in a relationship with you, if you are in a relationship with someone else." Wow, you said it much better than me! That covers a lot of the ones that are important to me. I'm going to use that. Thanks!

As far as enforceability, the major purchases one is the easiest: any purchase over a certain dollar amount made without checking with the other spouse first is automatically returned. That's actually happened.

I don't know how to enforce boundaries against lying, belittling etc... In the old days, we could just tell each other if we were hurt and empathy would lead to remorse > apology > forgiveness > reconciliation. But if she has no remorse for doing hurtful things, I honestly don't know how enforce much of anything.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline bookwrmmom

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 02:43:31 PM »
Hello PJ and welcome, sorry I am late jumping on board here. I would like to comment on the financial aspect. Please be prepared at a moments notice to protect yourself financially. Due to her behavior you should hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I
Many couples keep things joint and many keep them separate. If there is a way for you to start saving separately (without violating your own rules) then I would do so. If you are ones who have any separate accounts, then this would be easy.
For you sake I hope that never becomes necessary however I have been a part of the HS crew for over 3 years. I have learned to err on the side of safety.
Hugs my friend, and know you have people here who support you.
M-44 at BD (now 47)
H-47 at BD (now 49)
Tog-16 1/2 yrs
M-16yrs
Kids- S23, S24, D18 at BD
BD-2/15/2014
Left-2/17/2014
OW1-fantasy ended in less then a year
OW2- briefly dated-she said he was not a happy enough person
OW3-post divorce so not really OW, he is a free agent now
Divorce-10/5/2015
Giving up does not always mean that you are weak; sometimes it means you are strong enough to let go.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2017, 11:36:43 PM »
Now that I have an awesome mentor (Thanks!), I think it might be wise to recap my situation. I've looked back on my previous posts and realized many of them were me venting when I was hurting and angry. Since I'm feeling kind of calm and collected tonight, maybe this is a good time to revisit things.

First, some background facts:
* After 25 years of seriously great marriage, our youngest graduated High School in Spring 2016
* My wife's mother (who lives in another state) had a stroke in early 2016, resulting in wife spending a lot of time  with her family, sister, old high school friends, etc..
* Wife's job became very stressful in 2016
* Wife was diagnosed with osteoarthritis and psoriatic arthritis in summer 2016
* Aliens abducted wife in summer 2016, leaving me a replicant in her place (OK, I made that up. But it feels that way.) Wife started acting like a teenager: lots of drinking, turbocharged sex drive, new tattoo, reckless spending and other behavior.
* Bomb drop - caught wife in EA June 2016. I'm pretty confident there was no PA, but OM is professional colleague and they are still in occasional contact. Some of this I'm sure is legitimate professionally (they are both counselors), but I don't like the way the door is still cracked open. Wife has been testing my boundaries in her "friendship" with OM and has lied to me about their continued occasional contact ("so I wouldn't overreact").

I think the combination of generational changes and work stress is what pushed my wife over the edge. She's never been good with stress and it looks to me like she just reached a saturation point and can't handle any more. Meanwhile, unresolved childhood issues tackled her from behind while she spent so much time with her parents, sister, old friends, etc... She's never seen a counselor, but these factors made me think MLC.

Where things are today, 1 year in:
* Still living together
* Wife still has no remorse over EA. Thinks it was no big deal and I'm overreacting. She thinks our biggest problem is my "trust issues." Wife has no interest in counseling, but I've seen an IC a few times and it helped.
* Relationship is pretty superficial. Other than a couple of disastrous attempts by me, we don't discuss our relationship. We go bowling, watch movies, etc... We have some fun, but it is not emotionally satisfying for me. But I think it's what she needs for now.

What I've been doing:
* Making lots of mistakes, especially in the early days. I tried hard to fix things and somehow felt that if I only had more information, I would know the right thing to say or do to fix the relationship. I tried to reason with an irrational person; it didn't work.
* Doing better at working on myself lately. Getting healthier, losing weight, working on hobbies, building new friendships.
* Trying to detach emotionally. Not always succeeding.

What I'm struggling with:
* I'm grieving the end of a 25-year marriage. Even though we're still married and could be till death do us part, my wife is definitely not the same person she was before. I'm mourning the loss of that wife. (She was great - I really miss her). It's also hard to grieve the loss of someone when she's still here (or at least that alien replicant is still living with me).
* Her cycling. Sometimes she seems like my old wife and I get tricked into feeling like the storm has passed. Then she says or does something outrageous and out of character and I get the rug pulled out from under me all over again.
* My cycling. I've learned a lot from this board, from reading and thinking and from my counselor. But some days something will trigger my emotional PTSD (only slight exaggeration) and I just forget everything I've learned. For example when OM likes my wife's Facebook post, it drives me nuts.
* Detaching. Trying not to pursue her or to fix her. This is really hard when I see her making decisions that cause her pain and grief.
* Getting a life. Not letting my marriage swamp everything else I do.

Anyway, I always feel timid posting here when I see the insane things some of your spouses are putting you through. My wife is a mess and I'm still hurting and grieving, but I know it could be a lot worse. Thanks to everyone for your kind words. Hopefully I'll be able some words of wisdom myself if I ever learn any wisdom to share!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Busy_Bee

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2017, 02:41:23 AM »
Hi PJ Ames,
Your wife is in far away land now and no matter what you do you won't be able to reach her. She is still physically present but emotionally she is gone. You can't build any connection with her in such state.

Quote
We go bowling, watch movies, etc... We have some fun, but it is not emotionally satisfying for me. But I think it's what she needs for now.
Probably it won't be far away from the truth if I tell you that she doesn't want to do those normal things with you, she just going through the motions. It seems to me that she is a wallower. If she is, as was I a few years ago, it is safe to suggest just to leave her alone and don't initiate those "couple things", because it is considerate by MLCer as pressure.
In order to detach try to gradually release interactions with your W.
She doesn't understand what is happening to her, nor she sees any fault in her behavior, but eventually she will get to a point when she will be forced to look within.
You are doing great. You just need to have more faith in the process. You can't control her cycling, but you can control yours  :)   
Quote
Wife has been testing my boundaries in her "friendship" with OM and has lied to me about their continued occasional contact ("so I wouldn't overreact").
Stop asking her about OM and you don't have to hear her lies. If you don't react this game will get old very soon. She is just looking for attention. Don't give it to her!


Offline Thunder

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017, 02:48:18 AM »
Hi PJ,

Please don't EVER feel to timid to write down your feelings here.  We have all felt the way you are feeling.  We get it!

 I think, from what I've read, you're doing pretty good so far.

You have realized you can't have a rationally conversation with a MLCer.
You are trying to detach
You are not trying to fix her or pursue her (big one)
You're working on yourself and making new friends

All good!

This is such a hard thing to go through.  It turns your whole world upside down.  BB is right looks like you have a wallower on your hands.
All you can do is concentrate on yourself and try to take the focus off her.  It's hard to do but she has enough focus on herself to last a lifetime.   She doesn't need yours too.  ::) 

Of course you don't trust her.  What she is doing is not trust worthy.
She can try to put it back on you all she wants but she knows darn well what she is doing is not right, she just doesn't want to own up to it because then she'd have to actually do something about it...like stop contacting him.

I agree with OP...I will have no relationship with you as long as you are in a relationship with another man!  Then go dim/dark until she ends it (good luck with that, btw).  ::)

Whether she likes it or not.  Just be firm.  Sorry, you can't understand that but you are my W and this is how I feel.  If his "friendship" is that important to you then I guess that's your choice.  But you can't have it both ways.
You don't get both of us.

You can still be polite but no more treating her like your faithful W.
She has to earn that title back.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2017, 05:57:00 AM »
* Getting a life. Not letting my marriage swamp everything else I do.
Maybe a little mystery would be good.
You want her to pursue you - not  you pursue her.

Remember that sometimes a person desires what they can not have.

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2017, 08:28:36 AM »
Hi there PJ.  Your posts sound like me three years ago.  My H began an EA in May 2014 and I found out quite soon.  He agreed to stop and I thought our relationship was improving.  But the lure of someone who thinks you're marvellous and who is forbidden (she is married too) is strong and he has reconnected several times.  Each time I have found out and stopped it again, but we are now one year post escalation and the ILYBINILWY statement.  He now says he doesn't want to be with me in any way, he is back in touch with OW daily, and has said that it would be better for me if he left - I agreed with him, but he hasn't actually left!!!  Our boys are still children - 12 and 14 - and I worry about them All The Time.  I hope you don't mind me talking about me but I thought it would be helpful for you to see a progression so you know what may lie ahead.  When I look back I think I should perhaps have allowed the EA to burn through and worked on myself rather than us back in 2014.  Maybe we would still be where we are now, or maybe we would be over by now - I will never know I guess.

I know everyone says this but that is because, I think, it is the right thing to do - if you can.  Detach and work on yourself.  When I have been able to do this (I'm not very good at it) life is easier for me and H becomes calmer and sometimes tries to reconnect.  Those are dangerous times because it gets your hopes up so I am resolved to try not to overthink this if it happens again and to just live in the moment.  You are still early on in your journey (probably - sorry), and I suspect the road will be long, winding and may even disappear at times, but by detaching and focusing on you, you will travel that road. 

Keep posting and please look after yourself first and foremost.

MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2017, 08:08:00 AM »
Thanks still going. Great advice which I struggle to follow. I don't mind you talking about yourself at all - it is really helpful for me to see a progression!

I also think my wife is really attracted to danger of the forbidden (OM is married) and the way he tells her she's perfect. His texts that I saw were the kind that everyone knows is laughable and gag-worthy baloney except the person receiving them.

I'm trying not to snoop and to let the EA burn itself out. I think for the most part it has, but I don't like the way the door seems to still be cracked open. But I think that if I try to break them apart, I'll only throw them together. It would be like telling a 2-year-old or a teenager NOT to do something.

Thanks again for taking the time to post here - I really do appreciate hearing from someone further down the road. You're very wise and compassionate!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2017, 08:18:13 AM »
I think that if I try to break them apart, I'll only throw them together.
It would be like telling a 2-year-old or a teenager NOT to do something.
Actually that is affair busting, I know it sounds counter intuitive but
the sooner the reality of her actions smack  her in the face the better
chance that it ends.

Even a 2 year old needs boundaries.

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2017, 01:48:26 PM »
OP would  you be able to explain this please as my experience of stopping the EA by threatening to tell OW's  H has been that it stops for a while, then when they think I am no longer checking up on H they start up again. What sort of boundary can you set with a live-in MLCer other than - do not act in a way which mean that I am aware of what you are doing?  I have done this but it seems a pretty soft boundary. But if I push against his Contact with OW it just drives him to her more.
MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »
OP would  you be able to explain this please as my experience of stopping the EA by threatening to tell OW's  H has been that it stops for a while, then when they think I am no longer checking up on H they start up again. What sort of boundary can you set with a live-in MLCer other than - do not act in a way which mean that I am aware of what you are doing?  I have done this but it seems a pretty soft boundary. But if I push against his Contact with OW it just drives him to her more.

Read this first
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/exposure-when-and-how-to-expose-affair/

My  thought is threatening is not a good idea.

DO not threaten.

Quote
if I push against his Contact with OW it just drives him to her more.
Again pushing them together is part of affair busting - it is counter intuitive.


Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2017, 02:40:54 PM »
Thanks OO. I think I need to start a new thread rather than hi-jack PJs.
MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »
You're not hijacking my thread at all stillgoing! Your question is very relevant to me. Thanks for posting the Exposure article OP.

My situation is a little different in that I discovered the EA pretty early on and it is (I think) more or less busted. I know that doesn't sound very confident, but it's my reality.

The complication with the OM is that he is my wife's co-worker. They work for the same agency but in different offices so they only are physically in the same building about once a quarter. But they do still have legitimate work-related reasons to talk occasionally. My wife and I reached an agreement early on that any contact between her and OM would only be work-related and during work hours. As far as I know, she has only violated the work hours part a couple of times when she had been drinking. I suspect they still talk more than they actually need to, but I can't monitor her office phone and I really don't know. She is also looking for a different job but from what I can tell, not very hard.

The frustrations I have with my wife and OM are the gray areas. For example, when he comments (innocuously) on her Facebook posts. I wish she would just unfriend him. But if show that I'm upset by him congratulating her on an award or saying "nice photo" of a vacation picture, she's just going to say I'm being petty and insecure. My wife has convinced herself that the problem in our marriage is not her lying, drinking, spending, etc... but that I am untrusting and critical.

Of course, I would like to see 100% no contact between them. The fact that the door is still cracked open is annoying. But if I demand 100% no contact, I suspect it would make him more that much more dangerous and interesting to her and push her to him more.

My guess is that OM is a flirt and is more bark than bite. Aside from my emotional torment, my concerns now are what happens when the next guy shows her interest. Since my wife seems to have lost her moral compass and any sense of remorse, what is there to keep her from probing the boundaries with the next guy?

I think my wife and I and pretty clear on the black and white areas, but the blurry lines and gray areas are frustrating. She likes getting close to the edge.

I hope I'm making sense.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2017, 01:26:30 AM »
I agree your situation is different.  The stuff I have read on EAs says to treat it the same as a PA in that all contact should stop or if it doesn't stop because they are co-workers then should be reported honestly and openly to the spouse.  But that assumes a penitent person not living in the fog of MLC.  If your wife doesn't accept she has done anything wrong, then I can't really see how this would work.  That's the position I am in with my H.  He says OW is a friend and nothing more - at least that's what he tells me.  Of course this is rubbish and one's gut is rarely wrong.  If it looks like a witch, it talks like a witch and it smells like a witch - then its a Witch!  All that should matter is your perception of it - in the Normal World.  In MLC World all bets are off.  Does anyone else know about your W's EA?  My close family and my H's know about his OW but my children don't.  H doesn't see my family at all at the moment, and very little of his own family so no one calls him out on his behaviour.  But I don't think he is ready yet to be in any way accountable for his behaviour.  I did have a brief moment of insight from him recently when he said that he had done some bad things and didn't enjoy his life at the moment - but next day 'usual' service was resumed.

I have come to a decision that the consequences for my children of me exposing the affair now are not something I am willing to accept.  So I will not expose him or her at the moment.  It might help you to journal here to try to 'talk through' your thought processes so that you can come to a decision on your situation.

Sadly PJ grey (I'm English so please bear with me on the spelling) is all there is for the LBS when we venture into MLC World.  It is never clear cut and just when you think you are clear on boundaries you find they have been trampled on.  As I am sure you know by now, we cannot control our MLCer, only ourselves and our reactions to their behaviour.

(Platonic) Hugs - Still
 
MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Offline Whyus

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2017, 02:22:12 AM »
SG. Just a question.
If you expose your Hs EA to OWs H then it shouldnt affect your kids. Just have a chat with his W, neither even have to know that you have spoken. If she looks at his phone. You dont have to expose them to the whole neighbourhood.
One thing that you can guarantee is if given half a chance the EA will become a PA!! Im sure most will agree with that..
Your stronger than i am SG  ;)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2017, 03:00:34 AM »
I take your point Whyus, but I do not know how the OW's H will react, and our youngest sons are friends and in the same class at school.  The fallout could be huge.  TBH it doesn't make any difference to me whether its an EA or a PA - an EA is in many ways more painful to me because of the emotional connection.  From what I have read, and this is a generalisation, many women feel this way whereas for men a PA is often harder to accept. 

I believe we all have inner strength, and we find it when tested.  I believe in marriage, and I am also not willing to either quit or to throw away over 18 years of a good marriage because of 3 years of a bad one.  My H has no reference point for a successful marriage, as his parents divorced when he was 3, and his H then went on to have a number of turbulent relationships and I think this is likely to be coming back to bite him now.  He says things now he would never have said 3-4 years ago.  So I have to be strong because he can't be right now.  That's what marriage is about - give and take.  I realise he is doing all the taking, but when I look back at this journey I see that the times when he improved were when I did not rise to his baiting and was better at detaching.  Without something to push against, he has no choice but to calm down and actually he doesn't then get to take.  What I need to work on now is being consistent in this because it is Really Hard to maintain.  Being angry doesn't make the situation any better for me and just damages the LBS - as a song I like by a UK artist (Mika - you probably don't know of him) says 'being angry never solved anything'.  That's my take on it at any rate.

One other point.  I am not a doormat, and I do not think that, whatever the outcome of this, my H should be allowed to act in the way he has been and get off 'scot free'.  However, at the moment trying to enforce hard boundaries and get him to respond rationally simply is not going to happen and just winds me up if I do try.  I try to be firm in my resolve to detach and control my boundaries so that I can look after myself and my children.  He can sort himself out for the time being.  If he is ever ready to be accountable, we can have a discussion then about how we move forward, either as parents of our children living apart, or as a couple.  I also realise that I am not responsible for his behaviour or actions, but that if I had been more observant and knowledgeable earlier things may not have got to the point they are at now.  I am not to blame for that but neither is he in the sense that some of his behaviour is a reaction to mine.  It is never a case of black and white, and I don't think it is helpful to me to place blame solely on one of us, or in fact to think about blame at all.  We are where we are and I just have to deal with the here and now.



MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Offline Whyus

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2017, 04:15:26 AM »

 From what I have read, and this is a generalisation, many women feel this way whereas for men a PA is often harder to accept. 


I didnt want to mention it here but i agree with you 100% that men (certainly myself) have more of a problem with PAs than women do.
Its simply to do with the physical act itself! (we all know how sex works right!) Im not sexist but its alot harder knowing that your W has slept with someone else than if your H has done simply because of how sex works... Goosebumps even writing this ;-((.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2017, 04:43:16 AM »
This is why it is so important for you to detach and start working on yourself and your positivity.  If you keep dwelling on your W's behaviour it will eat you up.  You must try to remove the thoughts from your mind and concentrate on yourself.  Its the only way you will be able to detach successfully IMO.
MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Offline Whyus

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2017, 05:34:25 AM »
I am doing just that Still  8).
I don't think about it anymore, they can do what they like. As long as shes in lala land I have to think of myself. I even call him OM now and not Toyboy as I did for months because hes not worth it. Hes a friendless Gym nerd who has achieved nothing except a sixpack!!  I just dug it up to prove why its so hard for the male LBS to accept a PA.
 Im in a good place, only thinking of my boys and myself.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2017, 01:51:49 PM »
Just a quick update as my time with an official mentor is almost up. (Thanks OP!)

Not much has changed this past month. I’m still working on myself and on detaching. Detaching is a challenge, especially since we still live together and we actually have some good days. We were very close for 25 years. Some days I do better than others, but I’m a lot happier, wiser and more content than I was a year ago.

W broke down crying about a very trivial thing over the weekend. She says she now realizes she has some unresolved issues from childhood. I was very supportive and resisted the temptation to say “No s- Sherlock!”

I think it’s positive that she’s realizing that she may have some underlying issues that pre-date marrying me. Her parents were very critical and made fun of her when she had bad grades, bad haircuts, etc... I think that’s at least part of why she has such a hard time with me suggesting she change her behavior. When she feels like someone is trying to control her, she gets this defiant, immature “you’re not the boss of me” attitude.

As an example, we had a conversation a while back in which I expressed my displeasure over OM commenting on a Facebook post my wife made. It was a picture of my S and his girlfriend. OM commented “cute couple.” Nothing outrageous or anything, but it angered me because it involved my son. As far as I know, our kids don’t know about OM, or the extent or my wife’s issues. They’re involved in their own lives, as they should be at their ages (college). I may be extra sensitive about this kind of thing since my parents were unfaithful to each other and I swore my kids would never have to endure the kind of shame and embarrassment that I did. I want this dude a million miles away from my kids. But I think any betrayed spouse would be annoyed.

I expressed my concern to my wife but I got the predictable “you’re over-reacting” and “you’re being critical and controlling” response. I don’t know that the conversation accomplished much, but it was the most healthy and calm conversation we’ve ever had about (ex?) OM. She has had no in-person or phone contact with OM for over a month now as far as I know, and it seems to me that the fog she was in is at least getting a little thinner. She showed me a text he sent saying "I miss my friend" and how she didn't respond. She’s talking about talking to a priest and about going to confession, she’s drinking less and keeping her spending under control. Of course, talk doesn’t mean much without actions. And she could have just become a better liar and the other shoe could drop any day. No expectations!

One of my biggest challenges now is emotional fatigue. Even though my wife can be adversarial, she is also more needy than she used to be. I’m tired of giving her the support and reassurance she never gives me. I’m doing more things on my own (hobbies, professional development, etc...) but when we’re together she wears me out. I guess I should be happy that she’s clingy for me, but still...

Another challenge is that I’m having a harder time not being interested in other women. I’ve lost over 20 pounds since BD, and I’m getting a lot more flirts directed my way than I used to. I’m not interested in any kind of fling, but I sometimes find myself thinking that it would sure be great to be with a woman who is nice to me for a change. I’m still standing, but I’m feeling the effects of a year of living with this replicant the aliens left when they abducted my wife.

But in general I think after one year things are more or less trending in a good direction even if they’re moving slowly. I’m working on getting more of a life for myself and letting her work through her crisis without adding to it. Just controlling what I can control and not worrying too much about fixing what I can’t. Sometimes I feel a little like I did parenting teenagers: like it’s all about minimizing damage until they grow up.

When I’m on this board I understand how mild my situation is and how lucky I am. I see some of the crazy things MLC spouses do and it makes me realize how much worse it could be. So many of you deserve purple hearts for what you’ve been through! Thanks for listening to my petty grievances. 
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline still going

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2017, 02:47:46 PM »
Lovely to hear from you PJ and good to hear you sounding positive/hopeful but without those pesky expectations. I can certainly relate to emotional fatigue. My H is not needy at all - quite the opposite - but the drain of staying light and casual takes its toll in a similar way.

Feel free to let it all out here - there is lots of support just waiting for you, and never feel you have to minimise the severity of the MLC, because the impact it has to a large extent depends on our reaction to it. Some people are more affected by certain behaviours than others.

Make sure you do take time for yourself to recharge and enjoy the attention from other women as the compliment it is. You know you are standing and you know the values you have in your heart. I expect you also know how to behave in a way that lets women know you are flattered but not interested.

Keep posting PJ
MLC started May 2014
MLC H moved out September 2018, divorced same time
Glossary: BH = Bad H, GH = Good H, TH = 'Teenage' H

Still going!

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2017, 05:24:27 AM »
Just a quick update as my time with an official mentor is almost up. (Thanks OP!)
I am not going to die and I normally continue to check up on my mentees although at this point some of them are mentors themselves.

As far as another relationship - I will impart this bit of wisdom.

Best to not enter into another relationship until you have left this one and I suggest you grieve it for at least one month for ever year you have been in it.

So wait until at least 2 years past your divorce before you start a new one.
It gives you time to heal and increases your odds of success.

Their are many things to learn and I suggest you use the time to understand all of them.
For if not you are likely to continue to repeat your mistakes until you do learn the lessons that you are suppose to learn.


Keep posting

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2017, 12:32:31 PM »
Thanks for the advice OP. Glad you'll still be checking on me. I'll keep posting.

Even as I try to avoid expectations, I still have hopes for the marriage I'm in. I guess time will tell, but I've got long way to go before I give up on it. 
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2017, 01:01:22 PM »
Even as I try to avoid expectations, I still have hopes for the marriage I'm in. I guess time will tell, but I've got long way to go before I give up on it.

My point was directed at this
Another challenge is that I’m having a harder time not being interested in other women. I’ve lost over 20 pounds since BD, and I’m getting a lot more flirts directed my way than I used to. I’m not interested in any kind of fling, but I sometimes find myself thinking that it would sure be great to be with a woman who is nice to me for a change.

And I guess my further point is that you can see how easy it is to have an affair when your spouse is not meeting any of your needs.

LBS's are no different that MLC'ers  in this regard.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2017, 03:30:03 PM »
Thanks. I see your point. I didn't express myself very well.

I didn't mean to imply that I would have an affair or that I want to. But you're right, it would be much easier to fall into a PA or EA now than it was before now that my needs (like kindness) aren't being met.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2017, 04:32:40 PM »
I am not accusing you of that - just pointing out how easy it is and giving you the MLC'ers point of view.

More food for thought.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts (now with Round 2!)
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2018, 09:10:49 PM »
Well, I'm back. After about a year of things s-l-o-w-l-y improving and getting to a tolerable-to-ok marriage, I find out my wife has been exchanging sexually-flirtatious messages with some guy a thousand miles away that she met playing online video games. From what I can tell, she's never physically been in the same state as this guy - it's all online.

The emails go back about 3 weeks, which was when started acting sneaky and suspicious again (drinking a lot and hiding her phone). Sunday she left her email open on the computer when she went to bed. So I read her exchanges with this guy. Same deal as 2 years ago: exchanging sexy (but not nude) photos and them telling each other how awesome/brilliant/beautiful/handsome they are. "You're cute." "I heart you." High School level stuff, really.

I confronted her about it, and this time she actually broke down and cried and said she was sorry. She seemed to express genuine remorse and told me that there was something wrong with her and that she needed help. She slips into fantasies and can't get out. She called a counselor for IC.

Aside from the trauma of the situation and the PTSD of reliving her EA from 2 years, I actually feel strangely positive. It seems like she's made progress in that she now at least accepts responsibility and isn't minimizing or deflecting. Or am I just fooling myself?

Not sure how many more of these I can take, but for now I'm back to mirror work and detachment. I'm sad because we were starting to get close again - I almost felt like I had my wife back.

I suspect this kind of cycling is pretty common. Any advice from those of you with live-in MLC spouses? Abandon expectations, I suppose.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:15:42 PM by PJ Ames »
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts (now with Round 2!)
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2018, 12:40:48 AM »
Aside from the trauma of the situation and the PTSD of reliving her EA from 2 years, I actually feel strangely positive. It seems like she's made progress in that she now at least accepts responsibility and isn't minimizing or deflecting. Or am I just fooling myself?

I don't know. Maybe you are fooling yourself, or maybe your wife has made progress and she is just doing a sort of Replay re-do. Time will tell.

I suspect this kind of cycling is pretty common. Any advice from those of you with live-in MLC spouses? Abandon expectations, I suppose.

The cycling is normal. Going back into Replay behaviour is also normal. Don't have a live-in MLCer, but the advise is the same, let go of expectations. And keep looking after yourself.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2018, 03:08:51 AM »
PJ,

I'm glad your W has admitted to the fantasy life and realizing she needs help.
Once they get too far into it that fantasy obsession, it's very hard to stop without professional help.

I would just encourage her if she says she will talk to someone.  You can't make her go but you can agree it's a good idea.

Other than that all you can do is take care of yourself and try to detach as much as you can and have no expectations.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2018, 03:20:24 AM »
And up your self-care
I think there is a sinking feeling of despair and exhaustion when something returns that we thought we had moved past, and that can do a number on our wellbeing imho.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2018, 05:31:17 AM »
Hi PJ,

Just my 2 cents here.  My H has never left and had a separate fanatasy life much like your W.  He kept one foot in our marriage and one foot out.  He had an affair, texted other women, went out drinking and was an all around party boy.  He was able to do it all in another town that he had business in.  It went on for 2 years with him disrespecting our marriage, our family and our lives.  It wasn’t until I started backing off, getting my own life and throwing up boundaries that things started to change.  Last July I finally completely dropped the rope after finding text messages to a flight attendant.  I made him move out of our bedroom and I stopped being his wife completely.  No laundry, no cooking no sharing any part of my life. 

It took me a while to realize it but my past marriage was gone.  I mourned its loss for what used to be but realized it had turned into something I didn’t want.  At this point my H panicked and decided he needed therapy.  I believe this too was a turning point for us and hope it is for you too.  I didn’t help him find a therapist as I would have done in the past.  I made him do it all on his own. Today he is proud of this fact. 

PJ it’s been said on here so many times that the only person you can control is yourself.  I find this truth more and more everyday.  I’m happier with me, I stand up for myself and I let my H and others know if I feel disrespected now.  I can’t stress enough that you need to turn your back and let your W figure things out for herself.  Save yourself first and everything else will change.
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2018, 02:30:59 PM »
Thank you Anjae, Thunder, Treasur, and 9393roo.

It seems pretty clear to me today that I let myself re-attach before she was fully cooked. Very frustrating because she seemed so much better. I really thought we were starting to come out the other side - and in less than three years. Oh well.

One note I haven't shared here. BD #1 happened not long after she was diagnosed with osteo and psoriatic arthritis. She is taking the aging thing very hard. She also had a hip replacement a few months ago. For about 6 months before surgery she was walking with a cane. I took time off from work to stay home with her after surgery and take care of her. I did all the housework, driving, shopping, etc.. for quite a while. We spent a lot of time together I felt like we were really close.

For a while after her surgery she used a walker and then a cane. Now that I think about it, it was probably hard for her to relive her wild and reckless youth when she was using a cane to get around! EA #2 started shortly after the time she started walking normally and finished Physical Therapy. Probably not coincidental.

For now I'm working on me again:exercising, reading, walking the dog, spending time with friends.  Re-detachment. (Ow!)

Thanks again for the kind words and good advice.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2018, 03:16:04 PM »
PJ Ames

Just caught up a bit on your story and wanted to make sure you have read BBHelp’s thread. His W was live-in MLCer, she also went back to replay when he thought they were getting close again and they are now fully reconciled and they renewed their wedding vows a few weeks ago.

It must be tough thinking you are getting through it only to find those messages. Even the thought of it makes me feel sick!

Sending you strength
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2018, 05:27:15 PM »
It seems pretty clear to me today that I let myself re-attach before she was fully cooked. Very frustrating because she seemed so much better. I really thought we were starting to come out the other side - and in less than three years. Oh well.

Don't beat yourself up. It is impossible to kn a MLCer is really better and ready to fully moved forward, or when they seemed ready, are must better, then go back inside the fog/regress.

Now that I think about it, it was probably hard for her to relive her wild and reckless youth when she was using a cane to get around! EA #2 started shortly after the time she started walking normally and finished Physical Therapy. Probably not coincidental.

Maybe not coincidental, but who knows. On the other hand, it is quite impossible to lead a wild eckless youth relievd life when walking with a walker or a kane. She probably felt old and ill, and know that she is feeling better, though she needs to recover on "lost time".

For now I'm working on me again:exercising, reading, walking the dog, spending time with friends.  Re-detachment. (Ow!)

Excellent. As you know, there is nothing you can do for her wife. She has to live her crisis. But there is a lot you can do for you.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2018, 07:19:38 PM »
If there is any bright spot? In all of this I would take away the fact that your W is ready to start addressing some issues with an IC.  Like I said before I THINK that may have been a turning point for my H.  His concern for me and our marriage seems more genuine than it has in his past cycling. I have been up and down and sideways with all of his behaviors.  I have attached and detached so very often. I don’t trust anything anymore. I try to find my own peace in this madness and keep marching forward. If your W actually follows through with IC, I would take that as a positive sign and encourage it.  I wish you well. 
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2018, 09:36:43 PM »
Just caught up a bit on your story and wanted to make sure you have read BBHelp’s thread. His W was live-in MLCer, she also went back to replay when he thought they were getting close again and they are now fully reconciled and they renewed their wedding vows a few weeks ago.
I did read BBHelp's thread! It was really encouraging. A little flicker of hope really helps! Thanks also to roo and Anjae. Knowing that there's someone out there who can empathize with me means a lot.


"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2018, 10:39:19 AM »
I think Anjae might be on to something with picking up where they left off after an illness or injury.  Last spring my H had a scare with what we thought might be a brain aneurism. His replay settled down completely and he became kind and caring and we faced all the tests together.  He was given a clean bill of health and immediately jumped right back into replay.  I was distraught and felt used only for giving him comfort when he needed it. 

These MLC spouses are on their own timelines and need to face their issues completely.  I’m slowly learning that too.  I do see changes in my H for the better almost everyday now. I take them at face value and move on.  Don’t know if this helps but thought I would share.
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2018, 08:54:08 PM »
Thanks Roo. Your husband sounds a lot like my wife. I do think the health issue may be relevant.

My wife was almost completely her old self for a couple of months after her hip replacement surgery. I was thinking we were past the worst of her crisis. But after she recovered and got her energy back, she went right back into replay and OM #2 entered the picture. And OM #1 came along right after her arthritis appeared in the first place.

Maybe it's tied to fear of aging and/or fear of death? I don't know. I wish I understand better so I could prepare for what's coming. But whatever the cause of her crisis, it's hers. I have to remind myself to keep working on myself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2018, 06:39:40 PM »
Maybe it's tied to fear of aging and/or fear of death?

For several MCLers, yes.

But whatever the cause of her crisis, it's hers. I have to remind myself to keep working on myself.

This.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2018, 06:51:24 PM »
I think I have a Wallower on my hands!

Here's why I'm thinking this. After OM #1, my wife totally deflected and minimized the whole EA. "We're just friends," "Why are you so critical and controlling?" "I said I'm sorry once - why can't you get over it?"

But after OM#2 (a total only fantasy alienator- he lives in another state and they started messaging each other via a video game), she has gone to the opposite extreme. Wallowing in guilt and shame. Withdrawing from me because she's embarrassed. "You're a better person than me, PJ." "I'm empty inside." "There's something wrong with me."

In other words, the bachelorette party is over and the pity party has begun!

From the list of attributes of a low-energy MLC, she has met every attribute except moving out of the bedroom. Nice to know I may have that to look forward to!  :-\

Attributes of Low-Energy MLCers (https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/low-energy-wallow-lifes-pity-party/)
Fantasy Affair
Emotional Affair
Workaholic
Work may become an alienator
Overt Depression
Less Monster
Crisis may seem milder
Suppressed anger and rage
Move out of the marriage bedroom

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2018, 11:58:53 PM »
Can't imagine how draining it must be to live with a Wallower.
My only thought is that depression can be contagious so please look after your own mental health, pj. Figure out some small things you can do which make you feel better...exercise, a hobby, doesn't matter what...but you need to make your health a priority when life is hard.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2018, 03:08:32 PM »
Treasur,

Yep, it's exhausting. But I think a high energy monstering type might be worse.

I've been exercising like crazy. It helps lift my mood and makes me physically tired so I can sleep better. It's the best therapy I've found. Plus my cholesterol and blood sugar numbers are great! So there's one good side effect of my wife's MLC!  :-\
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2018, 12:16:41 PM »
As of today, I am officially separated. Temporarily at least. My wife has been talking about spending a few days airing out her head helping her friend (female friend who is great) fix her up new house (a real fixer-upper). She finally decided to go through with it and let me know she will not be coming home after work today. She now says she's planning on coming home on weekends and will be back for good on Dec. 19. If she follows her plan we will spend about 10 days apart.

I neither believe her nor disbelieve her. It wouldn't surprise me if she came home tomorrow and it wouldn't surprise me if she never came home at all.

She's been talking about this for a while, so it's not a surprise. I think in some ways it might actually be good for her to step away from the situation and to do some manual labor.

On the other hand, I find it incredibly selfish to leave me at a time when I need her the most. It also seems like an escalation in putting distance between us.

In one way, I feel a bit relieved. It will be nice to have some time at home for myself to rest, exercise, play guitar, etc... It will be nice to not walk on eggshells for a while.

She also starts counseling tomorrow. Finally. Her plan is to go see her IC for a while and then transition into marriage counseling. I'm trying to be as supportive and encouraging as I can.

Any advice from the veterans on how to handle a "temporary separation?"
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2018, 02:16:01 PM »
Any advice from the veterans on how to handle a "temporary separation?"

One day at a time and without expectations. Hope she returns December 19. Be prepared in case she does not. MLCers change their mind and it is impossible to know what she will decide.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2018, 04:14:42 PM »
Thanks Anjae. I keep telling myself "I've been through worse."

Also, "if I expect nothing, I'll be grateful for everything."

So far today I'm having good moments and not-so-good moments.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2018, 04:20:01 PM »
PJ

I think time apart is normally a good thing with MLC, for the LBS at least. You will be able to breathe.

I was worried a bit when you said ‘it’s a time when you need her the most’ as for now you can’t lean on her for anything. It’s not good for you or her, she’s too fragile and can barely look after herself. Come on here and lean on us to help you and find other ways, running maybe or IC, to help yourself as that is how you will get the inner strength to deal with this.

Glad you like her female friend.
Enjoy this time apart and be kind to yourself

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2018, 04:58:43 PM »
You're absolutely right, Rose. I can't lean on her for anything. She has a habit of running away after she hurts me, which I find even more hurtful than her EA and online affair. But you're right.

Reading what I wrote I can almost hear myself singing "Cause youuuuuuu left me, just when I needed you most." Ugh. Now I'm wallowing!

I'm going to start writing a short story tonight. In my present scatter-brained condition, I'm sure the first draft will be horrible. But I think it will be healthy for me. I've been working out every day. It helps.

Thanks!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2018, 02:00:24 PM »
Reading what I wrote I can almost hear myself singing "Cause youuuuuuu left me, just when I needed you most." Ugh. Now I'm wallowing!


Wallow away. That is also what your thread is for.

I'm going to start writing a short story tonight. In my present scatter-brained condition, I'm sure the first draft will be horrible. But I think it will be healthy for me. I've been working out every day. It helps.

Writing a short story is great. Don't worry if the first draft will be horrible. Working our does help.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2018, 07:59:42 PM »
Thanks Anjae. I've made some progress on the story. The main character has a wife who is in MLC. Writing about what I know about, I suppose.

This will probably be one of those things where I write a raw draft now and come back to it in a few years when I'm not so close to the situation (I hope!). But it really helps to try to find some material to make something creative out of this madness.

I think working out is helping me wear out my body so I sleep better. I slept 6 hours straight last night! The anxiety of this temporary separation (almost two days down, 8 to go?) is so much worse for me than the pain of her EAs. The uncertainty of it all is a struggle.

In other news, my wife had her fist session with an IC today. I didn't ask her about it at all, just told her I realized how brave she was for taking such a difficult step. Hopefully it helps her. At least now she's talking about things rather than just ignoring the proverbial elephant. Personally, I had kind of acclimated to navigating around the elephant. Finally starting to deal with things is dangerous!

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2018, 11:08:44 PM »
Good luck with the story.

Finally starting to deal with things is dangerous!

I guess it is. Hope the IC is able to help your wife.

8 days to go is not much. Most of us have a MLCer who has been gone for years. But, we've also had plenty of time to get used to it.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2018, 03:19:37 AM »
Hope writing is cathartic, PJ.
Good news on the sleep front too.
Yes, the uncertainty and sense of limbo is hard whether for a few days, weeks or months. Or years as Anjae says.

How can you use the next 8 days to top up your own batteries?
And out of interest, as you mentioned encouraging her about the IC, are you initiating contact or is she? Most folks say it is helpful in these kinds of spaces for you not to initiate any contact at all, just respond if she does and follow her tone. It's an awful temptation to try to hold on and grasp at the old connection, I know, but maybe if you do there's risk that this bit of space won't work as well for either off you?

Easier if you don't have kids of course, can't remember if you do?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2018, 03:18:40 PM »
Thanks Treasur. Definitely hoping to use the low-drama time to charge my batteries. I slept for 8 hours straight last night. I feel like Superman today. Or at least a human.

She's called me each night so far. We just talk for a few minutes. I've been keeping it light.

She actually came home for the day today. She says she plans to stay the night and go back to her friends house tomorrow afternoon. She just took my daughter shopping so I had a chance to jump on here. We've had a really good day - Christmas shopping, decorating the tree. No relationship talks at all.

Yes, we have two kids. They are college students. They technically live with us, but they are both very busy with work, college, social life, etc...  As far as they know, my wife is just helping her friend fix up her house. We may have to have a discussion with them in a week or so, but for now, it's not an issue with them. They know my wife has started counseling as well.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2018, 03:44:06 PM »
Catching up PJ. 
How are you doing my friend?
My kids don't have a clue of MLC. I've never said a word. Few months my W was in IC, I covered for her if boys ask where she was.
Just seeing how your doing?

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2018, 09:52:12 PM »
Thanks for checking in, HelpingMe!

I'm doing pretty well. Better, I think. The anxiety of the time leading up to the separation was worse than the separation itself.

And my wife now says she is coming home tomorrow, which is earlier than planned. When I talked to her on the phone tonight she said she can't wait to get home. She sounded really tired. I think sleeping on her friend's sofa has not been as much fun as she thought it would be. Imagine that.

My son is graduating from college on Saturday and my mother is coming in from out of state for the graduation and staying for a few days, so things will be pretty hectic around the house. (But not as stressful as your Christmas!) My wife and I probably won't have much of an opportunity to discuss things before she leaves for a 2-day work trip next week, but that's OK.

My wife has her second appointment with her IC Friday. She's excited about it. We'll see.

I'm definitely not happy about the separation, but I feel like I've survived more or less intact. Just trying to ride out the storm.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2018, 06:54:47 AM »
Good to hear W is coming back early.
I've said many times I wish my W would leave awhile and give me a break. But that's me talking, she never left. I'd probably feel otherwise if she did leave.
I hope yall have a good weekend.  Its good to stay busy. No time for talks is a good thing imo.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2018, 06:59:27 AM »
No time for talks is a good thing imo.

Agree with Help, light and polite is the best way. It’s really important.

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2018, 08:34:02 AM »
Rose - "light and polite" is a great model. I'm trying to make it less stressful for her to be home than to be away.

Helping - the break from her drama was nice. My anxiety came from a fear that she was creating space to take her EA to a PA. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Her friend really made her do manual labor in exchange for room and board (yay Wendy!) I was also concerned that she would enjoy being apart more than being together. I think seeing me (especially seeing me hurting) reminds her of what she did and makes her feel guilty. Some day she'll have to face up to the both her EAs and her escaping and avoiding, but that day is not today.

I hope that your fruitbat never leaving will be one less obstacle on the road to reconciliation.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2018, 10:10:58 AM »
Well, these past few days have been busy and I haven't had time to post. On Thursday W came home acting like nothing had ever happened and it's all back to normal. The 2-week separation she talked about turned into 5 days, more or less. She was planning on going to her friend's house tonight for a few more days, but now she isn't.

My mother also came for a visit from out of state and just left today. It was OK. Draining, but OK.

On Saturday, my S24 graduated from college (finally) and also proposed (finally!) to his girlfriend of three years. She said yes. DIL-to-be a great young woman and my wife and I like her very much. My son couldn't have picked a better partner. But I know this is still going to be a stressor for W.

So for now I'm just rolling with it. I'll be giving my W a little space and quiet to process the big events. And I could use some downtime myself.

I think that accepting her home with no questions asked is the best course of action for now. She's definitely not fully cooked, but she is going to IC and says she is going to continue. She also asked me if I was familiar with the term "Emotional Affair" which she had heard about in counseling. She said she didn't think she had one, since she was never "emotionally connected" with her "friends." But she was going to treat her "friendships that got a little carried away" as EAs since I might think they were. I just said "hmm, OK." Minimization, anyone? Sheesh!

Once we finally start talking about her last EA/fantasy A (?) (a ridiculous long-distance relationship with some dude she met playing online video games) and her separating from me for a while, she may not like what I have to say. But I don't know how to resolve anything in her current condition.

So for now I feel like I've survived another round and I'm declaring a small victory. Onward!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2018, 10:47:50 AM »
Congrats for your son for both!!!!
PJ
My W said same thing about EA.  I found out about them talking first.  She said just friends, ha.
Next month I found out it was PA.
She cdnt deny that.
They have to admit it's wrong first.  Hopefully she keeps working in the right direction, IC will do some good too.

Hang in there man.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2018, 09:19:32 AM »
Good for you getting a victory. It’s not easy and you navigated through.

Just rolling with it is perfect. When you think you can’t roll any more, roll some more!

As time goes on you might not want to dredge all the EA/fantasy A up but you are right, you can’t resolve anything in her current condition. It’s up to her and going to IC is a great start.

Keep your eyes off of her and focus on yourself for a while, you deserve it
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2018, 10:01:57 AM »
Thanks HelpingMe! and Rose. Not much new here other than just rolling along. I'm trying to keep things light and polite, but I feel like I'm faking it. I'm still flabbergasted by my W's behavior. I guess I'll just fake it till I make it.

My IC wants me to ask my wife for a start date for MC. He thinks I should be more assertive and set some firmer boundaries. (Easy for him to say - he doesn't have to live with her!) I'm conflicted about it. I know she has to want MC and any attempts by me to push it will appear to her like I'm attempting to control her. She's hyper sensitive about that.

W has an IC session today so I sent her a gentle nudge text asking her if she was going to bring up MC with her IC today and asked if she thought the end of February was doable. Now I'm thinking I may have messed up a little. We'll see.

Holiday best wishes to everyone!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #80 on: December 21, 2018, 10:10:55 AM »
PJ
I'm still faking alot of it. It works, so I'll keep doing it.
I'm not saying you messed up. But I wouldn't ask her about MC. Like you said. Your IC is clueless to this nightmare.  She seems to be trying. I wouldn't pressure her in any way. Just let her keep easing along.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2018, 10:19:30 AM »
Yeah, I don't think it has to be a big deal, but I do think I may may have messed up a bit. I should be more patient. I just get tired of walking on eggshells sometimes.

But, we have a date night tonight (stupid comedy movie night), so I intend to spend the entire evening with her and not bring it up at all. Hopefully that helps her.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2018, 10:26:10 AM »
Hmm, your IC might need a refresher on boundaries imho.
Pushing her to act is not a boundary. A boundary is about your actions and what you need, not what she will do. Trust your instinct, you know your w best.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2018, 01:19:37 PM »
You're right Treasur. I tried to gently nudge things forward. Which of course may actually cause my wife's cooking to go slower.

I've been feeling a little impatient lately, and I may be feeling my own youth slipping away a bit. I turned 50 (yikes!) last month and now with my son getting engaged and he and his fiancée wanting kids soon, I'm feeling the passage of time & generations myself. Meanwhile, I'm still married to a woman who has been stuck in a funk and acting like a petulant teenager for almost 3 years. I'm tired of this.

I keep forgetting to work on myself and not my situation. I'm a slow learner.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2018, 02:04:28 PM »
PJ it took me soooo long to learn the lesson or not poking and prodding. It thought that I could control the situation but all it did in the long run was make it worse.

I also used to think MC would be a good thing and would make my H “wake up” and see what he has done is wrong.  I think just the opposite now.  I think MC would push my H right back into the fog.  He is not ready to face things right now.  I have tossed the idea of MC back onto my H and made it his responsibility to find one and make an appointment.  When he asked his IC about it, she told him he was not ready for it yet.  I was so relieved and told my H to take his time.

Our spouses have a long way to go before they can accept what has happened and start repairing the damage they have caused us.  I get glimpses of the “oh s*#% look what I have done” look every once in awhile but it never lasts.  You have to look away and move forward.  Easier said than done sometimes I know. 

Have a peaceful holiday!
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2018, 02:43:33 PM »
Thanks Roo. You're right, of course. It's taken 2 1/2 years for my W to get to the point where she was ready to start IC, admit that she has a problem and actually show some tiny signs of remorse. I've allowed myself to get greedy for things to go faster.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2018, 07:36:20 PM »
Sounds as if you might want to be a bit more 'greedy' about working on yourself and your own life? (Not in an MLC way lol)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2018, 09:55:35 PM »
You are correct Treasur. Like Old Pilot says, I have been given the gift of time. I should be using it to work on myself and not trying to be Mr. Fix-it. I usually remember that, but sometimes I forget and it comes back to bite me.

W came home this afternoon looking terrible. She said she had been crying off and on all day because of my message. My message to her had been, "Hey, do you think we could come up with a start date for MC?  Do you think February is doable? Let me know what you think." And because of that she cried all day. It's like I'm the Grand Inquisitor or something.

So I took her out for dinner and a movie. We saw Aquaman. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. We had a really good time.

I'm trying hard to accept the fact that it may be a long time before I can have a serious, grown-up discussion with W. Which is sad, but it also makes me appreciate even more all of you on this board who listen to me vent. Thank you!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2018, 04:35:03 AM »
Well, guess it's for her to figure out why that was her reaction...
Guess it tells you that prodding the MC button as your IC suggested is not helpful for you.
So onwards, pj, with your own stuff

What are you greedy for?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #89 on: December 22, 2018, 01:31:19 PM »
It seems pretty obvious now that she's not ready for MC yet. If my suggesting it causes her to melt down, how is she going to handle actually talking about what she's done?

What am I greedy for, Treasur? If you put a truth serum in me, I'd say I'm greedy for things to get back to normal. I'm greedy for my W to be a sane adult that can have a healthy discussion about grown-up issues.

But that's obviously not going to happen any time soon.

So I'm deciding to be greedy for being a healthy person, regardless of her condition. I have a lot more time off for the holiday break than my W, so I'm thinking about some goals for the year. I'm thinking about a fitness goal, a musical instrument to learn, and a new creative writing project to focus on. I'm thinking about the person I want to be this time next year.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline StormChaser

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2019, 04:16:03 PM »
Hey PJ,

Remember that your old normal is gone. Dead. Poof.

My wife was just an MLT - took her just under 2 years to recommit back to our marriage. But during it she had her PA, monstered and baited and did everything that many MLCers do.

Everytime I poked and prodded it never ended well. Our MC was brief, but helpful - more important was her getting out of the tunnel for good. When she did, things got better as she worked on herself - she wasn't able to do that until she finished baking. In the meantime, I just worked on doing my half of the marriage to the best of my abilities.

Stormchaser.
Me - 48
MLC W - 48
Together 18 yrs
Married 14 yrs
S 12
S 10
S 8
BD June 1 2016
Home Dec 23 2016
Recommited to our M Sept 2017

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2019, 12:56:33 PM »
Wow, I just noticed I haven't posted in a long time. With holidays and some travels, I've been a little out of pocket. Plus, not much has changed until yesterday.

Thanks Stormchaser. Your reminder is appreciated and was timely. The frustrating thing about my W is the Jekyll and Hyde nature of her cycling. I get to thinking she's semi-normal again and then I get a reminder that she is still in the tunnel. But I guess I'm getting used to it and I'm recovering a lot quicker.

Here's what's been going on with me in the past few weeks:
  • Holidays were great. Almost like old times.
  • W and I went on a couple-only vacation for 4 days. It was great. Again, almost like old times.
  • No relationship talks. Light and polite.
  • Last night my W was obviously hiding what she was doing on her phone. I (stupidly, maybe?) asked her what she was doing and she admitted she was still emailing OM#2 - a dude she met playing online video games (and has never met in person). She had sent him photos of our vacation! He is apparently down in the dumps over some unrelated things (unemployed, etc...) and she was trying to cheer him up.
I don't even know what to say about it anymore. The entire situation is so stupid and ridiculous. She showed me the emails and they weren't all that bad. But her hiding things is what makes it feel like she's still cheating. And I hate the way she seems to leave the door cracked open to him. At least she's being honest now I guess. I'm just tired of feeling like a chump. She clearly has no fear of any negative consequences from hurting me and is constantly seeing how close to the edge she can get. Trying to live in the gray areas. Testing boundaries! I just told her she can't be married to me and still act like she's single and left it at that.

I'm going to work on some of my own things this weekend and give her and myself some space. We just spent four days together almost around the clock, so I could use the solitude. If she wants to talk, she knows where to find me. I feel like we've been making progress over the past few months, but it is at the speed of a glacier.

Hey mods, how do I get a new thread? I'm not a super-frequent poster since my situation is not nearly as severe as most folks here, but my situation has changed over time. Should I just change the title of my existing thread?
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2019, 01:21:05 PM »
PJ
Sounds good to get some me time. Enjoy it.
As for W, I think it's good she was honest. But she shouldn't be emailing any man. In normal life, she would know that.  In their fantasy reality doesn't exist life, well emailing another man while your H is standing there, that's no big deal. It is just crazy my friend.
Glad you had a good Holiday and a good trip. I'm in same boat I guess. Enjoy the good and be ready to get out of the way when needed.
As for the chump thing. Not a chance my friend. It's takes a man to hang in there. So your doing just fine.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2019, 02:07:46 PM »
Quote
As for the chump thing. Not a chance my friend. It's takes a man to hang in there. So your doing just fine.

Thanks HelpingMe. That means a lot to me. It really does.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2019, 01:18:56 PM »
PJ
Sounds good to get some me time. Enjoy it.
As for W, I think it's good she was honest. But she shouldn't be emailing any man. In normal life, she would know that.  In their fantasy reality doesn't exist life, well emailing another man while your H is standing there, that's no big deal. It is just crazy my friend.
Glad you had a good Holiday and a good trip. I'm in same boat I guess. Enjoy the good and be ready to get out of the way when needed.
As for the chump thing. Not a chance my friend. It's takes a man to hang in there. So your doing just fine.

This whole thing was great Help.

PJ if it helps BBHelps wife did a similar thing while they were on vacation if I remember correctly. She bought him a souvenir back I think! Crazy, as a Helping, says. Good though that you told her that’s not on.

(Starting a new thread is normally when you reach 150 comments then you think of a new title and just start another one and leave this one. Someone can link them so your story stays together. All the stories are different from each other, some more severe than others but all are important.)

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2019, 01:45:52 PM »
A souvenir for the OM while on vacation with H? Ouch! That's beyond crazy.

Thanks Rose. I'll start a new thread soon. It's interesting to look back at my first ones and see how far I've come. I was a mess for a while. I'm still a bit of a mess, but I feel like I recover a lot more quickly than I used to. I keep getting sucked back into attachment when my wife seems normal, but at least I'm recognizing the pattern. And I know I can survive a lot of pain and come out (more or less) OK.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2019, 02:49:42 PM »
Your reply was #95 (can you see that near the date/time?) so you have a few comments left before getting to #150 for new thread so no rush.

It’s great you are not staying low as long when you are hit with the crazy! Good for you,I know what you mean when the MLCer seems normal at times.

Have a good night
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2019, 11:09:44 AM »
Now 3 years since MIL's stroke and my W started withdrawing and showing signs of MLC (2 ½ since BD#1), so I’m feeling a bit reflective today.

Here are a few of things I’ve learned:
  • I think the low-energy nature of W’s MLC (or maybe MLT, I’m not sure) has been partly due to her own health issues (bad hip and arthritis). She has no physical energy and she’s looking kind of ragged. I’m not sure if that’s good or not. Maybe it minimizes damage, but maybe it takes longer for her to work through it? Don't know.
  • Her teenage years were a lot more chaotic than I understood. Part of why she is acting like such a petulant teenager may be because that was her age when she had family drama that she never resolved. (duh, you say)
  • I will be fine. Whether she comes out of the tunnel and we fully reconnect, or if we go our separate ways, I will be OK. I want to be with her until death do us part, but if not I will be fine.

Here’s what’s helped me:
  • I keep a gratitude journal – just a few bullet points every night. After a couple of weeks, I noticed that it really helped me think about what was good and less about what wasn’t.
  • Exercise and sleep
  • You all! Thanks!

Progress is glacial speed, but W seems to be doing a little better. Less time on her phone and computer and more time interacting with other humans. Also less time with her drinking buddies. With S getting married in Sept., I don’t think my W is planning anything drastic before then, but you never know. 

Me, I'm getting a better life and learning to be more grateful. But I'm t-i-r-e-d.

Haven’t posted much lately because not much has happened, so I’m journaling a bit here. Life with a live-in wallower is no fun and has low entertainment value. Not much of a soap opera - just a long, sad, b-o-r-i-n-g documentary.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online One day at a time

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2019, 11:52:46 AM »
The main thing is that you know you will be OK.. I know that's the case for me too, not what I want but fine either way..

My wallower is not a live-in but I understand the comment about low entertainment value.. Nothing really happens, time seems to stand still for them..
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2019, 01:21:43 PM »
Quote
I will be fine. Whether she comes out of the tunnel and we fully reconnect, or if we go our separate ways, I will be OK. I want to be with her until death do us part, but if not I will be fine.

This right here is what I believe was the turning point for me as a LBS.  I believe everyone needs to reach this point to truly let go.  Congratulations for getting here PJ.  🙂
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2019, 02:49:35 AM »
Hey mods, how do I get a new thread? I'm not a super-frequent poster since my situation is not nearly as severe as most folks here, but my situation has changed over time. Should I just change the title of my existing thread?

Once you get to 150 posts, start a new thread. If you do it early, one of us will be along shortly to merge the old and new threads because, otherwise, it is too hard to keep track of who is doing what to whom and when....

You can change the title of your existing thread as you see fit though...

UM
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2019, 03:53:51 AM »
PJ
You said you will be fine either way??? GOOD my friend. That's only way to be. I told W once when I was fed up, I DAMN sure don't need you!!! I still want You, but you taught me that I don't NEED you.
It's good to get to that point.
As for the boring live in, well I understand that too. Never and big huge moments. Just ANOTHER dull day in MLC land.
Feeling tired is normal to. We get burnt out on trying stay peaceful and just ease along. Just try and live my friend. Just move on and let her be. Questioning what we say, what we do, what we Did, etc. Is exhausting. 
Somedays I felt like the salted snail dragging my a$$ .
We just have to let it ALL go.
Hang in there ole boy. Your doing good.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2019, 05:05:06 AM »
PJ,

If you are anything like me, you will come to find that "normal" and what some would call "boring"  may not be a bad thing compared to the "dancing in the mine field" existence that is dealing with a Mid-Lifer.....

Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online One day at a time

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2019, 05:25:14 AM »
PJ,

If you are anything like me, you will come to find that "normal" and what some would call "boring"  may not be a bad thing compared to the "dancing in the mine field" existence that is dealing with a Mid-Lifer.....


I so agree with that! After reading so many horror stories in this forum, I can really see that wallowers might kill the relationship due to their slow progress but certainly a lot less damage to us as LBSs.. I admire people who have been in a the battlefield with their MLCers for years, I don't know if I would have coped with something like they have... Certainly a lot of strength required!
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #104 on: January 30, 2019, 07:44:21 AM »
Thanks Roo, OneDay, HelpingMe and UM.

Helping - "A salted snail dragging my a$$." That's awesome. I'm just muddling through sometimes.

One Day - I know what you mean about reading the horror stories. I can't imagine what I would do if my W did some of the BSC awful things I read about here. So I do think I got kind of "lucky" in having a live-in wallower. But it's really draining being around a depressed and confused person all the time.

I got a gif from UM! I feel like one of the cool kids now! I'll change my thread title when I think of something that fits. Maybe I'll change it to "A salted snail dragging my a$$."
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #105 on: January 30, 2019, 02:06:06 PM »
PJ

I like your title, won’t be long until you reach 150 posts at this rate!

Before I realised this was MLC I told my H that ‘I know I said for better or for worse but I don’t think I can cope with depression, I can’t live like this’.

You are right it’s so draining, that’s why it’s important to GAL.

Here’s what’s helped me:
  • I keep a gratitude journal – just a few bullet points every night. After a couple of weeks, I noticed that it really helped me think about what was good and less about what wasn’t.
  • Exercise and sleep
  • You all! Thanks!

I love this and ‘Thanks’ to you too for your updates, it’s great hearing how things are going. You are such a positive genuine person and have helped me too.

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Online One day at a time

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2019, 02:15:24 PM »
Yep, I agree that living with a depressed MLC spouse can be draining.. I had it for 7 months and I really didn't understand what was going on.. I do remember crying a good few times, getting frustrated, feeling completely alone and unloved and walking on eggshells!! Not to mention a good few WTF moments and the feeling I had an alien in the house..

The advantage you have PJ is that you know you need to give her space and you need to live your life as best you can.. I didn't so I continued to poke the alien to see if I could get my H back.. Didn't work!
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2019, 04:13:22 PM »
Thanks Rose and OneDay.

OneDay: Yes, WTF moments galore here too. Walking on eggshells, feeling completely bumfuzzled. It's taken me a long time to realize I needed to give her space. After first BD, I assumed it was about me and me not being attentive. So I did the exact opposite thing I now realize I should have done. I tried to be more attentive to her and to ask lots of questions about her feelings. Your seven months weren't long enough to figure much out when your H metamorphasized.

Rose: Thanks. I do try to be positive. But I've had my freakout moments too, especially early on. I'm such a slow learner here, but I'm very glad I've been able to help you at least a little.

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2019, 02:45:13 AM »
OneDay: Yes, WTF moments galore here too. Walking on eggshells, feeling completely bumfuzzled. It's taken me a long time to realize I needed to give her space. After first BD, I assumed it was about me and me not being attentive. So I did the exact opposite thing I now realize I should have done. I tried to be more attentive to her and to ask lots of questions about her feelings. Your seven months weren't long enough to figure much out when your H metamorphasized.

EXACTLY my story as well... from BD1 in August to NukeBD in December, I did EVERYTHING wrong.... and, well, we are separated and I'm waiting for her final D papers to arrive... Would it have changed anything if I followed the LBS guidelines? I don't know, probably not as she was also being egged on by TFs......

Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online One day at a time

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2019, 05:53:12 AM »
That's what I always wonder UM, would have made any difference if I had realized what was happening and I didn't push him? But to be honest, even if I knew, I'm not sure I would have been able to pull back or follow the LBS guidelines.. So for H and I, the separation was probably inevitable.. D has not come into the equation because no matter what, we need to wait another 3+ years but that does not mean he wouldn't have filed if he could!!

So PJ, you might feel it's "mild in comparison" but I think we are all in agreement that it doesn't make it any easier or less hurtful.. it's a different type of pain probably. Fair play to you for lasting this long, I think I would've lost my head after a couple of years..
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2019, 07:27:20 AM »
I wonder about that too. "If I had known then what I know now?" I think best LBS practices would have helped ME a lot, but I don't know if it would have helped the marriage.

The curveball in my situation is W's health. She had hip replacement surgery this summer and was suffering with a bad hip for a long time before that. So she was dependent on me for a lot. We got pretty close during her surgery and recovery time. Almost back to the old normal. I was actually thinking maybe there was not actually an MLC happening and OM1 was just an abberation. Then, as soon as she recovered from surgery, she started with OM2.  :-[

In her case, both OMs were just EAs and both are out of town. OM2 is out of state. (OM1 is a work colleague - same company different town and rarely in the same location). I think her lack of physical energy may contribute to the low energy nature of her MLC and her not having a PA so far. I also wonder now if her slow motion MLC is going to take her longer.

But there's not much I can do but work on myself and getting my own life. Onward!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #111 on: February 05, 2019, 08:24:50 AM »
Changing my thread title to reflect my new reality. I would wait to start a new one, but I’m in the middle of this slow-motion train wreck of my W’s crisis where there’s not much for me to post because not much changes. So it may take a while to get to 150!

I know my situation is still not as difficult as many here, but it’s gone on a long time and probably will go on a lot longer. So, I’m hunkered down for a long haul, working on myself, coping with emotional starvation, and trying to live my best life.

Here’s one new positive development. S23 has just accepted a job as a patient transporter at a hospital. He announced to us that he giving up drinking completely because he will be dealing with a lot of emotional situations at the hospital and he doesn’t want to drink in order to cope with it. He hasn’t been a heavy drinker, but he was known to have a few after college finals, etc... Also, STB DIL’s father is an alcoholic and STB DIL doesn’t drink at all. 

Of course my W drinks almost every day as a coping mechanism for stress (and depression I think). She had the deer-in-headlights look on her face when he made his announcement. He’s a great kid! :)
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #112 on: February 05, 2019, 09:06:27 AM »
Nice to hear your S decided to give up drinking.  Bet that hit your W right in the gut.
No way to cope with your problems, just complicates them more.

Congrats on his new job, too   :)
You must be so proud.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2019, 01:40:26 PM »

I know my situation is still not as difficult as many here, but it’s gone on a long time and probably will go on a lot longer. So, I’m hunkered down for a long haul, working on myself, coping with emotional starvation, and trying to live my best life.


Your situation is just as difficult as anyone's here--but I like your positive attitude!  No matter the circumstances, it is always painful when the one who promised to love us no matter what has completely emotionally detached, and has connected with another.  Of course, we understand that new "connection" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, but it is painful nonetheless.

Congrats on S's job and his no more drinking proclamation. I have been using my Chardonnay as a band-aid of sorts too and just recently decided no more.  I think reading your thread today inspired me even more. You are doing great. Hunkering down, living our best lives and leaving the MLCers alone is all we can do.  And you are doing it!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Hunkered Down for the Long Haul
« Reply #114 on: February 05, 2019, 08:42:23 PM »
Thanks Thunder and KeepItTogether.

Yes, very proud of both my kids. They are doing well and are kind, thoughtful people. And my W has been a great Mom. Her issues didn't really start up until the kids were in college, and she deserves a lot of credit for our kids growing into such great adults. 

I'm in a weird place where my kids are acting more mature than my W. I remember when my D used to remind me of my W. Now my W sometimes reminds me of my D when she was a teenager.

Thunder - Yeah, that had to hurt. But I'm not saying a thing about it unless she asks.

KeepIt - Thanks for the kind words and congrats on ripping off the band-aid.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2019, 08:56:11 AM »
Loving the new title!

Well done to your son PJ, maybe he can encourage your W to join him in the real world alcohol free. Takes a lot of strength though so must be a scary thought for her. Is it wine she drinks? Is she a secret drinker?

I think a lot of how well your children have grown up is because of you. We can all see here how much of a decent person you are so give yourself a pat on the back too!

Emotional starvation is a great description. Hadn’t thought of it like that before.

I agree with KIT your situation is just as difficult as anyone else’s here. Of course some are more and some less complex, some are more and some less devastating depending on circumstances but the core is the same. And it’s a rotten core.

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2019, 11:15:05 AM »
Thanks Rose. W drinks two glasses of wine every day after work. Not secretive. It's not a lot, but it's every day. And she drinks as a stress coping mechanism. That's what my S wants to avoid as he starts a stressful, emotional job. (He's using W as an example of what NOT to do). S had been more of a college social drinker, but now he's out of college and adulting. I myself have one beer maybe every couple of weeks. D21 is about the same.   

W also goes out drinking maybe once a week with her single female co-workers. That's tapered down since the early days of her crisis. One week early on she went out four times. And she sometimes drove home when in no condition to drive. That was scary and a big problem for me. One of her single female co-workers got a DWI, which put a bit of a damper on the party lifestyle. W is more of a wallower than anything now. (The bachelorette party is over - it's a pity party now!).

I found the term "Emotional Starvation" in BBHelp's lessons learned thread. It really resonated with me. W is at home and we still have physical intimacy, but she is not a person I can lean on emotionally. She's definitely not interested in my hopes and dreams! Her bucket is empty from trying to deal with her self. So I don't get much sympathy, kindness or support. You know, those simple things that make your day bearable. So, I've had to learn to get my emotional nourishment elsewhere - through closer relationships with friends and family (and here). It's not the same, but it's the best I can do.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #117 on: February 11, 2019, 09:13:39 AM »
So, W and I have our first meeting with an MC next week. W has been seeing an IC weekly for about three months. She says she’s learned a lot, but hasn’t shared anything with me. I haven’t pried. 

I’m a little nervous about MC. It was my suggestion back in November after BD2 when I thought I might have been approaching last straw territory. But once things settled down I backed off from it. But now W is pushing for it and I’m afraid it’s too soon. I don’t think she can handle facing the reality of the damage just yet.

I’m not sure how to prepare for MC. Any advice from the vets?
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2019, 09:58:41 AM »
Hi PJ, we have no experience in MC but lots of IC.

I’m guessing (with ignorance and all!) that it might be better for you to devote your attention to listening, rather than talking, in MC.  I’m looking at your dates and I think it’s way too early for MC.  But, she asked and all you can do is to acquiesce and see what her thinking process is like.  Maybe this is the way your W will find out that she needs a lot of individual work before attempting to address relationship issues.  MLC was never about M and she needs to learn that for herself...
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2019, 04:47:47 PM »
Thanks Acorn - you are wise!

Yes, listening sounds like a good plan. Probably best just to be supportive, nod agreeably when I can, and hold my fire. If C is any good, she'll figure out the important things early on.  W wants C to help facilitate a discussion about W's EAs. When we've tried to talk about this in the past, she got very hurt and would end the discussion by crying. Meanwhile, I wound up getting angry and frustrated from holding back and trying to be so gentle. I think the problem with talking about these things is that W lives in La-La Land and I don't speak La-La.

So, I agree that it's probably too early (although it has been almost three years since she started acting strange). Maybe this can be something that we space out over long gaps of time? One day at a time I guess - each day has enough trouble of its own!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online RedStar

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #120 on: February 12, 2019, 05:22:17 PM »
I don't speak La-La.

Ha ha ha, love this! ;D We are learning to understand it, yes, but not speak it. LOL.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #121 on: February 13, 2019, 12:27:07 AM »
I don't speak La-La.

Ha ha ha, love this! ;D We are learning to understand it, yes, but not speak it. LOL.

<snort>  Trying to understand La La is like trying to taste green with your elbow.....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #122 on: February 13, 2019, 05:29:28 AM »
I will be following along your MC journey closely PJ.  For about 6 weeks my H was really pushing it too. Every time we would talk I he ended up projecting many things that belonged to him on me.  He would often tell me that I made him feel bad when we talked about the past.  I came to realize that he thought by doing marriage counseling that he maybe could avoid working on his own issues and blame our marriage instead.  It has been interesting lately, his IC recommended a book we each read separately and then discuss.  I agreed and read it. The basic premise of the book was good relationships are built on the foundation of safety.  You need to be able to feel safe in order to trust. I told him this is what I came away from the book with.    I told him anytime he wants to discuss to let me know.  He hasn’t read it yet, and he has stopped all talk about MC.  He still needs to face himself first.  He’s continuing IC which is good.  We are in a calm cycle. 
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #123 on: February 13, 2019, 09:41:53 AM »
Not sure when your MC is scheduled, PJ.
If it’s still to come, then the following article might have something that might be useful to you.  It is useful in everyday living with MLCer as well.  It is not specific to MLC but very much pertinent to us LBSs, nevertheless.  I use this when dealing with difficult and not-so difficult people

https://www.emotionalaffair.org/the-most-powerful-technique-to-save-your-marriage/
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:46:14 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #124 on: February 13, 2019, 09:57:16 AM »
Thanks RedStar, UM, and Roo. Yeah, how can I explain what green tastes like to my elbow? Wish me luck! :o,

Roo - First of all, I'm glad you're in a calm cycle! And I think my W may be thinking along the same lines as your husband. That the problem is the marriage and that we need to share the blame and the work. I know our marriage wasn't perfect before OM1, but it truly was good. I'm also afraid she wants to talk about the dustbunnies in the corner of our marriage closet and ignore the big steaming pile of poop in the middle of the living room she left there by cheating and lying.

My W also plays that "why are you making me feel bad," game. It's like "I know I broke your leg, but I said I'm sorry once. Why are you making me feel bad by walking around in a cast? Can't you just get over it?"

I tried to delay counseling and may try to space out sessions while we work on ourselves. But her IC thinks she is ready for MC and I want to be supportive. She's actually starting to show some signs of remorse and wanting to fix things. So I think I should at least listen.

I know the MC can't fix my W and I've given up on expectations for anything to change soon, but I may learn a little about what W is thinking. I'll let you know how it goes. Onward!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:00:32 AM by PJ Ames »
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2019, 09:59:36 AM »
Thanks for the article Acorn! I'll read it before MC for sure. Our first appt. is next Monday the 18th.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #126 on: February 13, 2019, 10:06:12 AM »
As others say, PJ, maybe see it as an opportunity to listen to your w explain what green tastes like...

Listen by all means, seems fair unless it turns into a PJ bashing game and then you can say no thank you. Hopefully your MC will keep the line clean too.

MC can be tricky from what others have shared, so obviously best to keep your expectations at zero and your boundaries nice and clear as it sounds you are. Fwiw, my take with my then h - in his aborted MC flurry which fortunately didn't happen - was that we were 50% responsible for our marriage until he withdrew from it and started talking to other people instead of me...after that, nope, that belonged to him from then on 100% bc I got no voice in that so wouldn't be responsible for it.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2019, 03:58:20 PM »
Quote
I'm also afraid she wants to talk about the dustbunnies in the corner of our marriage closet and ignore the big steaming pile of poop in the middle of the living room she left there by cheating and lying.

I know exactly what you mean by this! I asked my H a little while ago: Why on earth would you want to go to marriage counseling when you know for a fact that we will have to deal with the big old elephant in the room head on?  He had no answer, just a blank look.  A few days after that I got a random text from him that said "Just want you to know I hate elephants"  Very odd, but he was processing what I said at least!  After this he hasn't asked me to go to marriage counseling.  I'm enjoying to calm, who knows how long it will last. 
 
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2019, 04:57:25 PM »
Enjoy the calm seas Roo. Hope you're able to do some resting and healing.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re:Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2019, 05:07:17 PM »
Thanks Treasur. I agree with your take on the marriage responsibility. I'm not taking responsibility for what I've had no control over.

I'm not worried about this turning into a bash PJ deal. Early on, during her bachelorette party phase, she complained about me being critical and controlling. Now, during her pity party wallowing phase, she likes to tell me that I'm a better person than she is, etc... What she wants me to do is to be the strong partner and fix the marriage. But of course I can't fix the marriage because I can't fix her.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #130 on: February 14, 2019, 03:28:16 AM »
Catching up PJ.  I hope MC goes ok my friend.
Hey, you never know. I think your where you can handle if MC is a busy. You will see it coming. But I agree. Go listen my friend. Just be the calm , cool, collected guy and listen.
Hang in there PJ

Offline Whyus

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #131 on: February 14, 2019, 03:43:51 AM »
Yes, you can go and listen, it may be very eyeopening for you. it could also be a disaster, 50/50 Chance really.
That she expects you to be the strong partner and fix the marriage is total BS imho. That is too great a load for you to take on by yourself, either she is all in or she isnt. Its not for you to fix mate, if it were that easy we would all be with our Aliens again.

All the best and good luck.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #132 on: February 14, 2019, 03:59:24 AM »
I am with WhyUs but in a different way....

She wants you to be "the strong one and fix the marriage?"

That is so, when it doesn't work (and if SHE is not willing and ready to do HER work and get HER ducks in a row, I am sorry to say it is NOT an "if" but a "when") she can walk out saying "Well, I tried but HE wasn't strong enough. It was HIS fault...."

Same sort of nonsense my STBXW pulled on me...

STBX: "We should go to MC."
Me: "OK... But what has changed? You weren't interested before"
STBX: "You are right. Nothing has changed."
Me: <WTF?>

Later
STBX: "You said there was no point in MC because nothing had changed."
Me:  <WTF?> "Uh, no, That is NOT what I said. I asked you what had changed that you changed your mind."
STBX: <crickets>
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Hunkered down for the long haul
« Reply #133 on: February 17, 2019, 08:23:04 PM »
W and I start MC tomorrow and we had a weird conversation tonight. I took her out for coffee. We talked about non-relationship things for a long time. It was fun. Then I asked her if she was sure she wanted to go to MC. I told her I didn't want her to go just to make me happy and that I only wanted to go if we were both committed to working our marriage. She said she wanted to work on our marriage and that we should have started MC years ago after I suggested it after OM1. OK. So far, so good.

Then...
Me: I'm glad your IC seems to be going well. You seem happier.
W: Yes, I'm learning a lot.
Me: That's great. Can you tell me what you've been learning?
W: It's hard to put into words. I haven't told you much.
Me: Actually, you haven't told me anything.
W (bursts into tears): This is why I don't tell you anything.

I know, I know. I messed up by asking about her IC. Still, her logic is hard to follow.

In other news, I'm working on this method of "charging neutral" that Acorn told me about. Basically, I'm working on being calm and non-reactive. I have no buttons to push. I'm not apologizing unless I did something wrong and I'm not allowing myself to be a victim or a doormat. If she gets upset, I tell her I'm sorry she feels that way. But I'm not backing down and I'm not accepting her BS. For example, when she said OM2 was a "Pen Pal" I said "no, I don't agree with that." So far W doesn't like it!

So, MC could be interesting tomorrow. I don't think she's ready, but she wants to go so I'm going to honor her effort. I'm going to try to use lots of "we" language, listen, be supportive, and ask any questions the counselor asks me calmly and honestly. But I'm not accepting any more lies. So things may get worse before they get better!

Anyone have any MC survival tips?
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Music45

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #134 on: February 18, 2019, 12:00:15 AM »
Hello PJ,
I've just read back through your posts and am attaching along. I have no experience of MC to share, sorry. I just know that there was a time, earlier in MLC land when I'd have welcomed MC thinking it was the beginning of the end. We did go once, at H's instigation to see his IC [this was in the early days during one of his false returns]. Not sure what this was about [and it didn't achieve anything]. He subsequently gave up his IC later anyway - even after they'd worked on some pretty tough stuff together, like identifying how he connected with old school friend OW because he associated her house and her parents, as "accepting" when he didn't feel accepted at home and was looking for that feeling of contentment again now, as an adult. He learnt all that and still pushed away from me. Again. I guess he just wasn't ready to hear it.

Not sure what I'm trying to say here other than I know from experience that my H clearly has at times seen through the fog enough to realise something is wrong and he needs to do something [and maybe in the long run it will count towards his eventual waking up from MLC, who knows] but that there needs to be a significant change in order for it to mean anything.

I really hope that your W is on the right path, I'm just saying take care as, as I know, there's a lot of fools gold in that MLC river. Keep panning for the real thing.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 12:47:59 AM by Music45 »
Me: 50
H: 51
S:26 D:19 [They're his kids. I'm Step Mum. They both live with us - though D at Uni]
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [works away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away. No idea of current status of this relationship.

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #135 on: February 18, 2019, 05:26:50 AM »
Oh man PJ, your talk with your W sounds just like the many I have had with my H over the past year.  He would start to sound normal and rational and then bam....I would say something wrong and it brought back the insanity.  I have been pushing away marriage counseling for awhile now.  I will fill you in on my thread today my conversations I had with my H for the last 2 days.  I THINK some of what I calmly brought up may have stuck.  He brought up marriage counseling again and I told him I wasn’t going until he read the book his counselor gave him. He started yesterday.

I think you may have a lot to tounge biting and lip zipping ahead of you today. I don’t think your W is anywhere near ready to listen to you.  Sending you good energy to be able to get through this. 

Roo
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #136 on: February 18, 2019, 06:40:03 AM »
I wish you calmness today at MC.  My comment might be way too late but here it is anyhow.

It’s hard to stay calm when talking about emotional stuff.  Control what you can.  Hand gestures, breathing and your posture can be controlled and they, in turn, can reign in your reactive responses. (Tongue is another matter...)  Sit back, relax your back and neck, keep your hands open on your knees, make sure they stay there.  Breathe deeply and slowly for a few seconds before you reply, if you absolutely have to reply.  It brought my anxiety down and got me out of ‘fight or flight’ reactions to H’s words during our convos.  It worked for me. 

Not sure about ‘we’ statement.  You can’t speak for your W and vice versa.  ‘I’ statements are preferred, I think. 

The fact that she burst into tears at your statement of the undeniable fact tells me that she sees blame and accusation in smallest things.  MY H was the same.  Saying anything to him that appeared to be correcting him about simplest fact was taken as a huge offence.  YOU CANNOT DEBATE WITH MLCER.  Full stop.  They don’t think.  They ‘emotion’. 

They lie.  You know it, I know it.  If it is inconsequential, I would let it go.  If you have concrete evidence to her lies that matters life and death to you, you can say your bit in a most diplomatic way possible.

Just my 2 cents’
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #137 on: February 18, 2019, 09:06:29 AM »
Thanks Music, Roo and Acorn. We're going to MC later this afternoon. I went to bed early last night, got in a good workout this morning, and am taking deep breaths through the day. Trying to be a zen master, lol.

Yes, I'll be biting my tongue and zipping my lip as much as I can. I will exercise my Miranda rights. I'll keep my expectations to a minimum and just hope that it's a positive experience for W and that it will maybe lay some groundwork for being able to talk about things when she's ready.

Thanks for following along Music! You're right about the Fool's gold. I've bought it before.

Roo - I'll go check out your update next! Your husband and my W do seem to be on a similar trajectory.

Acorn - thanks for the practical advice. Breathing, posture, hands on knees. And yes, W is wracked with guilt and gets offended by the smallest thing. It's like she's trying to even the score by making my inelegant statement of fact equal to what she did. ("I know I sent topless photos of myself to another man, but you told me I never tell you anything. How could you be so cruel?" <weeping noises>)

If I live to tell the tale, I'll post an update tomorrow!


"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online Treasur

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #138 on: February 18, 2019, 09:58:27 AM »
I suppose the less you say, the less ammunition there is.
Hope it proves fruitful, PJ, and the HS army is there in spirit reminding you to follow Acorn's very good tips  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #139 on: February 19, 2019, 07:56:53 AM »
So, W and I went to our first MC yesterday and I have it to say it went… pretty good. There were no breakthroughs, epiphanies, Hallmark moments or come to Jesus events, but it was the best and longest we’ve been able to talk about our relationship in years. Afterwards, W was OK (no tears) and was pleasant and “normal.” I suggested no relationship talks until next MC session and she agreed and seemed relieved. She likes our MC and wants to go back so we will. MC is sympathetic but insightful. She is married with two sons. W wanted a female counselor (no problem for me), so I got to pick which one and went with one who mentioned on her website that she believed in marriage (some MCs seem pretty loopy).

I stuck to my strategy of only speaking when spoken to and remaining as neutral as possible. Focusing on controlling my breathing and posture helped (thanks again Acorn!). W spoke about twice as much as me and I didn’t interrupt or correct my W when she said something ridiculous, which she did many times. Judging by the MC’s questions, it’s pretty clear she has a good grasp of what’s going on.

It turns out that the best way to demonstrate that W is in La-La Land is to let her talk.

MC gave us some homework on defining boundaries for opposite-sex relationships. W is still minimizing her EAs and playing the victim. I understand that the EAs are a symptom of her depression, but W isn’t ready to accept that yet. So until she comes to terms with what she’s done and faces the hollowness inside her that she’s trying to fill with OM, alcohol, spending, etc… , I think it’s too soon repair the damage. But, preventing more damage until she comes out of her fog seems like an OK strategy.

So, all in all, it went pretty OK for our first session. I’m feeling good. Another hurdle cleared and disaster averted. There's no way I could have been this neutral, detached and non-defensive even a couple of months ago, so I feel like I'm making progress at least. Onward!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #140 on: February 19, 2019, 08:05:34 AM »
It's a little bitty baby step in the marathon of MLC. I really hope that she sticks with it because it could be the thing that saves your marriage....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline 9393roo

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #141 on: February 19, 2019, 08:36:52 AM »
Sounds encouraging PJ!!  Baby steps is right.  It’s funny my H and I made the same agreement not to talk about our relationship without setting a time aside for it.  I think that it is essential in trying to rebuilding without constantly dealing with it.  I think you and I may be near the same spot.  I HOPE that the majority of the damage has been done.  Things seem to be settling down.  As you said, none of this could have taken place 2 months ago.  Baby steps is all we can hope for right now. 

On my end,my H started to read the book that his therapist recommended.  The first chapter deals with the essential base for being in a relationship is to provide safety.  My H got into bed last night and said I really want to make you feel safe!  Hmmmm.  I said that sounds nice. Right now to me saying and doing have to make a connection.  I think he may be in the right path?  Time will tell. 

Onward we go!
Husband 53
Me 53
Kids 3 sons 27,25.22 1 daughter 18
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 30 years.  Together 32
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.
He is working on things and far from being cooked.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #142 on: February 19, 2019, 09:27:54 AM »
MC went well because you kept neutral, I think.  Well done, you!  I’m happy for you, PJ.  :)

You are too right when you said that it’s too soon to repair the damage.  It’s a case of MLCer swimming for her dear life after her boat broke apart in a storm.  It would be unreasonable to even think about the possibility of repairing the boat.  She needs to get to the shore first.  And that will take time.  A long time.

There's no way I could have been this neutral, detached and non-defensive even a couple of months ago, so I feel like I'm making progress at least.

Spot on!
I think this is the best way to deal with MLCer or difficult people in general.  It diffuses tricky situations where nothing is to be gained by engaging. 

Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #143 on: February 19, 2019, 01:28:13 PM »
Glad it all went ok PJ. 
I like the don't speak unless spoken too.
That's only way to handle it atm. Just see how sincere she is.
You will know.
I've never been to IC or MC. 
W went to IC.  I did same, ask was it helping???
I got same reply as you. We learn as we go PJ. 
Hang in there my friend.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #144 on: February 19, 2019, 03:24:20 PM »
PJ

Hurdle cleared and disaster averted. I love that. It’s how everything feels isn’t it. The big build up then somehow you survive another day!

Good for you, you sound great. You sound clear in your thinking, not panicky, not unreasonable.

So glad it went ok. Phew!
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Sept 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #145 on: February 19, 2019, 04:04:59 PM »
Thanks Rose, Helping, Acorn, Roo and UM. Baby steps for sure.

W has a long way to go, but I do think she's sincere about wanting to stay married. But man, she is so fragile and shaky. I think the realization of what she has done may be starting to dawn on her. She sent me a very sheepish text and email today about a non-related subject. I'm going to really have to work on staying light and polite. It's going to be hard for me when I see her floundering and suffering to give her space and not to turn back into Mr. Fixit. To be a lighthouse and not a rescue party.

I've volunteered for a couple of work functions two nights this week which will keep me out of her way and work on my own life.

It's good to live to see another day!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Music45

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #146 on: February 19, 2019, 10:38:17 PM »
What do they say? "If you're going through hell, keep going"?
Glad it went well PJ.
Me: 50
H: 51
S:26 D:19 [They're his kids. I'm Step Mum. They both live with us - though D at Uni]
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [works away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away. No idea of current status of this relationship.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #147 on: February 20, 2019, 01:04:40 AM »
What do they say? "If you're going through hell, keep going"?
Glad it went well PJ.

That and "You don't make the trip to hell and back without acquiring transferable skills...."
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline PJ AmesTopic starter

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #148 on: February 20, 2019, 07:25:49 AM »
Thanks Music. Yep, I might get out before the devil even knows I'm there.  :)

You're right about the transferable skills UM. I think my newly-improved skills at being neutral and non-defensive are already paying off. I had my annual employee evaluation yesterday, and compared to Monday's MC session it was a stroll in the park. A few years ago I would have been a little nervous about it, but now it's no big deal. Box breathing beforehand, controlling my posture and breathing during the eval and I looked and felt completely comfortable and in control. To be honest, my job performance has probably suffered these past few years (I'm writing this at work now ;)), but my boss thinks I'm doing great. Confidence!

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Seems kind of mild in comparison, but it still hurts
« Reply #149 on: February 20, 2019, 09:24:07 AM »
Isn't perspective a funny thing? Things that used to seem completely overwhelming are now a walk in the park. Amazing. I think that shows true growth PJ. As does your usage of those incredibly important new skills--staying neutral an un-defensive. I am happy the MC went well. And I attribute that to you. You are truly seeing the bigger picture. I made the mistake of going with H a few months after BD. I felt completely attacked and took everything personal.

You are doing great by appreciating the positives. Baby steps PJ. You got this!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

 

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