[Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)]

Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)

Denial (shock, confusion)

1 (1.7%)

Bargaining (trying to figure out why, planning, adjusting)

1 (1.7%)

Anger (fear, resentment)

3 (5.1%)

Depression (despair, exhaustion)

13 (22%)

Acceptance (detachment, calm, control)

33 (55.9%)

Renewal

8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: October 27, 2017, 04:41:15 AM

[Treasur]

That is a tough question. It is pretty much impossible not to have some sort of trigger through the day.

Songs from our bands on the radio, looking at yahoo to see Walking dead has started...knowing we have watched every episode since it began together. Seeing his coffee cup still sitting on the little cup holder, going into my new wardrobe we built for two...that now serves one. Our big king size bed, that is now just mine. Triggers are impossible to avoid really.

I seem to have desensitised to the more routine ones (the bed, the closet, the cup). I still see them and get a bit sad and think about it, but it isn't as bad as it was a few weeks ago. But I still can't watch 'our' shows, or 'our' songs, or do things we did together.

The other day the song ''Killing strangers'' came on. It has a line something like ''Killing strangers so we dont kill the ones that we love'' and that triggered an imagine of him and OW, in a PA, because in my brain it associated that line with what he is doing as a MLC. That sent me into floods of tears for ages.

Wasn't really a song that was ours, it was random, just came on. But it was so apt to the situation.

So what can you do to avoid or minimise the triggers?

[Treasur]

In a (completely) unscientific survey...and adjusted to fit the fact that Renewal was added after the survey started...rounded up....it seems that
2% are in denial/shock
2% in the bargaining stage
5% in anger/resentment
22% in depression/exhaustion
53% in acceptance
17% in renewal

Do you think that's an accurate flavour of the overall sense you get from LBS posters here?
How does it influence the support we can and do give each other?

[MyBrainIsBroken]

It seems to me like there's a lot more anger and resentment and a lot less acceptance than the survey indicates but that might be related to me being overly sensitive to anger. It may also be a reflection of the threads that I read since I don't read all of the threads.

Going back to what you said, Brain, you would feel optimistic and be enthusiastically looking forward to the day ahead right? So, again just focusing on facts, behaviours and you, what would that look like if I was a fly on your wall? What would you be doing or not doing? Who else would notice and what would they see?

The only thing that I can say in response to this is that there would be somebody in my life who would notice. Right now nobody notices anything I do. I'm pretty much invisible.

I realized last night while I was writing a PM to another LBS that I haven't ever cared about a career, money, or owning a big house or other material things. All that I wanted from life was to spend time with my wife. I loved being around her and doing things with her. Does that mean that I was dependent upon her for my happiness? I have no idea. All that I know is that I always felt better when I was with her than I did when I wasn't. I suppose there was something wrong with that.

BTW, they say that depression and irritability go hand-in-hand in men. I don't know if that's true for men in general but as my depression deepens I have found that relationship seems to apply to me.

I have also realized now that my wife has been with the om for almost 3.5 years and our divorce is now completed that my belief that there is a chance of us being a couple again is fading which is probably the reason for my worsening depression. The light at the end of the tunnel is looking pretty dim. That makes it more difficult for me to feel optimistic and enthusiastic.

Thanks for the thread Treasur.

[Thunder]

MB,

I felt the same way.  I didn't care about all those things either.  I just wanted to be with my H every day.  We did everything together, and I assume he felt the same way.  We were inseparapable.  It was like since we met we didn't need anyone else.

I wouldn't say my H is the only thing that makes me happy, but I am the happiest when I'm with him.
So there ya go.  You are not alone. 

I don't think I would be with anyone if I wasn't with him.  I really have no interest in other men or a new relationship.

Treasur, remember there was no Renewal when this poll started, so some of the Acceptance should be renewal.  I believe you said about 10 or more, is that right?  Or am I way off?   

[Anjae]

It seems to me like there's a lot more anger and resentment and a lot less acceptance than the survey indicates but that might be related to me being overly sensitive to anger. It may also be a reflection of the threads that I read since I don't read all of the threads.

I agree. The same for denial/shock and bargaining and even for depression/exhaustion.

In the total of HS members, that may not be true -many no longer post - but I think it is acurate if we go with those who post regularly.

All that I wanted from life was to spend time with my wife. I loved being around her and doing things with her.

This is understandable. I think we all wanted to spend our live with our MLCer and loved being aroun them and doing things with them.

Does that mean that I was dependent upon her for my happiness?

Not really. Missing our spouse is normal. At a point, I think we are able to become happy again even if we may still miss the MLCers.

BTW, they say that depression and irritability go hand-in-hand in men. I don't know if that's true for men in general but as my depression deepens I have found that relationship seems to apply to me.

Is it just the depression that has been deepening or also the exhaustion? Mr J two depressions previous to MLC did not have anger - aside from the when, the first time, he was given Prozac. The Prozac drove him insane, angry and made him agressive. He detested the Prozac and what it did to him.

His MLC depression has always been agry and agressive.

Maybe you are right, the more depressed a man his, the angrier he is. Or it may have to do with a cumulative effect of exhaustion or something else. Hard to tell.

But if you are finding yourself more depressed and more angry, maybe you need to try to think what may be of help to you.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Is it just the depression that has been deepening or also the exhaustion?

Both

Maybe you are right, the more depressed a man his, the angrier he is. Or it may have to do with a cumulative effect of exhaustion or something else. Hard to tell.

I wouldn't say I'm angry. I feel that anger has a recognizable and reasonable focal point, e.g. I'm angry because somebody scratched the paint on my new car or I'm angry because my boss didn't give me a raise after having promised earlier that he would. I'm not angry. I'm irritable. Little things set me off that really shouldn't. You should be thankful you're not riding with me when I'm driving my car.

But if you are finding yourself more depressed and more angry, maybe you need to try to think what may be of help to you.

My therapist wants me to start having therapy weekly instead of biweekly. I'm not sure what else might help that would be appropriate. I'm willing to entertain suggestions. I know that ice cream helps but I want to hold off on treating it with ice cream until after I run the NYC Marathon next weekend. It looks like having an affair is a very effective short term solution but I'm not sure whether it has the same effect once you're divorced. Running helps but it's too tiring and hard on the body to do for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time or 7 to 10 hours per week.

Irritability can be a sign of depression but it can also be a sign of anxiety/PTSD. The mirror work I've been doing where I've been digging into childhood FOO issues could be causing increased levels of anxiety, depression, and irritability as issues from my childhood resurface.

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/health-care/2015/03/30/depression-or-ptsd-can-cause-irritability/

[Anjae]

My mistake Brain, I should have written Irritable/Irritability. It is different from angry.

Glad I am not riding with you when you are driving your car. I truly dislike irritable drivers.

In Mr J's MLC depression/MLC, angry is accurate. Nasty and agressive also. Irritable, of course.

I have found myself irratable, angry even, of late on some days. But I am not feeling depressed. In my case, it seems to be connected to hormonal changes - the now two or three times a months "monthly" cycles seem to be doing a number on me.

I never had mood swings nor felt irritable or angry with monthly cycles before. Looks like a new things to add to the list. The vitamins and minerals help a lot, but depite them something is changing in a way I do not like.


I know you love your runs, but I think you have been running too much. Too much running, or any other kind of exercise, is detrimental. Let alone when one is already depressed. Excessive exercise will eat away precious nutrients, including minerals and vitamins.

It is also, like you said, tiring and hard on the body. It also ends up leading to a rise in cortisol and adrenaline. Two things that are necessary in an emergency, but not on a daily basis.

You know I think you should slow down on a few levels. And I know you don't want to think about it because it you stop running and the emergency work there will be an even bigger hole.

Irritability can be a sign of depression but it can also be a sign of anxiety/PTSD. The mirror work I've been doing where I've been digging into childhood FOO issues could be causing increased levels of anxiety, depression, and irritability as issues from my childhood resurface.

It could. Is the type of mirror work you are doing really necessary? Is there a point when therapy becomes detrimental?

P.S. changing your name back to Ray may also help. Ray is more positive.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I have found myself irratable, angry even, of late on some days. But I am not feeling depressed. In my case, it seems to be connected to hormonal changes - the now two or three times a months "monthly" cycles seem to be doing a number on me.

My wife was going through this prior to BD. It was so bad her doctor was talking about giving her blood transfusions. Another reason besides her depression why I found it so hard to believe that she would have an affair and another reason why I believe the om must have pursued her pretty hard. It seems to me that a woman wouldn't be very interested in beginning an affair while she was depressed and going through what you described. Push her husband away, maybe, but start an affair? Hard to imagine.

Like most things, running is best done in moderation, but moderation and running a fast marathon don't really work together. Also like most things, to excel at running you need to be consumed by it, and I have been, but I'll be cutting back after the marathon. I'm thinking about going into semi-retirement. You're also correct about the vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients but I believe one of the reasons why I'm a successful runner is because I work just as hard to maintain a healthy diet as I do training to run fast. When I started training for the NYC Marathon I quit starving myself and started eating properly, except maybe for the ice cream. In fact, I even forgot to add starving myself to the list of things I can do to make myself feel better.

It could. Is the type of mirror work you are doing really necessary? Is there a point when therapy becomes detrimental?

P.S. changing your name back to Ray may also help. Ray is more positive.

I had this conversation with my therapist last week. I told her Pandora's Box has been opened, the contents have been leaking out, and I don't think it will be possible to put the cover back on the box now. Nor do I think it would be a good idea. Maybe on my thread I'll post the conversation Little MBIB had with my therapist. He has a say in this too.

Last time I saw my therapist I showed her a photo of me prior to BD. I told her I'm not sure who that guy was or if I can ever be him again. That guy was Ray or Ray was my attempt to be that guy but I'm not there. Maybe someday.

Sorry about filling up your stages thread with all of this stuff Treasur.

[Treasur]

Thunder - adjusted the numbers to fit

Brain - no apology needed, the thread is for all of us. I think I see more anger or resentment at feeling powerless too. Maybe not as an LBS stage as such, but as a thread through the process. For some it's a reaction to things their MLC spouse is doing/not as part of a D process or with the kids. There it reads more like anger at the spouse.

But I think there is also a sort-of undirected anger at the situation/universe which is more difficult maybe. Anger with nowhere to go. Everything I've read about male depression does suggest that anger is quite commonly a part of it and it ties in with stuff about control or feeling like a victim, I guess. Maybe there is some (understandable) anger in your Pandora's Box? And you are lonely, I think, and feel unseen...I feel that too. Some of it is about my spouse because it's a very visceral rejection isn't it? But most of it is just that I think I've curled up small to survive this and disconnected from life a bit. Inner child stuff maybe - I still have moments where it just all feels so unfair.

[Shocked]

Treasur I thin k you hit in a point that I haven’t heard discussed before. The lbs being unseen. One of the last comments my vanisher said to on the night of my daughter’s wedding, a night I looked at my best, he said”I guess maybe I should have paid more attention to you’”. My BD had been 8 months earlier. He had left at that time. Those following weeks I started to find out about all his crazy MLC behaviors. I have not seen him since about a week after that wedding 14 months ago. My point is they truly are so self absorbed they don’t see us anymore. Forgetting us is one way they can act so crazy they don’t want to a partner just are the center of the world. That’s were the op comes in. A new source of hero worship.