Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: calamity on December 02, 2014, 04:30:23 AM
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Old thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4793.0
I brought this over from the old thread as I think it is a very important post.
I have suffered from depression. It's hard to imagine what goes on in the mind of a person who is depressed; it is a private hell. Each person experiences depression differently. I would describe it as being a short circuit in the brain which distorts normal thought processes and the worst thing about it is the depressed mind feels like reality no matter how much you tell yourself that what you are thinking or doing is not logical. One of the issues with depression is that it can creep up on you gradually so that one day you realise something is not right but you don't have a name for it. It is so awful that I understand why someone who has has not been diagnosed will turn to all sorts of things to get some respite. I was lucky in that my doctor recognised the symptoms and I got professional help. One of the best bits of advice I was given during this time was to not do anything life changing that I might later regret - at BD I repeated this to H but he insisted he knew what depression was and he wasn't depressed.... It is a tragedy that so many of our MLCers are either ignorant of the symptoms of depression or refuse for whatever reason to acknowledge there may be a problem.
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The depression is horrible. I am so afraid of it coming back. It certainly is a battle to overcome. You know when I asked H what he planned on doing and if he was ever going to come back to get his stuff he said I'm not making any major decisions in my life right now...this was AFTER he picked up and walked out on his life, bought a race car, and rented the dump???? I'd say those were major decisions. Crazy!
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Attaching :)
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Mine knew he was depressed and refused to get help. In retrospect, the day I begged him to get IC was the first time I saw the monster. They need to be ready to address their issues. Until they are, they will run.
I see in myself that I had a mini-crisis before BD. I was pursuing my doctorate for all the wrong reasons. I was deeply depressed just before he started with OW due to getting laid off, and I just dove deeper and deeper into my studies. Then BD came and I was a mess. That, however, spurned me into getting the help I needed. Its the difference between me and him: I knew needed help. I might have been running for awhile (my "mistress" was me education) but I didn't go off the rails like him. I don't have to live with the kind of guilt he has to live with.
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Mine knew he was depressed and refused to get help. In retrospect, the day I begged him to get IC was the first time I saw the monster. They need to be ready to address their issues. Until they are, they will run.
I see in myself that I had a mini-crisis before BD. I was pursuing my doctorate for all the wrong reasons. I was deeply depressed just before he started with OW due to getting laid off, and I just dove deeper and deeper into my studies. Then BD came and I was a mess. That, however, spurned me into getting the help I needed. Its the difference between me and him: I knew needed help. I might have been running for awhile (my "mistress" was me education) but I didn't go off the rails like him. I don't have to live with the kind of guilt he has to live with.
Mine is doing something like that now. Recently(and always now that I think about it) he has tried to blame the depression and mood swings on his drinking. He will sometimes admit maybe he needs help but then he doesn't do anything-I guess he gets on that upswing and decides there is nothing wrong with him.
I realized when H and I were talking the other night that I had done something like him although not on as grand a scale. I threw myself into pet rescue and political activism for an identity and also b/c I got no attention from him. My "crimes" were really very minor but he has inflated them to the point where I didn't care if he lived or died and had no respect for him. So I guess many of us have had at least transitions either leading up to BD or due to it.
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Interesting way of looking at this.
My situation is similar but I didn't realize it until much later. I was going to school and working full-time. Once I graduated I got a job that where my education would be used. I was laid off after a year, unemployed for 6 months, next job was 1 1/2 then laid off again. I have always been very independent so not having stable employment was tough on me. I still paid attention to H but I think that he was having difficulty coping with the situation - we never struggled financially even when I wasn't working. I am sure that I was experiencing some depression but I didn't run from things. I did start to drink more but I think that was due to H pulling away - that is how I was dealing with being at home with him but feeling like I was all alone.
I really think that the MLCer doesn't have the coping skills that they need to deal with life. My H was fine so long as there were no surprises and he could be in control :o
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Mine knew he was depressed and refused to get help. In retrospect, the day I begged him to get IC was the first time I saw the monster. They need to be ready to address their issues. Until they are, they will run.
Mine was going and on AD's but stopped both.
I saw monster every time I brought it up...then it was projection.
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attaching
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Am starting to find out what MLC SCRIPT is...
I have never heard H use the phrase "it is what it is" in 23 years but last week...heard it twice before reading this thread.
H: " My mom and Ex SIL went thru this(finding out their H's cheated) and they are happy now"
Pause. Teary eyed H: " They married someone else, didn't they?"
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I know this is an old thread but I'm enjoying reading through the previous script threads and thought I'd add some of the ones I've heard:
I felt neglected and unloved / you suffocated me
I don't think this is forever
I can't ask you to wait
It bothers me I've never been with anyone else, how do I know you're the one?
I don't need anything you can have it all, I'll be ok with just a mattress on the floor
I've been trying for years
I've been pretending for years
I'm just in a dark place right now
I'm tired of the cycle
I need to be alone, I need to go dark
I can't see myself continuing down this path I'm on but I can't see myself coming back either
I keep hitting a wall and I don't know if I can get past it
I'm just numb and can't feel anything and don't want to feel anything
I know I need to stop running from my problems
I do love you but it's buried by numbness and depression
I just left to try to feel something but nothing worked
I thought leaving would make me happy but it didn't it made it worse
I tried to tell myself I didn't need you and just needed to try harder to get over you
I'm sorry I ruined your life, all I ever wanted was to make you happy
I can't forgive you for how you neglected me 5 years ago
I can't feel anything for anyone
Don't cry for me, I'm not worth it
You deserve better
Don't worry about me
This won't affect (daughter) at all, she'll be fine (she's 3!!)
I didn't leave (daughter) I only left you
I know you must hate me
I can't see a time when I wouldn't miss you
I will always be there for you
It would never work, there's a reason I left, and now I've done too much damage
I can't see the road in front of me
There's like a big cloud of thoughts swirling around and it changes every day
Wow..
Seeing it all laid out like this makes it painfully obvious how lost they are.
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Ok I have read through pretty much all of it and yes I nodded my head to a bunch of them.. But I can also add.. ::)
- you need to find a boyfriend
- I want you to be happy because Iam very happy right now (after talking about he wants a divorce once we can.. We have to live on this state for a year and you can divorce so we live separate cause he moved out to his own apartment)
- wants an apartment on his own and rented it. Said the truth to me. Said he wants to figure out if he wants to be alone or with us -- then said:" I want to f*cking live my life! Going out with other people and have fun."
- I want a new computer and I get one if I want one ( after telling him when I leave he can get the iMac but until then I need it also for the kids)
- when discussing marriage he says that "what society accepts as cheating should be revised. One can be married and love that spouse but seek pleasure outside of marriage whenever." When I asked if he should then tell that spouse of needing his needs met somewhere else he said not really, just go out and do it, it's not her business. :o :o :o
- I said what's the point then of getting married as marriage is suppose to be only with one person - he says "that the traditional saying what society accepts but it shouldn't be the saying of what you can do or not do with other people. If your needs aren't met you should be able to do and have it met whenever you need. " :o :o :o
- when I told him I need my needs met he said get a boyfriend I don't care. I said its your job. He said "I don't want to right now, Ian not in the mood (which he hasn't been in anyways for the last week)"
- I will never come back ::)
- you don't know me the last 3 years
- I am mentally divorced from you for a while ???
- I don't love you and never will ::)
- Iam not your husband anymore and never will
- I love her but I don't love you.. ;D
- Iam sorry Iam such a horrible husband
- you deserve someone that truly loves you (pity party)
- and then breaking up with me over FaceTime at least 3 times and text messages many times as well.. ::)
- you are cold and you don't care (after me starting to detach and not engaging in drama or his comments, I stayed friendly but not interested)
- I have never kissed her (after our oldest son has seeing a picture of those two kissing yet to this day he denies this happened and claims my son is a liar to cover his ass) >:(
- "if you or your friends contact her I swear Iam done with you.. I want her to want me for me and not because of drama".. :o (Early days after bomb drop and me in shock)
- it is not about her but if I want to stay with you
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- when discussing marriage he says that "what society accepts as cheating should be revised. One can be married and love that spouse but seek pleasure outside of marriage whenever." When I asked if he should then tell that spouse of needing his needs met somewhere else he said not really, just go out and do it, it's not her business. :o :o :o
I got this storyline too :o I asked if he would be ok with me doing this - absolutely not! He would leave me if I did this :o
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H's response to my saying "One day you are going to wake up and find you threw away the best thing that ever happened to you."
"I might."
"You never let me start any side businesses." (Yes, H. I forced you to play video games every spare moment instead of starting a side business.)
"S16 need to get rid of all the stuff in his room. It's a mess." (The room had just been cleaned and S had gotten rid of several childhood toys)
You can run the dryer at night.
The dryer bothers me at night.
No, you can run the dryer at night.
H-"You never thanked me for doing the dishes."
M-"Um, I've done the dishes for 20 years. You just started doing them sometimes 6 months ago. Did you ever thank me for doing the dishes for 20 years?"
H-"No, why should I?
(I followed up with "If you never thought to thank me, why would I think to thank you?" Met with silence.)
My most favorite was when H had been drinking until he puked at 3 am, and I had to go to his parents house to get S16 because he couldn't. He told his parents later he had just had indigestion and was coughing, he wasn't puking. (Yep, that's what kept you from getting your son...). But why mention that he wasn't puking? I had only said H wasn't feeling well when I picked up S.
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- when discussing marriage he says that "what society accepts as cheating should be revised. One can be married and love that spouse but seek pleasure outside of marriage whenever." When I asked if he should then tell that spouse of needing his needs met somewhere else he said not really, just go out and do it, it's not her business. :o :o :o
I got this storyline too :o I asked if he would be ok with me doing this - absolutely not! He would leave me if I did this :o
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Mine said first "go ahead and date" and when I asked him "would you be Okay me dating" and he said no I wouldn't "... ???
Or every time I went somewhere (even if I had an appointment) he said to me immediately :"I'm not watching the kids if you were going on a date I just don't feel comfortable you doing that ".. ::)
Really?!? Why would you think it is a date with no word have I said it is a date ! I just thought it was really amusing , him projecting to what he would do ..
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I heard:
I don't love you anymore
I'm done
Find yourself somone who will dance with you (nice thought now)
Awww it wasn't all her fault (in regards to exow)
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At BD:
"I'm not wanted or loved here"
"You deserve better than me, I create sh** everywhere I go"
"Don't blame yourself, I did this"
To D, then 9:
"Daddy has made a few mistakes"
"I'm really angry with myself"
Then stay and sort it out, not run away and create more destruction! >:(
Me: "Do you love me?"
H: "Yes"
Me: "Do you love her?"
H: "Yes"
Me: "How can you love two women?"
H: "I don't know"
Me: Do you want to make a life with her?
H: I might ::)
8 months later:
"It's rocky but I'm trying really hard to make it work" :o (but you couldn't try hard to make a relationship of 23 years work >:()
"I'll always care about you and D, but I don't love you"
"You didn't do anything wrong. We just grew apart."
Around 20 months later during a big touch and go:
"Sometimes we get in a slump in life and we can't find our way out."
Around 4/5 months ago:
During an hour conversation where he had phoned me and was, according to him, stood out on the road (away from OW): We were discussing a friend's D13 who is apparently boy mad according to her Mum.
H: "No, she's not boy mad. She's crying out for attention and when you're crying out for attention you pick up with the first piece of sh** that comes along." :o
When talking about the girl's mother being stuck in a controlling relationship and me suggesting that she may feel that she is stuck
H: "The only reason you get stuck with someone is when they've got something on you." :o
Projection at its best here. An interesting exercise to log this down and see the subtle changes over time.
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Oh yes I got that " One can love two people at the same time " speech at the beginning too.... :o
One is totally capable of that... Yeah... Sure buddy...
I also got :
I always will have feelings for you you are the mother of my children ..
I always will care for you and your well-being ..
But then I also got a complement pretty much the only one that I will remember and I take as is:
You said : "you are a hell of a mother" 8)
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- you are cold and you don't care (after me starting to detach and not engaging in drama or his comments, I stayed friendly but not interested)
I got this one too. After he *asked* me to go dark (on my birthday BTW) a few days later he was already like why are you so cold, why are you so distant, I can't even get a hug? I would remind him he asked me to go dark and he would say "well you don't have to be so cold about it" or "well you didn't have to do it so well" ..
On my birthday he also told me (and I found out later told my FIL the same when he asked) "why would I do anything for your birthday we aren't together?!" Then less than 2 weeks later was Father's Day and when I declined to come along with him and *daughter* he was devastated saying "I thought you'd be here to celebrate with me"
They are truly crazy!!
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Oh yes I got that " One can love two people at the same time " speech at the beginning too.... :o
One is totally capable of that... Yeah... Sure buddy...
Lol... I got that too ::) when I pushed him on it he told me "you have 2 cats and you love them both" :o
Hard to argue that one - not. He did refer to OW as his pet :o in his eyes I think that we were both just play toys to him.
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Oh yes I got that " One can love two people at the same time " speech at the beginning too.... :o
One is totally capable of that... Yeah... Sure buddy...
Lol... I got that too ::) when I pushed him on it he told me "you have 2 cats and you love them both" :o
Hard to argue that one - not. He did refer to OW as his pet :o in his eyes I think that we were both just play toys to him.
Or maybe you are his pet... ;D ;) 8) lol..
But I agree it is very strange to compare a pet to a person ..
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We were probably both pets in his mind :o a pet is something that you own - that is what he wanted. He wanted control over 2 women! He has always had control issues.
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;D ;D ;D ;D I'm sorry two Cats?? :o :o :o
The ex said all I ever meant to him was sex..he said that twice.
I believe that!
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Around BD time:
'Maybe I'm just being an a'hole''
'Maybe she's just a good lay.'
'I want both of you.'
'I want to stay and I want to go.'
'We're a long way from divorce'.
'It feels like there's a hole inside of me, and nothing's ever enough to fill it'
'There's been no excitement in our marriage since the beginning.' (24 years ago)
'I don't want him to grow up in a broken home.' (about S, then 13)
'You're thinner, but you're not thin enough.'
On that note, I think I'll call it quits! I could go on for hours! I've just remembered how nuts it all was and how b***** rude he was. :D
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Did anybody get anything like these?
"It's true I'm not on the same level as you but that doesn't mean I don't love you"
"I can't give you what we had in the past at this moment right now"
"Our date reminded me of old times, how we used to be and feel, but for some reason I just can't feel like that right now"
"Yes I do care about you and I love you but not at the same level as you or in the past"
"I saw small parts of our past, what we had but then it just fades as fast as it comes. I don't know what it means I try to make sense of it as well I don't know why I feel the way I feel."
I realize these probably sound great to alot of LBS but this was after months of back & forth from him and then he said these things during a seemingly very promising reconnection attempt and at the time when he said them I was devastated all over again. The "not on the same level as you" particularly hurt me.
Is this normal? Just depression? Not something I need to worry about in a true reconnection/reconciliation?
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Did anybody get anything like these?
"It's true I'm not on the same level as you but that doesn't mean I don't love you"
"I can't give you what we had in the past at this moment right now"
"Our date reminded me of old times, how we used to be and feel, but for some reason I just can't feel like that right now"
"Yes I do care about you and I love you but not at the same level as you or in the past"
"I saw small parts of our past, what we had but then it just fades as fast as it comes. I don't know what it means I try to make sense of it as well I don't know why I feel the way I feel."
I realize these probably sound great to alot of LBS but this was after months of back & forth from him and then he said these things during a seemingly very promising reconnection attempt and at the time when he said them I was devastated all over again. The "not on the same level as you" particularly hurt me.
Is this normal? Just depression? Not something I need to worry about in a true reconnection/reconciliation?
No it was in the beginning so I think just an attempt to keep you close in case it doesn't work out with her to come back... I think it was cake-eating and not really a decision.. Just to dangle you along..
Mine did that too. I know he was baiting her in too at the same time..
Reconnection at this point you are in is wwwaaaayyy too early.. I would guess your H is in run and avoid.. The longest stage and at the beginning of all of this..
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Oh... I have so many.. Still in the process of deciphering some.. Most I've totally discarded as garbage.. There is some truth in a few.. but not many...
I do love you, I do care about you, I'm just not happy.. I ask why are you unhappy? I don't know... I'm just not..
I don't want to be married, Why? I don't want to be married to you. Why? I don't know? Did you stop loving, caring, wanting me? Still unable to answer this one.. Just looks confused and doesn't respond..
Our life wasn't a total lie - Still not sure what this means?? He's graduated since this to know he "hates" me..
I hate what I do, I hate my job. The only reason I go to that miserable $%($*#*%&^@ place is for you and s.. All I do is suffer for you and s (time frame of suffering has varied from the past year to the entire relationship of 15 years)
This started last Fall.. This tells a wife, I hate being responsible for you and s and I'm angry that I feel obligated to do so, work sucks right now, and it's all your fault.. I twisted this into, he's unhappy / miserable at work because of me and having responsibilities.... I tried to take the blame for this.. and it wasn't mine to bear!
We treat him like a slave - still haven't figured this out, maybe something to do with his job issues?? Financial responsibilities?? It's certainly NOT because I don't work to contribute or am the full caretaker of everything within the home, cars, yard is on him.. Yet, he's free to and always has been, to do, say, act, purchase do anything he chooses to... With or without my input.. According to him, he works hard, he deserves it.. Scratching my head still...
I can't live with you because you sleep with the tv on (yes, I did, haven't slept with the tv on in almost 5 months, that was hard, but actually helped me a lot)
You are too dramatic - always some kind of drama.. Can't take it.. Wow... After the initial shock (which I still have at times) has begun to subside, I realized, all of the "drama" talk was actually his projection.. Our lives centered around HIS drama, work, family, etc.. He would "hear" mine but his was always center stage and "one upped" me every time - primarily since AI.
You are codependent, mistrusting, and too emotional - Well.. Hmmmm..... After months and a ridiculous amount of money, spent on therapy and every self help book, marriage boot camp, etc I could get my hands on, I realized that yes, I did / do have some of those characteristics. It's the root of them, how they were triggered that finally made me realize what was happening in our marriage.. and to me!!! There are aspects of codependency that are healthy in a marriage - for the most part, this didn't become an issue, for me, until last summer, when the major change in behavior began.. My whole being freaked and it was already in panic mode as our only child went off to college.. I became more depressed, more emotional (thanks menopause fairy, your great) and became such needy, emotional roller coaster that I couldn't see the forest through the trees... I was reacting to his behavior and feeling the beginning of the emotional detachment.. He wasn't fully gone, until after he left in April. That's when h ceased to exist. That was full AI.. Mistrusting - became that way.. But only after I allowed my own insecurities about my physical appearance make assumptions that his new secret porn fantasy was more than it was.. That's my issue and I'm working hard to really embrace my inward beauty and remember that is what matters most.. I know that is a huge issue with h, I did, for the past year, I accused him of cheating.. are wanting to.. thinking he wanted to, all because of his behavior.. I still do not believe he would ever.. Of course, that was up until AI and the alien has taken full control of everything.. I no longer know, don't really want to!
S will be fine, he's 19, I'm not abandoning him, I'm abandoning you (d word goes here too), I will never give S another dime, how dare he question my decision to leave, S is tired of listening to you talk about what I've done to you, S doesn't want to come home because you are crazy, you don't have a family anymore, S doesn't care he's just a selfish brat who just wants to get his way, I will always be here for s, he will always be my son (mind you, he has NO contact with s, whatsoever...)
This is just the stuff that I can somewhat recall.. Some of this was immediately after AI and my memory of that whole time period is somewhat blurry.. But some I have in text and email.. So it does help me understand exactly what was said.. Still doesn't make sense to me at all!!! Yes, the last year was rough.. But was it all of this??!! No.. We were doing a pretty good job of growing into our empty nest, it is a huge transition for us, just as it is for s.. It was rough but I realized around November, we were getting through it, growing closer, what a great time we were having.. Then in February, it all begin to change.. and I had NO idea what was looming..
I could write a book on just the things this thing has said to me.. Somewhere inside is my h, I pray he's fighting to get out but without getting to graphic, some of the names and things he's said to me are simply inhumane.. Something he would have never said to me in the past.. and sadly, it's getting worse.. Going dark has stopped some of this but it's the same verse, it just seems to keep getting nastier, uglier, and more out of control... with more colorful adjectives and pronouns.. But it's still the same, hasn't changed the tune at all.. At times he's throws out new info but usually it's when he's in full alien mode and it's always awful and hurtful..
I just no longer listen.. It's the only way I've been able to reach a point where I can honestly, detach and when I'm required to interact with him, do so from a place of kindness but not without remembering what type of thing I'm dealing with.. Not so much remembering what he's done and said, it's remembering what he's currently struggling with and what his decision making process is capable of doing..
It's hard not to take their personal attacks against us, personally. There is so much garbage, that we know is totally untrue, however, in their mess, there are some threads of truth, and those, are the ones that I've found to be the most devastating for me to find and work on for myself.. It's the part of seeing what my behavior and reactions were that led to this.. I know this isn't about me but yet, the way I've behaved prior to AI, wasn't healthy either, I'm not that person and I refuse to be out of control emotionally, ever again.. What's the most interesting, of all the bull that they "claim" is why they leave, cheat, d, whatever path they choose, most of it is complete trash... and it's difficult to remember that WE are NOT what they claim...
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No kidding
my situation reminds me of the line Jack Nicholson says in
"As good as it gets"
Sell crazy someplace else
Were all stocked up here ::)
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My h said "I'm not the type of person to have an affair! That shows you how bad it was" meaning how unhappy he was .. ! So his justification was to have an affair anyway even tho he's not that type of person! Yeah right!
Another was" me and mam deserve to be happy ! ' after the affair was discovered and the kids asked why?!? But he forgot to tell me I wasn't happy!!!
Blimey when you think about what they've said you really just shake your head in disbelief!
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I think we've all heard these at one point or another, but for the newbies I will throw the strangest one I got right after BD. He said he had to leave "Because the dog is too fat."
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Personally, the dog is too fat is my favourite. They are BAT$h!te CRAZY... get the hell out of the way and leave them to it. Save yourself and whatever RESPECT you have left for you MLCer.
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I don't know stayed, I think the one about not finding someone with a bigger Pen!$ kinda beats that. ;D
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Well perhaps with the exception of the dog being too fat lol, I reaaly think most of it is projection of all the stuff from their childhood or at least a good portion of it.
I believe the drama is what they grew up with and a lot of their complaints are the things they have had said to them when growing up in their family homes.
I was accused off not keeping my shoulders back!! putting my elbows on the table!! not keeping the house tidy, that was a big one guess what his mom was ocd over a tidy house, although I obviously wasnt around when he was growing up I can pretty much see how it was and putting it together has made so much sense.
If you want to know where the projections come from look to his foo, mine even told his mom ow is just like her, they try to recreate their childhood in order to put it right, they need to go back and re live it and they cant do that with us.
I never realised what his foo is like until I myself started to open my eyes, I can see it clearly now.
The majority of the mlcer complaints are what they feel about themselves, the things their parents went on at them for when they were growing up and then come the things they feel about themselves for what they have done.
Mrsmedfly a lot of the things your h said to you, could his parents not of said them to him when he was young??
Food for thought.
x
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The majority of the mlcer complaints are what they feel about themselves, the things their parents went on at them for when they were growing up and then come the things they feel about themselves for what they have done.
Come to think of it, my MLCr's Mom is waaaayyyy focused on weight and not being fat and always told H he needed to lose weight.......perhaps he was projecting when he said that about our dog? Interesting..........
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Almost all of it is projection, with a tiny piece of a truth dart thrown in just enough to make us question ourselves. Or possibly that little truth is true for both MLCer and LBS.
I know the thing that bothers my H the most is how much money is being spent on D19 for college. He didn't want to hear about it before the fact. He NEEDED D to go to some fancy college because he always felt like he couldn't make it into any "good" college. The newest line from my MLCer? He is upset because I said I didn't want S16 to go to college. On what planet did I ever say that? I simply told S that he could start at a community college first, then move to a 4 year college as an alternative to starting at a 4 year college. How did that become "I don't want you to go to college, S"?
I think their brains are like those mixed up sentences that you have to put the words in the right order, and they don't have the correct answer for the proper order.
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Same universe where "s is grounded but you can come in and visit." Means you can't see so . Amazing what they hear!
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Okay, time for me to play. :)
Thunder mentioned my personal favorite (although SF's dog is my favorite non-Medusa one).
Here's the entire story.
Him: maybe we should have an open marriage.
Me: umm, there are two problems with that. First, since I already know about OW, technically we do have an open marriage. Second, there are rules to this kind of arrangement. The cardinal rule is that you cannot get emotionally involved with someone.
(Silence and the MLC stare)
Him: well, maybe is just need to f*ck other people for awhile.
Me: otherr people or other person?
(More silence and more MLC stare).
Him: I thought it would just be a fling.
Me: this matters why since it's been going on for months?
(Still more silence and more MLC stare)
Him: I think you should sleep with other men, as long as his Pen!$ is smaller than me.
(Medusa stands with her jaw hanging thinking, did he really just say that?)
On another occasion when we were discussing why he refused to spend time with me:
Him: I can't do it. I don't want to feel like a two-timer.
Me: (hysterical laughter that I'm sure the entire neighborhood heard)
Him: please don't laugh at me.
Me: (trying not to laugh) okay, but you do understand how stupid that sounds, right?
Him: yes
Later in the same conversation
Him: I really wish we could all move to Utah.
Me: Nope. Won't work. The first wife doesn't like the one you consider the second wife.
Him: (a look of profound disappointment)
Other classics from my clown include the comment that my multiple orgasms were a distraction, that I'd lost so much weight I was boney, and that he no longer found me sexually attractive because I look like my dad (it only took 30 years for him to notice).
I also got "I love you hit its not enough" (whatever that means) and "I don't believe we are programmed to love only one person in our life".
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:o medusa..... :o
::) :-X ;D ;D ;D
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I will offer an oldie but a goodie:
Ex: I know why we can't be together.
Me: oh?
Ex: You MADE me watch Everybody Loves Raymond once.
Me: What?
Ex: Stop being stupid. It was a seminal point in our relationship. Remember? About ten years ago you MADE me watch the last 10 minutes of ELR. It was on right before the movie we had been waiting all week to see.
Me: Have you been hit on the head recently?
Then there was:
Ex: I always thought you were the good looking one in our relationship.
Me: I always thought you were quite handsome.
Ex: See that's why we can't be together. You're always wrong about everything. I can't be with someone as stupid as you!!!!
Me: I see. I'm wrong. I don't think you are handsome.
Ex: OH SO NOW ITS PROVEN !!! YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THAT ALL THESE YEARS. I DONT EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE !!!
ME : I have to go now. I'm late for a meeting.
Ex: Is it your MENSA meeting tonight?
Me: Yes
How about:
315 am my phone rings.
Me: Hello?
Ex: I finally figured out why we can't be together.
Me: oh goodie I can't wait to hear the 14 th reason why we can't be together.
Ex: No no this time I've got it. Really. I promise.
Me: ok. Well?
Ex: I forgot what I was going to say.
Me: Well in that case, I'll just go back to bed and wait for it to be posted on Facebook tomorrow.
Ex: No no i'll remember it was really THE reason.
Me: Yes?
Ex: your birthday is in the wrong month!
Me: Take that up with my parents
Ex: F#CK YOU B!TCH !!!
Me: No thanks.
10 minutes later-
Me: Hello?
Ex: I unfriended you on Facebook. So there.
Me: Ok
Ex: See we can't be together because we aren't even Facebook friends.
Me: Yeah, stick with that one when you file. The judge will love that one.
Ex: File what?
Me: Divorce papers
Ex: We are getting divorced? Who said that?
Me: If we can't be together we must be getting divorced.
Ex: Why?
Me: Because you're having sex with your 20 year old girlfriend.
Ex: Crickets.....She is my friend. She has nothing to do with us. You have no proof.
Me: I have to go now. Good bye.
Ex: Who is in MY bed with you? !!! I'll kill him!
Voice in the background...Why are you yelling Dr R ? Who are you talking to?
Ex: My F#CKING WIFE !!
Me: I guess I have proof.
Ex: I HATE YOU BOTH !!!!!
I bet she had a wonderful night after that.
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;D ;D ;D times one hundred
I'm sorry there are some classics here
The Pen!$ size one kills me!!!
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LP.
It must have been like talking to someone about 16 years old. Honestly, that is no where near adult thoughts. wow..
When my H took his wedding ring off it was because I said I might fight for the dogs after a heated argument. He finally had his "reason" to take it off. ::) I knew better, he just wanted to look single for all the ladies out there.
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Ok - Ok - My turn!
(remember I refer to my H as Ostrich, Ostrich-Boy and OB for short)
-------------------------------------------------
Ostrich: I know my leaving means you won't be able to afford retiring, and I know you were really looking forward to it. I have figured out a solution for you
Me: (Blank stare)
Ostrich: You could buy a trailer in Florida where you could afford to live and I can take over the Manhattan apartment.
Me: First, let me give you my answer to that suggestion - "No!"
Second, why are you suggesting this?
Ostrich: Well I have been looking for apartments in Manhattan and there is nothing I like as much as this one. (please note - I lived in the apartment years before Ostrich was on the scene)
----------------
Ostrich: I have been nothing but kind and compassionate though out this entire break-up.
Me: (blank stare)
Ostrich: What have I ever done or said that was unkind?
Me: Well you told me you never loved me.
Ostrich: (blank stare - pause - and then finally) Well I misspoke.
Me: You misspoke?
Ostrich: Yes I meant to tell you I was never sexually attracted to you.
Me: Really? We have had sex regularly for 20 years. We have just been having the wildest sex we have ever had just this past month.
Ostrich: Yes I know, It was "break-up sex"
Me: Break-up sex? I have heard of make-up sex but never break up sex.
Ostrich: You are so stupid - look it up on the internet!
----------------
Ostrich: I know we have a great marriage, its not about that, its about the fact that I love this woman and I have to jump into the abyss with her.
Me: You do realize the words abyss and abysmal are related, don't you?
----------------
Ostrich: You know the other day when you brought up about the great sex we have been having lately?
Me: Yes?
Ostrich: Well I realized what that is about.
Me: Oh?
Ostrich: Yes, I had already made up my mind to go to OW and I was trying out some new moves to perfect them before I used them on her.
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OMG Airmid that last one is so awful!
Mine were nothing in comparison, ashamed to post my pathetic H's sayings....apart from the usual ILY....etc all I really got was you are a really attractive woman, but I'm not attracted to you anymore.
'I don't know' - his favourite response to absolutely everything, could not make a decision at all.
From the top of this thread I read 'it is what it is' H has just started saying this, never heard him say this before.
He told me he'd stopped paying into his pension, then 3 months later wanted to protect his pension from me....why it's worthless you've stopped paying???
They are such bad liars, they can't remember what they've said.
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Airmid they just do't understand what is going on in their head and they make up the most cruel things to say.
You know in their right mind they would never say anything like that to anyone.
I think it's to push you away so you will leave him alone and he can get on with his wonderful fantasy life. ::) ::)
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Thunder -
It gets so bizarre all you can do is laugh (in hindsight).
What an A-hole!
Oh - and once he said to me just before he made some other really stupid and cruel statement...
"I don't want to be an @$$hole about this"
to which I relplied
"I think that ship has sailed already" ::)
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I got
The passion is gone...... and you killed it!!!!
Hmm so it doesnt take 2, I did it all by myself, who would of thought.
x
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I robbed mine of a sex life apparently. Despite the fact I kept trying to get some action while he was clinging to the edge of the bed.
He also told me he'd never find anyone more intelligent or attractive.
Baffling. If we didn't have each other to share this with then we'd probably crack up
Xx
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My wife's were pretty tame but did indicate her confusion. They occurred around 3 weeks after she moved out. She was upset because I had changed the locks after hearing that she was telling her sisters she was going to divorce me and take half of everything.
She asked me why I changed the locks. I asked her why shouldn't I? She said because I live here. I told her she hadn't lived here in several weeks. She got really mad and ran out of the house crying. One of the few times she's ever shown me any anger and one of the few times I know of that I hurt her badly.
Later in that same conversation after I calmed her down by explaining to her that I changed the locks because I didn't trust her friend, she told me he didn't even know where she lives. I upset her again by pointing out that she lived with him.
I don't know, maybe the 3 weeks she had been living with him she was just on vacation.
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Air, you made me snort! Abyss and abysmal. Hysterical!
You forgot the vacuum, sweetie! ;)
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I forgot these:
You weren't upset enough when I had the car accident. (How many times do I have to ask if he needs to go to the hospital and tell him how lucky we were that the car was so crash proof? I have pictures of him standing there grinning with thumbs up because he wasn't hurt at all.)
We're separate, we're just roommates.
Why do you want to get a separation?
I don't want to be roommates, I thought you wanted to be roommates.
We're just roommates.
I think we've solved some problems.
We haven't solved any of our problems.
We'll never solve our problems.
We've had problems for years.
We've had problems for years and years.
We've always had problems.
We're always fighting. At least once a month or every two months.
You told me you hate me. (I actually said "You must hate me to treat me this way.")
You're always angry (said while he is angry and I am not).
I don't understand. We both have the same complaints. (projection, much?)
I'm engaged in this relationship (said repeatedly when I said I felt like I was in the relationship alone)
I checked out emotionally 2 1/2 years ago.
Well, then, that's a good thing!(Said when I said at least I knew I wasn't crazy, he HAD lied to me and really WAS checked out for the past 2.5 year)
Why do you stay in the bedroom all the time?
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Dang, I cannot believe I forgot another classic:
Me: you obviously don't have any respect for me.
Him: Yes I do!
Me: how?
Him: (MLC stare).
This one was about 4 months after BD.
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Mine seem so tame but this floored me when it happened: the windshield on our van cracked when I was defrosting it and I dreaded telling him b/c it would be all my fault(his family is big on blaming anyway). This is no more than a month after BD. I said, "H, I have to tell you something" wringing my hands. H sits up looking petrified, "What is it?!". I tell him and he goes, "Oh my
God, I thought you were going to say you'd found someone else." WTF?
Also after he started talking about maybe getting back together-
Me: did you cheat on your girlfriends with me b/c I'm your wife, or are you just a cheater forever now?
H: it's not fair to call me a cheat, you ARE my wife. The logic in that sentence ::)
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OMG .. the trying new moves one literally made my jaw drop ..
Now I'm wondering if that's what my H was doing too .. :-[
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Oh I forgot one of the classics right around when he moved out. I guess we were talking about whether or not he would miss me.
H told me "I mourned the relationship years ago and in my head was already single. So there's nothing to miss."
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This is a compilation of all the quotes I have managed to collect from various sources of what MLC'ers have said about what they felt during their crisis...
I thought I would make it available to everyone as it has helped me to understand.
Hope this helps others...
If anyone else has other quotes from MLC'ers they have come across please feel free to add them
Previous threads
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4793.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3776.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3564.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3528.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3521.0
He never responded during those times but he did talk to me lately about that saying that it was the most miserable times in his life. That it was pure hell. He would lay there at night with so much pain, hurt, shame, and guilt that he couldn't stand it. He said he would think how can OW b OK she left her family and she is OK with everything while I am in pure torment.
He said at that time most of the time I thought we were over but there were moments of Clarity when I would think what the hell is going on.
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Since we reconciled, let me tell you what my husband has told me. While he was in the worst of his MLC, he didn't trust anybody, least of all ME. He was convinced that I was the PROBLEM, that the only way forward for him was to take care of his HAPPINESS. His happiness was the only thing that mattered to him,
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I asked my brother-in-law who returned home after two years:
"Did you miss my sister when you were gone? Did you even think about her?”
"Non stop ALL the time. My head was swinging wildly. I never stopped thinking of her."
“Why did you leave?”
"I couldn't stand the way she spoke to me. The other woman was nicer."
"Why'd you come back?"
"Because I couldn't stop picturing her and the kids' faces when I closed my eyes. Plus, I didn't want her to be with someone else."
"Why two years?"
"That's how long it took for me to be tortured enough to finally figure it out."
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He says now, he cannot fathom why he behaved the way he did, it was like he was insane and he feels that in fact he had a breakdown.
He cant really explain what happened or why, he says he literally cant put his mind into his mind as it was then and understand his behaviour or choices.
Each day that he reflects back on that horrid time, he sees it differently: he admits that he didn't care at all for how i felt or the children. His mind would not even entertain the thought that we were hurt. He was "frantic" he needed to "change".
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I just became very 'at odds' with the differences between whom I saw in the mirror and how I felt inside. confused As if they were two separate people...finally the mirror image and my inside person seem to be becoming one at last!
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There were times the old husband made an appearance and I got the occasional nice message or call but most of the time he pushed me away as hard as he could. He said seeing me was "too hard" so he wasn't even willing to be friends.
I know he suffered, I observed that, but I also suffered and in a sense I feel like he slept through it. The crisis severed our bond to the point where at times I could be sitting right next to him and I felt like there was no one in the room with me.
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I am a MH nurse who has also had three episodes of very serious depression.
It's an illness which completely alters your view of yourself, other people and the world. It is an illness which alters your perception to such a degree that you act in ways which are difficult to understand and so removed from your usual personality and character.
When I was very ill I genuinely believed that I was an awful, awful person who had a terrible life and who no-one could possibly love and that everyone would be better off without.
I cut myself off from anyone who cared about me because I either believed they were just pretending to care or in the case of my parents, sibling and boyfriend - I believed they loved me but I didn't deserve that love because I was a complete b*stard and I was just bringing them down and ruining their lives. When forced to see or speak to people I was so irritable and so resentful that they just wouldn't leave me the Funk alone that I was horrible at times and said things that were completely untrue but which I believed at the time. Classic depressive thinking.
IF that was what he was going through and thinking then it wasn't a mid - life crisis, it was a very ill man.
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My h is just now able to articulate a feeling of "needing to abandon", that drove him from our home and kept him in the OW mess. He explains it just that way--a feeling that he had to leave. It didn't make sense to him but it was a deep drive that felt real at the time and kept him in a constant state of confusion. ___________________________________________________________________________
My husband does not have a reliable memory of any of this....crazy. He has told the therapists over and over and over , about this "cord or rope " that runs between us and he was very very aware of this rope. Odd... because that means he thought of me often. It will never be understandable to me. I am just trying to find a way to accept . I also would add that my husband is he 'poster child" for compartmentalization "boxes"... although he calls them "drawers". No 2 "drawers" are open at the same time. We have been told it is a common brain fuction for men , especially for dealing with ways to simply "survive" life.
My husband calls it compartmentalization ( after a million hours with a shrink) . He never thought of me when he was with her . ( I feel anxiety in my stomach just remembering it all ) Women cannot imagine how this happens .. but it is true . My husband has used "compartmentalization " all his life.. just to survive his childhood . It is so foreign to us, so inhuman , beyond our ability to comprehend how this could ever ever happen.. but it does .My husband said that no matter what I said " it was turned into an angry negative instantly in his brain". He felt ZERO ZERO emotional connection to me or his kids , his family , his job, committments .. nothing . He was empty . He only felt anger and negative input etc . He says , he felt ZERO emotional connection to the OW .. he was not capable .
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My D24 had had depression for many years and she doesn't remember half of the antics she engaged in - she knew at the time what she was doing was wrong but memory becomes extremely distorted in depression.
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I was OUT OF MY MIND. Several times I talked to H about me moving out (like I could move then???), I brought up divorce once, and I really withdrew from H. I also became depressed, mean, and in my own way smug.
My point is that while in crisis, I felt possessed with anger. Anger about my health, my body's betrayal of me, and anger that surged up from my childhood.
I felt like brain cells were firing that were not connected to other brain cells. I felt numb, frozen, and I did not realize the gravity of the things I was saying and doing. I did not realize how hurtful I was being to H. I didn't realize how different I was acting from the person I had been prior to my crisis.
I was in total survival mode. It was like I did not want to hurt him, but it was him or me and if I had to hurt him to escape my pain, then I just had to.
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H said before we went to see a pastor Sunday that when he looks back at the "rubbish" he did, it felt like he was "possessed". Interestingly, H took it to mean "mental illness" as well as " spiritual possession", it was to him like being 'split-self' because he still could feel it was 'wrong' as in 'learned morality' but it 'felt good' as in 'primal instinct', unfortunately primal instinct won.
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"you got tired of being "different" .. but really you had something meaningful that they didn't .. " I think you hit it right on the nail. To be honest yes I wanted to the "the" guy. In a way live the charlie sheen lifestyle and looking back its stupid but at the time it was appealing. I wanted to party I wanted to enjoy life. I found it was empty, shallow, artificial, it was only temporary. It wasn't fullfilling. It was like eating a big delicious pizza. In the moment you're eating it, it taste so damn good. Once you're done you feel full, your stomach hurts, you feel disgusted, and you ate a $h!te load of calories and messed up your diet and doing long term damage for a short term satisfaction. I see that now. Im not saying im perfect, no. Not at all, far from it. What I'm saying is I see my mistakes, I see what I did wrong, or at least most of them and I really want to be a better person.
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I was just talking to a friend last night that self-admittedly went through a MLC years ago. He said he sunk into a deep depression and went cuckoo. He's told me repeatedly that someone in depression will refuse listening to anyone telling them that they are in a depression. People don't want to face their own demons. If anything, by telling someone they are depressed, the person will fight the idea even more.
So I asked him what made him snap out of it. He said he's really not sure, but he thinks it was because one day he was wallowing and he realized that there truly was nobody else to blame anymore. He was alone, and there was no attention for his depression, and he thinks that what made him realized that the problem was his and his alone.
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my W would talk about how her head was messed up and she didn't know why. She describes it as "I knew that I shouldn't be doing what I was doing and I knew what I should have been doing, but for some reason I continued to do it anyway. I couldn't stop myself."
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He began to talk and said that he had been having these issues come to the forefront of his mind that he could no longer ignore.
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He used to be an outgoing character and he was now looking in the mirror and barely recognised himself. He had been supressing his feelings of hurt for so long and he had turned himself inward and they were eating away at him. He said that he was someone who always went with other people's flow and just accepted things and never felt that even when he spoke others took any notice so he stopped bothering. He said he felt quite angry at that but he'd been doing it so long he didn't know how to change it. He didn't elaborate but he said that there were issues coming inside his head that he hadn't even thought about for 20 years and he couldn't understand why they were in his head now, but he felt an urgency to do something about it.
. I asked if he felt pressured by them and he said yes. Even his dog needing a walk felt like pressure because he couldn't find the will to do it.
I asked him if he felt guilty about his family friends etc, even the dog and he said to me. I can't believe that you seem to understand all that's going on in my head. He said he felt shameful of the fact that he could cry at any second and that he couldn't deal with his personal issues in the logical
way he deals with everything else
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My ExH got lost -- very lost in the fog of midlife crisis. He took a sledgehammer to every good thing in his life: his career, his finances, his reputation, his friendships, his health, and his marriage. In short, he blew up his life -- chasing after the "greener grass" he suddenly thought was out there.
Five years later, the fog has lifted and he's stunned at what he did. He can't explain it, other than to say he "went insane."
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It is no secret that I had a mid-life crisis fueled by depression, which was caused by my own feelings of inadequacy and feeling non-important. It is also no secret that I am the sole cause of my issues. I did not have the coping tools I needed in order to recognize something missing in myself, that needed to be addressed and worked through. I never felt good enough, and my self-taught coping mechanism was to be very outgoing, ignore conflict and to avoid confrontation. This way, everyone would like me.
Not being able to cope with conflict and avoid confrontation allowed me to put up a wall around my feelings that no one knew about. I pretended to be happy and content and before I knew it, the years passed by .
In January 2011, I was ripe for the affair and I chose to allow it. I allowed someone else to make me feel good without giving my W a chance.
I read a newsletter today from John Folk-Williams. The Storied Mind Newsletter, Newsletter #29, "Depressed Partners Who Blame and Leave". In it, he reviews five types of depressive behavior from Angry and Abusive to Numb. I recognized myself in every single one of them last year and I still feel angry at times that I allowed myself to make the decision I did and live a double life for eight months.
I left my w, at first, it was emotionally and then very briefly it was physically. I am very lucky that she was able to recognize that something was not right with me and allowed me to recognize on my own, some time in August, that I was not fair to her and did not give her the chance she was asking for to make our marriage better and whole.
John mentioned in his article that it takes time to recognize and challenge the stories that we tell ourselves and my w gave me that time..
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H states that RCR's information on Midlifers as written above is SPOT ON. He really has trouble remembering things from last year (lucky him) and he does try so he can help me in my healing, but honestly they are blank. (Drives me nuts :).) He also states that the strobe light reference is true. Last year he was like a horse with blinders on doing only what he wanted to do . . . he didn't care nor think about anyone but himself. If it fit his needs, he did it. However, there were times when he felt like a strobe light would go off and he could see clearly. They didn't happen often, but when it did he knew something was wrong. Eventually the moments of clarity happened more regularly. Now he does not remember what he did, but he does remember that I was there for him and never left. He also stated he does not remember it being fun, (I told him that I often view his replay as his fun time), but he sees it as something that happened 100 years ago and a horrible history lesson. He also cannot believe what he did. The remorse comes eventually. So good news is there is no fun, love or happy times associated with replay . . . eventually. He did state that he must of been having fun or it must have been his definition of fun at the time, but that he cannot comprehend it anymore. I hope this brings someone some hope and the necessary information they need to keep standing. As many say (I think it was RY) standing ain't for sissies. :)
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We talked a lot this weekend about depression and replay. He told me it was a stimulant that he was constantly looking for like a high of sorts. He also said it didn't matter if it was a good stimulant (i.e. sex, ow) or bad stimulant (fights with OW, me, the kids), he needed the adrenaline high. It really made me see why the monstering part was so volatile . . . he needed his fix. He also explained how when he knew the ADs were working and his brain would clear and he could think
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As my H tells me, it was like a tornado in his head. Constant noise and he just wanted to block it out with OW, work, booze, anything but me and then sometimes me. Acting as if and giving him space, no texting or calling and no questions at the point at all. Texting him to talk is all pursuit and pursuit means pressure.
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, he said, "The reason for me that weeks'd go by where I wasn't feeling to bad about things was because I was f*ckin MANIC, and to keep myself manic meant the pain would stay away. I always knew it was there and if I was not in a constant state of motion and action and drugs and drinking and women and parties I felt the pain. While high, however I did it, I didn't feel the pain and the squirrels in my head quit spinning me in giant circles, confusing me. That was where the pleasure came in that cost me my soul. And I had to crank it up farther and farther to keep the bad thoughts out."
. Any recovering addict will tell you that you may start out getting pleasure from something (but then the monkey is on your back). You only need the pleasure cuz your covering over a hole in you where the pain is. This sorta pleasure that is. (The rest of the time the things that brought you pleasure before don't cuz they are not enough to get by the anhedonia crap. Just not enough stimulation.) "And you know why this guy kept doing those things? It wasn't cuz he got pleasure, it was an addict has to do them to maintain. Your always chasing the next high. Avoiding the crash. And ya need more and more just to maintain. It's not fun anymore. It is a 'has to do just to get by'."
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True in our case anyway. H is home, and being a physician is fully aware that this is what he went through (perhaps still going through to some extent, but not in "crisis" mode.)
Every so often, if it comes up, i might bring up something he said or did during that nightmarish time, and he is stunned. He believes he said and did it, so he doesn't deny it...but it's as if "another person" did it. He accepts responsibility however, even if that was a severe depressive episode. He insists that his brain is different now...he can't explain it, but there was something wrong he said, on how he "thought". He didn't care or have feelings for anyone he said. He had no empathy and it didn't occur to him that his family was hurt. He said he hated himself and therefore me. He was frantic for change.
The basis for how he got into that mess he is still working on....he knows. How his self-worth or happiness is dependent on the wrong things...etc. he sees me and him as one person or sometimes Interesting how just "knowing" gave him power against this thing. I thought it might be interesting to study this from an MLCer who is looking back on the destruction he caused.
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In my case, through the initial period of deep MLC which manifested outwardly between March '02 & March '04, I'd spun such brilliant BS that everyone thought I was right to want a separation/divorce. In March '04, my husband left for the second time. I'd gotten rid of om before that but was still trying to live it up. I was crashing hard and fairly regularly. I still managed for another year to outrun reality though it did creep in occasionally. My husband stopped fighting for me when he left the second time. That was the biggest jolt. It was good to have that pressure off for awhile though. By summer 2005, I was coming apart at the seams. Completely. I'd exhausted myself with the things of the world that had enticed me, I was looking at families and missing my own. For the first time, I started to see that there had been good times. I had REALLY forgotten them. There are still times as recently as a week ago that I'll remember something and mention it to my husband and he'll look at me as if to say "did you JUST remember/realize that?" and if I were to answer, I'd say yes. MLC stole a big chunk of the good things about my marriage. It seems I get them back a little at a time. But I FORGOT. I did not see us as my husband saw us.
So you (husbands of MLC wives) really are holding something precious that no one else has; you're holding the real truth about your lives together. You're the only one that's going to understand her when she comes back. You're all that's going to be familiar and if you're not there...
Anyway after a while, I started seeing how I had contributed to the bad times. By October 2005 I was completely broken and flat on my face in repentance. Thinking of it still makes me cry.
I was a mean MLCer.
I convinced myself and everyone around me that my husband was the biggest SOB that ever walked. I BELIEVED it. I twisted every argument we'd ever had but ESPECIALLY as he fought me THEN.
I had all my family in support of my efforts.
Eventually, and it took a long time, I convinced my husband we were really through.
He stood for over 2 years, though.
Alone.
Without a message board or a clue about MLC.
He just believed in me and in us.
It seemed when in order to save his own sanity he had to let go I started waking up.
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As for me being in MLC was sort of like marbles rolling around in my head and maybe even my heart. It was a dull pain, I cried alot so I justfied my behavior by being mean and using other people's niceness to me as their weakness and took advantage. I often thought that running away was the answer. If only I could get away from all of these nagging people who had made my life so miserable all of this time. CRAZY.
It did not feel "Bag Ladyish" to me but felt heavy. That is the only way to describe it. HEAVY. You are not in your right mind at all and you feel justified.
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H expressed that he remembered saying he was "two people and was now neither one of them". He said it surprised him too. That it was a coherent thought and felt "right". It was also why he found it so hard to explain the thought processes that lead to so many bad decisions/choices. He just didn't think the same way any more.
Thoughts didn't touch each other. There was no side by side comparison of the two things I was doing. That's why it felt schizoid." I things were wrong as I was saying them. It was so weird. An "out of body" experience."
I didn't have the tools nor the strength to get free."
"As hard as I tried not to think of you and DS you guys would pop into my head when I would least expect it. I tried to be mean, not give you false hope, run away, do the "rubbish" things I did but you were still there. You didn't act the way I thought you would, which is kick me to the curb, and I missed you. I missed DS and I missed me, too."
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H said his memory was very disjointed. He remembered an event but not when it was and was looking at himself and thinking that events were compressed and then expanded but found it very hard to put himself back in the mindset of the time of the event. "looking back, it does seem ridiculous to feel what I felt but I was just going along with things because I was running away. I can't tell you what I was thinking because looking back now, it was obvious I wasn't thinking at all,right?"
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I know it sounds like I made a choice, alright many choices, bad choices but it wasn't like that. I was just pressured from all sides and I knew it was wrong but i couldn't, ok wouldn't, didnt stop, then it got tangled and all I could do was want out of the situation but I was in a deep deep hole and I kept digging because I knew more and more clearly nearer the end that if you found out, (that H didn't stop with OW), it would be catastrophic and you would stop loving me."
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" because of the urge to "just run and keep running" while still feeling a "pull" back to me and DS and "I am not a stupid man but I don't know why I was doing such bizarre things, it was like I was intoxicated
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You know I was in a bad place when I did that rubbish right? You think I was happy and having fun but it wasn't. It couldn't be because the whole thing was rotten. Rotten to the core. Rotten at the core. When you are that low anything is better than feeling that low, so it was like a drug, an intoxication and there was always the hangover of guilt. Sure I suppressed it to carry on, to lead that double life but it wasn't even much of a life was it? The highs aren't really highs it's just better than being that low."
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Just this past month, H has slowly added that if he "could have faced his demons/ issues" things wouldn't have escalated with the OW. He felt unheard, unable to win an argument compounded by the fact that what he did was " cowardly" and that "lying was part of the cowardice". He just wanted to please everyone and let resentment build. one of the things H said stands out for me, " by trying to please everyone, I gave my power away.
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When he was deep in the tunnel, he "forgot me", put me [his old life]in a box/compartmentalised, only to be taken out when trying to maintain the "other part of his dual life"
I believe the dissociative thought processes that enabled H to lead a dual life is why "much is forgotten when they exit the tunnel".
"I could have a thought then it would be gone"
"I could feel the wrongness at the time and your hurt but it could not be linked mentally at all to anything else that was happening in the other box"
"I heard you but it didn't register as applying to the other box"
"It was like I had certain brain cells firing but they would be unconnected to the other brain cells"
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I had been feeling that I had done something very wrong for months leading up to our reconciliation and had started working on myself thru better diet, exercise, re-connecting with friends & family, etc.
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I believe I also had an MLC, though there was no infidelity (I was a wallower). I don't know if the symptoms are the same for men as for women. I experienced foggy and/or racing/swimming thinking that made it hard for me to make rational plans or get through a day.
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I experienced foggy thinking, irrational behaviour, crazy thinking and a lot of anger. Previous to my MLC I was well organized, financially responsible and generally very happy and outgoing. While I was in the thick of it, I let things slide even forgetting to pay bills on time. Surprisingly my work did not suffer (I was actually promoted during this period) and I became a workaholic throwing myself into my job as a result. I remember listening to a song called "The Tears Of A Clown" by Smokey Robinson and thinking "this is my aha moment" as I finally recognized my depression. While I was living with OW I lost all touch with friends and family, except my brother, who was going through his own crisis which continues to this day, he was my only cheerleader - crazy!
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During the crisis I convinced myself that my W was humdrum and unadventurous and that our relationship had grown stagnant (all ludicrous of course) all the while getting my ego stroked by the OW. I definitely can look back on this now to see just how manipulative OW was. Gosh no one in their right mind would have fallen for this malarkey.
I was not thinking straight during the affair. I experienced false highs (which I can now attribute to the infatuation combined with drinking), followed by feelings of depression (which was something new for me). I coped with the lows by drinking too much while I was with OW as a form of distraction and avoidance of the damage I was causing.
Some part of me knew that this was not love, even though I repeatedly told my W that was I "in love" with OW. I chalk it up to infatuation, but honestly most of the time, after the initial big high had worn off, I actually found her downright annoying and immature.
Now that I understand how infatuation hormones work it makes total sense to me.
My love for my W never faltered, I would often email her & text just to tell her how much I loved her, so I didn't experience any falling out of love with her.
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The Fog - a false impression that "the grass is greener" - ah NO, it's not. As they say "the grass isn't always greener on the other side - it's greener where you water it" - I took a new job prior to my MLC, a big promotion - and lost total sight of who I was and how important my marriage was, I was on a roller coaster ride of self importance and as soon as someone like the OW started obsessing over me I bite the proverbial hook - dumb dumb dumb.
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Guilt - I felt a lot (while I was thick in the fog), so my answer to this was to have a glass of wine to forget about it (don't recommend this behaviour). When I was honest with myself (I stunted this emotion) I felt truly terrible to hurt the person that I was closest to in the world.
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The final and most severe rock bottom ever was felt at the very end of the affair, I was a total emotional wreck, I knew I needed to leave OW and get my health and my life back in order. I was longing for my life partner back.I was an emotional train wreck. I was not sleeping so I was perpetually tired, I was having headaches, I had a red rash on my face, heart palpitations, weight gain - I just felt horrible - that was my "health" side of rock bottom. I felt Lonely, helpless, devastated. , I was ridden with shame at how I could disrespect the one I loved the most.
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As recently as two weeks ago, my husband brought up something that occured during my MLC and I absolutely do not recall acting the way he says I acted. It's not that we have "selective" memory. It's that there is so much that is going on in our heads during MLC, often some of the most traumatic and/or emotional things get pushed deep into our subconscious. I have looked at my husband a few times in the past 3 or 4 months and apologized right in the middle of a conversation about the past because I didn't remember it when I came out of the tunnel so I never really apologized for those particular things because I didnt recall them AT ALL. It stops me in my tracks to find out these "new" things from his point of view that I did back then and I don't know how long this will last. Will I still be being reminded of things 2 or 3 years from now in the middle of conversations? Fact is, it is very possible.
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We were in the grocery store last spring, grabbing a bag of cat food. We started arguing about which to get since we were just getting an "emergency bag" until we got to the pet store for our normal brand, and I was arguing against one particular kind because I knew our cat J wouldn't eat it. It was halfway into the argument before I realized J had died several months earlier. I know he was euthanized at our vet and that I was holding him, and I see where he's buried in my backyard every day, but no memories still to this day surrounding his passing. It's like he was here, and now he is gone.
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There are a few things you have yet to grasp about MLC.
1) We (the MLCer) will comb through every aspect of the past to get a handful of "reasons" we will tell YOU that it is over and should have been back then.
2) Whatever the MLCer says, he or she really means it WHEN THEY ARE SAYING IT.
3) Neither of the above will apply on the other side of the tunnel. Half of it won't even be remembered at all.
But as long as your husband is in MLC (and I really believe he is) he's not reliable, his memory is not reliable, his entire view of the future is not reliable. Nothing he says, feels or does while in MLC will be the same once he is out. The only thing that will be the same are the bruises and scars YOU carry because of all he has done.
There's a wall going up around your heart now.
It's going to get higher.
That is not necessarily a bad thing under these circumstances. The layers will peel away when the time comes to rebuild, if YOU choose to do so.
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I would not really know what to talk about otherwise. MLC for me was a living hell that was punctuated by the height of selfishness. I felt like a child at times, I could not formulate my thoughts into cohesive sentences to speak to my wife. If something about her bothered me it become huge in my mind and at least to me so sensitive that to talk about it with her would be downright impossible.
I kept secrets because it felt like "They were mine" all mine and I did not have to share them with anyone.
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I regretted everything I did and felt all the pain I caused. It was hard to overcome that hurt and to try to make amends. I wanted to tell my W how sorry I was and tried but she was well on her way into MLC and did not want to hear me. She still does not and it still hurts. Maybe that is why I keep ripping the scab off my healing wounds and can't seem to detach the way I should
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the pain is all mental, for me it started with not wanting to do ANY of the things I always liked to do. Nothing brought me any sense of comfort or relaxation. It was very much like a serious depression with all the symptoms of it. But it went further then that as it progressed into the fog state where I was walking around in perpetual confusion and would forget the simplest things. I also did not sleep well and began to have the feeling of not being able to feel at ease. RCR described MLC as a state of Dis-Ease not Disease. I find that to be the most descriptive way to say it, I was always feeling dis-ease or the lack of ease. No matter what anyone did or said I could not feel at ease within my own skin.
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Yes I to had to battle the memories of times past during that time. I was forced to look back at my own life and was somehow made to look at events from a different perspective then the one I had known. Mopst of the time it was very uncomfortable and showed me things about myself that I either hated, was embarassed about or most definitely wanted to change (or hide) about my personality. It also showed me aspects of my relationship that were terribly uncomfortable. It was driving me slowly insane and by lashing out at those around me I was able for the moment to stop the flood of images going through my mind. It was an insane answer to an insane problem. I was also seeing a phychiatrist and was taking AD's. None of that mattered.
The things my W says on FB are sometimes hurtful but I temper that with the memory of how I felt towards her. I know now she is not deliberately trying to harm me and is not capable of being empathetic towards me, so she cannot feel my pain or happiness.Yet she is still here which means she has not been able to detach from me. This then means I still have a chance to show her changes instead of talking about them. In my W's case I feel this will have a great impact on her ability to process and find her way out of the tunnel. So yes I do feel like what I do matters a great deal at this juncture. Do nothing and I will be divorced within a couple of months, do something and perhaps it will put a break in her armor long enough for her own emotions to crash in around her sweeping her from the exit of her tunnel and into the light, the painful hurt filled light that she has to use to do mirror work on herself.
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H said he had absolutely no empathy for anyone during that time. People had no feelings and were like "things" to him. Burdens, numbers, impersonal objects. More things that "trapped" him in his hateful job and him getting older and relatives dying around him. OW offered an escape. She could have been anything: drugs, a sailboat or a brand new car. She also was an object. Eventually, H had to get to the core issues of his MLC.
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H had left her had OW but denied for 12 months then she found out. He stayed with OW for 6 more months and then the " Turmoil inside my head" woke him up and he told OW he made a huge mistake and needed to go home.
They went to MC and he now kisses the ground she walks on. He said to me "When I was in that tunel I was so crazed. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't care. Finally I just got to missing your sister and her grace and dignity." He told me that he would look at the OW after a while and think"MY W is so much better than this. Why am I here.'
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Just wanted to add something about H's seeming ( I can't wrap my head around it still-- may be I can but emotionally I can't accept that--for now) inability to make a decision either way -divorce and merge properly with the OW or purge the OW and come back still vexes me. H tries to explain it as inertia and confusion and a " grey mist decending" every time and he had to keep running. Running took so much energy H didn't have the strength to make a decision
It was just easier to maintain the "status quo".
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H said something really interesting about "being in a dark place/a bad place." but that depression wasn't feeling low all the time. It had high phases, and the lows just seem lower and the highs weren't as high. It just kept on (with OW) after the first "outing" in the hopes of getting that initial feeling back. h called it "chasing the dragon". He also said that on some level, he knew it was wrong and i didn't deserve the "rubbish". And he still really hasn't worked out what the "dragon" is
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H felt, looking back, it wasn't really dreamlike but out of synch. He described it as "looking at a picture that had been sliced in half and put back together but slightly out of line." He said he was making decisions at the time, but based on that misaligned picture, so the decisions were "cock-eyed" to say the least. :( :o
I tried to discuss further, what actions or inactions by me affected him at this time as he continued after the first call from Parasite. He said that at that point, what I said or didn't say he was still fuzzy/foggy about because there was a whole wall of negativity/justification that had taken time to build to enable him "to do what I did but it wasn't you, it was me and I couldn't face it." " I couldn't deny it but I couldn't face it."
" I don't know why but I had somehow convinced myself you would file. The longer you didn't, the more confused I got. I know all the things we discussed about the waiting period till Easter but it didn't register. I just felt as time went on how it felt more and more wrong, what I was doing but I didn't know how to get out of it. Because I knew it had to all come out. That I hadn't stopped. So how could I get out of the situation without telling you because that would be wrong. I couldn't not tell you but to tell you would mean you might not want me back."
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When I broached the subject of what I did or didn't do that affected him, H said it was not an " all at once" thing. Most things were "buried deep" , H didn't know whether it was subconscious but my actions (hugs, willingness to tell him I wouldn't give up on him, that he was lovable) confused him but it did make him think when he had quiet moments and that gave him somewhere to start. He started to want to be back, he didn't know whether I would take him back but he had to try, he wanted to try.
I asked what if I had just left him his space "without the communication" till the end of the status quo period at Easter. He said it was important to have had that communication, to have some form "whether a text or call or letter" because without it he would have run, left everything -- job, family, disappeared and " destroyed himself in the running". "To know you were there, even though I was being a sh1t and you didn't how big a sh1t, helped me not disappear."
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Here's my take as a former recovered MLCer badass...
We touch and go because we are attracted to comforting beacon from the Lighthouse that shines through the darkness. Then it becomes too much for us and we retreat. Remember our coping skills are broken and it takes a long time to get our chit together.
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My XW certainly noticed that I was spending a lot of time with this OW and objected to it. But, silly me, I was having none of it! My depression and silly mind wanted OUT. When I came home from work on my XW's birthday.......I dropped the bomb on her birthday! I had no empathy or feeling whatsoever. Did all the silly MLC stuff....going out at all hours, coming home when I wanted to....sleeping on the edge of the bed...hogging my cell phone/pager...talking and texting my OW alllll the time. My fog really thickened from the bomb dropping until it cleared out sometime around about 10 months later. I was a menace!
I recall when the fog lifted from my brain. It was a lot similar to the Claritin commercials you see on tv. Bingo! The fog seemed to peel off on its own and the clarity was shocking to me. I recall asking..."What happened here? Where have I been?" When the fog went away, I could feel myself again.
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He told me it terrified him when he thought about it and how he couldn't believe he became that man. He told me, when he looks into that, it is like looking into a black hole and it terrifies him. Half asleep I muttered, ah honey, $hit happens! He angrily retorted, that sort of $hit shouldn't have happened, that should never have been done to you. I then muttered something like, well you were sick honey, it's not like you did it intentionally. He said... "oh yes I did... at the time it was VERY deliberate! How could I do that to you, you were always a great wife, you were always there for me, followed me wherever I went, made our house a home, always loved me. Even when I was living with OW, I knew you LOVED ME... totally! How could I do that to you? Why did I do that to you? I didn't say anything more HB, I simply hugged him close, snuggled down and went to sleep.... strangely content.
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I have a friend whose H went through MLC and came home. She asked him why he was more worried about the OW and her manipulative threats and stayed with her much longer than he wanted to. He said that when he looked around him at the mess she (his W) appeared much stronger than OW who remained needy and helpless! Therefore he felt more responsible for her because of the promises he made. My friend did point out her side!!!!!!!!! But her H saw her as strong and determined even though I saw the emotional trauma we all have. Even though her H desperately wanted to come home the responsibility to OW kept pulling him back. All this only became apparent after he returned and they started talking.
The MLC brain is so foggy they don't deal with reality as we see it and that's why the OW is able to hold on longer than is healthy.
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Thanks 1t,
Just reading this stuff is scary. How they don't realize what they are doing while in this crisis.
I'd love to ask my X if he sees how strange his way of thinking was, but I'm not going to go there unless he brings it up. :o
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This is basically the 5th version of this thread, I added the previous one's links to the first post.
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Thunder,
Glad you found this useful, I had this in all different places and put it all together for Nassua and then decided to put it up for all to read.
I must admit when I put everything together its far more powerful and there are the same things being said, even if they are articulated in a different way.
I hope it helps others, (as it has helped me) realise this is a condition almost a primeval response in some ways
Hopefully others who have info, those who have reconnected or are connecting can keep adding...
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I actually know first hand what this sort of depression is about. I mention in "My Story" that I went through my own deep, transitioning depression that destroyed my first marriage. I had a stillborn son (it was to be my first child) at 8 months. This trauma put me into a deep depression that I covertly acted out. I couldn't feel anything at all and suffered what I believe to be anhedonia for two years. I wasn't classically depressed, I was NUMB. I woke up one morning and had no feelings for my h at the time. I knew I was in trouble. I tried hiding it for a while hoping that my feelings for him would return and that I would feel some sort of joy again for life. But after about a year I started to accept the idea that I was never going to love him again and that it was best for every one involved that I simply, leave. And that's what I did. I couldn't take hurting him any longer and believed that he would be much better off with a woman who could make him happy, because it was way too much pressure on me to keep working, hoping and trying to be that woman.
Fast forward many many many years later. (Actually, it took about five years for me to say WTF did I do?) Had I gotten more information about what I was going through, maybe I would have found another option other than leaving my husband. Maybe I could have understood that rather than leaving him, I needed to work through painful issues in my own under-development that could possibly 1) keep us together (although my desire to flee was overwhelming), and 2) help me rid myself of the numbing depression that TRASHED everything good.
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Thunder,
I went through it and I can tell you that I KNEW how strange, damaging and reckless my behavior was. I was being cruel and unusual and I could feel every bit of it. Of course I consider myself a pretty self-aware, emotionally intelligent person, so maybe I had an advantage, but all that sure didn't stop my depression from ruining my marriage. But yes, I knew I was being eff'ed up.
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sewing thank you for sharing that.
So very sad what depression can do. :-\
Did you ever talk to your X afterwards?
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We have a D together and parent 50/50 so we see each other every day and live just a few blocks from each other. So in a sense, we never broke up, so all the breaking up was for absolutely nothing!!
After I left I talked to him about a year later and told him that none of this was his fault, that I was so depressed that I couldn't see straight. It was still too raw so I don't think he could really receive it. I still was in no shape to get back together with him at that point, however. Fast forward to a year ago, we had a therapy session together because co-parenting with him became so difficult that he couldn't speak to me without showing lots of anger, which started to affect our D. In the session I told him that he was the greatest h, that he was honest, caring and took care of me, so to speak for two years while I wallowed on the couch, unbeknowst to me (because I thought I was "acting" normal), unable to cook or clean for a full two years. During these two years we had our D, so the only thing I did was go to work and took care of her. He NEVER complained once, not once and took over all of the house cleaning, the cooking and TOOK MY $h!te in general. I told him that not every man could have done this and that I hope and pray that one day our D marries a man just like him. I also told him that he needed to know that I regret what happened and that there will always be a part of me that HATES what the depression stole from me--it stole my family.
Funny thing Karma. Here I am some years later on H2 and I am now on the other side of it--can't help but to think, what goes around, comes around. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Thanks for posting all those impressions of their MLC. Lots of food for thought in that list.
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sewing,
NO, don't think like that. You did not choose depression. It chose you.
You are not getting punished for it. I don't think God is that vindictive.
He has another plan for you, you just don't know what that is yet. Be patient.
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Awwww, thanks so much Thunder!! What I should say is that the guilt the depressed, checked-out spouse feels is overwhelming and I don't think we truly ever get rid of it 100%. I have forgiven myself as of last year, but there will always be a residue of regret over hurting someone who loved you and breaking a part your family. And that's just the truth!! Its just something I live with.
Thx again!
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Wow thank you for so much for that post. Very eye opening indeed.
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Wow gives me some hope not sure how long my journey will be but I still have faith that my H will come back to me. I will stand for as long as I can. I am moving forward without him but I can't give up on him.
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1t, thank you SO much for this thread!
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I agree. It's very helpful to read these things.
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Im devastated, but after reading what your H said, i just cant stop laughing and feeing angry at the same!! The frustration is real. 😳😭😂
I think we've all heard these at one point or another, but for the newbies I will throw the strangest one I got right after BD. He said he had to leave "Because the dog is too fat."
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Right after h moved out we had this conversation:
me: What would it take for us to get back together?
h: Me to not be me.
me: Why do you want a divorce.
h: I am too fragile to talk about it but we will get through this and both be better people for it.
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Mine said something so similar, that "We will come out of this the people we were meant to be." Unless he meant drunken redneck, I'm sure he's not "out of this" yet. ;)
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Me too - wait and see, we will be in a better place. My response - you have what people spend their lives dreaming about, and you are throwing it away.