Author Topic: My Story Trying to figure things out...  (Read 3645 times)

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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My Story Trying to figure things out...
« on: March 01, 2018, 09:20:57 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I'm new here, but my Bomb Drop day was September 14, 2017.  Is it a bomb drop if I discovered the affair through phone records?  Anyway, it's been over five months now and I'm just as confused as ever.  It's taken me a little while to figure out that I think my WH is having a midlife crisis.  
We got married in 1997.  I was 22 and he was 24.  The following year, we moved 2000 miles away from our family to start a new life in another state because he would make more money as a cop than he did back home and we also had our first son in 1999.  It was a heck of a start to a marriage as we were really, really not ready to have a baby!  In the beginning of 2000, he met someone at work and I suspected they had an affair but I never had proof.  He especially was not ready to be a dad and was not spending any time at home with me and the baby during the time I suspected an affair.  I had enough so I packed the baby up, moved back home, bought a condo, and got a job.  He followed shortly thereafter and after me being extremely distant for about a year, we got back together and had another baby in 2002.  We ended up moving back in 2003 so he could get his old job after landing himself in a "quit or be fired" situation at a police department back home. 
Things were good for a long time.  Really good.  Then, in 2011 he was suspended from the police department for lying.  After a long, drawn out battle, he was fired in in the beginning of 2016.  Even though he is now self-employed, he has never recovered from losing his job.  He also began having an emotional affair in May of 2016 with the same girl I suspected he was having an affair with when we were first married. By the way, she is now a Lieutenant on the police department, has been married and divorced twice, and has two young kids.  He says they only ever kissed, but I don't believe it and it doesn't even matter at this point.  The emotional aspect is way worse to me anyway. 
He had rented a condo in July before I even knew he was having an affair.  He did tell me in March that he thought he might want a divorce and things were strained between us, but I never saw any of this coming.  He moved into his condo right after I found out about the affair and then moved back home on October 25th.  He stayed through the holidays and moved back to his condo on January 30th.  Things got progressively worse with us living together.  I don't trust him at all and he didn't want to live "under a microscope" for the rest of his life.  I also found out that he is still in contact with the woman he had (is having?) an affair with because she bought two houses in Detroit and he is rehabbing them for her.  (He spends a lot of time in Detroit doing this kind of work for lots of people.  We live nowhere near Detroit so he travels a lot.)  He swears that everything ended with them in September, but how can I believe him?  I can't.  They are still in contact.  He promises it's just because he's going to fix up the houses so they need to communicate minimally.  He said that he won't do anymore houses for her, but he feels bad because they made these plans when he thought he was going to leave me.  He also insists that he was never leaving me "for her" but he just thought things couldn't work in our marriage because I was so mad and angry at him all the time.  It is true I was going through some depression problems and told him things like "our marriage is a joke" and I'm moving back home with or without you.  He didn't completely rewrite our history, but the timeline of me being "mean" to him seems to correspond to the exact same time he started his affair.    
Anyway, I just don't know what to do next.  I am trying to distance myself from him, but that's been hard.  We text all day long and when he is in town I see him a few times a week.  Either he comes over to the house to hang out on dates and we usually have a pretty good time!  I feel like we both take turns initiating seeing each other or texting.  I may pursue him a little more than he does me, but I am really trying hard not to do that.  He truly doesn't ever seem to see this other woman.  The kids were with him two of the three weeks we've been separated (he's been in Detroit the rest of the time) so I know he wasn't with her then.  The week I had the kids we talked and texted so much that I don't see when he would've been with her.  (I may have driven by his condo once or twice to check and see if he was home too  :-\ and he was.) I know an affair is only part of a midlife crisis now after finding this site, but I am still hung up on that part of it.  
I am staying busy.  I work full time as a teacher, I joined a gym, I have lost a lot of weight which is a good thing, I started going back to church, I joined a small group from my church, and I make plans to see friends at least once a week.  I've taken control of my finances (he used to take care of that) and I have a good system going here at home with taking care of keeping things running.  I am still hyper focused on trying to save my marriage though and what to do next.  If anyone has any advice to share, I would really appreciate hearing from people who have been through this kind of thing!!!!!  Thanks!!!!!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 09:23:22 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2018, 01:30:29 PM »
I'm having a rough day today so I figured I'd post again.  Weekends are always hardest.  It takes all my energy to get through the week with working full-time, going to the gym, getting dinner on the table for my teenage boys, and all the rest of it that goes along with keeping up a house.  I went out with friends last night and I just have no energy or ambition to do much today.

My husband and I were texting late last night and all day today so far.  The conversation took a turn with me telling him that maybe he needs to pursue an all-out relationship with the woman he had an affair with.  He said that is not something he is considering at all at the moment.  At the moment.  Those words hurt.  I told him that he is living in limbo wondering if he wants to be with me or not, and even though he claims it has nothing whatsoever to do with her, I think it does.  I told him he can't compare an affair fantasy to a 20 year marriage.  All I got in return was "Affair fantasy?  Where do you even come up with this stuff.  It wasn't like that at all." 

I know I am obsessing and it's not a good thing.  We have been separated since January 30th, but I found out about his affair on September 14th.  He doesn't seem to see her ever and he swears he hasn't seen her since well before me finding out about their affair.  I know they talk and text sporadically and that's because he's doing work on houses she bought.  I just don't understand their relationship.  Did she cut him off since he promised her he was getting divorced, hasn't filed yet, and has been back and forth with me since September?  Did he cut things off with her?  Does it even matter why it happened?  All I know is in September he was telling her he loves her and now they don't see each other.  It makes no sense.  Everyone says they must just be better at hiding their affair, but I truly don't think that's the case.  He was seriously home every night and now that he has his condo the kids are there every other week.  He never goes out when they are there and he seems to be home even when the kids are with me.  He will either call, text, come over, or we will go out on dates.  I'm not sure an answer to this question will even help me, but I can't get it out of my mind.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Kintsugi

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2018, 02:37:52 PM »
So sorry you are going through this.  I am glad that you are exercising self care (or what we call here GAL).  It is important that you take care of yourself.  There is a saying about not being able to pour from an empty cup.  You need to take care of you for you and also for your sons. 
When the Japanese mend broken objects, they aggrandize the damage by filling the cracks with gold.  They believe that when something’s suffered damage and has a history it becomes more beautiful ~ Barbara Bloom

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2018, 05:18:35 PM »
Thanks, Kintsugi... I'm trying to take care of myself.  Haven't done a thing today besides laundry and now I'm about to make dinner for my kids.  I guess some days are just like that.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Anjae

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2018, 07:40:41 PM »
Hello and welcome, DaybyDay

Is it a bomb drop if I discovered the affair through phone records?

Yes, it is still Bomb Drop.

Try to take it easy on yourself. Is there anyway your teenage boys can help with some house tasks?

Don't tell your husband what he needs to do regarding his relationship with the OW. Stay away from anything that has to do with him and her. Don't tell him about affair fantasy, or any similar thing. And do not tell him he is having a midlife crisis.

Read and re-read the articles and blog post on the may site. Read the resources section: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?board=34.0

The affair may still go on, it may have ended, or who knows what is going on. Not, it does not matter why it may have ended if it did.  Also, MLCers often lie. Or they end an affair, and, later, there is another one. Impossible to know what will happen.

Focus on yourself and the kids. That is all you can do.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 07:56:50 PM »
Thanks, Anjae... I appreciate your response.  When this first happened, I asked him if he was having some kind of midlife crisis and he blew his top.  I didn't think of it again until more recently and as I read up on it I started to realize that it sounds exactly like a midlife crisis.  I won't mention it to him again.

I did ask about his OW today though.  I told him I feel like he is stuck in limbo and that maybe it would help if he went full tilt into an a relationship with her.  I told him I thought he was hesitant in our marriage because he was comparing 20 years to a brand new relationship and the only way he may know what he wants is if he finds out what it's like to be in a real relationship and not an affair.  He was completely surprised by that.  He didn't answer me either way though.  I didn't figure he really would, but he's been very "talkative" over text today.  Not talking about that, but just about everything else in general.  I really don't know why I decided to say that to him, but it is kind of what I think.  I don't want that to happen, but I've read a lot about men going off to their OW and then realizing that's not what they want.  Maybe that's where my head was.  Not sure. I think I will stay away from that subject until he brings it up now though.

My boys have been pretty helpful.  The youngest one, 15, is actually really stepping up.  He sees that the garbage needs to go out and he does it, etc.  My oldest, 18, is still in his own ego-centric world.  He will help if I specifically ask him to though.  I think they're still just trying to figure out the new normal too. 



Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Anjae

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 08:48:35 PM »

You're welcome.

I know, I read it on your previous post. The thing is, it will not be a relationship, it would still be an affair, just in the open. She would still be OW.

It is true many men go the OW and realise it is not what they wanted. But if you read around the threads, you will also see that does not mean they will leave OW and come back home willing to work on the marriage. Or they may leave one OW and find another.

In fact, many of us have spouses who left many years ago and who are still with OW/OM (be it the first, 2dn, 3tr and so on). Take Mr J. He left nearly 12 years ago (mid October 2006) when he was involved with OW1. Like your husband, he and OW1 lived apart, and pretty much only saw each other on weekend ends. That affair lasted less than 18 months in the open. Did he come back/wanted to work on the marriage? No, we got OW2, who has been around for 10 years come August, and they have been living together for 9 years come December.

Mr J doesn not stand OW2 (he once told me, I didn't ask. In fact, I never asked a thing about her). Yet, there he still is, getting ready to buy a dead expensive flat in our capital with her. On the surface it does not make sense, but he has caused so many damages, including financial and legal ones, the latter arranged by OW2, that he is stuck with her. At least until he finds some way of breaking with her. But who knows if that will be the end, of if there will OW3.

My boys have been pretty helpful.  The youngest one, 15, is actually really stepping up.  He sees that the garbage needs to go out and he does it, etc.  My oldest, 18, is still in his own ego-centric world.  He will help if I specifically ask him to though.  I think they're still just trying to figure out the new normal too.

It will also not be easy on the boys. Glad to know they hare helpful around the house.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 12:22:18 AM »
I'm so sorry that you're here, Day, but hope that it will help you cope and adjust and move through it.

A lot of us here are 'fixers'...and someone else's crisis is a situation beyond our pay grade. In a funny way, I see your comments to your H as being a kind of 'reverse fixing' because you're assuming you know best, and that he will be influenced by what you think and say.

It's a tough road to start retraining our old habits and assumptions, but the starting place is to assume that there is NOTHING you can say or do that will affect his choices or his path through this. So, you have to find your own way to stop trying to do that....to let it be, to let him be...but use those fine fixing skills to figure out how to protect you and your family from the predictable unpredictability of his crisis.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 01:20:28 PM »
Wow! Treasur, thanks for commenting.  You are absolutely right.  I never considered that what I said to him was controlling.  I can totally see where you're coming from.  It is really hard to accept that there is nothing I can say or do to fix what's going on, but I know you are right.  I've known it since the beginning of all of this and yet my mind still keeps spinning thinking there's got to be something that I can do.  Patience is not a virtue I have, but I guess I better get working on that. 

I keep focusing on the OW too, and I know I shouldn't be doing that either.  If it wasn't her, it would have been someone else.  I just keep thinking that I could feel "secure" that things will work out between me and H if I knew for sure she was out of the picture.  My brain knows that's not necessarily true too, but my heart is not agreeing.  He moved out right after BD and was gone for five weeks.  He was back for a couple of months and then left again January 30.  The whole time he was back home it was so strained and a lot of it was my fault.  I kept questioning him, where he was, what he was doing, who he was talking to... playing detective every chance I got.  I didn't think he was doing enough to make me feel like he wanted our marriage to work and looking back I can see that it was probably way too soon for him to have come back anyway.  Neither one of us were ready.  I can't help but feel like I want to ask him to come home again soon.  I know I should wait for it to be his idea though so that will be my biggest obstacle. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 01:44:23 PM »
Yes, definitely read what others have to say..
I was and still am in the same place..Some days are better than others
H left - came home - left again - came home - and left February 8th. OW has been in the picture for quite some time.
She's just as broken as he.
However, focus on you and the kids..no more questions, concerns, OW thoughts, thinking you can fix it. Those are the hardest of them all to get passed.
But one day at a time and only be in the moment. No future talks, R talks M talks..it gets you no where. I've been where you are and numerous times. I thought well if I could just tell him "THIS" he will listen to my way. Nope..Still did it..

I'm learning slowly but surely. Every day is a new one.
Read and read some more...it's amazing the strength you can get just by reading and understanding.
Be strong...this will be the longest ride...on a roller coaster that you never asked to be on. <---best sentence I read when i first came here :)
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 04:48:58 PM »
 Hi Smiling, thanks for your response.  It sounds like we are in a very similar situation.  Well, aren't we all?? :)  I want to copy what you wrote about living in the moment and not asking any more questions and glue it to my forehead so I see it every time I look in the mirror.  I HAVE to remember to do that and some days I just don't think I am capable.  My brain has become my own worst enemy. 

Do you and your H still talk now that he's moved out again?  Is he actively involved with the OW?  How do you know she is just as broken?  Sorry for all the questions... I am just curious to see how you're handling things since maybe I can learn from you.  My H's OW doesn't seem to be broken.  Well, she's been divorced twice and had a baby with her second husband 5 years after divorcing him and taking him to court for a million different things after their divorce was final.  Maybe I can guess that she might be a little broken.  She has a good job though and lives in a really nice house.  I guess she was also ok with dating a married man (even though H told her it was over, we were getting divorced, etc.).  Anyway, here I am... back to obsessing.  Need to stop that!!!!!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 05:07:43 PM »
Oh lets see , on H's good days he will text. Right now I haven't heard from him in 3 days. Last time I heard from him he was more concerned over a doorknob I might have busted then how I was..Ow is 11 years older than him. She left her 25 yr marriage (after having two affairs) and 4 kids to come clear to our state a few times before moving here. Packed up all her stuff and joila' here she is. H used to tell me in between him coming home and leaving that he has told her to go away a few times. Well obviously she didn't get the message. This last time he came home he supposedly ended it. But she said she was staying..Meh..He left 4 months later..I was a disaster...a mess...couldn't deal with it again. I mean you would think I would have since it happened so many times prior. But nope..he made me believe that we were really working on things...H is currently living with her. As he told me the other day "we are roommates" shrugged his shoulders and said "we get along"..So of course I spouted out well I get along with a lot of people I work with doesn't mean I want to sleep with them or live with them. lol
It's a little easier now..Every day is new..Living in the moment and remembering everything that I Have learned. You can't fix them. They are going through their own turmoil. Any questions, concerns, R or M talks is all pressure..
I told H that I wasn't in charge of rectifying his relationship with S. That he needed to do that. He then wouldn't help his son out with a little cash for the week. Yep..That's how they are..
Live in the moment. That's all you can do. It's a nightmare but believe it or not...You will make it..I know it doesn't seem like it. But you will. I started focusing on my own "adventure". What can I do during this time that will make me succeed. To do it for myself and nobody else.
Remember, you can't make their choices or decisions. You can't baby them, mother them or tell them what you think should be done. Don't evn mention the MLC either. I remember doing that as well and he told OW that is what I said he was going through.
Maybe some day she will be smart and look it up. I also look at the fact I am in charge of myself. I don't have to worry about the lies the deceit or the egg shell walking when he was here..I'm only in charge of me. That actually is a lot of relief.
It will be ok...it sucks..But it will be ok...Just live YOUR life..Not his..You can't fix it. Be the change you wish to see in others...
Hugs to ya!
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 06:17:28 PM »
Oh Smiling, sounds like you've been through a lot.  It is kind of nice to have him out of the house because I am not as stressed out and the kids and I are finding our new normal.  I just don't get what goes through the minds of these OW.  No way I would move to a new state to be with a man who is married and keeps going back to his wife.  What the heck??  He really is affairing down, of that you have no worry. 

I am trying to figure out how to live my life.  It's a big change since I have been married for half my life and I really don't know what my life is without him.  THAT is a big problem that I am trying to figure out.  Luckily I am a teacher and love my job, my two kids keep me busy, I joined a gym, I started going back to church, I joined a small group from church that meets weekly, and I go out with other various friends at least once a week.  That's about all I can handle at the moment.  Maybe that's enough for me to do now.  Learning how to be alone with my thoughts is a lot of work and it wears me out.

Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 06:32:05 PM »
Your thoughts will get you.. but remember they are just plays going on in your head...I used to do 30 second hate thoughts..I allowed myself 30 seconds to think all the bad things and then I would stop... it definitely helps...
S and I are doing the same... just finding our normal...I don't think I have sat in any part of the house other than my room... but I did manage to clean today so that's a step up..
Just remember live in the moment... look at your feet and see where they are... in the moment... allow yourself to feel the emotions and work through it... just don't stay there too long...
It's good that you are getting out.. my bf has started making plans for me lol... I'm ok with that, but sometimes I like the coming home and just relaxing..
You'll be ok... just keep reading.... reflecting... working on you!
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Offline FearNot

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2018, 07:17:22 PM »
Attaching DaybyDay! I'm sorry that you here with the rest of us but there is a lot of good advice and information to be had. It sounds like you've been through the ringer! Give yourself time to gain strength, courage and knowledge. Nothing about this process is a quick and every day brings new thoughts and emotions. The monkey braining is tough to deal with. Our thoughts take us to places that we need to avoid, but that takes time to learn to control and some days it seems like you can't, but you will  :) Trying to understand the why's and rationalize MLC is impossible, there's nothing rational about it. Hang in there and use your thread to vent.

Hugs and Prayers,
FN
M 46
H 40
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 04:11:16 PM »
Hi FearNot, thanks for responding.  Monkey brain... that is such an accurate description.  It never turns off!  Well, it is getting a little better but I do struggle not letting my thoughts get the best of me.  I hope one day I do get control of it.

What's attaching mean?  Is there something you do to follow certain threads besides just look for them in the forum?
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 04:49:02 PM »
When you respond there is a little box off to the left click on that and you can follow the thread of your choice..

Attaching :)
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2018, 08:07:30 PM »
Does anyone think that sometimes it does more harm than good to see a counselor?  Mine told me today that I should contact the OW since I don't believe my husband when he says "it's over" with her.  I've never heard anyone advise that is a good idea!  Plus, I leave there feeling worse about things and like I am an idiot for sticking around waiting to see what happens. 

Do marriages survive affairs and MLC?  I keep looking for positive stories and I'm not seeing many.  This has not been a good day for me emotionally.  Maybe I need to get off the internet for a while. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline FearNot

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »
Day,

There are stories of reconciliation, but it's a tough road. Check out BTG Movement. It is faith based, but even if it's not your thing faith wise, read their story. I tend to search "Stand for your marriage" on you tube, or google and it leads me to some positive stuff :)

The contacting the OW... that sounds like a bad idea, but I am no expert. If you feel you're not getting out of your counselor what you need, perhaps there is someone who is better suited. Sometime the first one you see is not the one you click with!!
M 46
H 40
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 10:30:58 AM »
In MLC, I think contacting ow is always almost a mistake - gives her power, demeans you, can kick off crazy and no reason to expect she'd do anything but lie anyway. On the wider issue of 'knowing'...being marriage police would be a miserable way to live and where would it stop? Next ow? A female boss? Someone he smiles at in a shop? Insanity. Trust your gut to know and let your spouse carry the weight of figuring out how/if he/she earns your trust back as they were the one who broke their promise to you and your trust.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 05:28:52 PM »
Thanks, FearNot and Treasur!  I agree that contacting the OW is a bad idea.  I think I need a new counselor.  I've never seen one before really and I didn't know what to expect, but I just feel like I'm throwing my money away every week. 

Definitely checking out the BTG movement.  Faith is definitely my thing and all that is bringing me through this so far.  Thanks for that suggestion!!!

I also agree that playing marriage police is not a good idea.  Not that the husband is doing much to make me feel secure in our marriage since he is so ambivalent about us and not truly breaking ties with OW... but I'm tired of looking over my shoulder all the time and speculating over every single thing.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 09:32:25 PM »
Trust your gut on your IC too, Day...find a different one that challenges you but in a way which feels right
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Anjae

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 09:55:39 PM »
Contacting OW is a terrible idea. Nothing good can come of it.

Trust your gut on your IC too, Day...find a different one that challenges you but in a way which feels right

Second and agree.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline FearNot

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 11:24:35 AM »
Check out Rejoice Marriage Ministries as well. Lots of great information there as well  :D. Someone on here suggested that one to me, and I read their devotion daily!

M 46
H 40
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 04:52:30 PM »
Thank you all for your responses.  It really helps to read them!  I'm really tired today and I always have a hard time dealing with my emotions when I'm tired.  It's been a rough day.  Nothing in particular happened.  Husband is still out of town working and we haven't had any fights.  Still text daily and I haven't made any other "discoveries" of any kind. 

I'm just still focused on the OW and wondering if H is stringing us both along.  Wondering if he's pretending to kind of try to make it work so that he can look back and tell the kids that he did all he could.  Keeping hope alive that maybe he does want things to work out but he's not sure it's possible.  I'm not either actually, but I still want to try.  His cousin messaged me the other day and asked me to send her daughter a post card because their preschool project is to get as many different post cards from as many different places as possible.  I picked one up today and then had a moment when I wondered how to sign it.  I don't know if she knows we are separated or if I should sign his name to it too.  Stupid things like that are making me trigger today and I'm trying to keep a happy face and not let my kids know or him.  Ugh!  I know it sounds stupid in light of all the things I have faced, and everyone else on this board has faced, but it's getting to me today.  Maybe tomorrow will be better.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline FearNot

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 05:22:30 PM »
When we are tired, are defenses are down. Dealing with this is exhausting and nothing particular needs to happen to make it a rough day. Some days are just tougher than others. That's perfectly normal. Tomorrow is a new day!

January 4th was when it was confirmed that my H was definitely, undeniably involved with someone else. I have spent a lot of energy focusing on them over the last couple months, but as the days go by, it's less and less. It does get easier, but it is a conscious action to not do it!! Is he stringing you both along, well, you have a choice as to whether or not he strings you along. The OW... she'll have to figure that out for herself. As for the pretending, it's what they do best. Reality isn't something that the MLC'er is able to face. They don't have that capacity. Sad but true.

Those little triggers can be difficult to deal with. I can't honestly say what I would sign if I was in your position. Maybe just write something like "from  DaybyDay1 family" and not sign individual names?

Hugs to you, sorry your day is rough!
M 46
H 40
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 06:16:51 PM »
Probably the wrong thing to do, but I told him that his cousin wanted me to send a postcard and should I sign his name or not.  His response was, "Really?  No one knows I moved out unless you told them."  So, I signed all of our names.  Made another mistake and said "Am I wrong in thinking this is a temporary or trial separation?  Moved out sounds so permanent."  He responded with, "You know what I mean, sheesh.  My point is the only people that know anything are the ones you told."  He moved out for the second time on January 30th since we were not getting along at all.  At the time, it was a "mutual" decision but I really don't want him to live at his condo.  I am tired of all of the fighting though.  It has gotten remarkably better since we've been apart. 

He is gone for work until March 19th and then we are taking our oldest on a road trip for a week leaving the 24th to visit the college he will be attending in the Fall.  It is a 20 hour drive!  That is going to be a true test to see how things go when we are together for an extended period of time.  Both of the kids will be there so hopefully it will go ok.  He has been texting a ton over the last couple of weeks too.  He's been interested in what's going on in my life and asking questions instead of focusing all on himself as has been the usual for quite a while now.  I know he wants sex when he gets back and he has been sending some very provocative messages over the last week.  I've responded some and that seems to get his attention big time.  Not sure how to proceed with this for now...

Anyway, I'm going to meet some friends to play bunco.  I met a couple of friends for a drink last night too.  Doing my best to stay active, but it's a rainy night and I'd rather just spend time at home with my kids!  Going to stick to my limit of doing one social thing a week for a while.  It's about all I can handle.

 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 05:06:44 PM »
So I woke up in a mood today.  I found out last week that I'm going to be served papers for a court date on the 20th.  My husband has been in a feud with our neighbors for the last seven years and it's in regards to that.  Funny, I have nothing to do with it, but they can't serve him since he's out of state so they're calling me in to court.  I haven't gotten served yet, but the stress of it is killing me.  I am not confrontational at all and court is not my thing.  Especially since I haven't been a part of this war and have no idea what has been going on between them these days. 

Anyway, H thinks it's no big deal and is calling me dramatic for worrying about it.  I was annoyed as can be and that sparked a little bit of a text fight.  He made some comment about "if we stay married" and a couple of other things to push my buttons.  I think I'm getting tired of the "ifs" and "maybes" of this whole thing.  He doesn't seem actively involved with the OW, but maybe he is and I'm just in the dark.  That would not surprise me in the least.  Maybe I am just letting him be a cake eater?  Is it time to set some kind of boundaries?  Like as long as you are unsure about if you want to be in this marriage or not, we need to not be in contact unless it's about the kids?  I just don't know what to do, but I'm tired of this limbo.   
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2018, 05:23:46 PM »
I thought I was emotionally detaching, but turns out I am not.  Things took a turn for the worse this week.  H has been gone in Detroit working for almost the last month.  I have a few valid reasons to believe he did not leave for the trip when he originally said.  I may have snooped which I know is the downfall for anyone going through this crap with an MCLer.

Anyway, of course he lies and says I'm crazy.  Maybe I am, who knows.  He called me last night and we talked for over an hour.  During the conversation I asked him if he is still involved with OW.  He said there is no relationship right now but he doesn't know if he wants to be with her or not.  That was enough for me.  I told him today that I am filing and we've been having a huge text fight.  He is not against me filing, but he is saying how he will fight me tooth and nail and will not "roll over" to give me everything I want.  I told him I don't care.  I'm asking for half of everything which is required by law.  We've also made some very personal DVD recordings over the year if you know what I mean and I found out he's taken those too.  I am so pissed off!  He said he doesn't trust what I will do with them, but I don't trust him either.  I think they need to be destroyed in front of both of us but he keeps dodging the question.

I so want to text the OW and tell her that he is all hers.  I have it written out in my notes on my phone and really want to send it.  My sister says it's a bad idea.  It probably is, but this is what I want to send:

I have had enough of H's lies so I am filing for divorce.  My suspicions have been confirmed that he has been stringing you along, but I'm guessing you didn't know he's been doing the same with me.  He is truly conflicted over who he wants to be with and I will not play along with that game.  You can be his backup plan and spend your time worrying if he really wanted to be with me or if your relationship can last.  He will tell you everything you want to hear, but when you realize he also lies to you too let me know and I will show you my text messages that prove it.

I know contacting the OW is a bad idea if you want to salvage your relationship, but is a bad idea if you want to plant seeds of doubt?  Probably yes.  Please, somebody tell me not to send it before I do and make a fool of myself
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2018, 05:51:55 PM »
Don't do it...From experience...Don't do it...I promise you will thank yourself. It doesn't matter what you say, how you say it. She will then believe she is the "winner". That you gave up and she really isn't going to care. All she cares about is that your H is far away from you. So what will that accomplish? What purpose will it serve? None. It just gets you even more upset.
Trust me..I had a 45 minute conversation with the OW and all it did was to make her believe that because he has so many problems, (she believed marriage problems) that she could manipulate him even more. Which happened and well, he isn't here. IMHO sending anything to her is just not worth it.
If you do send it, this will just backfire as well. Your H will believe nothing that you say and will turn to the OW even more.
Write it out on paper. Everything..Everything you feel and think. Then just burn it. Get up and go do something.
H strung me along as well. The things he said and did, all the while I thought that OW was gone. She wasn't. He even said to me "don't you think she's moved on by now"..ya no. Because he knew she wasn't going anywhere. The lies they tell.

Give yourself a 30 second hate thought then let it go. It's not worth it beyond 30 seconds.
Yes emotionally, it is so difficult to detach. It sucks. But start thinking about yourself. Do something for you. Walk, bike, cook, read...Anything that will get your focus off of your H and OW and let it be.

Trust me...You are the Queen...You are married to him.....So be the queen....Just keep that in mind...
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »
Thank you, Smiling...

I didn't send it.  Every word you wrote is absolutely right.  No matter what I say, she will believe she won.  I feel like she's winning anyway since he said he doesn't know if he wants to be with her or not.  He also said, "If I knew I wanted to be with her, I'd be with her."  Not sure if that was meant to make me feel better, but it sure didn't. 

I let everything out yesterday.  I said everything I feel, all of my opinions on what he's doing, called names, swore, ranted, and raved.  I told him that since he is unsure he wants to be married and unsure what he wants to do with the other woman that I will go ahead and file for divorce.  He waffles between saying "Go ahead and just do it then so I don't have to deal with you for one second longer," to saying things like, "Maybe the best idea would be to just take a breath and relax before any rash decisions are made."  I just can't stand for him anymore.  I know it's only been six months since I found out, but I can't do it anymore.  I'm going to file this week.  Sad, sad decision... but I really feel like if I don't do it then I will just live in this misery forever.  I can't do it anymore.  I need to be happy again.  I know divorce is a long and lonely road, but I'm hopeful there will be happiness on the other side of it.  I'm not sure I will ever see happiness again if I stay married.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Mrs.Smiling

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2018, 02:13:48 PM »
We've all been there...I even asked H if he wanted a D. He told ME if that's what I wanted then to go ahead and start the paper work...lol I don't think so...not doing his dirty work..
I know that OW is an affair down...she is washed up and looks used...he even stated to me that he was using her until he gets where he wants to be...oh my goodness ...
If you take a step back...a big step back just look in for a minute...look at his turmoil...it's HIS crisis...not yours...
I believe somewhere someone had posted something about the 180...I have it printed out...I read it like it's the bible..
I wouldn't mention D or your R or your M...start focusing on you...it has taken me months (with the help of those here) to start moving forward and detach...and this is his 4th time leaving..all I care about now is mine and S's future...I've made so many changes and it started with how you feel, not how he feels....it gets better...I know you want to rush it and have everything solved right now...but it just doesn't work on our time line....
You will be ok, no matter what choice you make...just remember your self worth...
He is confused...let him work on him...trust us all here!
Be the best version of yourself... there is no other

You cant break my spirit, its my dreams you take - James Blunt

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2018, 02:29:10 AM »
Day...just breathe a bit.

Work out what is hurting most right now and move away from it as much as you can. If that means a period of NC, that's fine. You need to recenter yourself away from the drama of H so you can make wise decisions for you.

Do you need to file for D to protect yourself financially? Or is it about your home or kids? Is a legal/financial separation possible where you live? What are the practical pros and cons of D vs other choices right now? Please bear in mind that D - especially with an MLC spouse - is not a straightforward process.

How much of your reaction is emotional? Either because you think it will make you feel better or because you think it will hurt or shock your H? Is it because a bit of you wants to run away from this situation or wants some control? If he's in MLC, it probably won't make much difference IMHO and 6 months is early in this 'game'. And a legal D will not magically make your pain go away either. Are there other things you can do first for yourself right now which might help you more?

I'm not saying you shouldn't file. I am suggesting you take a little time to breathe and be clear about why you want to do it and how it will benefit you. Give it a couple of days or weeks at least...it's an important decision.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2018, 08:15:59 PM »
I haven't filed yet, but I am still set on doing it soon if things don't change.  We ended up having a huge fight over text messages and I told him he can no longer have a wife and a girlfriend so if he doesn't make the decision, I am going to make it for him.  He was mean and nasty until the end of the fight when he asked if we could just talk about this in person.  We ended up talking a couple of days later and he told me over and over that he is no longer involved with this other woman.  That things "faded" away after I found out in September but that it had nothing to do with me finding out.  He doesn't like that she talks about her job all the time and he is annoyed by her.  The only reason they still communicate is because she bought two houses in Detroit that he is fixing up for her to rent out since that is his business and she has invested $40,000.  He said he was never leaving me for her, he was just leaving because of the problems that we were having.  That he's not sure if our marriage can be salvaged because I will "never be able to let this go" and because of the problems we had before the affair. 

I agreed to give him a month to make up his mind if he wanted to work this marriage out or not.  I told him I am on the cusp of giving up and that I can't take this indecision anymore.  I told him I have offered to work past all of the nonsense that has occurred but that the more that happens the harder it will be for me to forgive him and work things out.  I told him I don't have much left to give so he has a month.  If he "still can't decide" by that point I am going to file.  I need to move on one way or the other.  It seems like the more serious about divorce that I get the more he starts to want to come back to our marriage.  He is going to church with me on Saturday for Easter and is coming to the house on Easter Sunday.  Maybe those are steps in the right direction or maybe that is his way of pacifying me in hopes of getting me to extend my deadline so he can continue to live a married, yet single, life.  I just don't know!!!!!   
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Thunder

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2018, 03:57:28 AM »
Hi Day,

I just read through some of your thread.  I'm sorry you are getting so frustrated, but this crisis does take a long time.

You have every right to file if it's better for you, but please take your time.
Giving him an ultimatum is not usually a good thing when they are so unsure of themselves.  He may not be ready to work on the marriage or anything yet so if he decides to come back, he will just leave again.  He's no way ready to commit right now.
He isn't on a timeline, like within a month he will change.   He won't.

I wouldn't force it, myself.
Just my humble opinion.

It does sound like he is done with that ow, but not done with his crisis.  It just can't be rushed.  Even threatening a D isn't going to magically wake him up.
If it's something you really want, and you're done, just do it with no threats.  No fighting.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2018, 09:53:57 PM »
Thanks, Thunder.  I appreciate your response and I know what you say is right.  I have read over and over that ultimatums don't work and I know that.  I think I'm at the point that I just don't care anymore though.  I don't want to get divorced.  That's never how I pictured my life going of course, but I just don't want to keep living on pins and needles. What if one day he does get through this crisis and he decides he wants to come back?  What if it takes a really long time and I just keep waiting?  How damaged will I be by then?  He's already destroying me no matter how much I try to not let it. 

When April 19th comes, the one month mark, and he says he is still not sure about our marriage I will quietly go to my lawyer the next day (appointment already made) and file.  It won't be a huge fight or a threat.  It will just be done.  It will be one of the worst days of my life... but it is what I feel I need to do.  I love him and always will but I am just not strong enough to deal with this. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2018, 03:21:18 PM »
I started going back to church a month or so after I found out he was cheating.  He grew up in the church and would try to get me to go more often in years past but it would always kind of fade away.  I wasn't the one interested in going because I always felt pressured to give money we didn't have and to volunteer time I didn't think I had being a full-time teacher and mom of two.  Anyway, I've tried to get him to go with me over the last few months and he would never do it.  It's been helping me get myself centered and grounded so I'm happy to be back.  However, he would make comments on how he's never going to church again, etc.

I asked him to go with me for the Easter service and he agreed.  I was surprised, but I was also happy.  It was a great message and had a surprisingly lot to do with marriage and relationships.  Our friend is a pastor at our church and he has been trying to reach out to my husband.  H has been very reluctant, but has seemingly opened up to the idea of it a little more after the service this weekend.  They have been texting quite a bit but I'm not sure the exact details.  We went out to dinner with our kids after the service and he ended up spending the night.  He stayed the next day (Easter), we did a lot of yardwork, and I also made a nice dinner.  He stayed again.  Monday morning he got up and took all the landscape waste to the dump and I figured he wouldn't be back.  He came back, fixed the brake lights on my son's care, cleaned his headlights, cleaned my headlights, and is currently working on our taxes in the office.  Last night he told me he had a lot of work to do today and I assumed he meant he had his handyman jobs to do for other people as that's how he alluded.  I asked him why he was here so much today and he said because taxes have to take priority since he's leaving again for Detroit on the 10th.  He is right, but he could do them when I go back to work tomorrow.

It wasn't the best time we've ever spent together.  He thinks I "push his buttons" by asking him questions or "questioning" what he does.  It's stupid stuff like when he was setting the smoker for me he set it for 3 1/2 hours and I said but the ham only needs to be in there for 2 1/2 hours.  He had to set it for preheat time too.  There were a few other instances just like that and he would get so annoyed.  I ended up telling him on Easter night that I didn't even know why he was still here if he was so annoyed.  He just kind of laughed it off and made it sound like he was joking or something.  He would also say things like, "You are out of toilet paper," or he would ask if he could eat something from the fridge.  He knows that stuff annoys me and he said it was just him trying to keep up with me for pushing his buttons.   

Anyway, he has waffled between being annoyed with me and being nice.  I don't want a divorce, but I am still thinking that I need to stick with my April 20th deadline for him to decide if he wants this marriage to work or not.  I keep letting him run the show and decide when he will or won't see me or come over to the house.  I feel like I'm in such a rough spot because I know our kids like when he's around.  I need to set boundaries for myself and that just doesn't happen right now.  Once I file, if I file, mentally I will know that there are now boundaries and that there is no stopping by the house for whatever reason he wants.  The kids will understand that too.  I hope. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2018, 06:23:59 PM »
This has been the worst week of my life, hands down.  My 18 year old son was involved in a serious accident on 4/8/18.  One week ago tonight.  He will be ok, thank God, but he has a long road to recovery.  He was taken to the trauma unit with a dislocated hip, in need of knee surgery, and four broken bones in his back.  He was just released from the hospital and is home now, but he has terrible difficulty getting around on his own.  He can move in a walker for a couple of steps, but he is basically bed-ridden and needs to be moved in a wheelchair if going more than a couple of feet. I am so thankful he will be ok and nothing was permanently injured!  I am also lucky I have a job where I can take the time off needed to be with him.

In fairness, my husband did ask if he wanted me to stay home from Detroit for this 3-week cycle of being out there.  My son and I both agreed we would be ok without him.  I wish he didn't go, but he did.  He does call and text to check up on our son because there are some depression issues setting in.  These injuries will likely affect his college/ROTC plans in the fall. 

Anyway, this has also been hard on me because in addition to the worry about my son, I have a lot of down and quiet time when he is asleep where my mind wanders.  I am sticking to the 4/19 deadline for my husband to give me an ultimatum about our marriage.  I thought this kind of catastrophic event would spur him to realize he wants to keep his family together, but it doesn't seem to have at least from my perspective.  He did tell me he hasn't talked to the other woman in over 2 weeks though which I find surprising because he's out in Detroit finishing up her house this trip.  Maybe the novelty has really worn off between the two of them.  I can only hope...
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2018, 08:39:29 PM »
It's been a long time... it's been a long, hard journey.  I dropped off of this site in April.  I went through a desperately hard time through the end of June.  I considered admitting myself into a hospital to get help with the depression, but my mom came out to stay with me for a couple of weeks and I found an out-patient doctor that prescribed anxiety/depressions meds.  I started counseling at church.  I worked summer school in July and things really started to turn around.  I was able to get out of bed and keep going, one foot in front of the other, and by September 14th, I was good.  I remember that day because it was the one-year mark of finding out about the affair and I was dreading that day.  It turned out to be a really good day and I felt confident.  Hopeful.  Maybe even happy. 

Less than two weeks later, I came home from church and there was a coffee on my front porch.  From my husband.  This repeated a few weeks in a row and then text messages followed.  He wanted to work things out.  Begging and pleading.  Apologizing profusely.  Everything I had dreamed he would do for the whole entire previous year.  Swore he had broken things off with her "because she wasn't me."  Turns out they did have a full blown relationship even though he consistently made it sound like they didn't even after he filed for divorce in May and had me served.  He told me answers to every question I ever had and now I wish I didn't know some of the answers.  He told me why he's not with that woman anymore and that even if I never take him back he would never go back to her.  He was in Detroit working for three weeks out of this time and sent sweet and thoughtful texts multiple times a day.

He came back from Detroit and his retina had detached.  He had to have emergency surgery.  He wanted to work things out and I decided I wanted to give him another chance too. He was recovering and I wanted to take care of him, so he stayed at the house.  I told him I do not want a husband who has a condo anymore and he reluctantly agreed to stay at the house.  He told me he didn't think it was a good idea to jump back into things without the help of a counselor, but I was stubborn and insisted that I didn't want him to leave again and that I would work on finding a counselor.  That lasted two weeks.  He went back to his condo in tears and distraught.  Said he can't explain what the problem is but that he feels like he's crawling out of his skin when he's at the house.  Said he doesn't want to be at his condo.  Doesn't want to be with the other woman or at her house.  Isn't sure he wants to be at our house and is unsure if it will ever feel like home to him again.  Can't handle the "snarky" comments I made regarding his affair and feels like a complete and total failure for what he has done.  I freaked out when he left but I have since calmed down.  His friend has called me.  My church friends have talked to me.  Everyone agrees that he is right and that we shouldn't have jumped into it and that we need guidance from a counselor.  I just have such issues being separated because when he left in January it was because he wanted to continue his affair despite his reassurances nothing was going on.  Anyway, I am clearly in the minority here thinking that living in the same house is a good idea so soon into deciding we want to work things out.

He still really wants to see a counselor and has asked me to set it up through the woman I saw from church this summer.  I agreed to do that.  Our lead pastor is our neighbor and has been trying to lean into my husband since all of this started and he has another pastor involved in getting counseling set up for us as soon as possible.  They also have names of private counselors that they are sending us as well.  He is doing and saying all the right things, but my stubborn heart is hurt that he didn't stay in the house.  He said he's can't explain why he feels like he does, but that he's afraid if he stays without us having a third party involved that it is like a powder keg that is ready to explode.  He thinks that more damage is being done with us trying to do this on our own.

He did send me an invitation to track his phone on Find Friends to prove to me that he will always be at his condo or working... and not with her.  I think that is a promising sign.  I don't know.  I just worked so hard to get myself back to a place of being able to survive in this world and I'm so afraid that he will break me again.  I thought I was strong enough to handle this but I'm not so sure.  Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated.  I am struggling and very, very scared.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online OffRoad

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2018, 09:07:01 PM »
Run, do not walk,  to a counselor.  One for you and one for both if you.  Most MLCers are not completely cooked when they come back, and it sounds like your H is no exception. But he does sound like he wants to come back, and he does sound like he is trying to be transparent.

Have a nice chat with your stubborn heart. Tell it that it needs to be patient, to have no expectations and let the story continue to unfold slowly. Give both of you space to work through this. You are still hurt and raw. He is likely quite raw at this time. Keep working with your support people. Just take it each day as it comes. Take care of yourself. Jumping in with both feet could be overwhelming, for both of you.

Thank you for coming back and posting. I'm glad you were able to work through your depression and encourage you to keep taking care of you first
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2018, 09:43:23 PM »
Thanks, OffRoad... I will definitely have a chat with my stubborn heart  ;) Thanks for that laugh! 

I know you're right.  Everyone is telling me the same thing and what I wanted sent him running for the hills after just two weeks, so I guess I need to be patient.  What's the rush at this point anyway?  He hasn't lived here since January and I have finally learned that if he wants to be with the OW, there is no way I can stop him.  If he wants to be at his condo so he's free to be with her or talk to her then there is nothing I can do about that anyway.  I will keep your advice of having no expectations in the front of my mind.  That truly seems the best way for me not to get hurt and for him to not feel so much pressure.   
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Penelope2018

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2018, 10:04:42 PM »
I'm not as well versed on MLC as many others here because my situation is still semi-new as well. I can only wish you the best and like Offroad basically said, "have no expectations." Ime, it only leads to heartache. At least he seems to be trying. It's better than nothing. I've been divorced almost exactly one year. Filed not long after finding out about the affair, like you were going to do. We still live together and our relationship is pretty much like many others here. He acknowledges he's having a MLC but does what he wants when he wants with no regard for anyone else. Still seeing OW (ootc), lies, manipulates, cries easily, tries to bait me into arguing, etc etc. It's a tough road!
MLC XH - 42 currently
M - 34 currently
Mini BD - Feb 2017  - Doesn't want to be married to a "sad" person.
Angry b/c I was depressed from my Grandmother's death in 12/16
BD - July 2017 - spent the previous 3 months in his home country with OW
OW discovered Aug 2017
EA started Dec 2016? PA start unsure
Filed for D - Aug 2017
D - Nov 2017
I moved out for four months
Moved back in for 8.5 months
Moved back out 12/2018 - practicing NC
Married - 15 Y
No kids

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2018, 01:29:00 PM »
Some days are just so much harder than others.  I'm on vacation from work this week which is good, but it does give my mind way too much time to wander. 

Nothing really even happened.  Two nights ago H texted me, "Goodnight and I love you."  i didn't see it until the next morning but I responded that I loved him too.  We texted periodically throughout the day and he came over to clean out the garage.  He's been on a cleaning kick which is huge for him because he might be described as a borderline hoarder.  It's not that bad, but he saves lots of random stuff.  Anyway, I keep thinking "Why is he cleaning?  Is it because he wants to do it now before he signs papers and has to move all the stuff out of the garage and he doesn't want to have to store it?  Or is it part of his MLC and he's just trying to organize his life or get some kind of control of it?  Or is it just like he does every few years or so and he gets on a cleaning kick that fizzles after a few days?"  Whatever the reason... who cares?  Why am I obsessing?  I know I can't find answers in anything he says or does because he doesn't even have the answers himself. 

Anyway, I had plans to meet up with my friends for dinner so the boys went to H's condo for dinner.  He texted me the whole time they were there and told me when the kids were on their way back "there."  He didn't say home.  He said there.  I don't know why that triggered me.  We also texted about how annoyed our oldest was that he got a packet of seeds in the mail from the college he's waiting for an acceptance letter from and H said we need to plant those and send them to school next year with him.  I told him that was funny and that he needs to take the seeds home with him because I would just kill the plant (it's a well known fact and long running joke that I can't keep a plant alive to save my life.)  He didn't respond at all after that.  I haven't heard from him today either.  I know he's probably annoyed I said that because earlier in the day I told him to take a couple of things "home" with him from my house and he made some comment about how they can just stay here or something.  I don't remember.  Anyway, I think I'm just looking for hints or answers and I'm having a hard time keeping no expectations today.  I had to vent.  Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this.  I appreciate all of the support from this site! 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline serenity

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2018, 01:53:20 PM »
Sadly there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to any of this

You can drive yourself mad looking for reasons, patterns or answers and it doesn’t help. Who knows why your H is cleaning things out.

Just leave him to it

X

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2018, 01:26:12 PM »
We found a counselor that was recommended by the church, accepts my health insurance, and had an opening today... but we had to cancel.  H is at the hospital seeing a surgeon for the possibility that his retina has detached again.  It originally detached in July, his other retina detached in October, and now it's seeming like he very possibly needs a second surgery on the first retina.  The referring doctor told asked if he had eaten anything yet today and that he shouldn't eat anything until after he sees the surgeon. That is not promising to hear. This will be his third eye surgery since July if that is the case.

I have wished for H to be miserable more times that I can count over the last year, but I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.  I was hoping for something more along the lines of a failed relationship with OW and crushing heartbreak.  I feel really bad for him.

I also realize that this means working on our marriage needs to be put on hold.  I think God is trying to teach me to have patience.  That's definitely not my strong suit.     
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2018, 09:23:33 AM »
So glad Thanksgiving is over!  H stayed over here the night before and the night of Thanksgiving.  He spent the day with us, but he did leave to go watch the afternoon football game with a friend.  I kept checking the Find Friends app to be sure that's where he was and that is the location his phone showed.  I hate that this is what has become of us.  I used to be so absolutely trusting.  I will never be that way again though which may not be a bad thing, I guess.

His eye surgery is today.  He asked me to just drop him off at the hospital.  He doesn't want me to stay or wait with him.  This is his sixth surgery this year and he said he's learned that he likes to just go by himself, zone out on his phone playing this online game, and then just get it done.  He also is going to recover at his condo this time because it's "easier and more comfortable" for him since it's smaller and quieter.  He has to lay face down for at least a week, 24/7.  I get what he is saying, but it is so upsetting anyway.  On one hand, he says he wants to work this out, but then on the other he makes comments like he's more comfortable by himself?  So, I'm going to leave him to be by himself.  I have to start protecting my heart again and the only way I got through this before was to cut off contact.  I won't cut him off, but I won't initiate contact either.  He has a lot going on with his eyes being such a mess so I'm going to give him space to try to figure out what he wants out of life.  I am just so tired of this limbo. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 07:58:19 PM »
I am emotionally exhausted.  Time for 180 again.  I woke up this morning to a message on my phone saying that H had stopped sharing his location with me.  I flipped out.  He rehabs houses in Michigan and is currently finishing one that his other woman bought when they were in the middle of the affair.  He said they aren't talking, but I don't believe him.  He said that if he needs to contact her about a problem or something else house related he will do it through text and tell me if it happens.  I don't believe that either.  He said he didn't want me checking his location and being upset that he is working on her house.  I already know he's there!  That makes absolutely no sense to me.  He's hiding something else.  I told him that this was not his decision to make and that if he planned to keep the location turned off then I was done putting effort into this marriage.  I didn't hear from him for an hour and a half then.  When I did finally hear from him he said he didn't have his phone with him.  He said it was in his car and he was working.  He is NEVER without his phone.  So, I don't believe that either.  We texted sporadically throughout the day and it was basically me just telling him we are done.

I cancelled the counseling appointment we had set for tomorrow that he was going to participate in via FaceTime.  I told his friend who has been texting me nonstop to stay patient and let him come around that I was done and that he needed to stop texting me. 

Now I just got a notification that he turned his location back on.  I told him he should see the marriage counselor as an IC and that maybe we would talk when he comes back into town.  I told him that this is not healthy for either of us and he needs to figure out what he wants and stop dragging my heart through the mud.  I just can't do this anymore.  I am so, so tired of the hurt.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2019, 07:40:19 PM »
Back again! It's been a tough couple of months.  Last I posted, H had turned off his phone location.  He turned it back on after that but then his GPS "broke" a couple of weeks later so his location no longer worked.  Long story short, I believe he turned it off because he wanted to go to a party at his affair partner's brother's house, the property manager he did handyman work for over the last couple of years.  The Saturday before Christmas, H said he needed to go shopping for me.  It just felt odd.  That man hasn't seen the inside of a store since Amazon was invented.  Anyway, I stalked fb on Christmas Eve and found a picture of him from that night with HER at that Christmas party.  I flipped out.  Totally and completely.  He begged me to calm down and forgive him.  That he didn't think she was going to be there (hahahahaha!) and that he only stayed 20 minutes once she arrived.  He went to the party because he's "starving" and wanted to network with people that could possibly hire him.  I don't believe a word of it, but he did come over to the house (we are still separated) with a bottle of champagne and wanted to watch a movie the night he was at the party.  He was at my house by 8pm and her brother lives almost an hour away.  So... he definitely wasn't out living it up for too long if at all. 

Things went from bad to worse.  We were fighting nonstop. He told me he's not "safe" for me and that he wanted me to stop trying so hard to save the relationship.  He took my youngest son to California over Christmas break for a few days and our oldest wouldn't go with them.  He stayed home with me.  He completely pulled back and I did the exact same thing. 

Now, here we are in the middle of February and we've been talking again for a few weeks.  He's sent our insurance information to a professional counselor and is waiting approval and then will supposedly set up an appointment for us.  He's been watching videos from "Affair Recovery" and we talk about them a little bit.  He's going to do the "40 days of prayer" bible study our church is starting on Sunday.  We are very good friends with the lead pastor and H has been talking to him a lot.  As my friend who works for the church says, "Pastor has a heart for the lost."  When all of this started, the pastor kept telling me he wanted to lean into Eric and help him through this, but it never seemed to help.  At least H seems to be making an effort now. 

This is just the most brutal roller coaster ride I've ever been on and it's exhausting too.  I'm sure many, if not all, of you can relate.  I just needed to write tonight.  It's one of those nights where everything is a trigger and I'm starting to wonder why I'm still hanging on to this marriage after all the hell and drama.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online barbiedoll

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2019, 08:10:12 PM »
Quote
This is just the most brutal roller coaster ride I've ever been on and it's exhausting too.  I'm sure many, if not all, of you can relate.  I just needed to write tonight.  It's one of those nights where everything is a trigger and I'm starting to wonder why I'm still hanging on to this marriage after all the hell and drama.
.

Yes. We have all wondered why we "hang on". What is that about anyway??   Back and forth..we are done, we are trying again.. and back to DONE. Brutal is the exact word and it just goes on and on. I am happy to read that you have appointments with a counsellor ..you cannot continue like this forever. Sounds like your husband is still in the thick of it , lying , sneaking around and then seemingly trying to do " the right things ". What a mess ! I would suggest some research into making some strict boundaries , before you completely loose your mind .  Is there an OW or is there not an OW ... or are you not sure?  I am sorry that this happens to us, I know the utter pain you are in.
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2019, 08:38:05 PM »
Thanks for responding, barbiedoll.  I appreciate it!  I definitely do need to set some boundaries.  I just want to pretend none of this ever happened and just move on though.  I know that's ridiculous, that it's not possible, that it would never work long-term or even short-term possibly.  I have no idea if there's an OW or not anymore.  I want to say that things are over with them like H claims, but after seeing that picture I'd be a fool to believe that.  He wants to take me out for Valentine's Day.  I told him I have plans with friends that day so now he's asking to take me out on Saturday.  I said yes.  I probably shouldn't have, but I miss him and we do have fun together. 

I also just found out through a police officer friend of mine that OW is retiring from the police department unexpectedly.  That should be great.  A 46 year old, single, mother of two with nothing but time on her hands now.  I see this affair drama getting worse before long.  Everyone is talking and rumor has it that it's some kind of scandal that led to her retirement.  I wouldn't be surprised even just from the little I know of her.  Anyone that chooses to participate in an affair has little to no character in my opinion so why wouldn't she be getting herself into situations at work that could lead to her abruptly leaving?  I'm going to brace myself for how this affects my marriage though.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online barbiedoll

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2019, 09:09:07 PM »
Daybyday...I have not read your entire story so really I should not be commenting at all. Please excuse me if I offend or make anything worse for you ... never my intention.  IF he has an OW ( sounds like he does ) , why do you believe it is ok or in your best interest to be "dating" your husband ? I am very very curious about how you feel about that .

Something to ponder ...

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries-and-consequences.asp?
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2019, 09:20:44 PM »
Following along DBD. So sorry you're going through all of this. Your H sounds like he's all over the place - it has to be so incredibly exhausting for you.

No advice from me other than what you've already heard - slow down and take care of yourself; eat, sleep and drink water; breathe in and out, work on other friendships, try to find some hobbies that you do just for you and don't have anything to do with him or his drama. Try to remember that his crisis is not a judgment on you and is not even really about you.

Take care.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2019, 11:02:44 PM »
Well done on saying 'no' to valentines Day. Your choice if you see him on Saturday but if you do, keep your expectations to zero. From the outside it sounds as if ow is probably still in the mix and you know he was lying to you just a few weeks ago, so the chances are high that he is still lying about a lot of things. Maybe work out how you can detach a bit more and look detached on Sat? How you will shut down any nonsense or R talks bc right now, he is at best unreliable and at worst lying so it would be a waste of your breath and potentially confusing for your heart?

What kind of boundaries have you set so far?
Andvwhat kind of boundaries do you think you need now?
Boundaries are confusing things....remember they are not about what he does, they are about what you will accept coming into the garden of your life...if it helps, you could think out loud here and get a bit of feedback.
So, you had a Valentine's Day boundary for instance that was something like 'I stick to the social plans I make and you no longer come first in my list'....very healthy. What are others?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2019, 07:57:05 PM »
My initial reaction when I read the most recent comments about OW probably still being in the picture was, "No way.  She can't be.  It's over.  He's acting so differently now toward me than he was last year at this time."  THEN, I went back and reread my whole thread.  Every single comment from someone else was spot on. Everything I didn't want to hear or believe was true. I was so in denial then and I tried to listen to what others were saying, but I really didn't do a good job at that.  It's so hard to believe what others can so plainly see from an outside perspective when you're wanting to believe that things will work out.  I want to believe that she is not in the picture and that we are working things out, but I definitely need to take a step back and realize they are most likely together after reading through this thread. 

Thanks for the encouragement about saying no to Valentine's Day.  I do feel good about that.  I had a nice time out with my friend and am tired from a busy day at work.  Last year I was crying my eyes out on Valentine's Day even though I spent it with him and this year I feel good.  Well, maybe good is an overstatement.  I don't feel hopeless and horrible.  I honestly have no idea what other boundaries I need to set.  I cannot keep a level head if I have contact with him at all and I hate not being in contact with him.  I don't know much about co-dependency, but I think I am that.  Sometimes I think I just need to cut off all contact and see how things go from there.  Maybe I will cancel on Saturday night. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Treasur

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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2019, 06:38:43 PM »
We ended up going out on Saturday night and had a great time.  I told myself I wouldn't hold any expectations and I didn't... until the next day.  I cannot handle seeing him or being around him.  I completely and totally fall apart the next day.  So, on Sunday I went on a rant.  He was at his condo so this was all done over text. 

Everyone tells me that we should not be living together and that we need this time apart to work through things, but his condo is a HUGE trigger for me.  He rented it without telling me about it.  He told my kids about it before I even found out he was cheating.  He "moved home" after leaving for a month when I first found out about his affair.  That lasted about four or five months before he moved back to his condo.  He later admitted that the PA started when he moved to his condo the last time in January of 2018.  He swears she's never been to the condo.  That one of the reasons he "broke up" with the OW is because everything was so one-sided.  He always had to be the one to go see her and she never came to see him.  He tells me now that he "cannot live with me right now because I constantly berate him and make him feel like a failure and the worst person on the planet."  I wouldn't say it's that extreme, but there are definite comments that I make that I should hold back but can't seem to manage that.  When he left in January of last year he said he "couldn't be around me because our relationship was toxic."  I told him that was code for "I want to f*@& my mistress and lying to you is too much work so I need my space" and that his reasoning for living in his condo still sounds very much like his original excuse.  He swears he's not seeing his OW and that he wants to work things out, but how can I believe that? 

What is an appropriate boundary??  I struggle with that.  I did tell him that if he's still renting his condo by April 9th (when he leaves for Detroit for 3 weeks to work again) that I will sign the papers and not look back.  I told him I know that's an ultimatum and that I didn't care if he felt pressured because I don't care if this marriage works out or not.  (Yes, I see that I am a maniac and that I let my emotions flood and get the best of me. You should see some of the other texts I sent,.  :-[

I am so confused!  Everyone I talk to says the condo and the separation is a good thing, but it is a trigger for me.  Do I need to get over that and accept that this is how things need to be until we are making progress in counseling?  Or, should I tell him that he can stay in his condo as long as he feels it's necessary but that I need to not see him while he lives there because it's too hard on me?  I really need to figure this boundary thing out.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2019, 08:30:42 AM »
Sorry you're going through this DBD. It is completely normal to feel confused when you're in a crazy situation.

I suck at boundaries so I can't offer any advice on those.

All I would say about the condo and/or separation is to do what is best for you. It sounds to me like you could use some time and space, but that's just my observation from a distance. If the condo is a trigger, is there anywhere else one of you could stay? A spare room in the house? Working different shifts?

Others here who have been through similar situations as you might have better answers. Just keep in mind that you can't fix your MLCer because you didn't break him. So don't even try - you'll drive yourself crazy and push MLCer away. And yes, MLCers lie. Sorry.

And it sounds to me like your H is wracked with guilt. My W is the same way. The sight of me in pain makes her feel guilty. Don't be surprised if he projects the things he did on you and plays the victim. It's script.

So sorry you're here. And don't be afraid to visit other people's threads and check in. People will be more likely to visit yours if you follow along with theirs.

Take care.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2019, 05:37:05 PM »
Thanks for the advice, PJ.  My H just projected today.  He made some stupid comment about me having a boyfriend and it set me off.  He apologized and said that I never apologize for anything I say.  That over the last year (this would be the time he was with another woman!!!!!!) I have said some mean and hurtful things and have never once apologized.  I told him I never would.  Maybe I'm being stupid and stubborn but I am not apologizing to him for the things I said when I was hurt that he was with another woman, lying about it, and had left me.  Maybe that's a boundary?  Maybe that's me being stupid and I should apologize?  Either way, I'm not going to apologize. 

Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2019, 07:12:59 PM »
First of all, his comment about you having a boyfriend is cruel and horrible. So sorry he was such a jerk to you.

Hmm, I don't know about apologizing/not apologizing. My first thought is that we have to own our own words and actions. Somebody has to be a grownup, right? I wonder what would happen if you said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but here's why I said or did what I did."?

Of course, don't expect any Hallmark moments or mea culpas from H. He's lost in a fog and fixated on himself and playing the victim card.

Just speaking from my own situation, my W really appreciated it when I told her I knew she was trying. Honestly, she's not trying very hard and she's not very remorseful at all. But me acknowledging a baby step seemed to be a big deal to her.

I don't know if this helps you or not. I wish you well and hope you're able to work on you and taking care of yourself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2019, 09:53:50 PM »
Lol!  So ever since I posted that I wasn't going to apologize for things I've said in the past it hasn't set well with me.  I've been beating myself up a little bit about how I'm being childish and there were probably some really out of line things that I said in a rage.  Then your very gentle and polite nudge about someone being the grown up made me nod my head in agreement.  You are right.  Right now, he is broken and lost.  He probably actually is hanging on to something I said that probably really did hurt.  No matter that he did a million other unfathomable things to me... but, I'm going to try to be the adult.  Thank you for that.

I agree about little compliments, or maybe just noticing any positives, seem to go a long way.  I'm figuring out that H needs to be needed.  Throughout all of this he would try to do things around the house for me and I would flip out.  I didn't want him around at all.  If he wasn't going to be in my life full time he wasn't going to come around and help out around the house to make himself feel better.  Now, when he offers to do things, I accept and am grateful.  I let him know it's appreciated and he wants to do more then.  I'm pretty sure that's his love language.  Acts of service. 

I also read a devotional today about how sometimes you forget to act like you did when you were first married.  I can't remember exactly how it went, but basically it's about taking your spouse for granted and how that is not acceptable.  I sent the verse to my H and apologized for not only making him feel unappreciated but for sometimes seemingly going out of my way to let him know if I blamed him for things that were wrong with me.  Things I was suffering with or struggling with in life.  Things that weren't even necessarily even related to him and I would hold him responsible.  For example, we live in a state 2,000 miles from "home" because he wanted to move here.  I never wanted to leave where I grew up but we have been here 20 years now.  This is home now.  I hated my job at one point and let him know my job would've been better had we not moved.  I don't even know that to be true but I had to make sure he knew that I still hold it against him for where we live.  I am not excusing what he did, but I can look back and see that maybe I was pretty difficult to live with at times and that he felt like he wasn't enough for me. 

Anyway, thanks for the advice.  I'm going to try to be the grown up and try to notice the positives that I see in him.  Even if things don't work out for us, I'd tired of being angry and upset.  I don't want to become a bitter old woman.   
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2019, 10:24:35 PM »
You're welcome, DBD! I rarely offer advice, but it's always free. Take it or discard as you see fit. I hope it helped you in this case.

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Even if things don't work out for us, I'd tired of being angry and upset.  I don't want to become a bitter old woman. 
That's a great way of looking at it! You'll hear it a lot around here - holding onto anger is like swallowing a poison and hoping it kills the other person. Eventually you get to the point where you realize that holding onto it is no longer doing anything good for you and you let it go for your own sake. I struggled with this a lot since my W showed ZERO remorse for over two years. So I know it's easier said than done!

You sound good DBD! Keep up the good work and please be good to yourself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2019, 09:44:02 PM »
Just feeling a little stressed out tonight.  H works out of town for three weeks and then is back "home" (currently at his own condo) for three weeks.  He alternates like this all throughout the year.  Anyway, he is coming back into town on Wednesday and I am feeling anxious.  When he's out of town I don't have any expectations of him and I don't have any worries that he's with the other woman.  We get along great over text and this trip he's been calling pretty much every single day.

When he's in town I'm constantly wondering if he's with her or if he's working for her brother again like he has been for the last few years before I knew who he was. If he doesn't respond to a text immediately I automatically assume he's with her. If he isn't making plans to see me I'm thinking he doesn't want this marriage to work and then I get angry. He wants to take me out on dates, or "sleep" over, or hang out at the house on his terms... it just drives me crazy.  I feel like a girlfriend or a mistress and I shouldn't have to feel that way after being married for 22 years. I know I'm being irrational in a way.  He said he's got counseling all set up as far as turning in all the paperwork, getting the insurance approved, etc.  He just has to set the appointment and he said he's doing that when he gets back in town and knows his work schedule.  H hasn't done one thing in the last two months (since Christmas) that makes me feel like he is running away again.  He seems to be drawing closer, but I'm always waiting for the monster to come back. 

Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to journal my thoughts to calm myself down.  He swears he's not with her, hasn't seen her, hasn't talked to her.  I don't trust him even kind of and he hasn't earned that trust back at all yet, but I'm tired of driving myself crazy.  I'm hoping I can just take a deep breath and calm myself down while he's in town.  Whatever is going to happen is going to happen and me worrying about it isn't going to stop it.  I will find out whatever there is to find out if he's carrying on with her again.  Not much has stayed a secret through all of this so far.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Unraveled

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2019, 10:14:34 PM »
DBD,

Someone recently reminded me that either they have had an awakening and are beginning to come to terms with the damage they have caused and are working toward reconnection, or they haven't and they are going to be doing the same old stuff and you can't stop them from it by worrying.  All you will do is make yourself sick and push him away from the constant questioning and demand for answers.  Do you want the lying cheating version anyway?  If that is who he is now, leave him to it.  If he's telling the truth, then you have nothing to worry about.  Either way, you aren't going to change his behavior.  Instead you are going to have to change yours.

Get a rubber band.  Put it on your wrist.  Every time you start to freak yourself out imaging the parade of horribles, give it a bit of a snap.  Train yourself to knock that stuff off.  Unless he gives you a reason (and you probably know the signs of that by now), try to let that rope out a little.  It's understandable that you would worry and have these feelings, but it would be best if you found another way to deal with them. 

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2019, 10:50:05 PM »
It's completely understandable and normal to feel stressed and to not trust someone who has betrayed your trust. I know the feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. No fun at all.

This is the perfect place to journal your thoughts to calm yourself down or sort yourself out. Rant, vent, whatever helps. You're among friends.

Quote
It's understandable that you would worry and have these feelings, but it would be best if you found another way to deal with them.
Exactly. Well said, Unraveled. DBD -What do you gain from driving yourself crazy? What does it do for YOU? What are some things that will be more helpful to you? Try to think about those things instead. Easier said than done, I know! I'm lousy at it.

Be good to yourself, DBD.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2019, 09:02:41 PM »
Unraveled and PJ... thank you.  Seriously, thank you for the support and the advice.  I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams the closer it gets to H getting back in town and I absolutely know it's my issue now and I need to get a handle on it. 

Today did not go well.  I am annoyed he has that condo and we went round and round through text on that.  Even though I question our readiness to live together, that condo represents cheating and betrayal to me.  His response?  I was cheating long before I got that condo.  Really? No kidding?  Thanks for throwing that right out there.  Things escalated from there.  I ended up telling him I was done with this marriage.  He made snippy and snide comments back and somehow we got to the point of him still not answering my questions but asking me to please consider giving counseling a chance before I made up my mind and that he'd call tomorrow and set the appointment.

I need to go hunt for that rubber band for my wrist.  I wonder if that will be a strong enough reminder to calm these raging emotions?????
 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2019, 09:34:41 PM »
Quote
His response?  I was cheating long before I got that condo.  Really? No kidding?  Thanks for throwing that right out there.
Dear Lord, what an awful thing to say! So sorry.

I don't know what else to tell you. I hope you're able to take some time to calm yourself and do the things that bring you peace.

My wife and I are seeing an MC and it's helping, but it's hard work and painful. I wouldn't recommend starting counseling until you want to. After all he's put you through, I think waiting until you're ready the least he can do.

((((Hugs))))
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online barbiedoll

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2019, 10:19:49 PM »
I had many comments to make about your post regarding appreciation , love languages etc ... and then I saw this .

Quote
His response?  I was cheating long before I got that condo.  Really? No kidding?  Thanks for throwing that right out there.  Things escalated
.

Well, we already know that the can be total assh&ts and did not really need more proof. Mine once said " well, you knew I was with other women before we got married "..... 35 years ago ??? ( no one can top that !) Escalate indeed. I am sorry that happened ...but it will. Triggers are a new and special kind of hell to deal with and they can last, well....forever. It is ok to be angry , furious and enraged . It is ok to let hurt out and frustrations known. Its actually a mandatory part of healing . I totally understand feeling bad about horrible things we might say, verbal abuse in some regard. I have had to apologize without doubt ( and he is LUCKY I could) . But healing is as much a process as MLC.. and maybe you aren't ready to play "nice " yet. Feel what you feel and let it out accordingly.
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2019, 01:33:26 AM »
I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams the closer it gets to H getting back in town and I absolutely know it's my issue now and I need to get a handle on it. 

Today did not go well.  I am annoyed he has that condo and we went round and round through text on that.  Even though I question our readiness to live together, that condo represents cheating and betrayal to me. His response?  I was cheating long before I got that condo. Really? No kidding?  Thanks for throwing that right out there.  Things escalated from there.  I ended up telling him I was done with this marriage. He made snippy and snide comments back and somehow we got to the point of him still not answering my questions but asking me to please consider giving counseling a chance before I made up my mind and that he'd call tomorrow and set the appointment.

I need to go hunt for that rubber band for my wrist.  I wonder if that will be a strong enough reminder to calm these raging emotions?????

I'm NOT trying to be "Nelly Negative" here but this, to me, REEKS of gaslighting.  He wants to go to counselling but he is maintaining a separate lifestyle, complete with separate living spaces.. Why? So he has a "fall-back position?"

It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and looks like a duck....
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2019, 10:26:37 AM »
The thing that trips my BS meter with him wanting counseling is that it seems like he still thinks he gets to call all the shots. He will call and make the appointment. How lovely.

To me it sounds like typical MLCer selfishness. I hope you do what you want to and when you want to.

Quote
But healing is as much a process as MLC.. and maybe you aren't ready to play "nice " yet. Feel what you feel and let it out accordingly.
Well said. I hope you can do what YOU need to do to heal and set the boundaries you need to set for your own health and sanity. If H needs to twist in the wind for a while, so be it. 

Oh, and W and I didn't even start counseling until 3 years after BD. I don't remember how far along you are, but I know that if we had started sooner it would have been a disaster. But that's just my experience. Your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:28:56 AM by PJ Ames »
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2019, 07:12:21 PM »
It's funny that people I have never met in person are becoming my lifeline in surviving this craziness.  Thank you all so much for commenting and giving me perspective. 

Barbie - Thanks for validating how I feel and reminding me it's okay to feel this way and let him know it.  My dad cheated on my mom and got caught right before I got married.  I don't know details.  I don't know if it was the first time.  I have no idea!  I do know he dropped her like a hot potato and spent the rest of his life trying to make my mom happy and she took every shot at him that she could.  My mom never got over the hurt and she keeps telling me I will never get over it either.  She keeps telling me to leave.  That I'm not "stuck" like she was since I have a good job and can afford my life on my own.  She might be right, but I need to do what I feel is right and I don't think I'm ready to give up on my marriage yet.  I do know I don't want to live how my parents did though.  I do NOT want to live that way.  I struggle with finding the balance right now. 

Ursa - You are SO right.  First of all, H is the master at gaslighting.  Quick little background, he used to be a cop (got fired for lying... shocker) and I'm a teacher.  He was my protector, the one who would fight for me, the one who didn't let anyone walk all over me.  He can be described as "you love him or you hate him" because he won't shy away from "telling it like it is" but I often felt like he possibly took that too far at times. I was the meek and mild school teacher who depended on him for everything.  Ha!!  Talk about being sucker punched.  Anyway, looking back I can see that he has been gaslighting me for so, so, so long.  I honestly don't even know if it's intentional at this point or not anymore.  That is something that gives me pause when I consider what my future would be like should we reconcile.

PJ - Lots to think about from you as always too.  Thank you.  I will say the counseling thing is a ball I put in his court.  I set up counseling THREE times in December which happened to be the last time he has cycled into being a complete monster.  Not saying it's the last time he'll do it, but as of now it's the last time he's done it.  Anyway, he would always come up with an excuse to cancel counseling.  Two of them were valid reasons, he needed eye surgery one time and the second time he had to see two eye doctors that same day before he left for work again.  The third time I can't remember what his excuse was, but I wasn't buying it and I told him if counseling was going to happen he was going to be the one to set it up.  So, here it is March and he's just getting around to it. I wish I had better boundaries.  I don't think I even know what boundaries are.  He knows that too.  He showed up at my house at midnight last night straight from the airport with a Blackhawks jersey for me.  I'm a huge fan and he knows that.  I'm sure he had an ulterior motive but he said he just needed to see me and wanted me to know he's been thinking of me.  We talked for a bit but that was the extent of that.  Maybe I do have a boundary or two :)

Anyway, it's been almost 24 hours since he's been in town and I haven't lost my temper or had an expectation of him yet.  Maybe I won't spend the next three weeks as a ball of anxious nerves.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2019, 02:01:12 AM »
Day,

My 2 cents from over here int eh cheap seats.... Unless staying up until the wee hours of the morning is part of your normal routine, H showed up at freaking MIDNIGHT to make sure that you were right where he left you and were alone...  and maybe do a little "cake eating" on the side if he could...   the jersey was an excuse, a "buy-in" to the game...

I don't know too many "normal" humans that would just "drop by" at midnight without calling first to make sure it was OK or that the person they were going to visit was even awake....
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2019, 10:34:22 AM »
Ursa, I completely agree with you.  I wonder why I feel myself pulling further away from him each time he does something "nice" for me, and maybe that is why.  Maybe I know in my heart that he's being selfish with his intentions and it doesn't have much, if anything, to do with him making things up to me.

I'm struggling a little today.  Something came up that reminded me just how long H has been gone from my life and all the things that he wasn't around for in my life.  The incident was minor, but the realization was like a slap in the face. Life has just gone on without him and I've been relatively happy.  He wasn't there for all the little things that make up daily life.  He says he saw the OW "once a week, if that" but all I can think is that he spent all that time going through daily life with her without a second thought about what he left behind.  Now, for whatever reason, he is coming back around and I just don't know if I will ever be able to truly forgive everything that has happened.  I just don't know.   
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Unraveled

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2019, 12:28:51 PM »
I think that maybe getting mad at them when they start coming around again is part of the process.  I feel that anyway.  I think before you are so overwhelmed and think you would do anything if only they would come back.  Then they start making overtures and it feels like, ah . . . I'm not ready for this.  I need him to do x,y, and z (which you know he will never do).  If we turn it over and look at it a different way, it is probably just that four letter word EXPECTATIONS (ok, maybe not 4) rearing its ugly head.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2019, 01:35:10 PM »
Sorry you're struggling, but I think it's normal to struggle. It's normal to feel disrespected when you're being disrespected. And to make mistakes when you're in an impossible situation.

I hear you on the daily life thing. I know I sometimes wonder how the last three years would have been if all this hadn't happened. How many good memories have I missed out on because of this nonsense?

You may be handling things better than you think. Take it easy on yourself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2019, 10:32:27 AM »
"Expectation" is the worst four-letter word there is :)

I'm trying to have absolutely no expectations for tonight.  We are going to go out tonight.  Happy hour somewhere, dinner, dancing... St. Patrick's Day celebration somewhere?  Not sure exactly what yet, but something along those lines. 

I'm not sure I'm ready for this, but I'm going to go anyway.  He's been asking me to go out and do something "fun" with him so we can forget about all of this for a night.  I'm not sure tonight is that night though!  Here's the thing, two years ago on St. Pat's Day he told me he thought he wanted a divorce.  Maybe that is my real BD Day?  I always assumed it was when I discovered his affair six months later, but maybe not?  Anyway, a year later I think he was on vacation with his OW.  I don't know for sure, but I know they went away together for a weekend in March and I think it was around this time.  So, even if it didn't happen over this day, in my head it did and that's bad enough. 

I'm trying to get myself into a good place mentally today.  I'm writing now to get it out there so hopefully I don't feel the need to focus on it tonight.  I'm going to go exercise, grocery shop, buy a fun new St. Patrick's Day shirt to wear out, and then come home and get ready.  I'm going to focus on it being a good day and a good time tonight.  I am his wife.  She is just the result of a MLC.  He went and lost his mind for the last few years and it doesn't appear that it's entirely back to "normal" yet either so I need to not have any expectations.  It still makes me shake my head that he knows he's "not quite right" but that he blames it on a minor car accident he had about a week after he started talking to his OW.    Anyway, I hope the luck of the Irish is with me tonight.  I hope it's with all of us!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2019, 02:28:29 PM »
Hope tonight goes well DBD. Hope you can stay in the moment and not let the past or future intrude too much. I'm telepathically sending you a four-leaf clover. Good luck!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2019, 06:38:14 PM »
Thanks for the luck!  I think I needed more of it though  :-\ 

We ended up fighting last night and he's over here now. It's not going much better today. It just seems like one things leads to another and it escalates quickly.  I think I'm realizing that he is not remorseful at all, but has a lot of guilt.  He feels like I am attacking him whenever I say anything so then he attacks back and then shuts down.  He wants to just sweep everything under the rug.  He said he's so tired of hearing about his affair and that I *always* go back to that and *everything* is always a fight.  He speaks in these "absolutes" and it makes me crazy.  I think it's because he did that before I found out about his OW and then he left for her. 

I am just so tired of all of this today. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2019, 08:32:46 AM »
Yeah, there's a big difference between remorse and guilt.

One way I've heard the difference explained (Thunder said this, maybe?): Remorse says "I'm sorry I hurt you, how can I make things right?" Guilt says "I told you I was sorry once, why are you still talking about it?"

My W has a lot of guilt but no remorse. It's frustrating. But I don't think we can make our spouses remorseful until they're ready to face what they've done.

Sorry you're tired. What can you do for you? Not the marriage, but YOU?

Be good to yourself!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2019, 12:58:38 PM »
Thanks for always commenting PJ... it really helps to hear from people. 

I'm not sure what I can do for myself at this point.  I am thinking of selling the house and getting an apartment or a condo.  I can afford my bills right now, but barely and H doesn't give me any money towards anything.  He says he can't afford to but I just found out he bought season tickets for the local football team. So... yeah.  I am mad.  I am hurt.  AGAIN!  He just doesn't seem to care.

I have shingles again for the second time this year.  This makes seven times in the last five years.  I need to get a handle on my stress, that's for sure.  I used to walk all the time to clear my mind, but I have gotten away from that lately.  I need to get back to it to see if it helps me with the shingles at least.  The last time I went for a walk for exercise was at Christmas when I found out that H met up with his OW at her brother's Christmas party.  It was all I could think of to do to calm my anxiety and panic but it ended up backfiring.  All that happened is I got about a mile away from home and I couldn't catch my breath.  Hyperventilating, I think.  I know that probably won't happen again, but that incident kind of took the "relaxing" aspect of my walks away.  I need to get over that.

I am ready for a good day to happen pretty soon!  H is still trying to set an appointment with the counselor but health insurance is having him jump through some hoops.  He wouldn't be setting an appointment unless he was interested in trying to work things out, right?  Or at least wanting to see if maybe they could be salvaged?  I work with a woman who gets in my head every time I talk to her and that is the cause of today's anxiety.  Her H is a cop and my H's OW worked with her H.  OW unexpectedly retired and I guess she posted on her fb page that she's going to, "Focus on being the best parent possible now."  My friend says, "Well, she's probably looking for a dad for those kids now and she's got nothing but time to pursue your H."  Yeah.  I guess she has a point there. 

I have to realize that whatever is going to happen, is going to happen.  Being stressed and upset about a possibility of something happening is stupid.  I KNOW THIS!  Why doesn't my brain listen :(
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2019, 01:16:17 PM »
Day...in answer to your question...probably bc you are afraid. And the hyperventilating could have been a panic attack. And the shingles are your body keeping score.

And it sucks, but it is normal for trauma.

Focus on anything that helps you feel calmer and stronger and more resilient in your body and mind. Walking, yoga, acupuncture, prayer, massages, breathing deeply, digging in the garden...anything...doesn't matter what it is. Find a calming phrase that works for you maybe, something that centres and grounds you...mine was 'all shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well'.

Let the outside things unfold as they will. Focus on calming and strengthening you so you feel more able to cope whatever unfolds. But we get it, we do.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Evertrying

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2019, 01:40:30 PM »
Hang in there DaybyDay,
I know this stuff is sooooo hard to get through and everything we tolerate never seems to amaze me. Kudos to you for putting up with the OW. I couldn't do that, but I was somewhat fortunate that my H ended his affair shortly after it was discovered. He knew even in his messed up head that he needed to get himself out of it and went through a period of withdrawl, but that was over a year ago. He made the decision to quit his job (they worked together) and that was the end of it.
I know we as LBS's aren't supposed to address the OW with our spouse, but I don't see how others do it.

I know you are living separated, but it looks like he still comes and goes as he pleases. Is that hard on you? Mine still lives with me so detaching from him is difficult AND he calls me numerous times a day to just chat. I try and stay away from him, but then he drags me back in with the phone calls.

Are you able to detach? Does he come over a lot unannounced?
Me: 56
MLC: 49
No Kids
BD - 9/1/2017
Living at the home, but I think Divorcing, no wait, maybe not, well maybe,,,,,The saga continues
Stop the rollercoaster, I think I am gonna puke.
The struggle is real

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2019, 05:44:59 PM »
Sorry about the shingles. Ouch! About your brain...  Treasur is right. You've been traumatized. What you feel is normal.

I think Treasur gave you great advice. Anything to help you relax. Could you maybe walk somewhere else first? A different place not associated with the anxiety? Or maybe while listening to Bach or Mozart or whatever relaxes you? Just a thought. Have you tried box breathing? (Google it if you aren't familiar with it). It's easy and it helps me a little.

I've had an anxiety attack myself. I woke up at three a.m. and found myself running out the front door completely claustrophobic and feeling like I was being chased by a tiger. I probably would have keep running down the street except I was wearing nothing but my boxers and it was COLD!

Hello Evertrying! Fellow live-in here. I've got a wallower. Fun times, eh?
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Offline Evertrying

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2019, 06:13:58 PM »
Hello Evertrying! Fellow live-in here. I've got a wallower. Fun times, eh?

Hey PJ! Oh yeah REAL fun times.
Mine is a live in everything all at once. Everywhere from a clinging boomerang to a wallower to a complete butthead!

DaybyDay,

I loved your comment on another thread about your H getting on a plane that he didn't think he would get on. Sometimes I stare in amazement at the things that come out of their mouths. I swear I am in the Twilight Zone.  ;D
Me: 56
MLC: 49
No Kids
BD - 9/1/2017
Living at the home, but I think Divorcing, no wait, maybe not, well maybe,,,,,The saga continues
Stop the rollercoaster, I think I am gonna puke.
The struggle is real

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #84 on: March 19, 2019, 08:38:07 PM »
Treasur, Ever, and PJ... thank you.  Trauma? Panic? Never thought those words would be used to describe my life 20+ years after I got married!  I'm sure no one ever does.  Definitely going to do whatever it takes to get back to walking.  I will look up box breathing and I also love the thought of getting into the yard to work this weekend. 

Treasur, I think you are right that what happened on my walk might have been a panic attack.  I don't know why I didn't think of that especially since it's happening at night sometimes too.  I didn't think of that either until your story, PJ! (Glad you didn't make it too far outside!!)  I was hospitalized for pneumonia just weeks before I found out about H's affair and it was really scary because I felt like I was drowning.  Since then, maybe once or twice a month, I have been waking up from dreams of feeling like I'm drowning.  I thought it was related to my memories of pneumonia, but the hyperventilating on my walk felt the same way so this is probably all panic related.  Oh wow, I just remembered that one of the first dreams I was trying to get the word "why" out and I couldn't because I was drowning.  I finally yelled it so loud because I was so frustrated I couldn't get it out that I ended up waking myself up screaming. 

Yes, Ever, H comes and goes all the time.  It's really a "fun" little dance.  He starts to come around after we talk on the phone and text for a few days and things are going well.  We spend time hanging out and it's fun.  My emotions get the best of me when I get triggered over something and I speak my mind.  He handles it for a little while until he runs basically through the walls to escape me as quickly as he can. It starts all over again the next day.  My most peaceful times are when he's out of town for work.  Also, it's probably unclear in my writing since I tend to ramble and go all over the place, but I am not one that can handle H having an OW.  When I first found out about it, he "broke up" with her and we "tried' to work things out for a few months.  He left then to go to his condo for "space" and denied up and down that he was "with" her.  He even denied it after he had my served.  My kids knew he was dating her because they MET her!  Granted, that was over the summer when we weren't talking so I guess he wasn't denying it to me then, but he did everything in his power to make me believe he wasn't with her even when he was.  Why?  I have no idea.  So, that makes all of this a little bit harder to deal with.  He swears up and down they're not together now but how do I believe that?  Especially when I saw a picture of them together at a party in December!  He has a story for that as well, but I don't buy it.  Says he was there to network with people who might be able to get him work and she wasn't even supposed to be there.  Ok. Sure. 

Ok, this was an enlightening discussion for me.  I am apparently a bigger mess than I even knew!  I guess maybe I'm spending too much time keeping myself busy and not enough time working through my issues.  Looks like that need to change.  Thanks again for the advice and just the listening ear.  I'm so sorry you guys understand what this is like, but I am so grateful to have you helping me through this.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #85 on: March 19, 2019, 10:10:30 PM »
Quote
I'm so sorry you guys understand what this is like, but I am so grateful to have you helping me through this.
I'm also sorry we understand, but we do. And the waking up in the middle of the night is pretty common for us LBS.

Work through your own issues at your own pace. I don't remember if you're seeing an IC for yourself? I think health insurance is more likely to cover an IC than an MC (mine covers IC but not MC). May be worth looking into if you're not seeing one already and you can find one that you like. Take care.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2019, 10:21:48 PM »
Isn't it odd to realise that yes, this is happening to us? I had my first panic attack at a train station, thought I was having a heart attack tbh...ended up on the floor, ambulance called...I then had to do that very English thing of dusting myself off and apologising for interfering with everyones' day! The second time I knew what it was though. I couldn't always stop them, but box breathing did head many off and eased me through them. And it is normal....if weird to experience.  Never ran around in my underwear though, PJ!

It is not weakness or something to feel ashamed about, Day, or a failure of thinking straight. Essentially your lizard bit of your brain thinks the world is full of tigers trying to kill you...it is an autonomic response not a conscious one. Your body dumps a whole load of stress hormones in one go and off to the races....and you probably feel like a truck has hit you afterwards....breathing deeply and focusing on your body is the key. And pretty common too to wake at 3-4am with anxiety...I became the Queen of walking for miles before the sun was even up bc my body felt too ant-sy to do anything else.

Hunt for calm and peace. Get selfish about it. Everything else will be easier to deal with if you can do that.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2019, 11:52:00 AM »
It's funny, but I feel a little bit better knowing that I am having issues with panic and anxiety.  I feel run down and tired, but I have been forcing myself to keep going and doing what I need to be doing and also to go out with friends and maintain a life.  I still think that's important to do, but I am going to allow myself to rest as much as I need to right now too.  I think this is all taking a physical toll on me and I'm going to listen to my body a little bit more.  I read somewhere you need to treat yourself like you're a critical care patient after trauma.  I didn't want to admit that I was traumatized, but clearly I am. 

On that note, H had eye surgery yesterday.  I didn't volunteer to take him to the hospital or pick him up or anything.  He didn't ask.  He had our son do it which was good.  My son drops him off at the condo last night after surgery and tells me, "Yeah, he seems fine so I didn't stay with him."  My "fixer" personality had a hard time dealing with him being alone after surgery so I texted him and said if you need anything to call.  He ended up calling a couple hours later and was talking about RANDOM, off the wall things.  I have no idea how many pain pills he had taken but it would have been almost funny the things he was saying if it hadn't been so concerning.  We ended up picking him up and bringing him to the house when he said he needed to take his patch off to put the Tabasco Sauce in his eye like he said I told him to do!  He swore up and down that he was at the house after surgery and I told him it had healing properties. LOL!! No. He also told me my mom, who lives 2000 miles away, came over to his condo to give him a recipe and I needed to be sure to get it back to him.  When we picked him up he had his pillow under his arm for the plane ride we were taking to Mexico for the trip I booked. Wasn't he disappointed when he figured out that wasn't happening. If anything, the boys and I got a lot of laughs out of all of this.  H is hearing about it today :)

Anyway, it was quite an eventful night so I'm a little tired today.  My emotions always get the best of me when I'm tired so I'm preparing for that as best I can.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline Treasur

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2019, 12:02:01 PM »
Sounds weird I know but it was a HUGE relief to me a few months ago when I accepted that I did have PTSD. Like breathing out. I guess bc accepting it also helped me see that there were things I could do and that it was a brain thing not a character failing!

Ah, MLC H on medically-required drugs sounds very funny indeed   ;D...much more fun version of WTF than without them! Hope he makes a decent recovery. More importantly, yup, hungry/tired etc does ramp up your system so please look after the good solid basics and your own oxygen mask first, my friend.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #89 on: March 22, 2019, 07:44:32 PM »
Thanks, Treasur.  Maybe I am realizing it's a brain thing and not a character failing too and that's why I feel some relief.  We had a very long day today at my son's track meet and I am taking it easy tonight.  I felt like I should be busy on a Friday night but I am putting my oxygen mask on, like you said, and staying home to rest. I thought I was getting a life by being busy every second when in reality I was just staying busy to keep my brain occupied.  It's time to learn how to be alone now and then and just BE. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2019, 07:06:35 PM »
We ended up spending a lot of time together this weekend and it went pretty well.  I texted him this morning to ask how to vacuum the pool since I spend Sundays working in the backyard and we have this archaic vacuum I can't figure out. Last summer I asked everyone and their brother if they knew how to work it and no one did.  One time last summer, during the thick of the worst of it to date, I told him it's the last thing I needed to learn how to do and then I wouldn't need him for anything.  He said something like, "Then you're going to have to figure it out yourself because I'm not showing you."  When I asked him about it today he said, "You don't do the pool maintenance."  I wanted to shoot back with something like, "Who do you think took care of everything when you up and left?" but I did not.  I said, "So does that mean you're going to maintain it?" and he just said, "Perhaps."  Then he comes over with gallons of acid and shock.  He spent a long time in the backyard cleaning a bunch of the equipment and doing who knows what.  I'm trying not to read too much into that, but it was nice to have some help around this place again. 

Anyway, we start counseling on Thursday.  I'm not sure if I mentioned that an appointment has finally been scheduled yet or not.  I'm getting nervous about it.  His version of our history is so skewed so I am apprehensive about what kind of nonsense I'm going to hear.  He also tends to talk over me when he disagrees with what I'm saying and that makes me angry.  I think I will just shut up if he starts to do that during the appointment and let the therapist voice her opinion on that. 

I think it's time to go outside and take a walk.  I am finally feeling a little better from shingles and it's time to make sure I make walking part of my everyday routine again!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2019, 08:45:47 PM »
Hope you had a good walk DBD. Glad your H is helping out a bit with the pool.

You can read all about my MC adventures on my thread, but here are the highlights of my experiences:
* There is no scoreboard. The counselor is not keeping points about who is right or wrong, but is there to help you work out your own problems.
* The first few sessions might be more about assessment. These might be a little painful, but it is necessary in order to help determine what needs to be worked on. You know how if you go to the doctor with a sprained ankle and the doc pokes it and moves it around to find out where it hurts? You might get some of that happening emotionally. It's normal to say ouch when a tender spot gets poked.
* Try to respond but not react. Stay in your rational brain and out of the fight or flight mode. Watch your breathing and posture before and during.

Don't expect any miracles but don't be nervous. You'll do well!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2019, 07:22:25 AM »
And stopping pointedly when H starts talking over you is good.... You can, if you feel like it, add "Perhaps you thought I was finished speaking?" Or "May I please finish without interruption?"

Heh......
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
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S - 12
D - 8
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BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2019, 04:32:39 PM »
Counseling went okay!  The woman we saw has been doing this for 17 years and is total no nonsense.  She gave us both our times to talk, shut us down if either of us tried to interrupt, and asked very pointed, guiding questions.  She wouldn't take his circular answers and kept bringing him back to her question.  She made it very clear that the affair needs to be worked through before we can even begin to discuss anything else and that it will take 18-24 months for us to completely process it.  She asked me what my non-negotiables were and I said I need him to not be in contact with her or her family.  He nodded his head in agreement and said "that relationship is no more."  I guess that's a good enough answer for now at least.  H was asked what his non-negotiables were (what he needs me to do or not do to stay in this marriage) and he said he would have to think about it because he didn't know.  We didn't really get in to much today because there's so much background for the counselor to get to know, but I like her control over the session and I think we both left there feeling "heard" and that hasn't happened in a long time.

We can't see her again until May though!!!!!  She's booked solid until the middle of April and H leaves for work again for his next three week cycle then.  Oh well... there is nothing about MLC that is in a rush so why should counseling be any different?  He did schedule the next three appointments with me before we left so that we can see her when he is back so I guess that is promising. 

Now I'm going out to dinner with two of my friends so the stress of the day is over :) 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline megogirl

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2019, 04:42:17 PM »
and he said he would have to think about it because he didn't know. 

That's a GREAT answer.

Because it shows that he really doesn't have any "non-negotiables"......nor should he. 

It was contrite answer.....as it should be.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #95 on: March 28, 2019, 06:00:04 PM »
I'm happy that it went well, DBD! Sounds like you got a good counselor.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2019, 05:43:11 PM »
It's been a good weekend.  For the first time in a very long time I'm feeling a little more peaceful.  Not consistently peaceful, but better than the constant state of anxiety I've been living in for two years or more.  I was reading more articles on MLC and I think I have my bomb drop date wrong.  The September 14 date is the day I found out he was having an affair.  I think the more accurate date would be 3/17/17 when he told me he thought he wanted a divorce.  I was completely taken by surprise and we had a huge fight that night.  We talked a lot and I thought we worked through some issues.  Things actually seemed to get better for a while, but that obviously wasn't the case since he secretly rented a condo in July and then I found out about his affair in September. 

I guess this means I've been in this mess for two years instead of a year and a half.  I guess that's "good" because MLC is a long journey and maybe he is a little further through it than I thought?  I know it means nothing really because it's going to take as long as it's going to take, and I really hate thinking of how long my life has been such a mess because of his issues.  I really want to work this marriage out but some days it gets so dang aggravating.  Anyway, I guess I'm just grateful for a little reprieve from the anxiety this weekend.  Walking daily has helped, continuing to go to church, small group, out with friends, involved with my kids, working hard at work, started to eat healthier... Hoping all of this keeps me on this steadier path. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2019, 12:24:29 PM »
Quote
Walking daily has helped, continuing to go to church, small group, out with friends, involved with my kids, working hard at work, started to eat healthier... Hoping all of this keeps me on this steadier path.
All good stuff, DBD. Steady as she goes!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #98 on: April 04, 2019, 08:22:47 PM »
Just writing down some thoughts that keep going through my head...

I have got to learn to keep some things to myself.  H sent me a text of a picture of the street behind my neighborhood where someone dumped a recliner, a couch, and some other stuff that was old and broken.  He made some comment about how ghetto that is and I really took offense.  I said something like how he's lucky he got out when he did before the neighborhood turned.  He made some crack back and then I let loose.  I told him his OW's neighborhood may be the place for him after all and he should stop wasting his time hanging out in the ghetto. (OW makes a lot of money and lives in a super fancy house in a ritzy part of town.  Our house is really nice, but it is not in the fancy location.  The "lifestyle" his OW has is a big source of insecurity for me.)

Later on, the next day, when I was calmer he told me he doesn't look down on this neighborhood or house at all and was just sending a picture because he hates when people do stuff like that.  That it wasn't an insult and he doesn't understand why I would jump to that and start fighting with him.  I told him he is crazy if he thinks that I'm not going to have emotional meltdowns every now and then and that he's going to have to learn to deal with them.  I didn't tell him this, but I think I was really triggered because last year I made some comment to him about how he's realizing the grass isn't greener where his OW lives and he responded by saying it actually is much greener there, that the landscapers do a very good job.  Anyway, he seemed to accept me saying that meltdowns were inevitable which surprised me.  Up until that conversation, he's pretty much wanted to sweep it all under the rug.  He did say he's sorry after all  :o

Anyway, today we went to see our son's track meet and it was pretty fun.  He's a thrower, but all the throwers actually ran a race today.  They were acting like a bunch of excited little kids when it was over and it was really cute.  H and I had fun watching it all too.  Last year, at meets, H would stand as far away as possible from me and if we had to talk it was painful.  Today, he's standing right next to me so close we are pretty much touching.  He was being pretty flirty the whole time.  He's kind of like a little boy in the schoolyard pulling a girl's pigtails in how he acts.  He makes this weird cricket sounding noise with his thumb and fingers and kept doing that in my ear.  We were standing against a fence and he kicked his leg behind him to get my leg.  All kinds of silly things like that that I had forgotten he used to do.  It was kind of a wild trip down memory lane.  Makes me anxious that the monster will be back soon... it's been three months since I've seen it though. 

Who knows what tomorrow will bring?  For now, it's back outside time for me to walk a few miles to settle my brain down a little more.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #99 on: April 04, 2019, 11:10:46 PM »
Hope you had a good calming walk DBD.

Sounds like you're learning more about yourself, what sets you off, and what you need to work on.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Each day has enough trouble of its own! I hope you can enjoy the time when the monster is away and not be anxious about its return.

Keep doing the hard work, DBD. You got this!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2019, 11:56:15 AM »
Just journaling some thoughts here... It's been a really bad couple of days.

I messed up and did all the wrong things and now I'm paying for it with my brain running wild.  I hacked into my H's iPad that he had at the house since he spent the weekend with us.

Anyway, despite his constant denial of talking to her, I saw that there have been some emails sent.  It's all in regards to the houses she bought in Detroit that he rehabbed her and they are very minimal... yet, he's still in contact with her and denied it up and down until I had proof.  He said it's just "not right" that he brings her into this business and then ditches her just because they don't have a relationship anymore.  That about sent me through the roof.  He did admit to that being a problem and that he didn't want to tell me about it because he knew I would freak out and that it's just business and that he's looking for ways for her to handle this on her own but he feels guilt right now.  This is going to be our next topic in counseling!

I found a screenshot from her brother in March thanking my H for the work he did a couple of years ago on his patio cover.  Weird.  Why is he sending a text?  Then, another text from her mom with a picture of the random snow we got one day in February.  Also weird.  Why is the mom texting him.  His answer?  She and her family "loved" him and still want to keep in contact with him because he's such a good guy.  (Seriously!!!???)  I asked how he responded and he said with just a word or two acknowledging the texts but nothing else. 

I found out about another vacation they had gone on in addition to the two I knew about.  I also found out about another concert they attended.  I guess I can't be mad about that stuff because technically it happened when we were "separated" and the divorce was in process.

I also found a naked picture of her that I did NOT need to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It said it was dated on February 25th and I am freaking out about that.  He said it was an old picture and has not gotten any texts from her in months, let alone naked pics.  I am not sure how the date says the 25th then.  He's either lying or maybe he took a screenshot of the picture somehow that day?  I will say there were no other pictures or memories of her anywhere else in his iPad so maybe he is telling the truth?  I feel stupid for even thinking there's a chance he is telling the truth.  I set up an appointment with our MC to just see me next week because I want to show her everything I found and get her take on it since she's talking to both of us already. 

What else?  I know there's more.  Oh!!  He bought me a ridiculously overpriced pair of exercise pants for Christmas.  So NOT my style.  I have lived on a budget for so long that $20 dollar exercise pants are more my speed than a pair that costs $100.  This also brings back memories of him seeing her at a Christmas party when he lied and said he was Christmas shopping for me.  I found an email of the receipt for those pants.  He bought her TWO pairs for Christmas!  He bought me a pair of pants that SHE likes?  Then he gave her pants at the Christmas party that he "didn't think she'd be at and they were just in the back of the truck and he just bought them because she gave him a present and he can't remember what it is now."  Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just typing all this out makes me realize how absurd this all is and how I need to go back to detaching. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2019, 12:34:34 PM »
Sorry you are having a hard time Day..

It sounds like he has an answer for everything, doesn't he? I think your gut instinct is right, it all sounds absurd and you need to detach (easier said than done)..  From the cheap seats it looks like he's not done with lying.. It reminded of something I read here some time ago:
- How do you know when an MLCer is lying?
- His lips are moving

It's a very sad reality we all need to learn at some point  :-\
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H is with OW in her home country  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2019, 09:15:59 PM »
Ugh is right! So sorry about all this. He really does seem to be having some trouble with the truth. He's probably told so many lies that he would have a hard time untangling himself from them all if he tried. He might not even remember what he told who.

I get the hacking into the iPad. I've done that to my W's phone and saw some things I can't unsee! But it's a real helpless feeling when your spouse is obviously lying and keeping secrets, isn't it?

What are you going to do with the pants? Destroy them in a viciously creative way? Donate them to Goodwill?

Even though you have every right to freak out, I do hope you're able to get back to detaching yourself from the ridiculousness.

Take care.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2019, 03:16:42 PM »
PJ, thanks for always responding.  I really appreciate it!  I don't know what I'm going to do with those pants.  I need to think on something GOOD! I should give them away since someone could probably get a lot of use out of them, but I feel like doing something evil with them just because I'm feeling angry!!!

One Day, you are so right.  I don't think he is done with the lying either.  It's so difficult because all last year, he denied being with her and now that I know all the time they actually spent together I can't even believe a word he says now.  Not a word.  Then, to be proved right that there is still contact?  How do I believe it's minimal? I don't.  A good friend of mine told me, "He's lying when he says hello."  That made me laugh in a very sad way.  I can't even believe him when he says hello.

Well, he left for his three weeks in Detroit this morning.  It stresses me out when he's around so I kind of welcome this break. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #104 on: April 11, 2019, 07:21:30 AM »
Just stressed out still this morning.  Sometimes when I write here I can let it go.  I've just lost that sense of peace that I had from detaching last year and I'm trying to figure out how to get back to that point.  I ended up rereading some text messages I have from the time he went on vacation with his mistress on September 10th to him leaving coffee on my porch the last two Sunday mornings in September.  He was an absolute monster before September 10th and all the way through maybe the 20th?  Then, all of a sudden the tone of the texts took a change.  He was texting about random things and not just about the kids.  Asking how I was, cracking jokes, sending memes.  There was just such a clear turn.  Then, he came over to apologize and beg forgiveness on October 5th.  Things have been a crazy dance of back and forth since then. 

I know this is all in God's hands.  I did nothing "right" to make him change his mind about her and come back.  I can't put pressure on myself to make this marriage work.  He's obviously proved he's going to do what he's going to do and I just need to focus on whatever it is that I'm going to do.  I know this to be true.  I know that even if I ask him to say something to reassure me or if he offers some reassuring words, they are probably all lies.  There are so many lies he's told when he was with her last year!  I just can't believe anything he says and that's a rough feeling. 

I guess he is just not out of the tunnel yet.  I need to remember that I am not dealing with someone who is thinking clearly.  Hopefully I can stay strong and stay occupied so that I don't obsess over this and start sending him text messages that create a fight or send him further back into the tunnel.  That is my goal for the next three weeks while he is gone.  I'm not going to solve any problems by doing that and I will only make things worse.  We have counseling set up for when he gets back so I will continue to make a list of things I want to discuss when we get there.  I'm so thankful I'm going to see the counselor next week!!!!!!!!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #105 on: April 18, 2019, 09:20:44 AM »
Well, Monster is back so I am taking a few steps back.  I went to see the counselor on my own yesterday and told her that H is lying and is still in contact with the OW and how I found that all out.  It turns out he is actually a lot more involved with her then he led on.  Shocker.  The counselor said what we all know, that any kind of contact is going to spark the affair.  It's like putting a recovering alcoholic in a bar.  She asked me what I could live with when I told her I wanted to save my marriage.  She asked if I could live with this forever and I said no.  She asked if I could live with it a few more months until the house he's fixing for her is done and I said possibly.

I talked to (fought with) H last night and asked him to tell me he would be done with her for good in August when that house is finished (the one he lied about even existing in the first place until I found out the truth).  He spun so many stories, gave so many evasive answers, blamed, yelled, name called, talked over me, cut me off, blamed me some more... monster.  At the end of our "conversation" he texted me he's sorry for his behavior and to have a good night.  I texted back when I knew he'd be asleep and said if he couldn't tell me that he will be done with her by the end of August that I was going to be done with him.  He spewed back that I "changed the deadline and the rules and conditions" like I always do.  Apparently, he thought I was going to hang around and let him choose between us until August.  NO.  That was not my intent with the deadline. 

Anyway, he is clearly not out of the tunnel and it seems he ran further in.  I found Hearts Blessings website and read all her articles and I understand MLC a little bit better now.  He is absolutely acting like a petulant child and if his affair partner mirrors that behavior, I am not envious of their relationship at all.  I am choosing to remove myself from this hurt.  It feels like emotional abuse and I will not tolerate it any longer.  He needs his space and distance from me and I need it from him.  He had the nerve to send me a text saying he's "so tired of us both and that it will be nice to not have any drama."  Great.  So glad you're tired of us both.  I didn't need to hear that. 

I'm finally seeing him for who he is at this moment.  So self-involved and only cares about himself.  I am the complete opposite of that but I have to cut him out of my life.  If not forever, at least for now.  I can't continue to let him hurt me and I am incapable of detaching and still having contact with him. 

Last year when we went through this, I was crawling out of my skin and so upset at the idea of not having him in my life.  So jealous that I knew he was going to get deep into a relationship with the OW and having a pity party about the unfairness of being left behind.  Now?  Today I feel okay.  I feel like even though she has a lot of money and takes him on trips and spoils him with gifts... I am not envious.  I know too much about how toxic their relationship was/is and I don't envy it at all.  I'd rather be alone and happy.  I am getting back to focusing on me and finding out what makes me happy.  I am done living on "high alert" and wondering if he's still in contact with her or if we are going to work this out or not.  This is all in God's hands.  I can't help him.  I can't fix this.  I can only take care of me.

That being said, I plan on taking some time off from the internet to truly figure out what it means to live this life.  I don't want to focus on MLC or on what he may or may not be doing.  It's time for me to let go a little more until I can let go all the way. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #106 on: April 18, 2019, 01:38:32 PM »
Hello,

Quote
He spewed back that I "changed the deadline and the rules and conditions" like I always do.

Now that's a treat. It's like a bank robber screaming, "Why did you install a time release lock? You know I rob every morning at 10:00 am. You are all rotten people!"

Quote
I feel like even though she has a lot of money and takes him on trips and spoils him with gifts... I am not envious.

Exactly, don't compare yourself to her. You are a much better person and deserved to be valued.

Quote
That being said, I plan on taking some time off from the internet to truly figure out what it means to live this life.  I don't want to focus on MLC or on what he may or may not be doing.  It's time for me to let go a little more until I can let go all the way. 

Great choice. I am unplugging next week myself. Detach and live your life. If you need us, we will be here for you. As they say in my neck of the woods, "We'll leave a light on for you!"

((((Hugs))) and more ((((Hugs)))

Ready

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #107 on: April 18, 2019, 02:24:27 PM »
So sorry about all this, DBD. Please don't blame yourself. I hope you enjoy some time away from the internet and get some fresh air. Do some living.

Peace out, DBD. See you when you get back.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2019, 03:36:02 PM »
I'm back after some time away and trying to just focus on living in the real world.  I'm on summer break from teaching right now and had to have surgery last week so I've got a lot of down time on my hands.  Perfect conditions for my brain to start over thinking things again.

H and I are not in any better spot.  Closer to divorce than ever.  He was supposed to go sign the papers before he left for the month for work but he didn't go.  I was surprisingly more upset at the thought of him signing the papers than I thought I would be.  I thought I was so ready for this to be over. For us to be done.  For a decision to be made.  I just can't let go for some reason.  I really and truly feel that we are not supposed to get divorced.  As much as I scream and cry that I can't take it anymore, there is something holding me back from finalizing it all. 

As it stands right now we are texting minimally.  Probably about 10 to 20 texts a day. I won't initiate it but I will respond to him.  He texts memories of old times and also checks on me since I just had surgery.  It's been "light hearted" in a way I guess. 

One thing that haunts me is an argument we had before he left where I asked questions I did not want answers to.  I asked him if he's going back to her.  He said he didn't know. Maybe. Yes. Probably.  That broke my heart to hear.  I don't know why I asked it. He then said something about he doesn't know what he's going to do.  "This.  Being alone.  This is what I want to do."  He said if he told me no, he's not going to be with her and then it ends up that he does I will say he's a liar and he's tired of being called a liar.  He went on to say he's a 46 year old man who doesn't go out to bars or anywhere else to meet someone so he would have no other options.  I wanted to ask him how he thinks I felt about entering the dating scene but I at least kept my mouth shut in that regard.  A couple of days later we were having another "talk" and he says he doesn't even remember saying anything like that.  Is this midlife crisis memory thing a real thing?  Is it possible he really does not remember some of the things he has said or done?  Either way... I need to stop asking questions I do not want the answers to.

Anyway, I will go and try to catch up on some of you guys now.  I hope things have been improving for everyone here!
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Offline megogirl

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2019, 03:52:40 PM »
Is this midlife crisis memory thing a real thing?  Is it possible he really does not remember some of the things he has said or done?

Apparently, yes.  Look for Shockandawe's threads and her sister can attest.  Her sister is a recovered MLC'er, and often talks about experiencing memory loss.

(I imagine it's like being really drunk??  Just my 2 cents lol)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 04:05:46 PM by megogirl »

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #110 on: June 12, 2019, 04:04:10 PM »
Welcome back, DBD! Hope you're on the mend physically.

Quote
Is this midlife crisis memory thing a real thing? Is it possible he really does not remember some of the things he has said or done?
Yes.

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2:  FA
W is still at home but says she's leaving.

Online DaybyDay1Topic starter

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Re: Trying to figure things out...
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2019, 05:27:40 PM »
So since I spill my guts about my marriage on this board... here goes more information!  TMI? 

I had to get my ovaries removed because I'm BRCA positive which means I have a genetic mutation which increases my cancer risk by a whole lot.  I was supposed to get this done six years ago but have been too chicken.  I figured I might as well do it now because I believe stress is a breeding ground for cancer and I also figured I might as well get all the chaos and emotions dealt with at one time.  Why not add medically induced menopause symptoms (mood swings and hot flashes) to my already spinning brain and broken heart?  Well, guess what! My doctor said those symptoms should have started within 24 hours of surgery.  It's been a week and I haven't had even an inkling of anything.  In fact, I will even dare to say that I feel more emotionally leveled out.  She said this is also a possible, yet rare, side effect. 

I feel like I am jumping the gun on all of this, but I even think this is helping me detach.  I have stuck to very minimal contact with H.  I only respond to his texts still.  He is lessening those texts by a LOT, but it doesn't even bother me.  I figured that would be his reaction.  I was expecting myself to get all upset like a junkie needing a fix, but I'm not.  I just keep thinking that everyone says this is what needs to happen and I'm going to trust the group consensus.  Maybe I've finally surrendered?  Maybe I've finally come to grips that this is ALL out of my control?  I don't know.  I don't know if I'll wake up tomorrow a hot flashing, moody, upset mess... but I do know that I feel somewhat peaceful today and I hope and pray with all my heart and soul that this continues.
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

 

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