[What now]

What Now,

Why do you not tell him that what is going on is not of your choice?  If that is your truth, why are you not standing in it?

I kicked him out (didn't know what was wrong with him). Because I kicked him out, he sees it as my choice. I've said it was his choice lots of times and his replies just annoy me. When he's in monster mode, he spews massively. I'm a b!Tch, I have severe mental health issues, he list goes on. I guess I stopped saying it because I don't really know how to deal with him.

He is the complete opposite to how he used to be and I think I still see him as the man I fell in love with.

[1phoenix]

What Now,

At the risk of the wrath of others, I think they are still the same person, only they are growing in a way that is destructive.  They are hurting and do not know how to deal with the pain, themselves or their families. 

So in order to achieve their growth, they do what they know from their childhood, run, yell, hide, leave behind, become self absorbed. 

[strongFaith34]

I agree. As much as we think this is not the H we recognize,  these are our H's but the teenager version of themselves before marriage and maturing. They are lashing out and treating us like their mothers because they cannot connect to us in an adult relationship type of way. I don't think it's possible to transform into a whole another person but it is possible to regress to earlier behavior.

[What now]

Thanks 1phoenix and Ocean. I agree, he is the same person, ive just never seen this side of him.

I will just treat him as I did my step children. Not budge. Be firm but fair. Tough love and let him know how his decisions got him to where he is but know when to stop and pick my battles.

Thank you

[Philadelphiagirl]

Interesting discussion, a few times during our marriage my MLCH and I discussed the fact that we wished that we had met sooner (met at 31 and 34). On at least two of those occasions though he said that I probably wouldn't have looked at him because he wasn't a very nice person then. I also heard stories of some of the antics he got up to from old friends.

I'm just wondering if the Monstering entitled nightmare of a man that he is being now is actually that not nice younger version of himself??? And, he is right - I would not have looked twice at the person he is now.

Phillyg xxx     

[OffRoad]

.....  Only those of us that know our spouses best would recognize the surface monster.  In my H....the pupils are presently (as of the last time I saw him) gone as in he's only got the whites of his eyes and then the color of his eyes.  The black in his eyes no longer appear there.  I think that may be a sign of how the MLC is affecting him.  If he were on drugs the pupils would fill the color of the eyes not the other way around.  Then there's how he handles himself as in body movements....head movements and physical reactions in general that only I know well enough to know whether it's normal or not.  Notice how most of that is on the surface stuff?

I understand what you mean. For me, at graduation lunch yesterday, it was the gruff way H did not want to see the pictures of the trip S and I took, or the anger when he saw his suit not on a hanger(because I was going to take it to the cleaners after S used it). The way he was constantly looking at his phone. He never did that before, but no one else would notice.

For me, though, it doesn't matter where my H is. In the tunnel, in replay, on the moon. Nothing I do is right or good enough or whatever. Since I can't do anything for him, all I can do is get out of the way. Unless or until he shows up on my doorstep begging my forgiveness for what he has done, where he is anywhere is of no concern to me. I guess what I'm saying is that we can't tell where they really are, other than not willing to be with us, unless there is a major change towards reconnection without replay behavior. Trying to figure anything else out is an exercise in frustration.

[needinput]

Hello everyone, I was curious how long after BD the LBSs continue to get anxiety and/or panic attacks? I still get panic attacks randomly but they seem to be triggered by stress and the stress does not have to be related to communication with the MLCer (I have a vanisher so we are rarely in contact). I did start having those after BD though. Also, is it common for the MLCer to have empathy for OW/OM and others who have problems, while not having any empathy for the LBS? Thanks.

[Philadelphiagirl]

Hi, I would think that the anxiety is pretty common with LBS. We have a lot to deal with on various levels. I still get panic attacks (BD 12/16) and am stressed a lot but our finances are no way sorted so a lot of my anxiety relates to that. My MLCH has zero empathy for me but pretends that he has it for the kids - who he hasn't seen for 7 weeks today - but it's not really there. For example my DD had a cast removed at hospital nearly a month ago and he only asked about it last week (to my son - will not speak to me). Also, they are on their school outing today and he doesn't even know where they have gone. My DD was sick a few weeks ago and he didn't even get in contact to see how she was. I know that that is more disinterest than lack of empathy but I doubt he cares about us very much at all now. I'm assuming that he still has it for others as he is trying to tell the world he is a good Dad. Keep strong and take care xxx

[Thunder]

What not, I don't think they are the same person.  I think that person is gone.

I believe some part of them never grew.  This crisis puts them back to a place where their growth was stunted.  They were probably never really whole.

Hopefully one thing this crisis does for them is to allow them to regrow as a person.  The core person I still there, but it needs to be a healthier version of themselves.

RCR articles say they shed the skin they were in and have to decide who they really want to be.  This takes time.  They may put on different skins to see how they fit.  Presents them to the world to see how it feels.  If one doesn't work they try another and another until it feels comfortable.

I think that's why we get so confused.  They seem to change so often we don't recognize them anymore.

They will be changed afterwards.  Never to be the person they were, but hopefully a better, healthier. more whole person.

I truly believe some of them change so much it's not possible to reconnect with them.  They've changed too much and you are no longer compatible.  While others only change certain aspects of their personality and reconcilement is quite possible.

You need to remember, we will change too.  If both parties change in the same direct, for lack of a better word, it could end up being a wonderful relationship.

[What now]

Hi thunder, your perspective is much appreciated.

I'm not saying I don't buy what you are saying, but is there any chance they can flit between being themselves and completely changing?

It seems the only person he has "changed" with is me. Oh, and his mum. They were close but distant before but they're even closer now. Also, his step-mum. They were close before but, because she speaks her mind to him and doesn't let him disrespect me, he has monstered on her a couple of times. He seems to monster on anybody who stands up to him.

D, who is only 9, keeps calling him out on things. Simple things. For example, he sent her a message the other night saying "nighty night". She asked if he was ok and said "that's not like you at all". He asked for clarification and she just told him he normally says something different. She also told me (in her words) "dad still loves you. He's just a bit confused. He's happy with ow but I think he's just pretending most of the time mum. I think daddy is very unhappy but doesn't know how to put it into words".

So, to my knowledge, he's only REALLY changed with me. Relationship with mum has gotten closer and step-mum more strained. Almost as if they have swapped places.

D has noticed a change in him too. Surely, if they were a different person completely, they would change with everyone and not just the LBS?