Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Treasur on December 05, 2019, 01:11:53 AM
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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/stand_how-do-you-stand.html
A couple of recent thread discussions have caused me to muse on this. If there are factors that make it easier to Stand - if you choose to do so - while also taking good care of yourself and your family?
I'll say upfront that I am no longer a Stander and I have no opinion on whether anyone else is/does. But I do care about how much damage an LBS takes at the service of what they understand Standing to require. And how complicated it is to balance the line between Standing and Acceptance. In a funny way temperamentally I am inclined to Standing and my faith beliefs support it. And yet I reached a point where - and I speak only for me - the emotions and thoughts entangled with how I framed Standing were causing me too much damage. So it became psychologically unsustainable for me. I had to change some of my beliefs - in my case I decided that love also meant letting go as my then h had asked, that I was in some way disrespecting his free will if I didn't and that tbh the hope of his restoration to someone recognisable to me was a wound that needed to scar over. And I probably stopped believing that my 'real' h still existed behind some kind of 'fog' although I could be wrong of course, it just worked better for me if I thought of my h as dead. And of course his pretty speedy remarriage is an unchangeable practical reality that he is now someone else's h. I have no contact with my remarried xh, seek none and have no expectation of that changing. Yet strangely I probably live like a Stander...I am not dating and I would not marry again. Messy right?
So I am not looking for insight or advice for myself. In my situation, the Standing ship has sailed lol.
But I do find myself wondering if there are some very practical factors which may be in the hands of how an LBS builds their post-BD life that make it more sustainable to Stand? For instance, is it easier to Stand if you can get to a point of financial independence quicker? Or if you move more quickly to limited contact to reduce the opportunities for reactive conflict? Or if you GAL like a GAL fiend so you find other things to fill the emotional void? Idk the answers but I wondered if it was worth inviting the Standers to share their thoughts? Perhaps to rebalance what some feel is an attitude shift in the forum. Perhaps for Standers who are past the horrors of the first couple of years to share their perspective for newer LBS trying to figure out what Standing might look like for them.
So, dear Stander friends, what made Standing more sustainable to do over the long term? Or less sustainable?
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Treasur,
I can only speak for the short term.....so far. There is nothing easy about this. Though I truly doubt divorce and healing from that properly would be much easier.
For me the initial thought is that so much of my own internal junk and wrong ways of thinking have been triggered and it all needs healing.....why add extra paperwork on top of that right now. I can process and work through my crap, while H flails away in the shallow end of the pool and waits for AP to ride in on a white horse and save him.
Once I’m somewhere closer to healed or healing I’ll be better able to tackle the idea of wether or not I want in or out, or if it ought to be saved (the marriage) in the first place. But for now I have a bit of work to do....and it’s currently more financially feasible to do it together than apart at the moment.
I do really find comfort in standing being a day by day decision...
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For me, a large part of it was my faith, both religious and my faith in who my husband was. I think by praying for him and working to forgive, I was able to keep from hating him for the pain he caused. As for faith in who he was, the MLC him was so incredibly different from the "normal" him, the one I COULD trust and had a heart of gold. Thankfully, I see that man again.
I have always had a lot of contact with my MLCer so was able to get a firsthand view. I could see when he was just out of control and when he was going through a depressive phase. Maybe that helped me maintain my belief that he was in MLC and not just someone who walked away. And maybe that contact made it easier to stand than it would have been for a vanisher. I don't know.
But it truly became easier the more detached I got. I was able to focus on me and the kids and my career rather than worrying about what he was doing or not doing. That enabled me to kind of just put him on a shelf and leave him there for the time being.
All that being said, I have always felt that I would stand until it didn't seem right anymore. That hasn't yet changed, so here I am.
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Good topic Treasur. I hope it helps you find the answers you're looking for. And I hope it helps you to decide to continue helping others by posting your thoughts here on the forum.
I probably qualify now as a long term stander. It's been 5.5 years since BD and I'm still standing.
The first thing I want to say is that I have no opinion on whether anyone else should stand or not stand. That's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves. And I wouldn't fault anyone for choosing not to stand. As it states in the article that Treasur linked to, MLC takes an incredibly long time and it has no guaranteed outcome. Knowing that, you would have to have a pretty good reason or reasons for standing. Or you would have to be in denial.
In order to stand for this long I had to decide why I was standing. The truth is that I'm an incredibly selfish person. I'm not standing for my wife or my marriage or my family. I'm standing for me. I'm standing because I need to know that I did everything possible to restore my marriage and my family. I like what Courage and Trusting wrote about standing being a day to day decision that continues until it doesn't seem right any more. It's possible that I might decide tomorrow that I've done everything I can do and it's time to stop standing. I doubt it but it could happen.
There are some things that have made it easier to stand for so long.
If I were younger and more attractive to the opposite sex or wealthier and more attractive to the opposite sex it might be more difficult to stand for so long.
If, when BD struck, I didn't have 36 years invested in our relationship, our life together, and our family then it might be more difficult to stand for so long.
If I didn't believe so strongly that my wife violating the oath should spoke doesn't justify me violating the oath that I spoke, then it might be more difficult to stand for so long.
If my wife hadn't stood by me and supported me for 6 years during the late 80s and early 90s when I had unrecognized PTSD, was emotionally distant, was having panic attacks and nightmares, and was depressed and was even briefly hospitalized for depression, then it might be more difficult to stand for so long.
The last three are the most critical IMO.
If I didn't completely believe that my wife is going through a crisis that she didn't ask for, didn't cause, doesn't understand, and has no control over; a crisis that has temporarily changed her into someone who is nothing like the woman I was married to; a crisis that has resulted in her doing things the woman I was married to would never have done, then I'm sure it would be more difficult to stand for so long.
If I hadn't experienced for myself what my wife is currently going through, then I'm sure it would be more difficult to stand for so long.
If I could figure out how to stop loving her, then I'm sure it would be more difficult to stand for so long.
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I am currently standing, my red line is the divorce. I have to say when she initially filed I was somewhat relieved that this was coming to close. I was also sad and heartbroken all at the same time. My wifes OM lives 1500 miles away, that certainly helped me. I have thought about what would happen if I saw her out with someone else. Would I fight would I turn and walkaway ? I really don't know.
We just had our first conversation in over a year about a month ago. It's been more contact since then. She has started coming to the door to pick up the kids instead of texting she's here. This part has really sent me Monkey Braining alot lately.
Yesterday she said she is cutting a trip short by a few days with the kids. She asked if I would like the kids on New years Eve and day. I started to let my emtoions get the best of me for a few minutes. As my thinkng was who will she be with. Where is the party she wants to go to etc etc. I just replied nicely that I can take them. This is big for me as I am trying to move forward. I am still angry and resentful of all that has happened. I am trying harder everyday to grow stronger.
I am a GAL junky, I have started to play tennis and do yoga. I surf and spend the rest of my time with the kids. I have made new friends and haven't focused on my wife to much. Though I would say that it was probably more of a way to block it out and knot deal with it. That is probably why I am havinbg a hard time at the moment. That and it's the holidays and our anneverssary is next week.
I stand for me now as I can see that I have so much inner work to do on myself that I am no good to anyone else at the moment. That could change anyday but right now I am a stander. All my friends think I am insane, I meet girls that want to ask me out all the time. I just say I am still married and am not dating at the moment.
I do feel like half a man at times, as I am waiting on a woman that doesn't want me, that has cheated on me and hasn't ever appologized or explained herself. This crisis SUCKS !
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Met 2006
Married 2009
BD 2015
Civilly divorced 2016
Today: Standing.
Reasoning: I believe standing is the right thing to do for me, for God, and for the spiritual facet of our little family. He’s gone (vanisher) and I accept that. I speculate his leaving is what was right for him.
I also forgive him ~ and that too, like standing, is a daily task.
I don’t expect a return and I really don’t need one to continue loving him and standing for my marriage. I have a great life and I no longer lament being abandoned by him. I live my life fully today without waiting for anything or expecting an outcome.
I’ve surrendered (waving white flag).
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I am currently standing, my red line is the divorce. I have to say when she initially filed I was somewhat relieved that this was coming to close. I was also sad and heartbroken all at the same time. My wifes OM lives 1500 miles away, that certainly helped me. I have thought about what would happen if I saw her out with someone else. Would I fight would I turn and walkaway ? I really don't know.
We just had our first conversation in over a year about a month ago. It's been more contact since then. She has started coming to the door to pick up the kids instead of texting she's here. This part has really sent me Monkey Braining alot lately.
Yesterday she said she is cutting a trip short by a few days with the kids. She asked if I would like the kids on New years Eve and day. I started to let my emtoions get the best of me for a few minutes. As my thinkng was who will she be with. Where is the party she wants to go to etc etc. I just replied nicely that I can take them. This is big for me as I am trying to move forward. I am still angry and resentful of all that has happened. I am trying harder everyday to grow stronger.
I am a GAL junky, I have started to play tennis and do yoga. I surf and spend the rest of my time with the kids. I have made new friends and haven't focused on my wife to much. Though I would say that it was probably more of a way to block it out and knot deal with it. That is probably why I am havinbg a hard time at the moment. That and it's the holidays and our anneverssary is next week.
I stand for me now as I can see that I have so much inner work to do on myself that I am no good to anyone else at the moment. That could change anyday but right now I am a stander. All my friends think I am insane, I meet girls that want to ask me out all the time. I just say I am still married and am not dating at the moment.
I do feel like half a man at times, as I am waiting on a woman that doesn't want me, that has cheated on me and hasn't ever appologized or explained herself. This crisis SUCKS !
Father, I am right there with you. Every bit of it. Although, I'm not getting asked out by women. LOL I AM wearing my wedding ring though, and I'm not going anywhere except church without my D9, so that's my excuse! hang in there, my man. You're doing well.
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Wow. Great question Treasur, you’re making me thinky.
Lots of people have already replied very thoughtfully. I’m excited to read along.
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I would have stood forever - I still believe that we were an exceptional couple and this is all wrong. However, the divorce is final. He has showed zero interest in me, and I haven't even seen him in two years. So my standing has changed to anger and self survival. That said, each LBS must figure out what feels right and follow their heart.
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Treasur your question got me thinking,
I’m a stander because I have work to do on myself. I am currently going through a very emotional time with my step fathers terminal lung cancer and it really does put into perspective the whole MLC process.
I know I am not anywhere near fixed but I am willing to do the work required even though it’s painful to look deep inside at the stuff I have avoided for years.
This stand is more about me than my h. I know I cannot do a single thing for him but I can do everything for me.
I stand also because of my marriage to a wonderful man and the vows I took. He may have discarded me and those vows, I have not. It’s standing but never standing still. I am gaining strength and peace and understanding and healing. My relationship with God is something I cherish and I have many things to be grateful for. I truly trust in the process and I use this time for me. I know it sounds selfish but it’s not. I am learning to both accept and let go. I have trust in God and know this is right for me.
God bless you all
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Treasur,
As a dinosaur stander ;) It will be nine years in a few days. I think my stand is sustainable for several reasons:
a) I love him ;) ;
b) my faith sustains me and my knowledge of the Word of God points me this way, I sincerely believe that if God wants me to do something different, He will find a way of letting me know;
c) I was with one man for 31 years before he informed me that he didn't want to be married to me anymore, it is difficult for me to even imagine life with someone else;
d) I had a very good marriage;
e) God has blessed me in that I can support myself financially even if I am not as comfortable as I was when married - I don't need him in that way :) ;
f) I have protected myself as well as possible by looking away and not biting bait.
That said - I miss him very, very much. I have been through severe losses in these last years and I really miss him by my side. The loss of our son has made him distance even more and I think I understand that. Grief and mourning is something we deal with in a very individual way, however, perhaps this grief for our son should be shared to some extent, there are memories that are so pertinent to both of us...
So, my stand continues... He is my only beloved :)
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Mitzpah,
Thank you for expressing what standing means so very very well. My heart breaks for you. :'(
I have looked at this topic several times and tried to write a response but I have trouble with the word "sustainable" or "less sustainable" because for me it is not either or.
I have no lines in the sand....I have no "if he does this" I will stop standing.
I knew from the very beginning what I would do. I have never waivered.
He is my husband. I am his wife. No earthly situation will ever change that.
I have always felt that he changed his feelings towards me...that doesn't mean that I must change my feelings or my core values and beliefs about the permanency of marriage.
MLC, a chronic or debilitating illness, a jail sentence, an accident that would leave him in a vegetative state, MIA during a war...nothing changes the promises I made before God 42 years ago.
I love him. I follow what God has told me to do.
There are not things that help me to stand or not stand..it is what I know I am going to do.
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Ok, so I am about to reveal something very personal that may make people think I am a kook, but here goes...
Before My H’s MLC I had not heard about the concept of standing. I have deep faith and am a practicing Catholic, but my personal relationship with God falls more into this funky hybrid of Catholic-Buddhist-Irish Mystic, and before you can say WTF, let me tell you, it’s a thing, and a pretty legit way to practice a close interaction with God.
Shortly after BD but before I knew about OW, I was coping primarily through prayer and meditation. In meditation I started getting little clues, visions or thoughts - during prayer I would invite in the saints and angels as intercessors (its a Catholic thing) which is sort of like a divine prayer chain - you know, when people say “I’m praying for you” same thing... in one of my prayer sessions I heard a voice say “invite Gregory” - and I thought what? Who’s Gregory?? I paid no attention, and kept meditating.. over a couple days, maybe a week or more, I kept hearing “invite Gregory” so I looked up online the Catholic dictionary of Saints thinking Gregory must be related to a Saint, after some research, there are a number of Saints named Gregory - when I read about Pope Saint Gregory the 3rd I about fell out of my seat - this particular pope “of the people”. He was in a huge battle with then Roman Emperor Leo , in the historical account Pope Gregory came to be known for his “stand” - he is known to have said you need to know when to take a stand and fight (directly against the Empirer) and when to stand back and let God do His work.
By this time I had found Hero Spouse and had read some articles and knew about the concept of standing.
My H has done “all the things”, he served me with D papers a week after affair was revealed, he has and is continuing to try and control and intimidate me with more legal action, he neglects his kids, he’s frequently in monster, his replay appears to be on the more extreme side of many of the stories I read. I’m legally divorced, he’s still with OW, he has little to no interest in the boys but he is suing me for parental alienation (it’s crazy), he lies, he gaslights me and worse the kids. I think for many, my H is a bridge “too far.” But for me, I feel like I was called to stand. I am getting WAY better at detachment thanks to many here on the forum. I still bite bait. I’m still very wobbly. My GAL game? Lacking. Through all that I have never received one message, in prayer, meditation, in the quiet of the night, in my gut or the shallows of the day that I should give up my stand. At my very lowest moments, I have even prayed to be released, but never have I ever felt like I should stop standing. If that day comes, I too think I will be “released.” That doesn’t mean I will reconcile. It doesn’t mean my H will come back, it doesn’t even mean that he SHOULD come back. I just think I will know what to do when it’s time to do it.
Right now spirit is pretty quiet, I am thinking that it is because all my healing, focus, and GAL work should be on and about me... what H does, well at the moment, it’s really none of my business. Does that effect my stand? No.
And no one, not one person in RL knows I am standing. I think most people would think I am crazy based on H’s behavior. Friends want me to date and I just say no, I am not healed, broken attracts broken and I wouldn’t want to expose anyone to a person who can’t bring their full self to the table.
My stand continues. I’ve surrendered my H to himself and to God, he gets to chose his path, and I have to be true to mine, regardless of how exhausting, frustrating and sad this path may seem. I’m “early days” 2.5 years, it’ll be fun to revisit this topic a year from now.
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I'll chime in - stander or not?
Like Mitzpah, and so many others who have posted - my faith believes that we give one vow to God, to our partner and to the public that we will love and cherish the person we are marrying for our entire life.
For that, I stand.
For the love of my husband, who I've cherished and known so many good times with, I stand.
But... Like 3Boys said - there is a time to stand, and a time to stand aside and let God.
So, as I've said before - I would LOVE to have my husband back (healed and whole), BUT, I've given it to God, and am allowing Him to dictate my stand.
I have no rush or desire to go out and get a new husband, but if God give me someone that he wants me to date and become intimate with; I am open to that.
I always thought I'd be married to my H forever, so the above is even hard to acknowledge, and I think that if my H hadn't divorced me, it would be easier to remain standing. I don't wear my wedding ring anymore (he's been living with ow for over a year, and we've been divorced for 6 months). I DO still call him my H though, and promptly get corrected by friends.
I guess he will always be...
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Hmmm Seahorse, I’ve been Divorced for a year and he’s been living with OW for six months - and I still refer to him as my husband, but only to my self - otherwise I really try not to talk about him too much st this point, just a few close friends/family
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So, it seems as if Standing is influenced most by three things overall? Your own sense of where you are in terms of mirror work to be done before making a different choice, a deep belief that your real spouse still 'exists' behind their current persona and your own personal faith whatever that happens to be? Have I got that right?
Are there other practical factors like money or the circumstances of how you live that make it easier?
Just wondering in case it helps LBS as they plan their Standing life?
Looking back, I think the core reason I stopped standing was bc I stopped believing that my 'real' h existed behind the face of what he had become even before the divorce. Which perhaps comes with a Vanisher bc I saw no glimmer of him; my only contact was with the new version. I did for the first 18 months or so occasionally. So, I think I never lost faith in God but I lost faith in the existence of my h as a person if that makes sense.
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Hi, Treasur,
I don't really post on HS anymore, as I really am I think the oldest of the old-timers here now (Anjae had been in this longer...); I thought I would try to get my thoughts down on this, however. I hope they are coherent, my ability to write eloquently hasn't been that great of late!
I didn't know about the concept of Standing when this mess started, but looking back I think I was a Stander without knowing what it was called. I recognised that something was very, very amiss, and I saw my then H enough to see that what I believed to be the "real" H was still in there. He was a mess. I think my instincts (or faith) told me to Stand without saying exactly what that was.
As an aside, I'm not sure where that "real" H has gone after so many years, I do believe it is possible for him to reappear, but he would have to show a huge strength of character that I can't say if it is there or not.
I also realised that I had a lot of work to do on me, and started doing that, which took up a huge amount of energy. Not that the mirror-work ever ends, but there was so much more to deal with in the earlier years.
I also had to work through a lot of fear -- I think I was a bigger mess than any I have seen on this forum, so I had to wade through that one as well.
Fast-foward to now, when I haven't seen my H for several years and don't like at all what glimpses are shown to me through others; I am probably doing what you are -- living like a Stander, without necessarily preaching that I am Standing. I have no desire to date, but it is probably also because I am so busy with life, keeping my business afloat, being there for my kids, that it's not something I actively think about. And in all honesty, I'm not sure I want to deal with the complications of another relationship at this stage in life.
I can't say how I would feel if I were much younger, or if I didn't have children, or if other factors were different, I can only work with what I have.
I do miss my H, very much. But keeping away from who he has become right now is best for my own health, I continue to pray that he will find his path, but I recognise that I don't get to make those choices for him.
I think you are right about the factors that influence Standing; I'd add to that the effect on children, whatever age they are. There are certainly those who say that one shouldn't let one's children influence one's choices, but I do think it plays a role.
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Treasur, it absolutely makes sense. Yes, indeed.
As for practical matters, from my limited experience there is nothing practical about MLC, So applying a practical filter over the situation is more of a distraction. What I am learning is that my H is not coming back on my timeline if at all. My H currently treats me as if I am his enemy, though in recent past I still saw tiny shades of him. I saw the “core” Man very often for the first 18 months, but far less this past year, though once in awhile May - Aug. but in none of the times I glimpsed an aspect of the old H, were practical matters ever at issue. I M learning to believe that all practical matters must be dealt with 100% as you are a single person. Finances, job choices, where you live, how you spend your time, all must be dealt with from your perspective only. I spent so much time spinning my wheels wondering if I did A, would that increase the odds of B (reconciliation) happening - none of us know or can know the answer to that. A dear friend said, you must be your most authentic self. Practical matters should be handled in the way that works best for you, the spouse shouldn’t come into it. They aren’t thinking about us, many are living with other people, whether that crashes and burns time will tell.
For me standing has become deeply spiritual than practical, maybe my stand is designed to draw out the most authentic version of me. If so, I am excited to meet her.
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Oooh the old standing debate.
At the very very beginning. I always told myself that I was standing because I had a knowing Clington would return. So I stood. And I stood and I stood. Now, I’m not sure it’s called standing. I’m more in the iffer club.
I was never married to Clington. Although we lived together and had children, but the non marriage made it very easy to separate things. Within a few months, I was financially independent and able to rebuild myself. I wasn’t sat waiting around for a divorce. I was able to say “tight were done. Let’s rebuild sacha” Ofcourse that didn’t happen right away. It took a while for me to pull myself out the hole.
I think, me being open to a reconciliation depends on a few factors. Clington lives with Ow now. Which is okay for me. But will they marry? Will she become pregnant? These are factors that would come into my decision. Will I meet someone? Will I want them to be a more permanent thing as opposed to a casual thing!? I'd say I’m open to dating but it depends on the person placed in front of me. But I wouldn’t take Clingtons thoughts or feelings into consideration. If someone asked me out, and I wanted to go. I’d go. Will Clington start monster? Will he become cruel? Will he abandon the children? There are many factors I think for my “stand” anyway.
I think as MLCers go so far (touch wood) I feel it’s been fairly easy for me to deal with. I’m not sure their was an affair. I think I forced BD earlier than it would have come, so there was no Ow whilst he was with me. That makes it easier for me. Clington has never monstered, nor been cruel. That also helps. He sees the kids regularly and pays his fair share of child maintenance etc. I think, if come then say Clington knocks on my door wanting reconciliation things are similar to how they are now. I would be open to it.
I think we would all like a family to stay together, Mum dad and kids all together under one roof. However, I also feel like in not standing for Clingtons BS and showing my kids we can go on without him. I’ve led by example that, even if reconciliation happens...you can do it alonw and don’t need anyone else. I don’t need Clington anymore. And that’s very freeing because if we do reconcile. It’s because we wanted too. Not needed too.