Author Topic: My Story HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE  (Read 2141 times)

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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My Story HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« on: January 09, 2018, 03:53:02 PM »
This is my story: My husband asked me if I would buy him clothes like I buy our son (Ralph Lauren).  I started purchasing in July 2015 and didn't think anything of it.  Was this the start of his MLC?  In March of 2016 I showed my husband a billboard a friend purchased for his spouse's 50th birthday. He made it clear that he would be mad if I did that or even had a party for him.  In August of 2016 he started exercising, running and taking a lot of vitamins.  September 2016 he told me he was not happy with his life (and us) expected to be farther in life.  We talked about purchasing a new home and he had wanted to buy a "toy" (vehicle).  We started spending more time with each other going to concerts, out for dinner and just doing everything together.  We laughed everyday and our sex life increased. I though life was great.  I did notice changes in him, not shaving, dressing casual, exercising, lightened his hair during the summer, lost weight, changed to country music, changed eating habits, and he said he cant sleep anymore. (We tried many things to get him to sleep but it did not improve.) I also look back at red flags that I was unsure what was going on- now I know.  September 2017 "he cares for me but is not in love with me."  I was devastated!  I fell in love all over again and he was my best friend!  How could this happen and I not have a clue.  He moved out the same day.  We went to counseling but I stopped that after 6 sessions as she was not helping but giving him approval to go get a divorce.  He agreed he would wait till after the holidays.  As of today, he has not said anymore and I keep buying time. 

Since moving out he would go to the bar every Friday night and on Dec 17 he told my daughter he has stopped drinking.  I notice that he goes out but it has decreased.  She also told him his use of twitter is unappropriated - he stopped using that too.  Still has Instagram and snapchat which he got since in MLC.  He is not having an affair, but I did notice an increase in viewing exercising women half clothed on social media.

I do not contact him unless it is necessary, He acknowledged that I am giving him space.  He told me before our separation that I was not happy with myself- he was right.   I have lost 40 lbs since Sept 2017 and am feeling great about myself.  I am not MAD at him because I understand he is gong through a tough time.  I am hurt and scared but I keep with a positive attitude and take care of me and the kids who both live at home.

My husband lost his father 8 years ago and I don't think he has dealt with this.  Last year the song "My Old Man" by the Zac Brown Band came out and whenever that came on the radio he would turn it off.  On November 2017 I purchased ornaments for a memory tree in memory of his dad and he said it was a sad event.  How can I help him with this?  My husband went to visit his mother for Christmas 2017 since he had not spent time with her on Christmas since his dad's death.  (She spends time in the winter in California)  He had been talking about this for over a year and I didn't like the idea but when he told me in October he was doing this I told him "Good for you, you have been wanting to do this"  I don't think that was the reply he was expecting.  Before he flew out that day he brought the mail tome at my work.  This is the first time stopping at my work since he moved out.  He has to drive past our home for him to go to his mom's house (where he is living) and usually drops off the mail then.  My work was out of his way.  I feel he needed to see me before he flew out.  Was this a touch and go?

He returned from California on December 27th and has been coming around more.  Since moving out he has brought food to the house, dinner, baked goods, - he loves to cook and I have see that increase. He is always pleasant with me using thank you.  I have caught him in lies but just ignore them.  I compliment him when given a chance to.  What else should I be doing or not doing?

Where do you think he is on the stages?  Could he be on the end of replay? Has he been in Replay since August of 2016?  Why can he on some days have eye contact with me and other days none?

I appreciate any help so I can continue to move forward and do what is best for all of us.  I love this man and will keep standing!


Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 04:01:23 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

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Offline Anjae

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 04:48:09 PM »
Hi and welcome, Hope.

My husband asked me if I would buy him clothes like I buy our son (Ralph Lauren).  I started purchasing in July 2015 and didn't think anything of it.  Was this the start of his MLC?

It could had been. Even if, usually, a crisis starts before we see any signs of it.

Could he be on the end of replay? Has he been in Replay since August of 2016?  Why can he on some days have eye contact with me and other days none?

It is hard to know since when has your husband been in Replay. If he asked you to buy him clothes like your son's ones Summer 2015, it is more likely that was already Replay.

Your husband could be nearing the end of Replay, or it could be just a out of fog phase. It will only be possible to know in hindsight.

The change in eye contact may be connected with the depression that comes with MLC.

I think you have been doing everything right and that there may not be much more you can do.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Gigielle

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 04:55:44 PM »
Hope,

I'm so sorry you're here.  BUT. If you are forced to be going through this, this forum is the place you want to be.  It has helped with my sanity time and time again. 

There's a lot about your story that reminds me of mine- they are different, but have similar traits. As far as where your husband is in this crisis, I have found that I really can't tell for sure until I look back a month or so AFTER a stage has ended, and another has begun, and even then, they kind of melt into one another, so you'll still see fragments of a past stage in the current stage (this has been my personal experience, not sure that it rings true for anyone else)... Replay is the LONGEST of all the stages.

  I have found that journaling the crisis every day has helped me kind of make my own "road map" my H's journey.  Because we have to put our emotions on hold, I tend to keep my journaling very factual and dated.  List the things he does/says/acts, etc., to use as a reference point. 

I keep a separate personal journal with emotions.  So basically, one is for my own "research" and one is to address my feelings.  That's probably overkill, but I also print out every article I read that has pertinent information, highlight & make notes and document everything... but I'm a psychobabble nerd. ;)  I have found for me at least, a natural control freak, that it has helped me to not only know how to deal with the current stage, but to be prepared as to what may come. 

Again, so sorry that you're here, but honestly, you couldn't have landed in a better place.  You'll be well taken care of.

Gigi

M: 42
H: 41
D: 17 S: 16 - both ours
Married 09.19.98 (19 years)
DB #1: 08.18.17-EA (ended)
DB #2: 09.23.17-ILYBNILWY
Still at Home-Never Left

My Previous Thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9452.0

*"This is the year I will be stronger, braver, kinder, unstoppable and this year, I will be fierce."

*The pain that you've been feeling, can't compare to the joy that's coming." -Romans 8.18

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 06:49:41 PM »
Gigi-

I also keep a list of factual items dates and what happened that day.  I am usually a person of control and I have been just going with the flow; releasing all control and trying not to have expectations- that is hard!

So is my husband having a mild case of MLC since he isn't having an affair, isn't spewing at me.....?  If so, does that help with the reconciliation, if he chooses?

Thanks for the support!

Offline iwantoffthisrids

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 06:53:46 PM »
This is my story: My husband asked me if I would buy him clothes like I buy our son (Ralph Lauren).  I started purchasing in July 2015 and didn't think anything of it.  Was this the start of his MLC?  In March of 2016 I showed my husband a billboard a friend purchased for his spouse's 50th birthday. He made it clear that he would be mad if I did that or even had a party for him.  In August of 2016 he started exercising, running and taking a lot of vitamins.  September 2016 he told me he was not happy with his life (and us) expected to be farther in life.  We talked about purchasing a new home and he had wanted to buy a "toy" (vehicle).  We started spending more time with each other going to concerts, out for dinner and just doing everything together.  We laughed everyday and our sex life increased. I though life was great.  I did notice changes in him, not shaving, dressing casual, exercising, lightened his hair during the summer, lost weight, changed to country music, changed eating habits, and he said he cant sleep anymore. (We tried many things to get him to sleep but it did not improve.) I also look back at red flags that I was unsure what was going on- now I know.  September 2017 "he cares for me but is not in love with me."  I was devastated!  I fell in love all over again and he was my best friend!  How could this happen and I not have a clue.  He moved out the same day.  We went to counseling but I stopped that after 6 sessions as she was not helping but giving him approval to go get a divorce.  He agreed he would wait till after the holidays.  As of today, he has not said anymore and I keep buying time. 

Since moving out he would go to the bar every Friday night and on Dec 17 he told my daughter he has stopped drinking.  I notice that he goes out but it has decreased.  She also told him his use of twitter is unappropriated - he stopped using that too.  Still has Instagram and snapchat which he got since in MLC.  He is not having an affair, but I did notice an increase in viewing exercising women half clothed on social media.

I do not contact him unless it is necessary, He acknowledged that I am giving him space.  He told me before our separation that I was not happy with myself- he was right.   I have lost 40 lbs since Sept 2017 and am feeling great about myself.  I am not MAD at him because I understand he is gong through a tough time.  I am hurt and scared but I keep with a positive attitude and take care of me and the kids who both live at home.

My husband lost his father 8 years ago and I don't think he has dealt with this.  Last year the song "My Old Man" by the Zac Brown Band came out and whenever that came on the radio he would turn it off.  On November 2017 I purchased ornaments for a memory tree in memory of his dad and he said it was a sad event.  How can I help him with this?  My husband went to visit his mother for Christmas 2017 since he had not spent time with her on Christmas since his dad's death.  (She spends time in the winter in California)  He had been talking about this for over a year and I didn't like the idea but when he told me in October he was doing this I told him "Good for you, you have been wanting to do this"  I don't think that was the reply he was expecting.  Before he flew out that day he brought the mail tome at my work.  This is the first time stopping at my work since he moved out.  He has to drive past our home for him to go to his mom's house (where he is living) and usually drops off the mail then.  My work was out of his way.  I feel he needed to see me before he flew out.  Was this a touch and go?

He returned from California on December 27th and has been coming around more.  Since moving out he has brought food to the house, dinner, baked goods, - he loves to cook and I have see that increase. He is always pleasant with me using thank you.  I have caught him in lies but just ignore them.  I compliment him when given a chance to.  What else should I be doing or not doing?

Where do you think he is on the stages?  Could he be on the end of replay? Has he been in Replay since August of 2016?  Why can he on some days have eye contact with me and other days none?

I appreciate any help so I can continue to move forward and do what is best for all of us.  I love this man and will keep standing!

Yep and yep. The tight clothes working out tanning sun-in on hair Snapchat what's app women are eye-firetrucking him. The list is endless. I don't know how or when this will end. It is so so ugly and unpredictable. It's like he has a split personality. It is sad and maddening and life will never be the same.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 07:06:14 PM »
Thank you for the post.  Have others had a spouse in MLC that is not acting out at their LBS?  You stated he could have been in replay in 2015 would I have seen more of a drastic change or do they start replay out slow and then make a lot of changes at once?

On New Years Eve we ended up at the same concert.  I hung out with the ladies from his group and just gave him his space that evening.  He saw me out dancing and having a great time,  Normally, I would not have gone out dancing more reserved and self conscious.  I felt great that night and didn't think twice about what anyone thought of me :)  I am almost positive I caught him watching me having fun.  When I was going to leave after 12:30 am I put my hand on his shoulder and said Happy New Year.  He said HNY and be safe.  I said I am heading home thanks! Did I do this right?  I have another event coming up that we will both be at and want to make sure I handle myself right.

On January 1, 2018 he told me I needed to sweep the water out of the garage from the snow, he went out and did it for me.  Is this another touch n go?

My husband speaks with my D23 a lot.  Will he withdraw from her?  I cant see him doing that.

What about my husband giving my daughter money to buy me a birthday gift end November and again for Christmas.  Does he still care or is it from guilt?

Thanks!

« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 07:19:56 PM by hope2018 »

Offline Gigielle

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 05:08:11 AM »
Gigi-

I also keep a list of factual items dates and what happened that day.  I am usually a person of control and I have been just going with the flow; releasing all control and trying not to have expectations- that is hard!

So is my husband having a mild case of MLC since he isn't having an affair, isn't spewing at me.....?  If so, does that help with the reconciliation, if he chooses?

Thanks for the support!

It is totally hard!  I've had to let go of the control of mine as well- harder as he has never left the home, so I see him every single day.  I'm going to private message you.  We live in neighboring states! I'm in Missouri. 
M: 42
H: 41
D: 17 S: 16 - both ours
Married 09.19.98 (19 years)
DB #1: 08.18.17-EA (ended)
DB #2: 09.23.17-ILYBNILWY
Still at Home-Never Left

My Previous Thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9452.0

*"This is the year I will be stronger, braver, kinder, unstoppable and this year, I will be fierce."

*The pain that you've been feeling, can't compare to the joy that's coming." -Romans 8.18

Online Thunder

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 05:55:48 AM »
Welcome Hope,

I just want to say, there is no mild case of MLC.  There are just different types.

My was very mild compared to others, no Monstering and was quite decent to me, but he was still in his own little world.  He just kind of checked out emotionally.
These are called Low-Energy MLCer's.  They can have just as much chaos and confusion as the High Energy MLCers, but they don't act out as much.

I don't think his starting to wear different clothes was replay.  They all start changing months and months before their crisis really starts and they go into replay.
Replay can last 2 years or more, so I don't think he is coming out of it, I'm sorry.

Try not to stage watch.  It's hard I know, we all did it.  Just accept he is in a crisis and only he can fix himself.
He'll come out of this when he comes out of this.

Just do what ever to need to, to get your focus off him and on to you.
Do things that make you happy.  See your friends and spend time with your family.  He'll be MIA for awhile.
Maybe find things you have been putting off doing.  A trip, or join a club/group.  Go out dancing.  What ever you like to do.  It won't make a bit of difference with his crisis, so you may as well enjoy this time you have.

I'm sorry you have to go through this.  It's the hardest thing, I think, any of us have had to go through.
Even losing my parents didn't compare to the pain. 

Take good care of Hope. 
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 06:02:26 AM »
Replay can last 2 years or more, so I don't think he is coming out of it, I'm sorry.
I totally agree with Thunder and just want to add - read 2 years or more, could mean he never comes out of it.
2 years is not a guarantee just more of a minimum.

With Low energy my thoughts are that replay is not as crazy but the TIME factor is longer as it takes longer to work through the crisis, again no guarantees.

Online Thunder

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 06:33:24 AM »
That could be very true, OP.  I think it's maybe because the High Energy type live their fantasy and maybe burn through it faster.  IDK

These Wallowers move at a snails pace and their fantasy life is more in their head.  A fantasy can last a long time.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 06:53:57 AM »
I think it's maybe because the High Energy type live their fantasy and maybe burn through it faster.

These Wallowers move at a snails pace and their fantasy life is more in their head. 
A fantasy can last a long time.
I absolutely agree

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 09:02:12 AM »
Looking at the replay stage, for you agree it started in Aug 2016- 17 months ago ?   So do low energy- wallflowers have a harder time letting go ? I am hoping that is the case!

Online Thunder

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 09:17:53 AM »
Yes September 2016 sounds like that was his bd, when he said he was no longer happy.

I'm sorry, but no I think Wallowers have an easier time because they emotionally check out.  They don't care to cling.  I think he could have cared less about me.

Hope, no one has all the answers.  I would just say right now he appears to be in replay.
Mine was in that state of mind for close to 3 years...and even then improvements were s l o w.

Only time will tell how long your H's crisis will last.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 09:50:01 AM »
Sorry to say - my wife has been in crisis for almost 10 years.
And other than me being divorced I can't tell there is any difference.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:19 AM »
Just got a call he wants to talk about moving forward. This is not good. What do I say/do? He is coming over tonight??

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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HELP MY HUSBAND CALLED AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD-D
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 11:45:18 AM »
I am assuming divorce. He called me at work to see if we could talk tonight. He was upbeat and has been nice to me. Is he just setting me up for this talk to make it easy on himself ? Why would he be in a good mood! What do I say?  He moved out 3 mos ago has been in replay I think 17 mos. No affair- low energy MLC.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:54:03 AM by hope2018 »

Offline Lastresort

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Re: HELP MY HUSBAND CALLED AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD-D
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 11:56:14 AM »
Hard to say why they are up beat at times.   I wouldn't assume anytjingnjust prepare for the worst.    If he wants a D then their are things that you can do.    Also remember if it is a MLC they could want a D today and a marriage tomorrow.   Some of them  flip flop a lot.    I say talk and hear what he has to say. 

Offline Velika

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Re: HELP MY HUSBAND CALLED AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD-D
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2018, 12:06:48 PM »
Hope, I am someone who didn't want a divorce initially and now wish I had immediately filed for divorce.

Please, do not fear divorce. Divorce, if it happens, protects you financially.

The best thing you can do right now is to empower yourself with expert advice and support, as well as moral support from family and friends, and especially a very close friend or family member who can help you should you need to seek and retain legal counsel and advocate for yourself.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that being nice and agreeable will persuade your former husband to "wake up." This does not mean you need to be vicious or combative; it just means that a legal process must go through your attorney. Hire a fair but strong attorney who will advocate for you. Let this attorney field all inquiries and motions your husband wants to submit. Take yourself out of the equation and go very low contact if he does file.

I found that my former husband became predictably and suspiciously nice when he was about to drop a bomb on me or attempt to deceive me or try to get information from me. While this may not be everyone's experience, I would be cautious if I were you.

To this end, consider not meeting with him. If he wants to file for divorce, he will. However, I strongly encourage YOU to file for a legal separation if you haven't already, regardless of what he does or doesn't do. This will safeguard your finances and offer you some peace of mind.

Best of luck and big hug.

Online Tyks

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Re: HELP MY HUSBAND CALLED AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD-D
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2018, 12:36:34 PM »
Hope, what do you want?
Me 48
Him 48
22 years together - Married 20
BD1 - August 26, 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD 2 - August 28, 2016 - OW discovered EA - Kicked him out
D15 D18
April 2017 - Legal Separation Agreement
August 2017 - I filed for divorce
Divorce final February 12 2018

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8823.0

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9005.0

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9120.0

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9279.0

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9649.msg635725#msg635725

Online 1trouble

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Re: HELP MY HUSBAND CALLED AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD-D
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »
Ok Hope

Firstly I am presuming you mean divorce and if that's right then this is my advice.

I know you are frightened but don't be ......because this is script

a lot of people in mlc see it as the answer for their unhappiness

you see when they start to feel unhappy with themselves its usually when they are at home so they associate the home and their marriage as being the problem....it isn't.....its them....but it takes a long time for them to reach that conclusion


so in your H's head he thinks if he gets rid of his marriage he gets rid of the depressed low horrible feelings he has

What you have to do is remain calm, I know that's a BIG ask but hear him out, be calm and totally non-emotional

He will be happy because he thinks he has the answer, the part of his brain that would normally be working when discussing such gut wrenching emotional stuff is totally gone atm so he will be on some sort of high.....because he thinks he has just found the secret to his own happiness

so just hear him out and don't react no matter how much you want too
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline FearNot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 01:25:22 PM »
Hi Hope,

Sorry to see you here. I am pretty new myself so I don't have any words of wisdom for you as to how to deal with tonight. But I am thinking of you and it is terrifying to go through. The veterans should be along soon with some sound advice! Hugs!


Edit - threads merged - OP
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 01:32:40 PM by OldPilot »
M 46
H 39
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/17

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 02:05:18 PM »
I DO NOT WANT A DIVORCE!  I received a text from him asking if I would like to share an attorney he has a meeting on Friday.  I don't think he will be stopping by to talk as he is using the cowardly way out.  I did respond to his text with a No Thank You and then did not respond to his 2nd text.

I just changed the keypad to our garage door opener as he has been coming and going as he wishes in our house.

I am thinking I need to not take calls, texts and just to be out of sight.  Agree?

He seems to have his mind made up- I am scared,  Should I contact an attorney now?

Thanks for the support and hugs!

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 02:07:49 PM »
He seems to have his mind made up- I am scared,  Should I contact an attorney now?
ABSOLUTELY - THE BIGGEST BADDEST ONE YOU CAN FIND

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 03:29:21 PM »
My H listens to my D23.  He was abandon by his mom at the age of 4.  His step mom adopted him 1.5 yrs ago.  His dad died 8 yrs ago and had not dealt with it.  I read up on covert depression,  Since he listens to her and she works in the medical field, what is your thoughts of her telling him he needs to check that out and get help?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 03:31:32 PM by hope2018 »

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 04:19:43 PM »
what is your thoughts of her telling him he needs to check that out and get help?
You should stay out of it IMHO.

He is unlikely to listen and with MLC doing the opposite of what you think is right is usually the thing to do.

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 04:42:45 PM »
Hope, do nothing!

Do not meet or talk to him.

Let things settle down.  Tell him you are not ready to talk yet, you need time, then take that time.
There is no rush.  Turn your cell off.

Keep calm for now.

Just try to relax for tonight with no calls or texts, from anyone.  Just have quiet.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 05:20:42 PM »
what is IMHO?

Thanks everyone I am in panic mode and do need quiet time with the kids and myself!

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 05:26:05 PM »
what is IMHO?

Thanks everyone I am in panic mode and do need quiet time with the kids and myself!
IMHO = In my honest opinion

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10.0

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2018, 06:15:08 PM »
Thank you OP!

Do you feel I should be in no contact at this time?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2018, 06:23:59 PM »
I agree with Thunder - best thing to do right this minute is NOTHING.

You can decide later whether to be limited contact or no contact.

When we do nothing and sit back and wait for answers to reveal themselves, you will be surprised how often that works out that way.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2018, 11:42:54 AM »
So my H did not show up last night to talk but sent a text about sharing an attorney.  I know you say they flip flop a lot but I don't feel like he is.  How can he think he is not hurting the kids and me.  I know they have no empathy and its all about THEM!  I am so scared and just need to know what to do.  He had been coming and going as he wishes to the house and now that I changed the access code to the house he cant.  I am searching for a good attorney but have been told that his attorney is GOOD.  I feel like I am so defeated already!  I know I can drag my feet but as you have said this Replay stage may last longer than 2 years (In 17 mos).  Any guidance will be appreciated on what I should do at this point.

I have been told to get a legal separation please tell me why? 

Thank you everyone for helping me! Hugs to all of you!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:50:13 AM by hope2018 »

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2018, 12:22:24 PM »
I have been told to get a legal separation please tell me why? 
The idea is to protect yourself as best as possible.

A legal separation (if it is available in your state) may help you to do that legally, it also becomes the basis for a divorce should that come to pass.

I am sorry to hear he has a good attorney - find someone that is good to represent you.

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2018, 12:49:13 PM »
Hope, what ever you do, do NOT use the same lawyer.  A lawyer can only represent one person, the person who retained him.
The lawyer will be looking out for his clients best interest, not yours.

Please get your own lawyer and get information from him/her.  Ask about your rights and what you will need if he files for a divorce.
Ask them what the best way to protect yourself, financially.  If it's a legal separation they will tell you that and explain how to go about it.
 
Usually we let them file for the D.   We do absolutely nothing to help them and tell them this is his divorce and you don't want it so if he wants one he will need to do it himself.
Then let him do it.

But this depends on what your lawyers tells you, about protecting yourself.  I hope you find a good one soon.
Are you real concerned about his spending?  Mine never went crazy with money, but some of them do.  So keep a good eye on all your finances.

Sometimes they talk about it but when it's left up to them to do the dirty work, they only talk about it.  Not always but sometimes.

I'm really sorry.  I know how scary this is.  We'll be here to help you along.  It will be ok.  You'll get through this.
Let us know what you find out.  Remember sign nothing without your lawyer looking at it first.

If he brings up the D again just tell him you're not ready to talk about it yet.  You need a little time.

Big Hug
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2018, 04:17:18 PM »
Thank you Thunder!

I will not use his attorney and I plan on dragging my feet!

A question- I was talking to another member and I guess I did not understand Touch N Go.  Can you tell me if you agree that this may be one:

After arriving back on 12/27 from a trip to Cali to spend Christmas with his mom, My H has
12/28 came over to open presents
12/29 dropped off food for us - called in the evening to see where the "kids" bought one of the workout shirts--he knows I bought it
12/30 stopped over and had to make sure he told me that he ended up getting a good deal on the shirts he bought the night before- he knows I am a great shopper and get great deals - like he was wanting acceptance of finding a good deal - normally he doesn't care what things cost.  Called me in the evening to make sure my S19 had black pants for his new job.  - out of character he knows I always take care of this.
12/31 we ended up at the same place for New Years Eve - I saw him watching me having a great time.  Told me to be safe when I was leaving.  Had very little contact with him that evening.
1/1  stopped by and told me I needed to sweep the water out of the garage - he did it for me
1/3 dropped off banana bread
1/4 dropped off toffee he purchased on his trip
1/6 stopped by twice on Sat one to look at my S19 document and then later to drop off cookies and treats
1/7 dropped off a shirt to be exchanged - I did it that day texted him it was here.  He showed up 15 minutes later to PU and also had my S19 download music for him
1/8 D23 asked if he would like to join us for dinner on Friday evening for her birthday- I think it scared him  He offered to make his deep dish homemade pizza for us and grandparents- first mention of my parents
1/9 very polite called me at work and asked about a bill from my sons wisdom teeth surgery - very polite
1/10 called my work to have a meeting with me about moving forward- D

Do you think my D23 asking him to have dinner scared him and that he was doing a touch n go and ran away again?  If not your thoughts on this behavior

Thanks!



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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2018, 05:15:02 PM »
My goodness Hope, you have quite a clinger here.

I never had that so I'm not the right person to ask.

Maybe other with clingers can best answer your questions.
Mine was a Low-Energy Wallower and did not cling much.  He pretty much checked out emotionally.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:23:53 PM by Thunder »
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2018, 06:01:14 PM »
He is not always like this just this period.  During the week I usually don't see him.  So why this time?  Why mention Divorce after all of that?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 06:13:47 PM by hope2018 »

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2018, 01:16:48 AM »
It could just be that he is being nice so that you give him what he wants in the divorce.

MLC'ers like us cycle through ups and downs so it also gould be a few touch and gos.

The most confusion in MLC is at the start and end of the crisis.

So it is also possible that this is also just part of the crisis.
My suggestion is try to take your focus off of him and keep it on yourself.

Learn as much as you can about MLC and relationships.

You might also read about pursuit and distance as that will help you understand some of these dynamics also,

Have you read the Newbie thread in my signature yet and all the links that it takes you to?

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2018, 05:06:40 AM »
I have read the newbie article and I am trying my best.  I just read pursuit and distance. He is certainly the distancer.  My question is when he stops over do I just not engage in conversation?  Do I getup and go to my bedroom and distance myself?  Currently, when he stops over I have been very nice and engage in conversation-Is this wrong?

Last night he posted on snap chat " Choose those who choose you"  Any idea?  He is the one who chose to leave his family.  Maybe this doesn't have anything to do with us?  I find it ironic it is the day before he visits an attorney.


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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2018, 05:14:13 AM »
Hope,

Does he come to the house to visit the kids?  If that's the case then just be cordial and busy yourself doing something.  Let it be about him visiting the kids.

About that quote?  Who the heck knows.  In his crazy world it may not mean anything.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 06:44:37 AM »

About that quote?  Who the heck knows.  In his crazy world it may not mean anything.

Another reason for ignoring social media...I think some MLCers do post Sadz or Profoundz...means nothing useful to you at all...and could change within 5 mins   ::)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2018, 09:21:07 AM »
My question is when he stops over do I just not engage in conversation?  Do I getup and go to my bedroom and distance myself?  Currently, when he stops over I have been very nice and engage in conversation-Is this wrong?

Last night he posted on snap chat " Choose those who choose you"  Any idea?  He is the one who chose to leave his family.  Maybe this doesn't have anything to do with us?  I find it ironic it is the day before he visits an attorney.
There is no right or wrong only what you choose to do.
If you distance yourself you may find that he pursues you,
if you engage him he may run away.
So what are you comfortable with?

None of this is going to effect his MLC and make it go any faster.
We can only slow it down by not detaching and letting him get on with his own crisis.

I would treat him like you treat anyone else that you see when you are walking down a street, if that makes any sense.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2018, 06:07:09 PM »
THUNDER

I also have a low energy MLC, He has totally detached emotionally.  Is there a place to read your story or can you tell me where you are on this journey. 

Can a low energy be a clinger on and off?   Since the phone call to me about wanting to talk about divorce he has not dropped the mail off to the house but is calling my S19 to go to his work and pick it up.  Guilt or more detachment?

I also think he is trying to buy the kids from his guilt.  Do MLC do this?


Offline Schratz66

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2018, 07:17:24 PM »
Hello Hope,
Just caught up on your thread. I’m sorry I gave a vanisherso I have no advice on the clinger you seem to have. What I do notice is that you are still way too involved in what he does, what it means, am I doing the right thing. Dont get me wrong, I am far from detached myself, but you are just making it harder on you. I would see a lawyer and get advice and protection, but other than that let him do what he wants to do. I’m glad you changed the garage door code so he no longer can come and go as he pleases. Has he noticed that yet?
Also, and veterans please correct me if I’m wrong, but you don’t start counting time until BD and not when they first started to change. I know, no off wants to hear that - I know I didn’t want to hear it.

As far as doing things right or wrong, nothing you do will make him go through this any faster, so don’t worry about right or wrong, worry about what is right for you. Whatever helps you, eases your mind, makes you more at peace - that’s what you do.

The going dim or no contact is entirely up to you- if contact with him just gets you panicked or monkey braining, then try to go no contact and see if that helps.

It’s all about you hope, you just worry about you.

Hugs.
Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2018, 12:42:56 AM »
Can a low energy be a clinger on and off?   Since the phone call to me about wanting to talk about divorce he has not dropped the mail off to the house but is calling my S19 to go to his work and pick it up.  Guilt or more detachment?

There are other types of contact types

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0

MLCer Type: Off-n-Ons
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=305.0

Online Thunder

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2018, 02:49:00 AM »
Hope,

It's hard to say if it's guilt or just more detaching from him.

My story started on another site in 2011, but that site was shut down.  I found this site, I think, in 2013.
My dates may be off for some of this.

So my beginning story really isn’t on here.   Sorry.
We were married almost 21 years  (32 together)
My H’s crisis starting in 2011, bd was January 2, so it’s been 7 years now.

He was a very Low-Energy Wallower.
He tried to act High-Energy but it didn’t last.  He didn’t have the energy for it.

He didn’t find an ow, his work was his alienator.  I swear there were weeks he worked 90+ hours.
He felt OLD (he was 46 at the time  ::)). He started frantically working out and did everything he could to feel  younger.  Shaved all his gray hair off, took up running, skateboarding, snowshoeing, biking, tanning, younger clothes and flirting.   He also started buying lotions and creams for his face. 
Complete opposite of what he was.  He WAS a couch potato who looked in the mirror maybe once a day and never flirted with a woman during out whole entire marriage.
 
Yes, he was emotionally checked out.  I could have moved to the other end of the earth and he wouldn’t have cared.  He was never a Monster or mean, just got very self-absorbed and selfish.
There was no clinging.

He moved into the basement and stayed there until I moved out in 2013 and we were divorced about 6 months later.  We never really went NC only once or twice for a week.   We saw each other almost every day, and intimate relations never stopped (with the exception of the 1st 5 months).

I think when I decided to stop having R talks and started being more independent was when he started making positive changes, around the 3rd year.   
The rest is history.

Hope, It's very hard with a Wallower like that because they don't Monster, they treat you decent, so it's confusing and I think keeps your hopes up.  But when mine decided he had to have a D he never waivered.  His mind was made up.
I wish I had not fought it and just let him D me and got it over with.  It would have been easier. But that's just me. 


Edit - Click here to see her story on this board
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;sa=topics;u=3146
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:08:08 AM by OldPilot »
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2018, 06:47:54 AM »
Help me out I am a bit confused.  I agree on my H being Low Energy but you use wallower but I see boomerang- Are they two different categories?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2018, 06:55:03 AM »
Help me out I am a bit confused.  I agree on my H being Low Energy but you use wallower but I see boomerang- Are they two different categories?
I personally think he is an off and on.

Remember that depression is present through ALL crisis's, it can be either COVERT or OVERT.

Your husbands depression is more  OVERT(Obvious).

And the type is really only for how they contact you, CONTACT TYPE.

You react no differently in my opinion.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2018, 07:26:49 AM »
I know he is depressed but nobody else sees it- not even him or he doesn't want to admit it.  Is there anything I can do to get him help?  I think I know the answer -NO  What about his best friend?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2018, 07:28:17 AM »
I know he is depressed but nobody else sees it- not even him or he doesn't want to admit it.  Is there anything I can do to get him help?  I think I know the answer -NO  What about his best friend?
That is why stage one is called DENIAL.

Now you also have to get past your own stage of it.

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2018, 07:42:03 AM »
Hope, mine showed a lot of depression through this too. 
He never saw it as depression, he was just exhausted.   ::)

No, don't try to help him.  He has to go through this in order to come out of it, all by himself.
They usually resent you for talking to someone else about them.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2018, 08:23:18 AM »
OP

Denial that I cant help him?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2018, 08:28:40 AM »
OP

Denial that I cant help him?
That you can not FIX him or help him, that you are not in control of him or anything other than yourself.

Its hard - I have been there.

Letting GO is not a natural thing but what we must do.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2018, 07:57:46 AM »
Quick question:
As posted before my husband had a lot of contact with the family for almost two weeks starting 12/28 the day after he returned from spending Christmas with his mom (has wanted to do that since his dad passed 8 yrs ago - but his mom never came home to spend the time with her 4 sons).  Told D23 on 12/17 (prior to flying out) that he stopped drinking (Didn't stop but changed bar and reduced his drinking- stays home on Sat nights only has been going on Friday nights).  1/10 noticed he deleted his Twitter account (had stopped using it because D23 said he needed to stop using it so he didn't embarrass her or him), Last night ran into his guy friend who is 26 and he said he has had no contact with my H since he left for the trip.  He also stated he sees what he is doing and all of his changes not making him younger.  At last someone else sees this!

My H has been in Replay 17 months,  Could he be coming to the end of this stage making these small changes?

H gets cold sores during stress he has had three since December.  Could he be facing some of his issues?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:00:53 AM by hope2018 »

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 11:09:27 AM »
Hope, this is one of RCR's articles:

Many of you come here and start a thread and somewhere on your post comment that you either don't know where your MLCer is in the stages, or that maybe he or she is in Depression or Withdrawal. So before you look through the resources and try to place your MLCer somewhere within the stages...
If your Bomb Drop was less than a year ago, your MLCer is in Replay.
If your Bomb Drop was within the last 18 months, your MLCer is in Replay.
If your Bomb Drop was within the last 24 months there is still a good chance that your MLCer is in Replay.

None of those statements hold true for all circumstances, but they do for most. Bomb Drop is either the start of Replay or comes soon after the start of Replay.


Unfortunately Replay seems to be the longest stage.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »
I have seen that post before and My H could have been in replay longer but I am going with when he started working out - not when he asked for different clothes which was in 7/2015 (11 months earlier).  I am just wondering if these could be signs and if others have seen signs when they are ending the replay stage.  I understand that it doesn't happen overnight but I would think that people would see something that they are on the end of this stage which could still last another few months or so.


Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2018, 02:46:19 PM »
Sorry to say in the first year I saw every stage.

Then two years later I was divorced and now I would say escape and avoid continues.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2018, 03:12:36 PM »
We are not in the first year but 2 1/2 years for MLC. This is the first time I can find evidence of the crisis.  Do you mean first year of Replay?

I also see my H as covert depression on overt.

I agree he is low energy but see both boomerang and wallower in him.  He left one year after BD #1, Articles state many will leave but not for a few years.  Any info you can give on this?

This is so confusing!

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2018, 04:46:34 PM »
Hope, all I can say is the first time I saw the very deep, debilitating type of depression it was almost 3 years in.

His depression was so dark he had to take days off of work because he literally couldn't get up the energy to go.
All he did was sleep....and he was very quiet.

I think that is the depression that you need to see.  It will be different than anything you've seen before.
To me that was the beginning of the end of replay.
BUT he actually bounces back out of it the first time and it took him another year (year 4) to hit that dark place again.

I'm just saying please don't stage watch him.
When he's ready to come out of this you will know, you will see it.

Just put your energy in you for now.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2018, 06:21:31 PM »
I'm just saying please don't stage watch him.
When he's ready to come out of this you will know, you will see it.

Just put your energy in you for now.
EXACTLY

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2018, 03:00:17 PM »
He contacted me today and asked if I had an attorney yet.  He has shown no emotion to me. I told him that he would be divorcing me and I was not divorcing him.  I told him that he is a special person and I care about him very much.  I acknowledged that I have made changes for the better and he said he knows.  I told him the wall he has up is not allowing him to love and he is hurting inside.  I see the pain.    I said to look to God for help to heal. 
I also set a boundary to stop contacting me at work on this issue.

Ant suggestions?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2018, 03:04:37 PM »
He contacted me today and asked if I had an attorney yet.  He has shown no emotion to me. I told him that he would be divorcing me and I was not divorcing him.  I told him that he is a special person and I care about him very much.  I acknowledged that I have made changes for the better and he said he knows.  I told him the wall he has up is not allowing him to love and he is hurting inside.  I see the pain.    I said to look to God for help to heal. 
I also set a boundary to stop contacting me at work on this issue.

Ant suggestions?
Now that you have said all this their is no reason to say it again.
I am sure he heard it, but the best thing to do now is to be a quiet as possible.

I know you mean well by what you said although I think it ends up having the opposite effect.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2018, 03:29:49 PM »
I will be quiet.  I just felt the need to say it,  I had not talked to him about the pain and the healing he needs.  So that is why I did.  Do I just stay out of the picture?  There is an event on Saturday I could go to but he will be there.  Thoughts?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2018, 06:21:30 PM »
Personally I would not go, unless you can go with NO EXPECTAIONS and being totally detached.

My guess is you are not up to that.

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2018, 07:44:39 PM »
Hope,

Seconding OP here.

Are you truly able to see and/or interact with your husband without emotions right now?  If not, and you can be ok with it, stay home.

Being quiet right now is going to be incredibly hard, especially if you have a fix it desire.  Honey it takes time.  Time to grow, grieve, and learn. 

You will get there. Sending hugs.
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

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For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

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We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2018, 03:52:41 AM »
I DID like the part about this being his D not yours.   :)

Hope, I know you felt you had to tell him that stuff but honestly in their fogged up brain they don't care.
They don't feel their in pain or feel they have a wall up, it's you being in denial.  You're truly better off just not saying anything to him right now.

I think part of it is panic, I've been there believe me.
I thought maybe I have to say something that will jar his memory or make him THINK before he ruins our marriage and our lives together, but it just doesn't work.

Once they shut their emotions off they don't even hear us.

I'm sorry but I'm just being honest.
It took my H 3 years before I saw any kind of emotion from him, and it wasn't much to write home about.

Mine was set on his divorce and no matter what I said or did it never stopped him.
All I could do was lawyer up and get all the information I could to protect myself.  You don't need to tell him you did but I'd sure have someone on my side in case he does file.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2018, 10:38:53 AM »
I am looking for an attorney to protect myself.  I think I could go and just ignore his presence.  I would not try to talk to him but have fun and let him see that I don't NEED  him. I can manage on my own. But if him seeing me there having fun us going to jeopardize anything I won't go. 

His boss reached out to me today and he has stated my H is down. He has had conversations with him telling him the grass isn't greener as he can already see.  He said my H said he is worried about me handling a D. And that I deserve someone better. Thoughts?  I told his boss this conversation did not happen and that my H needs to crash and burn yet. Just to watch him.

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2018, 11:07:21 AM »
I'm not sure I understate your first few sentences.

Did you mean go get an attorney for information, but go have fun?  Are you worried if you go have fun it will jeopardize what?
He's already says he wants a D, so how do you think you will be jeopardizing anything.

If you want to go have fun with your friends, do it.  It won't matter.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2018, 11:18:00 AM »
I was responding that yes I am getting an attorney.

Secondly, you all day that they say one thing but don't always follow through(divorce) so I don't want yo jeopardize anything that could mske him change his mind- not that he will!

Him seeing me out and  having fun work effect him you are saying?

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
When you go to have fun it is for YOU - not to try to win him back.

What you do or don't do has no effect on MLC,
so that is why you do things for yourself.

As far as following through on the divorce about the only thing you can do is be as dark as possible and do NOTHING.

Offline in it

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2018, 11:37:58 AM »
I hope he can respect the boundary of not contacting you at work. If he can't you may need to get a little tougher with that.
((HUGS))
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Offline bvFTD

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2018, 12:16:36 PM »
Dear Hope:

The first question my husband's neurologist asked was how was he sleeping? My FH started sleeping fitfully several months before walking out on our beautiful 25-year marriage. He'd go from the bed to the couch to a guest room back to the couch. He could not get a decent night's rest. Apparently, that is cause for concern.

My husband also started feverishly exercising a couple years before he left and consuming protein powders. He wanted us to double date with his 25-year-old personal trainer and his girlfriend! He bought a Ford Mustang convertible one day and came home frequently with shopping bags of trendy clothes for himself. He never cared about fashion before.

His complete lack of empathy and concern for me and our children was evidenced by his abandonment and draining of our bank accounts so the children and I were facing foreclosure. He also told me that he cares for me but doesn't love me. I know now that he no longer is capable of loving me, that his ability to love and feel any emotion at all (except for rage) has been destroyed, in his case, by an under-recognized neurodegenerative brain disorder called frontotemporal dementia that strikes people in their 40s to 60s. Or your husband could have a psychiatric disorder and is unraveling in midlife or even severe vitamin deficiencies.

Please don't wait to hire an attorney. You have no idea what he could be up to and how much marital money he's blowing through. Also, if you can, try to get him to a neurologist or even a psychiatrist and let them know you are concerned about your husband's drastic personality change and complete and utter lack of emotion toward you.


Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2018, 04:36:23 PM »
I just wanted you all to know I went to the event and had a blast only said hello to H in passing and my team won first place!!!!  I had so many people tell me it was good to see me and that I looked awesome.  They were all very supportive and I am so glad I went.  I even joined a group at the local bar after the event and yes my husband was there but I did my thing and was so proud of myself not to let him control where I go.  I did notice he was talking to a neighbor and this is the one I think he was fantasizing about.  I saw him look out of the corner of his eye (so obvious) at me while he was talking to her but I did nothing and continued to talk with my friends.

His group left and I am wondering if he attempted to "hook up" with her and was rejected.  She does have a boyfriend and is 20 years younger than him.  Sunday and Monday he posted "comfort food" and "Bad Day time to work it out" (at the gym).  He also has not talked to my daughter in three days.  On Thursday prior she told him to stop posting selfies that it was embarrassing.  He has stopped and seems to listen to her.  Any thoughts on the no contact with my daughter (only talked to son 1 in three days)  Could it be from rejection if that happened?  Could he be frustrated there is "No good ones" left (his words)?  What will this do to him"  Remember he has not had a physical affair only fantasized/emotional - low-energy.  Can he move to high energy?

I know he knew I had a great evening because I was up talking to everyone and he could easily see I was confident or maybe he really didn't care, lol

This is also the first day he has not posted on snap chat since he left four months ago (my daughter said, I don't have snap chat)

Any thoughts will be appreciated!



« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 05:34:56 PM by hope2018 »

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2018, 06:32:05 AM »
  Any thoughts on the no contact with my daughter (only talked to son 1 in three days)  Could it be from rejection if that happened? 
Could he be frustrated there is "No good ones" left (his words)? 
What will this do to him"  Remember he has not had a physical affair only fantasized/emotional - low-energy.  Can he move to high energy?

I know he knew I had a great evening because I was up talking to everyone and he could easily see I was confident or maybe he really didn't care, lol

This is also the first day he has not posted on snap chat since he left four months ago (my daughter said, I don't have snap chat)

Any thoughts will be appreciated!
OK - good job at going.

Just remember you are making these changes for YOU - not to win him back or to speed up his crisis.

Anything is possible about what this will DO to him.

YES - he could move to high energy or have an affair.
Most do have affairs.

As far as your D23 goes - she is old enough to make her own decisions - I would try to stay out of her relationship with your husband.
That is for her to decide not you.

Much harder to do than when I write this.

I actually try to encourage my children to have a relationship with their mother.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2018, 06:46:08 AM »
I do encourage a relationship with her father!!! She is waiting for him to reach out.  I never speak bad about their father and she does everything on her own.  She shares everything with me so we know he is ok! We both know we can't fix him and he has to do it on his own.

Me going to the event was for me- being selfish - I deserve to feel good and enjoy myself!!

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2018, 07:06:54 AM »
Me going to the event was for me- being selfish - I deserve to feel good and enjoy myself!!
Absolutely - good job!

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2018, 07:07:53 AM »
Yes, you certainly do.

Keep doing these fun things for yourself.   ;D
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2018, 09:14:50 AM »
So Feb 1st I received a text from my husband about an attorney.  In return called him.   I had not had contact with him for two weeks and made him talk to me.  I am dealing with my fathers illness and Hospice has been called.  I do not have time to deal with my husband. 
He answered the phone and I told him "I will have an attorney but I have spent 17 hours in the past three days after work with my dad.  I am sitting here waiting for the plumber when I could be with my dad as he is dying and you are worried about an attorney"  He told me to go down to my parents that he told S19 he would get a hold of the plumber and he wasn't sure when he was coming.  I said I am sorry I misunderstood the conversation between you and S19.

I then told him that he should not be asking the kids if I have an attorney. You keep this up you will be putting more space between you and the kids.  They are mad, angry and hurting.  He was silent

I told him that I know he has moved on and so have I.  I asked Don't you see that?  He stated NO.  I said have I texted you, called you or reached out to you? - I said nope I moved on.  He was silent.

Also I asked him how different do you think you are going to feel having that divorce paper in your hand compared to how you feel now. He was silent.

We had more discussion and we were both calm but I was firm.

The next day (Friday) he reached out to D23 and she said he was very nice!! X-tra nice.  Not just texted but called.  She also said he sounds terrible-sick with cold.
H made lasagna bake and garlic bread and had my S19 pick it up from him.

Saturday D23 said he posted on social media using "bleary Saturday", #winter blues, #boredaf

He did not go out either Friday night or Saturday- feeling ill.

This is the first that I know he has actually put it out there that he is "feeling down".  Do you think the conversation on Thursday has maybe hit home with him?  Do you think he could be realizing that he is depressed?

He would say he likes being alone but stating he is "bored as firetruck" (sorry) - doesn't seem like he is enjoying his alone time. 

Any thoughts or answers will be appreciated!!
 


Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2018, 10:44:20 AM »
Do you think the conversation on Thursday has maybe hit home with him?
Probably not

Do you think he could be realizing that he is depressed?
Maybe but I would not count on it.
All you can do is sit back and watch his actions and see what that presents.

They tend to hit bottom and bounce right back up like the energizer bunny and just keep going and going.

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2018, 12:12:23 PM »
So how do you know when they hit rock bottom?

Do you think he may feel like I am turning my back on him?

In the beginning it is all about being alone - if he is bored and lonely does that click with him that moving out isn't helping his state of happiness?



« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 12:19:03 PM by hope2018 »

Online Kitty

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2018, 12:45:48 PM »
Hi Hope,
 I am pretty new to this MLC mess also. I read somewhere, and I really need to start remembering where I read some of these posts, but there are so many. That the MLCer has hit rock bottom when they have tried EVERYTHING possible to avoid the issues they need to resolve within themselves. Only then can they start looking at where the problem lies, and work on themselves. That's why replay is the longest stage, since that's the stage where they escape and avoid.

I don't think it will matter yet if he thinks you're turning your back on him, right now he is still focused on him. You may count the replay start as 11-17 months ago, but it is still early in the game.

If he wants to move out, he will. Even if it means he is bored and lonely. My H tells me all the time how miserable he is. He is going to do what he thinks he NEEDS to do.

Although in my case, which you don't see many like mine, I lived with him and his parents, so it was up to me to move out. He thought it would be best, so we didn't become toxic.
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 12
No kids, no pets
BD #1 Late October 2017 - H says he feels like he is living with a room mate at times (ILYBINILWY) and has considered separation.
BD #2 12/22/17 - Day after legal separation signed, I find out about OW after H said there wasn't one.

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2018, 03:45:04 PM »
Kitty
Thank you for your reply!!

My husband did move out.  He has been in MLC since 7/2015 and replay since 9/2016. I think 18 months is a longggg time for me and my kids!!  How can they for 18 months (replay) or even 2.5 yrs not realize they have issues?  Maybe they do but are in denial and do not want to deal with it. I would think one would get exhausted of no sleep and the mind cycling.  I don't understand how they "try everything to avoid the issue" So they feel miserable but just don't why? Please explain if you can.

I have detached but obviously not good enough.  I have days like today where I just miss him so much!



Online Kitty

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2018, 04:35:24 PM »
Hope,
 I think they realize they have issues but they don't want to think it is with them. So they will project their unhappiness onto those closest to them, which unfortunately ends up being their spouse and kids.

My husband is miserable and tired all the time. He even says that he know something is wrong with him, and is going to counseling, but he still avoids.

There are many different reasons that they go through this, no case is the same. Just the script.
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 12
No kids, no pets
BD #1 Late October 2017 - H says he feels like he is living with a room mate at times (ILYBINILWY) and has considered separation.
BD #2 12/22/17 - Day after legal separation signed, I find out about OW after H said there wasn't one.

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2018, 06:13:13 PM »
Kitty

So glad to hear your husband is in counseling. I wish you the best!

I wish my H could see what he is doing to our kids!  They have anger and are so hurt.  It breaks my heart!!!!  My kids may be older but they live at home and are still affected by this craziness!!  None of it makes sense to them as his actions are so out of character.  I have never seen my H push for something as hard as he is pushing for a D.  He is ruining our family and we were such a GREAT family!!  Now we are all so broken, hurt and want off this roller coaster. 

I just wish my H would fix himself (as we cant fix him)!!!  trying to buy time but the clock is ticking :(


Online Kitty

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2018, 06:55:38 PM »
I've wondered about that for myself, we never had kids, he never wanted kids so I never pushed for any. I wonder if it would be good to have kids, as it would be something for me to focus on. But at the same time, I know how much this hurts and confuses me, I can only imagine what it does to the kids. Especially those with younger kids like cplnorton, and UrsaMajor, and Lioness to name a few.

Right now time is on your side. Take the time for self healing. Just as the MLC spouse is going through a process, so are we. Hearing my H say he wanted a separation tore me up, finding out about my OW just about destroyed me. We need time to heal ourselves from the damage done by bomb drop.

It's been hard for me to achieve detachment as quick as I'd like because my H is a CB, but it's something I'm working on. You should do the same, it will probably save your sanity in the end, by helping you keep off the roller coaster. If you keep yourself from being sucked into the drama it's a small victory, take them as you can get them and move forward one minute, one hour, one day at a time.
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 12
No kids, no pets
BD #1 Late October 2017 - H says he feels like he is living with a room mate at times (ILYBINILWY) and has considered separation.
BD #2 12/22/17 - Day after legal separation signed, I find out about OW after H said there wasn't one.

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Offline OldPilot

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2018, 03:52:07 AM »
So how do you know when they hit rock bottom?

Do you think he may feel like I am turning my back on him?

In the beginning it is all about being alone - if he is bored and lonely does that click with him that moving out isn't helping his state of happiness?

Here is a thread on the subject


http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=342.0

Offline hope2018Topic starter

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Re: HOPE, FAITH AND MUCH NEEDED KNOWLEDGE
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2018, 02:33:21 PM »
THIS IS A POST TO MY MENTOR AND AN UPDATE TO YOU ALL DATED MAY 21ST "Hello!! It has been some time since I have posted. A lot has happened in the past months. I did get an attorney and I have not heard one more word from my H on a divorce. YAY!! Since March 30 he has been cycling a lot, depression is seen a lot more and he has made some strides. A situation happened that scared him and I believe he may have had an awakening, (too hard to tell) He confided in me on the situation (blackmail type with whom He tried to have an affair with) he told me she was crazy LOL! This happened the First week of April. Cycling has been on two weeks off two weeks on and off. He’s giving me a compliment which is a first in a long time he paid for my Mother’s Day gift and my mother‘s Mother’s Day gift. He gave me an OK to add his name to a graduation card. He has came to my work on April 5 and April 12 to drop off the mail. On Saturday he came to the house to wash his truck....... Just to name a few...the depression I see is not the same as before. He can’t cover this up. I May be the only one that can see it but I know it is there. I saw a deer in the headlights on 4/12. He is tired and his replay behaviors are slowing down- some have stopped. His behaviors were not as bad as some and I thank god for that!!  He continues to exercise but social media is reduced, not hanging with young friends - does see them once in a great while but we live in a community of 2500 people.

I have been doing super concentrating on me and exercising- feeling great!  I have a couple of questions- with H not living at home I know it may be difficult to see the transition into the next stages- can you tell me the difference in the end of replay depression vs the depression stage. I know rock bottom has to occur and I may not see that either. Just need to have the knowledge of the difference. I go on with my life and don't know what is going on with him day to day, buy when he stops by i take in as much as I can. I continue to be kind and his light house.

We started this replay journey August 2016 and MLC July 2015. I have a positive attitude that he will keep moving long on his journey - and I will do the same with the help of my friends."

NOW AN UPDATE SINCE MAY 21ST:

Baking sweets every weekend stopped in March.
Posting on Snapchat has stopped two weeks ago- D23 has snap with him.
His social media posting of meals he makes has stopped- so have the meals- nothing delivered to us since end of April. He also has been eating out more.
Diet has changed back- not eating as healthy anymore.
He went out Memorial day weekend and since then (the last two weekends) he stayed home with his mom or went for dinner with her.--No concert, bar or drinking with friends/brother.
Has not been with 25 year old friends to make him feel younger since end of April.
Contact with kids has been reduced since May 13.
Admitted to kids that he has been tired May 13 and May 18.
June 7 sent a group text to kids and me- for son to get a second job.
No additional talk about D since March!!

He drops off mail and he is in the house and out of the house very quickly not talking to the kids.  I am at work during this time.  On Thursday he actually stopped at the house and brought me mail that was a week old- sale ads.  That morning he saw me out jogging for the first time- he will see me walking once in a while.  This day his depression was not noticeable like I had seen in April-May. 

Now that you have some additional history I have a couple of questions.
Since I do not see my H often I will not know when his awakening is/was right?  Or should I see a change in him?  I have read that the awakening will cause replay to end.

I thought he was entering the depression stage ....Maybe he isn't !!???  Does it matter lol?  He is still in MLC :)  Could he be in the depression and withdrawal stage since he doesn't have much contact with the kids anymore?  Can he cover up his overt depression for a moment since I/we do not see him much?

When do I know to change my behavior - from cordial and kind to more open to let him know we want him to come home (when he is ready to)?

Until that time I will keep doing my thing- exercising and living life with my precious kids!!  Its too bad that kids have to go through this too!!

I hope you all have a great weekend!







 

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