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Poll

Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)

Denial (shock, confusion)
1 (1.7%)
Bargaining (trying to figure out why, planning, adjusting)
1 (1.7%)
Anger (fear, resentment)
3 (5.1%)
Depression (despair, exhaustion)
13 (22%)
Acceptance (detachment, calm, control)
33 (55.9%)
Renewal
8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: October 27, 2017, 04:41:15 AM

Author Topic: Discussion LBS Stages

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Discussion Re: LBS Stages
#60: October 04, 2017, 06:58:08 AM
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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Re: LBS Stages
#61: October 04, 2017, 03:45:32 PM
Thank you for your reply, Help. Maybe it is a relief for a MLCer (or any other type of cheating spouse) to be found/discoved.

I don't think it is a question of ego, it is more of a fact. How could they gave done what they did? Ego or not, the truth is what MLCers did is beyond wrong and tryly hurt their spouse. And the damages caused by the MLCer to their LBS are real. Entitlement? None of us, or anyone else in the same situation, deserved this.

... maybe my MLC H is 'right' that leaving me was the best thing for him?

For him? Yes, maybe. Who knows? But a marriage is not one person's wants and one person being more or have the right to hurt the other and do as they please, a marriage is a commitment and a partnership. It is loyalty and be there for the other. Thingh the MLCer completely broke.

But how much of my pain has been about Me and what I think I deserve?

I have no idea. Are you trying to say you think you deserved what happened and that you think you shouldn't had been hurt the way you were? If so, that is very weird.

MLCers are 100% responsible for the chaos, hurt and pain their actions caused. There is no such thing as letting them off the off of accountability for what they did.

It is up to us to overcome the pain and hurt caused by them, but the matters are separated issues.
 


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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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Re: LBS Stages
#62: October 05, 2017, 05:53:15 AM
Bit more food for LBS thought?
What are the stages of the loss process-
 
A loss experience involves the following five stages of emotional response:  (1) denial,  (2) bargaining,  (3) anger,  (4) despair, (5) acceptance.
 
-.    These five stages can occur in either the sequence presented or in any variety of sequence.
-.    The stages can recur during a loss experience.
-.    One stage can last a long time, uninterrupted.
-.    The loss process can last anywhere from three months to three years.
-.    These stages of grief are normal and are to be expected.
-.    It is healthier to accept these stages and recognize them for what they are rather than to fight them off or to ignore them.
-.    Working out each stage of the loss response ensures a return to emotional health and adaptive functioning.
-.    Getting outside support and help during the grieving process will assist in gaining objectivity and understanding.
 
Stage 1.     Denial
 
-.    We deny that the loss has occurred.
-.    We ignore the signs of the loss.
-.    We begin to use:
 
1.   Magical thinking
By magic this loss will go away.
 
2.   Excessive fantasy
Nothing is wrong; this loss is just imagined; when I wake up everything will be OK.
 
3.   Regression
We feel childlike and want others to reassure us that nothing is wrong.
 
4.   Withdrawal
We avoid facing the loss and avoid those people who confront us with the truth.
 
5.   Rejection
We reject the truth and those who bring us the news of our loss.
 
Stage 2.     Bargaining
 
-.    We bargain or strike a deal with God, ourselves, or others to make the loss go away.
-.    We promise to do anything to make this loss go away.
-.    We agree to take extreme measures in order to make this loss disappear.
-.    We lack confidence in our attempts to deal with the loss, looking elsewhere for answers.
-.    We begin to:
 
1.   Shop around
We look for the ``right'' agent with the ``cure'' for our loss.
 
2.   Gamble
We begin to take chances on ``cures'' for our loss.
 
3.   Take risks
We put ourselves in jeopardy financially, emotionally, and physically to get to an answer or ``cure'' for our loss.
 
4.   Sacrifice
In our pursuit of a ``cure'' to change the loss we ignore our real needs.
 
Stage 3.     Anger
 

-.    We become angry with God, with ourselves, or with others over our loss.
-.    We become outraged and incensed over the steps that must be taken to overcome our loss.
-.    We pick out ``scapegoats'' on which to vent our anger, e.g., the doctors, hospitals, clerks, helping agencies, rehabilitation specialists, etc.
-.    We begin to use:
 
1.   Self-blaming
We blame ourselves for this loss.
 
2.   Switching blame
We blame others for this loss.
 
3.   Blaming the victim
We blame the victim for leaving us.
 
4.   Aggressive anger
We vent our blame and rage aggressively on the closest target.
 
5.   Resentment
Our hurt and pain turns into resentment toward involved in our loss event including the victim.
 
-.    Anger is a normal stage. It must be expressed and resolved; if it is suppressed and held in, it will become ``Anger in'' leading to a maladaptive condition of depression that drains our emotional energy.
 
Stage 4.     Despair
 
-.    We become overwhelmed by the anguish, pain, and hurt of our loss; we are thrown into the depths of our emotional response.
-.    We can begin to have uncontrollable spells of crying, sobbing, and weeping.
-.    We can begin to go into spells of deep silence, morose thinking, and deep melancholy.
-.    We can begin to experience:
 
1.   Guilt
We feel responsible for our loss.
 
2.   Remorse
We feel sorry for our real or perceived ``bad past,'' deeds for which this loss is some form of retribution or punishment.
 
3.   Loss of hope
The news of our loss becomes so overwhelming that we lose all hope of being able to return to the calm and order our life held prior to the loss.
 
4.   Loss of faith and trust
This loss can make us lose and trust our belief in the goodness and mercy of God and mankind.
 
-.    We need support to assist us in gaining the objectivity to reframe and regroup our lives. If we are not able to work through our despair, we risk experiencing events such as mental illness,  divorce/separation, suicide, inability to cope with the aftermath of our loss, rejection of the family member who has experienced the loss, and detachment, poor bonding, or unhealthy interaction with the parties involved in our loss.
 
Stage 5.     Acceptance
 

-.    We begin to reach a level of awareness and understanding of the nature of our loss.
-.    We can now:
   -.       describe the terms and conditions involved in our loss.
   -.       fully describe the risks and limitations involved in the treatment or rehabilitation for the loss involved.
   -.       cope with our loss.
   -.       test the concepts and alternatives available to us in dealing with this loss.
   -.       handle the information surrounding this loss  in a more appropriate way.
-.    We begin to use:
-    rational thinking
We are able to refute our irrational beliefs or fantasy thinking in order to address our loss from a rational perspective.
 
-    adaptive behavior
We begin to adjust our lives to incorporate the changes necessary after our loss.
 
-    appropriate emotion
We begin to express our emotional responses freely and are better able to verbalize the pain, hurt, and suffering we have experienced.
 
-    patience and self-understanding
We recognize that it takes time to adjust to the loss and give ourselves time to ``deal'' with it. We set a realistic time frame in which to learn to cope with our changed lives.
 
-    self-confidence
As we begin to sort things out and recognize the stages of loss as natural and expected, we gain the confidence needed for personal growth.
-.    We can be growing in acceptance and still experience denial, bargaining, anger, and despair.
-.    To come to full acceptance we need support to gain objectivity and clarity of thinking. It is often useful to gain such assistance from those who have experienced a similar loss. For example, groups of parents who have experienced the death of a child or who have had a child with a developmental disability.
-.    Peer support from strangers is often the best way for a person to deal with the grieving process.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: LBS Stages
#63: October 06, 2017, 08:39:29 PM
I've been musing on what we feel we need at each stage, that desperate searching feeling that often we share here.

Denial - what will make this all go away?
Bargaining - what is this and how can I stop/fix my MLCer?
Anger - is it my fault, MLC vs are they just a horrible person?
Despair - how can I survive this?
Acceptance - how can I live with it?
Renewal - what should I do now?
 
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: LBS Stages
#64: October 06, 2017, 11:29:43 PM
Attaching. X
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Re: LBS Stages
#65: October 07, 2017, 05:16:06 AM
T, that points are right on the mark! I have been though all those questions. I am definitely at how do I live with it. I am praying my move with help me get to what do I do next with enthusiasm!!!!
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BD 12/15 moved out-in replay, vanisher, MOW in Atlanta
D 2/17

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Re: LBS Stages
#66: October 07, 2017, 05:25:37 AM
Just to point out that this topic has been a sticky for some time and there are loads of really good information on the previous threads which I started a couple of years ago and OP started the 4th thread from which this pasted info arises.  It might be helpful to merge this thread with the 4th to avoid too much duplication and confusion.

Quote
New thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8078.msg620074#new

Previous threads

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2625.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5734.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5789.0

From Stayed
I thought I would add the stages of grief that we all go through with a relationship breakup.

1. Shock: "What the hell just happened?"

2. Denial: "This is so not happening."

3. Isolation: "I just want to sit in this all by myself."

4. Anger: "I hate you for breaking my heart!"

5. Bargaining: "What will it take to get him/her back?"

6. Depression: "I will never get over him/her."

7. Acceptance: "I understand why I was with him/her, why I'm not now, and that I will be better than just OK."

Some keep it a bit simpler:

1.  Denial

2.  Anger

3.  Bargaining

4.  Depression

5.  Acceptance
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Reconnection started 2017.
Separated 2022 (my choice because he wanted to live alone) and yet fully reconnected seeing each other often.

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Re: LBS Stages
#67: October 07, 2017, 05:54:08 AM
It might be helpful to merge this thread with the 4th to avoid too much duplication and confusion.
I agree  - I will do it when the poll expires.
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Re: LBS Stages
#68: October 07, 2017, 11:23:46 PM
Good idea. I guess I just wanted to raise the profile of thinking about us generally as LBS - which we can control more - as opposed to the understandable focus on MLC
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: LBS Stages
#69: October 07, 2017, 11:58:20 PM

But how much of my pain has been about Me and what I think I deserve?

I have no idea. Are you trying to say you think you deserved what happened and that you think you shouldn't had been hurt the way you were? If so, that is very weird.

MLCers are 100% responsible for the chaos, hurt and pain their actions caused. There is no such thing as letting them off the off of accountability for what they did.

It is up to us to overcome the pain and hurt caused by them, but the matters are separated issues.

I think what I was trying to say is that part of the pain is also about my beliefs and expectations of what 'should' be happening in my life. That there is a temptation to blame the MLC spouse (and understandably easy to do!) but I have a funny uncomfortable feeling that it also sucks me towards that rescuer/persecutor/victim triangle too. Do I think I did anything as a human to 'deserve' some of what has happened? No, of course not. But I do think stuff happens to us which isn't because of us too.

Part of the tension between LBS & MLC is about ego though and who is 'right' maybe. I couldn't see that at all until recently because I just wanted certain outcomes - my H well, my life back, no more pain. Meanwhile I guess my STBXH has/had a list of his own wants too. Detachment is perhaps also about accepting that (as crazily as they handle it) the MLCs sense of being 'right' butts heads against the LBS's sense of being 'right' too.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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