Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: amazinglove on May 23, 2025, 03:12:27 PM

Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on May 23, 2025, 03:12:27 PM
Link to last thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12208.0

I am never more grateful for this group than when something happens that makes me want to scream into the universe when I get an unfortunate look into my MLC XH's mindset.

Today he v helpfully FORWARDED me (with no commentary) an article from the NYT ydy that one of his clients sent him in Ask the Therapist /Lori Gottlieb https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/22/well/mind/ask-therapist-affair-kids.html  - where she advises a wife NOT to tell the kids their dad had an affair - which is the reason they divorced. And that her perspective of his affair is only 'her' truth and telling your kids may come from a desire to get revenge on him so keep it to yourself. And in fact his perspective may be that it was just his natural reaction to a marriage that was already dying. So basically, nothing is his fault and if you tell the truth about it, you are a bad person. I am paraphrasing here, because in this case the kids were teens who never asked about the divorce and the woman in question did not want to tell them. However, I am absolutely incensed that a) my XH felt he needed to forward this to me like a bullet (I've already told our daughter and he knows that, who asked constant and unceasing questions btw)  b) he is telling his clients this bull$h!te story that our marriage was dead therefore he did what came naturally and c) any and all marriage breakdowns have two sides to them that are equally valid and both are right.

As someone who was blindsided by a spouse of 13 years that began resenting me, withdrawing, having an illicit affair and then blindsiding me with an entirely new persona, set of values, wardrobe, nose (in this case) and running 12,000 miles away, with no interest in really parenting or supporting his children - I am really, really angry that this kind of thinking is being encouraged for him.

I feel like he's been spinning since the day he decided he would not end his affair and he would embrace his new, entirely selfish life across the world. He started by telling anyone who would listen that our sex life was awful, I was frigid, hated sex, turning him down all the time (all lies), and now it's that our marriage was already dead, he had no choice, and the kids should know it was a 50/50 breakdown of our marriage with no details or blame ascribed to anyone. My children are 8 and 11. They are completely damaged by the abandonment of their dad, who ran off with a RICH Russian granny (ex gf) and sold us all out for private jets and designer underwear.

As i parent alone, picking up the pieces daily of their rightful sense of loss and rejection, in addition to my own, I also have to contend with this kind of passive/aggressive tactics from him trying to solidify his narrative and gaslight me. When I responded to his email in an admitted 6am tirade about what the truth actually was 'This article has nothing to do with our story. You were depressed, you broke from unhealed trauma, and you ran away. You never tried to work on anything ! You denied there were any problems and yelled at me when I tried to talk about feeling lonely, or not as connected and asked you if you were considering an affair because of how cold you were to me - and you were already having one!  Our marriage was not dying, we were still saying I love you and meaning it - but you resented me for not being able to make America as great for you as it was for me and the kids and so you pulled away and punished me.  You abandoned your children, you are selfish beyond measure and a poor excuse for a father. And in the end they will know you chose a rich Russian granny over their mother and ultimately them."

His response was that he didn't really understand my long email and that he didn't want to fight over this article -and that he still loves me and the kids (and no one can change that!)  but that yes, he does blame me for the move to America, that I trapped him here and that his soul "was dying every day". He said ' you were happy there, with your master bedroom, and new car and excited about your work, and I was miserable and so things changed between us."  I think that's kind of  exactly what I said too! But the change was that he pouted like a giant, selfish baby and then blew up all of our lives as punishment for us succeeding where he'd failed.

That's what it feels like anyway!

Our divorce is final. He is no longer my problem or my husband. I know I need to not care what he tells people about us, or indeed what he tells himself, but it just feels like addiing insult to injury, to be betrayed AND THEN lied about! Has anyone ever felt this way?

I hope that in future, I can get an email like that from him and just be like, 'whatever' and delete it without caring.

I'm not there yet.
Title: Re: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: forthetrees on May 23, 2025, 06:26:03 PM
I read that nytimes piece and I had a different take away. I thought her advice was to ask the LBS the motivation for why she would tell her kids and depending on the answer then go ahead and share but if it were out of a sense of righteousness then wait for the kids to ask. Him sending you the article was a "poke the bear" move. Maybe it´s his immature reaction to the divorce being final and he wanted to zing you one more time.

Take a deep breath as he is no longer your spouse and the decree has spelled out the financials. Yes, it is likely he will continue to wound your
kiddos´hearts with insensitive behaviors and words and outright neglect but your kids are going to naturally lower their expectations with time to the point that they will not pine for him but perhaps for "a dad" who cares.

I think we still get shocked by how they are willing to stoop yet lower again and again. I´m not sure that shock ever goes away and maybe that´s a good thing as it´s a normal reaction. If it happens again maybe consider no response at all so he does not have the satisfaction of knowing whether or not you even got the email. After all, what they are seeking is a reaction. Maybe create a FU folder for storing the inane emails as a ritual instead of responding.

Hope you can still have a pleasant holiday weekend.
Hugs,
FTT
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on May 23, 2025, 11:57:57 PM
I read the response posted on another site which I occasionally look at https://www.chumplady.com/should-the-kids-know-about-dads-affair/ - you might find it helpful.

My thought about it when I read it? Well of course the departing spouse wants to control the narrative bc a) entitlement and b) if there was no shame about doing a bad thing, there would be no need to not tell the truth, would there?  My second response was broadly rude and unprintable and full of lots of **$***!!

At the same time, I think one comes to accept that divorce inherently implied that you are no longer responsible for, or invested in, THEIR ‘truth’ or vice versa. And sadly that does mean that accepting that you have zero control or influence over what they think or what they say to anyone else. Which is not an easy pill to swallow, is it? (And yes, he definitely sent the link bc he was trying to pressure or influence you….just say no to that but in future you will find it easier not to be pulled into reacting at all)

Not a parent here, but post-PTSD, I find I have a lot more respect for the importance of the factual truth about big things that affect our lives significantly. And that there is a difference between WHAT and WHY. Imho ypur kids deserve to know the basic WHATs….that you loved their dad and thought your marriage was good, that you were shocked and blindsided by his actions, that he left the country, had an affair with MM and did not tell you the truth for a long time, and that most marriages can’t survive one spouse behaving like that, so you had to get divorced so the three of you could go ahead and build a good but different life. No need to dip into  technicoloured detail about what he did/does or your opinion if him as a human, other than saying perhaps that his actions obviously changed how you see him as a person now and how much involvement you want to have with him in future which is normal.

But WHY he did/does what he did/does? You don’t know and if they need/want to know, they will have to ask him and decide for themselves what they think about what he says bc none of us are responsible for being a magic mind reader. Separate the truth of the WHAT from your opinion of the WHY. Trust your kids as intelligent young growing humans to develop their own discernment. Correct factual lies if they are important but otherwise keep reminding yourself that immature disordered deceitful humans normally have an elastic relationship with the truth and plenty of reason to try to avoid telling it….thats just how they roll…and there are things you will never really get about his version of life bc thankfully you are not an immature disordered deceitful person. You are literally hard-wired differently! Again jmo but I suspect the life lessons for LBS kids are not much different than for LBS…a process of seeing unwelcome realities as they are and gradually deciding what they want to do with that and how it changes how they interact with that parent and what they expect of them.

A divorce finalising is a tricky thing to comment on imho…feels like it deserves both a sorry and a congratulations, both at the same time. Mixed emotions for sure given the scale of the life plot twist. The one thing that most of us found is that life carrying a disordered person is inherently exhausting and divorce provides a legitimate rationale for a whole bunch of ‘Not My Circus, Not My Job’ boundaries. Again jmo, but listening to your xh’s opinion about anything from the price of fish to his inner monologue is likely to be one of them…just takes a while to get the hang of it after decades of acting differently.

Just say Pffft to future emails like this and turn your attention to more pleasing things like planning your new home or useful ones like cleaning the toilet!
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Reinventing on May 24, 2025, 01:01:56 AM
Amazinglove,

That was a tough email to receive and not feel incensed. I agree that if the affair was just this natural part things then why hide it from anyone? Why the shame about it? Seems like a catch-22 thought process, but that is par for the course throughout this whole thing. Amazing mental dymnastics.

I also agree with sending the email to a folder and the more incensed you are, the more you wait to respond.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: KayDee on May 24, 2025, 03:10:26 AM

Our divorce is final. He is no longer my problem or my husband. I know I need to not care what he tells people about us, or indeed what he tells himself, but it just feels like addiing insult to injury, to be betrayed AND THEN lied about! Has anyone ever felt this way?


Oh yeah! I bet we all have. When this crops up for me, my inner wise woman says to me 'what else would he say?' I suspect the culprits say it as much for themselves as they do for other people. And while they continue to do so, they are still... well still who they are now, and nowhere near being a person you could have an honest conversation with. I mean, let's face it, we women on the forum have  probably all met the guy who says 'my wife doesn't understand me, la la la' (and versions of) to justify $h!tety behaviour. People see through it. The article share by a client was likely a response to his self-pity (and why is he telling his clients this kind of thing anyway!?!). Big old cracks in his narrative and somewhere in that muddled mind he knows it, so he is trying to justify his own behaviour by citing the NYTs.

Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Reinventing on May 24, 2025, 06:59:04 AM
And the author of the NYT advice in that article so protected herself from a man that she never married and conceived through a sperm donor. Hard not to read into trust issues there.

I have to say that it's hard to take the advice of how to respond to betrayal from someone who made sure they could never be betrayed themselves. She can certainly make those choices and I think they are great for her, don't get me wrong. But to then give such advice about whether an affair is a bit much for me to take.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on May 24, 2025, 07:07:29 AM
Treasur thanks for forwarding me that Chump article. It helped to see that she has form for always excusing cheating men!!
And yes, Reinventing I agree- I loved her book tho, loved it- so was so disappointed to see her call truth and lies or victim and predator - “two versions of reality” I really hate that mentality.
My XH mostly blames me and circumstances for his actions, never himself. It’s hard to constantly refuse to take that on and often he gets to me and I do take it on and feel guilty. All the time! What did I miss? Why did I marry him? Why were  red flags Ignored?  Why subject my kids to him? This kind of thing reinforces his false narrative and my constant feelings of failure!
How have others here managed to not own their MLC spouse’s shame?
Title: Re: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: forthetrees on May 24, 2025, 01:51:55 PM
I think ditching the feeling of shame does come naturally with time and distance. You begin to see the situation more clearly and realize that you did your part but you cannot and could not control another person. You each have to own your own. You did not abandon your family and leave your kids to cry on a regular basis. I think having a mantra to repeat to yourself when the shame monster rears its head would help.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: xyzcf on May 24, 2025, 05:07:39 PM
Quote
My XH mostly blames me and circumstances for his actions, never himself. It’s hard to constantly refuse to take that on and often he gets to me and I do take it on and feel guilty. All the time! What did I miss? Why did I marry him? Why were  red flags Ignored?  Why subject my kids to him? This kind of thing reinforces his false narrative and my constant feelings of failure!

There was a lot in that article about many issues that might have occurred during the marriage. Many couples can work together to identify and understand the conflicts that occur...in normal married life. Our spouses did not want to do that. Or, they felt that they had "tried" and were done. I don't think it is necessary to tell children that their fathers have had an affair. Some things are private and to what advantage does it have? Eventually, it came out in my case and she "knew" anyway...but my daughter is a grown woman..and his cheating wasn't the worst of what he has done (although it causes me to go into a rage).

Two things speak to me...the idea that they were done with the marriage a long time before we had any clue that they were "finished"...we might have had some inkling that something was off...but never to the degree that the marriage was over.

The other, is that the affair is a symptom of their trying to find something to give them a "high"..because they have lost the feeling of excitement and the rush of having an affair is intoxicating. Adultery hurts us deeply but it is only one of the several things that cause trauma when our marriages end this way..suddenly and without warning.

No relationship is perfect...don't rewrite history...questioning what you missed or why did you marry him, have children with him....most likely, there was a great deal of happiness in your marriage and family life. Unless the time you were together was absolutely dreadful...you did not know that he would have a crisis...none of us did. Were there red flags? Only you know if that is true or if looking back, you are examining things that might or might not have been problematic. And what could you have done to change things?

We didn't argue or fight or disagree...I thought this was a positive thing...that we were so in tune with one another and so "adult" that we could calmly come to agreement on everything...he was very very kind and loving to me..what did we have to fight about?

I can see now that we are both conflict avoiders..but it wouldn't have mattered..he was already programmed to have a crisis that changed him in so many ways...another truism that we have spoken about on Heros Spouse..it would not have mattered who he married..he still would have had a crisis..it was not us.

Your "constant feelings of failure"...he is not responsible for you feeling that way...you are questioning everything and that's ok...he was the one who has failed, as a husband, a father and your best friend......I would suggest hashing this out in therapy as to why you feel you failed? Because that could be something relating to your own inner self and might be worth a look.

Usually, I encourage people to try and have some contact with the MLCer....but it might be time for you to eliminate him from your life...doesn't have to be forever...but a time out might help you to heal. I always think it is best for children to have contact with their father or mother...did your divorce set out any visitation arrangements? It really is up to him to arrange to see his children and as you have already seen, they don't make much of an effort.

Unless you can handle contact without it tearing you apart, arranging other ways to communicate with him  concerning the children, perhaps through a parenting app or another person might make things easier for you. You don't owe it to him to keep him informed about them..he left them as well as you and you did not "fail" them..he did.




Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on May 24, 2025, 11:30:01 PM
Quote
My XH mostly blames me and circumstances for his actions, never himself. It’s hard to constantly refuse to take that on and often he gets to me and I do take it on and feel guilty. All the time! What did I miss? Why did I marry him? Why were  red flags Ignored?  Why subject my kids to him? This kind of thing reinforces his false narrative and my constant feelings of failure!
How have others here managed to not own their MLC spouse’s shame?

I see two strands here, if it helps. The blame and responsibility that your xh tries to shift onto you. And your own sense of failure or shame or maybe just regret about all the big and small choices you made that you think might have brought you to this spot, the roads not taken so to speak. Is that fair? If so I would start by separating these two things bc imho they are not the same.

I found it helpful to keep it very simple.
Anything I did not know about? Not my responsibility.
Anything anyone else thought but didn’t say? Not a magic mind reader so not my responsibility.
Actions taken by others in which I was given no voice or vote? Not my responsibility.
Other people prioritising A over B, and then not much liking the pretty predictable consequences of B? Not my responsibility.
Other people betraying my trust or lying to me or stealing from me? Not my responsibility.
Basically anything that I can’t directly control or where my opinion is excluded is not my responsibility.
You’ll find that takes quite a lot off your plate! And tbh it’s a mindset that tends to spill into lots of other bits of life so it has wider uses!

You may find it helpful to begin exposing yourself less, where you can, to anyone else’s version of the above. Not your responsibility. Probably not useful. Doubtless heard it all before so no need to hear it again. Unreliable source too lol. Plus your former h chose to leave you and your kids and your old shared life to create a different one with other people….regardless of his words of ‘love’, that’s probably the only big clear bit of feedback you need. Everything else he might say is imho likely to be a broken self-pity record or justification - and past a certain point it’s not useful bc what he did is what he did and the standard laws of cause and effect tend to roll out whether he, or you, like it or not. That may or may not work out well for him but it was HIS choice and he had others, so his choice and what comes from it is also not your responsibility. Tbh you are probably busy enough tidying up the unchosen effects on your life and your kids’ lives, right? Let him carry the load of his own effects. Again, jmo, but this is a version of how Big Acceptance works in practice, a certain level of letting other peoples’ chips fall as they may.

Oh and as a PS, again jmo, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to require ourselves to feel any responsibility for what happens to their lives after us, or indeed to make them feel better about any of those unfolding effects. They made choices while usually we got no choice at all..,we were then left to deal with a whole bunch of effects without their support so it seems fair to apply the same principle. I’m not saying one has to be a vindictive a$$hat, just keep chipping away at our mental boundaries of what is our business now and what is not, what is appropriate to be involved in and what is not. So, damaged fingers? And the legality of divorce can help with that bc it practically restructures obligations and reasonable expectations even as a parent. No more energy invested than if a cashier in the supermarket told me the same…sorry to hear that, sounds difficult, then hey ho and move on. When in doubt imho, think reciprocal balance….don’t give out what you don’t expect to receive unless there is a darned good overarching reason to do so like damaged fingers means can’t drive over to pick up kids etc etc.

And now the squirmy bits….
Accepting that I DID make a bunch of choices, big and small, that turned out very poorly for me. Being as honest as I can be about what I knew at the time and that I probably did the best I could based on that. Being as honest as I could about why I chose x over y, in so far as memory allows, or why I adapted around someone else’s desire for x over y. What I said yes to and what I said no to. Red flags I did not see (and why I didn’t see them) or red flags I tinted pink (and maybe why). And all under the umbrella that I am neither God nor Dr Who so I can’t know the future or use a time travel machine!

Did that leave me with some things I regretted, some things I felt cross with my younger self about, a few things I felt bad or foolish about? It did. But it also helped me accept that perfection isn’t in a marriage contract, that my mistakes (such as they were) were usually reasonable and understandable based on what I knew at the time, that my intent was almost always good and generous and fair. That I treated my xh as I would wish to be treated. But that I also was far from my best self for quite a while around and post BD and that I did not always look after myself well or deal with the ensuing cataclysm well. And that life is a lot less controllable than we think. And that some of that just sucks. And some of that requires a bit of kindness towards myself as a well meaning but standard imperfect human!

Divorce naturally separates you from some things but tbh I found that some other aspects of separation, maybe the emotional or mental ones, don’t completely happen automatically bc of legal paperwork. It takes a little time to go from being a We through a Me Minus You to a Just Me to whatever then unfolds from that. Be kind to yourself; give yourself a little time to let that evolve.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on May 25, 2025, 12:09:26 AM
Ooh and another PS which applied to me but may or may not apply to your own reflections. Many of the ‘I wish I had done/known’ things that came out of my own reflections, things that would have kept me safer or ensured that I did not end up where I ended up, were also things that imho would have either made any normal relationship impossible or have made it very difficult for me to live life as the kind of person I am and wanted (want) to be. I genuinely do not know how one can share a life over time with another human without trusting them about a whole bunch of things, big and small. Not expecting perfection, but expecting a foundation of good intent and honesty. Again jmo but I honestly don’t believe the fault was mine in trusting….the fault lay with someone else proving to be untrustworthy. And I just didn’t know that was how it was…until I did.

I don’t see someone else’s untrustworthiness as my responsibility either. Or something to feel ashamed about or as a failure. The bad news about that is, if we’re being honest with ourselves, it highlights the limits of what we can control, doesn’t it? The good news is that it means it can be ok and good and normal to trust other people in future though!
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on June 01, 2025, 09:28:38 AM
Hello,

Quote
where she advises a wife NOT to tell the kids their dad had an affair - which is the reason they divorced. And that her perspective of his affair is only 'her' truth and telling your kids may come from a desire to get revenge on him so keep it to yourself. And in fact his perspective may be that it was just his natural reaction to a marriage that was already dying.

I agree that if the motive is to turn the kids against the wayward spouse, then it shouldn't be done. Even if you wish the cheater a permanent hangnail and case of terrible halitosis, that doesn't mean that you can let the children know that. However, that doesn't mean the children shouldn't know. If your spouse was addicted to drugs, you may have to divorce because the addiction is harming the other spouse and the children. It comes to survival, you have to make tough choices for yourself and the addict as well. Infidelity holds the same impact. Some marriages can survive, but many don't. Children should know that marriage is a commitment between two people and allowing someone else in violates that commitment. If you do tell the children, it should be matter of fact. "Yes, he/she had an affair and in my opinion, infidelity is a deal breaker." No need to rage or try to "win" the children over. It's a fact.

Your ex can't just try to escape his responsibility for his choices and actions. He made choices and they violated his commitments and vows. You can try to hide behind some words or other agendas, but you need to accept responsibility. That's life.

Quote
Usually, I encourage people to try and have some contact with the MLCer....but it might be time for you to eliminate him from your life...doesn't have to be forever...but a time out might help you to heal. I always think it is best for children to have contact with their father or mother...

It's funny, I did not want to hear anything from my ex. It set me on edge and it was never a good call or meeting. Then she apologized to me. Still had tension, but it has since gone down a lot. We don't speak often, but now we are cordial and polite. I still don't trust her, but I can see her perspective and work with her. Our children are grown and both of our daughters have relationships with myself and my ex. Of course, having a grandbaby has softened things a lot too. However, throughout the crisis and the aftermath, I never tried to dissuade the girls from contacting their mother. I think that enabling the children to see the other spouse actually prevent conflicts down the road that may negatively impact the LBSer.

I hope you have a great day. Continue to focus on your growth and if your ex sends you nonsense, there is always the delete button.

(((Ready)))
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: MadLuv on June 02, 2025, 05:47:11 PM
Time and distance certainly helps to bring clarity. I also really dug in and the last conversation I had with XH 2 years ago I knew I would jot talk to him most likely again, unless he wpuld be accountable. I apologized for all the things, actions etc that I felt I did wrong or I could have handled better. When I asked him if he had anything to say he just sad. i’m sorry. I dont know what happened to me. Nothing else. No clarity. No exact things he could have pointed out. In the end if you did the best you could with the relationship you were given thats all you can do.

One thing I so agree with now is even if they think they are covering well. We feel the change. Why? Because not only is some of their attention gone towards someone else, but that relationship them as well.  So that also is part of why you dont recognize them. We change even if we dont realize it ever so slightly with bew relationships, so its hard to find who we used to be with if they are changing to be someone elses priority.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on June 05, 2025, 11:54:40 AM
First and foremost thank you so much to those that replied! I so appreciate your wisdom and read your reponses multiple times. THANK YOU!

So he's here and the kids are so happy. It was my d graduation from elementary school and bday and it's great for her that he's here, my son is over the moon and in heaven having him around. It's sad how much he loves it bc we all know it's temporary.

I have let him know he has to get rid of his things and I am not moving with them. He is taking some back with him and he has asked me to store a few things in the garage until he can get those or for winter when he visits and I've said ok. In spite of trying to avoid any serious conversations, he did at one point say to me, 'yes the affair was my mistake, but all the other mistakes leading up to that, were yours" and basically kind of blamed me for triggering this.

It's outrageous i know, but what's hard is that there is some truth in some of the things he said! I should not have assumed he could make this big a sacrifice for me and be ok with it long term. And that asking him to leave his dream job and move so far away from his homeland would dismantle him so entirely. I didn't see that coming - and if I had to do it again, I'm not sure honestly what I would do. Because the fact is, this job has been a complete godsend and blessing for me, and I believe the kids and I are all doing better out here than we would be in London. However, we no longer have a husband and dad and that is a huge deal and piece we are all missing. I don't know if I believe he would have done this dramatic of a move away from us if we were still there, but I will say I'm not sure what the quality of my marriage would be!

He walks around here and he is helpful. he does a lot of yard work and lifting and oil change and packing and all the things I've asked. he is mostly nice, but I've noticed he takes little jabs at me like in a 'joking' tone but not nice (you talk too much, you always said no to everything, i know you won't do what i'm asking but) stuff like that. i ignore them or if I can be bothered I say something back, 'well maybe i talk a lot sure but the too much part is subjective. lots of people love exactly how much i talk" and then walk away. He also is hugely rude sometimes and grouchy and annoying. He looks so bad ! really disheveled and his eyes have no spark. He has aged like 10 years since all this started. He was always a handsome and in shape guy but he's let himself go terribly and we really do not look like we fit together (in addition to not actually fitting together). he is 8 years younger than me but looks 10 years older.

I've asked him to take kids mini golfing and laser tag today as a last day of school treat. My D wants to see her friends one last time before she goes on holiday and we move. He was annoyed but said yes ok. i mean can you imagine? annoyed? he barely sees them! he should be happy to do it!  he wanted to take my son to the outlets shopping instead - which would be for him too obvs.

He said to me today - I get the feeling you don't want me at all in Tennessee. I said, it's not that, you should visit your kids - but in my new home, I'm turning a page and a new start for me and I am not 'bringing you with me". Therefore I don't want your stuff in the house. And i said, visit NYC with your AP and then go see your kids in Tenn I don't even care, but stay in a hotel. marry her and be rich and stay in a hotel. He looked appalled. He doesnt like me to talk about her, or seem ok with her I think. He acknowledged that he wants me to just wait for him and stay his wife and keep the door open. I said, i would never accept that, as you know.

lastly, i said to him, you see only your own pain, and but there is other pain. Mine is big, and so is your kids. You have gone off and started a new life with a new family and we are all having to move on without you and it's not always easy so we are doing what we need to do.

I dont think anything lands tho, as ever, or if it does, it lasts max 5mins.

But having him here, being around him, as hard as it is, makes me miss him less. Makes me see that I don't want him and I really, really don't want to live with him. So altho being around him sucks, I will love him less, will miss him less, and the kids are much happier.

That is the upside I guess.
Title: Re: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: marvin4242 on June 05, 2025, 01:38:50 PM
One thing jumps out at me from your last post: whatever it is you "did" how did you make him do anything? Do you have some magical power to make him (and others) do things they do not want?

I know it's obvious but I want to underscore the fact that healthy functioning adults CAN and DO state their needs, and will not simply go along with something only to then play the victim. He chose to betray your trust, anything else he says is a minor form of gaslighting. Even if you insisted and he didn't agree he could have at that time and place left.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: MadLuv on June 05, 2025, 02:53:19 PM
I also want to twist this a bit also . I gave up my job so my XH could have his dream job. I was miserable in my next position, so much I ended up quitting after 25 years, but with that said knowing what I know now he was already on a slippery slope. So, was it the new job or was it him pulling away. Was it not having support ?

 I just think it’s so easy for them to pick apart things and it is also so easy for us to blame ourselves. In the end you didn’t leave, deceive, lack communication . Relationships take two willing individuals that are fully in. 💯 not 50 or 80. For what it’s worth I am also a talker. I have friends that say, I know I have to block 1 to 2 hours if I am calling you. Hahaha  I’m not offended. Don’t  let him ever make you believe his nit picky issues. There are just as many you can say about him. Marriage is work. A lot of work. He failed at it and you didn’t.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on June 05, 2025, 11:38:43 PM
I have to agree strongly with Marvin and ML on this. Tbh I think it is one of the big life lessons from this experience…we really can’t ‘make’ people do or feel or say things. And that out magic mind reading hats are seriously limited. Which also means we are simply never responsible for their actions, only our own. Close your eyes and try it lol…you couldn’t even make him be happy to spend time with his girl at laser tag, honesty, fidelity and alternative career planning options seem like a stretch ha ha.

I am confident that your job move did not happen overnight or involve handcuffs…he had plenty of opportunities to say No or I’m not sure or I’m a bit worried about or Can we talk through how that might work. Did he do that? And if he did, did you roll over him like a bulldozer and tell him to shut up bc his wishes or concerns didn’t matter? I’m guessing probably not.

Important imho to keep your eyes on facts rather than someone else’s rewriting of history. Even if it really seems that they believe it. As our late Queen famously said ‘Recollections May vary’!

It’s interesting too that his inherent take on the job move (when he did not use his mouth to protest, but other bits of his working parts seemingly) is how self-centred his assumptions are, that somehow his needs outweigh those of the other three members of his family?

 I know plenty of fathers/husbands who would see doing what is best for their family as the mark of being a ‘real man’, that ability to practically put your family first, to be their protector. And I certainly know lots of women who do that every day for their kids. But it seems that your xh (is he xh now?) doesn’t see it that way at all but more the other way round, that it’s your collective job to make HIM happy and put him first.

The other thing that jumps out at me is the digs he is making? One of the habits of disordered folks is to try to make themselves feel bigger by trying to make others feel smaller. Plus it can make others feel a bit unsettled so it gives you a feeling of control perhaps…an invitation to ‘dance harder’ to please me. It’s a power play, not a conversation.

I suspect the underpinning reason for this is that your planned move so obviously does not include him as a ‘pop up guest’ and he feels a bit surprised and miffed about it. So, like a child, he is ‘acting out’.  Things are not working out as he thought they would, are they, and he is not continuing to be the centre of your collective universe, free to do whatever he wants with no nasty consequences. Which makes no rational sense bc HE left, of course, but these folks are not driven by rationality, are they? With time, I have no doubt that his words will sting less and just sound like blah blah blah. And quite possibly, Moscow Mule or his family or cheese will be the object of blame for his woes - anything but him really. Again, these folks are almost always given to being passive-aggressive and indirect in how they communicate….digs over direct conversation…well until they opt for plain aggressive. It’s a strange thing but seen here quite often that years on these folks can still be full of bile and resentment and blame long past the point when the LBS plays any role in their lives at all. And it’s difficult for most of us to get that bc we LBS tend to be wired very differently.

So, hold your course. Anything he does not collect by the time you move goes in the bin. And, whilst he is welcome to make arrangements to see his kids and I’m sure you will facilitate them visiting him, he is never ever going to stay over in your new home.  Not once. And yes, that’s bc he is not welcome in your new home or your new unfolding life. That’s why God invented motels and airbandb lol.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: MadLuv on June 06, 2025, 05:31:28 AM
Quote
Not once. And yes, that’s bc he is not welcome in your new home or your new unfolding life. That’s why God invented motels and airbandb
hehe…amen!!!
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: OffRoad on June 13, 2025, 05:21:11 PM
Here is where I have a problem with the "It's YOUR fault" claim. Most of us were blindsided. We had zero idea that there was anything wrong, or that something was rolling through the MLCer's mind.

If I took the last apple and it bothered the mlcer, could I know that if i wasn't told? If I repeatedly didn't buy enough apples and the MLCer didn't get one, but no one told me, is it my fault that I had no idea he didn't get any if he didn't tell me? If I threw away a bad apple and the mlcer wanted to cut out the parts that might be good and I had no idea he would even do such a thing, is that on me? If I never bought apples because I didn't like them and no one told me they wanted apples, am I to blame?

In all of the above, I did all those thing, took the last apple, didn't buy enough, threw away a bad one, never bought apples, but it was not my fault that the MLCer had whatever problem he had AND NEVER SAID ANYTHING. 

How many of us, if told we hadn't bought enough apples, would NOT go out and buy apples to make it right? How many of us would not say "Oh, there is a problem, how can we fix it?" But we have to KNOW that the problem is there to even work out a compromise.

Do not take on the blame for a person who didn't have the ability to convey that they were having a problem with something that was happening. People with honor, integrity, loyalty and morals don't try to fix problems by having an affair, or abandoning their families. How would that even make sense?

Now, if there is something about yourself you want to improve for you, good on you. But do not for a minute think if you had jumped through every hoop he tells you you didn't, it would have made any difference at all. He'd have just found more hoops for you. IMO and in my experience. Your mileage may vary.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on June 13, 2025, 11:52:25 PM
Such wise words from OR here.
If you’ve read along on the forum for a while, you see all kinds of ridiculous ‘faults’…working too much or not enough, paying too much attention to kids or not enough, too thin or too fat, too much fun at social events or not social enough….the list is endless and a bit bonkers…..buying bagged salad always sticks in my mind. 😝

None of us is perfect of course. And we LBS types tend to be quick at taking responsibility and rather earnestly trying to do our best, so imho we can be an easy mark for this stuff.

But you know the other thing that seems to be pretty common? MLC types are very poor at doing either of those things. And they create bizarre false equivalences. So, your ‘bad’ apples behaviour justifies, and is equal to, a whole raft of extreme betrayal, deceit and life-altering damage for you and everyone else involved. And it really isn’t, you know. Apples vs putrid pears imho. I’m quite confident that, with all my normal imperfections, I had done nothing in my 50+years on the planet that warranted what my xh did to me. Saying otherwise is just gaslighting BS, usually imho done to avoid an appropriate amount of personal responsibility for someone else doing bad things and lying about it. Which is just not my responsibility lol…if I had those kind of magic mind reading/get others to do what I want powers, I’d have used them for much more productive and happy things than I got in this situation!

There are grown up, honest and respectful ways to end a marriage if that is what you decide you want to do. Difficult but possible, particularly once the first emotional shock of it subsides. That wasn’t what happened to us, that wasn’t the choice they made. And at a simple level I suspect that is bc it was too hard and too grown up and too much personal responsibility taking to do that….easier for them to create huge damage and blame it on others. That says quite a lot about the kind of people they are and nothing much at all about us imho.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on August 31, 2025, 05:15:43 PM
It's been a long time since I checked in with you all. Last time was the start of a very hectic summer for me, and now I'm at the very end of it. Never have I looked forward to an autumn more.

So, we went on holiday to Antalya as a family. It was both better and worse than you might expect. There were warm, affectionate moments from him, compliments and there were utterly cruel, cutting moments as well. He did better than he's done some years in terms of paying attention to the kids - but there were also many selfish moments that visibly hurt their feelings. The conflicting emotions he once had about us appear to have fled.  He has made a very clear choice to pursue a new life with his AP. At the end of the trip I told him the divorce was, in fact final, his response was to (after I'd left the house) sit both the kids down and tell them not to trust what I'd told them about him and that I had lied to them and I was equally responsible for this break up. So basically the one parent you have now, who consistently shows up, you can't trust them either. My daughter (12) wasn't hearing any of it, yelled at him and left the room but my poor 8 year old son was confused and upset.

As for me, I was very up and down the whole time. I felt strung out, on edge and it was virtually impossible to relax. I was counting the days until I left - in fact he was so intolerable at the end that I went to a resort for the last 3 days on my own and left him with the kids and his sisters to go white water rafting. I was so glad to get out of that group activity. I don't plan on ever going there again - maybe if my FIL dies, I love him and he has been so supportive of me through this whole thing, but even from his grave he would understand if I didn't. I realized this trip that I am grieving not just my ex but my life. I loved Antalya, we have hundreds of precious moments and memories there and as I lose him, I lose that special place that felt like home too. He has ruined all those memories for me, at least for now.

One low point for me was realizing that he had had his AP in our home a month or so before we got there. He had told me she had not stayed in our home again since last year, and so I took the master bedroom for myself. But  I found her lotions and potions in MY nightstand (one of which was an unmentionable one) and her shoes in my closet.  He didn't realize ab the shoes bc my daughter and I leave ours there or he would certainly have hidden them.  She left the shoes directly at eye level and next to his. She even left her boarding pass for me to find. I was absolutely devastated that this gross old bag had been in my space, my bed, and our family home. When I LOST it, my ex said to me, 'you knew i was f'iing her in that bed, so why did you want to sleep in it"? It was prob the meanest thing he's EVER said to me. it was beyond cruel, it was abusive. That was the same day we ran around to like 10 different notaries so I could sign over the flat there to him, which I had promised to do - our divorce was final at this stage and everything else was mine. 

One note - when I found all of her gear, i threatened NOT to sign over the flat to him out of pique and he raged at me in a way that made my children sob.  I saw then how out of control he is mentally. And also that the thing that affects him most is when something he wants materially is threatened or taken away.  His behavior was disgusting. It also made me think that whenever this affair ends, if this rich old bag tries to take something away from him that she's given him, and she's as evil /selfish as I believe her to be, there will almost certainly be violence between them. I'm sure of it.

So after all that, trauma really, I went to London on my own with my kids. It was great. We had a super time the three of us reconnecting with old friends. There were hard moments, being asked about what happened by friends who knew and loved us as a couple, running around trying to juggle work (by that time I had hardly any vacation left) and childcare but it was super. One of my closest friends flew in from Portugal with her son just to see us for a few days and we stayed with my best friend in Surrey, who is a gorgeous psychoanalyst, just the kind of wisdom I needed that week.

From there it was direct to NYC for 3 days of all day meetings. I splurged and got me and the kids premium economy from London. It was some of the best money i've ever spent. From there we flew back to Cali where we had THREE DAYS to pack up and move before the truck came and we've been in Thompsons Station Tenn since July 24th. Kids started school Aug 4th.

You know, until you get to a place, you don't really know how it's going to feel. It was like I jumped off a cliff (where should we move to, to start over?) and was figuring it out on the way down - and I was hugely relieved to get here and realize this was home. I have felt at home here since day 1 and i love being here with all of my heart.

The first morning after we arrived I took an uber to pick up a rental car for us to use until my car got out here, and it was tuned to a Christian radio station when I got in.

The VERY first song I heard was called 'Breakthru' by Andrew Ripp.

These are the lyrics:

If you're washed up on a lonesome shore
Soul crushed and tired
If you're curled up on the kitchen floor
And the house is on fire

And if you couldn't feel further from redemption
You're the closest you've ever been
Rock bottom is a firm foundation
You'll see, my friend

This is not a breakdown
It's a breakthrough
This is not a midnight
It's a brand new morning
When it dawns on the dark
This is not the moment
When it all falls apart
It's a beautiful place to start

You'll find yourself thanking the storm
Cuz the floodgates have opened
You'll let go of standing on the edge
For what the future is holding

Hear your prayers turn from begging God
To praising Him
As you're finding He's always been
Much closer than air you're breathing
Breathe in, my friend

This is not a breakdown
It's a breakthrough
This is not a midnight
It's a brand new morning
When it dawns on the dark
This is not the moment
When it all falls apart
It's a beautiful place to start

"A beautiful place to start" I heard that as I was driving thru rolling green hills and fields. I mean, how apt was that?

Also 'Rock bottom is a firm foundation" YES IT IS. I am finding that! Truer words were never spoken. Honestly hearing that, that first morning was so powerful for me. It felt like a little gift from God.

The kids like school, the house we're building is coming along nicely and it looks it will be finished early (!) and the condo we are all crowded up in, is absolutely cozy and perfect. I love it.  During our move my ex was calling a lot and I didn't answer. I refused to engage. I wanted to come here and feel like it was a truly clean slate. I was terse, didn't reply or kept things very short and only ab kids and blocked him twice.

Now, a few weeks later, he's given up and vanished entirely. He does not message me at all, even to ask ab the kids. Embarrassed to admit that even tho I was not really speaking to him, this bothers me.  I got my son his own phone so he could call his dad and my ex never even messaged a thank you to me for getting it for him. No acknowledgement whatsoever. He acts now as if I do not exist. That also hurts. My 12 year old daughter does respond to his messages now but always short and not always right away  - and  now he's stopped messaging her too.

I still hurt, I still grieve the man I remember for some reason I'm having some kind of second wave of grief right now. As all the adrenaline of the move wore off and I've settled in, and he's completely vanished, I find myself longing for him. It's painful to look at old photos right now. I still hope he won't be this way (selfish, narcissistic) forever - even if it's too late for us - for my kids' sake -but I worry that after 2 years of being this selfish and fancy free with zero responsibility or accountability he's loving it - i mean how do you put THAT back into a box?

One other note, ydy was a Sat. I had posted a photo of my son on IG and my ex commented 'he is my heart' . I hid the comment. I had spent the day shuttling my daughter to the mall, taking my son for a haircut and an emergency trip to walmart bc his nerf gun was permanently jammed, and then a new shake he wanted to try at Mcdonalds. I wanted to write to my ex 'your 'heart' is walking around with needs. He has an IEP, ADHD meds to monitor, lots of big emotions, real fear about the future, a mean kid at school, and is a beautiful, sensitive soul with a desperate need of masculine energy and strength to draw from. - and where exactly are you?" in fact, that evening my son called his dad and he'd just had an evening swim on the beach near our Antalya home and sat on the boardwalk and talked to my son for 45 mins. he prob congratulated himself afterwards on being a good dad. An evening swim!!!!

This was significant to me -because in the past, when he was home in Turkey he called the kids all the time, it was only when he was with his AP in Barcelona or Moscow that he disappeared into her world. This time, he was at his home, free to call them without observation, and he still did not. First time that's happened. His bond with them or interest in them has lessened to that degree I guess. That hurts deeply.

One day about 2 weeks ago he randomly liked about 50 of my FB photos (i had all these notifications that he 'liked' photos going back even years before we met) not sure what that was about. Maybe it was his way of saying goodbye.

Oh and PS, I joined a dating app.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Reinventing on September 01, 2025, 02:41:02 AM
AL, I was just thinking about you and wondering how you were.

Wow, he does know how to be cruel and I'm glad you were able to get out of your house where he had been with her in your bed. And of course she left her things there on purpose. I don't even have to say what that says about her.

I'm also glad you are carving a new life in a new place. Yes, the grieving what was and what was hoped to be makes complete sense. That takes such a long time. Especially while you build a foundation of how things look in your new place.

I hope the new place brings you, D, and S much joy and contentment. That you can feel settled down to your bones and have a foundation of favorite routines sprinkled with new adventures.

And especially after that most recent traumatic experience, know that your tender heart is bruised and so guard it fiercely while you continue to heal.

And yes, we have seen things go up in flames with exes and OW. Your ex is completely now at her mercy, just where she wants him.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on September 03, 2025, 12:06:45 AM
I am very glad that your move to TN feels good - a number of us have found small town life rather comforting after our old ‘big town lives’ got blown up. I think it’s perhaps a normal response to trauma to want to feel the edges of life on a smaller stage. More control, more peace, more appreciation of simple blessings can be very healing after a long period of chaos, uncertainty and loss.

I wish I were surprised by the behaviour of both xh and ow, but I’m not. It seems to be part of the pathology that these folks like to metaphorically pee on your shoes over and over again. Why? I don’t know. At best, I think it demonstrates a depth of disrespect, almost a kind of dehumanisation. At worst, it’s the kind of bile that to me suggests a kind of repressed rage. I can (just about) comprehend it in the first few months of shock and conflict, but I find it hard to understand why - particularly when apparently these folks have got what they said they wanted - they are unwilling to act with some basic courtesy and respect. But it is common that they don’t…..and the only answer imho is to remove one’s metaphorical shoes from urinating range lol. As you are doing. And keep reminding yourself that it still isn’t about you or your kids. Plus rock solid boundaries about how much respect you require to take off your shoes with anyone!

You are a beautiful woman in her prime starting a new life in a new place with her fantastic kids. You have people in your life who love and respect you. By all means, enjoy dating if that is what you want but go slow….this level of loss and upheaval can create some internal hiccups that last longer than we might think. And disordered folks can smell vulnerability imho - good solid boundaries on basics like respect keep us away from them while we wait for a decent adult human to show up! Bc they do exist. 😝
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: FaithWalker on September 04, 2025, 09:05:46 PM
Great update, AL.  I'm glad you all are loving your new place you are carving out just for the 3 of you.  I'm sorry about your trip to Antalya, but I'm glad you were able to recover with friends in London and your Portugal friend.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on September 07, 2025, 06:22:44 PM
Thank you for the kind replies.
I read this today and loved it
“Every authentic new beginning is birthed within the courageous acceptance of a definite ending.”

Feels ab right.
Title: Re: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: forthetrees on September 08, 2025, 06:27:31 AM
Been thinking about you and hoping the kiddos are adjusting well to a new neighborhood, like their teachers, have joined some activities and have found potential friends. Also wish that for you and your Mom as well:)
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: MadLuv on September 11, 2025, 08:03:33 PM
Glad your new location is working out. On your X and OW, well they are perfect for each other right now. You are who you surround yourself with and I have accepted that the fall of my XH happened when he started by his turning away from his family. They know it. They attach to the ones that are on the level they are now. It’s sad, but it’s also very confirming to know it’s not you. It’s him. It’s them!

Hope the kids have a great year in school and continued healing for you
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: amazinglove on September 11, 2025, 08:35:39 PM
Thank you for all these kind and thoughtful replies. I’m embarrassed how long my update was! Was multitasking and hit post but could have used an edit here! Sorry ab that. I’m heading into year 2 of BD anniversary and I would love to ask this group- if u went back to year 1 of BD what would you tell yourself? In retrospect where were you on your journey?
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: zartheit on September 12, 2025, 10:13:24 AM
Don't worry, my updates are verbose as hell.

I'm sorry about the upcoming date. I can relate. I just recently "celebrated" my... I don't even know what to call it... expired anniversary. Previous years were hard, very hard. This year wasn't "easy" but it just didn't have the same bite to it. It did have me resolve to "close the door". I want to amplify the good, and hoping (however ambiently) for someone else's epiphany is hurting me. The reasoning that occurred was the "only" thing that matters is the origin of an action, where the action stems from. Is it from love? From fear? Jealousy? Anger? Humor? What is the seed, the catalyst? THAT is the gravity well, the strange attractor, the plow for the ridges to canals to canyons. If it isn't something I want more of, why feed it? Why grow it? Why cultivate it and care for it? If it is something I want less of, why not practice letting go? So I'm practicing letting go of the desire for reconciliation. Not out of spite, but out of a desire for wholeness.

if u went back to year 1 of BD what would you tell yourself? In retrospect where were you on your journey?

I would tell myself:
Quote
You're doing great. Comparison is the joy-killer. Whatever is coming up for you is what is coming up for you. There is no sense judging it, and thinking there is something wrong with me. Two concepts come to mind: "the journey to hell and back yield transferable skills", and "the gift of time". Right now is a liminal space, a laboratory, a reflecting pond. Certainly you never requested a seat at this table, but now that you're here you truly can make the best of it. Now is the time for digging deep, for getting to know yourself more than you ever dreamed possible, for befriending your mind and truly swimming in an ocean of self-love. Being able to sit with yourself and show compassion and patience for yourself is what will soothe away the hurt.

That intense pain is no longer present for me. I am grateful for that. But sometimes, I forget. I take it for granted. Which is something I couldn't conceive of while trapped at the bottom of the well.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: OffRoad on September 12, 2025, 01:24:58 PM
Thank you for all these kind and thoughtful replies. I’m embarrassed how long my update was! Was multitasking and hit post but could have used an edit here! Sorry ab that. I’m heading into year 2 of BD anniversary and I would love to ask this group- if u went back to year 1 of BD what would you tell yourself? In retrospect where were you on your journey?
For my situation, I'd have told myself to get separate sooner, but you can't know that in the beginning. I stood for 18 months and he lived here with me and it was terrible for me. I'd have been much better off if I had just kicked him out. But that isn't true of everyone.

I would also tell myself on a regular basis that it wasn't about me. That I could not fix what someone didn't tell me was wrong or something I never did. That you can't "love" them out of it. That trying to figure out "what that means' is futile. That trying to understand is futile. It just is. This is what you have, how do you want to deal with it? And the most important thing is I would have told myself to stop accepting substandard behavior from my H. (I finally did 6 month in, but why did I take it in the first place? Wrong on so many levels.) That I deserve decency in the people I associate with, including my H.

My advice to most people is to take care of yourself and head off down your own path. If your path converges with the MCLer, fine. It if doesn't, that's ok because you will be in a good place anyway. I wish I'd understood that my first year, rather than trying to "make the marriage work" all on my own since he was not engaged in that at all.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: FaithWalker on September 12, 2025, 09:57:14 PM
I think I would try to get myself to realize that the marriage died at BD and that what was happening was not a marriage issue but a "him" issue.  It took me much too long to figure out that I was collateral damage and that I needed to focus on me and not the marriage and move forward into MY future. 

I do think I probably was "stuck" for quite some time and impeded my own healing being so focused on what he was or was not doing.
Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Treasur on September 13, 2025, 05:06:11 AM
I agree with others about not falling into the comparison trap - there can be a lot of hidden ‘shoulds’ in there which are not always helpful and it can trick you into ‘measuring’ yourself against things which are not real and not about you. I found that, regardless of what I told myself lol, in the end I was where I was anyway and one can only craft a path forward from today.

Having said all of that, that impulse is an understandable one; perhaps it’s more about a need to feel that ‘better’ or ‘ok’ is in sight.

When I was where you are? I was a very hot flailing mess; it was about the time I first came here with all my ramblings! I think now that my biggest gift to myself would have been to be able to be more honest that my whole life had just been torpedoed into oblivion oretty much. That nothing was the same. And that this is obviously a really big life-altering deeply traumatic thing. So it was reasonable and normal and predictable that I was a hot flailing mess. No reflection on my character or failing on my part…it felt huge and overwhelming bc it WAS huge and overwhelming. I felt uncertain and afraid and distressed bc that was a real and normal response to what had happened/was happening. I think now that it is tough to find a way to inch forward or find a decent solution until one can name a ‘problem’ with some accuracy…true in life writ large I think. Imho a lot of ‘problem solving’ is a function of the window you look through and how you define the ‘problem’. Like others here, I suspect I kept describing it as a marriage problem or a him problem for longer than was useful and that kept me in a kind of relentless tornado limbo beyond my control. Took me about 3 years to even see that I had PTSD when, with hindsight, it was blindingly obvious! But until I could tentatively name it, I couldn’t address it or get the right kind of help if that makes sense? Sounds a bit silly, I know, but that was how it was for me.

So, that’s why imho it’s not as useful as you might think to compare yourself to where others were/are. But it is quite useful perhaps to name your own current ‘tune’ as accurately as you can….bc that’s how you begin to figure out what you need as a tomorrow step or a next week step. And that’s how you can also start to observe your own progress from A to B, whatever B looks like to you.

It doesn’t really matter but there are lots of ways in which you have achieved things already that I didn’t, so please accept a ‘yay you’ from over here 😝 even if only to focus on the glass half-full!

But most importantly, AL, how would you describe where you are right now? And what you feel your next might be?

Title: I Came. I Cried. I Conquered.
Post by: Reinventing on September 13, 2025, 11:33:08 PM
AL,

I would tell myself 5 things:
(1) I'm going to be okay
(2) I won't always feel this way, it does get better
(3) the most important thing is for me to heal
(4) I can only control myself
(5) Be patient with myself, this was traumatic

See number one again