Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: MsT on March 28, 2015, 02:31:10 PM
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Hi, I am starting this topic because my 13 year old daughter came to me the other day and told me she'd composed a 5 msg long text to her dad, telling him how she feels. She hadn't sent it yet, because it was bedtime when she finished and I was calling for her phone (I take her phone and tablet at night.) She wanted to know if I thought she should send it.
I have no idea, really. I think she would feel better if she told him how she felt in a way. But am also worried that she has a secret hope that it will get him home, and that he will not react the way she expects and she will feel crushed. This happened once shortly after he stopped sleeping here, she asked him if he was coming home and thought he would say yes, but instead he said he didn't know and she got very upset.
She is supposed to address the issue with her counselor next week, but she asked me about it again today, and I told her the same thing I told her the other day: that it was going to have to be her decision, but that she needs to think about it good and hard first to make sure she really wants to.
Does anyone have any thoughts on or experience with this? Thanks in advance.
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Good question MsT. I don't have any answer. Hopefully someone else will. I would lean toward letting her give him the message if that is what will make her feel better. But unfortunately you can't control how the crazy eyes will respond. Maybe if you prepare her for what might happen and that she might not get a favorable response or it might take time for her letter to affect him being that he's going through mlc. I often wish that my children would tell H how they really feel, because he doesn't believe it when it comes from me. But my daughter did tell him once and it didn't make any difference at the time. She actually told him, you chose her over me, and you know what he said. "I try to stay away from her and I can't". So her letter may not make any difference to him either.
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With my exH, the kids were very young, 5 & 2, so they did not really have to go through so much. I was a stay at home mom so I was the center of their world at the time. I started my own business so I could continue to stay home with them and so they pretty much grew up not knowing what life with a dad is like. So they have never asked if he would come back. They don't ask to call him or go stay with him either. I don't think they know anymore to miss him. It's his loss. I've made up for it the best I can and they have my dad & brothers as good male role models.
He's still in MLC 10yrs later, but he seems to be aware that he has been in MLC & is possibly on the way out of the tunnel. I asked him how he figured it out and he said D12 asked him why he kept dying his hair red. He said he looked in the mirror that day and decided he did look ridiculous and has not dyed it ever since. It was after that when he decided to quit pretending he was a bar manager who worked 70hr weeks and he went back to banking. So, I suppose a well timed innocent question can change things up. I would say he was at about year 8 when she asked him that.
With my current MLCer, his S19 would like to say something, but is too scared to say anything so he just stays out of his way.
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I don't think that it will make a difference. He just can't see her right now. They're all so self-absorbed and blind to anything other than their own immediate needs. The real question is, what does she really want to accomplish with the letter? Find that out, and then do what you feel is best. If her motivation is to just get it out, that's one thing. If it's to see if he cares, that's another. Find out, and talk to her about it. That way, she can make the right decision for her.
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If they are in active replay, and are still bat$hit crazy it will likely do no good. HOWEVER that does not mean out children who are old enough should not express their feelings. Teenagers that want to tell the MLCer how they feel should (IMHO). However that being said we have to be very firm with them that their may be backlash, and to not expect a change in the behavior. They should EXPECT they MLC parent to be the "victim" and if they get any remorse.......then that will be an unexpected bonus.
Just my .02 cents as the parent of a older teen who has been devastated by this.
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Thanks for replies. I did ask her what her motivation was and she said she just wants him to know she thinks this sucks, but I don't think that's the whole story.
I really don't want to be facilitating his relationships with the kids in any way, I have enough to do taking care of their everything else all the time.
I also tried to make it clear to her that I will talk it through with her, but I won't decide for her because I can't stay objective in this situation at this time and that I really think she should wait and talk it through with her counselor.
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T -
I dont have kids but I think it would be a bad idea for her to send the text to him prior to her discussing it with the counselor.
I look at how I can't keep my own expectations down - and the heartache it causes when I don't get the responses I want.
If an adult can't do it - think of your daughter - she will be crushed.
Just my two cents
Air
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Realising how much was swept under the carpet in my MLCer's FOO, I would encourage your daughter to let her Dad know how she feels.
Sometimes we have to speak, no matter what the response is. We do it for our own wellbeing and sanity.
As he his a man in crisis, it will barely hit the walls of his conscience, even if he says all of the right things in the moment. He may also get very defensive. Your daughter needs to be prepared for all eventualities. Our children can't control these MLCers any more than we can, and they need to understand that too for their own sanity.
Our boys were 12, 14 and 15 at BD, and their Dad has been a clinger, which has made things very tough. They have all told him how they felt (usually via email or text) a few times each. (mainly because he was trying to shove the OW into their lives constantly).
Yes, at first they naturally thought it would bring him home.
Their Dad promised them the earth - that the OW was on the way out, that she was moving to another country, and yes, they did break up for a few days until the OW fabricated a 'break in' at her house and had to move in with my MLCer so he could 'save' her.
The boys discussed their frustration at talking to the breeze with their counsellor, and with me.
Five years down the track, they have given up on him.
But I firmly believe that they did the right thing in speaking up.
They came to the conclusion that like an addict, unless their Dad was willing to make changes and get help, he was going to continue in the new life that he has chosen.
It breaks my heart, but I still believe it would have been worse if they were wondering if speaking up might have changed things, and they had always been too scared to do so.
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My D13 throws a truth dart my xp's way every now and then. She does seem to be the only one, at this stage, that gets through to him. But it doesn't change his behaviour just makes him sit back and think for a bit. But his needs are always stronger than the kids.
Xp has been on a big drinking binge this past couple of weeks and D13 has really taken the brunt of this anger. He Monsters at her when I reduce contact.
If your D has been asking repeatedly to send the txts I would let her - just make sure that she is prepared for any response (including no response) from him.
It is such a mind field trying to work out the best way to deal with all this craziness.
Kia Kaha - Stay Strong
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My children's truth darts did hit their marks. It didn't change anything. He still continued on his path. How do I know they hit - well I would bear the brunt of it. His shame, guilt would come back at me. He would blame me.
It was the silence though I think that was hitting him more. My kids did not ask him for Christmas, they did not wish him Happy Birthday. He was no longer in contact with me so I am not sure who he had to blame. Maybe still me. I do know that he commented to the one child shortly after his birthday about how hurt he has been by their actions or lack of.
I was told by our counsellor to allow my children to own their relationship with their Father. (and for him to do the same) as I kept trying to keep them linked together in some shape or form. Be there for your child if they need you but to let them figure it out. I think part of letting them figure it out is her telling him how she feels.
You did good by respecting her and reading it and saying for her to think it through first. this way she is still in control of her emotions, her feelings and you are there with her if she needs you.
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It did come up again today and she has for now made the decision that she would like to tell him. She also told me that she thinks he knows she's kind of mad, because of some text exchange they had the other day. I try very hard not to ask her for details about these things.
I also tried to explain about having no expectations, and also tried to explain that she needs to be prepared that he might respond with anger or, more likely, not respond at all and that if either of those things happens she needs to not take it personally.
She'll be seeing her counselor either tomorrow or Wednesday and will go over it there.
I really wish this wasn't an issue in her life right now, being 13 sucks enough.
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Yes it sucks to be 13. I wouldn't want to do it again. My S is 16and is having problems with a particular girl and I had to breakdown an call idiot H to com talk to him because I just couldn't comfort him. H did a good job, I stayed in the room because I didn't completely trust him to say what was right. But he did and he got tears in his eyes for our sons pain. The real him I guess kind of broke through for a moment. It makes me mad because he should be here every day for them. I shouldn't have to call him if I can't handle something. Poor kids, they didn't deserve this BS. All we can do is make sure we are always there for them even though their dads weren't.
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My D13 and S10 will begin seeing therapists next week. S has been having "suicidal thoughts". Do you tell the therapist about the MLC? The kids started having problems after BD2 in particular.
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I'm no therapist but I'm a nurse and I know in order to help someone you need the whole picture. I would think it would be very important for the therapist to know because of the inconsistent and unpredictable behavior of an MLCer. Maybe you could give the therapist a heads up privately on the phone prior to your visit and then the visit can be all about your S and not the crazy dude causing all the havoc. Is he coming with by the way, your H? Does he know, care? He should be going too. Jerks! Sorry hate when kids get hurt!
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My S11 and I are headed to almost 3 year mark of this rollercoaster ride. So he was 8 when his dad bd and rode off into the sunset with the OW. I've had my son in counseling for about 1 1/2 years now due to low self esteem and grades going down. C knows he's MLC. She has talked with S about his feelings for H and such. She told me that he should be able to tell H how he feels, regardless. So I've told him that if he wants to write a letter, text, or talk on phone I'd be there to support him. S took opportunity in person and told H that he didn't think he was a good dad, husband or friend. That people that love you don't just up and leave you. Well H didn't like it one bit, but he took it like a champ. Then went riding off into the sunset with OW again. This reoccurred several times.
Now S doesn't even talk to H. Refers to him by his name. If H shows up to anything he'll ask me What's H's given name doing here? Trying to weasel back in?
I believe that my son has been disappointed too many times that he, like me, doesn't give it much thought anymore. He thinks his dad is a lying, cheating, sneaky snake. And you know what? That's his perception and feeling and he's entitled to it.
Will it make a difference if D gives the letter or text? Never know. But just like one said, depending on what she looks to gain from it. We all hope they do have some remorse and empathy, at least for their children, but some of the saddest stories I've read about on here involve a vanisher who never looks back, so who knows?
I think she should talk with C about it and just get a little more ammunition to protect herself from what he may or may not say.
Good Luck T. Have a good Evening.
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My D13 and S10 will begin seeing therapists next week. S has been having "suicidal thoughts". Do you tell the therapist about the MLC? The kids started having problems after BD2 in particular.
I did, I mentioned it on the phone when I set up the intake and then we discussed it more at length during the intake. The lady is a youth counselor and I don't think she quite understands, but she def. understood that he has had a psychological break and that it's very stressful for everyone.
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D13 met with a therapist on Monday; S10 met with the same therapist on Wednesday. At the beginning of each session, the therapist asked for my input/observations (with each child in the room). I openly and concisely explained at the beginning of D's session that H had an affair, he's in MLC, we're "working on things". D told me after the session that she told the therapist that she doesn't trust H. She doesn't believe that when he leaves to "go on a bike ride/work out" that he isn't with OW. The therapist told D that she needs to tell her dad that. I told D that I struggle with that trust, too. I reminded her that broken trust has to be re-earned and that her dad hasn't really put much effort into that. Since I don't know how much the therapist knows about MLC, I did caution D that when she told him, she couldn't have any expectations. Truth is, we don't have any idea how he'll react. I did tell her that a potentially negative reaction doesn't mean her feelings aren't valid or that they shouldn't be expressed.
I don't know if this helps anyone, but I wanted to share our experience.
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Hi, Lazo, my daughter struggled with her decision to tell her Dad how she's feels about all this for a few weeks. Her counselor also thought it was important. She finally decided she was ready and understood that she may not like the way he reacted. So she did and his response was "blame me if you want, but this is all you mom's fault."
She was worried that she might make things worse, and I told her that it was important that she learn how to communicate her feelings so she doesn't grow up and go nuts and abandon her family or something.
The fact of the matter is, his response made her a little mad, but over all, she feels a lot better after telling him how she feels.
Thanks for sharing your experience, this is the worst thing for me about all this, that children are collateral damage.
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The one thing I was thinking while reading about your Hs b response to your daughter's message is that he may think and say that now, but that message will be available for him to re read and its stuck in His head and it may eventually get through, even if it takes a while.
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MsT, it's good to hear that D13 feels better after telling her dad how she feels and that she was able to handle his reaction. Another step on the road to recovery.
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The one thing I was thinking while reading about your Hs b response to your daughter's message is that he may think and say that now, but that message will be available for him to re read and its stuck in His head and it may eventually get through, even if it takes a while.
True dat.
His contact with her this whole time has been weird, TBH. It does not track with their R prior to this crisis. I think it is him trying to soothe his own guilt, saying "look, I am still a great Dad, see? I pay for everything and D13 and I talk all the time." That is what bothered D13. She didn't want him to think that she and her sisters are all fine, because they are not.
So if that's how it is, she not only feels better, but she took away the peace of mind he was trying to get from her even though he doesn't deserve it.
Truth be told, I think she turned a corner after. She's been standing up straighter and more optimistic and getting some fun and smiles back in her the last few days.
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My S is 12. It has been 17 months since BD, he has told his dad he misses him and the standard response has always been "I know buddy, but it has to be this way." S asked why, response "because it has to." What is different about this time, is S came home told me and said, he had a really nice life, all he gives me are non-answers. So he is starting to at least tell his dad how he feels, he is starting to recognize his dad can't give an answer, for whatever reason. He is starting to accept the relationship for what it is now, superficial at best.
I asked him what did he expect, did he want his Dad to say I miss you too buddy let's spend more time together? He said no, he wanted his Dad to come home. It was hard telling him that isn't going to happen. It makes me mad that I am put in the position to answer when he ask why. I told him Dad started another life and family with someone else, and he is no longer part of mine. I think TMT put it best, my heart still loves H, my brain says run like your a$$ is on fire!
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I'm willing to bear H's "blame" as long as my D feels better. I've told her it's up to her and in her own time. I'll let you know how it plays out.
I agree that it's essential that both the kids learn how to deal so they don't end up like H. S is currently repressing a lot, I think.
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I'm not sure what is going on with my H lately. He is actually making an honest attempt to spend more time with S. today he asked D if she wanted to go to Florida with him next month when he goes on a work trip. She said she couldn't go though because its a week before school ends and she will have finals. I just don't know what to make of it. He is going to the place that was our family favorite vacation spot. It made me sad that he asked her, because we should be going as a family. I didn't tell her that it made me sad.
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I know I posted this on my thread, but I thought I'd mention it here, too.
D13 had sent her dad a message telling him how she feels about all this and got a reply that 'it's all your mom's fault.' She was mad about that (she's pretty bright, she knows that is crap) and at first she thought about just not responding. After a few days, though, she decided she would, so she sent him a text that said "bullsht," and under normal circumstances she uses polite language at home and around grown-ups (I know her and her friends get a little foul mouthed when they're together, but it is peer appropriate so I let it slide) but in this case I didn't say anything about her choice of language when she told me. I was actually kind of proud, because she nailed it as far as replies go.
His interaction with her this whole time has been off. Nicey-nicey, not mad she lost her phone, all kinds of extra "I love yous" "your a good kid," and it was making her feel worse than I realized I think. I guess I figured it would make her happy since it was nice, but it more made her uncomfortable because it was off.
So now he's not talking to her, she's told him plainly how she feels, and she seems tons better. We've all had a great few days with the nice weather and family GAL, which she usually mopes through because of her age.
My overanalysis of this: his nicey-nicey texting with her was a way to ease his conscious, to tell himself we were all fine and everything would be fine. Now he has to say bye-bye to his little fantasy that everything will be fine.
And my daughter is learning to stand up for herself and tell people how she feels, and it made her feel good to do it.
I don't know if this will help with anyone else's kids, but it's something to think about if the situation comes up.
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MsT,
this weekend my S12, text his Dad that he hated him for abandoning him, of course H text back I love you, sometimes our lives don't turn out the way we expect but we must do our best, S called him out on that too, saying you always give me a none answer, from there it went to "once things are settled, then all will be made clear", S told him "you should be ashamed of yourself, we both know what you did and it was wrong." That ended the texting, next day, H text the kids seeing who wanted to go for a hike, like nothing happened, S said they did not talk, and he is afraid to confront his father in person. Baby steps, but I am glad your daughter is starting to stand up for herself. There comes a time where they have to call bull$h!te, because well, it IS bull$h!te.
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My D13 is always riding her dads a$$ about what he did and continues to do to them.
From what I have observed, the interaction between D and H is very similar to how D and her friends interact. I think our teenagers, on some level, "get" how to deal with the MLCers because they emotionally are at the same stage. They fight like teenagers do - yell, scream, swear etc. all respect seems to go out the window when they are having an argument.
My D is so embarrassed about how her dad looks (in his mission to reclaim his youth he has morphed into an Italian Porn Star) oh the same of it for D.
At times it is like having two teenagers in the family. Time to baton down the doors and ride this storm out.
Kia Kaha - Stay Strong
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My Husband avoids all the hard conversations too. My one son has asked the hard questions and he either doesn't answer, deflects or just throws it on me with no real explanation. The first year the counsellor worked with him to have a talk with the children. The counsellor told me to tell the children he was going to so they were not shocked by it. My kids said they would believe it when they saw it. It never happened. We wasted I don't know how much money on him working with the counsellor on how to approach it, what he needed to address and all that.
I swear my teenage sons are better at dealing with issues at hand and not running or avoiding or acting like it didn't happen.
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I'm glad I am not the only one with an MCLer who act as if nothing happened. The kids actually make jokes about when H tells them about the baby. My D says well when he is 13 he can join fb, and I will find him and friend him there. Wonder how Dad is going to explain that?
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Haha, bs13, I like your D's response :D
Picton, I feel the same. First time with a teenager and lucky me! I get two for one.
D13 hasn't heard from her Dad since she told him how she feels about all this, and she still seems better. More spring in her step, hasn't come to my room asking for melatonin late at night, less of the anxious leg tapping thing.
I don't know what the crap they're thinking- that they'll just walk out of their kid's lives hollering "sorry, had to cause your mom's a btch," and still be welcomed with open arms like when we were all a family? Is he really dumb enough to think that being a good parent is as easy as throwing blank checks around? Does he really think they're going to buy some crap that he "had to leave" because their mother, who's volunteered at every school they've ever gone to, coached their soccer teams, plays with and feeds the whole neighborhood full of their friends, drives them all GD over town, takes them fruit picking, teaches them to shave their legs and what to do about periods and boyfriends, holds them until the tylenol kicks in when they have a fever or rubs their little legs at 3 am when they have growing pains, makes the best birthday cakes in town, always makes sure they have glow stick bracelets for sleepovers, and has been there every GD day of their lives no matter what they needed is "too hard to live with?"
They are children, not idiots.
Oops, kind of got ranty there, sorry :)