[Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)]

Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)

Denial (shock, confusion)

1 (1.7%)

Bargaining (trying to figure out why, planning, adjusting)

1 (1.7%)

Anger (fear, resentment)

3 (5.1%)

Depression (despair, exhaustion)

13 (22%)

Acceptance (detachment, calm, control)

33 (55.9%)

Renewal

8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: October 27, 2017, 04:41:15 AM

[Albatross]

But what I was never managed to understand, and no one here or eleswhere as ever had a good enough answer, is how adding more problems/issues is going to make it less heavy for the MLCer and easier to solve any pre-existing issues. The consensus is that it makes it harder for them to solve whatever problems there may be. If so, then, MLC really brings not benefit. At least not on the issues level.

I would try to answer or at least give opinion. People project self in universe consciously and subconsciously, means in other people too. MLCers are possessed by shadow which is pure irrational, there is suppressed emotions a lot of them. They cannot cope with reality at all, so they are like people who drowning. So, they lost self. When you losing self, you are dead alive. You have nothing to lose, there coming doing things and behave like you never do, just to feel something, anything, feel alive. So, they not cure cause of crisis at all, they trying to fix self curing symptoms and there go long path of replay, they do not escape and avoid own shadow because they aren't aware of own shadow. Basically they killed old self - persona and believe that they are that impaired true self which is swallowed by shadow or that true weak self suck up shadow. If MLCer true week impaired self is swallowed by shadow then process is more intense and acting out is present.
They do not add more problems intentionally, that just happens. When they spend all things which they never did and there is no joy anymore in anything then they reaching point where is complete nothingness. That is the turning point, what else you can do ? Die literally or do what remain an that is turning inward and changing self. There is no other option.
So, crisis is not solving anything, it is destruction, but they aren't aware of destruction. From their point of view is not destruction, they are already dead and their whole old life is dead, so what else bad could happens to them ? Ant it is like literally like child birth, MLcer is in tunnel, there is no way to get back, bridge is burned, they can go just forward and to be born again.

[Treasur]

Thanks, Albatross
I suppose the LBS also deals with destruction - finances, family, home, security, relationships, sense of identity as a spouse, future plans - but for them, the destruction is a consequence of someone else's actions and emotions.

We go through our own death and rebirth in a sense, but simultaneously dealing with MLC external chaos too.

[Helpingme!]

Treasur

  I think we , as LBS have to be reborn in some way. Just my thinking was i wanted my old W back, thats it. But now i see i may get my W back one day, but she will never be the same. So in some way if its ever going to work, we have change too.

[Treasur]

Yes, we change for different reasons, don't we? Maybe at first to try and get our spouses back or 'fix' the situation, then to survive, and finally to try to heal and build something new whether than includes our spouses or not.

[Helpingme!]

Treasur, so very true. Its hard. Im still very deeply in love with my W. But i catch myself thinking sometimes, what if she never comes back to me? We have to change either way, but we cant just lay in misery forever.

[Treasur]

No, we can't, Help, and it wouldn't help anything if we did.

I know you love your W. I love my H. It is about finding a both/and maybe, rather than an either/or. To love them and to move forward without denying current reality or knowing the eventual outcome.

[nah]

People project self in universe consciously and subconsciously, means in other people too.

I don't know if I'm helping or making this more confusing but reading Albratross's post reminded me of things the Leaver has said over the years, which seems to me show his progress through the tunnel, even though it's oh so slow....

Early days....  "WE" are on a different page.  "WE" need space

About a year later, in the end stages of the divorce.  "YOU' are really good at
making "ME" feel guilty.  YOU are making everyone hate ME.  (people I never met) 

A year after that in a rare phone call ( We hadn't talked in about a year)
"You need to learn to accept that I have changed.  I'm a different person now"
*** Classic projection, how would he know how I feel?  We hadn't spoken in a year**

A few months ago....

"I look in the mirror every single fire-trucking morning, I  think of you and the life we use to have, sometimes I actually get physically sick.  I feel like I'm living someone else's life"

A few months after he said those words to me, he married the girl.

[Albatross]

People project self in universe consciously and subconsciously, means in other people too.

I don't know if I'm helping or making this more confusing but reading Albratross's post reminded me of things the Leaver has said over the years, which seems to me show his progress through the tunnel, even though it's oh so slow....

Early days....  "WE" are on a different page.  "WE" need space

About a year later, in the end stages of the divorce.  "YOU' are really good at
making "ME" feel guilty.  YOU are making everyone hate ME.  (people I never met) 

A year after that in a rare phone call ( We hadn't talked in about a year)
"You need to learn to accept that I have changed.  I'm a different person now"
*** Classic projection, how would he know how I feel?  We hadn't spoken in a year**

A few months ago....

"I look in the mirror every single fire-trucking morning, I  think of you and the life we use to have, sometimes I actually get physically sick.  I feel like I'm living someone else's life"

A few months after he said those words to me, he married the girl.

Sure. Instead he get a grip and own personal misery, he projecting own misery in you. Pure blame. He demonize you still. But I see there also little bit of good. You are so important to him that he convincing self that you do not love him because how he feel, in case that you love him he would not feel miserable. What that's means is that when he eventually wake up and sort out own $h!te he will desperately want you ! You lucky thing
It is very similar with my W.

[Helpingme!]

Al,
Your words are so true. My wife mentioned awhile back if i thought somebody cd be possessed by something, i think she was referring to the devil. I said sure, i think its possible.

She said sometimes she feels something inside her has ahold of her and it is too strong to fight back. She said she eished she cd just beat it and be ok but i cant. I had no answer. Crazy $h!te, makes me want to grab her and shake it out of her, but i cant.

[Not Applicable]

But what I was never managed to understand, and no one here or eleswhere as ever had a good enough answer, is how adding more problems/issues is going to make it less heavy for the MLCer and easier to solve any pre-existing issues. The consensus is that it makes it harder for them to solve whatever problems there may be. If so, then, MLC really brings not benefit. At least not on the issues level.

Strangely enough, I read an interview the other day with an American actor who had a very abusive childhood that I think answers your question. He's been messed up all his life. But he said something in this interview that struck me, at least as an explanation for some of the MLCer's behavior. He talked about how he was about to go on the air and do this skit imitating a famous politician. He suddenly could not remember what he looked like, or what he sounded like, as he was having a flashback to his childhood that occupied his mind. So he cut himself, as he had a habit of doing. He explained the reason as it created a problem that was easier to solve than the stuff going on in his head. He had to wrap up the cut and bandage it. But this made him forget what was going on in his head, which he COULDN'T solve.

My husband spends an inordinate amount of time creating problematic situations over very minor things. He imagines many problems that don't simply exist and then goes about solving them. For example, I have a huge brand new fridge I got two years ago. I shared it with MIL. We had no problems sharing the fridge. One day, H got it in his head we were having problems between us about the fridge even though we weren't, so he brought home her old  fridge that he had been using in his clinic, so she could have her own fridge and I have my own. That's when the problems started between her and I about the fridge. Where should we put this, where should we put that? But imagining there is a problem between your wife and mother over a fridge might be an easier problem to deal with than whatever is in your head.

So maybe the issues that they create serve a purpose to distract them from the more painful pre-existing issues.

And perhaps that is why detaching from their drama is said to be effective. Because at that point, they have no reason to focus on their self-created issues and the space in their brain left is filled with the issues they want to ignore.