Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: forthetrees on February 17, 2011, 07:34:59 PM
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Okay, this is stemming from having seen the words "passive aggressive" and "conflict avoidant" in several threads to describe the WAS and then reading a recent article about early male pattern baldness increasing the risk of prostate cancer 2.5 times the norm. In describing the increased cancer risk, the article stated that the men who go bald quite young- starting in their 20´s- have a much higher hormone level than other men. Thus my question is, are these men more susceptible to a more dramatic MLC (versus a transition) because they experience a greater drop in hormone levels than other men upon moving into middle age?
Is there a connection between guys who go bald early and those who experience these drastic personality changes as we have all seen up close and personal? My H fits the early balding pattern and I remember the description of the tomato from the pizza box incident sliding down the exposed forehead of unfortunate H (Voyager´s?).
Humor me and let me know- balding or hairy?
Thanks,
FTT
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LOL Hairy and no grey
But conflict avoidant and passive aggressive
Actually H didn't need to shave regualrly till he was almost 30.
It will be interesting to see if H is an odd one out.
But that couldalso fit in with the hormone drop, becasue if it had been increasing till only a few years ago the drop...
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Lots of hair, grey very young and big time conflict avoider
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Lots of hair, lots of new gray the past couple of years, conflict avoider.
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Lots of hair, people pleaser, fearful, abandonment issues, a little gray, eyesight going downhill for the last year (readers only, but you know how that feels!) and hard of hearing since BD. Erectile Dysfunction for at least 5 years... he's only 46, but has alcohol issues and high cholesterol. I think the depression and now outrageous amounts of alcohol and constant driving for work (like a truck driver!) are the actual culprits of the ED issue. He was a virile stud up until about 5 years ago...
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Lots of hair. Wavy, curly. Very gray.
L
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Receding and thinning. Very conflict avoidant - which he thinks makes him heroic.
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I remember the description of the tomato from the pizza box incident sliding down the exposed forehead of unfortunate H (Voyager´s?).
Yep it was my h's balding and definitely less hairy head which played host to the tomato. There's a kind of poetic justice for me knowing he will always be immortalised as the balding non hairy conflict avoidant bloke with a slice of tomato on his head. It brings me a sense of peace and inner calm. :) :) :)
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Receding hairline, v. conflict avoidant and passive aggressive. Why was I with him? ;)
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Receding and thinning. Very conflict avoidant - which he thinks makes him heroic.
Mine H too! And now he is growing the comb over and actually has a mullet. Or did the last time I saw him.... LOL
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Receding hairline, conflict avoider.
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Thick head of hair (like his Dad and my son!!).
A smooth negotiator (not sure if that's a conflict avoider)
P
xx
Choose Life
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MF - I say my H is v. conflict avoidant. However, that has been a problem over the last year or so more than anything else - during MLC. Before he didn't like conflict (who does?) but he was not "avoidant". Funny, though, he diagnosed himself as conflict avoidant, told his psychologist giving some examples to prove it (I could do that, and I am not conflict avoidant) and so, not surprisingly, she concurred with his own self diagnoses. Sometimes (and no offense to anyone in that profession) but therapists are obtuse. :D
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Mine is a definite conflict avoider. Big, big accomodator.
After BD - he kept saying that his entire life he took the path of least resistance and did what everyone else wanted him to do.....
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Very thin hair and extremely receding hairline. He is also a conflict avoider.
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Started to go bald in his mid twenties, like his father.
I thought there was a gene controlling this rather than hormones.
Conflict avoider.
Passive Agressive behaviour
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This is indeed interesting.
My wife has extremely thin hair that has been gray for 30 years(dyed brown).
So I could never know how gray it was.
She is on hair medication to help thicken her hair, that has been helping her, plus rogaine.
Somehow I think this is part of middle age more than mid life crisis.
I think that their might be faulty logic here, but just my take on this.
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I think they are midlife things that can fuel the crisis since they realize that they are no longer so young anymore, so not necessarily the crisis itself but definitely play a role.
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I think this is a very reasonable thought. My xH started saying things like, "you're going to leave me when I go completely bald" and "I'm getting fat"..........he never was "fat" in my opinion. But then that's when all the working out/exercise would start and worrying about his hair thinning and trying different hair products. Now that I look back at it this started a year or two before BD. It sure messes with their minds!
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LMM, my H used to like his slightly graying hair when it started a few years ago but for a few months prior to BD he started dying his hair and for the first half of the MLC kept it dyed. He stopped for many months but then has again once or twice fairly recently, so who knows. I personally like the gray.
When the hair coloring started is when my H also started working out like a mad man, losing weight, buying "young", tight clothes, etc. He hasn't been to the gym in very well over a year (maybe year and a half at least or more) and those tight clothes don't fit anymore. :) He for the most part dresses more like the way he used to now.
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xH is very balding, very conflict avoidant, fits the textbook "passive aggressive", also diabetic, high cholesterol and hypertensive. But absolutely thought he should extra gold stars every day for his ability to avoid arguments, (like Faith's H). A real HERO for not voicing an opinion (this is what he thought; I obviously thought differently).
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Trusting, my xH showed up at the house back in October and had on "teenage" clothes......all black and tight, stretch type shirt. I even noticed his black shoes had Velcro straps......I've also seen him in his full black leather attire for riding his motor. I didn't show him any shock or disapproval of how he looked..........not to his face. I just waited until I was alone and just shook my head and smirked at the silliness of it all. I haven't seen him since so I have no idea where he's at in this MLC circus. I also noticed that he was getting his hair cut very, very short. He did the extreme exercising also.........for a few months and then stopped and then started again. It's strange.
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Lots of hair, little grey but big time conflict avoider and while in MLC, very passive aggressive.
Looks young for his age though gained weight a few years ago. Took weight off, then bulked up with gigantic muscles, bought new and tight clothes, carries hair and primping products with him in the car, spends tons of time in front of the mirror and glancing at anything reflective. Considered very good looking and admittedly terrified of losing that. Like I care. Never cared about his looks. Look where that got me.
Steals my anti-aging products....but I put a stop to that and said BUY YOUR OWN! LOL!
Bonnie
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Bonnie, my H also started buying some anti-aging products for a bit there, too. I don't think he really ever used them much! CLEARLY the getting older thing really bothers them! :)
LMM - I have never said anything about the style of clothes to my H, and I had plenty of opportunities. I would just be inwardly rolling my eyes and laughing. His MLC friends (which as far as I know are the only friends he really has that he keeps in contact with) are a good 15 years younger than him, and I saw it as trying to dress just like them, even down to his facial hair.
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My H has thinning hair, but not bad.
He is VERY passive aggressive always tries to avoid conflict. During this ordeal, he has said things like, "I'm tired of trying to make everyone happy" and "now I need to take care of myself." He also admits to not being where he wants in life (working in warehouse/factory jobs instead of being successful playing music).
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Trusting,
Glad you mentioned the facial hair. My H grew a goatee and said he liked that it made him look like a bad-a**, edgy, and as if he was telling the world to "f" off. Hmmm. Funny thing was, it DID look like that so every time I looked at him, I thought he was indeed telling me to "F" off. lol.
JFF - same here. Unhappy with career, station in life and tired of making everyone happy. Sigh.
Bonnie
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My h also colors his goatee. He never cared about gray hairs pre-MLC. Now, he constantly primps in the bathroom....coloring this, trimming that, uses cologne now...never did before.
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The main discussion here is not so much about balding and grey but about nature versus nurture.
Balding or receding and greying are natural consequences of aging. Yes, the degree to which these happen in an individual are hormonal--which is typically genetic, though perhpas lifestyle and environment--chemicals, diet etc. may also have an affect.
But the greatest factor to how a person handles life transitions is nurture, not nature (genetics). Genetics may increase susceptibility--such as those with a greater tendency toward addiction. You may see familial patterns either because of such addictive or other tendencies, but in particular because of repetition in family dynamics--those who are abused often become abusers.
MLCers typically have an historical pattern of poor coping skills when going through life transitions. The midlife transition has a lot to integrate and thus those who have failed to successfully integrate during other transitions will have a significantly greater crisis than their previous transitional crises. Why do they have these poor coping skills? Usually due to upbringing--trauma and crisis in their formative years. This does not mean their parents did anything wrong; trauma may be the death or illness of a parent or sibling. But the younger MLCer did not process and release, but rather buried the fears within their Shadow.
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Another thing that has been pointed out to me several times is my H's narcissistic behaviors. He is very self-absorbed now....HE only exists.....with the kids occasionally.
One of my good friends pointed out that she has always seen my H as self-centered, prior to MLC. He is an athlete and has gone all over the country to compete in various events. I always enjoyed attending, until my twins were born and it made things much more difficult. Still, H continued to travel and do these things. I always felt I was being a "good wife" by encouraging the trips and supporting him, congratulating him. Of course, in those days he always included me in every aspect. I didn't look at it the same way.
Anyway, the other day, I was cleaning out a closet. I found bin after bin of clippings he had saved about race results, awards, cards, notes.....all kinds of congratulatory things. Some of these went as far back as elementary school. I truly feel that my H never considered himself good enough. I don't think it was narcissism as much as it was to convince himself of his worth. Why else would someone save clippings from elementary school? He has lots of abandonment issues as a child....kind of thrown away by his dad and later by his mom. Sad really.
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JFF - same here. Unhappy with career, station in life and tired of making everyone happy. Sigh.
Mine has said the exact same things.
It is amazing how many similarities there are between MLCers.
MLCers typically have an historical pattern of poor coping skills when going through life transitions. The midlife transition has a lot to integrate and thus those who have failed to successfully integrate during other transitions will have a significantly greater crisis than their previous transitional crises.
I posted on a thread earlier this week about whether my H had had a previous crisis, and he did but on a much, much smaller scale. I really can't quite figure out what in his childhood caused him to have such poor coping skills (and looking back, I can see this in many different ways through the almost 20 years I have known him). I can't think of anything "major," but I do think he didn't feel validated enough as a child. I have also recently begun to realize that his mom, who is a wonderful lady, just is very shut off from her emotions to the point that it is bothering my H now as it has become glaringly obvious and I wonder what part that might play in this, among other things. His family has a tendency to ignore or push aside/ not discuss the unpleasant and sometimes you just have to face things head on and deal with them. Maybe he just never was taught how to do that.
Just thinking aloud here . . . (when I should be working :))
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Wow, that sheds some light.
My H was adopted as an infant - him birth mother was 16 and it was 1964....she wanted to keep him but was not allowed to. He always told his adoptive parents his birth mother didn't want him. They tried to explain but he wouldn't buy it. She contacted him when he was in his 30's and though they are friends, there is always an edge I think.
His parents adopted a sister for him a year after his adoption. Then my MIL concieved and gave birth to a very unhealthy child. She was like an angel apparently. She died during open heart surgery at age 5 or 6.
My H cried once saying the only child his parents could "have" died. As if he was not as worthy of being their child.
About 3 years ago, while visiting him birth mom (she lives in a different state far away), she pulled him aside to tell him she found out his birth father (who she had not seen since 1964 and did not even know my husband existed) died a few years ago.
I have to wonder how much all of this contributes to the current identity crisis. It must.
Bonnie
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Thinng hair on head getting grey.. LOTS of body hair...NO CONFLICT AVOIDENCE Creates them more than avoids them. False sense of pride. Definate anger issues stemming from childhood. Easily offended and humilated. Sexually submissive. Complicates the simplest things. Lacks sense of self and self worth.
VERY self centered..I'd say Narcessitic for the duration of the 27 years we've been together.
Oh yes I forgot TOTALLY CHARMING ALSO..great sense of humor.
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My H:
full head of hair
huge conflict avoider
passive aggressive
compartmentalizes different parts of his life (family, friends, work)
some narcissism, mostly started after bomb drop
martyr
charming
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My H is hairy with only a little grey and definite conflict avoider, people pleaser.... leading to his favourite saying of.....doing things for me now :o
This could link in to RCR saying they missed development stages as my H has never dealt with anything before this in his life...even as a child he did everything to please his parents and get noticed as the good boy being the youngest of 9 in a severely dysfunctional family. He was always held up as "the only normal one" , even by his siblings.
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My H has full head of hair just starting to thin slightly on top. Still dark but quite a bit of grey appeared over the last couple of years.
Definitely a conflict avoider. Said recently that 'I just wanted to do things for me'.
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I just want to know when we get to say "I want to do things for ME!" Oh, right, never mind....we're not in MLC so we don't get to say that.
If this thing ever blows over, am I allowed to do and say everything I want for 2,3,4,5 years?
Bonnie >:(
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Bonnie, I am with you on that! I feel like I have been carrying my H and the family by myself for years with his issues, workaholism, and now the MLC! I am ready for MY turn! :o
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Me too.
I looked after home and family for as long as I can remember. Still waiting for my turn but can't see it happening any time soon.
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hello all,
my husband's Mum dies aged 38, he was1 5 and his sister 12, hid Dad remarried within a year to a Czech aldy who couldn't speak any English. My husband's sister was sent off an a French exchange visit for 3 weeks justa fter her Mum had died and wasn't told about it - she was buried by the time she acme back from the trip.
my husband had to empty his Mum's wardrobe of ehr clothes the day before his Dad's new sife arrived from Czech - he had slept in his Dad's room because he had threatened to blow his brains out.
H's Dad threw himself into his work (despite promises to the contrary) and had 2 children very quickly afterwards. H's Dad totally dotes on his 2 younger children and my husband had real issues that they got everything that he felt entitled to from his Dad/mum's stage building things up!
My husband could never talk about his Mum and her death after his step mother arrived.
As part of my process of trying to get to grips with my situation I feel certain what happened to my husband at 15 is the main trigger for his MLC - his maternal grandmotehr died in 2002, he lost his job in 2006, his paternal Grandma dies in October 2008 - his affair with the ex girfriend he was going at with from 15 to 21 started in November 2008 - got physical in April 2009 and BD October 2010.
I think it's all about the poor handling of his mother's death and the emtional/phsyical detached approach of his dad which is the main trigger for my husband's MLC.
I hope it is not a genetic things which has caused my hsuband's MLC - maybe it is a set of genetic charateristics which can manifest themselves with physical conditions (i.e. dyslexics often have very spotty and dry skin at the tops of their arms but no one really knows why) that mean certain types of people are lessa ble to cope with stressors day to day???
Justt hinking out loud here really - I look for signs in my kids they could be suspeptible to MLC malaise but so far think they are in the clear!!
Time will tell I suppose!
P
xx
Choose Life
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So, it has become evident that the receding hairline theory is not holding any water. But hey, it was worth a shot. The conflict avoidance seems to be a more common factor.
I was sweeping up twigs yesterday and this popped into my mind: My MIL had several miscarriages before H was born and H was the first baby to go full term and survive. I´m wondering if she held back from full attachment to spare herself the excrutiating pain of loss in case he didn´t make it. She then had four more children, the first two were close together in age. Just wondering as my H has lead a privileged life and I don´t know where this is coming from. (Youngest sister died in ´95 from cancer before starting college).
FTT
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FTT - I think in some cases it is hard to pinpoint, especially if there aren't things that are glaringly obvious. My H's case is the same way, and maybe if he were to talk to a therapist who knew the things to dig for, we might figure it out. I used to NEED to figure it out, and I am finally accepting (mostly) that it is what it is and I may never know this side of heaven. I do have some general ideas and do know that my BIL is and always has been a mess as an adult so there is something there I believe . . . I still would like to know. Understanding definitely helps.
The fact that your MIL may not have been able to fully attach emotionally to your H as a child makes sense after all those miscarriages. My heart ached for her reading about that and then the death of another child later on. :'(