Author Topic: My Story Between the earth and the sky...  (Read 3473 times)

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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My Story Between the earth and the sky...
« on: April 04, 2017, 02:58:32 PM »
Time for a new thread

The title of this one refers to that space between what is known, and what is unknown.

I'm kind of anticipating this is going to be a slow thread, and may well be my last. There really isn't a lot to say when one isn't inclined to journal very much about life outside of MLC, is heading into the fourth year of living in limbo, with an "off and on-er", and without kids. 

But, for those who are new, or who are following along and don't quite remember, I offer a recap of my story, noting changes from 6 months ago.

After 16 years of what I thought was a solid, happy, supportive marriage, H announced he didn't think he loved me anymore. He later revised that to LYBNILWU. Regardless, there's been zero expression of love -- or zero expression of any care or concern -- since BD.

BD was early spring of 2014.
I did lots 'wrong' - and some things I did 'right'.
Not sure either made any difference.
Only time will tell.

Some half-hearted, doomed and destructive efforts at MC followed BD.
Basically, we were introduced to 2 different MCs before H moved out 2 months after BD.  Saw a 3rd a few months after H's separation. But did no real counselling work, so I think it was all to fill the "See, I tried" box.

He left, and hasn't looked back.
Left me with all the responsibilities of our 4 pets and our house.
No children together; he as an adult S from a previous M.
They are estranged. H blames SS's mother.
SS and I have a hard-to-define relationship.

H left W #1 suddenly and dismissively as well.
W #1 and I have become friendly, so it's been interesting to hear a little bit about the other side of their story.

At BD, H claimed no OW, tho I suspect a number of EAs.
H pushed to shed all responsibilities, including the sale of our house, in mid 2015.
I agreed, but only with a mediated agreement in place.
Started mediation, house sold almost immediately, and mediation was never finalized.
We still have financial and other shared assets sitting in limbo.

At time of house sale, he claimed he would file for D
Since then.....
Nothing.
Limbo.

Rumour has it he is on dating websites.
Confirmation has it he has introduced an OW he met online to some family.
Introduced OW2, apparently a more serious prospect also met online, to family over Christmas.
Apparently our history has been rewritten to be 16 years of "misery" which OW thinks poor H was lucky to escape.

I have not seen him in six 2 months.
Communication is rare, and always polite.
I generally respond to what he initiates.
I will initiate administrative communication, which isn't often necessary.

Social media is .....interesting.
Still "friends",
Still have shared "friends" on FB, but in RL all connections have ceased with our shared friends, other than his family.
I still have good relationships with his family, too.

And that is 30 36 months and counting in a nutshell....

Previous threads:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8302.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8095.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7934.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7717.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6468.0
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 03:18:21 PM »
As my last thread closed, I had just shared the loss of my dog - the last of three who have passed since H left. It has been difficult to lose each of them.

This one, the 'baby', was the only appointment that H did not attend. I was OK with that. He has been gone and out of her life - and mine - for a long time, and it was emotional enough.

I did let him know via text what was happening, to give him a chance to attend if he chose to. It was very last minute.  And he responded quickly to let me know that he couldn't come and why, and that he was very sorry. Which I appreciated.

It was the message now, a week later, following up and wondering if she had rallied, that caught me by surprise.  :o

I let him know that all was very peaceful. And....no further response from him.

I'm glad that he reached out, even if it did leave me scratching me head.

As I've said more often than I care to recall, you can't make sense out of nonsense.

Thank you my friends for your condolences. They mean a lot.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 03:19:45 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Thunder

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 03:42:03 PM »
Onward,

I'm so glad you started a new thread.  I wanted so badly to tell you how very sorry I am about losing your dog.

While my H was in his crisis I lost both my Great Danes who were like our kids.  It was doubly painful because even though H was there, he wasn't there.   :-\
I had their tags put on a chain and still wear them when I go walking in the woods.

Anyway, I'm very sorry.   Keep those wonderful memories.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline No expectations

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 06:11:37 PM »
Attaching, Onward. 
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 06:15:25 PM »
Holding space for you, Onward, always. <3
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 06:24:23 PM »
Doing the limbo dance with you......
Attaching
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Never say never

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
Onward, you are an idol to me.  When you posted on my thread, I felt very special, I really did.  I can't imagine what you have gone through, the pain, the tears, the growth; yet, we all make it through ... somehow.

I am so sorry for the loss of your dog.  That just makes it extra difficult.  We have a golden who is ten years old.  My husband trained that dog in the beginning and she was man's best friend.  When my husband walks through the door now, our golden puts her head down and scampers away to our daughter's bedroom.  How sad is that?

All I can say is, wow, you are an incredibly strong woman.  I know, that must get old sometimes to hear.  Sometimes, you don't want to be the "strong" woman.  You want to be "the woman" who just is nurtured and taken care of like a marriage is meant to be.  I get it.  We all do.

There is something out there for us, though, that is greater than we can imagine at this moment.  There is a blueprint, a plan, and we just have to be patient and not question anything and wait for the plan to be executed. 

Some day, we will look back and see how the plan was set in motion, how it was meant to be played out.  We are just too anxious to know answers right now that cannot and will not be answered on our time line.

Onward, I thank you for all of the support you have offered me.  I support you the same. 

Online stillbaffled

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 07:57:52 PM »

I'm kind of anticipating this is going to be a slow thread, and may well be my last. There really isn't a lot to say when one isn't inclined to journal very much about life outside of MLC, is heading into the fourth year of living in limbo, with an "off and on-er", and without kids. 


Au contraire mon ami! 

You have much to offer and you might be surprised to realize that many of us enjoy hearing about life outside of MLC.   I think you'll find that when you post and share whatever is going on in your life you'll find that your cyber friends here follow along and respond. 

My condolences on the loss of your furbaby.  Do you think that at some point in the future you will choose to have another one? 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 07:50:00 AM »
Just attaching to your new thread and deeply hoping it is not your last!  You have such a wonderful way of expressing yourself and your life, I hope you continue to share!

I understand how sad losing your fur baby is, it is a heartbreaking event for sure.
I do not want to take away from your grieving time, but I'd like to share something.  During my H's crisis I too had to put my sweet fur baby to rest, toughest thing I ever had to do and I too did it alone, no H at my side(even though he remained in the home). 
A day after, H's OW2 (remember she was OUR friend)  tried to speak about it with me and maybe console me??  Not sure??  Simply put, I was quite upset!   I decided I would not bite my lip and remain silent about this and said to H "you told XXXX about this?   he answered with " of course I did,  why wouldn't I? "   I understood right then and there what was happening and just how close the "friendship" was and just how much they were talking and seeing each other without me around!
As hard as it was it confirmed my suspicions and I never once doubted their EA again!!     Losing someone that close is hard and someone in crisis can't or won't do the hard stuff, they run!

Here's to a stronger Onward!
(hugs) 
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Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 08:10:20 AM »
Welcome to your new thread, Onward.

I'm sorry abouyt your "baby" dog.

Agree with the others, you have a lot to offer.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Shocked

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 10:17:58 AM »
Hi Onward! I am so sorry about you losing your pet. Love is so precious right now, it's devastating to lose any morsel!!! Sending you a hug!🤗
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline Strongcurrent

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 05:07:09 AM »
Hi onward
Happy to follow you on your new thread - you always have plenty to offer.

SC x

Offline UKStander

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 05:26:58 AM »
Hi Onward

Stick around, please. You've always had good words of wisdom to offer me. 

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog.   :(   And your H...

Hugs and luck to you.
BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 2012, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. He moved in with OW in 10/14 and I heard little more. I instigated D in 2016.  He's still living in rental with OW and her D but the cracks are starting to appear.

Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2017, 06:45:34 AM »
Onward,
I really hope you continue to post here.

I know your wisdom has helped me tremendously and I see it has really helped others.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2017, 06:56:12 AM »
Quote
I'm kind of anticipating this is going to be a slow thread, and may well be my last. There really isn't a lot to say when one isn't inclined to journal very much about life outside of MLC, is heading into the fourth year of living in limbo, with an "off and on-er", and without kids. 

This is really a pretty positive thing, because after a while...they do not consume our lives and are not a part of our every waking moment.

I had thought my husband would have been done years ago with contacting me and as you know, he has not. So you never know really, what lies ahead between the two of you.

At this point in time, I am more concerned about his behavior towards our daughter and the pain it causes her. But that too helps me to understand that he is not in his right mind.

The house is so empty without our fur babies....their unconditional love for us is very healing. My dad used to say that he didn't want a dog because their lives were short and he didn't want the pain of losing an animal...but I always thought...well, but what about the many many years of joy they bring to our lives. To me that is worth it.

Kind of like MLC.....we don't regret loving our spouses and the many good years together. Those memories should remain as precious ones in our life story, as hard as that may be.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

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Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 11:20:58 PM »
Thank you all for you condolences regarding my recently departed pup. I miss her tremendously. This particular round of grief is going to take a while to get over.

Despite my earlier pronouncement about not having a lot to say, I’ve provoked myself into muse mode.

Provoked by what?

Grammar.
Or, more accurately, sentence diagrams. An obscure tool nobody’s bothered to teach for about 30 years.
When the notion of structure and rules supported clarity of communication.
And clarity of communication was fundamental to the concept of communication ethics.
And communication ethics were considered crucial to the development of communities...and relationships.

You know, back in the days before spellcheck, grammar check, google everything, crude acronyms, rudeness as entertainment and grade inflation.  Back when an argument was an invitation to explore ideas rather than to exchange insults, and valid evidence carried more credibility than vocal opinion.

But what’s vexing me isn’t about stupid sentence diagrams. I’m irritated at myself for even bringing it up, because what does it even matter?

And then I’m irritated at myself on another front, because it’s easy to let go of things that “don’t matter.”

So what does matter?

Conformity?
Diversity?
Ease?
Challenge?

Freedom of expression?
Tolerance of dissent?

Striving to understand others before judging what they’ve said?
Imposing a rationale on others that they have not said?

Does “going along to get along” matter?
Or a willingness to defend against communication that degrades others through distortion or intimidation?

Seeing what one wants to see?
Being open to see through the lens of another?

Accepting the expression of the personal convictions?
Or judging the validity of another’s convictions through one’s own lens?

Accepting responsibility for the consequences of our own communication and expecting the same of others?

I have a pretty good sense of my own values around these questions. But I’ll have  to come back to it later because mostly I just needed to get this out of my system and I have way too many papers to mark to explore this topic further tonight.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 12:01:55 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2017, 06:51:31 AM »
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
(hugs)
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Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 04:31:49 PM »
Please don't take offense, but grammar is low on my list of things that truly matter. And I work with writing and translation. But on the grand scheme of things, it is low.

Things that really matter to me: love, kindness, peace, beauty, diversity, ease, warmness, joy.

After this MLC thing, looking after grandmother until she died (and her last horrible three months), I realise most things really aren't that important.

This, from someone who used to be a grammar police with Mr. J, because he always wrote the Portuguese "À" as "Á".  ::) Interestingly, his MLC self writes the correct "À".
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2017, 05:56:18 PM »
Anjae, absolutely no offence taken. Grammar doesn't matter that much to me

What does matter to me -- *a lot* -- is how people treat each other.

In fact, some time ago, while I was troubled about something going on between folks at work, H posted to his FB account "Onward really cares how people treat each other. It's one of the reasons why I love her."  He got lots of likes for that.

Ironically enough, he BDd me and left about 6 months later.  :o

What hasn't changed is how much I still care about how people treat each other.  :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:01:11 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 08:56:19 AM »
No grammar doesn't matter.  Communication matters and grammar is one of the ways we make communication clear.  You said all that and for someone who is busy marking you have put a lot of thought and time...

Anyway I was just explaining to someone ;) why we do those flow charts and diagrams etc for each story--we take it apart to see how it's built so we can build our own.  Deconstruct, construct...  No-one ever explained to me as a child, why we did grammar [or plot lines or story boards].  Come to think of it, I didn't understand well enough to explain to another until recently--okay you have me so conscious of my grammar that I'm stuck. 
I'll go work in my garden.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2017, 04:36:10 PM »
What does matter to me -- *a lot* -- is how people treat each other.

 :)

Oh, the crazy things MLCers do. Phew. They really need to be out of their heads.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2017, 08:33:19 PM »
Well, turned another year over on the BD chronometer.

I remember when one year seemed impossible.
Hah!

Now? Well, life is good.
I am thankful for good friends.
Good health.
Money in the bank if not always in my pocket.
Interesting work.
A peaceful home.
People who love me.

I'm thankful for learning what it means to accept, even if it was the hard way.
For learning the difference between faith and denial, even if it was the slow way..

And there's still a lot to keep learning...

(edited to make it clearer that there's still a lot more lessons that I think I will value as as these..)

Like living in the now,
And laughing again,
And seeing joy in simple things,
And the healing value of a good cry.

And truly knowing, deep down, that everything really is going to be all right.

Hello, year four......
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 09:36:02 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 08:51:07 PM »
I am always so grateful when those days are over and behind me.....

Wishing you a continual healing path and that you will find peace and contentment as you continue to accept...there is absolutely nothing we could do or can do to change this.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 09:39:53 PM »
Came across this today, and even though it is written from the perspective of a widow, I think the grief process and attitudes toward grief apply whether one has experienced the death of a spouse, or the death of a marriage through the unilateral choices of a spouse. Or the death of a relationship, period. Thought it might resonate with others, too.

Stifled Grief: How the West Has It Wrong

After nearly seven years of personal experience surrounding loss, I can tell who is going to read, share and comment on this article and it’s not necessarily the audience I’ve intended. Those who have walked the horrific road of loss will shake their collective heads “Yes” at many of my points below and share with pleads for the rest of the Western World to read, learn, evolve and embrace these concepts. Unfortunately, my words will fall short for my intended audience because the premise does not yet apply to their lives...yet. In time, my words will resonate with every human on the face of this earth, but until a personal journey with loss takes place, my words will be passed over in exchange for articles about gorillas and fights over public bathroom usage.

There is nothing sexy or exciting about grief.

There is nothing that grabs a reader with no personal interest to open my words and take heed to my writing.

I’m here to say that the West has the concept of grieving all wrong.

I’d like to point out that we are a culture of emotionally stunted individuals who are scared of our mortality and have mastered the concept of stuffing our pain. Western society has created a neat little “grief box” where we place the grieving and wait for them to emerge fixed and whole again. The grief box is small and compact, and it comes full of expectations like that range from time frames to physical appearance. Everyone who has been pushed into the grief box understands it’s confining limitations, but all of our collective voices together can’t seem to change the intense indignation of a society too emotionally stifled to speak the truth. It’s become easier to hide our emotional depth than to reveal our vulnerability and risk harsh judgment. When asked if we are alright, it’s simpler to say yes and fake a smile then, to be honest, and show genuine human emotion.

Let me share below a few of the expectations and realities that surround grief for those who are open to listening. None of my concepts fit into societies grief box and despite the resounding amount of mutual support by the grieving for what I write below, many will discount my words and label us as “stuck” or “in need of good therapy.” I’m here to say those who are honest with the emotions that surround loss are the ones who are the least “stuck” and have received the best therapy around. You see, getting in touch with our true feelings, embracing the honest emotions of death only serve to expand the heart and allow us to move forward in a genuine and honest way. Death happens to us all so let’s turn the corner and embrace the truth behind life after loss.

Expectation: Grief looks a certain way in the early days. Tears, intense sadness, and hopelessness.

Reality: Grief looks different for every single person. Some people cry intensely, and some don’t cry at all. Some people break down, and others stand firm. There is no way to label what raw grief looks like as we all handle our loss in different ways due to different circumstances and various life backgrounds that shape who we are.

Expectation: The grieving need about a year to heal.

Reality: Sometimes grief does not even get started till after the first year. I’ve heard countless grieving people say year two is harder than year one. There is the shock, end of life arrangements and other business matters that often consume the first year and the grieving do not have the time actually to sit back and take the time to grieve. The reality is there is no acceptable time frame associated with grief.

Expectation: The grieving will need you most the first few weeks.

Reality: The grieving are flooded with offers of help the first few weeks. In many cases, helping the grieving six months or a year down the line can be far more helpful because everyone has returned to their lives and the grief stricken are left to figure it out alone.

Expectation: The grieving should bury the dead forever. After a year, it is uncomfortable for the grieving to speak of their lost loved one. If they continue to talk about them, they are stuck in their grief and need to “move on.”

Reality: The grieving should speak of the dead forever if that’s what they wish to do. When someone dies, that does not erase the memories you made, the love you shared and their place in your heart. It is not only okay to speak of the dead after they are gone, but it’s also a healthy and peaceful way to move forward.

Expectation: For the widowed - If you remarry you shouldn’t speak of your lost loved one otherwise you take away from your new spouse.

Reality: You never stop loving what came before, and that does not in any way lessen the love you have for what comes after. When you lose a friend - you don’t stop having friends, and you love them all uniquely. If you lose a child and have another, the next child does not replace or diminish the love you had for the first. If you lose a spouse, you are capable of loving what was and loving what is....one does not cancel out or minimize the next. Love expands the heart, and it’s okay to honor the past and embrace the future.

Expectation: Time heals all wounds.

Reality: Time softens the impact of the pain, but you are never completely healed. Rather than setting up false expectations of healing let’s talk about realistic expectations of growth and forward movement. Grief changes who you are at the deepest levels and while you may not forever be in an active mode of grief you will forever be shaped by the loss you have endured.

Expectation: If you reflect on loss beyond a year you are “stuck.”

Reality: Not a day goes by where I am not personally affected by my loss. Seeing my children play sports, looking at my son who is the carbon copy of his Dad or hearing a song on the radio or smell in the air. Loss because part of who you are and even though I don’t choose to dwell on grief it has a way of sneaking in now and again even when I’m most in love with life at the current moment. It’s not because we dwell or focus, and it’s not because we don’t make daily choices to move forward. It’s because we loved and we lost, and it touches us for the remainder of our days in the most profound ways.

Expectation: When you speak of the dead you make the griever sad, so it’s best not to bring them up.

Reality: When we talk about our lost loved one we are often happy and filled with joy. My loss was six and a half years ago and to this day, my late husband is one of my favorite people to talk and hear about. Hearing his name makes me smile and floods my mind with happy memories of a life well lived. It makes the grieving sadder when everyone around them refuses to say their name. Forgetting they existed is cruel and a perfect example of our stifled need to fix the unfixable.

Expectation: If you move forward you never loved them or conversely if you don’t move forward you never loved them.

Reality: The grieving need to do what is right for them, and nobody knows what that is except the person going through it.

Expectation: It’s time to “move on.”

Reality: There is no moving on - there is only moving forward. From the time death touches our lives we move forward, in fact, we are not given a choice but to move forward. However, we never get to a place where the words move on resonate. The words “move on” have a negative connotation to the grieving. They suggest a closure that is nonexistent and a fictitious door we pass through.

Expectation: Grief is a linear process and a series of steps to be taken. Each level is neatly defined and the order predetermined.

Reality: Grief is an ugly mess full of pitfalls, missteps, sinking, and swimming. Like a game of shoots and ladders, you never know when the board might pull you back and send you down the ladder screaming at the top of your lungs. Just when you think you’ve arrived at the finish, you draw a card that sends you back to start and just when it appears you’ve lost the game you jump ahead and come one step closer to the front of the line.

Expectation: The grieving should seek professional forms of counseling exclusively.

Reality: The grieving should seek professional forms of counseling but also the grieving should look strongly towards alternative modes of therapy like fitness, art, music, meditation, journaling and animal therapy. The grieving should take an “active” part in their grief process and understand that coping comes in many different forms for all the different people who walk this earth.

Expectation: The grieving either live in the past or the present. IT is not possible to have a multitude of emotions.

Reality: The grieving live their lives with intense moments of duality. Moments of incredible happiness mixed with feelings of deep sadness. There is a depth of emotion that forever accompany those who have lived with a loss. That duality can cause constant reflection, and a deeper appreciation of all life has to offer.

Expectation: The grieving should be able to handle business as usual within a few weeks.

Reality: The brain of a grieving person can be in a thick fog, especially for those who have experienced extreme shock, for more than a year. Expect forgetfulness, a reduced ability to handle stress and grayness to be commonplace after a loss.

I’ve just scratched the surface above on the many areas where grief is misunderstood in our society.

One hundred percent of the people who walk this earth will deal with death. Each of us will experience the passing of someone close that we love or our personal morality. It is about time we open up the discussion around death, dying and grief and stop the stigma that surrounds our common bond. Judgment, time frames, and neat little grief boxes have no place in the reality that surrounds loss. Western culture asks us to suppress our pain, stuff our emotions and restrain our cries. Social media has given many who grieve the opportunity to open up dialogue, be vulnerable on a large scale level and take the combined heat that comes with that honesty. As a whole, society does not want to hear or accept that grief stays with us in some capacity for the rest of our lives. Just like so many other aspects of our culture, we want to hear there is a quick fix, a cure-all, a pill or a healthy dose of “get over it” to be handed out discreetly and dealt with quietly.

The reality is you will grieve in some capacity for the rest of your life. Once loss touches you-you are forever changed despite what society tells you. Stop looking at the expectations of an emotionally numbed society as your threshold and measuring stick for success. Instead, turn inward and look at the vulnerable reality of a heart that knows the truth about loss. With your firsthand knowledge escape the grief box and run out screaming truth as you go. If we make enough noise maybe someday societies warped expectation will shift to align with reality.


link to original article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelle-e-steinke/stifled-grief-how-the-wes_b_10243026.html
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 09:48:56 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2017, 12:53:08 AM »
Excellent article, Onward -- I agree.

Grief affects us all in different ways; the fact that it affects us for a long time doesn't mean that we are stuck, doing it "wrong", or anything else. 

We don't get over things like this, we learn to live with them. 

Offline No expectations

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2017, 03:42:41 AM »
Onward,

Thank you for sharing this article and it's truths. 

I have a friend that lost a son, 19 years ago.  Every year on the anniversary of his death, she relives that moment.  And every year on his birthday the entire family celebrates his life, by gathering with friends at the waterway he loved and spreading flowers.  He is talked about, remembered, and allowed to live on forever. 

She has taught me so much about strength through grief.  Her grieving will never, ever end, yet she still embraces life and allows her son to be part of their lives.
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline Shocked

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2017, 09:12:55 AM »
That is a great article Onward! Being here on HS allows us a chance to grieve at our timeline. Not the one that is easier for our friends and family that deal with us  their wishes for us to be happy again are nice but it's a painfully slower process than anyone else wants to deal with.
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline Shining Star

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2017, 11:44:30 AM »
I feel a kinship to you.  I know and can feel your story.  I am sorry we are here, and hope for us both, that we continue to heal everyday and that something fabulous is around the corner.
H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17; final divorce 3/14/17.

Offline CallingHeart

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2017, 01:09:04 PM »
Wishing you the best, Onward
I hope year 4 finds you in a place of no longer counting the years as they relate to BD
CallingHeart...
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.

It's no longer all about MLC!  
Pfffffffftttt !

Offline serenity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2017, 01:26:33 PM »
I'm at seven years since BD and I still cry and I still hurt but I don't feel a failure or like I'm standing still.

I loved my H deeply and it's not something that just leaves you. I believe I'll feel this way for the rest of my life.

Everyone deals with this differently and handles it in their own way.

X

Offline nah

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2017, 01:46:35 PM »
Onward,

You're one of the good ones.

Four years for me.  I have just recently come to terms that I will always have love for my husband but I don't want to be married to him.  It's just there, I can't turn it off, I can look at it and then put it away.

So I put it in a box and live my life without him.  I have that capability.

I'm sorry this happened to us but I appreciate that you're still here to help the newbies.

--Nah
H-53
me-51
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2017, 06:22:57 PM »
Onward,

You're one of the good ones.
Definitely!!!  :)

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2017, 10:20:34 PM »
I think I'm much more at peace now that I have [mostly] accepted that loss is part of life. All losses: parents, husbands, pets, even jobs.  Good article.

Of course while reading the excerpt, the bad me is singing, "...but you're still alive" [Alannis Morrisette, You oughta know]. :D

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 11:11:42 PM »
Hello, all. It has been a very long time since I’ve posted to my own thread. And a long time since I’ve read many threads here. It will take me a while to catch up with everyone.

I took a break from HS because I really needed a change in energy. Not so much to GAL, because I already had one, but to escape the tractor beam of MLC. I was afraid I was going to succumb to feelings of frustration, and disillusionment and anger.

I’ve wondered for a while if I have anything to offer the community. H and I are pretty much in the same place we’ve been for a long time. After the shock of BD, his move out 2 months later, and the difficult first year of “firsts”, not a lot has really changed.

Well, other than me. And other than our house has sold, our pets have all died, and most people in our life assume everything is done and dusted.  Except it’s not.
And other than I don't even know who H really is any more, except not the man I thought he was.

By the calendar, it’s been well over 3 years.  But time is a funny thing. It can feel like forever, and just a blink of an eye all in the same moment. 

H hasn’t looked back, but hasn’t initiated legal proceedings either.
He’s pretty invisible since we don’t have children, but he’s not a vanisher, either. If I contact, he will respond. If he contacts, which is rare, I will respond.  We are polite to each other.  He has never asked about me, and although I often wish him well, and reach out on important occasions, I don't ask about him either.

I hear he has an OW.  I have heard opinions about that situation, but I give it no energy. All I know for certain is she hasn’t been told the truth about me or us.  And that she is an affair down. And that is all I need to know.

My HS story for the most part is really, really boring.  I don’t have a reconnection underway, or a reconciliation to get excited about.  And yes, I'm still standing. Though not still.

My life is boring, and good.  It is filled with the simple pleasures of satisfying work, friends and family I love, and hobbies I enjoy. I have occasional moments of sadness, and wistfulness for what was.  It has been a long, hard road to acceptance. To giving up control. 

I am at peace. And maybe in that good, boring, peacefulness there is something useful for newbies, or folks who've been at this awhile.

For all of the countless books I've read, or websites I've surfed, or threads and discussions and debates I've engaged in, and the brief counselling I attended, the only thing I know for sure can be summed up in what's become my favourite mantra: "the the last chapter isn’t written yet".

If I’ve learned anything at all in this unexpected turn in my life, it’s that I don’t have to know the ending to enjoy the book.

So, for what they’re worth, here are some “chapter highlights” from the past few years I’ve found to be true....

It really will get better.  Not right away. But it will. It just takes time.
Time, time, time. Time is a shape-shifter. It is looks like an enemy, and becomes your friend.

“Detach. It’s the single most important thing you can do.” This is in OP’s welcome message to every new member of HS.
And it’s true.
The ability to detach, and your understanding of what it means to ‘detach’ will evolve over time.  But it is, and will continue to be, the single most important thing you can do.
 
There are no gurus. It’s impossible to know what will happen in your relationship and your life. You can do everything ‘wrong’ or everything ‘right’ or everything in between and your spouse may or may not come back and you may or may not decide that is what you want.
There are people on HS who have seen almost every situation and circumstance under the sun.  Their perspective is valuable.
But everyone brings to the table a specific slice of experience, gained through their particular situation, in their particular  culture, informed by their particular values, in their particular time, with their particular spouse.
And no one has “the” answer(s).
No.
One.

The corollary of no gurus is own your own choices.  You did not choose your spouse’s actions.  But you have full choice of how you respond, and what you can do next within your own unique circumstances. Yes, there are patterns, and there are scripts. But only you have your specific set of circumstances. No one else can make a good choice for you.  And no one else lives with the consequences of your choices.

There is a difference between “standing for yourself” and “standing for your marriage”.  One is about the self, the other is beyond the self. You can do one or the other or both.   Neither is easy or the ‘better’ path.

There’s a world of difference between being told what to think, and what to think about.

Grief a process, but it’s a cyclical process, not a linear one.

There are a lot of pathways to healing, and to joy. You are not required to walk with a partner to find them.

Some days the only thing that gets you through is knowing that somewhere, out there, is a friend willing share your pain, to listen and to understand.



« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:21:35 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 05:38:33 AM »
Hi Onward,

It is good to 'see' you again.

I agree - no one has the answer. We do live the consequences of our choices :)



Some days the only thing that gets you through is knowing that somewhere, out there, is a friend willing share your pain, to listen and to understand.



And sometimes, the ONLY place that we find this is here.

I guess I gain more than I offer most days.
M 56
H 56
S 26
S 24
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2017, 06:15:24 AM »
Greetings Onward! So nice to hear your "update".

We used to say MLC was like watching paint dry....incredibly slow.

I agree with all your points...thank you for sharing and I know that others reading this, especially our newer members will appreciate what you have written.

Reading your points made me think about the following scripture passage:

Ecclesiastes, chapter 3
1
* There is an appointed time for everything,
and a time for every affair under the heavens.
2
A time to give birth, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.
3
A time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to tear down, and a time to build.
4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5
A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them;
a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6
A time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7
A time to rend, and a time to sew;
a time to be silent, and a time to speak.
8
A time to love, and a time to hate;
a time of war, and a time of peace.
9
a What profit have workers from their toil?
10
I have seen the business that God has given to mortals to be busied about.
11
b God has made everything appropriate to its time, but has put the timeless* into their hearts so they cannot find out, from beginning to end, the work which God has done.

There is a rhythm to our lives. When all is going well, we do not pay a great deal of attention, but when disaster strikes, we become unglued, off balanced and try desperately to put things back to the place they were before....but that is not life...everything changes.

How we cope with these changes...well, some things are in our control and others are not...acceptance of the change is what is  really necessary for us to move forward.

I am as perplexed as ever by my husband's behavior...living this for 8 years doesn't make it easier to make any sense out of it...I know that something is terribly wrong with him and the rest, I surrender to God.

Good to hear you and as always your wonderful insite into MLC. Thanks Onward for sharing.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2017, 06:32:22 AM »
Oh How I miss your invaluable words of wisdom Onward!!!
Thanks for your beautiful update!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2017, 08:37:17 AM »
Hi Onward. I agree with 31. Great update! It's good to hear from you again.


Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2017, 08:53:25 AM »
Onward,
You and I have a lot of similarities with our situation, and similar timelines.
You continue to be such a force and such a great help to me and many others.  Love you for that!
Thanks for your update here on HS. 
I cannot agree more, that you are definitely one of the good ones. 
Hugs.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2017, 03:29:52 PM »
Proud to call you my friend. <3
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2017, 04:07:53 PM »
Such great advice. Now....to follow it. ;)
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2017, 04:45:56 PM »
Hello Onward,

Wonderful to read you. What a great, posivite, uplifting post.  :)

I don’t have a reconnection underway, or a reconciliation to get excited about.

I think that applies to most of us here. It seems a point comes when many of our stories become more and more about us and our " boring, and good" lives.  :) And our peace.  :)

I also agree with all your points.

We used to say MLC was like watching paint dry....incredibly slow.

It is. But, once we pass the initial shock, MLC is far more fun. At least, I tend to find several of the things MLCers do comical.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline No expectations

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2017, 06:01:07 PM »
Onward,

Thank you for your post.   I have always appreciated and gained from you.   Tonight, I had a joint MC with H.  It was tough, as always.   Made me question myself,  my stand, my direction.   Your post comforts me.

Gold to see you back.
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline BittyBoosMom

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2017, 09:43:30 AM »
Catching up and attaching  ;)
Me - 49
H - 50
D8; SS26
Alienator: Yes, OW, PA
BD1: 03/16
BD2: 05/16 - Leaves home & moves in w/OW
07/16: Comes home
BD3: 08/16 - Leaves home again & moves back in w/OW
08/16 - Filed for divorce
04/17 - Awarded sole physical & legal custody of D
08/17 - Legally separated
11/17 - OW kicks H out - H is hospitalized shortly thereafter and turns to me for support
12/17 - H starts talking to OW again
1/18 - H moves back in w/OW
"You got me, I'm cornered, my back to the wall , no bed of roses, ain't no bed at all, I'm walkin' the wire, I stumble and fall, I got the message but I ain't gonna crawl"...Comin' Under Fire by Def Leppard

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2017, 11:47:15 AM »
Feeling a little like a turtle poking out from my shell. It's been a busy fall, and I've not been to HS very often.  Nothing much was going on MLC-land, and after a few years of same old, same old nothing, the story line gets a little old.

And now, there is a change.

After almost 4 years of nothing other than BD, a whirlwind of emotional trauma, being tossed away like yesterday's trash, and then a long, long period of nothing, I am now living proof that the LBS decides.

Yesterday was the 21st anniversary of our first date.

And yesterday, I retained a collaborative law attorney to initiate an amicable process to legally separate our remaining joint assets. It's a very different process, and I do hope that it will enable us to both have some certainty in our lives, without causing any more damage to either of us.

Despite a lot of pressure from people who love me, I am not filing for divorce. I don't expect anyone other than someone who's had a similar experience and made a similar decision to understand, and that's OK.

For newbies, I am one of those folks who never resolved anything legally. I didn't want to rock the boat. Wanted to let time do its work. Didn't want to create an adversarial environment. I thought if I stayed true to my values of grace, dignity and integrity he might see the light. H seemed content to just run, leave things in my hands, and take up a new life as if I never existed. He's not quite a vanisher, because he will respond to administrative matters. But otherwise I am a ghost to him.

It has taken a very long time for me to get here. But, I also know that every step in this cyclical process takes the time that it takes. For any fellow wanderers traversing Limbo Land Wilderness, I thought I would just share that finally doing something has brought me more relief (so far) than it has pain.

I am sad, and I have no doubt the road ahead will not be easy and the process will be strewn with emotional landmines. But I also see a future ahead. A future filled with hope.

This poem came across my FB feed earlier this week. It sums up this season perfectly for me.

SHE CHOSE

She realized she had this one
This big, bold,
and beautiful life.
And she realized
she didn't want to live it
chasing and crying
and apologizing.
Starving and fearing
and regretting.
She realized she wanted to live it
proudly and freely
and creatively.
Lovingly and fully
and sweetly.
She realized
she could choose.
And so, she chose.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 11:51:04 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2017, 11:49:46 AM »
Thanks for sharing Onward.. I know it hurts..it all hurts.

It is good though for others to read what we are going through. As you stated so very well, not many people who have not walked this road would understand why we feel the way we do.

Take care.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline serenity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2017, 12:12:46 PM »
Hello Onward,

Thank you for posting and we do understand - we all do but obviously people in the real world never do.

It's been 7 1/2 years for me and our financial stuff was settled when my H left. We are still married and I've always said it's my H's divorce and for him to face and he never has.

It's taken me a long time like you, to feel ok but I always say - we are the ones that eventually come out of this ok, stronger and better. I've learnt and grown so much. We all have

Hugs

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2017, 02:37:08 PM »
Hi Onward,

Thank you for your update.

We do understand. In real life, unless they have lived it, people don't.

I thought if I stayed true to my values of grace, dignity and integrity he might see the light.

Sadly, MLCers only seem to see the light when they are ready for it.

Loved the poem.

Currently, my choise is different. After years of trying, and going nowhere with the legalities, I decide not to bother. What will be will be. My peace of mind is now more important.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2017, 06:13:08 PM »
I'm glad that you can see a future ahead that is filled with hope. Once you can see that you have everything that you need.

Online Treasur

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2017, 08:46:28 PM »
Completely understand why you'd make that choice. And how lucky we all are to have a place where people 'get it'. Wishing you well.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online stillbaffled

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2017, 09:00:06 PM »
I'm glad you dropped back in to share an update with us.  Thank you for thinking of us and bothering to take the time to let us know where you are at with your journey.  I hope this hurdle is a good one for you to get past. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline Shocked

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2017, 10:01:06 PM »
Good to hear from you Onward!!! Sending you support and caring and you proceed on your choice!!!🤗
I care🤗
H 51
W 58
M 22 Years
2 AD both married from my first M
BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2017, 05:26:39 AM »
We all have a choice and once we feel it we can do it!
Thanks for the reminder onward!
(Hugs)
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Offline No expectations

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2017, 01:15:25 PM »
Onward,

You sound good.  At peace.  That is so beautiful.

I love the poem.  It fits perfectly.
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2017, 11:59:42 AM »
I just saw an Alex and Ani bracelet with that saying on it “She chose.” Now I think I may have to get it bc that poem is amazing and so empowering. Thank you for continuing to share your story.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2018, 10:46:39 PM »
Well, if gaps in posting and visiting the board are any indication of healing and getting a life, I guess I'm doing well.  :P

It's been quite some time since I last checked in. Since I initiated the legal separation process, it has been a whirlwind of legal activity....NOT!!!

In true MLC fashion, nothing has happened. It's been almost four years, and we have no formal agreement in place. It's time. Ironic, but not surprising, that it's the LBS taking care of it.At this point, I'm not sure H has even retained a lawyer. So, unlike the rush to move out, figure out who he is, and live a life w ith anyone but me, it seems H is is less of a hurry to bring some formal structure to his separation. Anyone who has been on the forum for a while and observed MLC behaviour will not be surprised.

That's not to say there isn't a lot going on in my life. I find myself moving - yet again. Long story made short, my tenant has vacated the property I own in the downtown core of the city where I live. It is a very popular location, and real estate has increased in value here. It was my plan to sell, and find a new home of my own. However, the tax implications were not in my favour, so even though it will be an expensive place to live, I've let H know that I will be moving into the property.  The decision to move has been very sudden, so there has been a lot to do.

There's a very, very long story there (the property was bought with a gift from my parents shortly before BD. It had been our  (at least I thought it was "our") dream to downsize and live there. Now, it will just be me.

How the proceeds should be split is a source of dispute with H and I. As far as I am concerned, the property is primarily mine. Legally I am mostly on solid ground; ethically I know I am. Nevertheless, he disagrees. Enough said. I engaged a collaborative law lawyer to try and keep some level of graciousness and respect through what is going to be a really hard process. That's all I can do as I move forward to create some financial certainty in my own life while honouring the marriage that was.

I am sad to be moving from my lovely rental on the lake. It has been a year of tremendous healing here.

And I am also exciting to be back in a property that is mine. Moving from serenity of the lake to the buzz of the city is going to be a bit of a shock. I haven't felt lonely while living in quiet isolation. I hope I won't living alone in a crowd.

One thing I know for sure is that what everyone said years ago is proving to be true....it does get better.

Let another chapter in the unexpected adventure begin....

"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Thunder

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2018, 04:30:10 AM »
Nice to hear an update from you, Onward.
Sorry about the snails pace these MLCer take, but you sound good.

I hope you end up loving your new place.   :)

If that property was a gift from your parents I would think there should be no question it should be yours. 
Well good luck with things, hope it all can be done without jumping through a bunch of hoops.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2018, 06:05:44 AM »
Quote
keep some level of graciousness and respect

On your part you mean.  ::) ;) I'm hoping he's either tired [you know how hard his life has been!] or wants to hurry up and settle--tired is possible, hurry, maybe not.   

Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2018, 09:38:46 AM »
Hey
Good to read your post Onward!
You sound good, and, always an inspiration.
Buzz of the city might be a nice change.
Hope to check out your new digs soon.  ;)
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline UKStander

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2018, 10:24:25 AM »
I like the sound of the new city place for you, Onward. I hope the negotiations go as smoothly as possible, I really do.

Big changes. Which you are facing with bravery.

Sending admiration and mojo. 

BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 2012, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. He moved in with OW in 10/14 and I heard little more. I instigated D in 2016.  He's still living in rental with OW and her D but the cracks are starting to appear.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2018, 03:30:17 PM »
Hello Onward,

Nice to read you.

In true MLC fashion, nothing has happened.

Surprise, said no one on HS.  ::)

One thing I know for sure is that what everyone said years ago is proving to be true....it does get better.

It truly does. None of us believes it, until we get there.

I hope you enjoy living in the city. Looking forward to hear more about your new adventure.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online stillbaffled

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2018, 03:51:01 PM »

One thing I know for sure is that what everyone said years ago is proving to be true....it does get better.

Let another chapter in the unexpected adventure begin....

One of my favorite things to read here when veterans post! 

Thanks for the update and best wishes for your move and the new location. 

Chapters in an unexpected adventure........very well put, Onward!   :)
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2018, 05:26:29 PM »
Living in the city sounds like an exciting change. I hope you enjoy it!

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2018, 05:03:05 AM »
Hi Onward!
Good to hear from you.   I know you enjoyed your lake house but honestly it sounds as though you are healed and the move to a busier life is right for you now!  sounds kind of exciting, I am a little jealous  ;)   

Timing is everything!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2018, 06:37:29 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Onward on February 05, 2018, 10:46:39 PM
In true MLC fashion, nothing has happened.

Hello Onward!

I used to read this phrase on HS but have not seen it for a while.

"It's like watching paint dry on a wall".

I am not quite sure why, I have always felt this sense of "what's going on with this"? Most things in life have a certain rhythm, something at the end that is quite clear and understandable....a football game ends and one team is the winner, there are movie credits at the end of a film as we get up and leave the theatre, we lay our head down at night and fall asleep and wake again in the morning.

Orderly, we know what to expect, we "see" a pattern which is somewhat predictable.

But with MLC, something is off...the "resolution" that we expect in other areas of our life just doesn't seem to get to a place that makes sense.

Luckily, we continue to heal and find ourselves in this new and unwanted life.... and as you so eloquently said:

Quote
Quote from: Onward on February 05, 2018, 10:46:39 PM

One thing I know for sure is that what everyone said years ago is proving to be true....it does get better.

Let another chapter in the unexpected adventure begin....

Enjoy your new home!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2018, 02:03:37 PM »
Thanks everyone  :)

Just popping in after a really hectic period.

And to confirm some of the other things veterans post are also turning out to be true.

H is behaving in ways I never imagined he would. I was an advocate of the 'wait and see' approach to legal issues.
Yah, well, think I might experience the hard way that no good deed goes unpunished.  >:( >:(

There are not a lot of details I can provide, other than to repeat "Time will tell...."

In the meantime, I have learned to carry my head high.
And to not be afraid.
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »
H is behaving in ways I never imagined he would.

They sure do it, don't they?

I was an advocate of the 'wait and see' approach to legal issues.
Yah, well, think I might experience the hard way that no good deed goes unpunished.  >:( >:(

I am sorry, Onward.

In the meantime, I have learned to carry my head high.
And to not be afraid.

Excellent.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2018, 07:37:17 PM »
It was only luck and not good planning that things turned out okay for me.  Who'd a thought?

Onward and upward.  ;)

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2018, 10:16:40 PM »
I hope everything turns out well!

You have good reason to carry your head high!

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2018, 10:35:35 PM »
So sorry Onward.

What I still have difficulty comprehending is that the person I knew as my husband truly is not that person anymore. My heart still thinks he is and even my head cannot wrap itself around this being who seemingly has no heart or soul.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline serenity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2018, 01:17:37 AM »
Good to hear from you Onward

It's so nice to see people pop back in and update us on their situation

Hugs

X

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2018, 02:07:39 PM »
Hi all.

Just a quick update on my situation -- sorry, I really can't go into a lot of details.

Yes, indeed, no good deed goes unpunished. I suppose there is no way for two parties to think or feel that the demise of a marriage has ended well or fairly, BUT.......

What I predicted has come to pass. H has behaved in an entitled way I would not have imagined. I had decided going into the legal process that I would continue to conduct myself with grace. There have been moments when grace has been hard to find.

Long story short: he put forward a proposal, I countered with what I though was fair. Well, more than fair to him, but I doubt very much that he will see it that way.

He agreed to my counter. No further finagling. Which is good, because I really don't want to get down in the mud. This has already cost me so much more than money. What a sad end to a good life.

I'm just waiting for the formal paperwork now.

For newbies, for four years I've not wanted to "make things worse" by adding legal animosity to the mix.  And, I thought H would take action, since leaving was his idea. Silly me.

He didn't act on anything.
Even though he is deep in another relationship, which he has never mentioned to me. I have a pretty good idea what he tells her, though.
He is pretty much a semi-vanisher. Not just from me, but from everyone we knew, and it appears from members of his own family.
And even with the settlement in place, I have good reasons to believe he is still angry at me; still eradicating any linkage to me. Who knows why.

It was an outside event that finally pushed me to initiate a legal separation agreement. Due to market forces and the law in my jurisdiction, my choice has hurt me financially. I didn't act because I had very good reason to believe we had an agreed date of separation and valuation of property. It probably isn't a surprise that what I had good reason to believe was "true" was not regarded the same way by H.  >:(

On the other hand, being able to act without bitterness or revenge has also given me tremendous emotional balance and confidence that I simply did not have at BD.

Yes, the separation is going to cost me.
Yes, I could fight over a settlement amount.
But then I would be paying substantial legal fees, and it could take a long time to reach a settlement that would look much the same anyway.
I'm so appreciative there are no children being hurt through all of this.
I've decided this is a payment for my emotional and financial freedom.

On principle, I am not filing for divorce. Unless someone comes along giving me a reason to.
And since I'm not looking for another relationship, that may never happen.

But I surely do wish I had initiated a legal separation agreement a while ago.
Of course, that wish is also hindsight.
So who knows, maybe everything just needed to happen in its own good time, and not till I was ready.

What I do NOT regret is living by a mantra of 'grace, dignity and integrity'. There are things that are worth more than money. 

If you are a relative newbie, if I can offer any advise at all, it is to act as soon as you are able (meaning emotionally and psychologically) to protect yourself financially.

What matters is what is right for you.
Nothing makes any difference to them, anyway.

And yes, one day, everything really is going to be OK.
Mostly.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 02:17:18 PM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2018, 02:54:57 PM »
Hi Onward,

Thank you for your update.

Most of the times, MLCers do nothing legal wise, or start but never end. Sometimes we end (or start).

But I surely do wish I had initiated a legal separation agreement a while ago.
Of course, that wish is also hindsight.
So who knows, maybe everything just needed to happen in its own good time, and not till I was ready.

For some reason, things tend to happen in their own time. Not when we want, or even when we are ready.

What I do NOT regret is living by a mantra of 'grace, dignity and integrity'. There are things that are worth more than money. 

Indeed they are.

Hugs.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2018, 02:58:23 PM »
I am sorry that it is turning out this way. SHAME ON HIM!!!!!

But you, you are soaring above all this mess.

You have your integrity and honesty and truth...for you are a healthy and good person and will continue to be so.

I reiterate what you have stated...newbies or others who do not have a legal separation of assets in place...do so. Don't wait, don't think he will be fair...if anything, from what I have seen, the longer this goes on, the less fair they become.

Protecting yourself financially will not mean that they are lost for good...but if they are, you will look back and say "phew".
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2018, 03:21:42 PM »
Hi Onward,
It is a damn shame.  That is for sure.
You have to do what you have to do to protect you, period.

Hugs my friend.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline CallingHeart

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2018, 07:55:20 PM »
Hi Onward
I'm glad you've taken the financial action that allows you personal protection and also the opportunity to live by your own moral compass - dignity, integrity, and grace. That is win/win, even if it came with a cost.  Heck! What we've all been through is so costly, right?

I fully understand your choice to wait out any further legal action.

Legal separation is an event in time.  Dignity, integrity and grace will go way beyond any event or action.

Keep going Onward !!!
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.

It's no longer all about MLC!  
Pfffffffftttt !

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2018, 08:04:51 PM »
In my opinion, you are the personification of grace, dignity, and integrity so living that way should be easy for you. I'm sorry to hear that waiting has cost you financially but I agree with you that there are a lot of things worth more than money. It's been nice hearing from you again. :)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2018, 04:58:16 AM »
ALWAYS, you have always been full of Grace, Dignity and Integrity Onward!
I have always viewed you as such!

(hugs)
31
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 04:59:57 AM by 31andcounting »
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2018, 05:23:05 AM »
Onward,

Sorry to hear that you have taken a loss.

Yes, there are things that worth more than money! I firmly believe that.

(Hugs)
M 56
H 56
S 26
S 24
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Thunder

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2018, 05:27:54 AM »
Hi Onward,

Thanks for the update.  I agree with the others, you have kept grace and dignity through this.  I'm just sorry it ended this way.

I also agree with you, if nothing else I hope newbies can at the very least not be afraid to protect themselves financially, because the longer it goes the more selfish and unreasonable these MLCer's become.
I understand the fear they have, but you have to somehow overcome it and do what is best for your protection.

It doesn't always have to be a D.  It could be a legal sep. or a financial settlement in place, but do something.
You won't be sorry.

Good luck with everything now, Onward.  Let us know, occassionally, how things are going with you.   :)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online stillbaffled

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2018, 05:17:10 PM »

What matters is what is right for you.
Nothing makes any difference to them, anyway.

And yes, one day, everything really is going to be OK.
Mostly.

Thank you for sharing an update, Onward. 

Thanks for the words of wisdom as well. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2018, 07:50:49 PM »
I think it's time I popped in for a bit of an update before this thread ends up in the archival dustbin.

I've been rather restless lately. I suspect it has an awful lot to do with putting into place the details of the separation agreement, and the financial implications, of which there have been many.

For the first time in a very long while I've had to apply for a large loan based on my income alone. It took a while for the approval, which made me rather anxious. I'll have a far more substantial mortgage now than I ever imagined I would at my age. Aspects of it are particularly galling, given that I've had to buy back a property that was purchased through my inheritance in the first place. However, it is hard to complain when I have witnessed so many others on this forum who have been left in far more devastating circumstances.

The thing that really does rub me the wrong way is that H is mightily attached to the money as recognition of his part in the marriage, while refusing to acknowledge he benefitted from our marriage in any way. That his decision alone has blown up both our financial futures doesn't seem to occur to him.

That, and the fact the financial planning my parents made to provide a nice life is now going to fund his life with another woman.
And her kids.
When we didn't have any because he didn't see himself as a good father.
So now he is playing happy family man to someone else's children when he has no relationship with his own.
And opportunity to be a mother has long passed me by.
All that stings more than a little, too.

The injustice of it all is mind-numbing some days. Part of the ongoing lesson in letting go. Which I cannot claim I have fully learned yet. Though I keep plugging away.

On the positive side, I do have some certainty in place now. And there is a lot of good life ahead.  One never quite knows what will happen.

One thing I didn't quite expect to happen was to see him sitting on a restaurant patio on my way home a few days ago. He was with the children, no OP in sight. As much as I've braced myself for the possibility, it did throw me for an emotional loop. Thankfully, LBS friends were able to hear my call for help and point me back to stability and calm.

The time is takes for the emotional fall out of this whole experience is long.
But bit by bit, day by day, it does get better.
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Online stillbaffled

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2018, 09:06:21 PM »
Thank you for the update, Onward. 

I certainly understand your feelings about the mortgage business at this time in our lives.  I took mine for 30 years and it will probably be paid off by my kids when they sell the house after I'm gone. 

But you are right---bit by bit, day by day, it does get better. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2018, 04:45:11 AM »
Onward,

There is so much damage done, in so many areas. :-\

All we can do is face forward, and take steps in the right direction! It does get better, it is not as we imagined, however, it does get better. You are right, we don't know what is around the corner :)

I am sorry for the nasty jolts along the way :( as life goes on we learn to right ourselves and continue our paths bit by bit...

(((Hugs)))
M 56
H 56
S 26
S 24
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2018, 06:24:52 AM »
NOBODY wants to hear this in the early and not so early days but, once all the legal and financial stuff is done, one day you wake up and realize, I have no-one to please but myself.  I can make decisions for me, make plans for me--in short I am free.  And that is a wonderful feeling.  Even if it isn't what you chose, life alone can be pretty good.
Triggers are triggers no matter how shocking.  I'm afraid those moments will be part of life.  We handle them and carry on.

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2018, 06:29:34 AM »
Thanks for the update Onward :)

Truly no-one knows what the future holds so please continue to remain open to it!

In my mind I see you sitting on a beautiful patio by some water sitting under a colorful umbrella sipping wine with a wonderful man and his children or maybe grandchildren!  I see you very happy and content!

You are such a loving soul!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline heroIam

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2018, 07:28:42 AM »
Truly no-one knows what the future holds so please continue to remain open to it!

In my mind I see you sitting on a beautiful patio by some water sitting under a colorful umbrella sipping wine with a wonderful man and his children or maybe grandchildren!  I see you very happy and content!

You are such a loving soul!

(hugs)
31


I agree with 31. 
You made some tough decisions and still continue to make tough decisions.
And stronger for it.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2018, 08:55:45 AM »
NOBODY wants to hear this in the early and not so early days but, once all the legal and financial stuff is done, one day you wake up and realize, I have no-one to please but myself.  I can make decisions for me, make plans for me--in short I am free.  And that is a wonderful feeling.  Even if it isn't what you chose, life alone can be pretty good.
Triggers are triggers no matter how shocking.  I'm afraid those moments will be part of life.  We handle them and carry on.

So totally agree with Calamity. The discomfort right now will be replaced with peace in the near future - know that. Resistance only prolongs the imminent arrival.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2018, 07:02:53 PM »
Hi Onward,

Nice to read you.  :)

NOBODY wants to hear this in the early and not so early days but, once all the legal and financial stuff is done, one day you wake up and realize, I have no-one to please but myself.  I can make decisions for me, make plans for me--in short I am free.  And that is a wonderful feeling.

Even if legal and financial stuff is not done, it will still happen. And indeed, it is wonderful.

You will be more than OK, Onward.

Cal is right, a trigger is a trigger, they will still come, but their effect is less severe and goes away faster.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline CallingHeart

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2018, 07:35:56 PM »
Hi Onward,
You got approved for a substantial sized loan. Yay you!
That says a lot about how others can place their trust in you and how you can stand on your own financially. 

Personally, I think seeing your H on the patio with kids is probably "more" than a trigger. Not sure what I would call it, but that would set most people back.

When I lament about being childless, I read Isaiah 54.
CallingHeart....
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.

It's no longer all about MLC!  
Pfffffffftttt !

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #91 on: June 13, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
Onward—that part about seeing him on the restaurant patio with her children tore my heart out. I can only imagine how you felt. You seemed to have bounced back pretty quickly and that is amazing. But allow yourself to be sad too bc that is rough.

That all said, look at all you’ve accomplished all by yourself. Pretty awesome I think.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline OnwardTopic starter

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #92 on: June 14, 2018, 11:54:46 AM »
Thank you everyone. One of the unexpected blessings of all of this has been finding a community of friends who 'get it'.

I was thinking this morning that one of the traps I can fall into is looking around and seeing all of the happy couples out there and envying "why them and not me?"

I'm a good person. I was (am) a good wife. A good friend. What do they/does she have that I don't have that he would just throw it all away? (I know, I know. He's in crisis. It's not me, wasn't the marriage etc. etc. etc. But I do sometimes have these thoughts.)

Usually, I can wrestle them into the ground pretty quickly. But the "pop up thoughts" do prompt a small wave of sadness.

Today I had to remind myself of how many good people I know - including this forum - who have also experienced the trauma of being cast aside. I am definitely not alone.

I both know and don't know why I am going through a real funk right now. And I'm annoyed with myself that after all this time, and despite knowing what I need t do to get out of a cycle, I still fall into the blues.

Sigh.
As I said to RT earlier today, and Calamity has often reminded me, the emotional fallout of this sure does last a long time.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:57:57 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Anjae

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #93 on: June 14, 2018, 06:22:54 PM »
You are not alone.

And you also don't know if the same will not, sadly, happen to one of those happy couples.

You and your husband were once a happy couple. So where the rest of us and our spouses.

It is not that easy get out of a cycle even when we know we need to. Falling into the blues may keep happening.

Things get better, but, at times, there may fall backs. Don't worry. It is all a normal part of our process.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline calamity

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Re: Between the earth and the sky...
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2018, 11:23:20 PM »
Quote
And you also don't know if the same will not, sadly, happen to one of those happy couples.

You and your husband were once a happy couple. So where the rest of us and our spouses.
Yes. 50%... 
And I always wonder if those couples are married to each other. ;)

 

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