Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: barbiedoll on March 19, 2015, 09:38:10 AM
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I have gone over and over and over the incredible insanity of where this all started . All this sorrow, all this pain , gut wrenching grief for a moment of going with a decision that permanently changes so many lives. Forever. My husband has been a faithfull , loyal , moral husband since he was 22 . He is now 57 . He was the most trusted human being in my life and NEVER did I believe he would involve himself with another women. When I 1st found Heros Spouse , I deleted it . It made me angry when I read affairs are likely. I thought it was no place for me because he was different . This will make me cry.. I can feel the emotion , just rememberring . He went out one day to help our son-in-law re-shingle his roof . He missed a days work to do this and I was extremely shocked . It was the 1st time EVER that he missed work since I have known him ... so it was very odd behavior. But off he went . They shingled all day ..I saw that he had a very important opportunity to "show off ".. to show he "still had it ". He carried shingles slung over his shoulder up 2 floors and was delighted to impress the young men with his strength and agility . He soaked up thier amazement. Shirtless he worked like he was 30 years old . I had seen this need for validation or admiration from younger men before . He was proving he was still the "man to beat ". He shingled for 12 hours. The son-in -law then took him for supper as repayment . So they showerred up and he called me to say he was going to grab a burger and would be home . So, they went to local Roadhouse / bar and had a beer and supper and he is all "macho'd up " . The "OW " is there . We have known her for ever .. since she was 14 , and her mother lost control of her then . I was friends with her mother . The OW is 48 and she has cut family's hair for over 30 years ... including my husband . She came to thier table and hugged my husband from behind. My son-in-law has told me with great drama .. " she utterly sent a chill up my back.. gave me the creeps . He could see what she was made of, like a radar men have to spot a "women in heat " . ( his words) . She had a new phone and acted like a true `dumsel`asking my husband to show her how tho work it.. especially how to enter phone numbers etc. So, the big hero shows her all about her new phone . He put his phone number in her phone ( she already our home number at her shop ) to show her how to do it and they text back and forth in the bar . No big deal says my husband .. never thought a thing about it . He left the bar around 10 and on his way home , she texted him ... she said .. GO HOME BIG BOY " . And that was it . That was the start of the disintigration of my life and my marriage . He text her back and suddenly he feels .. she likes him , she is interested , she made him feel special and admired .. over a phone. She touched him repeatedly , rubbed his shoulder , smiled and just was all taken in by big strong smart him. He noticed .. so did my son in law but in a pueky way . Anyway, the next day , on his way home from work , he texted her and said he wanted to see her ( he has no explantion for this horrific decision ).. he just did . She told him to drop by and within 29 minutes they are in bed and life on earth as I knew it was over . I told him that I truly hope that it was the best orgasm he ever had ... because many people have been emotionally slaughtered by a man , a zipper and a wh*re . And from there it continued from April ( maybe March ) until November . I found out who it was 1 week prior to him coming home . 1 week. All summer she mixed with family , asking questions about me and my husband to my girls etc . The most evil betrayal of a sociopath. I still relive the shock. A double betrayal guts you. Just like that .. 2 people can slap there genitals together , enter a very powerfull fantasy addiction and all sense , honor, integrity and committment is gone . And of course .. the horrific monster that I was forced to live with while he is infatuated with a grade 10 hairdresser , on probation and convicted of assault , 2 marriages under her belt , a drinker , 2 incredibly dysfuctional sons ( 1 in a permanent home for brain injury from drugs , the other in and out of jail), a long history with bulemia , and will sleep with anything with blood running thru it . He knew all this about her . But , what is done is done . He and I were in Las Vegas 3 weeks prior to this affair starting and all was well. I guess not . This is the start of the voyage for me , as a result of a decision HE MADE . He still cannot explain WHY . A trigger . This is how LBS happen . Sometimes I think his affair, started his midlife crisis , not the other way around . He denies this, says he had already "decided " the marriage was over . Another secret he did not mention. Two weeks in Las Vegas with a man who has decided his marriage is over and I do not even notice? Who was I with?. He has skill as an actor and Hollywood is looking for him ... or Jerry Springer . Anybody know how their husbands affair started .. I would like to know . Not sure anyone can beat the stupidity of my desperate HERO.
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Oh, Barbie. :( How ridiculous. Certainly no one wants to hear it's a big romance that was very meaningful or important, but there's a certain sting in knowing something so beneath us is what started the ball rolling.
My husband quit his 10+ year job in May 2008 to work full time in my home business ("our business" at the time, but it went downhill pretty fast when the new wore off and the recession set it). By late 2009 we had a lot of financial problems, but his pride wouldn't let him go back to the job. He developed some health issues with his kidneys and digestive track, and our love life was way off the rails.
So that's the part that sounds normal! But add in that he was a Colonial War reenactor, had been for decades. It was not my thing at all, but I was never the kind of wife that tried to dictate what his hobbies could be. I enjoyed my weekends to myself when he had an event to attend out of state.
In 2009 he started spending more and more time at events, many times focusing on planning things instead of working and spending money we didn't have on it. He came back from one that November and said R & D (a couple who had been long time friends in the hobby, though I'd always thought they were kind of trashy/sketchy - especially D, the wife) had brought a friend this time - a female reenactor that he had "a lot in common with! She's into all of the same bands I'm into!" (forget that he was actually into none of the bands he was mentioning - it was all punk music from when he was a teen that he hadn't listened to in decades).
This friend is of course OW. She was married with three kids, and lived two states away. Sent him a friend request on FB right away. Our desks faced each other in our office, and he looked up at me from his computer with a big grin and said, "I feel kind of weird accepting it...what do you think? I don't have a lot of reenactor friends on here." Actually, he DID. And the whole scene was bizarre. I said, "I don't care!" because, I didn't! It's FB. Not real life.
Within a week he told me she'd started insinuating that she had feelings for him and he wanted to let me know. He said it made him feel bad because he was afraid he'd sent her the wrong signals when they joked around online and he didn't know what to do. He said he didn't want to hurt her feelings (HA! Would say the same words to me soon enough). I encouraged him to be honest with her, and I thanked him for sharing it with me. I didn't ask to see the email because I trusted him implicitly, as we all did our spouses. When she wrote back saying she didn't mean to imply that she was interested, he seemed relieved. Of course, this is the story I got, could be different. Off the cuff he did say, "You know there's nothing there for me, because she's got kids!". ??? He's not a big kid fan.
Within a month they were at events together again and she was sending him home with witchcraft items to place around the house. LOL He didn't have a smartphone yet so he had his laptop with him 24/7 so they could talk. Rarely did we get to watch a movie or eat a meal where she wasn't present - all under the guise of planning some event or just needing his "friends" that I wouldn't let him have. She started befriending my business colleagues, and even met for coffee with one who filled me in on the sordid details ("She's not like us!"). To put into perspective how weird that is, she's a dog groomer, and I own a creative content marketing agency. So yeah...we don't really share connections, unless there's a really talented Labrador out there who could possibly work with us both. ;)
Just skip ahead so I don't tell the whole story, LOL - it started physically in a tent at one of the forts, according to him. Where people were literally a few feet away, and no one showers at these things, so I'm sure it was a beautiful experience. He came home with a bite somewhere you wouldn't want one, and tried to play it off to me that he'd gotten something caught in his pants zipper. LOL Since I hadn't even seen it - it was kind of a red flag that he was saying a little too much.
I don't really believe it was the first time since there were signs long before, but he does own up that it was an EA long before a PA. I may never know. That's fine - it's all so weird, I may make up something better! LOL
In 2012 when I reminded him of that original email that made him feel bad - he looked at me like a deer in headlights. These women are predators, and men don't like to feel like they've been duped, so when that reality sets in, it's not pretty. But in my case, it's continued to fuel the MLC and make him try to validate this relationship as something more. Probably won't work out long term, I would think.
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These women are predators
I believe my wife's OM is also a predator. After all, 7 years ago he was hitting on my D31 when he was her boss and she was married at the time. But it seems to be unpopular on HS to assign blame to the OP so I was beginning to think maybe my wife was the only MLCer to get involved with a predator. Based on these two stories, there are at least two other MLCers who are involved with predators. Thanks for starting this topic. I believe the predatory OP has a lot to do with MLCs taking so dang long.
I'm not sure that I know my wife's story but I know she was severely depressed at the time the affair started. Who would start an affair with a severely depressed woman who is in a long term marriage but a predator. I've been told by a third party that my wife went to him (they work together) for advice because our granddaughter was cutting herself and his daughter had done the same thing but I'm not sure that's the truth. My D31 thinks our granddaughter was cutting herself because she knew about the affair and couldn't tell anyone. My wife and the OM tried to get our 13yo granddaughter to be his D13's bff. D31 says our granddaughter didn't quit cutting herself until after the truth about the affair finally came out. Our granddaughter eventually grew to despise him and his D13 and when my wife became unhappy because the two girls were having problems at school he sent his D13 70 miles away to live with her mother. The mother he had told everyone didn't want her. ::)
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Exactly .. predators ! I have been 100% committed to making my husband own 100% of his decision to start an affair. I no way believe it is the OW 's fault . I have never told him this .. and will not .. but she was an absolute predator . Years ago she made innapropriate comments to another daughters husband . He told immidiately and they worked out some ways that he was not alone with her as he felt incredibly uncomfortable. She cannot pay her rent , could not even purchase a 20 clothing item ( no credit and apparrently no $ .. ) and I am telling you.. my husband looks extremely loaded . We live in an 750,000.00 Victorian home , vacation lots and had 2 fabulous jobs . ( he quit his ). He is very very handsome , personable and she well knew he was a " rock solid man ". ( WAS... he not that special anymore ) . She saw an incredible catch and went for it from her back. In some ways , she initiated contact with him and most certainly pursued him after the deed was done . My son - in- law said " she was all over him etc ". IN NO WAY is she to blame for his decision... but she is an absolute predator .
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I don't know the details of how my H's affair started. I don't know if I want to. I have my suspicions, but I have no information other than confirmation that he was having one.
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He told immidiately and they worked out some ways that he was not alone with her as he felt incredibly uncomfortable.
My wife is (was?) very trusting. The only time I've ever been seriously angry with her was when she agreed to let our D31's boyfriend live with us. D31 was only 16 at the time. I didn't like him and didn't trust him and it turns out I was right. When she turned 17 and was still in high school he convinced her to move out and live with him. He used every emotionally manipulative trick in the book, telling her if she didn't move in with him she'd never see him again, he'd move 1200 miles away, he'd kill himself. Three months later she had to move back home because they were broke and she was pregnant. I told him if he hung around he would be paying child support but that we would take care of the child's needs if he left her alone. We never saw him again. Of course, there is a positive side to this story because my wife and I raised that little girl until she was 10 years old and she's a wonderful young lady who's helping to keep me sane now.
Fast forward 7 years. D31 is 24 years old and works at the school with her mother. Future OM is her boss. She tells her mother he makes her uncomfortable because he's always hitting on her. My wife told her she has a good job and he's harmless so she should just ignore him. A short while later her husband joined the army and she quit her job to go and be with him.
Fast forward another 7 years. My wife is severely depressed but after a little while starts acting more cheerful. A couple of months later BD hits and I eventually learn that they started talking during the time when she was so depressed. I think he's a predator, he saw her defenses were down, and he went after her. We don't live in a 750,000.00 house but I've been told he's broke and we are (were?) pretty comfortable. And now he will be if she's follows through with the divorce. D31 told me that the OM is just as emotionally manipulative as her earlier boyfriend was.
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I don't know the details of how my H's affair started. I don't know if I want to. I have my suspicions, but I have no information other than confirmation that he was having one.
Almost two years post BD and I don't even know her name, by choice.
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I know her name, where she works and where she lives and a little about her past via scorned woman investigations through H's Facebook (I had his password ) and I've seen pictures that H left on our computer, but as to how they met, why he was smitten, what he saw in her that made him throw away his family, when they went from EA to PA, I have no clue.
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I believe that the OW in my situation is a total predator too. My husband went over to her rented house to fix some plumbing that she states the landlord refused to fix. He was asked by OW's daughter to fix it because a horrible stench was coming into the house and our daughter's were best friends. Her daughter practically lived with us because her mother was always off with baby daddy to child # 5, she had 5 with all different fathers. Apparently when he went there she told him there was a nest of snakes in the brush in her back yard and would he come back and take care of that. (I just love the snake in the grass irony). When he went back on that occasion she told him about how she was in an abusive relationship and didn't know how to get out of it. Our D and her D were going on a trip with my H up to Chicago so they traded numbers so that he could contact her if her D needed her. Doesn't matter that she had her own cell phone. So evidently he proceeded to assist her and encourage her to get out of her relationship and they developed an EA. According to him, the feelings "just happened". She is a master manipulator. I've seen her daughter do the same thing. They use their hardships to play on people's sympathy's. When I asked my H how he could care about someone who neglects their children, (we used to talk about how horrible she was as a mother because only two of her kids live with her, her oldest is dead, died in an ATV accident in Ohio, living with his father in another state) H said, she has reasons for her behavior and I'm not going to share them with you. Then one of the fathers of her children died from leukemia, and she wasn't even in a relationship with him when he died. He was with a different woman and she acts like he's the love of her life and does fundraisers for leukemia and tags him in FB posts when he doesn't even have a facebook because he's dead. Oh and she was pregnant a sixth time which she had a miscarriage and this caused her to need anxiety medicine so she states that made her go crazy and go outside in her bra and underwear, thumping a bible and yelling verses and tear up her apartment and writing weird stuff all over the walls. I don't want to sound like a heartless person, because lord knows that losing a child and miscarriages are painful, but that doesn't give you the excuse to steal someone else's' man and use that as a poor me leverage for people to feel sorry for you. I believe she used pregnancy as way to hold all of her men anyway. Whenever she lost one man and got another, she got pregnant again. Thank God H had a vasectomy. Baby Daddy told me that she uses visitation of his son to control him. If he does anything she doesn't like including dating people she doesn't like, he doesn't get to see their son until she needs something or changes her mind for whatever reason.
My H and I have a 250, 000 home on one acre, a boat, a camper and 2 jetskis, we have worked our a$$es off for everything we have and that b!+ch covets every bit of it> Like Barbiedoll my husband was an awesome family man who would never be expected to act in the manner that he has, cheating, leaving me and spending no time with his kids whom he's always adored. Yes, he made his decisions, but there is no doubt in my mind that she manipulated it just the way she wanted it and is still doing so now.
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Hi, after almost 5 yrs after bd, I can tell you that the op is a manipulative, controlling broken person, out to get everything they want, including our spouses. However, our spouses, made a choice to do this also, they made a choice to commit to the affair. Predator or no predator, our spouses did this, and made this choice, without talking to us first, that was their choice. The predator could have been anyone at anytime, but our spouses made that leap into affairdom.
However, affairs are not happy, I know, my h affair for almost 4 yrs was not, and this was confirmed by my boys. H affair is now over and he is pursueing other broken people to get his fix. They made the choice regardless of who came along, it is not about the affairee, it is all about the spouse and their choices. A stronger spouse would hopefully have declined the msnipulation of the predator, however, ours were weak and to them they took the easy path to fulfillment. Again, however, we know, that that was not the right path to choose, as they remain in unhappiness. They chose this path and it is their fault what happens, not the op and not the spouse.
Our spouses could not resist temptation, but they chose to fail and did not resist.
One day, I know and have a gut feeling that my h will regret everything he has done, and tbh, I hope he does. I chose to follow a different path from him and I am stronger for it.
Sorry to rant, but after seeing the ow of my h, he must have been desperate to get off the path we were following, but instead of talking to me about it, he chose an easy option, someone or it could have easily been something else, I think vodka still plays a big role in his life rather than man up and deal with things.
Xx
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:( I am so sorry for your granddaughter MBIB! SO gross that he made a play for your daughter, too. I get where in the scope of MLC it's important to keep the perspective that the OP is not the issue, and to not get caught up in their drama. But for a lot of us (and I know there are more), these people can take more than just the intimacy of our marriages - they're after our jobs, our kids, our LIVES. We have to at least concentrate on it long enough to put further protections in place. That's been my experience, anyway.
The OW and her now xH have records in every county surrounding their city. She'd let my friend know that her home was in foreclosure, her xH's medical bills were growing (great time to cheat on the guy!), and she needed out. Her exact words were, "I'm not a bad person, I just need to get my kids set up." Her kids are now late teens and 20s - adults! But they now all live with her and my xH, along with no less than 9 animals. Karma in itself. ;)
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I agree w/I Believe:
I can tell you that the op is a manipulative, controlling broken person, out to get everything they want, including our spouses. However, our spouses, made a choice to do this also, they made a choice to commit to the affair. Predator or no predator, our spouses did this, and made this choice, without talking to us first, that was their choice. The predator could have been anyone at anytime, but our spouses made that leap into affairdom.
But yes OW is a total predator. Her own H & Mother said she is desperate for attention, and will do whatever needed to get it. Including suicide attempts.....
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Manning up, facing it and dealing with it seems almost impossible for a lot of our H's!!! Just so much easier to run off with the nearest available person (if you can call them that!).
X
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My X's affair is not a singular event. After BD i discovered that X had been looking for many other woman. He did meet a OW only she had the decency to say she did not want to be with a married man although i think they did have brief PA. So X was looking about a year before he met OW1.
OW1 definitely pursued X. It seemed to have started for OW1 at a conference were X was a speaker. A few months later she contacts X via texting to compliment him on the talk he gave. If X texts are to be believed he could not remember her and asked her for a photo. As soon as he received her photo the flirting started with X saying she was HOT. From there it progressed to them meeting - i do not know when the actual PA started but i know from the texts that OW pursued X with flattery, falttery and more flattery. A few months into the affair to keep X interested she starts sending provocative pictures of herself, followed by down right pornographic pictures of her genitals. And so the sexting began but it was all one sided from what i could see. X never sent pictures of himself.
A couple of months after BD a woman phones me to tell me my X is cheating on me and she was not the OW1 but rather another OW that X was cheating with on OW1. After this call i did something i am not proud of but i went into X emails and saw all the evidence for myself (i only did this once). Hence my knowledge of OW1's predatory pursuit of X and also all of X's cheating on OW1 with women he was meeting on dating websites that cater for people who want to hook up for sex. X's cheating on OW1 started a few months after BD and i imagine this was his way of medicating the pain. Having read some of the texts between all these OW and him he was struggling to sleep and many of the sexual virtual talks were late at night.
OW1 is a highly educated woman, 14 years younger than H, and a corporate go-getter.
Jump a couple of years ahead - i do not know if X is still using these websites i would imagine he is not because he closed down the email he used for these escapades. It is the same email i used to communicate with X and he had to send me his new email address because he said he was having technical problems with his old email LOL i can just magine the technical problems he was having!!!! And now has married OW1.
Barbiedoll i know you ask if they ever feel regret so i will send you something i have posted on several other threads. It is a recent text sent from X 8 months after his marriage to OW1.
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My car broke down about 3 weeks ago I had to text X for the insurance number because he still pays for all my insurances - he phones me straight away all concern in his voice and calling me by my pet name - i guess to protect myself i was polite and distant, I felt uncomfortable with him treating me like i was someone he cared about. Anyway i felt bad about being distant so i text him the following:
"Dear X i am sorry. I struggle to speak to you knowing that in the end all you had for me was contempt and disgust - i need to be free from buying into your perception of me and you need to be free from your anger and guilt towards me. The only way i know how this is possible is to give us both freedom from the past. I am truly sorry if this causes you pain. I guess this is what happens when things are left unresolved".
His reply
"Less disgust for you than you think moment.....just a whole lot of regret.....and embarrassment. Not regret for our life together....but regret that it didn't go forward. I had a good life with you moment...it was only a very small part of it that didn't work out well towards the end.....but that's done now...."
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This coming from a man who had said he had only been happy in the first year of our M and for the rest he was unhappy. That our M was a troubled one. Now its was a very small part of the M that didn't work well - go figure!!!!
8 months into X's M with OW1 and his quote on Whats-up is ....
“The price of being a sheep is boredom. The price of being a wolf is loneliness. Choose one or the other with great care.”
Which is quite funny ....X always loved wolves and i think he identifies with them but little does he know the irony that wolves are largely monogamous and its the sheep, the ram that has his harem of females. So while X likes to think he is a wolf he is behaving like a ram!!! so i guess then according to his quote he must be bored. ;D :D ;)
take care moment
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And that is the bottom line THEY CHOSE to do this. This was free will. To take a family and devastate it this way is simply one of the most selfish things someone can do.
Dealing with the fallout and collateral damage isn't our job. We cannot fix this or them.
We can only look within ourselves to understand what emotions it creates for us ( feelings of abandonment,betrayal, feelings of not being enough,or worthlessness. The rage, anger, the sorrow and pain) .It helps to understand where all of that comes from. For me? I found it in my upbringing.
Then grieve the loss of that relationship. And that takes time.
IF reconcilation happens? BOTH people have to be on board with making an HONEST OPEN ATTEMPT to create a new relationship.
I truly believe it's not possible without some time apart.
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Hope, I'm pretty sure from everything you posted on your thread that the hobag preyed on your husband big time.
Brain, same goes for you. That guy's total dang-bag.
I have a feeling in my case that skank-o-tron likes attention. Craves attention. Needs attention. I imagine she has no sense of self worth and deep downs feels like human garbage. Very sad, blah blah blah. Well she is a piece of garbage. Maybe one day she will grow up and decide that not being a piece of human garbage is a personal choice and stops being a piece of human garbage. Maybe she will get married to the love of her life and do babies and happy family with him and then he will have a midlife crisis and cheat on her.
I know for a fact that she would not have turned his head if he hadn't being so fcked up.
To my thinking: yeah, he is responsible, but so is she. He had 3 kids at home and a beautiful loving partner with a big heart waiting in his bed, and she knew it.
But the less I know about this btch the better, I figured that out before he even stopped sleeping here. I stopped snooping way before I found HS
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MsT, I think you're right about the skank-o-tron having no self worth. That's why they often go after someone who's married. It makes them feel special because they can take someone who "belonged" to someone else. They don't realize that the person they "won" is not much of a prize. They're either fcked up, as you wrote about your husband, or they're a garden variety cheater.
I think the skank-o-tron is probably a total dang-bag too.
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You want the square peg to fit the round hole. And you will keep forcing it until it does. And then you will be happy. I have no doubt that the OW is predatory. So was my MLCer. The road of life has many bumps and holes, some really tiny, some will swallow you up. It is up to each individual to make sure he doesn't trip up or fall in, along the way.
I'm sure we all had moments when we felt that we could have more validation/admiration/appreciation from our husbands. I'm sure we also had moments when some other guy paid us some extra attention, if only for a second. But we loved and appreciated what we had at home, even if it was not as good.
Remember the story of Adam and Eve and the apple? Eve made me do it, said Adam. The serpent tricked me into it said Eve. And God sentenced ALL THREE to death until, in his Love for them, sent His Son to free them (save for the serpent).
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Our situation is an odd one,since we were divorced thanks to his scheme to get his full retirement benefits. That was thought of in 2011 by him and I finally gave in. It was finalized March 2012 with intentions to remarry with no one knowing. We were still together til he walked out October 2012 unannounced.
I know he contacted the OW through facebook. He had accused me of trying to hook up with other men so said if I could be on there so could he. Only thing was the men on my list were guys we knew together way back as teens from high school. Kids I grew up with,with no interest on my part. They were sent to me through others not by me looking them up either. They were also on his friends list.
So he dug up the old hag from the past as a way to get back at me in his brain. They were dating before him and I and that was when they were around 15. He had also tried reconnecting with her right before we married. I found out by finding a note in our car. A few weeks later we were married. We went to the justice of the peace. He was the one that set it up and it was right before our first d started school.
So while we were still married he contacted her again. I knew he was acting weird way before any of this divorce chat started. From what she told me he was the pursuer and she wouldn't have anything to do with him since he was married. I don't know when they first started chatting it up. I think it was a little while after he left,but I could be wrong. I know he was trying to hook up with others too.
I found out oct.2013 they were so called friends when I went to take mail to him at his camper. There was a car at his shop next to his camper and I knew there was someone then. I walked in and there was this ugly,old,dirty looking woman laying next to him on the couch bed. She looked old. Older than him but come to find out she's the same age. I asked her what her name was and she told me. Surprise surprise the ex girlfriend from the past.
She is divorced. I don't know how many times. She has three kids in early thirties,late twenties,two have her maiden name,none look like siblings. I think there's at least two different dads. A real winner that bad mouthed her son on Facebook. I know two of the kids and her have police records.
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I'm sure we also had moments when some other guy paid us some extra attention, if only for a second.
I've only had one time when some other guy paid me some extra attention and I was able to resist him. I don't know whether I would have been able to, though, if I had been going through a crisis at the time. I do know that if I hadn't resisted him I would have been going through a crisis then.
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???
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I'm sure we also had moments when some other guy paid us some extra attention, if only for a second.
I've only had one time when some other guy paid me some extra attention and I was able to resist him. I don't know whether I would have been able to, though, if I had been going through a crisis at the time. I do know that if I hadn't resisted him I would have been going through a crisis then.
AHahahhahaha ;D
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We were taking a break because he monstered at me in front of my parents. I said lets just take a few weeks and do our own thing for a bit. Well, he had beer ball (softball with beers in hand) on Wednesdays. I went one time when he first started and after that I always said to go have fun with the guys. Turns out OW was there like the next week and by the week after, he had been texting. I could tell something was up so kept asking if he was looking for someone else...all the while he says he misses me, but doesn't know what we should do because he doesn't want to yell at me anymore. I was ready to tell him we should work on us, but then he went a whole day without texting or calling me so I looked at his FB account and sure enough, OW was in his messages and they had already had sex. So, I called him and and asked him why...he denied it until I said she's calling you sexy in FB messages. I told him I had wanted us to stay together and work on things. He asked why I had to look and why didn't I tell him sooner because now it was too late. There were too many people involved to let her go...and if I hadn't looked, it would've been ok, but now I knew and he'd never be able to face me again. I said I still loved him & I didn't care about her...just come home. He said she was the female version of him and he had to see where this would go. If it didn't work out, he'd come back. I told him not to take too long deciding & he said he wouldn't. He also told me she told him she had her eye on him for over a year now so he couldn't just leave her! HELLO!!! What about ME? But...he said we were on a break and breaks never end so we'd always be taking breaks so he got to talking to her and one thing led to another. She was married and working on getting a divorce so they shared their miserable sad stories of how they were wronged and that was that. In the meantime, he had been home, but was always so distracted with texting...he was texting her while we were trying to figure out what to do. WHY couldn't she have said to see what happens & she'd be there? Well, because she is a manipulative, insane predator! She had her eye on him and the minute she heard of trouble, she swooped in. According to the cell bill, it took them 10 days before they were busy texting each other. TEN DAYS! He was supposed to be thinking about us and how we could make changes so he wouldn't yell...because it was so random, not anything I did. After 4 years together, most of it very happy...awesome sex life...good teamwork when we did stuff together...it took him 10 freakin days to replace me!
I have forgiven him. His Adderall was not right and he can't tell that himself. He was upset about turning 40 and his son graduating. Life got the better of him and I understand that. BUT...OW did not care one bit that he had a good life with me because she was suffering & sucked him right in with her big red hair & big boobs. I do not have the time of day for her. I've told him to never talk about her because as far as I'm concerned, she does not exist.
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He also told me she told him she had her eye on him for over a year now so he couldn't just leave her!
She was married and working on getting a divorce
Wow! :o :o :o
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I'm sure we also had moments when some other guy paid us some extra attention, if only for a second.
I've only had one time when some other guy paid me some extra attention and I was able to resist him. I don't know whether I would have been able to, though, if I had been going through a crisis at the time. I do know that if I hadn't resisted him I would have been going through a crisis then.
Lol. I was also going through a crisis, the devastation of BD. Had a man with the wrong set of values agreeing to support me financially and proposing that I move in with him knowing I needed a place to stay (I was in really bad shape then, with no money no family no home), but I stood my ground. How easy was it for someone who woke up screaming everyday and then crying the rest of the day as the loss sinks in yet again, to resist such an offer, even if temporarily until she could stand on her own again?
The same happens with people who do and do not cave in to drugs or alcohol or whatever in times of crisis (that can be something as common as losing a job, or something as rare as having your parents shot to death, and your sister gang-raped in front of your eyes). There's nothing special about MLC.
That said, to err is human, to forgive divine. Forgiving is done 'in spite of' and not by downplaying the mistake by justifying a person's wrongdoing with the fog or hormonal imbalance of whatever of MLC, or trying to push the blame on the OW or someone else.
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Hi,
Just attaching.
My W sat next to me in our van, (I have a small Handyman Business) and texted her om while we drove around.
Then at night would sit at our Kitchen bench with myself and our D(17) not five feet away and have FB conversations with him but telling us she was connecting with her long lost cousins.
Really.....who does that.
Im so angry at her for bringing this into our Home under our noses.
And she wonders why her D(17) and transgender S(23) dont want anything to do with her.
Duh ::)
Cheers D PS I hope Ive done this right not to good on comps.
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If you can imagine this ...my husband was in a resturant with his McFling ( OW) and I walked in with my friend for dinner . It was a resturant way out of town and I just love the lake and tress etc. My friend is male and we have worked together as a team since 1991. He is my best friend . He is married with 2 sons and I love his wife and it is so platonic , a real friendship. He knew I loved this place so he took me out for supper. I was dying and he was a fabulous support although he was extremely angry and just could not believe my husband would leave etc. Anyway, we sat and had a long dinner , tons of support and he had an article he found about MLC that he was reading to me. On the other side of this resturant sat my husband and HER . NEVER did I see them . Perfect hide a way for cheating husbands . But they saw me . ( I smoke , so imagine them watching me go in and out????) She saw me , she says to him "there is Barbiedoll". He says he was so upset, so shook up that he was sick and he could not breathe blah blah blah " She looks at him and says " oh my god, you still love your wife ". He says " is it that obvious. I need to figure out a way to fix my life and go home ". Her response ?. " everyone had a right to make there own decisions " . WHAT ??? . And that is that . Nothing changed . They continue on as if none of that happened . I imagine she is now a sexual acrobat as she has nothing else to hold him . Never did I see them as life would have went in an entirely different direction and I shudder shudder shudder to even think how it would have went . However , I did see her car when my friend and I left . Parked right beside us ( business written on car ) . I mentioned this to my friend . Told him.. " crap, she is in there somewhere and likely saw me with a man and it will be gossipped thru the family that I am out with a man ". I went home and never thought much of it again. Somewhere along the line , my monster husband ( who was out of the house by now ", said to me " I saw you and **** out for supper , maybe he your new boyfriend?". I just walked away from mr monster because detachment is my friend and tooo stupid to deal with that remark. A week later , I am sitting alone on the deck with my coffee just thinking . I remember him saying that to me . I wonder where he saw me and I go thru a list in my head of the resturants I was at with my friend . We went for dinner every 2 weeks . BINGO. I remember her car at this particular resturant , I know the type of person she is etc etc and had the most powerfull "knowing " / my intuition etc . I knew . I just knew now what this was all about and the pain was ingrained in my soul for evermore . But I knew . He told on himself and has done that same thing several times . But , my point , why would a women continue on with an affair that she knows he wants to fix his life and his marriage . He told her that on 2 different occassions and she just continued on sleeping with him like she did not hear . ? WTF? And my husband was working out of town . Sometimes , he came back on the weekends and saw her, but lots of times he stayed north and working . He always paid for a roomin town, he never live with her . He says sometimes he saw her once or twice a month . ( I know this is true because I watched everything on online banking ) . This is the most ridiculous "affair : I have ever heard of . Really makes utterly no sense that a women would carry on with a married man that wants to return home , barely sees her etc etc . I not down playing what he did , believe me . But why would a women risk an affair with a married man knowing she was temporary and he had no plan to stay . ? I am so confused by that . These women are many bricks short and think nothing of themselves .. or anyone else. My husband dropped her like she was on fire and NEVER looked back.
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The exow was so moral that she told him "I don't have relationships with married men" So he took care of that ASAP. She also consoled him with "This happens to everyone"
She lasted 4 months.
A good friend of mine happened to talk to her and she said she was involved with a man who only focused on her issues and never his own.
It took her 4 months to figure out what his problem is. It took me 32 years. Go figure. ::)
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... my husband looks extremely loaded . We live in an 750,000.00 Victorian home , vacation lots and had 2 fabulous jobs . ( he quit his ). He is very very handsome , personable and she well knew he was a " rock solid man ". ( WAS... he not that special anymore ) . She saw an incredible catch and went for it from her back. In some ways , she initiated contact with him and most certainly pursued him after the deed was done . My son - in- law said " she was all over him etc ". IN NO WAY is she to blame for his decision... but she is an absolute predator .
Barbiedoll - change a few minor details about the house (we live in an apartment in NYC) and it is exactly my situation. Eerie how similar.
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There is a couple at work that are both married and are obviously having an affair.
He is a good friend of mine and is having a textbook crisis.
This "woman" that he is cheating on his wife with is desperate, needy, annoying, and the definition of a "butter-face". She could not hold a candle to his wife. Let me give just a few examples of how this woman behaves---
At a gathering after work she mentioned how my shirt was untucked and tucked my shirt in by sliding her hand all the way down into my @ss before I had a chance to turn around.
At a company picnic she was caught in the ladies room washing the sand out of her panties while wearing a short skirt. This was in front of one the the female managers.
She dresses like a hooker at work but last week wore pajamas b/c it was pajama day at her kids school.
At my boyfriends apartment (a few years ago) she actually attacked him to the point where he had to pin her against a wall and yell for her to stop. She still grabbed at his "junk" and he had to lock himself in his room b/c she was too drunk to drive. (There were several other people there at the time and confirmed this story). After she literally stalked him at work until he threatened to go to HR.
A bartender at a nearby upscale restaurant had to throw her and another (female) coworker out b/c they were making out at the bar. This was not that kind of bar.
I could go on for pages, she is crazy.
So my friend who is obviously screwing this nutbag defends her to his last breath. I call him right out all the time. I just wrote on my thread this week how he wants me to tell his wife that we were out all night b/c he didn't get home until 6am. I told him I knew he was with this person but he denied it. Do MLCers think everyone around them are stupid? He is currently going to marriage counseling yet I know he is also still seeing this b!tch. Oh, she "understands him" and "she is not as bad as everyone thinks"....really??
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Yep they do and I think we want to believe them so much that we just let it slide.
I actually laughed when I found out who the ex might be seeing. I told my oldest D "He wouldn't trade his family in for her"
How wrong I was. WOW.
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Hi All
While i know OW was predatory in her pursuit of X i am not convinced she is all bad. I don't know her as a person at all and while there are some OW that have been described on this thread as highly dysfunctional - i cannot see that applying to all OW - surely?
Can a OW be predatory, can she be someone who helped X hurt us to our very core, but at the same time be an extremely nice person to everyone else - her brother, her mother, her dad, her friends surely get to see a different person. And maybe that's the person X sees. Hoe else can you explain the MLCer making a commitment of marriage to someone who is dysfunctional and nasty. I can't see how MLC explains this - even in the depths of our despair we were able to make conscious choices.
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It drives me crazy b/c I have been on the other side. Whenever I'm talking to this guy, during work, or after (we always have hung out a lot) she is constantly texting him. It DOES NOT STOP, every minute all the time his phone is beeping. He tries to hide it from me and I'm not even his wife. He just knows I disapprove and tell him he's stupid. How can they even think of so much to say?
If I ever did this to my husband it would have drove him nuts. Yet with these predators, the MLCers seem to love it.
I remember months before he left my husband was constantly "playing solitaire" on his phone. I use to joke how boring it must be to play that one game all the time. He said it relaxed him. Now I know he must have been texting back and forth with her. Now that they live together how must that constant need for attention be like?
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but at the same time be an extremely nice person to everyone else - her brother, her mother, her dad, her friends surely get to see a different person. And maybe that's the person X sees.
Moment, like I said I don't even know the girls name but I do know due to my husband's co-workers that she is not liked at work. Much like the predator that I am describing. No one at work likes this woman who is having an affair with my friend. NO ONE. That is why he is always defending her.
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ny h who was loyal for 20 years (after having an "affair") many years ago see the post differnce with mlc affairs disucussion
well he went on holiday as he had for the last 4 years prior to BD with his friend my friends husband i had no reason not to trust him (!!!) he was away for a week had told me this was the last time he was going to do this as he couldnt stand being away from me for a week . he left me a note the day he went telling me I love you (pet name) in fact all around the world and back again and i am already missing you and cant wait to come back home to you . all my love yur (pet name)
he sent me emails of his hotel and sent pictures of the ferry port he was sat at telling me I wish I was going to our Place (which was just across the water from where he was staying and we had just been 2 month before on our annual holiday)
he sent a few more texts and emails then the day he came back he looked shocked (dont know if that is the right word) but I KNEW there and then something wasnt right he then started distances himself then being himself he then told me he couldnt go to a hospital appointment with me (he know how scard i was ...again i knew he was lying about where he had been
timescale of this he went on holiday dec 6 2011 came back 15 Dec 2011 we had christmas together his parents 60th wedding anniversay in Jan 5 2012 (he told me infront of them we wouldnt see 60 years then said he was joking) he would never have said that the year befofe was our 21 wedding anniversay and he told me he couldnt wait for the next 21 years and he loved me immeasurably (6months before BD)
Jan 27/28 cant quite remember now he told me he had met someone on holdiay wanted a divorce she was ten times the woman i am and some other horrible things , also told our son he didnt care if he never saw him again as he was going to be with the ow he just had to do this ..(they were very close) i still cant believe the things that have happened and how i was told that the ow had done this many times with married men yet my h told me he only phoned her becasue she was in need of a friend as she was having problems in her marragie , it still breaks my heart and he is still a cb who i am beginning to dislike more and more
and i understand what barbie doll means by all the triggers I have them all the time jujst like the other day he had posted a picture of ow NEW car on you tube ? he has also been offering to pay towards a car for me why do they do this to ease their guilt ???
I have done everytning on my own i didnt ring him when i had my car accident but he kept in contact , i havent asked him for anything and I have kept a roof over my head and sons (at a cost to my health too ) I have also now (well in two weeks time got the new kitchen i have waited 20 years for and I am not in debt like my h who is still deeper and deeper in debt ...whose the loser here .
sorry for rant
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It's ok ICAWC rant away..
The ex told me I was 1000 times the person she was...sooo what gives? i'm telling you these om/ow are a reflection of how they feel about themselves. Actually she was his perfect match and me the exact opposite.
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My xW was the predator, she was the one who went searching for the OM, and there has been quite a few of them. When I first met monster one of the things she screamed at me was, she was could step out of the marriage any time to find sex and any man who shows her attention she’ll take it.
The first OM she found was in a night club, xW would go out of town to visit family, but when there she always have a night out at a particular night club, filled with dirty old men and trashy ladies. OM was just someone she bumped into a couple of times, they then exchanged phone numbers, emails and text, and then arranged to meet at a hotel to fck. Simple as that. That carried on for a while until he got lazy and bored with her.
She made one attempt to reconcile with me, then she went back to her old ways searching for men. She doesn’t seem to be bothered if they are attached, as the type of guys she picks are ones that are likely to stray anyway. I could also see that the OM overlapped each other, so she still had the old one while flirting with the new. She’s on her third OM since we separated, but this latest one she has announced as her boyfriend and is introducing him to people. She’s told D13 that she will have to meet him as some stage, (but that will be over my dead body).
Anyway I look at things more objectively now and the type of person she is, is not someone I would want in my life.
Lanzo
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Lanzo, it's really none of my business but I'm curious whether your wife was ever abused when she was younger.
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My xW was the predator, she was the one who went searching for the OM, and there has been quite a few of them.
This was my H too. He went looking for OW - when I asked him why her he told me "she was willing" :o There is nothing special about the OW/OM - it is just two broken people trying to find an external source to fix their brokenness!
My H and OW1 have been on and off for over 2 years now. She wrote him a letter last month telling him what an awful person he is ??? but she is still with him :o not very smart. They will continue to use each other. I will be moving soon and wonder if that will allow for them to get more serious - I kind of doubt it because he doesn't OW as a person, she is just a toy to him.
Anyway I look at things more objectively now and the type of person she is, is not someone I would want in my life.
This is really what it comes down too - MLC or not.
Lanzo, it's really none of my business but I'm curious whether your wife was ever abused when she was younger.
This is interesting MBIB. How do sexually abused men act out? We hear about it much more with women. My H once told me that he was 3 years old the first time he went 'down' on a woman :o and he said it like he was proud of this! This is abuse in my eyes and I find it weird that he doesn't see it that way.
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My H's Bimbo worked at a corner store where we would fuel up our work trucks daily. My BIL is also in the same business and his W was in there one morning and had on a new ring, Bimbo asked to see it, stated "I'm going to have to find me a (our occupation)!"... And that she did...
We have rental properties and he told me she was interested in renting one of our homes. I reluctantly agreed and she and her boyfriend moved in. At that time I remember telling H to stay away from her because I knew what kind of woman she was. Predator.
So a few months later, I go on vacation with the kids and come back to him acting weird. He had to take a weekend trip to go look at some property. I felt something wrong and hid a tape recorder in vehicle. Yep, exactly what I thought. They had started chit chatting at the store in the mornings prior to this and then started texting and talking a lot.
Started by her complimenting him, telling him her woe is me stories, bad childhood, etc. He felt he had to "save" her. On the recorder he tells her how she do her finances so she can save and get her credit scores up. I got his up to 850 from 400 something when we got together. His finances were a mess, but now he's an expert.
They were in EA for quite a while before she finally had sex with him. I believe she really wasn't in to him, but what she thought was in his wallet. We have a good business, quite a few rental properties, both drive nice vehicles and have a good valued home paid for. Every text I ever saw from her was about money. How she had found some Coach shoes she liked, how she saw a nice gold necklace she liked..etc.. Now mind you, my husband has always equated money to success. Even our 11S says his dad tries to buy his love. Sad.. Pathetic.
Well you get the drift of how it started.. Come to find out several months after H started his affair with her she had been in several affairs with men in our area, ALL married. When H tried to cut it off, she would drop off "cheater" phones in his truck and letters professing her undying love and she would kill herself if he didn't talk to her again. I asked if she needed to borrow a rope, gun, bridge?? Sorry I know that's ugly.
We are at the point of him wanting to come home, supposedly cut all ties with her - - but I don't believe that. And he's just getting deeper into debt everyday. Not sure where this relationship will go from here, but I know detaching and GAL works wonders. I try not to rent space to her in my head but I have to admit, it's hard. She makes it hard by texting me all the time from random numbers. I recently sent a cease and desist letter to her and will proceed with pressing charges if she doesn't stop. I am focusing more on me and less on them and him.
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This is interesting MBIB. How do sexually abused men act out? We hear about it much more with women. My H once told me that he was 3 years old the first time he went 'down' on a woman :o and he said it like he was proud of this! This is abuse in my eyes and I find it weird that he doesn't see it that way.
This is really interesting. I don't know how sexually abused men act out but, even though he seems proud of the abuse he lived through when he was young, I agree with you that it was abuse and it must have been very confusing and possibly traumatic at that age. And I know that it's not unusual for sexually abused girls to later become promiscuous or even turn to prostitution in order to reenact the abusive situation / relationship and heal the trauma or for physically / emotionally abused children to later enter into a relationship with somebody who will abuse them the same way, again in an attempt to work through and heal the trauma. And I also know that this is not a conscious decision they make, it's a very powerful subconscious compulsion called a reenactment and that it rarely is successful.
Edited to add a second thought. If someone subjected a 3 year old boy to that kind of abuse I don't even want to think about other ways in which he may have been abused.
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If someone subjected a 3 year old boy to that kind of abuse I don't even want to think about other ways in which he may have been abused.
Agreed, and if he was a female it wouldn't even be a question if it was abuse or not.
I just had a lightbulb moment. Without getting into details, when my son told my husband of being abused when he was younger, without even taking him home my husband drove our son straight to a mental hospital. My son begged not to go, but husband (I found out about this later) had my son dragged in by two male nurses. He stayed for four days until I convinced husband to get him out of there. It was a very traumatic time for all of us.
Around this time is when my husband started changing.
Possible abuse that he has been hiding?
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sorry jujst wanted to say also my h ow when asked why she would see a married man when she had been through the same as me and i told h i wouldnt put another woman through this pain and torture. he said he asked her why she did and she said well you cant help who you fall for can you ??? my reply err yes you can you walk away and my h even had the audicity to say to me becasue other woman gave up her car , furniture and family to move up here , that he cant do anything coz he has made a "committment" now ?????? Isnt being married a commitment and respecting your vows to your wife and family , it stil maddens me .
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Yes it is a commitment ICAWC..chances are it's his GUILT that continues the relationship with her...he looks at what she did to have the relationshipwith him and the guilt keeps him tied to it.
He takes it for gtanted that you will just "be there"...think of what you can do for you to help move you forward....(((hugs)))
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If someone subjected a 3 year old boy to that kind of abuse I don't even want to think about other ways in which he may have been abused.
Agreed, and if he was a female it wouldn't even be a question if it was abuse or not.
I just had a lightbulb moment. Without getting into details, when my son told my husband of being abused when he was younger, without even taking him home my husband drove our son straight to a mental hospital. My son begged not to go, but husband (I found out about this later) had my son dragged in by two male nurses. He stayed for four days until I convinced husband to get him out of there. It was a very traumatic time for all of us.
Around this time is when my husband started changing.
Possible abuse that he has been hiding?
Wow, I'd say probable.
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I have some very powerfull thoughts .. and things I have learned about the abuse thing . My husband absolutely hid sexual abuse from me for over 35 years . He told me in tears when we 1st started to attempt reconcilliation... but I need to think before I write . I need time to organize a very upsetting revolation. I will be back ..
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Lanzo, it's really none of my business but I'm curious whether your wife was ever abused when she was younger.
I have absolutely no idea, I have seen no evidence to suggest she was, but clearly she has some issue with sex after seeing some of the stuff she's getting up.
Something I haven't mentioned before but apart from the sex video she seem to have this thing about photographing the guy's junk in her hand, I found quite a few pictures of this even going back to the original OM when camera phones were in their infancy. I was shocked by all of this as throughout our marriage she acted all prim and proper and never really got over excited by sex.
Part of the reason I keep half an eye on her is I would really like to find out what her problem is, I suppose it would give me a bit more closure.
Lanzo
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Nah, I agree with MsT. Your story is very interesting and possibly revealing.
ICAWC, this is just another example of their inability to think rationally. Their decision making switches to emotion-based decisions. You can't expect them to think rationally or to respond to rational arguments.
Lanzo, I'm not a therapist but I am a pretty good problem solver and when I see something that doesn't fit that's where I look for problems. Your wife's sexual behaviors don't fit, they don't make any sense, and that's why I asked the question. And you're right, understanding does make it a little easier to accept and perhaps even have some compassion for them.
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If someone subjected a 3 year old boy to that kind of abuse I don't even want to think about other ways in which he may have been abused.
Very good point MBIB!
My H has very controlling ways when it comes to sex. His sex partners are treated like objects for him to use. Maybe that is what happened to him. I know that he was exposed to a 'swingers' lifestyle by his dad when he was in his teens :o I am thinking that was probably the case when he was much younger too. He wasn't raised to be respectful - his dad pretty much did whatever he wanted regardless of how the family viewed it. Eventually his dad kept a lot of it away from the family - much like H is doing now :o In many ways I see H becoming his dad, something he said that he would never do!
I can also see why my H has always had narcissistic traits - how could he not ??? Maybe the trauma is too much for him to acknowledge. Maybe he is reenacting the abuse but this time he is the abuser believing that he is in control of it now instead of being the victim.
reenact the abusive situation / relationship and heal the trauma or for physically / emotionally abused children to later enter into a relationship with somebody who will abuse them the same way, again in an attempt to work through and heal the trauma. And I also know that this is not a conscious decision they make, it's a very powerful subconscious compulsion called a reenactment and that it rarely is successful.
I am going to need to look into how men cope/deal with sexual abuse.
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Maybe he is reenacting the abuse but this time he is the abuser believing that he is in control of it now instead of being the victim.
This does happen sometimes.
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Sure would explain why they are so vicious. Their behavior is one thing... (when it manifests physically time to go)
.What they say is brutal.
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I think my ex was looking...he was in the position of hiring staff and all of them young and inexperienced, someone he could mentor closely. First attempt failed but the second girl was a doozie. 25yrs old already divorced, full of tattoos and a potty mouth with no filter. Get this she had an online service site and on a business trip to Vegas they were out together her only wearing a bra and a skirt that just covered her butt. ::) Pretty much from day one they were inseparable and she told him she loved him within the week. 3 months later he was gone from my life (phone call to tell me when on a business trip with OW). Another 4 months she got herself pregnant and once the one year divorce waiting period was over they were married. Yikes! She got what she wanted(my life)and h got all the attention and admiration he could dream of and drop the responsibility of home(me and 3 little kids). Ex did what he thought was the right thing and married her and I think she played him. I think he was out looking for a bit of fun and excitement and to prove to himself he is all that...I think he is a sick old man with a $l()tty new wife. Kind of makes me gag, lol.
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Attaching ..
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Okay this is becoming a bit confusing. To me XH's family situations does not smack of sexual abuse. He was sent to boarding school when he was 13 years old while his two younger brothers were kept at home and went to normal day school. because of this i could see why X felt excluded from the family and why he often spent school holidays, including xmas at friends homes. X's dad definitely showed favoritism and X was no it - his younger brother was the apple of daddy's eye. X spent much of his life trying to impress his dad- wanting to succeed more so than his brothers.
Father-in-law often used X to help out brothers financially. And towards the end of our M X started telling me his mother was manipulative. I do not know if this is because of childhood issues or if MIL suspected what X was up to and X was trying to mind F*@&K me in case his mom said anything to me.
I know X's brothers cheated on their respective partners and in fact his youngest brother left his W for a younger OW but returned after 8 months - do not know the state of their M at this point. And in fact the dysfunction goes as far as X's youth, where in his late teens early 20 one, of his brothers cheated with X's then girlfriend - the strange thing is X still admired her and thought she was a go-getter. Why oh why did i not see this dysfunction earlier - i would have saved myself so much heartache!!!!
And is it no wonder X felt like my family was more of a family to him than his own. he and my mom had a closer bond than i have with my mom.
I have absolutely no clue if X was abused - i know that he wanted out of his first boarding school and resisted speaking about it - so maybe their was sexual abuse at this school that X has never mentioned. But as far as his parents go apart from being somewhat emotionally distant i do not see any evidence of sexual abuse - maybe neglect. As all three sons did not quite become successes in the relationship department. :'(
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Going back to thoughts on whether these other people are to blame or not.
I know the responsibility remains firmly on the shoulders of our spouses, but we would be naive not to understand that mate poaching has become a huge trend.
http://ideas.ted.com/10-facts-about-infidelity-helen-fisher/
7. Mate poaching is a pronounced trend. In a recent survey of single American men and women, 60% of men and 53% of women admitted to “mate poaching,” trying to woo an individual away from a committed relationship to begin a relationship with them instead. Mate poaching is also common in 30 other cultures.
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Hi, interesting never heard of mate poaching before. Maybe that is it, don't know. At the end of he day, it is the choice of our spouses to have the affair, and the other person just simply has no morals whatsoever, to go and join them in the affair, most of them know that our spouses were married and they did not walk away. Both our spouses and the other person have no morals, and feel no responsibility for what they are doing and feel no regard to what is right and wrong. Regardless of whether the other person needs 'saving', is manipulative, is poaching, our spouses did not say NO. X
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Interesting article about mate poaching....
https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/386403/1/Schmitt+et+al+2004b.pdf
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Call it what you want, it doesn't take a genius to ask the right questions of someone to establish what you might need to do to get that person interested.
The ow/om in our spouse lives didn't start as one night stands, they started with conversation that led to them being romantically involved. The right questions were asked, the right tactics were deployed. I would imagine the tactics were good old fashioned flattery and the good old fashioned feel sorry for me.quite a combination.
At the end of the day our spouses were ready to be taken, by whomever came along.you cannot poach what wasn't willing to be taken.
Sd
X
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I agree with superdog.
I don't even know the girls name and it's been almost two years. It doesn't matter, if it wasn't her it would be someone else. She is not that special. It was just an easy way for him to escape.
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Attaching
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Maybe all these psychological theories are just that theories - poachers, MLC etc, etc. We will never really know the answers when we try to understand the workings of the human mind by using the limitations of our own human mind. So maybe, just maybe.......the answer can only come from the spiritual/higher self.
http://www.theworkbook.org/text5f.htm
Please listen to video clip is was very enlightening.
moment
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Very interesting name. Mate poaching!
I know that happened when we were separated in 2004 and he was hell bent on having a revenge affair. The b.... was definitely a mate poacher. She was a lot younger,white trash,three kids not with her,drunk,bar ho. Then during this process I was out of the house and living somewhere else. She tried saying she was pregnant by someone else. I always knew she was trying to move into my life with a house and working guy. She was a vicious person.
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Don't think anyone was saying that our MLCers were not responsible for this whole sorry mess superdog.
Thanks for posting that clip Moment.
Mirrors a lot of what RCR speaks of in her writing too, just from a slightly different angle.
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Kiki, my post was in relation to mate poaching. I am saying that its easy enough to work out who is ripe for poaching and who isnt. The tactics would fail at the first hurdle otherwise.
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Couldn't agree more superdog.
What's changed though is how frequently this is happening, and the changing societal shift of a shrug of the shoulders and acceptance.
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I agree with the thoughts of "predators " and "mate poaching " and knew from the moment I discovered who the OW was that this was part of her ploy. She has done this before .. several times . It is amazing how apparrently naive and stupid in " the ways of some women my husband was ". I thought he could spot or smell " the scent of trash". Turns out I was right , he could sense the willingness, easy " ho in heat " that she was . In his right state of mind ( his words ) he NEVER would have went anywhere near this stench. But his mindset ( or lack of ) knew instinctually that she would allow herself to be a playtoy for a broken man . Sort of like a dog in heat and every male dog in a 2 mile radius can smell or sense this . I have asked my husband why he did not approach any number of other women that come and go from our home and life ( 5 daughters ... there are lots of women that come and go ). He knew who would never sleep with a married man and who would .. not consciously , but I believe certain women have an aura of cheap , easy and deperate . Broken men seem to find these dumpster dames and the game is on .Her purpose is to use her sexual lady bits to provide him the ultimate sexual experience ( believing his wife is a frigid cow ) and hopes it will secure him in some sexual lockdown etc and secures money, vacations, security and basically " my life ".... I belive this 100% in my case . Mate poaching , grabbing a man that has a long long history of faithfullnes, responsibility committment ,extreme hardworker , assets , money etc and making "him mine " will make some women preform sexually easily, willingly and with great passion blah blah .. we all know great actresses . She forgets so many things ...at 55 years old , there is NO sexual experience he has not already experienced . None . Unless she can turn into a billy goat and he enjoys that . She forgets that 1/2 his financial success /assets etc are MINE . He will not turn into a liquid asset over night .. guaranteed . Thirdly , he is now old. He has not got another 30 years of career pursuit and climbing the ladder in him. I fact, if she had have " won my husband "... she would be his nurse now , not vacationing in Bora Bora .Many many things she said , prove this theory to me but he saw none of it as he is certifiably brain dead. My husband's affair with this McFling was like number 8 in a line up at McDonald of broken men that want to be serviced quickly, cheaply , with little effort and no thought to the clean up. Makes him "not so special". He remains 100 % responsible for going near a dumpster in the 1st place ... but she with out question, was a "mate poacher ". An acrobatic , sex bunny hoping for a new car , a new future and my life .. she accomplished none of it . Do, off she will go to do the same with someone else's husband ... mine was stupid enough to be married man number 3 ( she told him that ???) . Some women should not be allowed in society as they can cause more pain and emotional devastation than some men that are in prison for life.
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I walked into Walmart last night and a state policeman was taking a young woman out in handcuffs. And what for? Trying to steal some 20 or 30 dollar item? What would somebody be willing to do to get their hands on half of the accumulated assets of 20 or 30 or more years of hard work? Mate poach? There used to be a law against it but most states took the law off the books.
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Yes mine was willing to go for the white trash the first time. He was reeling from my mess that I did. Perfect for trouble.
I also believe in predators too. Not just mate poachers. In 2003 I was not looking for an affair. I was going through a crisis though. The OM started after me,with the flirting and interest. Why I don't know? Was I giving off some distress pheromone? He was younger,married/ divorcing with a young child. I was no prize. Married,4 kids,just going back into the work field. His wife was beautiful and successful from what I was told. I fell for it though. All the interest at just the right time in my life. When I felt like I lived in a black hole. It ruined my marriage and I believe caused ptsd in my h,leading to this mess now.
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Yep exow stole from a private home a Dr elderly mother took her jewelry..said the old woman threw it out..yeah sure...the ex finally saw through that and set her up and had her arrested.
after that I guess he thought he was a big undercover cop.
They assume they are dealing with someone as honest as we are. She stole stuff from the house after he moved her in.
After the $h!te I went through I'll have him arrested if he comes near me again.
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The OW that my H is living with was definitely a predator. When I started looking at the phone bills, her number was practically the only number listed under his number. She called him constantly. I never knew he had so much to talk about! Since they are living together, I wonder how that neediness is working out for him? I wonder how great that new piece of a** is now that his boys won't even speak to him? Nothing is ever that good!
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Lanzo, it's really none of my business but I'm curious whether your wife was ever abused when she was younger.
I have absolutely no idea, I have seen no evidence to suggest she was, but clearly she has some issue with sex after seeing some of the stuff she's getting up.
Something I haven't mentioned before but apart from the sex video she seem to have this thing about photographing the guy's junk in her hand, I found quite a few pictures of this even going back to the original OM when camera phones were in their infancy. I was shocked by all of this as throughout our marriage she acted all prim and proper and never really got over excited by sex.
Part of the reason I keep half an eye on her is I would really like to find out what her problem is, I suppose it would give me a bit more closure.
Lanzo
Sorry to return to your previous question brain but I was asked the same thing when I very first came to this site, I just found my answer.
Again another thing for my understanding.
One of the things I read about in MLC is that that the MLC’er is reverting back to their past and is trying to address un resolved issues maybe even issues from their childhood. From what I know of W childhood I cannot see anything untoward in terms of abuse or anything like that, in fact her childhood was very loving and caring.
The only thing I can think of was W parents allowed her to live like a teenager, partying late, dating older guys, sleeping in until the afternoon pretty much until she met me aged 30. Once we were dating and eventually got married all of that stopped. So from single girl to expectant wife in a short space of time.
Just recently I read my very first internet post where W was saying she felt trapped in the marriage and wanted to run away from all of that. Maybe she’s reverting back to that that single lady phase, replay, one more time. Or am am I wide of the mark and unresolved issues are not a factor in all of this.
For this post I’m just looking for some insite into unresolved issues in MLC and how they manifest themselves.
Thanks
Lanzo
So the bottom line is I am non the wiser.
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The only thing I heard from the ex was he'd taken a wrong turn somewhere when he got involved with me.
As far as the exow? Someone he saw once on a beach at 17. He didn't even talk to her. He tried to justify having history with her.
I told him "Seeing someone's ass in a bikini on a beach for 15 minutes thirty some odd years ago doesn't constitute history"
He's acted about 17 all his life..sometimes 13...sometimes 2.
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Attaching.
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My H. OW was a total predator.
She used his iPad and I have been looking through the google history and knew it was her searches. She put things like How to cook carrots. :o. Also googled for shopping re dresses. My H rarely googles any searches. One of the telling things was she had googled how to hack into accounts and photo screen savers.
She comes across as so deceitful and conniving. Anyone who followed my threads around Oct/Nov last year will know she paid for a holiday in Malaysia for them both. I read an email she sent from my H account to the Hotel they were going to be going to and she was asking to upgrade the room but for the payment to be made once they arrived. It cost £900 just to upgrade and my H paid for the upgrade. He agreed to pay for the meals and spending money because she bought the holiday and she then expects him to pay all that money to upgrade a room.
I will never know how much that ow cost him economically. I shudder to think how much he spent on her over the years.
These Partner Snatchers are narcissists and money grabbing low lifes.
Take care
HMT
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I wasn't thinking of OW1 as a predator at first as she had written H an email saying she didn't want to get involved with a married man. However she continued to show up at the same places as him and email him as "friends"!
With OW2-he could very well be lying to both of us but he apparently broke up with her and was trying to figure out our relationship. I was over at his place a few weeks ago and after he fell asleep a twat shot showed up on his phone with "Miss me?". He has been leaving his phone out and face up so I'm not sure he was expecting that. I haven't mentioned it as I didn't want him to get secretive and am waiting to see if it comes out.
I can't imagine myself ever behaving like either of them.
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I was over at his place a few weeks ago and after he fell asleep a twat shot showed up on his phone with "Miss me?".
I have to ask the men on here. Is this attractive? Anyone who follows my threads know that I am far from a prude but I would never do this. A nude photo?,... sure (even though would seem risky on the phone) but a "twat shot" well, that just seems very low class and just plain gross.
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All I can say is may be "that" is the only thing they measure their value as....a disembodied twat.
Sure is insulting to think of what kind of pig $h!te some like to wallow in right?
Gee can you tell I am in anger phase right now? 8)
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I was over at his place a few weeks ago and after he fell asleep a twat shot showed up on his phone with "Miss me?".
I have to ask the men on here. Is this attractive? Anyone who follows my threads know that I am far from a prude but I would never do this. A nude photo?,... sure (even though would seem risky on the phone) but a "twat shot" well, that just seems very low class and just plain gross.
Thanks for posting that Nah, I was wondering the very same thing. I have sent H inside the bra cleavage shots while he was on the road but something that explicit seemed pretty disgusting to me as well.
SP, you are probably right about that even if the MLCer doesn't want to admit it about their "soul mates". This is the same woman who was willing to have a three way with him, as long as it was a stranger and not me. He even said that that was messed up so I wonder if he found her picture attractive.
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nah & bp-
If you want an HONEST answer: Yes.
You have to remember, guys are VISUAL, and women are EMOTIONAL. This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but its the same reason guys more often than gals have dirty magazines, look at porn, goto strip clubs, etc. Us guys, in general, are visually stimulated.
As to me personally, while me and the spouse have exchanged our fair share of "naughty" pics via txts, my libido is so low now a days, it doesn't do much for me anymore.
In my younger days, the physical connection was very high on the importance list; now-a-days, its the emotional one.
Maybe that goes along with the articles on the site where it talks about (in essence) as we age, women become more like men and vice versa. Maybe our MLCers are hanging on to that youth and don't want to go through that "growth"? (Especially male MLCers that don't want to lose that "drive"-I know that use to scare the HELL out of me).
-T
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I think when a man (or woman) go in their crisis they are very vulnerable. ANY attention goes to their head, doesn't matter who it's from or what kind of person they are. It could be an innocent word or 2 said to they but somehow it feeds their bruised ego. They enjoyed the attention.
When I look back to the beginning of my X's MLC there was no ow, but he had quite a talk with my oldest son.. (who was divorced at the time). My son set up a meet because he was really shocked by my H wanting a D.
They were always very close and he knew him very well and looked up to him.
My S told me some of the conversation (probably not all) but H was talking about some older, married woman at work who was complimenting him on his body. He was weighing himself and she said he looked PERFECT to her...while staring into his eyes. Who knows if that stare was real or in his head but it flattered him.
Then he talked about another time while he was backpacking, some hot (his words) woman jogged through his campsite. She stopped to talk to him and play with the dogs. When it was apparent this woman was hanging around a little too long he asked her if there was something he could do for her. She got a little embarrassed and said..oh no I just wanted to stop and say hi to your beautiful dogs and jogged off. I think at this point he knew he was getting uncomfortable being with her so long, knew it was wrong and stopped it. But I also think he felt a stir.
There were a few other instances that happened, but my point is I think he was becoming vulnerable and these few episodes, which were probably innocent, set the wheels in motion. He started thinking about all these available women out there and the fantasy took hold. I bet my son was floored he was actually talking to him about other women.
My son did, also, say my H was acting completely out of character. He was flirting with women as they pasted by, etc. It sickened him and he said, mom I think you just need to let him go. He could see H was not himself and worried for me.
So predator or not these MICer's are ripe for the picking. I blame them completely. They become weak and self absorbed and just seem to go with what ever they want with no regard for anyone else. Morals out the window. These ow's/om's could be anyone.
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Attaching.
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From my point of view (and using the video link posted in the man cave as reference, The one Thundarr shared with his colleague) I would expect to receive such a picture from a woman that would be classed as little bit crazy and little bit hot, someone you would keep in the friend zone to have lots of fun with, but not necessarily someone to marry or meet the family. The fact that she is sending you “the money shot” means you will be “getting yourself some of that” very soon , not many men would turn that down. So while some may not find the picture appealing, the things that you are going to get from it are, the man is being mentally stimulated.
As an aside, while I was in the mode of searching through xW stuff, many of you may know that I found the sex video(s) of her and the OM at the time, there were also a number of pictures of her holding the guy’s junk in her hand (give away was the long, well manicured, painted nails). There were also a couple of pictures of them sat on the bed, back to the wall, knees up to the chest with there laptop resting on them, not sure how they took the pictures but I think they were watching videos of themselves. All of xW good were on display, and I think this was the stuff there were sharing with each other.
I have to admit that I saw more of xW’s business in that computer file than I ever did in the whole of our marriage.
Lanzo
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Hey, if you guys say so then I believe you. I always thought saying something like "I'm not wearing any panties" was sexier than the "money shot", until we got into the bedroom.
New flash- in general, most men are easy. When I was out there all I really had to do was smile, maybe "accidentally" brush against my target and Boom, I was in. I don't understand the need to whip out the "money shot", it seems so desperate, which to me is very unattractive.
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She used his iPad and I have been looking through the google history and knew it was her searches. She put things like How to cook carrots.
I am not touching the twat shot comments with a ten-foot pole (pun intended). But the carrot line gave me my laugh of the day. Did she also search for "how to boil water"?
Hugs,
HT
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From another male's perception, I have always gone by the thought of less is more attractive. Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but there is something to say about being dignified and confident, without having to show up all your "goods". Don't get me wrong, I am not a prude, because I do like to see attractive women both fully clothed and scantily clad. I do believe part of the male brain is arroused and hormonal releases at the site of female human flesh. But to me, strip clubs were never about visual pleasure. Although I did frequent them on rare occasions, it was not something I did on a routine basis. More of a Guys Night Out.
Sometimes I feel that people (either male or female) use photos of private areas to act like a little child and are visually screaming "Hey, look at me, I have to be noticed to feel alive" I wonder how many people after all is said and done truly regret sending photos that later show up in the wrong places at the wrong times!
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Bailmor,
I completely agree with you. Sexy can be just the slightest peek.
I never would send any naked pix over my cell. I'd be too afraid I'd accidently send it to one of my kids or sisters. :o
Imagine living that one down! :-[
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Bailmor,
I completely agree with you. Sexy can be just the slightest peek.
I never would send any naked pix over my cell. I'd be too afraid I'd accidently send it to one of my kids or sisters. :o
Imagine living that one down! :-[
A male coworker of mine accidentally sent one to his brother in law...so funny.
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Yep, that'd be my luck. :-[
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And with the way the cyber world is currently, those pictures NEVER are truly erased. Nver know where they could show up!
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Exactly! Surely not worth the risk. Naked "in person" is much better and safer.
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nah, there's only one reason why I would ever be with someone who would do something like that. You figure it out. And I hope I never get so desperate that I would be with somebody like that but, as you said, men are easy. I certainly wouldn't consider any possibility of an LTR. I respect myself too much to be with somebody that vulgar. I think tasteful displays are much more sexy and provocative. I have a pretty good imagination and I do like to use it.
I don't know how you ever get past seeing what Lanzo saw. It's not so much the act but the need to record it that bothers me.
I hope they don't kick me out of the Man Cave now.
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Brain, I'm sure there are many reasons you wouldn't go for a person who would do something like that.
The year before BD, my husband started talking about "rainbow parties" (if you don't know what it is, explicit warning before you look it up). He mentioned them way too much and would often say how kids these days are lucky b/c in his day, girls didn't do that. Again, I am far from a prude but my response was, you have a daughter, and I wouldn't want our son mixed up in something like that either. Why would you even talk about such a thing?
Again, I don't understand the need to go so low, so desperate for attention.
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Is the OP a predator...? Yes, most certainly. Without a shadow of a shadow of doubt. I spoke to Anne Bercht of Beyond Affairs.com once, and she described the OWs as people who 'got their claws into a vulnerable spouse. She also said (and let's face it, she's seen tens of thousands of cases) the affairing partner's life goes downhill thereafter.
My H met his affair 'partner' (funny choice of word) at a business party. He said something like 'She was in the right place at the wrong time...'
Could have been anyone willing to gaze up at him and make him feel twice his size, at a time in his life when he was feeling small.... She was married at the time, with a 4 year old. Told him she new as she was walking up the aisle with her H that she was making a mistake. The marriage had lasted 6 years. What likely timescale for the desperate, fake relationship with an MLC-er, I wonder?
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...
Again, I don't understand the need to go so low, so desperate for attention.
Wow, you guys were starting to make me feel a little bad since I admitted that "sexting" naked pics was a turn on (for *most* guys)..
But I don't feel too liberal-Never heard of a "rainbow" party-had to look that up.
This may be direct and to the point, and in some ways a little offensive (hope not):
Going through what I have been through, a wise acquaintance (whom I believe possibly went thru MLC himself, not sure) said to me:
"I'm convinced *most* of us will sow our wild oats at some point in our lives. If we are lucky, we get it done on the front end. Unfortunately, some of don't get it done until the back end."
Kids are certainly more brazen and promiscuous then we were at that age...or ARE they? Don't see much difference between a "rainbow" party, and the "free love, peace, and hair grease" era from the 60s generation. Remember the "Ass, gas, or grass" bumper stickers...
Could it not be, that just some of our MLCers missed out on sowing those wild oats? I will admit it, I did. And so did my spouse. Hmmm, I had an attempt at high energy replay, and now my spouse is MLC...coincidence? I know we all talk about foo issues, and unresolved childhood trama's, but putting the psychology away for a second, could it not in some cases, be as simple as this?
-T
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This veers off the current subject, but seems relevant to the topic.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/robbie-zimmer/2014/07/i-am-your-husbands-mid-life-crisis/
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"I'm convinced *most* of us will sow our wild oats at some point in our lives. If we are lucky, we get it done on the front end. Unfortunately, some of don't get it done until the back end."
Could it not be, that just some of our MLCers missed out on sowing those wild oats?
TNT,
This notion of not having that chance previously may cross the MLCer's mind, but I think as an explanation for MLC it is way too simplistic. It does fit my situation--H & I dated Sr. year, became intimate after grad, married at 20, neither of us really dated anyone else. But, he waited until age 55 to sow his wild oats at the back end? Faithfully married for 35 years & then has to have a fling ? And he didn't just sow some wild oats. He was/is depressed. He didn't just have a fling or two. He became emotionally bonded to this OW--"we are so emotionally close; we are a team" ??? :'( :P . He betrayed all of the values of his inner self through years of lying, cheating, manipulating me, & abandoning me. A little oats sowing is more typical of "normal" affairs--short-lived things that the cheater immediately regrets & runs from pretty quickly.
I don't buy it. And I don't buy this article either.
This veers off the current subject, but seems relevant to the topic.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/robbie-zimmer/2014/07/i-am-your-husbands-mid-life-crisis/
"I am, of course, the opposite of everything you are. I am young, free, beautiful, selfish, melancholy.
My H's alienator is 10 years younger than us, but was still 45 at the beginning & already a grandmother. She wasn't free, she was also M'ed & stayed M'ed right up until joint BD day. She's not beautiful--she's fat & matronly-looking & dresses the part. She does check the box on selfish--she's helped destroy two families & yeah, check melancholy off too--she was depressed after BD; poor thing felt "kinda bad" about the devastation she wrought & had to see a IC.
This article has some glimmers of reality, but it basically perpetuates the myth that the MLCer falls for the young, hot thing & he just can't control his lustful loins. You don't have to read long here to find lots of older OW's, fat & unattractive OP's & many of them are also M'ed when the infidelity begins. Pretty common here too to read that the MLCer is the one having "equipment" problems prior to BD, not the stereotypical notion that the LBS wasn't "putting out" enough.
The MLCer doesn't fall for someone who is so beautiful or so intelligent or so fascinating, they can't help but be drawn away from us into their snare. They get sucked into the clutches of someone who is morally bankrupt enough to pursue a M'ed person, in many cases a M'ed person with children at home. I don't know who coined this thought, but the MLCer doesn't look for someone better than their spouse, they fall for someone worse than themselves.
RCR' s articles explain MLC way better than these two theories.
IMHO
Hugs,
HT
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HT-I agree that it is an overly simplistic way of looking at it, and of course every situation is unique in its own right. There may very well be some deep seated unresolved issues, but I hate to say it, in some ways, I think that statement that my acquaintance made does cut through all the Freudian analytics and cuts right to the point.
Not that age is any indicator of knowledge or wisdom, but the gentleman that told me that is 70 years old, and has lived a lot of life. Although he never elaborated, I have a sneaky suspicion he has first hand knowledge of what he was talking about.
I know it also goes back to "believe none of what they do, and only half of what they say", but my stbx on the night b4 she split told our D15 "I don't see myself marrying this guy-I just want to go have my fun." Of course all bets are off, and she is free to change her mind many many times, but I think that was a pretty indicative statement of "I missed out in my youth".
Again, every sitch is different, but I can't discount the man's experience.
-T
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TNT,
You're right that every situation has its unique elements. And I do have to acknowledge the lack of wild-oat sowing in my H's early years & that at BD he told me the infidelity began with him wanting to "have a lark" with this OW he encountered online, that they first met to "have meaningless sex" & only after some time "fell in love & wanted to be together" :P :P :P :P :P .
My problem with this theory is that my H, completely faithful for 35 years, a role model of honesty & integrity & dependability, had to have something "not right" going on for him to lie directly to my face & walk out of our home to have sex with a person he met on the internet. This wasn't a "I'm away alone on a trip, I'm half drunk, & this babe is coming on to me" impulsive roll in the hay. This was a deliberate, progressive, sinking into the deep, manipulative pattern of behavior over months & months & then years.
The adoration of the OP & the rush of new sex & infatuation must make it all feel like there are lots of wild oats being sown, but the lack of conscience, the lack of empathy for & blaming of the spouse, & their emotional emptiness indicate that something much deeper is going on.
Not arguing. Wish it was just wild oats. They have a much shorter season than MLC :P .
Hugs,
HT
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HT,
I'm thinking that the MLCer may start it as meaningless sex, but their moral code is still yelling at them in the background (even if they don't recognize it as such) and this is what causes them to convince themselves that this OP is the "love of their life" or whatever. Because how many people who feel crappy enough about life to have to run away think "I think I'll go out and have no emotional connection with anyone." They are actually looking for an emotional connection and don't realize the emotional connection missing link is in them. So if they have sex with this OP, they must be in love with them, right? How else can they justify themselves?
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HT, those were some great posts, especially this:
The MLCer doesn't fall for someone who is so beautiful or so intelligent or so fascinating, they can't help but be drawn away from us into their snare. They get sucked into the clutches of someone who is morally bankrupt enough to pursue a M'ed person, in many cases a M'ed person with children at home. I don't know who coined this thought, but the MLCer doesn't look for someone better than their spouse, they fall for someone worse than themselves.
My wife's SIL believes this might be wild oats on her part. On the surface the idea seems like it might have merit. I was the first guy my wife was allowed to date, we married two months before her 18th birthday. But why do you go for 36 years without an interest in sowing wild oats and then do it by moving in with a fat slug whose idea of a good time seems to be sitting at home watching TV and drinking beer? That's not sowing wild oats, that's collecting a spud. I do think the lack of experience probably made the infatuation of a new relationship very exciting and confusing but I think HT's right about there being so many more facets to MLC.
I agree that it would be nice if it were wild oats because it would end more quickly but I think I would also find it more difficult to forgive an indulgence vs. an existential crisis.
I've always enjoyed learning but I resisted googling rainbow party until T wrote that he had looked it up, so I followed his lead. (Good thing he didn't jump off a bridge. ;) ) I could have lived without that bit of knowledge. I was around during the sixties and I still think it's a different world today.
Again, I am far from a prude but my response was, you have a daughter, and I wouldn't want our son mixed up in something like that either. Why would you even talk about such a thing?
Exactly, holy crap!
Brain, I'm sure there are many reasons you wouldn't go for a person who would do something like that.
Very true, but there's one reason why I might. And I think it's sad if a woman thinks her worth is based on that one reason. And, after everything I've learned recently, I might wonder if she has some deep, unresolved childhood trauma she's trying to work through. Even more sad. OTOH, she might just be a sick SOB.
She also said (and let's face it, she's seen tens of thousands of cases) the affairing partner's life goes downhill thereafter.
UKS, thanks for posting this. This has been my fear for my wife from the beginning. I told my first therapist I was afraid this would happen to my wife if we didn't get back together. She asked me if I really believed that would happen because she had left me. I told her no but I believe it will happen because of the bad choices she's making and the situation she has put herself into. If I were vengeful it might be satisfying to see this happen but I love her too much to want to see this happen to her. And she's still my children's mother and my grandchildren's grandma.
This is definitely an interesting discussion, And educational too. :o
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HT,
I'm thinking that the MLCer may start it as meaningless sex, but their moral code is still yelling at them in the background (even if they don't recognize it as such) and this is what causes them to convince themselves that this OP is the "love of their life" or whatever....
I find this interesting...I've been at this for 9 months now, so some of the earlier BD stuff is getting a little foggy, but I remember one night after a fight spouse went to stay a a motel by herself to sort things out (OM lives in another state, so I absolutely believe she was alone). I was angry and hurt and was giving it to w both barrels. Next thing I know I get a txt from her brother telling me to leave her alone. That really got under my skin...
Anyway, come to find out, she was on the verge of suicide. I think she was torn between "her moral code" and that what she was torn to do. Of course in the end, she abandoned her moral code in favor of her desires.
-T
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It was hard for me to select a quote b/c I was nodding my head though out all this dialogue.
IMO, and only my opinion, I think male and female "MLC" or whatever you want to call it is different. For men, I think it has a lot to do with low "T", equipment issues, and thinking they are losing their "manhood". Just for now I want to focus on the women b/c well, my husband leaving did throw me into my own "MLC" and I feel I can explain what is in their minds.
On the outside, I was the perfect wife and mom, married at 19, a virgin when we met, head of the PTA, Girl scouts, stay at home mom, gardening, baking bread, etc.,,, My husband would often comment how his friends, co-workers were jealous of how he had such a pretty, sexy, devoted wife. I was in the popular crowd in high school, I pretty much ditched my friends to be with husband. I was married young with small kids, they were out partying, sometimes I would see them and listen to their stories but, I was not part of that world. Sometimes I would be jealous of their lives, and they often said how lucky I was to have such a "perfect life", grass is greener kind of thing.
In my 20's and 30's I would get a lot of attention just walking down the street or at the beach b/c I do have a better than average figure. In my 40's that started to fade, yes, I still look good for 48 but I am 48 and I look 48. Now my nieces and daughter get that kind of attention more than I do. Sure, it's superficial, but I'm just being honest.
But why do you go for 36 years without an interest in sowing wild oats and then do it by moving in with a fat slug whose idea of a good time seems to be sitting at home watching TV and drinking beer? That's not sowing wild oats, that's collecting a spud.
When your marriage is good, your wife is not going to tell you that she is fantasizing about the hot latino mailman (or whatever) but I did fantasize most of our marriage. I often had crushes on coworkers, neighbors, friends, but I loved my husband so it was just harmless fantasies. The interest was there the whole time but my life with husband was more important to me.
Then my husband BD me.
Anyone who reads my thread knows what happened next. I lived out all my fantasies in about a year. I had a mental checklist, hot young guy...check, black guy...check, one night stand with a stranger, check, etc. I'm not going to lie, the sex was hot, exciting, wild, I felt sexy and alive. I could walk into a club filled with college kids (with a good friend my age and very attractive) and we would walk past all the young girls and have our pick of the best looking guys. Wild oats sowed. Now what? What was fun in the beginning now started to feel dirty and sad. This was just not me.
The big difference between me and the female MLCers is I did not destroy my family, my husband did. My friends, and coworkers called me "Stella" (as in got her grove back) b/c they knew how heartbroken I was about husband. But what if I was the one who just picked up and left a good man, disregarding the feelings of my children to act like a $l()t? That's why I feel these women stick with these "spuds", b/c in their minds they are not bad if they are doing all these things in the name of love.
After 25+ years of being a moral, good mother and wife, how could I look anybody in the eyes and admit that I destroyed my entire family for no good reason except, I was bored.
Too simple?
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Yes nah...bored --> now very excited with new lover and validator. And, the worst thing is that they stay with these people...or whatever they are-->manipulators. How can they not... after telling everyone in their family how awful we were and now our families hate them for the extreme pain that they have caused us!!!
My xH had a phone call in Jan of 2010 from his sister telling him that his ex high school GF (from 33 years ago) had shown up for a visit to his parents house while here to visit her sick father in the hospital. On Valentine's Day of 2010, he located her number thru the internet and called her on his way home from work. They spoke for 10 minutes....that was the end of my marriage as I knew it. Four weeks later he spoke of divorce and 4 weeks after that he filed for the D while still at home with us. He got more and more angry every day and started to yell at myself and our son every night during dinner. I couldn't stand it...it was horrible to see happen to my family. At the end of June...he walked out for his own apartment as OW was coming in 2 weeks for another visit and she wanted him to have his own place by then so they could be together (or... could he sneak away from his family a few times at night)....so he did.
One of our neighbors was going thru this also... the W (we didn't know who filed at that time) had filed for the D and they were still living together. Strangely, my H said to me one day before I knew what he was doing: I wonder what it feels like to be divorcing and still living together? I found that statement very weird. I guess he found out what it felt like after all but never mentioned it again. I am aware that he has been sick many times and had to go to the ER twice for anxiety attacks since then. Once was 6 months or so after the left and the second time was 2.5 years later and our son had to take him to the ER. I was not told why but S did tell me that if I knew why, he would take him back to court to have S removed from him. I did not do that. S told me why after he started to feel left out of his fathers life. Now, after 4.5 years and S going off the school in another state, xH bought a house last October and is now living with the OW. Good for him! I wonder how that is going? I will never know bc he never talks to me and he won't let our S19 sleep there any longer when he comes home from school to visit. S19 is feeling very left out now! Hmm, welcome to my world S. Have you figured it out yet S? I know he has! Too sad and too old for me to talk about anymore. I feel that xH will never apologize or change his new life! He has become his mask and it is ugly! Not my problem anymore. He continues to get sick often....I do not! Maybe a little bit of Karma right there! ;)
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Wow nah, I could almost have written what you posted.
It was the same for me after my 1st H left me for a ow. I was a stay at home mom and would never have cheated on my H, even though I had opportunities. Just wasn't in me. I was always the "good girl."
After my H left me I hit the ground running. Had almost all the checks you had. I also had an above average figure and at 35 I had my pick of men. I learned to party pretty fast.
After a few years of it I was tired of it. My gf's laughed...party ME was sick of the bar scene? Yes, I was done.
I met my 2nd H in a bar and right from the start we connected in an amazing way. Emotionally, sexually,...blah, blah...
Even though we had an age difference, it didn't matter. After 7 years we were in it enough to get married and we were close and happy for 27 years. Then MLC hit!
Now looking back, I think part of my X's problems might have been partially due to the fact that he never had much experience with other woman. Never really had a serious gf. Didn't "sow his wild oats."
He never had any problem with his sex drive or performance. So that wasn't ever and still isn't a problem for him.
I believe his MLC is mainly from him aging. He was getting a lot of gray hair, a small spare around his waste and getting a few wrinkles. But I also think he felt a need to be with different woman. Like he maybe felt he lost out on something.
He still has not had a ow but there are days I wonder if some day he will. He doesn't seem interested in looking anymore but who knows?
Didn't mean to go on and on or railroad this thread but your post just brought me back, nah. : ) I've said it before you sound so much like me it's down right scary. lol
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Thunder, like your MLCer my boyfriend is younger than me. He, however, has sowed enough oats to feed a 3rd world country, so maybe I'm safe with this one.
Can you imagine if we knew each other when we both were going through our crazy time? The world would never had been the same. ;D ;D
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I'm thinking that the MLCer may start it as meaningless sex, but their moral code is still yelling at them in the background (even if they don't recognize it as such) and this is what causes them to convince themselves that this OP is the "love of their life" or whatever. Because how many people who feel crappy enough about life to have to run away think "I think I'll go out and have no emotional connection with anyone." They are actually looking for an emotional connection and don't realize the emotional connection missing link is in them. So if they have sex with this OP, they must be in love with them, right? How else can they justify themselves?
OR,
Agree completely with this! In the vast majority of situations here, are spouses were not serial cheaters. And this is the missing link between "How did this honest, honorable, formerly faithful person do this?" to lying, adultery, "falling in love" with an affair-down alienator, & abandoning their family.
The MLC infidelity clouds everyone's vision so much. It is so overwhelming for everyone involved. We can be told "it is only a symptom of MLC", that the alienator is "nothing special, just the first willing & available", that the infidelity is "just a distraction" from their depression & emptiness, but it doesn't feel that way to us, the MLCer certainly doesn't see it that way, & the world is confused by fairy tales, romantic fables, & sleazy TV shows.
If our MLCer's look so empty, if they can't maintain an emotional connection to us, to our kids, to our friends, how do they make a connection to an OP? You hit it on the head--they don't. They think they do. On BD day I got "We (H & the OW) are so emotionally close & we (he & I) aren't any more". But the emotional connection isn't to the alienator. It is to the drug, to the "cocaine" of pursuit & intrigue & adoration & infatuation. This all feels so much like "love" to the MLCer & this "love" then justifies, in their minds, what has happened. They don't take responsibility for their choices & actions; they believe that all of this, this "falling in love" & what had to follow just happened to them.
Hugs,
HT
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...
Again, I don't understand the need to go so low, so desperate for attention.
Wow, you guys were starting to make me feel a little bad since I admitted that "sexting" naked pics was a turn on (for *most* guys)..
But I don't feel too liberal-Never heard of a "rainbow" party-had to look that up.
This may be direct and to the point, and in some ways a little offensive (hope not):
Going through what I have been through, a wise acquaintance (whom I believe possibly went thru MLC himself, not sure) said to me:
"I'm convinced *most* of us will sow our wild oats at some point in our lives. If we are lucky, we get it done on the front end. Unfortunately, some of don't get it done until the back end."
Kids are certainly more brazen and promiscuous then we were at that age...or ARE they? Don't see much difference between a "rainbow" party, and the "free love, peace, and hair grease" era from the 60s generation. Remember the "Ass, gas, or grass" bumper stickers...
Could it not be, that just some of our MLCers missed out on sowing those wild oats? I will admit it, I did. And so did my spouse. Hmmm, I had an attempt at high energy replay, and now my spouse is MLC...coincidence? I know we all talk about foo issues, and unresolved childhood trama's, but putting the psychology away for a second, could it not in some cases, be as simple as this?
-T
Yep absolutely agree T.
Too much childhood crap , they blame everything on it these days. Sometimes l think shrinks are just lazy or no good because that's all they seem to know or wanna get into.
The wild oats is huge . It's huge with women and it's huge with men.
So many here got married so young to . l'd hate to fight the odds of trying to stay married when you started so young.
But l know in seeing so many stories around here and in the other club l was in , l can see to , that a lot of the dplits were about the marriage itself , or married so young , lots of core things.
l believe even mine was stuff like that , even though w was actually in early menopause . We had had a really rough few years , l was playing up and it did hurt her very deeply.
Although she did show a lot of the mlc symptoms to l must admit.
But basically she some how met some supposedly very gentle kind of guy and being so hurt and confused and tired from the way l'd been , through stress and lots of other stuff , given her health state and depression , l can see why she bailed . Why she ran out of steam with us.
l can see why she blocked her love and pushed it away in the end.
So l'm not all that sure if she was even in mlc tbh , same with some others l see around us.
Because there is also such a thing as just being tired from the marriage, trying so long , the hard work of marriage and family and setting up life and all the trials and tribs . Two people or one of them , just getting on the others nerves in the end , the whole bit and many reasons .
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Those are good points Hawk, and probably part of this but again and again, I have to ask myself why the excessive cruelty and disrespect? My H could have just moved out and ended the marriage but he moved 30 min away to the area we had always wanted to live in but it was too expensive. He spends maybe 3 hours a week with our girls. Before he moved out I dealt with finding a box of condoms in the car I take my kids to school in(on Christmas Day), his dating sites, and emails from OW1. Most people on here have far worse thrown in their faces. They could sow their wild oats with much less damage.
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l also reckon some failing equipment with some is a bit like mlc or childhood stuff , just excuses and crap.
Women are failing to , lose looks and body and things falling to bits even down below , no different. And they wanna see if they can still do it and still have it, same thing there's absolutely no difference . But they tend to think all that stuff doesn't even matter for a women but believe me , it does , all of it.
There's also the huge issue for guys to and maybe it's the same for women l'm not sure but then why do they wanna get married then but in that it is very very hard to stay with just one women forever and stay interested . And these days with the clothes out their and plenty of girls quite happy to ware them, all the temptation and often handed to you on a plate. l'm not even sure if one women is even natural because it's near impossible .
For me , that was the hardest part of staying married and in the end , it got me.
And l was worried sick about sex having to be forever tbh and the guilt killed me. l never stopped loving my w but l needed a change sexually. l'm not sure what the answer is if you wanna stay married.
That can be put down and talked off into all sorts of bs and excuses but at the end of the day , it's really often as simple as that.
It's damn hard holding things together being married .
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Just piping in that my EX went for some one 16 yrs younger who still lived at home and was barely an adult in my book. I do believe the OW pursued as I was also friends with her and had the feeling prior she wanted the life I had. So in this case, the OW was just in need of another parent who could give her what she wanted that her real parents had not or could not.
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Those are good points Hawk, and probably part of this but again and again, I have to ask myself why the excessive cruelty and disrespect? My H could have just moved out and ended the marriage but he moved 30 min away to the area we had always wanted to live in but it was too expensive. He spends maybe 3 hours a week with our girls. Before he moved out I dealt with finding a box of condoms in the car I take my kids to school in(on Christmas Day), his dating sites, and emails from OW1. Most people on here have far worse thrown in their faces. They could sow their wild oats with much less damage.
Yeah , l know there's so much of that here to bipo and that l personally think is pure and simple true mlc , full on .
l don't understand that cruelty either although l can tell in some of it, it's probably pent up resentment and maybe the lbs was just not really in tune to the way they'd effected him or her over years and years.
But so many are as you say to and l reckon that is pure mlc.
Mine was reasonably heartless , l don't know if l would call it cruel , stupid maybe but nowhere near as bad as most here.
But really , l couldn't have blamed her because l'd very carelessly hurt her so much anyway .
l won't go into it now but l had basically done the same thing stupidly earlier and other things
But you are right and l'm not saying l get those ones at all accept for in some case but, sure many others had none of those excuses , they just went off their tree.
l don't know how they can do but then , l was nearly as bad but at least l didn't realize how bad l was hurting her or want to hurt her. With a lot of these it's like they want to .
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... I have to ask myself why the excessive cruelty and disrespect? ...
I can't speak for your sitch, and honestly may not have a clue about mine either, but looking back-I think spouse wanted an "amicable" split, to remain cordial, and "be friends". A "mutual" break up is SO much easier to justify. But when I "fought back" to save my marriage, then things "HAD" to get nasty, so I would eventually hate her, which would make her leaving justified. But who wants to have a mutual "break up" when you have over 20 years invested. Anyway, now that is pretty much where we are (although I don't "HATE" her-just wished either this had never happened, or at the very least I would have married someone else).
-T
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hawk,
I think what you said makes a lot of sense. I can understand it must be hard for men, probably harder for men. It takes a lot of courage and love to stay married to your spouse and not stray.
I guess I never really wanted another man. My H always excited me.
I think in the end my H was looking around, but he did divorce me before he did anything. Well, tried to do anything. At least he had enough morals left to do that. He can never be labeled a cheater.
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nah, the world wouldn't have been ready for 2 of us. ;D
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I agree with what nah said about her life pre-BD. I'm visually oriented and I've always enjoyed the sight of a pretty girl, I still do. But I never had any interest in being with anyone other than my wife. Even now 9 months after BD, with my wife telling me I should, I still am not interested in someone else. But I never lost my attraction for my wife. When we married she was slim and pretty, later she put on some weight, recently she lost some of the weight, and the whole time I found her enormously attractive. And for me sex without the emotional connection doesn't seem very attractive but I guess I'm just weird. Or maybe it's because I haven't tried it. It seems kind of sad to me, though. No offense to those who enjoy it.
And I believe that it was the same for my wife until this MLC started. And, even then, I have reason to believe the OM aggressively pursued her. I think she thought she was engaged in a harmless flirtation and he quickly moved it to a point she didn't expect and didn't want. And I think two things happened at that point. One is that she became infatuated and she had no real experience because she was so young when we got together so she thought she had something special with him. And the second thing, and I think this is what applies now, 9 months later, is that she has to keep telling herself that there was a good reason for blowing her marriage and family apart so, even if the OM isn't the love of her life, she must not have been in love with me any more.
Or maybe I'm in denial. But I know what we had for 36 years and it was real so I believe she's in a crisis and so do the people I've discussed this with.
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Another quick point-Hawk touched on this earlier...
Why do we warn our children NOT to get married so young. Serious, WHY exactly do we tell our children that?
For ME, my spouse got pregnant at 18 by first h. Its not that she had a bad life or anything. Actually, things were pretty good. BUT...she missed out on a LOT. Unfortunately, I see my oldest SS following in her footsteps. He married the woman he lost his virginity to. My SDIL has done it ALL. She got all that nonesense out of the way at a young age. Drugs, drinking, sex, you name it. SS was a "homebody" and a gamer. A little TMI, but she actually gave him two STDs. Now in his mid 20s with a baby, and career not really established yet. Although he has an okay job, chances are he won't finish college, and just continue on the path that is laid out in front of him without really taking the reins. He maintains he is content, and has no desire to "better himself". He is happy with his situation and doesn't subscribe to the need to better himself financially (on one hand, good for him for ignoring the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality, on the other you need to plan for later in life!).
I suspect once he hits midlife and has about 15-20 years behind him, he is going to feel he missed out on a lot, forgetting that it was HIS choice to begin with.
-T
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Just on the marrying so young thing . l know it's a terrible way to think of it but l just don;t think it has a hope , especially these days. Maybe our grandparents days and maybe a rare few these days but over all.
And just on the interest thing ,l have heard of some guys , even you B, that could stay with one women forever .
Even one of my brothers can too yet he comes from the same blood l do . As far as l know he's still very happily married.
The other brother though and of course same blood , he's always been in a very bad way , he has some how kept he's marriage together though none the less but l think they may even have an agreement l'd suspect or there is no way he would have made it.
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But exactly why NOT hawk? (I do agree with you).
I didn't mention my other SS, who also, despite my and spouses warnings got married young as well.
I kind of don't get it-it seems that to the younger generation, marriage is "obsolete" according to what I have read (and I somewhat agree), yet 2 out of 2 of my adult children chose to go ahead and tie that knot...I didn't understand the rush to get married, and I still don't.
Hawk you spoke of our grandparents era-I can't go that far back, but I look at my own parents who are older than normal for my age. I can tell they didn't have a happy marriage at all by the time I was coming up. Yet, they chose to stay married. D wasn't an option. I assume it was a unspoken mutual decision to stay married. Knowing my mom, it was because of financial stability/security. Not sure about my dad-guess he just didn't have an interest in woman at that age in life; his later years was complicated by all sorts of medical issues.
We don't speak about it, but its kind of interesting to hear my mom talk about my dad now-nothing but fond memories, how great of a guy he was. There is the occasional negative, but since he past away a long time ago, its mostly positive talk now.
The human mind is such a weird organ.
-T
-EDIT- I probably should not say this, but I can't help but wonder how Sunny's x/h is going to remember her a few years down the road.
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And l was worried sick about sex having to be forever tbh and the guilt killed me. l never stopped loving my w but l needed a change sexually. l'm not sure what the answer is if you wanna stay married.
Early on in my H's MLC I brought up separating for a while and he couldn't see why I would do this. I realized that he needed to work some things out and that was why he found the OW but the reason that I suggested separation was to preserve our relationship. I knew that the OW was about sex and I am not hung up on the sex part - it is the emotional ties that they form that kill me. I wanted him to do what he needed to do and get on with it. I was very supportive in the beginning :o until I realized that he didn't care what kind of damage he was doing to me.
My H has thus far not said that he was unhappy and that is the thing that gets me. He expected me to wait around and let him come and go as he pleased until he got bored with OW. He was very happy cake eating :o I finally had to put a stop to it for both of our sakes. The way that the MLCer goes about this is mind boggling! Fine, he wants to go out and screw everything that moves - go but why try to stay in a relationship with the me. Just end it and do what you want - I wouldn't have lost so much respect for him if he had done that but instead he drags it out for 2 years.
Pixie made a comment about how the MLCer projects how they feel on to us - projection has been one of the harder things for me to recognize but I think that I am getting better ::)
Yes I was his mirror for a long time. The one he projected his own feelings on to. The way he treated me was the way he felt about treating himself. NOW, he only has himself to do these things to.
This was an 'aha' moment for me - thankfully he is projecting onto OW now ::) In a letter that OW wrote to H she says that she can't figure out why she is with someone that loathes her! He really loathes himself - her letter was actually very insightful about H's projections. I could have very easily written what she wrote at one time.
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Well ,l just think for one thing T , if a guy hasn't sown some oats and good, he won't have a hope of lasting the distance - and probably the girl either these days. They seem to regret it just as much , just takes 20yrs to hit them.
And now in our days here , now , the media , the expectations , the sex sex sex , me me me , added to what's out there ;
And then like you said , the mentality too , it's a different world now. l hate to think where marriages are going to end up.
My mum and dad both always talked that way about each other too yet they had a lot of extremely rough years .
In the end , they sorta stayed together , or you could say sorta got back together and lasted 55yrs.
l guess we could assume yeah , some of the older people did have unhappy marriages and resentment but stayed bc that's what they do.
But there's no way we could think all of them and l dunno if you ever listen to them but they all say we're all pretty damn weak these days and l know mine , and ex's , put us to shame.
Yeah we had some stuff for sure , but both ours went through 10x what we did and they've lasted.
And even in mine , yes l effed up really bad , but l did turn , and all ex had to do was have some faith and give that a chance , that's it . And we would have turned the corner and grown old together.
But no one does that now , they all rush of and get divorced.
l said to her , if you were our mums and dads , even her sister , and we would get through this and grow old together just like they have . All ya gotta do is put on the big girl panties and we 'll survive.
She said that's what she was doing but l said bs, your quitting that's what your doing .
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[quote author=Searching4Answers
Early on in my H's MLC I brought up separating for a while and he couldn't see why I would do this. I realized that he needed to work some things out and that was why he found the OW but the reason that I suggested separation was to preserve our relationship. I knew that the OW was about sex and I am not hung up on the sex part - it is the emotional ties that they form that kill me. I wanted him to do what he needed to do and get on with it. I was very supportive in the beginning :o until I realized that he didn't care what kind of damage he was doing to me.
My H has thus far not said that he was unhappy and that is the thing that gets me. He expected me to wait around and let him come and go as he pleased until he got bored with OW. He was very happy cake eating :o I finally had to put a stop to it for both of our sakes. The way that the MLCer goes about this is mind boggling! Fine, he wants to go out and screw everything that moves - go but why try to stay in a relationship with the me. Just end it and do what you want - I wouldn't have lost so much respect for him if he had done that but instead he drags it out for 2 years.
Don't worry S , there is so much l don't understand either . And no one could blame you with your h , you can't be expected to put up with that .
But you know , the fact they don't say it doesn't mean it's no so. But l notice some of the mlcers round here have had no problem what so ever telling their spouses exactly what they thought, of everything.
Just goes to show how far gone some of them are doesn't it to hurt people they suppose to love like that .
l don't think mine so much wanted to hurt me , but she was resentful and really l couldn't blame her .
Strangest thing is , she is mostly so nice these days .
Even today l was broke , have been all wk because my last job is way late . She dropped d off and l said hey you cashed up this wk . She says nope l'm flat broke till thurs and we both laughed.
Later on , she found money somehow , so she text me and asked if l want some into my acc .
She would have gone home worrying that l had no money this wk. She would have organized something later and then the text.
But l can't figure out a lot of things like that with her . She divorced me yet sometimes she still seems to care a lot more deep down than you'd think . Other ways it's like she doesn't .
Who can figure out any of it ::)
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I am getting that too lately, Hawk and it is so confusing. He keeps offering to put money in our account for groceries where he used to call me "Paris", as in Hilton. I keep wondering lately if it is guilt b/c he is back with Miss Twat Shot but then again he tends to complain about money more if he has an OW. He also actually called me this morning to check on our sick dog! I'm like, is it guilt? Is it actual niceness since he talks about maybe getting back together? Or when are they going to cycle away? The mind spins. I guess just best to enjoy good humor while we can and ignore the bad. Stop analyzing it. Ha ha, right?!
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haha yeah right alright ::) we may as well face it and go with the flow . for me it's more trouble fighting of over analyze than the over analyzing -so l may as well just go with that - or something like that , scratch head.
So does he talk about getting back together bipo .
mines never ever talked about it . Although she is so proud there's no way she would , l know that . she has done things though , but then she's back flipped . as you can see l have absolutely no idea either.
And with things like the money or doing things , we've helped each other out right through this but l still just never know. she's always been a very kind person though , l don't know if these days it's just that and for old time sake or more to it.
dunno if it's right or not but l do have one theory . l think my consistency right through this and never having gotten nasty with her about every thing thats happened and still being good to her , has melted her down a bit tbh . she would have expected me to hate her guts and never talk to her ever again, treat her like a piece of dirt.
Because things like the kindness and this caring underneath it all are the old her and l do believe l'm seeing more and more of the old her creeping through the cracks these days.
l could be wrong , it could be guilt or whatever but l just know that deep down she does a lot of things like this and l think they come from her deeper original feelings when she's not fighting it or acting out the tough l don't care thing.
Even the other night l was hanging out over there with d. W got home and made us some tea. l could see her watching out the corner of her eye seeing if l liked it and when l said hmm that was nice, she lit up a bit . But why if she doesn't care , beats me !
Do you think you see anything like that in yours ?
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haha yeah right alright ::) we may as well face it and go with the flow . for me it's more trouble fighting of over analyze than the over analyzing -so l may as well just go with that - or something like that , scratch head.
So does he talk about getting back together bipo .
mines never ever talked about it . Although she is so proud there's no way she would , l know that . she has done things though , but then she's back flipped . as you can see l have absolutely no idea either.
And with things like the money or doing things , we've helped each other out right through this but l still just never know. she's always been a very kind person though , l don't know if these days it's just that and for old time sake or more to it.
dunno if it's right or not but l do have one theory . l think my consistency right through this and never having gotten nasty with her about every thing thats happened and still being good to her , has melted her down a bit tbh . she would have expected me to hate her guts and never talk to her ever again, treat her like a piece of dirt.
Because things like the kindness and this caring underneath it all are the old her and l do believe l'm seeing more and more of the old her creeping through the cracks these days.
l could be wrong , it could be guilt or whatever but l just know that deep down she does a lot of things like this and l think they come from her deeper original feelings when she's not fighting it or acting out the tough l don't care thing.
Even the other night l was hanging out over there with d. W got home and made us some tea. l could see her watching out the corner of her eye seeing if l liked it and when l said hmm that was nice, she lit up a bit . But why if she doesn't care , beats me !
Do you think you see anything like that in yours ?
He does talk about getting back together but there is an element of "if I can get past what you have done to me"! :P :o So obviously still in Replay.
I do see more and more of the old him peeking out at some points. I think they do appreciate our kindness(although some see that as weakness and will try to use it) but they are amazed and distrustful of it. In my sitch I definitely would say that I am not out of the woods yet. I think he still thinks that divorce might make him finally happy and end his feelings for me so I still worry. In RCR's articles she says that they can be afraid of giving us false hope, and also that they may be afraid that they have done too much and can't come back. That might be what your wife is thinking. I wonder if it is a form of cake eating though? I know recently when my H has been over after acting distant I have tried to be in other rooms and busy but he always ends up calling me into the room to be with them! I could drive myself crazy with it all so I just go with my gut and be as kind as possible. I figure most of his issues come from his parents' disapproval and conditional love; hopefully being opposite of that might help?
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Do you mean if he can get past what you did ? , what did you do ?
Sorry , haven't seen all of the story !
lf it was you did something to him then nah ,l wuldn't call that replay just plain old needing to get past it. Some could , some can't.
l reckon if they're hating on us and as mean as , yeah kindness will come across as weak but if mine is good to me then l am good to her ,that's howl play it.
Sometimes if she was a bit arrogant last time l saw her , if l go for d l'll wait in the kitchen and not bother with ex next time. But she has often talked to me out loud from the next room or even come into the kitchen or wherever l am the next time . l have a little chuckle to myself .
Mine would def' think she has done too much , that's why she would never come out and talk R , she'd be too proud and scared l'd just tell her to eff off . She would never set herself up for that.
The way she would do it is in small things and hope l catch on.
She has done things and l have thought deeply about them , but l haven't known for sure , and then there was an om , so ,l've been hurt and l'm proud to so l haven't moved on them .
l do have a few regrets like that but without being sure at the time , no way l was risking another kick in the head.
l sorta suspect her pushing the divorce thing was on account of me not acting on them tbh , but l don't know for sure.
But that is exactly how she would work , she'd try some really subtle thing that couldn't leave her looking like a fool and if she thought l just wasn't into it , she would then turn and act the opposite or even end it.
just how she ticks .
l wouldn't hang out in other rooms though if he came over , even if he is distant. Not unless it's to legit go and do something for a minute , or his arrogant or something .
But just distant , l'd try to stick around . He's probably thinking sh@t through and warming up so you wanna try and be around when he has.
Just thoughts !
l know mine use to buzz off when l had things on my mind and it drove me nuts . Because l'd be somewhere else if l didn't wanna be around her and sometimes l just needed time , or even time to say what t actually was.
But she had this real race of then way about her , always too soon , hence that divorce stuff. l notice she still has it .
Even bd , if only she had talked to me , but that was again her racing off.
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ps , l don't know with mine if l would call it at times cake eating , not as strong as that.
But l do think at times she's maybe even subconsciously, wanted to touch the real us again and the couple thing. Maybe even needed it.
Like being really talky sometimes , almost as if we were still together.
Usually a back flip followed next time l saw her.
Maybe that was the false hope thing or maybe she realized and it was the pride thing , so hard to tell.
She often even maybe avoid though next time l saw her .
Very weird .
Doe s yours stuff like that ?
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ps , l don't know with mine if l would call it at times cake eating , not as strong as that.
But l do think at times she's maybe even subconsciously, wanted to touch the real us again and the couple thing. Maybe even needed it.
Like being really talky sometimes , almost as if we were still together.
Usually a back flip followed next time l saw her.
Maybe that was the false hope thing or maybe she realized and it was the pride thing , so hard to tell.
She often even maybe avoid though next time l saw her .
Very weird .
Doe s yours stuff like that ?
He absolutely does, almost as if he doesn't want to get sucked back in to our family! And by the cake eating thing, I meant that I would feel like he was getting his family fix(and he has said before that he still thinks of us as his family) and then going off to live his single life.
I didn't really do anything that he has to get past. I think he wanted to get rid of his guilt and shame so started blaming me, saying that I made him feel his needs were inconsequential and that he didn't matter. In low moments he can get to me but for the most part I can see this as script. I mean, sure I think there are things we would all do or not do in hindsight but no way did I deserve the stuff he has done, and neither do our kids deserve to be emotionally abandoned. Especially when I have been consistently kind and inviting. He knows I am open to reconciliation but he is still rather lost. Says he misses me and the girls and cries at home alone but he won't look at himself yet. And right now we are going through having our dog die; he called on Saturday to see how she was(when she still had a chance) but we haven't heard a word since. Not even to see how the girls are taking it.
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Getting off topic here but don't a lot of people post about how the MLCer can't handle anything sad, and I think many say they avoid the pets when they are declining? I know he says seeing me cry is the worst thing ever, too-although it seems he goes out of his way to try and make me!
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Getting off topic here but don't a lot of people post about how the MLCer can't handle anything sad, and I think many say they avoid the pets when they are declining? I know he says seeing me cry is the worst thing ever, too-although it seems he goes out of his way to try and make me!
Mine, too. The same thing.
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Mine was pretty damn hard at the start , wouldn't go as far as call it monstering though compared to most round here.
But l reckon her hurt and resentment at times def' caused her to throw a few decent size rocks at me though , so to speak.
And yep she'd just blow of anything upsetting too. Usually in the most amazingly couldn't careless , matter of factly way too .
Sorry about the pet bipo , last thing the kids need . Pretty rough having pets sometimes isn't it.
Sometimes l got the feeling mine didn't wanna get sucked back into it either , maybe even worried l might get a bit too keen next time. But God l don't know , l can only analyze . She's been pretty cagey on all things feeling ever since bd apart from a few emotional spats here and there.
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If our MLCer's look so empty, if they can't maintain an emotional connection to us, to our kids, to our friends, how do they make a connection to an OP? You hit it on the head--they don't. They think they do. On BD day I got "We (H & the OW) are so emotionally close & we (he & I) aren't any more". But the emotional connection isn't to the alienator. It is to the drug, to the "cocaine" of pursuit & intrigue & adoration & infatuation. This all feels so much like "love" to the MLCer & this "love" then justifies, in their minds, what has happened. They don't take responsibility for their choices & actions; they believe that all of this, this "falling in love" & what had to follow just happened to them.
At BD and for the first 8 months after, my H maintained that he loved OW but he loved me too. I asked him how he could love two women. He said he didn't know. I asked him how he could share his thoughts and feelings with someone he hardly knew but he couldn't share them with me. His complete emotional cut off from me was the thing I found most painful, so naturally I assumed he was now sharing that part of himself with OW.
His response was 'what talk about emotions you mean - we don't'. How you can decide you love each other if you never 'talk about emotions' as my H put it, I don't know. So, I agree that the emotional connection isn't to the alienator. It's all about the high they're getting. It's all about feeling something instead of dead inside, even if it's just for a while. The OW could be anyone and they would feel the same high.
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I asked him how he could love two women. He said he didn't know.
I had a similar conversation with my H - I asked him how he could love two women too. His response was "you have two cats and you love them both, how is this any different" :o I couldn't believe that he was comparing the love for a pet to the love of another person!
The topic came up another time (many times actually) and he told me that he loved differently than me ???
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The topic came up another time (many times actually) and he told me that he loved differently than me ???
At least he could differentiate that the love was different. Now all he has to do is realize that the one wasn't love at all. We live in hope ;).
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Does anyone wonder if part of the attraction of the OP is that the MLCer doesn't HAVE to talk about emotions? That when the time comes in some of the OP relationships that emotion talk comes up is when those relationships fall apart?
If you figure that the OP is as broken as the MLCer, the OP may only want a superficial relationship that feels good or is financially beneficial (or whatever the motivation) at first. But when the light of reality starts to hit and now they have to talk about "the relationship", it either goes to heck in a hand basket or they actually work it out (the way they should have worked it out with their original spouse in the first place).
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I have many times wonderred about why my husband was so mean and cruel during the 5 months of monster before i threw him out. He said some incredibly painfull things to me that still haunt me . I came to believe he was soo in love with the OW and wanted to be with her that I was the reason he could not do all that he wanted to do. I was the big "problem" standing between him and his true "love bunny soul mate" . However, after 16 months of repeated conversations he says: His mind convinced him (100% convinced ) that I no longer loved him, that he could not make me happy and I was done with him. (none of that was true) . He felt total rejection and then "monstor " reacted to that perceived abandonement . OH so complex and confusing ! Mine says he had zero emotional connetion to the OW. None.
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However, after 16 months of repeated conversations he says: His mind convinced him (100% convinced ) that I no longer loved him, that he could not make me happy and I was done with him. (none of that was true) .
I can relate to this too Barbiedoll. When I asked mine why he would move in with someone he hardly knew he said he wasn't wanted or loved at home. I think he truly believed this. He felt unloveable because he didn't love himself. I also believe that he felt he couldn't make me happy. He had done so many bad things while spiraling into BD. Getting us into debt, stealing jewelry of mine (probably to sell to help his debt - which he still won't admit to btw, but no-one else went into my jewelry box ::)), steeling from our D9 at the time's bank account, wrecking 2 cars from drunk driving. The affair for him was the last straw to total self-hatred. I remember telling him that I loved him and missed him. His response - I don't know why.
The OW was the blank slate to start again with - someone who didn't know all his flaws. Someone he hadn't let down and hurt so completely. Someone he wanted to love him and he wanted to love back to make all the bad go away. But real life just doesn't work that way. I think he still can't completely understand why I still care about him after so much destruction, and I think 46 months post BD the cracks are starting to show in his relationship with OW.
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Mine had some reason to bc l l did lose the plot myself before bd but she said much the same.
Maybe that's why she wouldn't listen to how it really was which wasn't like she thought at all bc here are yours saying the same type of thing.
she thought l was running away with a friend and was out of love with her .
Said she'd been thinking that for 12mths.
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Mine said the same , he was also 100% convinced that I did not love him . Along with that he was convinced that his family no longer cared for him . Myself and his family are also the ones he has had anger at for the rejection that he felt . I have spoken to him several times about this and he remains constant that that was totally what he believed at the time .
I also remember the look of horror on his face when he realised that his believes where not the case . I can still see it so clearly today it was a look of absolute horror at what he had done based on his distorted thoughts .
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Now l wonder if mine was emotional with om .
She cert didn't seem it but l wouldn't know for sure .
l wonder if om or ow's need emotion ! Although l believe mines om thought they were in love , maybe w did to . But if they are still together it certainly toned down a few dozen notches bc l can't tell when she'd even see him apart from maybe Saturdays .
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However, after 16 months of repeated conversations he says: His mind convinced him (100% convinced ) that I no longer loved him, that he could not make me happy and I was done with him. (none of that was true) . He felt total rejection and then "monstor " reacted to that perceived abandonement . OH so complex and confusing ! Mine says he had zero emotional connetion to the OW. None.
This resonates with me. My H appears to be a low energy MLCer, and I also appear to have done some very right things (quite by accident). My H had told me that nothing he does makes me happy. (I had no idea I was unhappy, but he sure made it know HE was unhappy) That he realized a few years ago I didn't have his back (hardly-he is obviously the one who didn't have MY back). Blah, blah, blah it's all my fault because I must not like him if he can't make me happy, blah, blah. I told him I didn't understand, then gave him a list of things he does that makes me happy, and they were all things that showed I admired and respected him. I did cry while doing so, but since it wasn't about me being unhappy, I don't think it counted. Every time he does anything remotely nice, I throw him a verbal cookie.
But here's where it gets weird. We have been going along with everything running smoothly. He's been nice, I've been nice, he eats my food and sometimes cooks for me. But I fell into calling him "Sweetie" a few days ago and this morning, he is distancing. I ignored it as if there is no difference, but I will be sure not to call him "Sweetie" today and back off. So when I think about most of you with high energy MLCers, it's almost like they must need to monster to MAKE you not like them.
Why would someone need to create what they fear? That their spouse no longer loves them? Because that is what it looks like. They feel unworthy?
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I think they do feel unworthy. It is also a handy excuse for doing what they do to us. My H insists that he didn't matter, that I hated him before BD, even though I was practically begging him to spend time with me. My reality and his seemed to be completely different.
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WOW! I am so glad I wrote about my husband swearing that "I did not love him" and that was the "trigger " ( one of the) for his MLC behavior . Again, in 16 months of entensive therapy and endless discussions ( including last night ) .. he will NOT and has NOT changed from this perception. Very true ... his perception of what happened and mine are 100% different . I was furious ( initially ) every single time he said it , because to me it was total BU&&SH&T!. Enraged for months because to me .. a ridiculous lie and excuse to screw the OW . It is not at all what happened .. we all know the begging , crying , I love you blah blah puek blah , that we all did ? I did it too . I even wrote a letter to him . There is NO WAY he could have "unclear" that I did love him and I was absolutely committed to the marriage . ( starting to frigggggging get angry again, just typing this ) BUT he insists ( as f-ing crazy as that is.. he felt (his words ) " you were done with me, you saw me as broken, i could not do ANYTHING right ( even at work) , you did not love me anymore , you "settled" for me , you did not like my body (???) , you tolerated me for years, i could not make you HAPPY ( a million times ), You could not love me liked i needed because you really did NOT love me , " and on and on . This is what he thought no matter what i said , begged , wrote etc... so there is the proof that they hear NOTHING you say . My husband said that no matter what I said " it was turned into an angry negative instantly in his brain". He felt ZERO ZERO emotional connection to me or his kids , his family , his job, committments .. nothing . He was empty . He only felt anger and negative input etc . He says , he felt ZERO emotional connection to the OW .. he was not capable . The tramp that she is made him feel " she was so happy to see him , he was perfect , she gushed appreciation over a 7 dollar bottle of wine , asked no questions and just smiled and wanted to be with him . He could "make someone happy ". She was appreciative , did not judge him, told him he was a "rock solid family man " ( as she boinked my married man ... rock solid ???) WTH? . She was as mental and delusional as he was . Seems reality started to creep in on my "rock solid man "... and here we are 16 months later still fighting to survive and put broken hearts back together . Ih, just want to add one more crazy statement ( to me ) . In counselling ( recently ) he has figured some things out with his own therapist . I will say , my husband is proufoundly shocked at what he did . He goes to his therapist because he needs to know WHY this happened and that it will never happen again . He is deeply committed to learning about himself and rebuilding this marriage ... of that I am 100% positive . So, anyway , he now has "dug" a little deeper with his therapist . He believes (yuk.. this is hard ) that sex was just another way to "make her happy ". Sex meant nothing at all to him, barely remembers and she absolutely was sexually agressive and clearly "expected sex", so he had sex . I walked out of therapy ... I still have huge issues with many many things . This is re-building after the horror of MLC men .
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Mine also said I didn't love him, that nothing he did made me happy. So untrue. Every night when he came home from work, just that mad me happy. He also told me before he left he only thinks negative thoughts of me and the kids.
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Hi Barbidoll,
". Sex meant nothing at all to him, barely remembers and she absolutely was sexually agressive and clearly "expected sex", so he had sex . I walked out of therapy ... I still have huge issues with many many things . This is re-building after the horror of MLC men .
This is why there is no way for a reconciliation with me and my xW, everything that she had told me was disgusting about sex I later found out she had done with different OM, she even captured it on tape for me to later find.
I don't have issues but this was apparently her working through hers.
Lanzo
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Mine also said I didn't love him, that nothing he did made me happy. So untrue. Every night when he came home from work, just that mad me happy. He also told me before he left he only thinks negative thoughts of me and the kids.
That made me think of how pretty much every day I would meet H at the door, or sometimes at his van when he drove up. Yet I was tired of him and didn't pay attention to him.
It is interesting that you all are mentioning the kids. H has never really said anything directly but I kept feeling that he resented them as well as me sometimes and I was thinking, "WTH? These are your children!".
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Yep..accused me of putting him on the "back burner"
I yelled:
"Are you talking about the kids?!" He shut right up.
Raising decent human beings is hard work.
The ex told me all I ever meant to him was sex...and I believe that.
When he and I were married his dinner was on the table at 5 every night and I took care of everything else.
He thought he was a paycheck. He did and bought whatever he wanted and he still wasn't happy..
What do you have to do in order to have someone find any value in something other than money?
It's not our job to make someone else happy.
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Mine also said she can't make me happy.
She said no matter what she does but then , she'd been as slack as anything with us for 4yrs , it was as if most of the time us was the last thing on her mind . That's the main reason l got distant in the first place.
And when l explained all that and that she has always just automatically made me happy just being herself normally , she wouldn't hear any of it . lt was so hair taring out frustrating , knowing she was about to destroy our marriage and my daughters family rather than think about what l tried to say .
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Ok, I was going to add my 2 cents. But after reading all these posts. Thers no reason to.
Mine said exactly the SAME DAMN THING! How is this possible, that all theses MLCers are having the exact same psychosis, brain disorder, insanity, stupid, crazy ass crisis???
It just gets weirder and weirder...... I wantbo stand, I want to think this is going to get better. And I'm almost 2 years in.! The only thing a little different is he's connecting a little with his kids. Very little, but at least something.
I thought that was supposed to be progress......then I find out he's about to vacation with the OW........... Nice >:(. So sick of it!! :-\
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I don't know Kat0465 but your post cracked me up!!
I have no idea how they come up with the same damn phrases..
If he's with and OW drop the rope, let go, get mad enough to have had ENOUGH and start NC immediately.
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In it,
The rope has been dropped a while now.. Although he thinks he does me a solid every( or almost every ) morning. With a God bless you,have a good day" text. Ughh.
No phone calls, nothing. Unless its about finances or kids.but I dont bother to tell him squat about kids anymore. They are grown. If he wants to know, he can ask. But dosent!
Daughter thinks he's not seeing the OW. Boy if she only knew, he's about to fly the coop for a week with that trash!
I have to bite my tongue about in half not to tell her.. We try not to talk much about her dad. It's o upsetting to both of us.
Crazy still buys me Christmas, and birthday presents. Don't know what that's about, maybe it makes the guilt less. Who the hell knows anymore!!
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l'm pretty sure they all read the same book before bd.
Mine was reading heaps of books , why didn't l know , see it, say something .
They were all life changing stuff , that's alarm bells right there.
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Kat I'm just past my first year working into my second. They are just crazy. Mine bought me a gift for christmas, I threw it away. He was also generous enough to get our daughter d15 at the time 1 x-mas gift. How generous of him.
And yep, I think they all read the same book.
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in it, mine is nowhere near what your ex is but he did speak of feeling he "just worked here" and using that as an excuse for all this. My girls still seem to love their dad and want his attention but after a year of sometimes getting responses to their texts and sometimes not, getting maybe a few hours a week of his time-they rarely speak of him unless they need him to pay for something or they want to go out to eat. He sorta has become a paycheck, I guess. But of course, he would spend more time with them if he didn't have to work so hard to keep up two households. B/c I disrespected him.
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Going to work and supporting a family is what grown ups do! I didn't know you were supposed to pat someone on the head everyday for doing it..or act like a $l()t so they get paid back. I didn't realize I was supposed to stroke his firetrucking ego every single second besides running a household and raising kids.
Im so happy I'm not maintaining a man you have no idea.
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Amen sist'a Init! you read my mind... as I have often said the same .. word for word! ( my marriage was "child centered " ... really ? REALLY ? There are 5 OF THEM ! They are not frigggging hamster ! ... omg ! .. I will stop here !
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No let it out barbie I mean really WTF??
I breast fed two kids for 18 months BESIDES doing every firetrucking thing else and all they think about it when they are going to get thier d!ck dipped next..seriously??
Uhmmm men REALLY NEED some kind of idea what being pregnant delivering a human being then taking care of it every single second so something good comes from it.
I have NO IDEA how you raised 5!!! :o :o :o :o I'm in awe of you Barbie!!
Then these firetrucking @$$holes because of their issues do this??? ARE YOU firetruckING SERIOUS!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Kick all their asses to the curb!!! They have NO IDEA how to treat someone who has been there for them. THEY ARE THE ONES WITH THE PROBLEM. It's up to us to NOT make it ours.
GROW THE firetruck UP!!!!
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I wish I could print out your post init and put it up on my mirror and use it as inspiration. Powerful words!!
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And once again, someone said it for me.
In it!! Can I get an AMEN!! We all should print that out!! My husband is like Ceecee bloom, in the movie beaches! And I told him so.
Always needed attention, attention, attention!!! So much beyond the norm, he wore people out!! Especially me and his kids! Gez, I sure don't miss that!
Suddenly, there's a lot of things I ain't missin ::)
Damn narcissists! >:(
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Wow
This sounds like "De-Ja-Vu" Mine said that she does not love me any more because she thought that I did not love her any more...FFS! Where did that come from? I have always showed love and affection. Before knowing about MLC,I went into the the "Languages of love" book and I though we were onto something but it turned out to be not applicable as MLC has its own rules. I also fell into that trap of using old affectionate nicknames. Stern cold shoulder is what I got. Now I am keeping it pure business..!
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Well try writing down what you don't miss. That might help you put things into perspective.
At first it felt more like emptiness but it isn't. Why do things for or worry about people who simply cannot appreciate it?
If they cannot appreciate your presence give them the gift of your absence.
And IMHO the "5 Love Languages" would work a lot better if two people identified what "does it" for them!
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Yeah it's pretty damn stressful being married for sure. Lot of emotional work always going on underneath isn't there , even in the really relaxed sort of thing we had . Your still subconsciously always seem to be trying to pat at the right times and a million other things , worrying you missed something that's gonna hit the fan.
One thing about not being married now , l got so much more emotional head space and free feel . Sometimes l look at other couples end see all the usual stuff shining through and think hmm , this ain't so bad. 8)
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I only read a couple of these, and to be honest, I respect all your pain, but the stories are laugh-out-loud funny when you are past the stage of wading in your own drool... Init, you made me laugh, so I thought for the sake of posterity, I would add mine...
My EX's OW was a teacher when she had her affair with her first husband who was her married principal... They married and had two kids. Ten year later, I am not sure what happened in their marriage, but I know she cheated--a lot... Our son was diagnosed with cancer and she was trolling, and gave my husband all the support he needed and I didn't... Yup, he said that, idiot, um, I was a bit preoccupied with saving our son, but apparently my priorities were misplaced... She was everything I never could be (not sure what that was exactly, but the fact that she still golfed and loved watching SportsCenter was a big part of it, apparently, honesty, faithfulness and dedication to his kids were not important factors...), and she NEEDED him, and I didn't. So, he left and married her before I even knew we were divorced... The fact that he is now her boss means she has moved up the food chain, and I expect that in five years, before her pretty runs out, she will find another knight to help her along as my ex becomes eligible for social security and she still wants to have fun (that 15-year age difference will start to magnify)...
In the meantime, hawk, new relationships, post-MLC can be amazing. If you decide to try, there is a LOT of joy when you find someone who TRULY loves you, BECAUSE of what you have been through... Love and light all, ll
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I only read a couple of these, and to be honest, I respect all your pain, but the stories are laugh-out-loud funny when you are past the stage of wading in your own drool... Init, you made me laugh, so I thought for the sake of posterity, I would add mine...
My EX's OW was a teacher when she had her affair with her first husband who was her married principal... They married and had two kids. Ten year later, I am not sure what happened in their marriage, but I know she cheated--a lot... Our son was diagnosed with cancer and she was trolling, and gave my husband all the support he needed and I didn't... Yup, he said that, idiot, um, I was a bit preoccupied with saving our son, but apparently my priorities were misplaced... She was everything I never could be (not sure what that was exactly, but the fact that she still golfed and loved watching SportsCenter was a big part of it, apparently, honesty, faithfulness and dedication to his kids were not important factors...), and she NEEDED him, and I didn't. So, he left and married her before I even knew we were divorced... The fact that he is now her boss means she has moved up the food chain, and I expect that in five years, before her pretty runs out, she will find another knight to help her along as my ex becomes eligible for social security and she still wants to have fun (that 15-year age difference will start magnify)...
In the meantime, hawk, new relationships, post-MLC can be amazing. If you decide to try, there is a LOT of joy when you find someone who TRULY loves you, BECAUSE of what you have been through... Love and light all, ll
When I hear stories like this, I always wonder how the MLCer can look at himself in the mirror. Does he just not keep any mirrors around? Mind blowing.....
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I have no f*cking idea how they look at themselves in a mirror..I'd be so disgusted and ashamed of myself I don't think I could. They are a poor excuse for a human being I can tell you that much.
I really do think ALL they are banking on is those of you who still feel sorry for them...they feel sorry enough for themselves. Why JOIN THEM?? You can't fix them.
Ask yourself if the history of the relationship is really worth the time it will take for them to GROW UP.
Once you get a perspective it is just about the most ridiculous thing you could ever imagine. You can not make this $hit up!
Threatens my life divorces me
Moves exow into the family home two weeks after the divorce was final which took 4 months.
BEFORE he moves her in she sells her house in 9 days. He realizes he can't move her in that fast. Bought an RV and the stupid b*tch lived in that for a summer with two cats and a dog. Tells her he'll marry her then changes his mind..tells her over the phone he won't.
He moves her in ANYWAY.She's in the house about 2 months. The kids refuse to see him. He finds a house for her. In the meantime she rips off an elderly woman who's house she was cleaning.(She tells him the old woman put a bag full of jewelry in the garbage ::))
He finds out she's talking to other guys. She breaks up with him once she's in her own house.
He sets her up with the stolen jewelry and has her busted. Testifies againest her and she gets convicted .
That's just part ONE. ALL of that happened in 6 months time.
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New discussion thread please if you want this to continue.
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Yes Hawk, the books were a red flag. Soon after I realized what might be going on with my H and his newly found teenage behavior, I found a receipt for a book about How To Deal With Guilt...and the workbook to go with it. A workbook on guilt? You've got to be kidding me!! I never saw that book in our house. I guess he took it to work to hide it as it was a large book.
In It, I agree with everything that you said in post #153!!!! I also heard the typical: You never Respected ME!! What? as well as everything else that you mentioned...and he treated our son terribly also. I found this site and figured out what was going on in his Narcissistic head!! OW (ex high school GF) had been single for 30 years and had no children; he now has all of her attention...all of her manipulating attention. But, she cannot cook so now he has to do that also (he never did before) when he comes home at 7 or 8 at night. LOL, funny how things turn out sometimes isn't it?
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah it is pretty funny how things turn out..
And l give me something TOO respect and I might.
I must say I am a little impressed the ex hasn't made any kind of contact ..guess he isn't ready to go to jail yet. ::)