Author Topic: MLC Monster Head, Neck, and Body Changes  (Read 1633 times)

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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MLC Monster Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« on: February 07, 2018, 11:32:35 PM »
My young son told me last night that his dad looks different. He told me, "His eyes are sunken in and his head and neck have gotten wider." He has commented before that his dad has also gained weight. I had noticed an odd phenomenon where my ex, Ben Affleck, and Dean from "Tori and Dean" series (detailed in another thread, as I feel that Dean has whatever we are describing here) all have an uncannily similar "look." I have seen this in other celebrities we might suspect as being MLC as well. There is an odd "widening." I have had the uncanny sensation at times that I am watching something like a bizarre natural phenomenon. Like I am literally watching one type of being morph into another. And when I look at the images of these men, I feel that oddly they are morphing into the same type of thing. What could possibly cause these men to somehow "widen"? I mean, what causes your skull and neck and eye shape to change so that even a child can notice it? This isn't just about weight gain or getting fat. There is something very distinct to the "look." Could an atrophying/shrinking brain cause this phenomenon? Anyhow, I am interested to hear your thoughts.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:29:53 PM by Rollercoasterider »

Offline moc

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 12:09:43 AM »
Velika, I don't know why but, I have to agree with the appearance changes in the MLCer.  My wife as of recent has those "sunken eyes" and neck/head seems bigger also.  I have seen that she has also gained weight mostly in the face and now I can see the light fuzz of a mustache and beard on her.  I am betting hormone changes during MLC have much of a greater cause to this.  At least that is my guess.  Maybe the "eat" to stave off the depression, boredom, etc. as "running behaviors" are more inclined to other addictions or abuses (alcohol, drugs, food, etc.).
M: 47
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BD#2: 11/2017
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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 06:56:12 AM »
I would think the widening affect is gaining weight in the face.

If there were to be any change to the skull due to the brain atrophying or shrinking it certainly wouldn't get bigger...

If the brain were to shrink I would imagine your body would produce fluid to surround and cushion it...otherwise it would be dangerous and slapping around in your head.

If you notice a young man say 17-20 they still look very boyish...and then due to hormones etc from about 24-26 they 'get more manly'. I would think the changes you are seeing are your husband going from a more athletic looking younger man to a 'softer' older man. No doubt due to hormone fluctuation, change in facial hair distribution, skin tone, and fat deposits in the face and neck.

Online Thunder

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 07:12:53 AM »
Mine seem to get a thinner neck, but I'm thinking it was from weight loss.
I did see a lot of aging in his face, but then I suppose the stress of it all did that.
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Offline Nas

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 07:22:05 AM »
I recently saw a picture of my H for the first time in a year and a half.  He had gained a lot of weight the last time I saw him, in 2016.  In the recent picture, his face did look wider.  He still had fairly dark empty eyes, despite his big goofy teenage grin.

I often see Ben Affleck and think he looks an awful lot like my H in the way his eyes have darkened and appear empty and he looks puffy and heavier.
Married 8 years at BD, together 16.
BD March 2015
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Offline dogwalker

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 07:24:16 AM »
I saw pictures of my W while having a practise make over for the S27 wedding. The eyes have defo sunk into her head but they have also dropped at the side too.

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 07:30:43 AM »
I haven't seen my H in several months, but someone saw him recently and said he looks terrible.  Gaunt and dark.  I know he has lost some weight.  He has also been drinking a lot (maybe Ben Affleck's problem too?)   I think there is something to what you are all saying.  This is a more powerful force than I ever knew!
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Offline Nas

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 07:42:57 AM »
I saw pictures of my W while having a practise make over for the S27 wedding. The eyes have defo sunk into her head but they have also dropped at the side too.


To be fair, I have seen these kind of changes in myself as well over the last few years.  Could be my genetics/normal aging or could be a result of the stress of H's pre-BD changes and the stress since BD.
Married 8 years at BD, together 16.
BD March 2015
H moved out July 2015
I found out about OW March 2016 (She went to high school with H, long distance EA since September 2014, became PA November 2015)
H moved 1100 miles to live with OW June 2016
I was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer June 2017
H became a vanisher

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 08:17:52 AM »
Yes, but my ex had been various range of weight before, and this is distinct. There is a specific "look" to this, at least this thing that my ex seems to have, and I suspect the other men I mentioned have.

My dad, for example, is much older than my ex and he has never had this look. My former FIL also never had this look; in fact, pre-MLC I would have assumed my ex would age like his dad. The person who does have this look is my former MIL, who also has extremely sunken eyes.

I would say the "look" arc that Ben Affleck has followed — including expression and appearance of eyes — is nearly identical to my ex, on a similar timeline. My ex does not have the same genetic background as Ben Affleck or even very similar coloring, and yet they have both morphed into a similar, peculiar "type."

Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 03:26:24 PM »
Mr J also has that look - I saw it myself live a couple of weeks ago. It is the drinking, not sleeping and MLC lifestyle stress combined.

Mid 2009 Mr J had lost a lot of weight (his normal self his slender), looked like someone out of a concentration camp. Then, he become the bloated  weird person he has been since.

Mr J looks terrible, and had looked in years, yet, his MLC friends, OW2 and pretty much everyone else thinks he looks great.

Then again, pretty much everyone but myself then a friend that is having a MLC that his MLC self pictures on FB look great and that friend looks handsome. He doesn't. He looks like a junkie.

Stayed used to talk a lot of how her husband's looks changed while deep in crisis, then, as the crisis start to wear off, how he went back to his normal looks.


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Offline OneHotMess

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 03:40:29 PM »
I have noticed the sunken eyes on my h. When looking at his pictures he looks like he has aged about 10 years in the last year.
M 40
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Ow 41( his 1st cousin) moved in May 23, 2017, she went back to her husband Oct 2017
Ow moved back with her 2 kids Jan 1 2018 even with courts cutting his visitation with his kids because of it
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Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 06:46:24 PM »
I came across a video of myself while in crisis and it seems like a totally different person. I look a lot more like I did pre-crisis now (aged, but my features are more normal). Twice while in crisis I had people tell me they didn't recognize me, and once afterward when I showed someone a picture of me. Age is part of it, but the physical changes during this time are real.

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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 07:18:52 PM »
I think that after the initial, feverish attempt to replace serotonin by exercising, raging, drinking, spending, and firetruck!ng, they slow down. Then they gain weight from the carb cravings that is replacing the earlier panicky behavior.

The brain DOES change shape because it is shrinking. CSF replaces the neurons so the skull becomes squishy.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 07:25:55 PM »
The skull becomes squishy?

The skull is made of bone so not sure how you think it could change in composition.
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Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2018, 07:46:03 PM »
I always looked pretty much the same before, during, and after my little crisis.

The skull does not change. Not unless some accident causes skull bones damage. Also, there are layers between the skull and the brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura_mater (dura means hard in Portuguese and Latin). Like there are layers and many parts in the brain.

As for the brain chaging shape, we have no clue. Not with MLCers. And if, for some reason, it really is shrinking, after MLC is goes back to normal, since the person becomes normal again.

Nor do we know if all, or most MLCer, get into carbs. Mr J's bloatdness is not from carbs. He eated tons of carbs prior MCL and was always slender. It is the drinking.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:11:15 PM by Anjae »
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Offline xyzcf

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 08:02:12 PM »
If indeed there is atrophy of the brain, then all those who are no longer in crisis would have lasting effects because in general, the brain does not "regenerate easily"..which is just not what we see.

I don't recall hearing of any MLCer whose skull became squishy..but then we are not talking about MLC here. I am not even sure what we are talking about.

My MLC has always been obese so that's nothing new in my case.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:03:23 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 08:09:43 PM »
Xyz:

Hats off to you:

Everyone knows the skull is bone. You just can't cut me a break, can you? CSF replaces the dead cells so the BRAIN becomes filled with liquid - squishy. The skull kind of collapses around the damaged, smaller brain. Have you seen pictures of Zika infants?

Many of us report the sunken eyes in our spouses because the frontal lobe is right behind them. The eyes are the window to the soul, and my husband, for one, has lost his.




Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 08:19:03 PM »
MLCers aren't infants with Zika.

The brain and the skull are not the same thing. Nor is the dura the same as the brain or the skull.

The brain may become flooded, by a number of reasons, hemorrhagic stroke being one.

The MLCer eyes are dead/skunken because of depression. Depression does that to the eyes. So does drinking. Velika had Ben Afflec as an example. His skull is fine. So is the skull of our MLCers.

Your husband is not having a MLC, bvFTD. You cannot compare him to people who are having a MLC. Just like you cannot compare infants with Zika to MLCers.

Are you going to keep raising hell and come out with insults and with off topic stuff and bring non MLC things up? And use your husband that is not having MLC as an example of a MLCer? Hope not.

As for CSF: "Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is a biologic fluid, formed mainly in the ventricular choroid plexus, distributed within the ventricular system, basal cisterns, and subarachnoid space. Analysis of the CSF provides invaluable diagnostic information because diseases take place either within its bounding membranes (e.g., meningitis) or in the adjoining parameningeal structures of the brain (e.g., brain abscess)."

"Examination of the CSF is useful in patients suspected of having meningitis, encephalitis, neurosyphilis, subarachnoid hemorrhage, multiple sclerosis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, meningeal carcinomatosis, and many other processes that may involve the CNS." from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK398/

Our MLCers are not suspected of having " meningitis, encephalitis, neurosyphilis, subarachnoid hemorrhage, multiple sclerosis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, meningeal carcinomatosis..."
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:22:47 PM by Anjae »
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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 08:30:19 PM »
All right guys:

I was responding to the person who started this fascinating thread about physical changes, head and neck widening and sunken eyes.

Please ignore my theories or scroll down when you see you my name so I don't offend your sensibilities.

Thank you.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 08:44:06 PM »
I do not like misinformation.

I don't like confusing LBSers. I would rather that the focus be on what is real..that is  midlife crisis.

I don't know where you are getting this information from bvFTD:

Quote
The skull kind of collapses around the damaged, smaller brain. Have you seen pictures of Zika infants?

Yes, in infants the skull is still not completely formed. There are two fontanelles, the posterior closes at 1-2 months and the anterior from 9 to 18 months. Certainly we see increased brain size in children with hydrocephaly and decreased brain size in children who have microcephaly. I have encountered both in my nursing career. It is very sad for these children and very debilitating.

If information is posted on HS that seems misinformed, I will comment on it.

I would really like to see people focusing on MLC..not clutching at straws to put some obscure diagnosis on what has happened to our loved ones.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 08:46:57 PM »
Anjae:

You are fortunate your husband has MLC. I think most people on this board are dealing with something much more serious.


Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2018, 08:58:40 PM »
Most here are dealing with a spouse in MLC. Some are dealing with something else. Others have a spouse that had/has other issue and is now having a MLC on top of those. MLC will go away, the other issues will not.

If everyone here whose spouse is having a MLC is going to have a spouse that comes out of MLC, that is another issue. Most will, but not all.

If the couple will reconnect or reconcile that is also a different matter.

Not sure if it is luck having a spouse that only has MLC. I guess, compared with some things, yes.
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Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2018, 09:13:27 PM »
Behavioral variant frontotemporal dementia is not obscure but poorly understood and therefore likely under-diagnosed and under-recognized. bvFTD is in fact very well informed. I have read a lot of her advice to other posters, and it is always on point. Furthermore, she keeps her focus on the well being of the spouse. I find her well informed and interesting, and I'm sorry that so many discussion gets derailed because she is accused of being irrelevant to the discussion.

MLC is just an umbrella term. It truly means nothing at all, except that it is a description for many of our common observations, and follows a general pattern as outlined on this site and others. Maybe if we can just discuss this as our interests move us we will all learn something. I actually think what Anjae posted and what bv is saying are not at odds.

XYZ you are saying that you don't like misinformation but you often post that many LBS reunite with their MLCer and go on to have wonderful marriages. I think this is honestly a much worse thing to tell a traumatized and shocked LBS than that her husband is unwell. Many of us think of our spouses as they used to be when we are bomb dropped; in the trauma it is hard to fathom that they simply are no longer the person we once loved and loved us in return, and tragically, may never be again.

The result is that a LBS can fail to protect herself and her children, or think that she can somehow game this by doing the right things like "GAL," "validating," or "detaching." I'm not saying that this is bad advice, but it is really something that needs to come naturally in the grief process, and may not truly be a destination but a slow process that takes a lot of time.

A story does not need to have a happy ending, or be a romance, to be about love. I am extremely moved by many people's devotion to their spouses on this forum, as well as to those who try to help the women and men who were once in their own position. I put bv in this category. Discussions like this should be allowed to go all over the map, because if we really and truly care about our spouses and whatever this blanket term is, then we should also want to know what it is or might be.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2018, 09:59:19 PM »
Just want to add a postscript that we are sadly not a unique group in facing confusion and loss over a vague grouping of symptoms. There are many mysterious conditions on the rise with also controversial theories and questions surrounding them.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 10:07:10 PM »
Back to topic of face shape, changed appearance.

It occurred to me that a primate that has changes to face shape is the orangutan. Dominant  develop phalanges. They are thought to be connected to testosterone levels.

Obviously our ex do not have phalanges. But perhaps there is some type of connection or at least evidence that primates of other species can change appearance in late adulthood and possibly in connection to hormone levels and even tangentially power hierarchy.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 02:36:45 AM »
I would not discount things can happen in terms of BVFTD, MLC, and other diseases/illnesses/personality disorders.

But I would point out that if BVFTD shrinks the brain...leaving space within the skull..that somehow your body wouldn't automatically fill with fluids to cushion and protect it (as it will), which made your skull cave in a bit (which unless you have a degenerative bone disease seems unlikely) then... Your skull would get smaller...not wider right?!  ???

So from a biological standpoint...even if your brain DID shrink...and your skull somehow DID shrink...it certainly wouldn't WIDEN your face and neck...it would narrow the top of your head!

Somehow this discussion went from physical characteristics to MLC vs BVFTD again. In doing so there are some glaringly obvious errors into the biology behind the argument.

The only things that could widen your face that are apparently obvious at this stage in life would be lifestyle (diet, drinking), hormones, or normal ageing processes that degenerate the skin (making it saggy) and a change in fat deposits of the face etc. Lack of sleep and increased stress would also attribute to ageing, and a slowing of your ability to heal damage etc.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 07:31:03 AM »
I found this article that sums of bvFTD. I want to say, this sounds a lot like what I am witnessing. Does this mean that my ex has bvFTD? I don't know and cannot say, because he has not visited a neurologist.

If he categorically does not have bvFTD, and this can be surmised because he follows a pattern others have witnessed in MLC, whereby he has a chance to eventually recover, can we still learn from this?

Yes, I think so, because MLC likely affects the same parts of the brain given all of the symptomatic overlap.

Quote
Frontotemporal Dementia (FTD), formerly referred to as “Pick’s Disease,” is an umbrella term for a variety of disorders that cause the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain to shrink.

Since these areas are responsible for a person’s behavior, personality, and language, people affected with FTD can undergo dramatic behavioral changes that negatively affect themselves and their loved ones.

Since memory isn’t an issue at first and FTD tends to occur at a younger age than most other dementias (often between 40 and 75 years), dementia is often overlooked as a cause.

Getting an early and accurate diagnosis is key to managing future emotional, physical, and financial challenges, which is why we’ve put together a list of the 11 most common signs of Frontotemporal Dementias for you to be aware of:

1. Impulsive, inappropriate behaviors and speech:

Your frontal lobe, located behind your forehead, regulates your behaviors and impulses.

As FTD begins to affect this area of the brain, people might suddenly begin to say rude or mean things to others, or become entirely uninhibited in pleasure-seeking activities such as food, drinking, or sex.

2. Loss of interpersonal skills and/or empathy:

As FTD progresses, a person’s ability to see things from another person’s point of view diminishes.

A previously compassionate and caring person might suddenly be non-responsive to another’s distress, or may no longer correctly respond to common social cues.

3. Apathy

Often mistaken as depression, a person with FTD might become fairly withdrawn, self-centered, and emotionally distant.

4. Decreasing Self-Awareness & Personal Hygiene

A person affected by FTD will have less and less self-awareness as the disease progresses. A lack of concern about their personal appearance is common, making them appear increasingly unkept over time.

5. Lack of reasoning and logic (making poor decisions)

As the frontal lobe shrinks, a person’s ability to reason decreases while impulsivity increases, making it more likely for them to suddenly begin making unsafe or financially damaging decisions.

6. Repetitive Compulsive Behaviors

People living with FTD might develop Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), an anxiety disorder that is characterized by unwanted and repetitive thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that drive them ‘to do something’ (compulsions).

7. Inability to Plan or Concentrate

Planning requires us to be able to think in a step-by-step process.

When a person’s brain is affected by FTD, they are less and less able to concentrate and initiate steps to successfully sequence them (Step A => Step B => Step C, etc.).

8. Sudden and Frequent Mood Changes

A person with FTD might be sad one moment, and euphoric just a short while later. Erratic and unpredictable mood changes can occur as the brain change progresses.

9. Speech & Language Difficulties

Depending on the type of FTD, a person’s ability to verbalize and comprehend language can become increasingly challenging as the temporal lobes begin to change.

The affected person might speak very slowly, have trouble finding the right words, or be unable to name objects.

10. Balance & Movement Problems

Some types of FTD cause mobility problems similar to those observed with Parkinson’s disease.

These can include muscle weakness, balance issues, tremors, rigidity, muscle spasms, and poor coordination.

11. Memory Loss

Unlike Alzheimer’s disease, those living with FTD commonly don’t suffer from memory issues and are able to keep track of day-to-day events until the condition progresses into a more advanced stage.

Online Thunder

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2018, 08:00:56 AM »
Velika,

I certainly do not want to start an argument, but I have to take issue with something you said.

I don't see xyzcf telling people that many people reunite and have happy marriages.  At least I don't see it.
Of course we want to be optimistic because it can and does happen but if you read all the stories on here it's pretty plain to see there are not many who reunite. 

There may be more than we see because people usually leave after they have reunited, but still the odds aren't the best.
I'm hoping no one on here I telling people that.

Ok, back to the discussion on changes.  Just wanted to comment on that.  :)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2018, 08:32:42 AM »
Thunder, I don’t fault her for wanting to be optimistic, and this may genuinely be her own experience. I myself know three couples who reconciled following a type of “crisis,” and one that attempted to reconcile but ended up parting as friends.

But in no case was there the extreme behavior and personality changes, sudden cruelty or radical changes to looks so frequently described on this forum. In most case, any separation was temporary and the person in “crisis” had more self awareness and self control.

I think in these very radical cases, something very serious and possibly permanent is taking place. A very traumatized LBS is only going to hear the positives, especially if they had a good marriage, nice husband, and happy life.

My point is that telling peoooe that many people do go on to have happy marriages is overselling and also not taking into account the very wide spectrum of severity MLC can present as.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2018, 08:34:05 AM »
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125387566

Interesting article from NPR on — yes — how the skull shrinks with age.

I read an article that some thing bipolar could involve rapid aging. So perhaps this makes sense that we would notice accelerated changes to head structure as well.

Online Thunder

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2018, 09:00:45 AM »
I agree, what I meant was I don't see xyzcf telling people that.

I believe there are different type of MLCers.  Some, like mine, were not Monsters but his personality did definately change.  He was never a self-centered, selfish person but he sure got that way.  His emotions were turned off and he was cold.  He started flirting with women, something I never saw him do in the 30 years I knew him.
He was a stranger to me.

Now he is back to normal.  Selfishness gone, no more flirting, no more anything except maybe occasional, light depression.

But there are others who do Monster because of their depression.  That's what depressed men do.  Their angry and mean and lash out.

Just different people, I guess.

It takes years for them to come out of this depression.  If a couple reconcile under 2 years, it's probably more of a transition, not a real crisis.
Now can it be something more serious, of course.  I just don't believe it is that is common.

Definition of crisis:

 a : the turning point for better or worse in an acute disease or fever (maybe to your point)
 
b : a paroxysmal attack of pain, distress, or disordered function
 
c : an emotionally significant event or "radical change" of status in a person's life ·a midlife crisis


Ok I won't comment any more, Velika.  We just won't agree on this.   :)
Didn't mean to interrupt the discussion.  Sorry everyone.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Rising Phoenix

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 10:26:35 AM »
Not seen h for 6 mths so wouldn’t know but the last pictures I have of him you can’t see his eyes as he started wearing sun glasses all the time, half hearted smile but he seemed to have lost his neck. Def wider neck and yet thinner body. Xx
Me 50
H50
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Currently NC instigated by him as ow has balls in a vice!

Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2018, 03:12:40 PM »
But I would point out that if BVFTD shrinks the brain...leaving space within the skull..that somehow your body wouldn't automatically fill with fluids to cushion and protect it (as it will), which made your skull cave in a bit (which unless you have a degenerative bone disease seems unlikely) then... Your skull would get smaller...not wider right?!  ???

So from a biological standpoint...even if your brain DID shrink...and your skull somehow DID shrink...it certainly wouldn't WIDEN your face and neck...it would narrow the top of your head!

Correct.

The only things that could widen your face that are apparently obvious at this stage in life would be lifestyle (diet, drinking), hormones, or normal ageing processes that degenerate the skin (making it saggy) and a change in fat deposits of the face etc. Lack of sleep and increased stress would also attribute to ageing, and a slowing of your ability to heal damage etc.

Yes. For many, probably a mix of all that.

I also don't recall Xyzcf going around telling people that many reunite and have happy marriages.

Xyzcf always tells people to financially protect themselves and take good care of themselves. She is probably one of the few LBS that has had financial protection from the very start of her husband's crisis and has been able to lead a financially comfortable life.

But there are others who do Monster because of their depression.  That's what depressed men do.  Their angry and mean and lash out.

What some depressed men/men with a certain type of depression do. Jed Diamond even has a book called Mr Mean, about what he calls the Irritable Male Syndrome - the way men at midlife in crisis behave.

I have a mega monster one. Nasty, evil, horrible. Super high energy and super depressed.

Not all MLCers gain weight, some lose a lot of weight, end up being skeletal thin. A male friend of mine going through MLC has become that way. Like RF husband, he is also mostly always with sunglasses. When he is not, his normal intense, shinning eyes are dead.
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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2018, 07:50:56 PM »

Yes, Rising Phoenix: The frontal lobe is the filter. As it atrophies the back part of the brain (occipital) compensates, so they may become more sensitive to light and visual stimuli such as small cracks in the ceiling - tiny, once undetectable mars in the home. They may even take up painting or music. Many start wearing sunglasses or prefer to hole up in a darkened room.

The frontal lobe allows you to listen to someone talking to you at a music festival or at a cocktail party despite the background noise. It allows you to relish the demands of children and pets and family life. But when you can't filter out other conversations, smells, clanking of silverware, music, stimuli, kids' voices, barking, you must retreat to avoid an outburst. The frontal lobe is the last to develop and takes up most of the brain. It is your personality, humanity and emotions. The frontal lobe is the seat of civilization, the window to the soul. It lets you love.


Offline Reinventing

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2018, 04:09:58 AM »
I had not been understanding that bvFTD was thinking that people in a midlife crisis had Picks Disease. My mother died of Picks disease and I can assure you there is no coming back to normal as that disease progresses. Unless everyone here saw their spouses end up drooling, not knowing themselves or anyone else, trying to open car doors while the car is going down the highway, in diapers, and undressing themselves in public, then I think we are talking about bvFTD.

I am deeply sorry that someone in your life has bvFTD, but the progression of most people's spouses and former spouses on this site are not following this severe form of dementia.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 04:13:17 AM by Reinventing »

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2018, 09:22:25 AM »
Reinventing:

I think some spouses on here may have late-onset bipolar or some other psychiatric illness, but yes, I believe some here are in the very early stages of Pick's. Keep in mind disease duration can last up to 15 years and they remain in early stage for over half the duration. It is not until late stage when it is painfully obvious to everyone that they are ill.

A woman whose mother-in-law has Pick's thought she knew all about the disease. She was ready to leave her husband because he had grown distant from her, did not care about her. She thought maybe people really do change. It wasn't until she heard a neurologist speak on dementias other than Alzheimer's that she realized her husband was in the very early stage of ftd, confirmed through testing at a hospital. She said she hadn't known her mother-in-law in the years leading up to late stage so had missed the red flags.

My husband doesn't look sick or act sick. He is in very early stage, according to his doctor. People who didn't know my FH before would have no clue that the man I was with for 30 years no longer exists. No one would guess that he's terminally ill because he doesn't drool in a corner or wear adult protective garments - yet.

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2018, 09:49:02 AM »
Just joining....my H's face definitely got wider.  However, I know he put on weight and his beard was getting whiter that didn't help the appearance.  My D pulled up 2 picks from Christmas 17 and Christmas 16 and there was a world of difference.  Not only a fatter face but it was more stressed and definitely aged quite a bit in the year.   A past co-worker didn't recognize him at a function so he shaved his beard back to a got.  That helped some but he still had the wider face and stressed look.

When he went to the Dr in Jan he had gained about 25 pounds and is slowly working on it.  H says he is gonna exercise more and starts but doesn't keep it up.  Says he is going to eat better and starts but then goes out for fast food.


I do have a question regarding sunglasses (someone posted about this earlier)  I read somewhere else that MLCers start to wear sunglasses all the time...even in the evening and night when not needed.  I actually read that when they start to not wear them all the time is a possible sign of "awakening".   

Mine is not wearing sunglasses because he has regular glasses that need to be worn.  Has anyone else come across this as an oddity?   I found it interesting.
I choose to feel blessed.”
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No matter what....find a positive...no matter how small it is there is always a positive.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW (EA become PA approx. 2 mos prior)
BY 1966
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3/5/18 OW moved to another State  H moved in with F  
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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2018, 10:54:08 AM »
Samsed:

I think some of them wear sunglasses because they become hypervisual and sensitive to light. Others have a hard time filtering out sounds and actually start wearing noise suppression headphones. I've noticed many start wearing hats/caps all the time.

I think your husband is gaining weight due to his carb and sweet cravings. Some start eating fast food all the time; others may gorge on cookies, ice cream and chocolate.  Still others, as Anjae mentioned, lose a lot of weight, probably because of their rigid adherence to very limited food choices - such as eating only bananas, chicken breast or pj sandwiches.

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2018, 11:03:26 AM »
Not only is he not eating right, he became a huge couch potato.  Also I know the alcohol isn't helping him shed weight either.  Although he did give up beer and is drinking rum and DIET pepsi.   LMAO
I choose to feel blessed.”
I choose to feel grateful.
I choose to be excited.
I choose to be thankful.
I choose to be HAPPY.”

https://affaircare.com/the-180/

No matter what....find a positive...no matter how small it is there is always a positive.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW (EA become PA approx. 2 mos prior)
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32.5 years
Together 35 years
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support
3 Dogs - 1 was his baby that he left behind
Standing
No legal action yet
3/5/18 OW moved to another State  H moved in with F  
3/19/18  H moved home and is living in spare room  Reason:  Wasn't happy living with F and had an urge to want to be Home.  OW moved out of State.

Offline Reinventing

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2018, 11:15:18 AM »
bvFTD, I am concerned with you interpreting all these symptoms as Picks disease. Why are you not focusing on the Picks disease forums, where the discussions are how to help someone who forgot what they ate yesterday, who walks out of the house and gets lost, who forgets how to boil and egg? If the spouses on this site were rife with Picks disease we would be discussing the best way to childproof a home, walk with someone who forgot they had already been aroud the block, have the exact same conversation 20 times a day.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2018, 11:30:06 AM »
Quote
bvFTD, I am concerned with you interpreting all these symptoms as Picks disease. Why are you not focusing on the Picks disease forums, where the discussions are how to help someone who forgot what they ate yesterday, who walks out of the house and gets lost, who forgets how to boil and egg? If the spouses on this site were rife with Picks disease we would be discussing the best way to childproof a home, walk with someone who forgot they had already been aroud the block, have the exact same conversation 20 times a day.


I agree 100% Reinventing.

Applying a diagnosis to people who you do not know as well as not being qualified as a physician or other medical professional just adds to the confusion of people who are trying to learn what they can about MLC.

Why there is this continung message that many or most of the MLCers on Heros Spouse have some kind of degenerative brain disease boggles my mind.
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Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2018, 07:03:29 PM »
I think some of them wear sunglasses because they become hypervisual and sensitive to light.

It could be. I am hypersensitive to light, and even in cloudy/grey days I wear sunglasses. And there was a time, when I was still in the capital, that I was so light hypersensitive that, at times, I needed to wear sunglasses at night. It was weird, but my eyes couldn't handle the light. I have troubles with very bright, very white light, including indoors.

The weight loss could also be stress. It applies to Mr J when the lost a ton of weight. I also lost weight after BD during my little crisis. I would eat pretty much everything, but was always dancing and in movement, plus in a stress overload.

My friend that has lost a lot of weight, I suspect he eats well, when among friends, but not when he is on his onw. When he was not having a MLC he would eat well, he is a pretty good cook. 


There could be one or other person in HS whose spouse may have Pick's disease. Most do not. The stories of nearly all MLCer progress does not support it. MLCers change, but they do not degenerate like in Pick or any other degenerative disease.

Bipolar? Could be for some. MLC often mimics bipolar. Impossible to say for many until the crisis is over. Also, as it has been said often, having bipolar does not prevent someone from having MLC - Old Pilot's mother has bipolar and she had a MLC. MLC went away, bipolar is still there.

Even for a trained professional with a patient in front of them, many times it is not easy to diagnose bipolar (or several other psychiatry illnesses). It is not uncommon for an accurate bipolar diagnose to take 10 years. People can be diagnosed bipolar by a skilled professional and not be bipolar, and be diagonesed anothe mental illness and, in fact, be bipolar.

If only mental illness and its diagnose were so simple. They aren't. It is not even that easy to diagnose neurological illnesses/disorders.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Thunder

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2018, 07:32:39 PM »
I was even thinking there may be some MLCers who get into drugs or alcohol, so masking there eyes with sun glasses makes sense.

Ever seen red eyes of an alcoholic after a binge?   8)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2018, 07:36:45 PM »
Reinventing:

Because we are branching out. We on Pick's/FTD forums are doing our best to alert others to this common, under-recognized, horrific degenerative disease that hides so well because it's called so many other names.

That is why, Reinventing.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2018, 07:52:53 PM »
I was even thinking there may be some MLCers who get into drugs or alcohol, so masking there eyes with sun glasses makes sense.

That too.

My very thin friend that is having a MLC de drinks and dived into heroin. So, yes, nothing like hidding is before beautiful eyes.

Ever seen red eyes of an alcoholic after a binge?   8)

Yes, Mr J ones. Yikes. Mr J does not wear sunglasses. He never did. He wear glasses and never bought prescription sunglasses. From what I recall, because he does not like to have to chance glasses. But he could really use some sunglasses. The drinking, lack of sleep and endless hours inside a nighclub or bar djing - in Summer he will leave after sunrise hurt his eyes.

Even before MCL he used to complain, Lisboa has a very intense and bright, almost white light in Summer, it is known as the White City. I always told him, why not get prescription sunglasses? He never did.


But here we are not dealing with people/spouses with Pick's disease or FTD.

It is praisable to want to spread the word and draw attention for such terrible illnesses, but MLC is not a degenerative disease. It is not Pick's or FTD under another name, it is a very different thing.
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Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2018, 09:13:23 PM »
Applying a diagnosis to people who you do not know as well as not being qualified as a physician or other medical professional just adds to the confusion of people who are trying to learn what they can about MLC.

Yes, but the same can be said for "diagnosing" someone with MLC! There are several conditions that may present as "MLC" early on, but as Anjae pointed out, might require a high level of expertise and a period of time, to diagnose correctly.

I feel very strongly that it is wrong for forum members — and especially moderators — to discourage people from seeking medical advice. I read over and over people being told that it is futile because most MLCers don't think anything is wrong with them. This may be true (it is even true in bv's case, whose husband has a diagnosis but does not accept it). However, it is just as wrong to tell everyone who comes here that their spouse has MLC than it would be to tell everyone that their spouse has another illness or that they were just dealing with a personality disorder or exit affair.

Even if only a fraction of the people who come here are dealing with something outside of "MLC," then these suggestions and this information is valuable to their lives and to their families.

Quote
Why there is this continung message that many or most of the MLCers on Heros Spouse have some kind of degenerative brain disease boggles my mind.

There isn't a continuing message that many or most have degenerative brain disease. The continuing message is that they have MLC. bvFTD is controversial on this forum because she is trying to alert people about this poorly understood condition.

I am someone who immediately discounted a friend's suggestion (and BTW highly educated friend who is a member of a high court) that my ex might have bvFTD. Why? Because he wasn't acting in an obviously crazy way. But since bvFTD posted here, I have read more and even talked to a researcher at UCSF, and learned that she is right. A person can present these type of "low-level" symptoms over a long period of time and have FTD.

I think Anjae is also right that some people may be dealing with bipolar.

My advice is to look at the family history. My former SIL had very similar symptoms to my ex. Her ex husband, due to custody, finally was able to get permission to talk to her therapist and they have been divorced for some years. He told me that she was diagnosed with cyclothemia and possible bipolar at one point, but always took that as an excuse until my own ex (who had been a good friend of his) did this. It was only then that he began to realize his former spouse was actually very sick.

I have a very, very extreme MLCer with a definite family pattern spanning now four generations. Some people are dealing with more mild behaviors. A number of people's cases involve SSRI use around the time of onset. All these are important issues to keep in mind as you compare your story to others so as to best protect yourself, your children, and possibly even your ill spouse.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2018, 06:42:41 PM »
Velika:

Great points. I looked up a few days ago bipolar and ftd, and a fascinating paper from UCSF popped up.

My husband does not have the ftd gene (We don't think. He refused to take the genetic test his neurologist asked him to but there are no reports of these kinds of illnesses in his huge family.); However, in families that do have members who become ill at midlife UCSF has discovered that they can fall ill with a variety of illnesses, including schizophrenia, bipolar or ftd. Another gene causes MND/ALS or FTD or both.

Now, those are the illnesses passed on through genes. What causes sporadic illness?

Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2018, 07:13:59 PM »
Velika and bvFTD, the two of you have good intentions, but often are armchair experts in mental illness and neuroligical disorders.

For a start, schizophrenia and bipolar, for now, are mental illnesses. FTD is a neurological one. Also, schizophrenia, bipolar, depression aren't always genetic.

Being true that having a relative with schizophrenia increases the odds "It is of much interest, though, that the correlation of schizophrenia between identical twins, who have identical genomes, is less than one-half. This indicates that schizophrenia is NOT entirely a genetic disease." http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/hereditygen.htm

The case of homozygotic (identical) twins is one of the things that is studied in neuroscience/neurobiology/psychiatry that allows to know genes alone aren't the cause. There are more reasons why genes alone aren't the cause. It is, in fact, a classic. Same for bipolar.

There are no schizophrenia or bipolar in Mr J's family. But there is hyperthyroidism. I had a schizophrenia grand-aunt, a granfather and an aunt with mental illness whose diagnose I do not know. I suspect grandfather was borderline, aunt maybe as well (one is maternal, the other paternal, so, not connected), but it could also be bipolar. I don't have any of those illesses and I still had a MLC (very mild one). I am fine and never had any neurological degeneration.

Many different things cause sporadic illnesses.

It could even be a genes alteration, but that does mean it comes from family. Our genes alter according to the ambient we live in and it may have nothing to do with our family. This issues are far more complex than the two of you lead to think.

Often, not even the best experts know exactly what causes illness Z or X. If it was tryly known what caused schizophrenia and bipolar, it would be possible to treat/cure them. So far, it isn't.
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Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2018, 07:56:34 PM »
Anjae:

Please, do not demean us by calling us "armchair experts." You are way behind current, exciting research.

Thank you.


Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2018, 08:08:16 PM »
I am sorry, but you both are armchair experts. You pick random articles that none of you seems to truly understand, speak of matters you do not master or have studied and never answer the questions you are asked.

To this day, we would all like to know how you and Velika explain how someone that according to you is having a neurological degenerative disorder, once MLC is over, becomes normal again. You also always dismiss, or don't even bother to read, when I, Ready2 and others say we have had a MLC of our own. We are fine, none of those catastrophic you've said happens to MLCer happened to us. Nor did they happened to other LBS on HS that have had a MLC. Nor to my cousin that has had a MLC, etc.

You may be way behind current, exciting research. That does not mean you understand it, are able to correlate or diferenciate it.

I gave you a simple example, schizophrenia. According to you, and Velika, it is genetic. Not always, as anyone familiar with schizophrenia knows. If it was, homozygotic (identical) twins would always both have it. That is not the case.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to stick to Pick's disease forums, bvFTD. People here are not dealing with Pick's, that, unlike what you say, is not a common disease. That alone makes you an armchair expert. Also, on average, people with Pick's live 2-8 years, but the degeration is terrible. That does not match the reality of MLCer spouses.

If it did, pretty much everyone here would have a spouse with severe neurological degeneration. We don't.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2018, 08:32:25 PM »
Dear Anjae:

Your information is very outdated. Pick's can last up to 17 years, even 20.  It is only in very late stage, after complete and utter destruction of marriage, family, finances and career that it may be diagnosed, although in most cases, it never is because no one's heard of it, these poor people die homeless on the streets, alone or on prison. It is usually a painfully slow degenerative disease of around 10 to 13 years unless MND rears its ugly head.

As far as schizophrenia, there may be a gene primed for the disease, but not everyone who has the gene will develop schizophrenia. So too with Huntington's Disease which definitely has a genetic component. There is a 50% you can get this horrific disease because it is in your genes. I know of a family with 4 children whose mother died of Huntington's, but not one child got it, thankfully.

I don't understand why so many of you try to muzzle us when we are theorizing instead of contributing.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2018, 09:09:06 PM »
bvFTD:
Quote
I don't understand why so many of you try to muzzle us when we are theorizing instead of contributing.

Anjae has answered this and it has been stated many, many times:

Quote
To this day, we would all like to know how you and Velika explain how someone that according to you is having a neurological degenerative disorder, once MLC is over, becomes normal again. You also always dismiss, or don't even bother to read, when I, Ready2 and others say we have had a MLC of our own. We are fine, none of those catastrophic you've said happens to MLCer happened to us. Nor did they happened to other LBS on HS that have had a MLC. Nor to my cousin that has had a MLC, etc.

MLC is NOT a degenerative neurological disorder.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2018, 09:36:34 PM »
I said on average. Check post #49 on this thread or below. Please read what I write. That is the average. Like MLC it can last longer. But, Picks, longer or not longer, would show signs of obvious degeneration that MLCers do not have.

Also, on average, people with Pick's live 2-8 years, but the degeration is terrible.

You should also mind and pay attention when someone like Reinventing wrote on this thread, post #34, that her mother died of Pick's. She left clear what/how is it to have Pick's. What was your answer to her?

Reinventing:

I think some spouses on here may have late-onset bipolar or some other psychiatric illness, but yes, I believe some here are in the very early stages of Pick's. Keep in mind disease duration can last up to 15 years and they remain in early stage for over half the duration. It is not until late stage when it is painfully obvious to everyone that they are ill.

A woman whose mother-in-law has Pick's thought she knew all about the disease.

Really, bvFTD, you're lecturing someone whose mother's died of Pick's on what Pick's is and how it unfolds? You do treat us all like idiots, even those of us who had to deal with those terrible ilnesses.

You are not theorizing. You state. And do it on newbies, and not so newbies threads. You don't say, it may be, you say, things like there is no MLC, it is this terrible disease called FTD or, now, it seems Pick's disease. Which aren't the same thing. So, how come, first it was FTD and now is Pick's?

Same with Velika, even if Velika is milder. But Velika also doen't believe in MCL. Or better, Velika kind of swings with the latest fashion.

Thank you, bvFTD now you just told me what I have said about schizophrenia.

Nothing wrong with being open minded, but some things do not add up, are illogical and don't match what we observe in our spouses, or have observed in ourselves while and after MLC.

You still haven't explained how someone that is having a degenerative neurological disorder, like I had, since I had MLC, wents back to normal when the crisis is gone. Went back to normal is not going to happen with FTD or Pick's. So, what is your explanation for MLCers going back to normal once the crisis is over if they are having a neurologic degenerative disorder?

MLC is NOT a degenerative neurological disorder.

I know, but I want to hear bvFTD and Velika's explanation. 

Aftwards, do you think you can gives us a break, let HS be for those of us with a spouse in MLC, and go back to the Pick's and FTD foruns?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 06:00:49 AM »
Seems to me there are a couple of issues here:

- bvftd's understandable wish to highlight a little-known disease because of her own experience
- all of us struggling to identify from a distance the 'cause' of an often dramatic change in the behaviour of a spouse, and what we can/should do in adapting to it
- the difficulty, and diverse views, even amongst 'professionals' on diagnosing mental, emotional, personality and neurological disorders with consistency and the variations in treatment methodologies
- the purpose of this site and the support people are seeking at different stages as an LBS, as well as their individual situations and challenges

As a guiding principle, it seems to me that we serve each other less well if we make black/white statements, tell others what to do or seem to be assuming that our situation is a 'to do' guide for anyone else. Offering thoughts or experience up for someone else to chew on is quite different.

We are ready and able to hear and process different things at different stages, and more vulnerable at some times than at others. That can sometimes mean we reject things, filter them or displace our own emotions here. Ive certainly done so! Hence the odd spat and normal diversity in viewpoints.

Few LBS are in a position to influence their spouse to seek professional or medical help of any kind, particularly in the early stages of a crisis post-BD. If we were, we would also be able to influence other choices they make! It seems a bit unkind to tell an LBS who is already feeling helpless and confused to 'get' their spouse to a specific type of medical assessment when they are already struggling with unusual behaviour from someone they've known for many years.

Each of us will reach our own judgement on whether we have an MLC spouse or not; some of us will be wrong. The one thing that seems clear about an MLC/identity crisis is that it is not a permanent deteriorating condition for most people but does take a number of years. Most of us will probably only 'know' if it is MLC with time and hindsight.

By all means, let's welcome debate on these wider issues. The one thing any LBS gets to soon is the acceptance of the many things they can't/don't know! For myself, I would prefer that to be kept to stand-alone discussion threads and presented as one option amongst many rather than it being posted as an action/solution on story threads, particularly for reeling newbies. An opt-in debate like this thread rather than an opt-out perhaps?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:03:41 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 07:11:26 AM »
By all means, let's welcome debate on these wider issues. The one thing any LBS gets to soon is the acceptance of the many things they can't/don't know! For myself, I would prefer that to be kept to stand-alone discussion threads and presented as one option amongst many rather than it being posted as an action/solution on story threads, particularly for reeling newbies. An opt-in debate like this thread rather than an opt-out perhaps?

Thank you T.  As a newbie I attached due to the title and could relate to things my H was going through.  I would like to hear more on other's experiences regarding this topic.

Although I feel the other info is valid, I would prefer to it to be under another title so I could get info there when I am ready or need it vs through this thread.
I choose to feel blessed.”
I choose to feel grateful.
I choose to be excited.
I choose to be thankful.
I choose to be HAPPY.”

https://affaircare.com/the-180/

No matter what....find a positive...no matter how small it is there is always a positive.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW (EA become PA approx. 2 mos prior)
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32.5 years
Together 35 years
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support
3 Dogs - 1 was his baby that he left behind
Standing
No legal action yet
3/5/18 OW moved to another State  H moved in with F  
3/19/18  H moved home and is living in spare room  Reason:  Wasn't happy living with F and had an urge to want to be Home.  OW moved out of State.

Offline VelikaTopic starter

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 05:36:44 PM »
Anjae, I feel there is a constant, nonsensical loop on this topic.

Pick's is the older name for bvFTD. Some researchers think that a variety of illness should fall under the umbrella term "Pick's Complex." My sister is a researcher who works studying bvFTD. She confirmed to me much of what bv has written here, not just about what bvFTD is thought to be, but also in many ways how little is known about it. This was also echoed to me by a researcher I talked to at UCSF.

bv does not strike me as thinking she knows more than others. I think she is just trying to understand what has happened to her husband, and, like many of us, suspected that it was not just a "crisis." When I looked up bvFTD I found a lot of overlap information that was helpful. Same with bipolar and NPD.

You keep saying that I am moved by the latest fashion but this isn't true. I'm just very curious about what happened. My ex had behavior pattern consistent with five generations in his family now. You can imagine that I look at my beautiful son and will do anything I can to understand.

I have stated many times that I think that MLC is an umbrella term. It seems to follow a pattern and part of that pattern involves physical changes. Maybe if we look at the consistencies between MLC and what is known about other illnesses, we can find some clues. Perhap we are looking at a much bigger story!

In any event, I think the consistency between physical changes is intriguing, especially regarding the sunglasses. Curiously, I have two neighbors who fit the pattern of "MLC." (One, I can't mention by name, was actually a one-hit wonder from the '90s.) They both constantly, constantly wear sunglasses. Even at night.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 07:29:48 PM »
Getting back to the subject of your thread regarding body changes:

Anyone notice a droopy eye or hair loss?  My husband had the most beautiful eyes and full head of hair until onset. I think whatever they are going through takes a terrible toll.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2018, 07:34:07 PM »
Also wanted to mention the expressionless face. I think it takes a lot of effort for him to smile so it comes off as a smirk or grimace.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2018, 03:02:18 AM »
Yesterday when I went to collect my MLCer for our family day out at about 11 am...

He opened the door then recoiled from the light outside as if he was Count Dracula about to burst into ash.

We are in Scotland so it isn't like this is Arizona sun or something.  ::)

He then wore sunglasses the entire time he was outside...It really wasn't that bright at all.

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 03:33:00 AM »
H’e smile is almost always forced when u can get him to smile. The other day I looked at him when he smiled and it almost seemed like half the muscles were not working.   So forced.

The sunglasses thing amazes me. I read on another site that not wearing sunglasses all the time is a sign of starting to heal.   Will be interesting to find more info on this.

It is intriguing
I choose to feel blessed.”
I choose to feel grateful.
I choose to be excited.
I choose to be thankful.
I choose to be HAPPY.”

https://affaircare.com/the-180/

No matter what....find a positive...no matter how small it is there is always a positive.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW (EA become PA approx. 2 mos prior)
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32.5 years
Together 35 years
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support
3 Dogs - 1 was his baby that he left behind
Standing
No legal action yet
3/5/18 OW moved to another State  H moved in with F  
3/19/18  H moved home and is living in spare room  Reason:  Wasn't happy living with F and had an urge to want to be Home.  OW moved out of State.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Head, Neck, and Body Changes
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2018, 06:44:44 PM »
University of Pennsylvania, School of Medicine:

Patients with ftd showed thinning if the outer retina - the layers with the photoreceptors - through which we see.

The retina is affected by neurodegenerative disorders because it is a projection of the brain.

"The Eyes Are the Window to the Soul" - William Shakespeare

"The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter." - Cicero

Matthew 6:22-23

22  The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, they whole body shall be full of light.

23  But if thine eye be evil, the whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in the darkness, how great is the darkness!

 

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