[HeartsBlessing]

He came up before and put his arms around me and said sorry... i said I hate the way you spin it around to be about you, that is unfair and disrespectful, he said sorry again  . He said i am going to work to get some money, i said to pay your rent, he said to get 2 tyres, I said to pay your rent, he said to pay my radio settle, I said to pay your rent ( you get the picture Ha) then he said yes to pay my rent...so i said so where is the commitment to our R when you are still paying for that, he went quiet... kissed me and said I'll ring you later... food for thought maybe 

Seeds for later growth..you KNOW when they're finished running; because they contain it to the house, instead of leaving the house.

I know that probably didn't make any sense at all; but I saw my husband do this; deep within Replay; he would pick fights to leave the house...later in the crisis, as he navigated Withdrawal, and such; he would leave the room when we had a disagreement; that was a change from leaving the house beforehand..that also told me he was finishing the running away; and when we had that big fight where my boundaries were set; he threw a tantrum; and the fight lasted for three days; that third day, he left the bedroom and slept on the couch for the one night.

I had stood my ground with him firmly for all that time; pushing him hard; and he saw there was NO getting past me on anything; nor was there any backing me down; the morning after, he did a 180; and started straightening out in a good way....but there was still a long way to go; later, he broke Withdrawal; went over into Acceptance; and we walked the long, hard road to reconciliation.  As the whole of the damage was shown to him; he simply wanted it all to just go away; but that wasn't going to happen; but his running days were completely over; as he stopped leaving the room; and staying in the discussion with me on things he clearly did not want to face within himself.

I always knew when the time was right; my intuition was clear; and I KNEW him well; I was THERE; I observed him; sometimes like a rat in a laboratory; the wife always knows; whether the husband wants her to, or not. 


On the other hand, I detect no real concern, no real sincerity in the "sorries" he's giving you; he thinks if he says "sorry" you'll go on and forget it; and it won't come up again; but he's wrong about that; as he keeps trying to avoid; you'll keep bringing it up, as evidenced in the last part of your post; he finally told the truth; after evading and avoiding.

That, too, in itself, IS disrespectful; because the money he's spending on his getaway, is money you can use for other things; helping to pay bills is one of those things.

I know, I'm not cutting him any breaks at all; I'm not seeing any real movement here; and that is NOT your fault; it is HIM, not you.

His actions are going to have to step up and become sincere, before you will trust that he's serious about reconciling the marriage.

Right now; like I said, he wants it all to just go away; and he doesn't want to face that he's damaged you in the process of his running away to find himself..and he ain't been found, yet! 
 
Hang in there Hyperglad; you're doing fine. 

[BonBon]

Hyperglad,
I'm experiencing similiar things though my H never physically left.

In fact, I'm quoting Patience below:

He's darn good with the words and even a bit empathetic, but I will tell you even though he asks the questions about my feelings and really tries he's still not done yet.  He gives me plenty of hugs and physical affection, but he has not yet completely empathized with me.  I've heard a few "sorries," but I know he's not finished.  I need to see more deeds if that makes sense.  I'll know when the reconnection is complete.  It's not yet.  There is too much unfinished business, and I am taking it slowly.  He's not yet fully faced the damage.  I don't want to scare the squirrel completely.

I could have written this myself even though my H has (I think) withdrawn his feet from replay water but is still dangling one piggy toe in it, albeit barely.

I can't add much except to say this is really, really hard to deal with.

I think through all of the MLC that I have seen so far, the absolute lack of empathy (which was previously one of my husband's strong suites) is appalling. 

Now I think my H is capable of empathy where he was not for a few years...but I also feel he knows if he feels empathy, that's going to open up a whole lot of pain he is not ready to face.

Hang in!

[HeartsBlessing]

Now I think my H is capable of empathy where he was not for a few years...but I also feel he knows if he feels empathy, that's going to open up a whole lot of pain he is not ready to face.

Bon, he's not at the point of being able to face himself, just yet; whereas Hyperglad's husband is farther along than your husband is.

Your husband is trying to reconnect for the moment; and it will be more time down the road before he is strong enough emotionally to face what he's done; whereas Hyperglad's husband is strong enough and more able; but not willing at this point.

There is a fragility coming out of Replay; where the MLC'er is being pushed toward Depression; and they need all the strength they can get to face this deep pit of the crisis.

I feel that Hyperglad's husband is past his Depression Stage.  He suffered it in tandem with OW Withdrawal..and is now at the tail end of Withdrawal; but unwilling to cross over into Acceptance.

There's a huge difference between your husband and Hyperglad's...and it's reflected in where they are, from what I can see, in being familiar with the stages; and based on your descriptions; yours and Hyperglad's.

IF Hyperglad's husband was fresh out of Replay; going through Depression/OW Withdrawal; I would not, and have not advised pushing him....he was not strong enough at that time to take the pushing; he was running away physically, as well as emotionally.

Anyway; I'm counseling digging deep within for patience for you at the moment; your husband is not there, just yet; but he will be, in time.

[BonBon]

Hi HB,
Yes, I read this thread with interest but figured my H was not this far along due to youre previous examples and since I still see tiny replays and no major depression or withdrawal.  I was surprised to see any empathy at all in my H in recent months as it had been SO absent for these last few years.  As I said, that (lack of empathy) was the thing that really stuck in my craw thoughout this though I know it's all part and parcel of the MLC.

I so appreciate the difference that you illustrated as to when to push and when not.

Since you can't see me, I will tell you that I'm tucking my hair up under my patience cap and pulling it tight down over my ears.  And then I pray a big and bad gust of wind (ie:  my own menopausal chemical insanity) doesn't knock my cap off.  Promises to put forth amazing effort on my patience!   

Here's to the long view! 

Thanks HB!

Bon

[hyperglad]

HB this is so right. I have always pushed throughout this, just me i guess and H would physically run, now although threatening to run again, so far he has stayed put , signally a shift in his position. I know my H well and to face what he has done is so abhorrent to everything he has stood for I know he will fight long and hard before he faces it it, but face it he will or we will not be together. I do not want to be one of those wives who has to go through this crap again in 5, 10 or 15 yrs time, if we make it we make it for good.

On the other site i sometimes frequent I know there are spouses who have given passes and who are still together but i cant say (subjective I know) they are truly happy or ever will be.

BonBon my h has had moments of empathy throughout but as you rightly point out no where near the same as before all this. My H has sobbed , begged, pleaded, been cold, dispassionate, heartless all within days, weird behaviour and not that of someone who is thinking straight. I say to my H I know you are hurting but put yourself in my place, how do you think I feel, he says I can only imagine and I know I am the one who has put you there.

As you may know we have been having a rough couple of days, I triggered before, everytime we have come back from a holiday he has made contact with OW again. He is at work and I got that awful feeling in my stomach again as if something was wrong I felt he was with her. I called him, he was talking with work colleagues I could hear them, I accused him of making contact with her, I thought he would give his usual what are you going on about now speech. He called me back when he was alone and  I explained my trigger and he apologised for making me feel this way, he said I am so sorry for doing this to you, I wont hurt you like that ever again, I thanked him and said sorry for accusing him (given there was nothing even to go on  ) he said you have nothing to apologise for I shouldn't have done what I did and you wouldn't feel that way, progress maybe 

[BonBon]

Hyperglad,
I should say that is certainly progress!

For him to ackowledge it's his fault you don't trust him is pretty big.
My H ackowledged that recently too.  That's where I'm seeing understanding and empathy.  It sounds to me like your H was being honest...doesn't sound like OW was a factor.   

I too have a hard time not pushing...but I'm getting better and better and I know it's in my best interest (can I say that right now, I don't care what's in his best interest truth be told?) 

[hyperglad]

BonBon my H is still walking around like I have stabbed him in the back so i have pressed the ignore button, not sure how much more I can take though TBH I just want to say for gods sake you were the one who cheated get a grip , but I know it doesn't work like that

[BonBon]

Hyperglad,
No, does not work like that unfortunately.
They have no grip to get.   
Remember, it's all about them...ALL about them.

UGH.
Sympathies,
Bon