Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: BonBon on August 30, 2011, 10:32:01 AM
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I took a walk at lunch and started thinking. Certainly, we are all here becuase we have been treated poorly (at least) by our spouse. Now I know that being married is not a pre-requisite for the MLC as single people have them too (or so I've read).
So since the consensus is that MLC is something these people HAVE to go through, is their ill treatment of their partners something they HAVE to do as well...or could that be avoided?
I guess my curiosity is whether they all have an underlying character flaw...perhaps selfishness, immaturity, narcissism, entitlement? I'm not sure. I know narcissim has been discussed here before...I just thought I'd throw this out and see what people think.
Prior to all this, I would not have attributed any of the above negative characteristics to my H but I certainly would now. So did he have these negatives before and I didn't see them? And therefore, it was sure to come out during MLC? Or are these negatives just a part of MLC and the fog is so great, he could not have helped to treat me like dirt?
Thoughts?
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I think I'm one of the few that doesn't really get treated badly. My wife
just isn't acting as a wife should IMO. I try not to take is personal.
She does seem to think the world owes her something though.
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I think the bad treatment is part of the journey and yes we have these bad traits under our surface but you can't fault yourself for not seeing them in your H before the MLC got going. Just remember, there is a reason they call it Monster. It is like a werewolf, like a vampire, like Frankenstein's monster. It used to be human. You remember it from when it was human. You can still see past fur and fangs and neck bolts where it used to be a human. You're like the hero of the book or movie trying to warn people everywhere the pods have taken over but YOU then look like the crazy one. Even Frank Vam Wolf would never admit he's treating you poorly, to him he's just giving you what he now thinks you deserve. Bad behavior is in the eye of the tormentor. Apparently the fog's very inviting, and warm, and comes with a conscience-dulling property, the likes of which we have no concept. You H can't help it; I firmly believe he is not entirely under his own control now.
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for my own sitch
my H has always been a VERY selfish man...and thats putting it mildly..lol
but aside from the OW sitch and the "selfish" behaviour that comes with MLC. My H has not shown
me much of any Monster...maybe 3 times since BD a year ago.
Dont know if that helps.
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An MLCer's actions can be cruel because their aim is for pain with the intention of hurting you so that you will hate them, lose hope and give them what they want
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Bon, when I saw this thread I remembered saving this quote somewhere in the early days; finally found it. RCR may have written it, or someone else; but I did remember it and had it saved in my personal documents, and felt it may be helpful to you too.
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Hi Bon;
I think the quote Tsunami posted is correct. My husband asked me during a phone conversation about him sending ow flowers and writing "Thanks for being you. I love you" on card if I hated him. That was all that concerned him. I hope you are feeling better.
Searching
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I think my H was always selfish, he is an only child and was given total freedom by his parents, never accountable. His parents are also selfish and their R was very poor, they did very little together watched TV in separate rooms, separate holidays ... but they stayed together? Very different to the long loving R my parents had, and which I expected to have, they were so happy together, just as me and H were for the first 10 years.
When me & H met in 1988, I gave all my attention to him and he enjoyed that, our problems started when our girls were born in 1998 ... he didn't like that they took most of my attention (twins) he wanted to continue to do the stuff we'd done before, but it wasn't possible. I wanted him to spend time with me & the girls but he wanted to be out on his motorbike. Then he told me I was neglecting him!!
Whilst I was his 'love' his selfishness didn't really register, because he was so involved with me and protected me I was too wrapped up in him to see it. But now, it is so obvious to me and my girls just how selfish he is, and MLC has made it so much worse. The man who has taken 2 holidays with OW says he can't afford to take his D's to eat out. He is so mean to them it breaks my heart. He says they don't give him love but he should be the one giving, he's the grown up after all (well he used to be!)
So I think MLC has made his selfishness worse at the moment, but who knows, maybe when he comes out of it, he will realise this isn't the best way to be. My D's already tell him he's mean, and they're only 13 ... its like having 3 teenagers around the way they speak to each other. I just keep out of it and walk away, but I do feel sorry for my girls.
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lpxpe
Our children are smart kids arent they?? My d13 told my H that He scared her because he wasnt her daddy anymore and
nothing but a monster.
That hit home for him....he didnt treat her like crap after that. (thank goodness)
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"An MLCer's actions can be cruel because their aim is for pain with the intention of hurting you so that you will hate them, lose hope and give them what they want"
The quote above is the last sentence in the article titled "Love & Hate".
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BB,
You have set this thread up, just at the right moment....I had a pathetic altercation with my H yesterday (my fault for falling into the trap). But afterwards I thought "so what if he is in MLC, is that an excuse to treat me like c**p?" For that matter, what do I teach my d, if she sees a man speaking to a woman in this way (or vice versa). So I was thinking hard about it.
First thoughts - H is controlling. That's because he is really unconsciously so out of control. He is selfish - narcissitic - because he is avoiding guilt and projecting elsewhere and I guess 'cos he is scared. BUT....I can't do anything about it. I know when I begin to feel like a doormat - it is when I choose to lie down.
The quote from RCR's website is accurate. Before I found this site, a comment I made to my H: "It seems like you are doing everything you can so I will hate you so it is easier for you to deal with..." then reading RCR's article it felt true. To me, MLCer's are self abusers. I don't mean this in a condemning way. I mean in a sad way 'cos they are not in a place to see it.
Sil x
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My husband rarely treats me badly, outside of having an A. But, I have only seen monster two or three times, and those were times when I brought R talks. So, I don't have those anymore and I don't see monster. He did act cold to me for awhile, but now, it doesn't seem he is giving me the cold shoulder anymore. But I don't see him very often either.
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Apparently the fog's very inviting, and warm, and comes with a conscience-dulling property, the likes of which we have no concept. You H can't help it; I firmly believe he is not entirely under his own control now.
Wed2 - This is something that goes around and around in my head. What is the conscience? And why is there a complete lack of it in this state.
This for me is one of the HARDEST parts to understand of this cr*p shoot.
Anyone have any further information on this?
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I took a walk at lunch and started thinking. Certainly, we are all here becuase we have been treated poorly (at least) by our spouse. Now I know that being married is not a pre-requisite for the MLC as single people have them too (or so I've read).
So since the consensus is that MLC is something these people HAVE to go through, is their ill treatment of their partners something they HAVE to do as well...or could that be avoided?
I guess my curiosity is whether they all have an underlying character flaw...perhaps selfishness, immaturity, narcissism, entitlement? I'm not sure. I know narcissim has been discussed here before...I just thought I'd throw this out and see what people think.
Prior to all this, I would not have attributed any of the above negative characteristics to my H but I certainly would now. So did he have these negatives before and I didn't see them? And therefore, it was sure to come out during MLC? Or are these negatives just a part of MLC and the fog is so great, he could not have helped to treat me like dirt?
Speaking as someone who had an MLC and recovered it is SOOOO discouraging to read these comments sometimes. I have been in your shoes--my first husband left due to infidelity and treated me horribly--and I do realize that a big cause for statements like this is the desire to figure out what in the world happened! And yet, I do routinely see people on here basically counting the MLC'er as mentally ill or mentally deficient just because they are going through MLC! It's disheartening.
I can not definitively speak for each one of your MLC'ers but let me explain for you what happened to me. Before my MLC I would have described myself as kind, gentle, warm-hearted, thoughtful, peaceful and fairly mentally healthy. Perfect? NO! But not mentally ill or immature or self-centered either. Dear Hubby and I have seven children together so as you might gather we truly love children! LOL. Well in rather rapid succession, we miscarried and then found out he was not able to father children and then found out I was entering menopause! His reaction was to withdraw (that's how he deals with something painful) and my reaction to that was to feel like an old, unwanted, unattractive dried up old prune! Seriously it felt like if I had lit myself on fire and danced naked his response would have been "Huh?" so I thought, "Okay I guess I'll find my own interests and do a few things *I* like to do" and I found a game where my role was to draft constitutions and legal contracts in accordance with the rules of the game. I LOVED it and lo and behold this other male person also found it interesting. Shortly, we were working together on some constitutions and I'd try to tell Dear Hubby and he'd sort of give me that blank stare like "I have no idea what you mean" or "That sounds utterly boring" so here I had one person whom I didn't know who had passion and interest in something I found interesting, and I had the man I wanted who found those things boring...and thus I thought found ME boring!!
See what I mean though? There's no mental illness or self-centeredness there ... PER SE. I believe it's human nature to want to feel young, vibrant and interesting. I bet most of you wish your MLC'er felt that way about you...and that's why you are ripe for the picking to also have an affair unless you know of the dangers ahead of time and protect yourself. However, once the desire to feel young, vibrant and interesting is met by someone (anyone) OTHER THAN your spouse, what begins to happen is like a slow degradation into Mid-Life Crisis. Morally you know that having the need met by someone other than your spouse is "wrong", but feeling young, vibrant and interesting FEELS SO GOOD so you don't want that to end...and the mind is very, VERY good at coping and justifying. That's what denial is all about: I *KNOW* this is wrong but I like it, so my mind is just going to deny reality and say "The kids won't be harmed" "It wasn't meant to be" etc. Is it mental illness to be in denial? Well somewhat it is yes. And the key to recovery, from what I can understand, hinges on one thing. Will the MLC'er choose of their own accord to face reality and then deal with it? Or will they continue to pretend and deny and justify?
What happens--I think--is that those who recover find a way to reconcile themselves to growing older, losing youth, etc. They accept it within themselves as just a new phase of life, and one they don't want to go through without the person who was there with them through the OTHER phases of life! Those who don't find a way to accept it and deal with it get stuck in that mode of pursuing others "to make them feel...." and are those ridiculous 50 year old teenager-types. They run away from themselves for the entire rest of their lives!
My guess would be that during my own MLC that my Dear Hubby felt very lonely and sad, and yet since I was primarily living in a fantasy in my own head, I did not see the real world or what he was going through. In my world, I was young, vibrant and interesting--and I took someone's breath away and inspired passion. I can't honestly say that I paid attention to what he was going through. BUT I did also know it was wrong, and what woke me up was the day I was packing to leave and I *saw* him for some reason. Rather than just being involved in my own world, I *saw* him crying because my actions were hurting him. And that was the day I knew I could NOT do this anymore. That I did indeed feel bad and like a dried up old prune but that rather than turning to someone else to "make me feel young, vibrant and interesting" I had to face it and deal with it myself and make MYSELF feel young, vibrant and interesting because I am!!
So in conclusion, I do not think this quote is anywhere near accurate:
An MLCer's actions can be cruel because their aim is for pain with the intention of hurting you so that you will hate them, lose hope and give them what they want.
Our aim is to not feel old, ugly and dried up. Ideally we wish our SPOUSE made us feel young, beautiful and vibrant--but if they do not and someone else does...that feels good. Thus, although we know it's wrong we will justify it by things like denial and re-writing history. An MLC'er usually writes it so that the spouse is the "Bad Guy" and thus they'll poke you and hurt you until you snap...and THEN they can say "See? You are the Bad Guy! That justifies my adultery to make me feel lively and attractive." Then loyal spouses sit and ask, "Why do they hurt us over and over again like that?" Well...during the time when you're MLC your focus is on your own self, not feeling boring and unwanted, and thus why *would* you look at your spouse or the fact they may be hurting? In the MLC head they would probably say "Well I hurt for years and you didn't care...why should I care now?" It's definitely not reality-based and yet the cure isn't to say "Oh it's mental illness." Part of the cure (so to speak) would be to stop the activities that contributed to feeling old, ugly and boring and start again to contribute to the things that create loving, passionate feelings.
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Affaircare
Thank you for sharing your story.....I know you have alluded to it before. Based on what you have written, I have a couple of questions for you. While I understand you feel about that quote, it does not appear you experienced the Monster behavior that so many on this forum have experienced from their MLCers. Monster behavior can be mean and cruel. I experienced it from my spouse, as have many on this forum. What are your thoughts about Monster in relation to the quote?
Also, much of what you wrote seems to be around aging, or the feeling of aging, which we have read is a symptom of MLC. What do you think about the root cause of MLC versus the symptoms?
From the articles:
•Preoccupation or fear of aging or death
•Vanity: Obsession with appearance
•Dissatisfaction with previous goals
•Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped
•Impulsive or Compulsive Behaviour
•Irritability
•Restlessness
•Substance abuse
The above list is comprised of symptoms, not causes. Aging does not cause midlife crisis--it is inevitable; midlife crisis is not.
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I meant to look this up earlier to add it, but forgot.
From Affaircare
"I do routinely see people on here basically counting the MLC'er as mentally ill or mentally deficient just because they are going through MLC"
This is from the article Midlife Crisis Takes Time. Viewing MLC behavior in that way is a coping mechanism for the LBS.
Though MLC is not a state of true mental illness, I find that it is often helpful for the Left-Behind-Spouse (LBS) to view the behaviour in this manner. It is a coping mechanism; a metaphor that can help us to understand.
"Part of the cure (so to speak) would be to stop the activities that contributed to feeling old, ugly and boring and start again to contribute to the things that create loving, passionate feelings."
I think this is great marriage advice, but I'm not sure this is possible with someone in MLC.....it definitely was not in with my MLCer.
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I think this is great marriage advice but I'm not sure if it's possible with someone in MLC..
I totally agree with DGU, maybe in the long run it will help that I am fitter, healthier, slimmer than I've been for years, maybe at some time he will be interested in all the good things I've been doing, but not now. At the moment these things just say to him 'she's okay so I don't have to feel bad.'
Right from the beginning my H has pushed and pushed to try to make me take the decision to end our relationship. He has told me he wants me to be with someone else and all the other usual stuff. In the beginning his relationship with OW was total infatuation and 'true love', now I'm not sure and am beginning to wonder if he is using it to keep me at arms length, while at the same time saying that I am pushing them together by my 'hard-nosed attitude'.
AC is right about feeling old and boring. He has told me we were a boring couple, old before our time and he developed an obsession with a neighbour who he 'didn't want to turn into'. He was writing songs and all sorts about this guy. The OW is 20 years his junior and the thing he loves about her is that she is such 'fun'.
The question of 'is he selfish?'is one that I have had to wrestle with. After BD he made a big play of
that fact that both he and OW are selfish people and were only going to think of themselves from now on.
Regarding viewing MLC as an illness, I understand ACs view but I do think it's a coping mechanism.
Prior to BD when I was seriously ill my H treated me abominably. Our closest friend, who H has totally cut off despite friends continuing best efforts, said that if you didnt view it as some sort of illness/depression then his behaviour would be so unacceptable and outrageous that you could never have anything to do with him again. My parents feel the same. The MLCer is finding ways to justify his behaviour and I guess we have to do the same.
I think this is a very interesting thread and it would be good to hear more views.
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Hey Affaircare,
As a licensed mental health professional, I struggle with this not being some sort of mental illness. What you allude to is back to the growing old ideology as a cause of MLC, but I don't understand why so many leave their children behind as well. I KNOW that growing old was a huge trigger for my W, but I don't understand how she could leave the little ones behind like she has.
Also, more importantly since we are all in this already, what do you suggest about dealing with the MLCer. Was there anything your H did or could have done that may have opened the door for you to have started dealing with your issues? My W has already moved out and taken most of her stuff, and I don't see an end in sight to her teenage antics. I would be HAPPY to do teenagery stuff with her if that would help us to stay together. Do you have any suggestions that could help with my sitch?
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AffairCare,
Thank you for taking the time to write all of your thoughts and opinions. I made a mistake initially when I said that every MLCer treats their spouse badly. Obviously, some have written in to correct me on that. It was what I assumed based on the voluminous postings here of that sort of thing. I don't see much about spouses who are kind if however confused. But I'm sure there are a few.
There are theories of this being a mental issue due to fluctuating hormones, testosterone drops and so forth...and so while I'm not sure myself that MLC is a mental illness caused by organic issues, or whether it's an emotional illness caused by genetics, previous issues that arise anew, or just simply about someone not wanting to age, there is enough bizarre and out of character in many MLCers that I think it is helpful to think of it in this way. It is not an indictment...it is simply helpful for the LBS to think that perhaps their spouse is "ill". The alternative in many cases (not all) would be to instead think their spouse is or has turned into a rotten b*astard and many LBS's are unwilling to do that because they fell in love with this person and don't want to think they were wrong to do so.
At the least, many people believe the MLC is rooted in depression and as you noted, getting old can be depressing. Depression certainly can be a mental illness. There is no doubt about that but I will certainly say we can debate this issue regarding MLC.
I have to take issue with something you said so I'm going to quote you below:
"Our aim is to not feel old, ugly and dried up. Ideally we wish our SPOUSE made us feel young, beautiful and vibrant--but if they do not and someone else does...that feels good."
Well, I don't take issue with the statement that someone making us feel young and beautiful feels good. Of course it does. But when you write this, and as was the case with your husband that you wrote of, the assumption is that the LBS does not make the person feel young, beautiful and vibrant. I'm sure there are many cases where this is the case.
But I am also sure that there are many cases where this is NOT the case. I can only cite my example and I am not saying it is the exception nor it is the rule. But here's how I see it and my husband has acknowledged that yes, I did do the following things:
I find my husband to be stunningly handsome. I have commented on this to him on nearly a daily basis in one form or another. As for vibrancy, I have always made sure we traveled, and did special things, and each and every day I told him how much I loved and appreciated him and what an all around great guy I thought he was. I supported every new business venture, new idea he had and so on. I have never acted old, dressed old, looked old. To make him feel any more vibrant, I would have had to be a new person I guess. I can not help the fact that we had been married for 12 years. I can not help the fact that I'm 50 and he is 47. But I did my best to make sure we had fun and laughs and that he always felt loved and appreciated and gorgeous to tell the truth. For every 50 times I have told him how gorgeous he is, I've probably heard the same thing back twice. Maybe less. So, if anyone was in need of some appreciation, and some pep talks on how vital they were, it was ME. NOT him.
I am not saying I was/am a perfect wife. I am saying though that I take ZERO responsibility in his feeling old. None. This is HIS problem not mine. And I as I have told him a few times in the last year, in his quest for eternal youth, he is the one who made ME feel old, ugly and anything but vibrant.
And yet, I have not looked for validation from anyone else. And that is a choice, period. Based on your theory, it would make perfect sense if sometime in the last three years at least, I decided to have my own little emotional affair. Or maybe just took my feelings out on him. I did not. I am not a saint, I have lots and lots of flaws but I took the high road and that was intentional.
So that is my point of view on what you said and so I sincerely hope you don't believe that all these people who have had PA's or EA's or are just dangling their feet above the danger zone of infidelity are doing so because their spouse didn't do their job. It is simply not true in every case.
In the cases that are that way, as I said, the MLCer does a stellar job at making the LBS feel the very thing you described....so where does that leave us?
The good news is, unlike my MLCer, I am NOT going to let him or anyone make me feel old and dried up. I am not old nor dried up and anyone who thinks that way can take a short walk off a long pier. Because when I did feel that thanks to my spouse, I realized it was only because I gave him the power over me that he didnt' deserve. That won't happen again.
Back to the question at hand, I am still digging to see what people think...character flaw or fog of MLC battle on bad behavior?
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"Back to the question at hand, I am still digging to see what people think...character flaw or fog of MLC battle on bad behavior?"
My vote is fog of MLC battle. My reasoning is that my ex-wife's behavior in alignment with her core values changed drastically and suddenly with MLC.
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I'm with DGU on this. I cannot believe that my W's core values were thrown out the window in such a dramatic way. At times, I would swear she is pure evil. This is true when Monster is present as well as times when Monster does not seem to be present.
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My vote is fog of MLC battle. My reasoning is that my ex-wife's behavior in alignment with her core values changed drastically and suddenly with MLC.
I agree with this statement as well. My ex H showed such extreme "opposite" behavior from what I know of his core values. He has also stated that he truly doesn't understand "why" he did all that he has done.
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I think it is fog too. I've spoken to my spouse about this and how he was so opposite prior to MLC and really, I can't believe that he was an imposter for all those good years. I think there may have been elements of selfishness that I had ignored and as RCR and HB and others have said, the rose colored glasses come off the LBS and that is true but I don't believe the elements of the "bad" were to the severity that I saw during his MLC.
Thundarr, I just want to say if you don't mind, that I'm not sure going along with the teenage things will help and this is based on my own experience. H wanted to go out more, so we did. Then it became apparent that he actually did not want to go out with ME. I tried doing new things, going new places, I even arranged a trip to Europe where he had never been. This was a BIG deal. Do you know what he said when we were there and I asked if he was excited to be in London? He said "I never really wanted to come here".
This is a man who loves to travel and explore so it wasn't as if this was something he wouldn't like to begin with.
And yet, if a co-worker asked him to go out for drinks, you would think he hit the lottery, he was so excited. So you see, this is something she needs to work out on her own. My advice, for what it's worth and there would be some who would disagree, is to maintain who you are. If there are things you could do together that would be fun, go for it. But if it means being a teenager again, I think it is wise to stay the mature one in all this. My H wanted to go out and get drunk pure and simple. He would never phrase it that way but that's what he wanted to do. I didn't and don't want to do that so while I went out for a few drinks, I called it a night when I wanted to. And really, it didn't matter because he wantd to be with other people, not me, anyway. It's just another thing you have to ride out.
That's just my experience...not a hard and fast rule. Hang in there.
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My W and I were going out at least twice a week for most of the year, and having margaritas even more times a week than that. I started to worry when she began to want to do less with the kids and more with just she and I. We were like teenage lovers again and were living for the moment, or so I thought. She jumped on the first train out of Thundarr-ville and has been barreling forth ever since. Now she blows her check soon after getting it by going out with work friends or her lawyer friend and his W. I worry about how much she's drinking, but she swears she goes weeks at a time without a margarita. I don't believe her.
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I can't believe that he was an imposter for all those good years. I think there may have been elements of selfishness that I had ignored and as RCR and HB and others have said, the rose colored glasses come off the LBS and that is true but I don't believe the elements of the "bad" were to the severity that I saw during his MLC.
I agree with this statement. I probably did have my H somewhat on a pedestal and looking back, particularly in the years leading up to the MLC, I can see shades of selfishness, etc. but the man I knew is NOTHING like the MLC man and I don't think he could possibly lie or fake it for that many years, no matter what he said - he did tell me this "new" him was the real him.
Like the others, I have seen his cores values change so much. Let's hope they return to what they were before.
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Truer words Miss Trusting, truer words. Hope.
I've heard the same thing..the "real" him. Baloney.
Thundarr, I heard similar..."I only had two beers". Lies.
Let her do her thing....don't become a part of it, difficult as that is when you care and love so much I realize.
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My H is one of those that has been in Monster mode quite a bit since he left me in April. Today he helped me when I was out of money at the gas station and it was like my old H showed up like the knight in shining armour...that he USED to be. The whole thing made me incredibly sad and left me longing for the man/husband I have lost. The knowledge that my H has cheated on me-twice with the same woman-has been the one of the most painful betrayals of all. The man I met and fell in love with 32 years ago, the man that wrote me a stack of love letters that measure 8 inches high when stacked by single sheet and who swore to me ever since we first met that he would NEVER EVER cheat on me, is NOT this man that I am dealing with now! In many ways the man I am dealing with now is an enemy. I hate to say that about him, but he does NOT have my welfare or best interests at heart. I sometimes wonder if he would even bother to shed a tear if I died today.
I have a couple of friends who have dealt with mental illness with their ex husbands and both think my H is mentally ill from the things he says and does. They have never met my H nor do these women know each other but both have come to the same conclusion about my H. My therapist has met my H and since I started seeing her in January, she has told me on several occasions that it does not sound like my H is mentally well. Also, my very good friend who has known my H for 10 years is shocked by his behavior and thinks that he is not mentally all there either. As for my opinion on my H's mental state... I don't know because he often seems normal to me. He often seems like the man I have known for 32 years. But then, he goes off into Monster mode, rewrites our marriage, spends hundreds of dollars calling and texting his girlfriend while I don't have enough money for food, gas or utilities! But the worst is that my H barely spends any time with our autistic son when not that long ago they used to be as close as two peas in a pod! When I think of these things I start thinking that maybe everyone is right-my H is NOT well and very possibly mentally ill.
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Ladybird,
I'm sorry. You're dealing with a very tough situation right now and I know that when you see snippets of the person he was, it makes it that much tougher to detach.
Hang in there and be good to yourself, ok?
Hugs,
Bon
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I do feel that it true they treat us that way to make us hate them. They want us to be the one to push them off that cliff, because they can't do it themselves.
My only worry is that the effect on my daughter. I told H that I want him to treat me wth respect no matter how he feels and what our situation is, because we did not want D12 to think that it is OK for men to disrespect women, and have low expectations for the men in her life. I have a friend who always falls for the wrong men because of this. It gets to be a self esteem problem for the child growing up this way.
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Ladybird,
I'm sorry. You're dealing with a very tough situation right now and I know that when you see snippets of the person he was, it makes it that much tougher to detach.
Hang in there and be good to yourself, ok?
Hugs,
Bon
Thanks so much BonBon! I appreciate your encouragement so much! :)
I think I am having a really hard time with this because I met my H when I was 19. He has been in my life for 32 years-actually it will be 32 years in December. Today as he left to go back to work, my H turned into Monster and reminded me again that he is NOT coming back to me. He likes to remind me of this and also likes to say: "I didn't leave you to come back to you". It all hurts so much and is confusing because we have broken up several times throughout our history together but always got back together. I should say he has broken up with me several times, I only broke up with him once which was after my mother died. Right now I feel so lost because I'm not sure if I should stand and wait for him or just file the papers myself and get it over with so I can stop hurting. Maybe being divorced is what I need to do to move on, I don't know. A few days ago a friend suggested that I take my H's name and write it on a piece of paper and put it in a God box and turn the whole situation over to my Higher Power. So I found a pretty antique tole painted box that I had tucked away, wrote my H's name on a piece a paper and put the paper in the box. Letting go is the hardest part for me...
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I am wondering if there is a MLC spectrum. Affaircare - as you were able to 'see' your H relatively quickly (by MLC land standards), I'm wondering if there is a spectrum on which everyone sits?
My MLC H, as with so many who display such monstrous behaviours, might possibly be further along the spectrum??
Deeper in the fog? Deeper in depression?
Depression is a mental illness.
I too cannot believe this is my H just choosing to behave badly. His core values are the complete opposite of those of the man that I knew for 23 years, that something huge is amiss.
Why the lack of conscience?
Some time ago I came across The Amen Clinics. Through brain imaging they believe they have discovered 7 different types of anxiety and depression.
They do not specifically mention MLC, but as it is 'the mother of all depressions' I would be most intrigued if all of our spouses would agree to have their brains scanned. Think it would be most fascinating to see the similarities, which might help explain the cookie cutter behaviours. I bet they would all show similar changes in brain function with big changes in the pre-frontal cortex.
My SIL is a MD and she has also recently read that scanning has shown the blood flow to be markedly reduced to the prefrontal cortex in depression.
Lets not forget that teenage boys in particular do not fully develop the use of their prefrontal cortex until around 25yrs. The reason that they may not think of consequences of their actions etc - Hmmm, who does this remind me of???
Here's a couple of links re Daniel Amens work and the clinics:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-amen-md/why-men-cheat_b_872564.html
http://www.amenclinics.com/clinics/getting-started/
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Kikki
That was very interesting! it does make you think now doesnt it?? hmmm
Thanks for sharing..
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Just a quick response to a quote from Aff:
Our aim is to not feel old, ugly and dried up. Ideally we wish our SPOUSE made us feel young, beautiful and vibrant--but if they do not and someone else does...that feels good.
I agree, it is not yours/my aim to feel this which is why I guess it gets projected elsewhere. What I mean Aff, is I don't want to feel old or rejected either! But if I look externally to get my need met via someone/somewhere else, I'll search forever. It's like an undernourished child, who's never quite full. It is sad really.
The only one who can ever, ever meet our needs is our self.
Sil x
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Syn - I find this stuff really interesting too.
Just started a new thread with the info on
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Kikki is on to something. Keep on keeping on, lady!!
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Ha - thanks for the encouragement Thundarr!!
It's good to find a receptive bunch - my kids and friends are completely 'over' listening to my fascination with all of this ;D
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Based on what you have written, I have a couple of questions for you.
While I understand you feel about that quote, it does not appear you experienced the Monster behavior that so many on this forum have experienced from their MLCers. Monster behavior can be mean and cruel. I experienced it from my spouse, as have many on this forum. What are your thoughts about Monster in relation to the quote?
Well the very first thing I would like to establish is that "monster" is a convenient label for the way an MLCer is behaving, and is not "who they are." This is why I prefer to joke a bit and say they're closer to Star Trek's "Evil Twin" because it looks like them and sounds like them...but they have a goatee! An actual monster would act in a way that is harmful, hurting people purposefully and intentionally; whereas an MLCer frequently *does* hurt those they love, but moreso out of desire to avoid their own hurt than desire to "hurt others." In other orders, I don't think MLCers sit down and think, "Hmmm...now they hurt me for 3 years so what can I do to hurt them and tear their heart out?" I suspect it's much more like this: "I have hurt for 3 years now and so I am going to do what I know is wrong to feel good." (Nothing personal to the LBSs but thinking of you probably isn't part of it at all--it's like unconsidered collateral damage.)
Now regarding the way that MLCers behave, I have been in both positions in my lifetime. In my first marriage, my exH was diagnosed with mental illness but would seek no treatment. As part of his mental illness he did have affairs yet being the rather faithful type that I am, I didn't realize some were emotional affairs until later. I know of one physical affair he had around the time our daughter was born, and another that ended our marriage and destroyed our business...and during the final affair, he did behave in a way that I would call Monster (i.e., blaming me for his choices, screaming, hateful, etc.). At the time it was occuring I thought of him more like an addict acting from addiction...kind of. I do think that MLCers want to blame their own choices and issues on someone else--after all it couldn't POSSIBLY be them! LOL! So regarding the quote one I think is important to remember is that on the LBS side, there is an enormous desire to *understand* this betrayal because if you understand what in the world happened...maybe you can do XYZ to avoid it and protect yourself from being hurt like that again. It's akin to when a rape-victim says she was raped because she was dressing suggestively or in a bad part of town at night. No she wasn't. She could have been in sweats or in "a good part of town" and still been raped--but part of her wants VERY BADLY to understand it and then say "In order to avoid being raped, I can dress in baggy clothes and move to the suburbs" so this kind of hurt won't happen again. That's a very natural response. In a very similar way--sort of a natural response--when MLCers want to stop hurting they do things that in fact are very hurtful and in an effort to justifying continuing to do what they know is wrong, they assign the "BadGuy" role to the LBS and then pick fights so they can say "See? You really ARE the BadGuy and the cause of all this...not me." LBS want to understand and avoid this from happening again--MLC wants to shift responsibility for their own choices to someone else. Both are commonplace, almost instinctive responses....
[As for ME not experiencing Monster behavior, you would have to check with my Dear Hubby on that. From what I can tell and what he has told me, he felt completely cut out of my life and that was very hurtful to him but I did not do those kinds of vicious, poking until he exploded kinds of behaviors. Still, I'll be honest--I would look to him for the answer to that one!]
Also, much of what you wrote seems to be around aging, or the feeling of aging, which we have read is a symptom of MLC. What do you think about the root cause of MLC versus the symptoms?
From the articles:
•Preoccupation or fear of aging or death
•Vanity: Obsession with appearance
•Dissatisfaction with previous goals
•Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped
•Impulsive or Compulsive Behaviour
•Irritability
•Restlessness
•Substance abuse
The above list is comprised of symptoms, not causes. Aging does not cause midlife crisis--it is inevitable; midlife crisis is not.
You know, I agree with you--that is a list of the symptoms of MLC and/or how the MLCer usually acts, but it is NOT the root of MLC. I have to be honest and tell you that I really gave some thought to this question and whether to tell you what I really think. I could throw out fancy, descriptive psychological terms but instead I've decided to tell you what I really think is the real root of MLC--it's sin. As human beings, we are not perfect, we do think of ourselves and are not able to give unconditionally forever...and eventually some bit of sinful way of behaving bares it's ugly head and an internal, personal crisis is started.
I personally believe that when people marry these days in the USA and "civilized western nations" that they marry for lust or "to play house" most of the time--so they have no real idea what they are promising or how to be married. Thus I would estimate that the large majority marry for reasons like "S/He completes me" or "I'll have my needs met" or "They make me feel good/smooshy/sexy" etc. Note that the focus is mostly on them and their own needs, not necessarily thinking of their spouse or the fact that as a married person the call is to meet YOUR SPOUSE'S needs (no real acknowlegement that they will be responsible to another person)! I would also estimate that many/most of the marriages today do not look over the vows and realize it is a promise you are making to the other person to know yourself well enough that you will protect them from your own bad habits and weaknesses! Or that you are promising 100% of your affection and loyalty to them and only them for the rest of your life. Or that you are promising to work at maintaining that loving feeling!! Nope most marry thinking it will all just come naturally and/or that it doesn't really require work or anything on their part; whereas in real life, marriage means that you volunteer to look at YOURSELF and grow as a person and help THEM too...not try to change your spouse! Anyway, so with a marriage that starts off focused on them, is it any wonder then that about ten years down the road there are kids and bills and fights ... and it's not feeling so "good" anymore? So what happens? We've all been raised that being faithful is the right thing, but along comes Other Person who makes them feel "good" again and if the focus was on their needs (in their point of view) in the marriage, then why would they NOT keep the focus ON THEM and on feeling good?
So in the end, a person hits mid-life. Aging occurs and it does not necessarily need to lead to MLC...and I'm not saying that I think those who do not have an MLC are saints or perfect...but in the instances when it does lead to MLC I believe the catalyst is sin. Here's why I think that. Everyone thinks of "what's good for them" pretty naturally, so think of your own good is not in-and-of-itself bad, but when you age and think of all the things you MISSED or COULD HAVE HAD or were "cheated out of"...when you face your loss by putting responsibility on someone else rather than taking your own personal responsibility...when you do what you know is wrong (DEEPLY wrong) and continue to do it inspite of knowing it...it begins to sear your soul and allow you to continue to sin. Choosing to think of what you missed could just as easily be changed to choosing to think of what blessing you had--so all of it...ALL of it...is a choice, and usually the MLCer has to realize that to really turn things around they have to face themselves and change themselves (their choices, their thinking, etc.)!!! Many MLCers may not be too mature. Many may not have good coping skills. Many are self-centered and don't realize what a marriage commitment *is*. But in the end, at some point the MLCers head does recognize that the flirting and teasing is WRONG and rather than stopping, controlling themselves, and doing the right thing--they choose to do what they know is wrong. The effects of continuing to choose to do what you know is wrong is that the person does gradually transform into a new person with more "monster-esque" qualities. From what I can see, a person can survive MLC if they make the choice to stop doing what they know is wrong, start doing what they know is right, learn some better coping techniques, face and address themselves honestly, and change the way THEY think. The best way I know of to have that kind of 180 degree change is by the power of God. Without God I think people can make some changes but a deep, inner change of the person needs a divine intervention. Until the MLCer realizes that the things they are "searching for" or missed etc. are not given to them by "other people" they will continue to do anything...anything...to esccape themselves and escape responsibility for their own choices.
In the end I believe the most successful recovery is twofold--both the LBS and the MLC need to stop pointing fingers at the other guy, look at themselves, admit what they did wrong, and with God's power, change. If one or the other does not stop pointing fingers or won't admit that they were wrong, then any "recovery" is less successful. Without God I believe people do try to change but it's by sheer willpower and I personally believe it's much more difficult, less successful, and possibly more superficial. So in summary, I believe a person comes to a fork in the road in mid-life and they can choose to either do the right thing and go home and build their marriage--or they can chooes to do the "easy" thing and have their ego stroked even though they know it's wrong! So if you narrow it down, sin is the catalyst to MLC.
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Affaircare,
I truly enjoy reading your posts....
I find your perspective enlightening and very encouraging. Please continue to post and share with us your ideas and experience.
That said....I have a concern regarding your latest comment. Is an Agnostic or Aetheist less likely to recover from MLC - if they have no faith in God in which to support and guide him or her? Because the non-believer does not have "God's power" - is he or she left to struggle alone and, hopefully, recover due to their own will power and strength (virtues that the MLCer severly lacks).
This concerns me.
Thank you for all you do.
Limitless
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Thank you for your responses Affaircare.
From Affaircare
"Well the very first thing I would like to establish is that "monster" is a convenient label for the way an MLCer is behaving, and is not "who they are.""
I agree. Here are bits from a couple of RCR's articles....one from the Monster article and one from Self and Your Spouse article.
Though Monster is a symptomatic personality of Midlife Crisis, it is not the MLCer
You did not marry the MLC Monster; you would not have married the MLC Monster.
From Affaircare
"there is an enormous desire to *understand* this betrayal because if you understand what in the world happened...maybe you can do XYZ to avoid it and protect yourself from being hurt like that again."
This is true. I think one of the key things the LBS has to learn is that MLC is unavoidable.
From Midlife Crisis Takes Time
Regardless of what is healthiest, of what is best, of what you or anyone wants--MLCer included--a Midlife Crisis cannot be prevented. It can be prolonged by an unaccepting LBS. Acceptance can ease it. But once it has begun, the crisis must continue to completion; it is a journey to go through, not get over.
From Affaircare
"when MLCers want to stop hurting they do things that in fact are very hurtful and in an effort to justifying continuing to do what they know is wrong, they assign the "BadGuy" role to the LBS and then pick fights so they can say "See? You really ARE the BadGuy and the cause of all this...not me.""
Agreed.....the MLCer will Project to an external source......which almost always includes the spouse.
From Affaircare
"I really think is the real root of MLC--it's sin."
I agree with this, and I am of the Christian faith, but I like to put more definition to it. Both the LBS and MLCer are sinful. So I asked myself why does one have an MLC and the other one not.
From Affaircare
"Many MLCers may not be too mature. Many may not have good coping skills."
I agree with both of these......and I believe these to be linked to the root cause of MLC. I believe it is an emotional development process.
Thank you again for your input.
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Hi Aff,
I wonder if from reading your thread, the title might have been "is this bad treatment inevitable when someone sins?"
I know I've sinned and treated others badly in the past. Not something I'm proud of though.
Sil x
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Affaircare,
Thank you for posting this.
I agree with you
In the end I believe the most successful recovery is twofold--both the LBS and the MLC need to stop pointing fingers at the other guy, look at themselves, admit what they did wrong, and with God's power, change. If one or the other does not stop pointing fingers or won't admit that they were wrong, then any "recovery" is less successful. Without God I believe people do try to change but it's by sheer willpower and I personally believe it's much more difficult, less successful, and possibly more superficial. So in summary, I believe a person comes to a fork in the road in mid-life and they can choose to either do the right thing and go home and build their marriage--or they can chooes to do the "easy" thing and have their ego stroked even though they know it's wrong! So if you narrow it down, sin is the catalyst to MLC.
This reminds me a lot of what Bob Steinkamp says in his Quick Start Guide to Standing:
11. No matter what professional-sounding tag has been attached to your wayward spouse, the bottom line is that every husband or wife who has ever walked out on a marriage have all done so because of sin. Your beloved might have a sex, substance or selfishness problem. They might have been diagnosed, often by a professional who has never met them, with a chemical imbalance, bipolar disorder, or mid-life issues. Regardless, they still have a sin problem. Marriages are healed when spouses stop making excuses with man’s terms and start dealing with their mate’s sin problem in the prayer closet. (Does it strike you as strange that someone can attempt to diagnose your spouse without ever meeting them?)
[/i]
I know this may sound 'strange' to some on here, but I believe this.
Thanks again.
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Frankly, this pisses me off. I agree with Affaircare on everything she says and it really just pisses me off to think that this is based in sin rather than some type of mental illness. I am a Catholic and just hate that my W has betrayed our family due to worldly temptations. If she were "sick" as we like to think, I could handle that and would have no problem forgiving her. Knowing this really is based on lust, greed, envy and probably other Deadly Sins just irks me to no end.
DGU, from what I gathered Affaircare is saying this CAN be prevented by the MLCer CHOOSING to look to their morals and values rather than following the temptations of sin. If the person stops themself before it gets to be too easy to continue sinning, then the marriage can be saved and the partner will turn back to the spouse like they should. Again, this pisses me off to no end that my W did not.
All in all, I'm just pissed off about the whole sitch tonight. Maybe this is part of the grieving process, but right now I am pissed at my W. I didn't deserve this, and if this really is caused by a weakness of the spirit rather than of the body then I will be much less forgiving in the long run.
Hope this wasn't a hijack, Bon, but I just had to air out my feelings on this.
Thanks Affaircare for a very enlightening post, and to DGU as always for dissecting the important parts.
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Affaircare, DGU
WOW. Really hits the mark.
Thundarr, I agree, Sin should make us angry. But we all fail and fall short. It's God's grace that brings us out again but we need to choose to accept it. I think that's the tough part for me. My H and I have sinned throughout our whole marriage. We all do, but it's saying sorry and working on improving those things that makes a difference. Choosing to repent and get back on track. What's the ough bit is, he is just continuing in this sin of choice by staying with OW and being so hateful to us. It feels never ending. It hurts us and I also grieve for him becuase he's turning his back on God and not realising or giving up this sinful life. Just listening to the enemy's lies.
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"Knowing this really is based on lust, greed, envy and probably other Deadly Sins just irks me to no end."
I think MLC has more to do specifically with issues of love, self-esteem, and emotional maturation. I am not in MLC, but I have the same struggles as others with the things quoted above.
"I gathered Affaircare is saying this CAN be prevented by the MLCer CHOOSING to look to their morals and values rather than following the temptations of sin."
From what I've read of Jim Conway, this is what would be described as the difference between MLT and MLC. With MLCers, it is about control of their emotions.......so the question is this.....do they GIVE UP power over their emotions, or do they LOSE power over their emotions?
Conway says no one would ask to go through MLC.
"if this really is caused by a weakness of the spirit rather than of the body"
What if the answer is yes to both of the above?
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MLC is a sin problem without a doubt! And though we LBSers feel the effects of our MLCers sin problem, God feels it and grieves over it far more than we do. The MLCer is being disobedient to God. The rebellion against God and his commands is very real. There is a verse in scripture that says that " there is no peace for the wicked." Abandoning your spouse, your children, your covenant vows, and your God is the epitome of wickedness.
God does not care what excuses or justifications a man or woman uses to betray his/her spouse. God calls it treachery. God calls it faithlessness. God joins us and makes us one flesh. "No man may separate what God has joined."
Bob and Charlyne Steinkemp have written many devotionals on the topic of this sin problem and remind us often of the fact that this is a spiritual battle. Our spouses have fallen into sin and have been taken captive by Satan to do his will. Satan's will is to kill, steal, and destroy us, our marriages, and our families. Our spouses have been blinded and deceived. They believe the lies of Satan instead of the truth of God's word and promises. That is why so many of us now see our spouse as a different person. Following Satan changes one's character, values, morals. My H has done and said things that the man I married never would have done if he was not following the prince of darkness.
God says that He hates divorce. I, too, hate divorce. To have a divorce forced upon you against every fiber of your being, against the moral code that we live by, and especially against God's Word that says it is violence and treachery against the wife (or husband) of your covenant should make it pretty clear that the MLCer is indeed battling a sin problem. A big time sin problem.
Thanks, AffairCare, for reminding all of us of the seriousness of this sin problem. And, I encourage everyone to go to the Rejoice Marriage Ministries site and read all of Bob and Charlyne's archived posts on how serious God is about a covenant vow.
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I have been told this by many, it is a sin that our spouses choose to engage in. They broke their vows to have an affair. They abandon
their families, are cruel, tell lies about the spouse and the list goes on and on. So I have been telling myself since Feb. that my H
is having a MLC, he can't help it ect.. In the back of my mind I always felt that he had control over this, he just chose to abandon me and our son for OW. He could have been strong and said no but he gave into his temptation and destroyed our family. It really ticks me off.
So here I am Standing, being kind to him and for what???? He abandoned me and our S in a 10 minute phone call. I never saw it coming. I was destraught that Friday night after the call and all these months I picture him and OW partying it up it up that night, H saying I'm free, the two of them having the time of their life while I sat here hysterical in total shock, couldn't think or eat for months.
He cut me and our S off from money for 3 months and has told many lies about me. Yet here I am, being kind to him, hoping he will one day come home. Why???? No one deserves to be treated this way. We were a really nice family and he choose to abandon us to be with a low life skank with a criminal record and who lost custody of her son among other things. He has spent alot of money taking her on trips, buying a Harley and God knows what else. He won't produce his bank statements. That is our marital money that he is spending on her! Yet this month he only gave me 1/2 of what I need. I have no money for food for his S! He chooses to spend OUR money on her over his own child.
Standing, Paving the way. Do I really want to do this anymore? Do I want to continue to put up with his behavior? I feel like me being nice to him is just saying to him that it's ok what you have done to me to our S. It is not! His behavior is dispicable. No one deserves to be treated this bad. He broke our vows. He broke my heart and more importantly his sons heart, yet I continue to be nice to him. Do I want to wait years for his relationship with OW to fall apart and then hope he comes back. I feel like a doormat. And if I let him come back, will he do it again, especially becaused I was so nice to him when he abandoned us before. I don't know.......I have alot of thinking to do. I am so confused now.
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NB,
All of the things that you have written - are things that go through LBS' minds on and off throughout the crisis. These are all good questions....Things that we all need to ponder.
The MLCer will do mean and cruel things. He/she will be accountable for these things...someday, sometime. Do not think they are having the times of their lives...cause they aren't. That being said, your H is spending the family's money on him and his skank. That isn't right. But, it is typical.
Your focus needs to be on your upcoming court date...and assuring that you and your Son will get the funds that you need to survive. Paving the way, hoping for a return....all those other things shouldn't be your concern. Yes. You can "pave the way" early in the crisis - but I'm not sure how much impact that will have on a man in full Replay - doing the things that he is doing.
I'm sorry that you are feeling so low. I certainly understand. It sucks. It really does.
Take care and keep posting.
L
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Super long thread here but on-topic. It's from a former MLCer on another site that gives both her testimony and her analysis of what causes MLC and what it is. I'll leave it to Affaircare and Beautiful Star to state whether this is consistent with their experiences or not, but I found it VERY telling. Also, she completely counters my earlier statement about sin being the driving force during her post. It is me she is replying to at the end. Incidentally, she gave her blessing to post this here and offered to answer any questions anyone has for her. Here is her testimony:
"I have been asked by a couple of you how long was the process. In hindsight it probably started a couple of years ago. I had put on weight, I didn't feel sexy anymore, I had lost my libido and after a while my partner had stopped asking me as well. During this time we were still very good friends, we did lots of things together and he was very supportive of me when I decided to return to university to get my nursing degree. At that time I was feeling like he was my friend rather than my lover but I was not overly concerned about it. We were still making plans for our future together. For some background, my son to another partner is 28 and has never known his father and refers to my partner as his 'old man' (we were together from when my son was in his early teens). My partner also has 2 children to a former wife. His relationship with his ex-wife is excellent (as is mine with her).
Once I had completed the first 3 years of my degree and I was able to register as a nurse I was expected (and wanted very much) to do what is called a graduate program where you work supported in a hospital and can try out different areas of speciality. I had trained in rural health and was interested in pursuing a graduate program working with our Indigenous population (we are in Australia and Indigenous people here have a life expectancy nearly 20 years less than their white counterparts which I find absolutely abhorrent). We discussed where I should apply for this graduate program. I was keen to move to our west coast for the year length program. I think I was so keen for us to go together that I chose to ignore his reluctance. He did agree in the end so I applied and was successful at obtaining my first preference. Even when the news came through I was a bit annoyed that he wasn't as happy for me as I had expected. As the time to move loomed closer I could no longer ignore his reluctance. I finally confronted him about it and he admitted that he didn't want to leave his two children from his previous marriage (a girl who was 16 and a boy of 13). It would also have been difficult for us to prepare our house to be rented as he works from home and it would have been impossible for him to move his tools and equipment. We eventually agreed that I would honour my commitment to the new job and that he would stay on the east coast to be near his children. I did feel quite a bit of resentment that he was not going to come with me after initially agreeing to it but I did respect his reasons why. He came with me to the other side of the country to help me settle in and we both cried heaps when he returned to the east coast after 3 weeks.
Initially I was quite settled in the west and got used to living on my own, being independent, eating what and when I wanted and generally having complete control of my life. This is where I think the very selfish part of the MLC reared its ugly head. I believe now that by being on my own and a long way from home I was ripe for the worst parts of the MLC to take hold. I hope this does not sound like I blame him for not coming. I did, but hindsight tells me that I was looking from a very narrow point of view.
Then 2 things happened at about the same time which nurtured the MLC demon to snatch me in its claws. One was that I found another program offered by my employer that would not only allow me to stay in the west but which would also fund my traveling between places (I would be offered the opportunity to work in 4 rural hospitals for 3 months each). There were some financial bonuses as part of this which also made it very attractive. He and I had often discussed moving around the country when we retired and I saw this as a chance to enjoy some of that now, even if it was going to be without him. I also was contacted by a man I had known on the east coast who was now working on the west coast and happened (through an injury he sustained) was working in the same remote town. I had felt a small attraction to this man over quite a few years but had never acted upon it (and never would have in 'normal' circumstances). This man loved working in the west and was happy to encourage me to spread my wings workwise and to remain in the west and to pursue what he touted as my dream. This was the affair I talked about in my post. My partner started to notice that I was making statements that he could not reconcile with the me he knew.
You all may find it hard to believe but I do have some morals so I ended my relationship with my partner and started on a relationship with this new man as I really didn't want to cheat on h a part of which is the inability to look at oneselfim. Absolute craziness when I look at it now but it seemed so sane and sensible to me at the time. It was disasterous from the start but that MLC demon now had a tight rein on my mind and I could not see how destructive it was. During this time I also managed to lose much of the weight I had gained. The new relationship only lasted for about 4 months and ended when he left me to work in another remote town a long way from where we had been. During this time I had been back to the east coast on 2 occasions. The first time was after 3 months in the new job when my relationship with my partner was still on track and once after I had dropped the bomb. He suspected that I had had a relationship with this new person but of course I denied it. My now ex-partner was not abusive, he was sad, he was still communicating with me and he never once attacked me even though he must have been dying inside. Not long after my parents came to visit. They didn't say anything to me at the time but apparently when they returned from their visit they felt they did not know me and wondered who this alien was walking around pretending to be me. My ex had given them some information about MLCs and they finally believed it.
My advice for what it's worth is to stand by your partner while the demon is in possession of their faculties. The demon reference may appear as a cop out to some but I can assure that it is not. I am an intelligent professional nurse who has been trained to reflect on their practice. I have an interest in mental health and I firmly believe that an MLC is a temporary form of mental illness which includes the inability to really see yourself.
I have been asked what the worse things were that I did as well as having the affair. The answer to that is that after my affair relationship broke up I advertised on a couple of internet sites for a replacement. I had a few more flings with various men, none of which were very satisfactory at all.
I was eventually accepted into the program that would see me continue to work in the west. Before I was to depart on the first leg my ex-partner decided to come and visit me at Christmas in part to help me not feel so alone at what would normally be a very family orientated time. During his stay he found some of my advertisements and the replies which of course hurt him even more. After all how could I advertise for a new man when the one I had left on the east coast still loved me? We did talk about the various relationships and during this time we slept together a few times which we both found beneficial but still I did not realise what I had lost. So even then he was still being a supportive and caring human being.
After he returned to the east coast I started a stupid relationship with a married man who cheated on me with someone other than his wife very early on. This also was not enough for me see how self destructive I had become. In my view I was achieving good things at work and I was ready to launch myself into my next career stage.
My first placement took me a remote town in a very beautiful part of the state. My ex and I talked a lot on the phone. I told him how much he would love the new town and how eager I was for him to visit. I spoke to my son about getting my 12 year old grandson to come for a visit and this eventually worked out but with an added bonus. My ex decided he could get away for the school holidays so we decided that he would fly up with both of the grandchildren. We were both very excited about the trip and I know he was hoping that it would be the catalyst for the much overdue and necessary lightning bolt.
Instead I was far too involved with the new long distance relationship I had developed with the married man, partially because now he had left his wife even though I had asked him not to and this made me a feel a little bit manipulated by him. In my defense I would like to add that even then I felt like I had been manipulated into this new relationship and that it was moving much too fast for my liking. The kids, my ex and I enjoyed the best holiday of our lives (even though I still had to do some shifts we did manage to see many of the sights I had told him he would love). My new relationship (and I deliberately don't refer to him as my partner here as that wasn't quite how I saw it), made sure that he contacted me everyday and that my ex could not possibly fail to see that I was involved with someone else. What I saw at this time was a product of my still delusional mind. I saw that my new relationship was going well and I really thought he loved me as he was so attentive. In reality he was very jealous and wanted to 'mark' his property. I am very ashamed to say that I neglected my ex during much of the time that he was staying with me and pretended to ignore the additional hurt I was causing him. Even during this time we slept together once (which goes to show where my subconcious mind was going).
At the end of the holiday I returned everyone to the airport and cried buckets of tears as they flew the thousands of miles back home. This is about the time that my ex decided I was probably never going to come to my senses.
I finished the second leg of my placement and I was expected to take 2 weeks leave before I started on the third. I decided to return to the east coast to see my family and it was coincidence that my new relationship was having time off at the same time so we decided to go together. The closer the trip became the more I didn't want to introduce him to my family and friends. The machines were all in motion and I didn't know how to tell him I didn't want him to come so I stupidly remained quiet.
My ex had agreed to pick me and the new man up from the airport. How unfair of me was it to ask this? Very!! but he did it anyway as he is the most supportive man I know. I had sent him a text before we disembarked from the aircraft to say that I still expected the massive hug that he always had ready for me even though the new man was in tow. I cried when I saw my ex as I always do when I fly back home. This time it was even more than usual but I didn't know why and I didn't question it. I probably should mention at this stage that when ever my ex and I stayed together we always slept in the same bed and I enjoyed snuggling up to him at night.I had even made it a prerequisite on my new relationship that he accept my friendship with my ex and explained that I would always love him.
As I mentioned it my earlier post the lightning bolt process occurred over about 2 weeks which started just before the new man and I were preparing to fly to the east coast.
My new man was adamant that I was not to sleep in the same bed as my ex (which was probably a fair request given the nature of our relationship but I don't like to be dictated to). My new man was going to the country for a couple of days and I was returning to my home to spend the time with me ex and my grand kids. This is where another revelational lightning bolt struck. Being there with the grandies, in my home which I still loved stirred my heart strings. All 4 of us had a great time and my mind was filled with happy memories. The weather also played a big part. It was winter but the weather was sunny, it was the warmest winter day the area had ever had and the surrounding bush looked spectacular. I saw my cats and they too were meaning more to me than ever. The final lightning bolt was having my ex tell me that he had met a lovely woman but that they were taking it slow. They'd been out quite a few times but still hadn't kissed. He told me how much he enjoyed her company. I was devastated. Regrets, self recriminations and an unbearable sense of loss enveloped me. When my new man arrived back from his few days away he must have thought I'd lost my mind as I was behaving a bit odd.
My new man was now heading off for a couple of days to sort some things out with his now ex-wife. I returned to my home (as had already been planned) extremely upset. Not upset about my new relationship but upset that I was losing the best thing that had ever happened to me. I stayed with my ex for 2 days after which I was due to fly out and meet up with the new man. I told my ex how I felt and he was stunned. He told me that even though he expected it to happen he hadn't expected such a sudden change of heart. I'm sure part of him was thinking that I was just jealous of him starting a new relationship and that I was looking to jeopardise it. This was not true but with my past record it must have seemed only a distinct possibility.
We spent the next 2 days together, me crying and him being very numb. I didn't know what the future held but I just knew how much my heart was breaking and that it was not looking likely that my ex would be taking me back. I was destroyed. I certainly didn't want to continue my trip or my relationship with my new man but my ex was asking for space so I reluctantly agreed to continue with my trip. This is the most regretful thing I have ever done in my life. I should have refused to leave my house but out of respect for my ex and appreciation for all the space he had given me over the past 14 months I boarded the plane. I cried my eyes out for the entire 5 hours of the 2 flights and stopover.
When my new man picked me up he was so excited to see me but I was cold. I still couldn't stop crying and I begged him to give me space to think. I was trying to sort out what was going on in my head and why I had had what seemed to be such a sudden change of heart. He did not give me that space and I eventually confessed that I had slept with my ex but gave no other information. When we had slept together my ex told me how right it felt and yet so wrong. I only saw how right it was. All I wanted at that stage was to move to my third location and be on my own. Unfortunately we had to spend the next 5 days in the car together as we had a very long road trip to make. Needless to say the trip was a disaster. I didn't get the space I needed and my new man was reacting in a way which only further proved to me that I was in the wrong place with the wrong man.
We persevered through the trip but we both knew it was over even before I confessed that I was still in love with my ex and I only had a very faint glimmer of a chance at getting him back. I was texting my ex continually and crying over the phone everyday. To his credit he didn't ever feel any satisfaction that I was hurting so much and he tried very hard to not hurt me even further. He just said he didn't know if we had a chance.
I moved to my third location and finally got to spend some time on my own. During my talks with my ex we discussed about him coming to visit me in 5 or 6 weeks time when his work schedule allowed it. This gave me another glimmer of hope that we could eventually find our way back to each other.
I was unaware that now he had started sleeping with the new interest in his life. According to him she knows very little about me other than that I live on the other side of the country and that I was hurting a lot. I had previously asked him that even though he was still dating this woman that he not take her to our home. He didn't agree but I thought he could see my point. When I first became truly aware that he was now sleeping with her, even after I had bared my soul to him I was gutted. When I also found out in the same conversation that she had slept in my bed and my house I was inconsolable. The glimmer of hope was fading by the minute. He said some pretty cruel things to me that day (some of which I probably deserved). I was unable to go to work, I cried for hours at a time and I felt myself slipping into a depression. I fought it all the way with thoughts of how much my past behaviour had upset him and of things I should have done but nothing helped. I felt betrayed, angry, hurt, disappointed and hopeless - all emotions that my ex had felt over the life of my MLC and I felt I deserved them all.
He is withdrawing from me further each day. He rarely returns my texts or my phone calls but is happy for me to ring him in the middle of the night to wake him up for work. He has admitted that she doesn't know that I do this. If I'm on an early shift I set my alarm just so I can help him get up each day. Often I cannot go back to sleep afterwards. I'm not eating much, I sleeping even less and the depression is getting deeper by the day.
A couple of days ago I told him how difficult it was knowing that she could just reach out a hand and touch him but that I was thousands of miles away and couldn't even see his face and how hard it was for me. I asked him if I could fly back to the east coast and spend a few days with him just so we could talk face-to-face. He agreed but asked why I wanted to do such a thing. I told him how much I wished he had done the same when I was going through my MLC even though I didn't know whether it would have helped or not. I also asked him where he wanted me to stay as I still wanted to give him space. He said he didn't know. I finally asked if I could stay in my home and that I would be happy to stay in the back bedroom just as long as I could talk to him face-to-face. I have booked my flights and I leave on Tuesday.
Today I havn't heard from him so I didn't give him the wake up reminder call assuming that he was staying with her and as much as I hate that he's with her I don't want to jeopordise their relationship. He is ignoring my calls and texts more today than ever and I am very afraid that I have lost him. I know his new relationship is in the rosy and everything is wonderful faze so I know I am facing an uphill battle. I am behaving in a desperate manner but cannot seem to stop myself even though I now it is causing him to pull away even more.
My MLC has cost me my man, my house, my animals and the life I knew. When I left he lost me but still had everything else. If I cannot return to my life I just don't know what I will do. I always promised him that I would never take the house away from him and I fully intend to honour that promise as much as I possibly can. I want to come home to the east coast, I want a new and improved relationship with my man and I just want things back to normal. I despair that he has moved on and cannot see that it is now him who is throwing our history away. Maybe it's his turn to have an MLC. If so I will support him as much as he supported me and weather through as best I can. I just cannot seem to make him understand that we are worth saving. It is now in his hands and I hope that the strength in him that allowed him to be that supportive man will surface again. I love him more today than I have ever partially because I understand the pain I caused him and how well he managed to rise above the loathing he must have felt at times.
Before I sign off I would just like to add that what we do when we are in our MLC is not a sin as some have suggested. We are in the dark and think we are walking in the light but as I have said previously we have absolutely no insight into ourselves, the hurt we are causing or the future.
I look forward to your responses and feel like I have an online support system and that is very important to me in this very difficult time. I'm taking things minute by minute at the moment just to survive.
Sue"
Again, I find her stance on this in line with what I CAN accept in my W without feeling bitterness and resentment as I have the past two days. Opinions, questions? Hope this isn't a hijack, Bon!!
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I posted this comment on your thread Thundarr, so thought I'd bring this across here to add my two cents worth .........
That was so sad. Such a large amount of devastation because of her choices. I guess that happens a lot. The LBS gives up when/if they meet someone else and despite what 'Sue' says, her turnaround seemed to be driven by the fact that she thought she was losing her husband.
We're all pretty much 'stabbing in the dark here', but I'm hedging my bets that the lack of morals and poor choices and self centredness are about lack of healthy brain function.
We know that the pre-frontal cortex functioning well allows us to see 'cause and effects', amongst other things.
What other parts of the brain would show low level functioning during a MLC?
Thundarr - think you mentioned the Amygdala ??- a primitive part of the brain - as being a possible contender for being affected during this time. Could explain the base level, animalistic responses that so many of us observe in our MLCers - and maybe even the R with the OW/OM which seems to be on a very superficial level.
I still wonder - what is the conscience? I'm sure this is something that is multi faceted and includes spiritual aspects.
As we are unable to make healthy decisions and experience stable and balanced emotions if we have unhealthy brains - my bet is that our consciences can't begin to operate to their highest potential when they can't even operate at the most basic physical level.
In the same way that an ac unit cannot operate if the basic mechanics are not functioning - I think the basic mechanics are not working in our MLCers brains either.
This of course is caused by many many different reasons - a large implosion all coming together at mid life (as written by RCR). These reasons do not collectively create a medical condition in themselves, but I believe the deep dark depression that results from all of this, is an illness.
We know depression changes brain function - this has been proven. Without healthy brains we cannot have healthy emotions and ways of functioning in the world. As Letting Go also commented - add to that the effects or cortisol from the stress that they are suffering and the substances that so many of them are suddenly abusing - it's not going to be a pretty mix. Would still love to see somewhere like the Amen Clinics do a whole series of spect scans on our MLCers to see the similarities. Perhaps then, it could begin to be recognised as some sort of syndrome? Until then, we're pretty much on our own.
Do we cast a pointed finger at people who develop other medical conditions? If someone develops, for instance, parkinsons disease, and over time, their ability to function physically degenerates - do we claim that that outcome is sinful?
Someone with a brain that doesn't function well - will also show symptoms. What is so hard to stomach here, is that so little is known about it. Society doesn't support families any more in general, and not enough research is being done.
Unfortunately, the outcome is often adultery, amongst other very poor choices that are being made by the MLCer.
My H is not well - I know this for a fact .......... Yes he is making some appalling choices ........ would he normally make these choices? Heck no!
Is it easy for me to stomach the outcome of this - his abandonment and adultery amongst other things? Not at all - but I am more compassionate as I can't reconcile this person with the man I loved for 23 years. I know he will be horrified one day - this is all too weird.
It's not all that long ago that we used to keep people that functioned 'differently' locked away. Brains that function differently from the norm, and the behaviours that came from that, have always challenged us and made us uncomfortable.
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Hi Thundarr,
Well she has experienced it first hand, so I think her reflections (whilst subjective) are valid. She also sounds as though she is still in the fog tbh. Her H waited and waited and then gave up but she seems to still be in denial about that to an extent. She broke the R - he moved on (he can't be responsible for breaking something that she had already broken!) And now that he is in a R she does seem to be looking to blame EVEN this on him - it is that sort of mindset - the pseudo-self awareness that suggests she is only just emerging from the tunnel. That and the fact that she will not leave her H alone now when it is her own fault that he believed she was gone and he moved on - if she really did not want to jeopardise that new R, she would back off - she left him and he waited and was kind and caring and considerate when frankly she did not deserve it. Maybe he is having his own MLC or maybe he did what all standers must eventually do and that is make a choice to stand FOREVER even if that means forever alone, or just say "I gave it my all for as as long as I could, but now I need to be with someone who is offering me a normal life and relationship without all this confusion and pain and hurt".
Anyway, I do think saying it is "sin" is over simplifying human psychology tbh. Also, maybe it is only religious MLCers who reconcile, but I know of cases where that is simply not the case. I think that when people claim that they are making the mistake that many religious people from a lot of religious persuasions make which is to think that a concept of morality ONLY exists in the minds of believers. I for one have a very deep sense of morality, based on the inherent dignity of human life and on the idea that people can only function in communities and societies if we all share the basic principle of striving to love each other and, at the very least, do no harm to our fellow man. My H also shared these principles before embarking on his MLC, and I believe that one of the struggles all MLCer share (when we see their depression) is that they are wrestling against their own sense of morality - they KNOW they are doing the wrong thing and yet keep doing it. They get into a confused moral space where they equate feeling "happiness" with doing the right thing (i.e. of the affair: if this was so wrong, why does it feel so good? of the marriage: if this was so right, why does it feel so bad?) when the truth is doing the right thing is rarely based on our personal feelings of gratification, doing the right thing is based on our feelings of good that come from looking after those around us - and once we have the well-being that comes from that, then we have actually come closer to finding happiness. Ironically, truly looking after others is something that can only be achieved when we have looked after ourselves properly (i.e. not had someone else fill that role, but instead have looked after ourselves autonomously and truly gotten to know ourselves and accept ourselves).
Finally, that is why I believe that providing we work on ourselves and look after ourselves, our situations may appear worse to others (at first), but in time, we are the ones that develop true contentment because we learn to look after ourselves, we become better at looking after others due to that (btw, looking after, does not mean FIXING, which is a big lesson for LBS's), and we eventually move on to better lives, with or without or MLC partner. ANd if it is with, they have some serious catching up to do if they ever exit the fog and want to be back with us)
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Great replies from everyone, both here and on my thread!
S & D, I also questioned whether she was completely out or was experiencing withdrawal or depression. She seems to see what she has lost and that her actions are the cause of her dilemma. On the other hand, she seems to harbor SOME sense of entitlement that she can still stay at the house even though H and the new woman are both there. I found it interesting that she still slept in the same bed with her H, and was even intimate with him regardless of her seeing someone else. She even seemed a bit surprised that her current lover at one time objected to her sleeping in the same bed as her H!!! I don't know many who would ok their W's to sleep in the same bed with ANYONE of the opposite sex, but she not only seemed to expect it then but doesn't really seem to find it crazy now either.
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S&D, As a 'religious' person I find this statement interesting
Anyway, I do think saying it is "sin" is over simplifying human psychology tbh. Also, maybe it is only religious MLCers who reconcile, but I know of cases where that is simply not the case. I think that when people claim that they are making the mistake that many religious people from a lot of religious persuasions make which is to think that a concept of morality ONLY exists in the minds of believers.
There is a verse in the Bible (in Ecclesiastes, I think) that affirms that sun rises and the sun sets on all...
I believe that my Lord can restore my marriage, in the same way as I (we - h & I) believed He could save my son from a congenital heart defect when he was born and later from cancer.
I, too, struggled with the idea that it was not fair that my son was 'restored' to full health and others were not, was it because of my faith? Why was my faith more 'effective' than others? This laid heavily on my heart for a long while...
Today, while I was in church, at the altar, I was again, pondering these questions and I had a thought come to me - God is in control, whether we like it, desire it or NOT. He will do whatever He wants. We are the ones who need to align ourselves with His will - The MLCer is fighting this very thing - he/she is trying to do whatever it is they want :P
I know I am being 'fatalistic' here, but I genuinely believe that God's will cannot be thwarted, so the quicker we submit to Him, the sooner we rest - my personal problem is that I am like a dog with a bone and I find it difficult to let go.
The same way as my son went through his health problems and followed all the protocols, and although the way was fraught with real risks, he came through - miraculously, in the words of the doctors - God provided.
I also have faith that in accepting the process (DGU :)), we will come through, God will provide, once again.
I do not believe that only religious MLCers reconcile
because one of the things that they openly reject is their relationship with God - my husband is a poster for this! So they are NOT religious at all.
He does not see what he is doing as a sin (concept long gone from his mind)...
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Hey Mitz,
I have always felt that a key part of my W choosing to come back will have to do with her regaining her faith. We were both raised strict Catholic and have brought our kids up that way, but she strayed from that path and openly disavowed and even mocked God and our religion. I think once that starts to come back, her vows will again mean something to her and she will retun to where God wants her to be.
I hope and pray this is correct.
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Thundarr
I have always felt that a key part of my W choosing to come back will have to do with her regaining her faith. We were both raised strict Catholic and have brought our kids up that way, but she strayed from that path and openly disavowed and even mocked God and our religion. I think once that starts to come back, her vows will again mean something to her and she will retun to where God wants her to be.
I hope and pray this is correct.
Amen bro!!!
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... That said....I have a concern regarding your latest comment. Is an Agnostic or Aetheist less likely to recover from MLC - if they have no faith in God in which to support and guide him or her? Because the non-believer does not have "God's power" - is he or she left to struggle alone and, hopefully, recover due to their own will power and strength (virtues that the MLCer severly lacks).
This concerns me.
Not to steal this thread from the OP (original poster) but I hope it's kind of still "on topic"--namely is this bad treatment inevitable? You specifically ask if an agnostic or an atheist is less likely to recover from MLC--because they have to recover due to their own willpower and strength (which are character qualities that many/most MLCers lack). It seems pretty reasonable that this would concern you!
First, I want to tell you what I think "atheist" and "agnostic" mean just to be sure we're on the same page. "Atheist" would be someone who says there is no god (in very broad terms) and an "agnostic" is someone would says "Who knows? There is no way we can tell if there is or is not a god because that's unknowable." Is this close-ish to what you mean too?
Second, if that is close-ish to what you mean, then here's my thought. One way or another the CRISIS of midlife crisis gets resolved. Either the MLCer changes and learns some new coping techniques--or they refuse to change and keep using the old coping techniques. If they change...sometimes they can come back to the marriage and rebuild something new...and sometimes they change and decide to NOT return to the marriage because their partner won't change. If they do NOT change (decide to continue in denial for example)...sometimes they choose to come back to the marriage and just put up with it for the kids and find what joy they can in life...and sometimes they build a whole new life that fits with their denial and decide to NOT return to the marriage. Either way it does resolve the crisis--just maybe not the way we want it resolved. I think the ideal we hope for is that the MLCer would grow, would change and stop their dysfunction, and would then choose to rebuild and do the right thing--right? This usually requires that not only the MLCer but also the LBS change! Thus with all this change going on, you can see where having some tools to make the changes would increase the likelihood of success.
The difference for an atheist or an agnostic in comparison to a Christian would be that I believe God offers a tool to the Christian--namely His power to change and be a new creation, doing "the right thing"--and an atheist or agnostic would not have that tool. Does that mean that they never recover or never reconcile? No--obviously I know of atheists and agnostics who DO change and admit they were doing wrong and recover their marriage. But it's like a person who is working without tools! Sure they can cut the wood and drive the nail somehow...gradually....but it's a lot harder, more of a struggle, possibly longer and more painful. Having that saw or hammer gives the person better ability to do the work.
So does that make sense? And while we're at it, when I say the word "Christian" I don't mean a person who is "not Jewish" or "not Muslim" or "not Buddhist"--I mean a person whom God has chosen to revive from their life in sin and saved them. Those folks may or may not "attend a certain church building" and would not be hypocrites because they are changing from the inside.
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I guess my curiosity is whether they all have an underlying character flaw...perhaps selfishness, immaturity, narcissism, entitlement? I'm not sure. I know narcissim has been discussed here before...I just thought I'd throw this out and see what people think.
I think that you are confusing character with behavior. Character flaws, as I see them, are within the depths of a person. Someone who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder has been that way--you would have noticed unless you were in severe denial.
Is immaturity a characer flaw or relative?
One of the things most people use to determine MLC or not is the degree of personality and/or behavioral changes.
If your MLCer is like your pre-MLC spouse in personality and behavior, what makes you think this is MLC? And if those horrible behaviors were previously present, maybe it is flaws in character--if it is even fair to determine that.
But I think omst of what we think of as character flaws are flaws in behavior and perception.
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As we are doing the 'quote' thing:
The difference for an atheist or an agnostic in comparison to a Christian would be that I believe God offers a tool to the Christian--namely His power to change and be a new creation, doing "the right thing"--and an atheist or agnostic would not have that tool.
Hope I'm reading the above quote right, but I feel I hold my own 'hammer' and 'wood' and the responsbility lies with me as to how I 'build' with it. I know I cannot guarantee my h will build his part.
However, at the moment I do not believe bad treatment is inevitable with an MLCer. Not saying it's good treatment either. ;)
If I believe it is bad treatment, then it will be and can never be anything else and therefore it will be inevitable. If that follows...
One thing I do feel - it's personal. For eg, the postman doesn't get treated the same as me. :D
Those who are single do experience MLC (from what I've read) but we are all talking about those in R and in MLC. The factors are different. The whole scenario brings up a host of other issues such as childhood, previous R's in life; for me, I've been doing a lot of thinking about gender issues and the difference of how my h (and many others' h's I've read on here) exp MLC and how women (speaking for myself here) exp it. For me, the greatest emotional fear is loss - not just of R but in life.
Life is not as static as it appeared to be when I was younger. The true grieving is for my past years and coming to a point where I can accept where I am. That's inevitable! (Sorry, realised I went a bit Jungian!!!)
Sil x
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Thundarr,
No need to apologize for the hijack. You didn't..the conversation is just bobbing and weaving and that's a good thing.
I am a person of faith, my H is an agnostic. I don't believe this is a demonic influence but I can't say for sure and I certainly am interested in reading what others think. I DO believe that God is helping me and I have asked God to help my H as well and I believe He will. I think He has actually.
I believe that MLC is more cultural than religious. I think our society plays a heavy role in people seeking instant gratification and never allowing for boredom or routine. Also, I blame society for putting such an emphasis on beauty and youth and so on.
I also believe it is individual in that some are more likely than others to suffer from a crisis instead of a transition.
Interestinly, I was speaking with my sister who is much older than me and I asked if she or her husband experienced any type of crisis and she said "No, but I'm sure that is because we are happy". Well, I was really shocked to hear her simplistic explanation. I told her H and I were happy too...and then one day he wasn't. Geesh.
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Adding in my own thoughts....well, more like beliefs.....on MLC and the cultural and religious aspects. I like the way RCR phrases it in the intro article about the cultural part. I think the cultural part also helps push the illusion that MLC is caused by aging.
From the article:
Since midlife crisis seems to be isolated to technologically advanced Western cultures lacking in ritual rites of passage, ageism is often blamed, but it is also not a cause of midlife crisis; rather it is an incubator, providing ideal cultural conditions.
Regarding the religious aspect......I prefer the term core values. The crisis becomes a crisis when the behaviors go against the core values that a person has held and demonstrated.
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DGU,
Could not agree more.
Bon