Vanishing subgroup: Who else lost at least one kid when your spouse left?

[nah]

Before I started reading this forum almost five years ago (Yikes!)... I thought there MUST be something wrong with ME because my husband of 28 years ran out the door like he was on fire.  Then my in-laws turned their backs and some friends.... there just HAD to be something wrong with ME.  Then when I found Hero's Spouse, I felt a big weight off of my shoulders.  Thread after thread of people just like me that had their lives turned upside down because of THE MLCER....

Whew... Sure it still stung like a mo-fo but at least I realized I wasn't as a big of loser that my MLCer and especially myself had begun to believe. 

About a year after bomb drop, as soon as I started to get a little bit on my feet, my daughter began to heap huge piles of emotional abuse not only on me but also my mother and son who both still lived in the house.  I gave her an ultimatum, "speak with respect or pack your bags"

She packed her bags and left.  That was over three years ago and hasn't spoke one word to me since.  Just to add another layer of crap,...she is great friends with her father's affair partner.  So much so, she made their wedding cake!! 

Now, in the real world people rarely ask about the Leaver but they almost every time will ask me about the "kids". 

How do I explain that my own daughter refuses to speak to me?

Even on this forum... many (well-meaning, I have zero ill-will with the questions) posters over the years respond with, "Oh, she will be back, just give her time...."

IMO, I think I have a better shot at The Leaver coming back then my daughter. 

Here's why I started this discussion....

I LOVE LOVE LOVE The Vanishing Thread.... just another subgroup where we all have basically the same issues, and it does help to support each other in a group.

This will be like a sub-sub group, b/c it seems the disappearing kids only attach to disappearing husbands (I could be wrong but just something I have noticed over the years).  Most importantly just like the spouse's who run away like they are on fire... when the kids also run away,... it is all about THEM and THEIR insecurities.  Was I a perfect mom?  Hell no.  But I was a damn good one.  This I now know.

I know you are out there.... I probably could name most of you.  BUT.... I also know there are probably some newbies, or semi-newbies who think they maybe did something wrong to have their children turn their backs too b/c there are less of us that not only have MLCers but ALSO children who left also (sometimes called "flying monkeys").

[Milly]

Me, Nah, I'm one of us.

My oldest D23, sides with my H, loved the OW to start with, now doesn't like her at all but will tolerate her because 'I only see Daddy happy when he's with her.'

She had been away from home for 2 years by BD. She came for a holiday 2 months after BD, we had just found out abut H's affair and current OW. We were devastated. She sided with H, told me I deserved to be cheated on.

She was very hurtful to me and to D20. I told her that we were suffering enough, and if she couldn't be nice, she needed to go stay with her dad. She left during the night while we were sleeping. She didn't speak to me for almost 2 years. She eventually contacted me when she had a problem. Since then she's like a semi-vanisher. I might hear from her when she needs something, then not again for months. She speaks weekly to H.

[nah]

Yep.  A big reason I feel like I don't hear at all from my daughter is her father keeps an open wallet for her even though he's basically broke now.

He even said to me in a rare conversation, "She's bleeding me dry."

Honestly, if that's the only way to have a relationship, then they deserved each other.

[em5731]

I have 4 kids and 2 do not speak to me. My 2 older daughters treat me like crap. They sided with him even though they won’t admit it. One of my daughters is pregnant and I had to hear about it from my son. In my case I believe they went were the money was. I was very close to them before Bd. I can’t let it bother me anymore. They are also friends with the ow. They are all the same age

[nah]

My oldest D23, sides with my H, loved the OW to start with, now doesn't like her at all but will tolerate her because 'I only see Daddy happy when he's with her.'

btw... when I used the term, "flying monkey",... this is EXACTLY what I was talking about....

Why would she feel the need to rub that in?  Well-adjusted young adult do not behave like that.

My daughter has done the same thing when she speaks to my mother (knowing it will get back to me).
Things such as:

She have never seen him "so happy". (Really?  B/C he's on anxiety meds for the first time in his life)
"Dad is doing GREAT financially". (I know for a fact that he made 400+K before BD, and now makes about 50K)
"Mom is mean"  lol.... she said this to my mother.  I think my mother just MIGHT know me and knows I'm not "mean".

They are like mini-MLCers

[nah]

I have 4 kids and 2 do not speak to me. My 2 older daughters treat me like crap. They sided with him even though they won’t admit it. One of my daughters is pregnant and I had to hear about it from my son. In my case I believe they went were the money was. I was very close to them before Bd. I can’t let it bother me anymore. They are also friends with the ow. They are all the same age

Seems like a trend with daughters. 

My son is great and has been since BD.

[bvFTD]

Yes, my daughter's betrayal hurt me more than my husband's.

As many of us discover after BD, our spouses spent months leading up to the abandonment by stockpiling money and spreading vicious lies around about us. My husband told people I was withholding affection from him, that I was a cold, angry b*tch to him and that I was becoming irrational. 

My daughter, 21 at the time, was delighted to spend time with her dad when he left. She could party with her friends at her dad's bachelor pad condo in the city, go out to fancy dinners with him and accompany him on lots of fun trips. She was taken aback, however, when one of his young girlfriends joined them on a trip to New Orleans. My husband replaced her car she had damaged in an accident and got her a job in our store.

As I said, I was out of commission for about 2 months trying to cope with the trauma, but I still shopped, cooked, cleaned and took care of the boys. I don't know who put my daughter up to this, could have been a sister-in-law, my husband or someone else, but she actually came to my house, opened the fridge and conducted some sort of child welfare inspection to make sure I had food for the boys. The fridge was stuffed but what if it hadn't been I wonder?

I advise telling people what our spouses have done to us because they are busily going around trying to destroy us. He drained our bank account and ruined our credit. The bank called me while I was in shock to tell me the boys and I were going to be foreclosed on. I called our financial advisor to pull out some money and told her my husband, whom she knew pretty well, emptied our bank account, bought a condo, ran out on us and was bedding every woman in sight. She called back 5 minutes later to tell me she had spoken with my husband and he hadn't done any of those things! So the outcome was that I did indeed sound nuts!

I showed my daughter her dad's diagnosis and she told the boys I forged it! I've realized that the wall of denial is so thick in some people that it is almost impossible to penetrate it.

We detect the personality change first because we are the closest to our spouses and they direct their confusion and fury at us, but eventually they can't hide the sickness and it is revealed to all. I will forgive my daughter but I will never forgive some others. I can't even look at them.

[If_only]

I am so sorry for the loss of your kids love and affection. I’m not even a year into this but almost lost my daughter over it! She couldn’t handle if I spoke of her dad as she loved him so much! My kids were not speaking to him so I got the brunt of everything. However, just barely pulled the relationship with my daughter up from destruction and got counselling as adult kids need it as much as anyone. I did learn in the process that the only one I could count on is me ! And that was a harsh reality as well! I hope that in the future your relationships will heal but I know that with friendship of the OW makes it pretty impossible!  My kids haven’t met her yet and I don’t know how to get through that when it happens! I also don’t know how I would feel if they are friend of her in the future - it just seems so wrong and my  heart goes out to you on that!  In the depths of despair it is nice to have family in your corner!
Big Hugs:  If

[in it]

Thanks nah I was thinking about starting a thread with this subject. I lost both of my daughters after the DV incident things got pretty heated between us..they were my whole world. In a month or so it will be 5 years since I have communicated with them. Some days the pain feels unbearable. 

But they bought the exs crap that I'm crazy, so he will continue to lie to prevent them from knowing the truth.
Nothing I can do about it the only message I get is: be still.

I did hear some really good news about them from a friend who spoke to the exmil.  Broke right down in tears of relief to hear they are ok. One is away from him and the other isn't. I pray everyday for her.

[Shocked]

Interesting thread Nah, both my Ds, my xH stepdaughters, tried saying neutral. That hurt me. I wanted them to be mad at him too. He was their stepD for 22 years. I think they didn’t want to be a second choice for another dad. Their biological D left in a MLC when they were 2 and  4. (Yes this this my second time with this crazy. He was a monster and cakeeater. He is still with ow but I am glad about that!!! He’s still crazy self focused!!) I still think my girls would try to have R with their stepD but he just pops up once in a while.

[Velika]

I find this thread extremely heartbreaking. I wish for all of you that your children find a way to return to you.

My aunt had what appears in retrospect something very similar to what we see on the forum. My own mother for years refused to confront her, even when she mistreated my sister and me. Even when my aunt's behavior became so outrageous that even my mom had to take a stand, her daughter (my cousin) publicly sided with her mother.

However, as with every MLC story, there is a behind-the-scenes story. My cousin's husband shared some correspondence with my mom after this where he had confronted my aunt and criticized her harshly after mother and daughter had argued.

I think that many times children of disordered people do this, whether MLC, addiction, or other issue. I think perhaps it is a misguided attempt to show unconditional love, and perhaps even — secretly, deep down, maybe even subconsciously — the unconditional love and acceptance the child wishes her parent would show her.

I was reading an article the other night that in a disfunctional situation, a child will often support and "parent" a disordered parent, hoping this will help them recover, heal, and return — or become — the parent that child needs. All to say, if your child appears to be "siding" with their ill parent, it may be that what they are truly doing is trying to save or rescue them, believing, possibly (and of course erroneously), that your anger and lack of sympathy with that parent is part of what is preventing recovery. This could be due to the MLC parent's manipulations — but it also may just be the child's deep, subconscious drive.

Big hugs to all you mothers!

[OffRoad]

I was concerned for my D21 at first. She enjoyed the extra "Daddy Attention" she got since he was treating her more like a girlfriend, but she didn't see it at the time. She has since figured a lot of it out and knows which parent is there for her no matter what. But that may be the crux of the problem. The kids are so worried that their MLC parent will abandon them like they abandoned the LBS, they side with the one they fear will run away.

I seriously had the most horrendous argument with both kids at separate times (when we never argued before-disagreements sure, but never yelling at each other) and each one resulted in both of us breaking down into tears and just hashing it all out. The kids hurt, too, and they often only see that the LBS is a mess and is a terribly unhappy person. Well, no wonder MLCer left, they think. They don't grok that the reason the LBS is so unhappy is because they were treated like yesterday's garbage. No one would be happy about that. S got it better because he was here when it happened, but he doesn't want to lose his dad. And he knows I will be there for him.

I wonder if age is any kind of factor? You know, when the kids are kind of the age the MLCer appears to be, is a child more likely to fly? Or if the MLCer is a male, is a female child more likely to fly? It seems to be more prevalent with Ds and male MLCers.

[bvFTD]

Great observation, Off-road, about the age.

As I've mentioned before, my H starting spending most of his free time with his 20-something personal trainer before the abandonment. He even wanted us to double date with his PT and young girlfriend. After the second awkward double date I told my H we had little in common with them since we were older than their parents. H petulantly complained that I just didn't want him to have any friends.

He enjoys being with teenagers and young adults because he is young again. Others choose to be with people as immoral and disordered as they have become.

[nah]

However, just barely pulled the relationship with my daughter up from destruction and got counselling as adult kids need it as much as anyone.

I'm glad that worked out in your favor.  My daughter's counselor ended up being my SIL's bff and joined the "let's everybody hate Nah party".  My daughter started spewing psycho-babble nonsense at me, and I knew exactly where it was coming from.... That's my unique experience and why I personally don't trust counselors. 

[nah]

I wonder if age is any kind of factor? You know, when the kids are kind of the age the MLCer appears to be, is a child more likely to fly? Or if the MLCer is a male, is a female child more likely to fly? It seems to be more prevalent with Ds and male MLCers.

From what I see.... it's always (and I hate to use that word so if there's an exception, let me know) daughters in their 20's against the mother.

[hope]

All through this, my daughter exhibited some very suspect behaviour. It brought my own insecurities to the fore, because it felt as she was almost trying to fill my place at times and I began to resent her for it.  It's as if she couldn't understand that my husband and I had an intimate relationship together outside of her. Like she was competing with me somehow. It took me a long time to realise, that the same was true for her..I am not my husband's daughter and I am not my daughter's father and whilst we are one family, our one-on-one relationships are something altogether different. There is a lot of trying to establish where we fit in when a family falls apart this way....A lot of it is about FEAR and CONTROL. Everyone is in crisis whether they see it or not. We had lots of verbal fights and long periods of having no communication whatsoever. Both my children would bring up their father; something he'd said about me, or had done -  but I was never allowed to correct them, defend myself or respond in any contrary way. They would say..they just didn't want to talk about it. Huh? It used to drive me to distraction.. We live in different countries and so not spending the time together means a lot gets lost in translation. I think though that the father/daughter relationship at this age is complicated...more so when there's trauma and arrested development,  You're seen as the wet blanket for a time until they start to recover emotionally. It's so painfully unfair. But it's part of their growth and ours - you've just got to hope that you've provided them with the right tools to feel able to come back when their ready.

[nah]

  It's as if she couldn't understand that my husband and I had an intimate relationship together outside of her. Like she was competing with me somehow. It took me a long time to realise, that the same was true for her..I am not my husband's daughter and I am not my daughter's father and whilst we are one family, our one-on-one relationships are something altogether different.

Yes, I think this is true.  Another issue is before BD, the MLCer can plot and plan and build up a case against us before we know there is a game going on....  Shortly after BD my daughter was racking up hundreds a week on my and the MLCers debit card.  When I told her that I had to keep a close watch on funds and she couldn't use our card as her personal bank, she screamed at me, "It's not your money, it's dad's money".   .   She felt since he left, I should have to ask THEM for money to pay for things like the mortgage and utilities.   .

She was 23, worked full time, lived with me for free and had zero school loan debt.  All she had was a car payment.  When she decided not to pay her monthly payments, her father paid off the rest of the debt and complained to me that she was, "bleeding him dry".  I always had to play "bad cop" and lay down the law.  He gave in, every single time.  Once he left, I was just in her way to get every single thing she wanted from him.

[Milly]

Hope, my daughter would also say things my H had said about me, mean stuff, and if I tried to give my side she would cut me off and tell me she didn't want to talk about it. I found this really hurtful. I don't have many chances to talk to my daughter in person because she lives in the US. I last saw her in person July 2017, but I'm going to avoid talking to her in the future about H. If she brings up H, I might do what she did and say I don't want to talk about him.

[hope]

Oh Nah - I've been through EXACTLY the same thing. My husband sends a big allowance to our daughter 's account each month without fail -  she's almost 25! I think he has been too afraid to drop the rope. I'm not convinced that either of my children would see him in such a forgiving, empathetic light, had he failed to lighten up and support them financially. He did nothing for the first 2 years and in the beginning, i just saw it as plain dysfunctional, yet in hindsight, I believe it helped pave the way for what is now a genuinely loving relationship..He is so much more interested in their lives, cares for them, gives them advice etc. To give her credit, my daughter became really insecure about not being independent...and she did begin to take every opportunity that came her way. She changed and she grew until she finally got a great job just recently..I'm pretty sure she still receives a buffer - but I don't feel he's buying her affection plus rinsing your parents now and then is absolutely fine in my book. But before this 'awakening' these past few years, she probably racked up more air-miles than I could dream of; never had to worry too much about finding the rent, bought a car etc..CONFUSINGLY - at the same time, he was rejecting any grounds for spousal support because 1) I am of working age and best of all, 2) now that I've weathered the storm and managed to build an even better life, I have illustrated  that I am quite capable of paying my own bills!?
Yep..my children went through the same, 'it's Dad's cash and THEY should decide when and if I get help' which created situations where I had to go through them to get cash when I was in dire straits. Priceless.
But, they are just children and have no idea about marriage, parenthood or real responsibility. How could they? They take the path of least resistance - iI does hurt us so badly and it does feel disloyal...But it is not about us - Maybe they are experiencing the same backward, short-term thinking of the MLC.
 I think too, just like the MLC,, they're too busy running to think long-term, it hurts their spaghetti heads when they have those moments of clarity and understand see that their choices affect you as much as it does them. And in those moments of clarity - they are mortified.
In the beginning, my children were 100% behind me, they wouldn't even speak to their father..There have been so many stages - and at one point, my children would not come to me for anything, kept secrets, became dismissive and so on. I felt so lost and sick that this MLC had stolen my role as the kind of mother I had always been and still longed to be. It felt like the worst kind of punishment.
About 6 years into this journey and I've just survived my first Christmas ever WITHOUT my children. It really turned out to be the biggest breakthrough for me. I did a lot of soul-searching (and gardening) and realised that I am pretty happy. They were with their father - and recognised that there had been a massive shift - He had never been ALONE with the children at Christmas either and the strangeness was noted by all - probably never to be repeated.  I think they realised too late that they had hurt themselves and it must've scared them all a bit. I started getting messages from him about wanting to communicate better etc...So I recently signed divorce papers - and got crickets! LOL! I swallowed the terms and it didn't hurt one bit. I've been a single mother of sorts for quite a few years now, that painful relegation, that reduced role I see now, was an opportunity..I have so much more room in my head - Look at me posting on HS!! I'm building broken relationships with my children so they feel at ease in my life. They don't want to feel your pain Nas. That's what it's really about. I feel sure of that.

[hope]

Milly - it's really hard isn't it..like not mentioning the elephant in the room. I still fall into the trap, but I am getting better at seeing it for what it is. It is painful for them too and I do know that they do the exact same thing to my STBX too. I do think shutting them down by saying that you don't want to discuss it implies that you might have feelings - God forbid! So maybe just try your hardest not to engage beyond "oh really" or "that's nice".
Truth is, it's incredibly insensitive and in all other areas, my children are two of those most compassionate empathetic characters you'll ever meet...except when it comes to me for some reason. 

[in it]

After reading Green Apples thread maybe I am currently better off without them in my life.It makes me very sad when I think about it so I try not to dwell too much on it.

At the very least I look at this period of no contact is none of us are doing any more emotional damage to each other than has already been done.

Healing takes time.

I had been on another site in which parents who were still married and thought they had provided a good life for their children.When the children were old enough left the house and didnt have any contact with either parent.

[nah]

My oldest sister very rarely talks to my mother.

uummm.... she's my mom too.  Yes, my sister is the oldest (nine years older than me ) and might have had different experiences but our mother is awesome.  In fact, my sister had her kids young and my mother had them ALL THE TIME.  If she was so bad, why let her raise the kids?

There isn't always a good reason.  My mom was there, she cooked our dinners, made our clothes, she was kind and loving, she was a great mother and grandmother. So what's the problem?  My sister is selfish.  Plain and simple.

[Savoir Faire]

I have a similar story to some of you.

For about a year to 18 months before BD, H would belittle me in front of the children as often as he thought he could get away with.  It would be about stupid things, trying to make me look bad, making my decisions look as if they were wrong and he would laugh at me in front of them.

A few months after BD, H closed our bank accounts and took everything for himself.  He gave me a small allowance for food but that was it.  If I ask him for more he would say to the children "see I told your mother was a bad person, she's trying to send me broke, she doesn't have a clue about money". He would play the big victim and make me look as bad as possible as often as possible.

Not long after BD, my daughter who was about 19 at the time, started to become his wife rather than his daughter.  H would take her to the bedroom and she would sit there listening to things that happened to him during the day, giving you advice and sympathy about his terrible life with me.

This began to have an effect on the boys as well, as H kept telling them how hopeless I was and the more you told them, the more they believed him.

H left the house 18 months after BD and came back two months later to move three of our four children out of the house.  He had being gaslighting both me and them and I had no clue what he was up to.  I am absolutely positive that H believed what he was saying was true and at this point in time he was completely crazy.

My S 21 lives is with me and always has, one son visited a couple of times, another son is slowly creeping back but my daughter who is now 22 never contacts and apparently is friendly with the OW. I have not seen my daughter for three years and have had little contact with the other two boys during this time.

H even went to the extent of getting the children to supply him with statutory declarations to discredit me during our financial settlement.  He is a real piece of work.

I'm not sure what will happen in the future with the children, I feel the two boys will probably come back but my daughter will have a lot of explaining to do and needs to apologise for all the terrible things she has done.  She also told H about me on this forum, he found my thread and tried to use it against me.  I had to change my forum name although I no longer care if he reads or not.  Savoir Faire's story starts a year after BD and the story is fictitious.  Probably about time I had my old thread moved up for continuity.
 

[Nxsta]

Interesting read ... after a complete lack of respect to both me and her siblings i kicked d22 out last week. She was lying, would go out for the night and not come home for days with no communication etc. 

I have tried to reach out in terms of telling her i love her and my hand was forced for my own wellbeing.  She reads the messages and doesnt reply.  My greatest concern is that i had confided in her for the 6 months since BD.  She knows things that I wouldnt want H to know (ie i am seeing the same psychologist as him) but in her hateful state she is likely to do or say anything that hurts me now.

It's tough to deal with MLC and what now feels like estranged daughter (our family of five were so close before all This!)

[dogwalker]

What a great timely thread. Thank you so much for starting it as I am now at a similar stage.

At the start after BD1. S27 and S23 couldn’t have been more supportive.  W left and moved in with OM. Over the first Year
W saw the boys every 8 weeks and would respond to texts after 2 few days delay. Then I allowed her home which lasted
A few days and then BD2, Same pattern for 9 months and then she asked to come back to  me again which I allowed. S27 wasn’t
Happy with me to try a third time and told me I was stupid and she wouldn’t stay. He hardly spoke to either of us for 2 weeks and
After 4 weeks BD3 and W left. S27 reminded me of his earlier view but I said it was my life and me to learn from. But BD3 was the end for me
And for the last 12m I have been NC and later this month the D will complete. Over the last 6 months W is now seeing S27 and DIL2b weekly and
I go weeks without seeing them. If Im lucky I get a text if they need something otherwise it will be a nasty text venting at me having done something wrong
but they never ask how I am. W is involved in their wedding plans and last week
I got my invitation to the wedding and found out the only other person to attend from my family is my father and yet W has 7 members of her family.
I also got told by the wedding couple how important it was for W to have a “wonderfull day at the wedding” How did I deserve to become the bad person
S27 and DIL2b have now taken a big dislike to my GF and they bully S23 to follow their view.

I just feel so sad about it all. It’s horrible I miss them but when I see or hear from them its just an emotional beating similar to the early days when see
W after each BD.  I ask friends and family for advise but no one seems to have the solution other than to give them time. I am sadly coming to the conclusion
That I just need to look after myself and do what makes me happy. We were so close before MLC but not its like they have chosen sides and I am not in the gang. I must have lost as many tears on this as I did at BD1,2,and 3

DW

[Savoir Faire]

Sorry Dogwalker, it's horrible to lose your family when it was the MLCer who blew everything up.

I leave my MLCer to his crisis and the kids to their own demons.  I can't fix any of them and would never try something like that these days.

I was a loving mother to those children, I did very little wrong. I may have been emotional following BD but I can be forgiven for that, surely?

I have a happy life with my S21 and for that I am grateful.

[dogwalker]

Thanks SV
S26 was always closer to his mother.I think deep down I knew for whatever reason he would side with her.
I dont think he has dealt with any of the marriage break up and is so happy for his mum to be back in his life he
doesnty care about hurting me. I know he bullys his brother to see her more as my Father overheard them.

[LisaLives]

Andrew Root, The Children of Divorce, best read ever to help you understand the kids.

I seldom get on here, but I came back to post an article, check that out, too, Harriet Lerner on why you will probably never get that apology... 

I saw this thread.  Timely for me.  I am a little over eight years from BD.  My son, then in ninth grade was forced to go live with his dad for a semester and has stayed with him and OW ever since.  He was just back HOME--he still calls this home and has more friends here in mid-Missouri than he has in Virginia--and every year, I understand more about this adventure we all embark on when they leave.  I also have seen so many other RL families deal with this trauma, and all I can say is patience.  I know it's hard, really hard, but LIVE YOUR TRUTH, and be patient. 

I am thankful now, for all those years apart.  I could go into so much detail, lots of speculation, but I still don't really know how my story ends.  Neither do you.  Remember this is a marathon, and while the sprint you're in seems hard, and it is, keep your eye on the long term.  When you die, what do you want everyone to say and remember about you?  So much resolves itself, so much gets uncovered, be true to yourself, never, ever let anyone change you for the negative, and let time sort everyone else out.  I am thankful for the life I have.  It is not the life I wished for, or planned for, or ever thought I would have, but it's a damn good one, and you need to think the same way.  Always be that lighthouse, if not for that spouse, for your kids, if they never choose to acknowledge it, it was not your fault, but most likely, it will matter and it will not be long before they tell you.  Love and light, LL

[OffRoad]

People will lie about you. Live your life so that no one will believe them.

[dogwalker]

I had another clash with S27 this weekend. Its almost like talking to his mother when she monstered to me.. Can it be possible that he is monstering at me as part of his process to accept his parents marriage is no more?

[nah]

I had another clash with S27 this weekend. Its almost like talking to his mother when she monstered to me.. Can it be possible that he is monstering at me as part of his process to accept his parents marriage is no more?

IMO.... their behavior is very similar to MLC (or whatever it is that happens to our spouse).

I really don't think them rejecting us really has anything to do with us or how we were as parents.  I have a rare kind of MLCer where he actually admits (from the very beginning, and even now five years later) that I was a "great mother and wife", and we have, "really great memories"... yes my MLCer has said and wrote this to me more than once. 

So why are backs turned? 

His explanation for him is he "changed" for our daughter well, she won't talk about it. 

She refuses to talk about it b/c she has nothing except her own selfishness.  Her father gives her money and I expect her to behave like an adult.

We can spin around in circles about what we did wrong or what we should do to try to "fix" them. 
Or we can let go and do what "LisaLives" says and LIVE OUR TRUTH. 

[bvFTD]

dogwalker:

I think our children get angry at us because we are the safe target. Even if they don't admit it, they must realize after awhile that something is very wrong with the parent who abruptly left, that the entire situation is shocking, unfathomable and should never have occurred, and that the Abandoner is entirely to blame for the destruction of the family.

My youngest tore into me a couple times in his confusion and despair but I gently told him we are all hurting and we must be kind to each other.  I worry about the kids who live with the MLCers full-time potentially adopting some of the MLCer's callous and cruel traits. They are not good role models.

[bvFTD]

Nah:

I also must agree with you that some of our kids who behaved reprehensibly from the beginning and throughout the years are most likely shallow, selfish people, which is so sad to realize. I guess MLC reveals the true colors in friends, in-laws and even in our children.

[dogwalker]

 
Thanks bvFTD I do believe we are the easy target. And I also agree that my S is shallow and can be selfish.
But I also think that he is very young and has little life experience. In his world there is only black and white with
No in between. Where as I have learnt over the last 2+ years that life can be a b!tch and you have to be flexible
Mindfull and patient with people as everyone has some kind of issue they are dealing with
I’m am seeing S27 tonight. I aim to be open and approachable but if I see the monster I will depart
DW

[nah]

Today my 32 year old niece flew home for her baby shower. 

My niece and her twin sister and another female cousin basically spent every non-school moment growing up at my house.  We use to joke that they got dropped off June and went home in September.  All four cousins (and my poor son who was surrounded by girls) were very very close.

My daughter didn't show up to her favorite cousin's baby shower.

Now many family members know of the situation but some of my niece's friends didn't know b/c my niece moved away about four years ago.  They just assumed they would also see my daughter who use to be glued to her older cousins' sides.

No.... she no longer talks to the family.

Why?

umm....  I really don't know, you would have to ask her.

Two of my other (younger) nieces brought up, "but... it doesn't make sense.... you are the fun aunt... what's her problem?"

My mother jumped in (with tears in her eyes), "I've asked her, she says she doesn't want to talk about it.  She no longer calls me b/c I asked."

Wait a minute.... She doesn't talk to her grandmother either? 
Nope.

Her cousins?
Nope.

Her brother?
Nope.

The new addition to the family was there,,...My nephew's one year old adorable little girl... I wonder if my daughter even knows she exists. 

Who is she punishing?

[em5731]

Its sounds like maybe depression. Or just plan avoidance. My 2 daughters are doing the same to me. Its sad she is missing out on so much.

[In the valley]

I just found this thread.  I lost my daughter about 6 months after my XW left.  From the beginning my W tried to get my D to go with.  She was very conflicted but decided to stay.  Her mom worked on her and would bash me with her as a way for the two of them to connect.  Very MLC like.  My D was becoming more n more disrespectful until she went off on me one day.  She then decided to move to her moms and not have any contact with me, just like her mom.  Now its like boys vs girls because my boys won't talk to their sister, they barely talk to their mom.  Neither daughter or X talk to me.  It very immature and silly but bottom line is it's sad and tragic for our once happy in tact family.
My XW stopped responding and paying her portion of the medical expenses 2 months ago.  So have not had any contact at all in about 3 months.  Idk if she just thinks ignoring it will make it go away.  I realize I'll have to take legal action, just waiting until there's enough owed to make it worth while. 

[nah]

Sorry that you are also going through this pain, ITV.

All I can say is live your truth, know you did nothing wrong and hope for the best but keep expectations low.

I did recently find out some information.
Now, I'm further along than you, almost six years post BD and almost five years post my daughter leaving.

For the first few years, they had gatherings, birthday parties, my daughter made gourmet cupcakes for their wedding.  This Thanksgiving she did NOT attend the holiday with her father.  In fact, none of the in-laws did.  Trouble in paradise?  Most likely.
Also, just recently my daughter has reached out to some of her cousins, so it's a step.

[Shelly7435]

My D moved out the end of October.  One of her reasons is because I didn't make dinner.
She would get home from school about 3pm. I would get home at 5ish. Say I was making "blah blah" for dinner. She would say wait to make it. Or she didn't want that. So I would make it and she wouldn't eat.. But at 10pm she would be hungry .. I'd say that I made whatever it was..No she didnt want that. Went on for months.  I would go to the store and ask her what she wanted.. I always got nothing. So I guessed .. The freezer was full of stuff the pantry too... I even said go to the store and get what you want.. I'll pay for it...she wouldn't. I finally gave up... She has as silly of as reasons as X for leaving in my opinion.

[In the valley]

Thanks Nah.
Shelly with mine it is very much like she just wanted to mimick her mom's behavior.  I also think she just couldn't deal with what her mom did without normalizing it and part of that was to cut me out of her life the way her mom did.
I relate and sympathize with both of you.  My expectations are very low at this point.  I've heard I should keep sending Christmas cards and birthday presents, stuff like that.  What do others do in this situation?

[nah]

What do others do in this situation?

I wrote messages to her the first few years and then I stopped. I just reached a point in my life where I refuse to be bullied by anyone, even my daughter. 

I don't think there's a good rule for this, just do what you feel is right.

[Treasur]

Itv, my take as a non-parent fwiw...your daughter is still a teenager not yet a full adult, and also it affects your sons. So I would keep the door open with small predictable bits of contact....Christmas card and small gift, same for her birthday, maybe a short note or email every few months in the birthday/Xmas gap with a low key update of life and hello. Unless they are sent back to you or she asks you to stop.

Somewhere RCR says that, although an LBS sometimes needs to go NC for their own protection, it is easier for someone to reconnect with an MLCer if not all of the bridges are burned completely and replaced with a very high wall. If they can see a few breadcrumbs on a small trail...I would imagine the same is true with a young adult even with the natural self-centredness of that stage of life. I'm sorry though bc it must be hard for you and I hope you can take encouragement from other stories here where they can drift back after a period of time too.

[In the valley]

Thanks Treasure,
That's basically the route I'm taking.  Sending cards and small gifts for major events. 

I know this sounds bad but life actually improved quite a lot when my daughter left.  She was just constantly looking to pic fights and full of toxic negativity.  Her mom had her convinced this whole situation was my fault and she had no choice but to leave because she couldn't live with me anymore.  It was all nonsense but my daughter heard everything I'd ever done wrong so her mom could justify the nonsense.  I know it's not really her fault and she is just a teenager, that's why I don't want to give up.  Things are much more peaceful now though and I have more time and resources to focus on the boys.  After everything that's happened, I'm reaching acceptance I think and I have no real expectations.  Focusing on what I can control I guess and working on my own life. 

[Treasur]

It makes perfect sense, itv. Not very different from desperately wanting our spouses to stay and then being surprised to realise that life is less hard in some ways when they go.

Acceptance and a steady consistent course is all any of us can do.

[Keep believing]

Shelly,
It sounds as if your d wants some control in her life since she did not get any say in what happened. Many children (regardles of age) feel this when when parents split. That they had no say.  I think this is probably what most of the abandoned kids feel. They need some sort of control.

[nah]

Interesting article.

https://pro.psychcentral.com/recovery-expert/2017/08/when-your-kids-turn-against-you-in-favor-of-the-narcissistic-parent/?fbclid=IwAR0yNaAqaIHg-SXW8BhRgAUuJYrRiv_kns1p6qzWJ1OSk1nWeqCfERd96nM#.XJU2Ji8MC0J.facebook

[Milly]

Itv, my D24 cut off contact with me right after BD and sided with her dad. After 2 years of not hearing from her at all, she started contacting me again. I had regularly sent her messages and gifts for birthday etc. We had been getting closer and closer until a recent event.

However, my D21, who had been openly angry at her dad since BD, cut off her dad completely when H and OW sued her. H doesn't try to contact her at all. His excuse is he's blocked, which he's not. Perhaps he thinks if he writes, she'll ignore him. It's possible. I do understand that it's frustrating to keep reaching out to our kids and get absolutely nothing back from them. I say this, because I'm going through this again with D24. I am very tempted to ignore her. It's easy to not care for her, to not want to even acknowledge her special days.

However, I'm very close to D21 and even though she'll never admit it, I know she misses her dad. I think she'd appreciate a message from him even though chances are, she'll ignore it. Or maybe she'll ignore it until one day she's not as mad and might answer. I don't know, but because I sense that D21 secretly would like to hear from her dad, whom she's really mad at, I message my oldest D about once a week. Just in case she is suffering and does need to know I'm still here.

[dogwalker]

That’s a good plan milly. Regardless of what’s
You do or don’t get back or what people
Tell you to do. You do what works for you
Because at the end of the day you need
To look in the mirror and be able to say
I tried and I tried and there was nothing
More I could have done. Well done you
That’s what I think parenting is.
DW