Vanishing subgroup: Who else lost at least one kid when your spouse left?

[Velika]

I find this thread extremely heartbreaking. I wish for all of you that your children find a way to return to you.

My aunt had what appears in retrospect something very similar to what we see on the forum. My own mother for years refused to confront her, even when she mistreated my sister and me. Even when my aunt's behavior became so outrageous that even my mom had to take a stand, her daughter (my cousin) publicly sided with her mother.

However, as with every MLC story, there is a behind-the-scenes story. My cousin's husband shared some correspondence with my mom after this where he had confronted my aunt and criticized her harshly after mother and daughter had argued.

I think that many times children of disordered people do this, whether MLC, addiction, or other issue. I think perhaps it is a misguided attempt to show unconditional love, and perhaps even — secretly, deep down, maybe even subconsciously — the unconditional love and acceptance the child wishes her parent would show her.

I was reading an article the other night that in a disfunctional situation, a child will often support and "parent" a disordered parent, hoping this will help them recover, heal, and return — or become — the parent that child needs. All to say, if your child appears to be "siding" with their ill parent, it may be that what they are truly doing is trying to save or rescue them, believing, possibly (and of course erroneously), that your anger and lack of sympathy with that parent is part of what is preventing recovery. This could be due to the MLC parent's manipulations — but it also may just be the child's deep, subconscious drive.

Big hugs to all you mothers!

[OffRoad]

I was concerned for my D21 at first. She enjoyed the extra "Daddy Attention" she got since he was treating her more like a girlfriend, but she didn't see it at the time. She has since figured a lot of it out and knows which parent is there for her no matter what. But that may be the crux of the problem. The kids are so worried that their MLC parent will abandon them like they abandoned the LBS, they side with the one they fear will run away.

I seriously had the most horrendous argument with both kids at separate times (when we never argued before-disagreements sure, but never yelling at each other) and each one resulted in both of us breaking down into tears and just hashing it all out. The kids hurt, too, and they often only see that the LBS is a mess and is a terribly unhappy person. Well, no wonder MLCer left, they think. They don't grok that the reason the LBS is so unhappy is because they were treated like yesterday's garbage. No one would be happy about that. S got it better because he was here when it happened, but he doesn't want to lose his dad. And he knows I will be there for him.

I wonder if age is any kind of factor? You know, when the kids are kind of the age the MLCer appears to be, is a child more likely to fly? Or if the MLCer is a male, is a female child more likely to fly? It seems to be more prevalent with Ds and male MLCers.

[bvFTD]

Great observation, Off-road, about the age.

As I've mentioned before, my H starting spending most of his free time with his 20-something personal trainer before the abandonment. He even wanted us to double date with his PT and young girlfriend. After the second awkward double date I told my H we had little in common with them since we were older than their parents. H petulantly complained that I just didn't want him to have any friends.

He enjoys being with teenagers and young adults because he is young again. Others choose to be with people as immoral and disordered as they have become.

[nah]

However, just barely pulled the relationship with my daughter up from destruction and got counselling as adult kids need it as much as anyone.

I'm glad that worked out in your favor.  My daughter's counselor ended up being my SIL's bff and joined the "let's everybody hate Nah party".  My daughter started spewing psycho-babble nonsense at me, and I knew exactly where it was coming from.... That's my unique experience and why I personally don't trust counselors. 

[nah]

I wonder if age is any kind of factor? You know, when the kids are kind of the age the MLCer appears to be, is a child more likely to fly? Or if the MLCer is a male, is a female child more likely to fly? It seems to be more prevalent with Ds and male MLCers.

From what I see.... it's always (and I hate to use that word so if there's an exception, let me know) daughters in their 20's against the mother.

[hope]

All through this, my daughter exhibited some very suspect behaviour. It brought my own insecurities to the fore, because it felt as she was almost trying to fill my place at times and I began to resent her for it.  It's as if she couldn't understand that my husband and I had an intimate relationship together outside of her. Like she was competing with me somehow. It took me a long time to realise, that the same was true for her..I am not my husband's daughter and I am not my daughter's father and whilst we are one family, our one-on-one relationships are something altogether different. There is a lot of trying to establish where we fit in when a family falls apart this way....A lot of it is about FEAR and CONTROL. Everyone is in crisis whether they see it or not. We had lots of verbal fights and long periods of having no communication whatsoever. Both my children would bring up their father; something he'd said about me, or had done -  but I was never allowed to correct them, defend myself or respond in any contrary way. They would say..they just didn't want to talk about it. Huh? It used to drive me to distraction.. We live in different countries and so not spending the time together means a lot gets lost in translation. I think though that the father/daughter relationship at this age is complicated...more so when there's trauma and arrested development,  You're seen as the wet blanket for a time until they start to recover emotionally. It's so painfully unfair. But it's part of their growth and ours - you've just got to hope that you've provided them with the right tools to feel able to come back when their ready.

[nah]

  It's as if she couldn't understand that my husband and I had an intimate relationship together outside of her. Like she was competing with me somehow. It took me a long time to realise, that the same was true for her..I am not my husband's daughter and I am not my daughter's father and whilst we are one family, our one-on-one relationships are something altogether different.

Yes, I think this is true.  Another issue is before BD, the MLCer can plot and plan and build up a case against us before we know there is a game going on....  Shortly after BD my daughter was racking up hundreds a week on my and the MLCers debit card.  When I told her that I had to keep a close watch on funds and she couldn't use our card as her personal bank, she screamed at me, "It's not your money, it's dad's money".   .   She felt since he left, I should have to ask THEM for money to pay for things like the mortgage and utilities.   .

She was 23, worked full time, lived with me for free and had zero school loan debt.  All she had was a car payment.  When she decided not to pay her monthly payments, her father paid off the rest of the debt and complained to me that she was, "bleeding him dry".  I always had to play "bad cop" and lay down the law.  He gave in, every single time.  Once he left, I was just in her way to get every single thing she wanted from him.

[Milly]

Hope, my daughter would also say things my H had said about me, mean stuff, and if I tried to give my side she would cut me off and tell me she didn't want to talk about it. I found this really hurtful. I don't have many chances to talk to my daughter in person because she lives in the US. I last saw her in person July 2017, but I'm going to avoid talking to her in the future about H. If she brings up H, I might do what she did and say I don't want to talk about him.

[hope]

Oh Nah - I've been through EXACTLY the same thing. My husband sends a big allowance to our daughter 's account each month without fail -  she's almost 25! I think he has been too afraid to drop the rope. I'm not convinced that either of my children would see him in such a forgiving, empathetic light, had he failed to lighten up and support them financially. He did nothing for the first 2 years and in the beginning, i just saw it as plain dysfunctional, yet in hindsight, I believe it helped pave the way for what is now a genuinely loving relationship..He is so much more interested in their lives, cares for them, gives them advice etc. To give her credit, my daughter became really insecure about not being independent...and she did begin to take every opportunity that came her way. She changed and she grew until she finally got a great job just recently..I'm pretty sure she still receives a buffer - but I don't feel he's buying her affection plus rinsing your parents now and then is absolutely fine in my book. But before this 'awakening' these past few years, she probably racked up more air-miles than I could dream of; never had to worry too much about finding the rent, bought a car etc..CONFUSINGLY - at the same time, he was rejecting any grounds for spousal support because 1) I am of working age and best of all, 2) now that I've weathered the storm and managed to build an even better life, I have illustrated  that I am quite capable of paying my own bills!?
Yep..my children went through the same, 'it's Dad's cash and THEY should decide when and if I get help' which created situations where I had to go through them to get cash when I was in dire straits. Priceless.
But, they are just children and have no idea about marriage, parenthood or real responsibility. How could they? They take the path of least resistance - iI does hurt us so badly and it does feel disloyal...But it is not about us - Maybe they are experiencing the same backward, short-term thinking of the MLC.
 I think too, just like the MLC,, they're too busy running to think long-term, it hurts their spaghetti heads when they have those moments of clarity and understand see that their choices affect you as much as it does them. And in those moments of clarity - they are mortified.
In the beginning, my children were 100% behind me, they wouldn't even speak to their father..There have been so many stages - and at one point, my children would not come to me for anything, kept secrets, became dismissive and so on. I felt so lost and sick that this MLC had stolen my role as the kind of mother I had always been and still longed to be. It felt like the worst kind of punishment.
About 6 years into this journey and I've just survived my first Christmas ever WITHOUT my children. It really turned out to be the biggest breakthrough for me. I did a lot of soul-searching (and gardening) and realised that I am pretty happy. They were with their father - and recognised that there had been a massive shift - He had never been ALONE with the children at Christmas either and the strangeness was noted by all - probably never to be repeated.  I think they realised too late that they had hurt themselves and it must've scared them all a bit. I started getting messages from him about wanting to communicate better etc...So I recently signed divorce papers - and got crickets! LOL! I swallowed the terms and it didn't hurt one bit. I've been a single mother of sorts for quite a few years now, that painful relegation, that reduced role I see now, was an opportunity..I have so much more room in my head - Look at me posting on HS!! I'm building broken relationships with my children so they feel at ease in my life. They don't want to feel your pain Nas. That's what it's really about. I feel sure of that.

[hope]

Milly - it's really hard isn't it..like not mentioning the elephant in the room. I still fall into the trap, but I am getting better at seeing it for what it is. It is painful for them too and I do know that they do the exact same thing to my STBX too. I do think shutting them down by saying that you don't want to discuss it implies that you might have feelings - God forbid! So maybe just try your hardest not to engage beyond "oh really" or "that's nice".
Truth is, it's incredibly insensitive and in all other areas, my children are two of those most compassionate empathetic characters you'll ever meet...except when it comes to me for some reason.