Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: toughtimes on August 20, 2012, 01:01:52 AM
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I have been thinking alot about unconditional love. I love my children unconditionally, completely. However, I never thought it was possible to love anyone else unconditionally, especially my spouse. But I'm not so sure now. I think I do love him unconditionally? I love him despite the pain he is causing and I think I always will.
Does anyone have any feelings or views on this? I would be so interested to hear.
TTx
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Yeah I do think you can love your spouse unconditionally even though what he is doing at the moment is hurting you because we all know that there is a reason that they are doing this. The problem comes not with loving them unconditionally but whether you can TRUST them. They have broken that trust with their behaviour and I personally think that you may forgive them and love them for what they have done but trusting them is a whole different thing.
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I think if you are standing you know unconditional love or you will get there. When people, even our children, break our trust, it takes a long time for this to come back. I have been reconciling with my H for more than a year now and the trust is slow to return as I continue to heal over the affair and the nasty things he said to me. You continue to cycle. With every cycle you get stronger. What I can tell you though is I learned a deep unconditional love (not those ooey gooey emotional feelings they all get wrapped up in their adulterous relationships), but true love. I saw and see a broken man, know what he did, know he is remorseful and even through it all I love him.
I did a lot of sole searching while H as deep in replay. I thought to myself, did I not want to lose to OW, was this a competition (H even accused me of that). The answer was no. I thought a lot about me, us, and was I just afraid to be on my own . . . again the answer was no. I knew I loved H unconditionally.
Trust, now that takes time and no one fools me more than once, including H.
Hugs,
Sassy
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Nope...I cannot love someone who has shown no compassion for the pain my children are (still) in. Even if he does deal with it. He's all lip service and no REAL feelings for anyone except himself.
I simply cannot love someone like this. And if the feelings I do feel are love for him they are nothing more than a superficial facade.
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I can say I do love my spouse unconditionally. I really do.
As Sassyone said, I saw and see a broken man. I would take him back instantly and would forgive him for what he's done.
However, recently I have begun to feel (or fear) that I might be disillusional about the whole thing. Or that I might confuse my intuition with my deepest wishes. Only time will tell.
peonyxxxxx
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I feel similar to what Sassyone has expressed. I do love my H unconditionally.
It took me a little time though to separate my adoration and remove the rose coloured glasses.
However once I finally did I discovered that the man who stood before was a frail and frightened man with a complete loss of being.
I certainly do not excuse his behaviour and in time he will be accountable for what he's done.
As I continue on my path I will explore the ways that I can become stronger and healthier.
As Sassy shared trust is a whole other factor. I know though after lots of time spent deep in thought that I am willing to trust H again - that I want to. It will be up to him to though to earn it - slowly and genuinely.
The rose coloured glasses are off and yes I do love H unconditionally...
Hugs,
Believer
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This process has taught me that I do. I am deeply disappointed in this version of him and the things he does. The inability to trust his words, actions, and intentions is unbelievable. But they are not insurmountable, if we can get to the starting gate. I have cut myself off from many people in my life (including my own mother) without looking back, and I have also restored and renewed relationships post-MLC. It's possible, and it's my first choice if given the chance.
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I love my exH unconditionally...........no doubt in my mind. I realized it immediately.......something I don't think I've ever really felt before. True, the unconditionally love I hold for my children is different. I've always known it was there for them. I honestly believe this "journey" has shown me......taught me the true meaning of unconditional love. It is such a profound realization. I know I will love him regardless of the outcome.
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I honestly feel you get to the feeling of unconditional love when you remove those rose colored glasses and you look at yourself and begin to live for you.
For me at least, society always taught you that you loved your parents and sibilings and children unconditionally, everyone else had conditions. What I learned in this journey is that H is family and once you are family you are always family so he will always be loved unconditionally, perhaps not in the same manner as before but loved nonetheless.
I also believe that this feeling came about when I was able to see that this was about him and he was in a true emotional and identity crisis. He was broken. I knew I would love him always in some form or fashion. I honestly believe that this crisis was not maliciously done to me. That does not dismiss his actions or behaviors and it is similar to true forgiveness. You can forgiven without condoning the actions (this takes time of course.)
Hugs,
Sassy
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Yes, we can. That is not the same as be able to trust them again, want them back or reconcile the marriage.
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I agree w. SassyOne: ...I also believe that this feeling came about when I was able to see that this was about him and he was in a true emotional and identity crisis...
Yes without a doubt I love my h unconditionally & on some level I knew that from BD.
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Yes, we can. That is not the same as be able to trust them again, want them back or reconcile the marriage.
What does it mean to love them unconditionally? To want the best for them? To want them to be happy? Does this love involve any action on our part (and if it doesn't, can it be called love?)
Last night I was thinking about love. H came home exhausted after his first day back at work after the holidays. I looked after him. Deep down, I am still hurt at his actions, especially his refusal to admit what he has done, to see OW for what she is, and for supporting her to my detriment.
Yes, I love H. I like him, I care for him. But sometimes I think I am no longer "in love" with him. Ironic, isn't it?
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Mermaid,
Reading your post makes me think. I also wonder now if I will ever feel the "in love" towards my exH. I know for a fact, with all my heart.......I love him unconditionally. I have asked myself over and over if I can truly feel the "in love" once again. It seems a little messed up and kind of crazy. How can one have "unconditional" love but yet not know/feel the "in love". Seems like a catch 22......doesn't it? I just tell myself that only time will tell.........there's that word again.......TIME! Your thoughts/questions really get me thinking. Maybe we shouldn't think so much.......just let whatever happens........happen. It will be as it is meant to be.
(((HUGS)))
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What we have lost in all this mess is a realistic view of marriage. In a normal marriage each partner likes & dislikes, loves & hates things about the other. Of course you love each other but after the 1st few years you do not feel that intense emotion [lust, sex, whatever] & yeah, sometimes you feel in love with your partner, sometimes you don't. So, would I feel in love with my husband again? Yes occasionally...
Unconditional love is what you feel even tho your partner is behaving really, really badly. I think that this type of love will fade in time if the behaviour continues.
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Unconditional love is what you feel even tho your partner is behaving really, really badly. I think that this type of love will fade in time if the behaviour continues.
I agree wholeheartedly. Continuing to love someone due to bad behavior is enabeling.
Enabeling is not letting the person recieve the correct punishment for thier bad behavior.
Our boundaries are important to keep the person from throwing thier bad behavior over on us.
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I don't know if i do right now in my interpretation of what it means.
I read somewhere that it means in partnership to allow and assist growth selflessly in another through complete freedom to do so. But freedom to live conditionally, eg: behave in moral ways, be respectful etc.
Yes, love is a feeling an action etc, but i interpret it more as a feeling. I do love my h but also agree that love would fade with his continued bad behaviour ad lack of remorse. I think that is where our unconditional love for ourselves comes in.
I compare the word unconditional with that love we have for the kids, it's not the same and never will be.How many parents have ever said I don't love Johnny anymore because he comitted murder and was sent to prison, and actually meant it deep down??
I think that very few lbs's can say after a period of time that they are still "in love" with their h. That's the bit that takes input and work. I know I am not in love with him and can't imagine what it would take to make me ever feel that way again. Actions unknown and the hero's spouse mantra of TIME.
So i don't think i love him without condition of some sort, but rather i have deep love feelings for him.
SD
xx
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I am 29 and it would be so easy to throw in the towel and say...I am done...onto another man who will not only treat me with kindness and respect, but who will actually be there for my kids! But, I choose not to do this. Why? Because even though I have only been married 5 years I took a vow five years ago and that was not a vow that I looked upon lightly. It isn't the piece of paper that makes me love my H unconditionally....it is a feeling....it is a belief that a H is forever. He is not only my H but the father of the only two people I would give my life to. Before, I would have given my life for H too....right now I wouldn't because if I were gone....my kids would have no one. It is a different love....but the end result is the same...unconditional love. I would never turn my back on my kids and I will not turn my back on my H. With that said, my stand is not a certainty that I will stay married to him or that I will be in love with him....what my stand is saying is that I gave my heart to one man and he has broken it....and only he can one day repair it and give it back to me...finding someone else would mean given them a broken heart that could only be repaired by one man! His words and actions have hurt me and broken my soul....time may help me rebuild it....because I know he will never be able to....he is gone and I am 100% sure he isn't coming back....and yet....at 29, that does not change my stand. I know he did not leave me for OW and I not he didn't leave me because of me....he left because of him....never to return....but I guess that is unconditional love...which is different from being "in love"...
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I think I should have loved my H unconditionally more to begin with not really believing he was an alcoholic . I always thought he could control it when in fact he couldn't and I let this overshadow all the really good things he did do for me.He is a functional alcoholic and we did have many good times drinking together .But as MLC set in which was unbeknown to me he expected me to some how make him happy and I always felt pressure and walked on eggshells.Then the negativity,anger I also blamed on his drinking which did contribute to the depression.I also question if I too was " in love" with him due to his foolish behavior and negativity . When I had those thoughts I would think about what if something happened to him how would I feel, it was then I couldn't imagine my world without him.He said I wanted to control him and he was probably right... I wanted him to grow up.
When I have seen him since BD and his immature drunken behavior I feel pity for him. I feel ashamed for him not of him.At time pre Bd I was ashamed of him and felt his behavior was a reflection on me.
I would like to think I could have unconditional love for him and I pray to God every night asking he give that gift to me and my H.I have had time to do some mirror work I should have loved him unconditionally before his MLC.
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For a year before my W left I prayed to Hod to teach me to love my W unselfishly and forgive me for all my failings. Now she is gone and divorcing me. I still love and care for her despite the pain she is causing me, despite the lies, cruelty, etc. Granted I understand her more being I went through a period of MLC or MLT and wonder if I would be so forgiving if I had not. None the less, this love I have, I am learning to extend to everyone. Especially people who are mean for don't they need it the most? Remember Christ words, what does it profit you to love those who love you. Yes I believe we can love unconditionally but still discern good from bad actions and separate the real person from the "sins".
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Great topic,
I use to love him unconditionally. Now I don't know. I had never ever questioned that before then I never thought that he would do to me what he has, is. :'( :'(
Do I love him yes, although I have been questioning in what way. Have I just been in love with him for so long, that I don't know any difference, do I love him because we have children together. Do I love him from what I remember it was. Is it a different love. One that can withstand this journey through MLC?
Love is something that needs to be nurtured, taking care of. I was told that the love stays. Thats its just hidden. I hope that this is true.
The real question is can I ever really feel safe that if he come through this and wants our marriage, that this wont happen to me again. I couldnt do it again. Its just too painful.
FH
I don't trust him and I don't know if he will ever come out of this and want me. I want to trust him but will never give it blindly again.
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What does it mean to love them unconditionally? To want the best for them? To want them to be happy? Does this love involve any action on our part (and if it doesn't, can it be called love?)
The way I see it and the sort of love I'm talkig about (agape), it means wanting to them to be happy, the best for them but it does not require any action for our part. Yes, I think this sort of uncondicional love can be called love.
Yes, I love H. I like him, I care for him. But sometimes I think I am no longer "in love" with him. Ironic, isn't it?
More normal than ironic, I think. It has been a long time since I was "in love" with my husband. Not sure I will manage to be again. Or want to.
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I am entering into a program for abused women. My therapist has said if he cannot change his behavior I will have to be able to leave him behind. And I had to agree. I guess I am giving my stand 4 years as that is the length of time she said it would take for me to get my life back through work and therapy.
I also tremble each day thinking what I did when I retaliated against him. How badly I may have hurt him. It's so hard to tell though because he is not able to communicate his feelings effectively. It's just rage rage rage.
But even If i must move on with my life and never see him again, i still love him, always will. Unconditionally.
I recall my SIL asking me: If he does this stuff to you, how can you love him? And I just had to tell her, it's not unconditional love if there are conditions!
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I wish I was so magnanimous in my love. I am unable to love him unconditionally without divine intervention. I once believed I was loving him unconditionally but I'm not so sure now. I feared his reprisals and his anger and so I would emotionally give of myself to him within the confines of protecting myself and our crumbling marriage. I see it was conditional then and it is more so now. I know all too well there is a fine line between love and hate and while I tend to embrace the negative at this point in my life, I would much prefer the intense emotion of hate rather than the slow burn of apathy for my H. I do fantasize though about the hope of him returning to me. I do not intend to remarry or seek the comfort of another man even if we are divorced. My mind wanders and I focus on what it might look like if he came home.... He would have to be a broken and humbled man to cross the threshold of my doorstep. I know he is very sick and depressed, but there is a difference between being broken and being sick and escaping. I don't want him to come home to me if he just wants to settle. There definitely would be conditions I would place on him if he was to return into my life. Does this mean I'm incapable of loving him unconditionally? I don't know. I do know that the love I had and that I cherished was for the man he was, for the way we were, and this is locked and secured away for safekeeping. The knowledge of this love gets tormented daily buffeted by the storms of his MLC. I hope it endures the test of time. Early on I tried triage but the bleeding and the wounding was too great and our M succumbed to the casualty of this war. I pray the memory of my love for him/us, doesn't.
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I believe it is possible for me to feel charity and compassion and keep no record of wrongs towards xW but I question wether it would be wise to share the deepest ressesses of my soul in an intimate relationship with such a person again. I'm not sure it would be healthy.
honour
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I think the idea of falling in and out of love during a long relationship or marriage is realistic and I hadn't known that is what couples do until recently! It's pretty normal to fall out of love for months, even years and still love your partner apparently. You definitely have to work at being in love with one another. Most relationships that seem to work are ones where there isn't any complacency, there's a deep love for one another but an awareness that the love ebbs and flows. This unconditional love thing is a tough one to work out, I think I did love my H unconditionally but didn't think so when we were together. The love I feel for my children is undoubtedly unconditional.
So there is love, being 'in love' and there's unconditional love ..... that's a whole lotta love!
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but I question wether it would be wise to share the deepest ressesses of my soul in an intimate relationship with such a person again.
That is a question isn't it??? I never felt safe enough to do this with ExH to begin with. I have no idea I if I could with someone else ....but possibly.
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but I question wether it would be wise to share the deepest ressesses of my soul in an intimate relationship with such a person again.
That is a question isn't it??? I never felt safe enough to do this with ExH to begin with. I have no idea I if I could with someone else ....but possibly.
I felt safe enough with husbadn to do that. And he with me. Could I do it again with him? Not sure. With someone else? Maybe. Would depend of the someone else. For me it is not only a case of could but of want. Would I want to share the deepest of myself the same way I did with husband with him again or with another person? Probably not. We were kids when we meet, it was different.
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I think the idea of falling in and out of love during a long relationship or marriage is realistic
Falling in and out of love is one thing, falling into bed with a person you are not married to, whilst being married, is another. It requires a choice and it requires action.
I can have charity (unconditional love) even for a serial killer i.e. it's a seriously depraved human being who didn't ask to be born that way, but still a human being nonetheless; and we are taught we should "forgive them for they know not what they do"; and we should be noble and compassionate because "do not even sinners love those who love them" etc etc, but even with all those high morals having been said, I still don't want to be left alone in a dark alley with a serial killer.
Likewise I'm not sure it is wise to entrust my life for a second time to someone who has proven themselves capable of the most callous, cruel and destructive savagery anyone could unleash upon a loving partner. It may not be wise to be "left alone in a dark alley" with someone capable of such behaviour because it just may be dangerous for a second time.
We should be clear and not delude ourselves, irrespective of all the theorizing about depression and fogs and tunnels, these people, MLCers as we call them, commit adultery and monster at their spouses because they can, and because it suits them to do so.
honour
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Falling in and out of love is one thing, falling into bed with a person you are not married to, whilst being married, is another. It requires a choice and it requires action.
I totally agree. This is a really stupid, short sighted, cruel, disrespectful way of dealing with the low points in the relationship. I think we delude ourselves that relationships and marriage are all "Disney, happily ever after" and this just doesnt exist. I feel a realistic approach, that your love will be up and down, is essential. My H and I talked about this a lot together and were very pragmatic, the grass isn't always greener etc. He even understood the neurological process of the initial falling in Love feeling and how this is fleeting and why so many people chase and chase that feeling moving from one person to the next!
Because a choice is being made I guess the only way you can forgive is if the spouse takes responsibility for that choice and take responsibility for the hurt it causes. This is remorse.
I know that when you feel depressed you make choices that not the best ones to make and you have a distorted view of the world. However, I have to say that I have suffered with depression and I have never ever intentionally hurt anyone else but I know I have said and done things that were hurtful to my H without doing it knowingly. This is why you need a trusted "other opinion" as to whether you are thinking and acting straight!
I just feel, given what my H has expressed in the past 15 years, he is completely different person with a whole new set of values. Now this seems like a crisis to me and it's not him. I therefore feel like I can understand his actions as wrong, just plain wrong. So that makes me see that it is not my fault and not that I didn't love enough or I didn't love him unconditionally. It remains to be seen if his crisis follows the pattern of MLC, but if it does I will be relieved because it does explain his cruel, callous and selfish behaviour.