[WHY]

I'm starting to expand the way I understand MLC so that it's easier for friends and family to make sense of what's going on.  Taking what we know, and reframing it in a simplified matter.  I think it can be useful for newbies too.

I think a lot of the principles on Heroes Spouse could benefit from being reframed so its easier for people to wrap the heads around it. 

Historical Revisionism - we all know they do this.  But why?

I've come to understand that they genuinely feel that way they feel about LBS once they're in MLC.  They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves.  They 100% in their hearts know that we are the antichrist.

Problem is, these feelings also get applied retroactively to the 20 years of marriage...  And they are certain they've always felt this way and LBS has always been this way.

As for why this happens.  Im not sure.  But I guess those feeling are so intense and real and overwhelming that they dont believe it was any other way or the LBS was any different in the past. 

If there are any recovered MLCers or vets that can comment on fog stories from the other side, on whether this is an accurate depiction, please weigh in.   

[Imgood]

Why - I personally don’t think you can paint all mlcer’s with a wide brush stroke. I am over three years in and my exH still does nice things for me without me asking. I can still feel his care for me when he is physically in my presence which doesn’t happen too often. A couple of examples, I was sick in June with Covid, basically a cold and he offered to go to the store for me and get me some groceries and also picked up CFA for me, as soon as he became aware I was sick. Then in July, he was moving the last pieces of furniture out and he got rid of a bunch of outdoor furniture for me that I didn’t want anymore and lots of flower pots, and just a lot of stuff in the garage that I didn’t want. He had a friend with him and it was a full day of hard, hard work on a very hot day. And he was taking it to the dump and paying for it.  I thanked him via email and he responded saying: “I’m glad we were able to leave it nice for you.” I was surprised by his words.

Also, we have an employee that we “share”. That employee has said on more than one occasion “exH speaks really highly of you”. And just the other day, my daughter said, dad said you were an amazing mom and that you still are. 

Going back to the day he was moving his furniture out and getting his things out of the garage this past July, when he was standing in my family room, I was talking about moving my big armoire to the front room and I said when I’m ready to do that could you help me and I’ll never forget how he responded because I immediately thought about RCR’s reference to “prisoner”. He shook his head “yes”. It was like he either couldn’t or more so, didn’t dare say “yes” out aloud. Oh and the other thing, while getting his stuff from the garage and getting rid of anything I didn’t want, he offered on his own accord while in the backyard to come help me spray paint my table and chair set that needs a refresher AND also somehow it came up that I haven’t been showering in my master bath for over 2 years due to a leak and he said, he could come look at that. I was shocked by his offers of help but didn’t let it show. I have not followed up on either offer and he hasn’t brought it up to me in these last few months since July, so go figure, right! The point is though, not all mlcer’s despise their spouse or ex spouse. As they say, sample of one.

[KayDee]

The point is though, not all mlcer’s despise their spouse or ex spouse. As they say, sample of one.

Same for me. Does thoughtless, harmful things for his own happiness, but still looks at me with affection, wants to talk to me, wants hugs and like Imgood's exH, offers do things. As to the latter, I think it would be too simple to read guilt as the only motive, although definitely a player. Has never really been hateful towards me though.

[UrsaMajor]

I'm in the same boat so a sample of 3 - my MLCxW would ask me to do things for her until I set a boundary that I had been fired form the job as H and she would need to find someone else to do the jobs in her new apartment that I had done around the house. She didn't like it but accepted it after a brief monster.

Other than that, she doesn't actively try to hinder my access to the kids but also doesn't actively assist either (like telling them that, yes, it IS a dad weekend and they need to come so she can have some down time too) but that is because she can use it to prove what a great mom she is, despite letting D12 stay home "sick" from school 2 days every couple of weeks or so (MLCxW does the same from work so ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree....)

Other than that, she is friendly and polite

[Evermore]

My xH is also friendly and treats we fine. We still have family health insurance (5 years in) and I always get a brief hug. I don’t think it’s possible to generalise ‘what they’re like’.

[xyzcf]

They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves.  They 100% in their hearts know that we are the antichrist.

I don't believe this to be true.

As has been stated many many many times, this is not about us and not about our marriage.

I have read that MLCers often feel that they must leave or they will die. They do not just leave us, they leave their whole life behind and change their values and morals.

Like others have written, my husband seeks me out. He travels extensively and brings me back gifts from his travels. He stays at my house when our daughter visits. We go away on vacation with our daughter and son in law. He always wishes me a Happy Birthday and remembers to send me messages on the anniversary of my parent's deaths. His cards to me are signed "Love and xo"...he still confides in me confidential stuff regarding his work, his health. I have been with him for two surgeries in the past year.

No one would know when they see us together that we are not a "couple".

He is not mean to me, doesn't say nasty things about me.

The adjective I use for him is "playboy" for what I know of his life, that is how he lives.

He had a crisis...of that I am sure. I am collateral damage. Our daughter is collateral damage. In some cases, the family pet is collateral damage.

However you define "crisis", massive depression, a life stage, a switch that turns them into someone we don't recognize it is very real and we are not the cause..they may take things out on us and for sure there are some very nasty MLCers, but many are not...I think, my husband just wanted to be left alone...free of any responsibilities and commitments.

I was thinking the other day, about the possibility of the role of hormones...when I was pregnant, there were certain foods and smells that I could not stand...which once my hormones returned to normal after the pregnancy, I once again enjoyed these foods....sometimes, something happens physiologically, due to aging, stress, biochemical changes. Recently, there has been more information about how menopause affects the workplace...it's not something that a women purposely enters into and each person is different but it is very real.

When I look at "crisis" in those ways, I avoid thinking that he despises me..because he doesn't.  Never has.

[FrenchHusband]

At this time W is not answering me when I say "hello" or "good night". But sometimes I see her half-answering, and I see it is difficult for her to keep this posture. And I have been through already : after BD I got this treatment for a while, then there was a change. Same goes for her answering when I say "how do you do ?". After BD I got nothing, then it came back after 2 -3 months. After car incident that was a trigger to crisis coming back, it disappeared again, but now she answers shortly. Actually, I think it is self hurting to be impolite towards someone who is close, who is living in same house and coparenting the children.

I have read in this forum that I should mirror her way of answering. But I do not want to change who I am and mirror her impoliteness. So I stay myself and do my best to ignore the rudeness. Understanding the MLC & detachment help me to not react. 

From my point of view, when our spouses in MLC are mean, ignoring or in monster mode, this shows us how much they are in pain from one side, and they are maybe trying to achieve something on another side. What they may want to get from the nastiness, imo, is that we react, throw them away and give them "justifications" to them leaving. They want not to be responsible of anything, not responsible of separation and divorce. But I am not sure about it, maybe there is no conscious WHY ?

I was thinking the other day, about the possibility of the role of hormones...when I was pregnant, there were certain foods and smells that I could not stand...which once my hormones returned to normal after the pregnancy, I once again enjoyed these foods....sometimes, something happens physiologically, due to aging, stress, biochemical changes. Recently, there has been more information about how menopause affects the workplace...it's not something that a women purposely enters into and each person is different but it is very real.

I think you got a point. Hormones and neuronal changes may have a big part in this crisis. During teenage crisis of my daughters, even it is mild I see that they reject what they appreciated before. And they are sometimes depressed or easily addicted. During my own mild crisis I had these patterns. 

[AlvinTheMaker]

I've come to understand that they genuinely feel that way they feel about LBS once they're in MLC.  They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves. .... As for why this happens.  Im not sure.  But I guess those feeling are so intense and real and overwhelming that they dont believe it was any other way or the LBS was any different in the past. 

I agree with a lot what you wrote. I have no doubts that the MLCr would not genuine feel what they feel.

There are actually some studies on false memories, and they all concur that human mind  is master at creating false memories which feel real. As for reasons, it can be internal defence mechanism (id, ego, superego), it can be hormones, it can be trauma, it can be some health condition etc. Possibly what matters most is that it is not unusual, pretty much everyone has false memories on some level. I think what separates MLC is not the scale of false memories, but effects/outcome they have on relationship.

Psychology has long known that thoughts and feelings go hand-in--hand. If you think negative thoughts or memories, you will get negative feelings. If you feel negativity, you tend to focus on negative thoughts and memories. It is a pit you can drown unless you know how to stop it and have the energy to climb out. And MLCrs lack the skill and energy for some reason.

Just my thoughts at 4½ year mark.

Alvin

[MadLuv]

From my point of view, when our spouses in MLC are mean, ignoring or in monster mode, this shows us how much they are in pain from one side, and they are maybe trying to achieve something on another side. What they may want to get from the nastiness, imo, is that we react, throw them away and give them "justifications" to them leaving. They want not to be responsible of anything, not responsible of separation and divorce.

This for my point of view is so accurate. I think also how much damage they have done. Indiscretions they had, the OW/OM in the picture. My XH has always called if I asked, but once OW moved In he would not reply to texts until he was at work ( understandably to a degree) but when our son was in a car accident and totaled his car it took XH an hour to get away to call and by the time he did he was crying uncontrollably . No one should feel they cant call on their own child or there will be issues. He also with holds communications to control. He has stated, I know if I hold on long enough you will call.  His form of monster is withholding communication/silent treatment.

Yet, if we have a phone call he will Not ever hang up. He will stay on the line for 4 hours. Of course we are in a non communication state now, but I do think that depending on their FMO issues , personal insecurities and struggles, what they did to cope with their issues in an unhealthy manner and the person or people they befriend all play a roll in how they treat us. In my last conversation with my XH he stated, I’m doing what I think I have to do. Careful wording. Not what he wants but what he thinks…..

[marvin4242]

I have read in this forum that I should mirror her way of answering. But I do not want to change who I am and mirror her impoliteness. So I stay myself and do my best to ignore the rudeness. Understanding the MLC & detachment help me to not react.

Just for clarity I have never seen anyone on these forums say to be impolite or rude to your spouse. All the definitions of mirroring I have seen, and it’s exactly what I believed, and did is to mirror their degree of distance. If they are trying to be communicative, then respond with same manner of communication. If they disappear, leave them alone and let them be, if they are cold and businesslike, do the same.

That is what we mean by mirroring the behavior, not screaming and yelling.