[nah]

I’m not sure if we are all talking about the same thing.

Yes, anger is useful and a necessary tool for healing.

In other groups I’m often attacked by what I call the “forgiveness police.”  Many people who don’t get it, want the betrayed to jump from shock to forgiveness.

No, it’s normal to cry, punch things, make mistakes, etc.

Someone on this thread said they vent about the affair partner while they’re driving. Perfectly normal.

All I’m saying is publicly, on Facebook, to the MLCer and ESPECIALLY the affair partner...

Hold your head up high and don’t give them one crumb of satisfaction. Venting directly at them gives them exactly what they want. Attention that they “won”

You will get so much more satisfaction in the long run with them looking back at you wondering why you don’t care. You might have to pretend at first, in time it becomes your reality.

It’s repeated often, bc it’s true...,
The best revenge is living a good life.

[Keep believing]

onward,
exactly.  dehumanize an ow! whats wrong with that. ?   i am not calling anyone names on here. im strictly talking about ow.   and yes swearing helps. same difference in my opinion in calling ow names . and i dont know anyone on here doing it ALL THE TIME. 

[serenity]

I haven’t really commented on here because I didn’t like the way the discussion was going and more times than I care to remember we have witnessed this in-fighting which saddens me!

When I came to this site 7 or so years ago it was a warm, caring place to be. I don’t remember anyone verbally attacking anyone else’s posts!

Lately there seems to be a lot of nastiness and aggression creeping in which to someone who’s feeling fragile and vulnerable isn’t a pleasant experience!

Personally I’ve always had a ‘name’ for my H’s other women bar one because I felt they were all vile, ghastly woman who my children hated! Only one seemed a nice lady but she didn’t last long and from what I know my H hurt her and her young children deeply. Having names for the other OW was my way of coping/dealing with it. It was for me! I wasn’t making them important but I couldn’t bring myself to use their actual names so I gave them other names.

I’ve barely felt much anger throughout my H’s crisis - I’m not any angry person. I’m loving, caring and generally happy. Someone referred to me recently as a sunny person. I am slow to anger. Maybe I’m the odd one out but I just don’t really feel angry. All I’ve ever really felt is huge, deep sadness for what my H did to us, our life, finances, home, children etc!

I think none of us should fear what we post or what someone else may say. I only object if another poster is aggressive, rude or just downright nasty.

Discussion threads on the whole are useful. I just can’t see why they often deteriorate into bitter arguments

X

[Onward]

1Trouble, in the spirt of discussion, I wanted to explore some of this a little further with you.

Yes this is a discussion but frankly in some posts I see judgement and discouragement.....

I'm sincerely not sure which posts those are. One person's judgement can be another's wise counsel, and at some point it is important to recognize that what you see (the collective you, not you you) is exactly that - what you see.

And sadly, what I think some of you fail to realise is not everyone is so forthright.

True not everyone is, but do you see that there is a little judgement in your statement, too?
I mention it, not start an argument, but as an example that judgement can be found everywhere if one looks or that is what one is pre-disposed to see.

There are some very fragile people on this board, just starting out their journey, there are others like BS who is dealing with so much crap in RL she needs a safe place here.....
There are others who read these boards and are frightened to post and when a thread goes, as this one has gone, I have no doubt they will not have the confidence to post.

This is true, and good to be mindful

I feel saddened the way this board continually seems to go this way lately and it is starting to discourage those who really need support to reach out and get it.

I partly expect this was going to happen, and that's why I opened the thread explaining why I felt it was necessary....If I had of left the name calling bit out, then I am sure something else would have derailed this thread because thats the way it seems to go lately.

Or, maybe the name-calling bit is exactly what concerned folks. I don't know.
But it's possible that encouraging people to call the OW/OM names lends the impression that it is OK to call people names. And that spills onto the forum. And that concern about the arguing is shared.

When I read posts saying 'personally I never had a problem with the OW....' and "I realised its stopping my healing'...…

'and you should stop focusing on the OW'.....which I have seen on this hread and others ..
it really dismays me.....

OK -- can you share why it dismays you?

If someone has personally never had a problem, that is their truth. If someone shares that they realized it's stopped their healing, that is their truth. And isn't sharing the range of things that helped our healing important?.

Because those posts are, inadvertently, dismissing how some people are feeling OR making others feel somehow they are weak or inadequate for feeling how they do....have you ever thought of that?.................

Are they? Or is that a perception?(she says gently)
If someone sincerely experienced healing by NOT venting about the OP, or by stopping venting about the OP, how is that dismissive or calling someone weak?

There are some people who were gaslighted before BD there were some who were told they were never loved......and then saw their MLC walk out the door to be with the OW..........and for some (sadly) it has effected their self esteem.

This I know is true. Because it's my truth.

There are some still being hounded by their OW or both their MLC'er and OW ....
(this has not been my experience BTW) but that doesnt stop me feeling huge compassion for those LBS's
I wanted to bring those all together here to talk about and share their experiences and to get support......

Not my experience either. As I've said earlier, support comes in many forms, and experience does, too.  I've found that venting actually hurts me more than it helps me. If someone wants to vent, go ahead and vent.

But do you not want me to talk about my experience -- or the sharing of that experience - because you think it isn't compassionate? It's quite compassionate if one can see the message as 'I have found that venting makes me hurt more, not less, and I don't want to see you hurt more, either."

There are some, like BS, who have to hand their small children over to the OW ....there are some who have lost homes, livelihoods and everything in a blink of an eye .......and see the MLC'er and OW together .....supposedly living in 'paradise'.
and are finding it hard to move forward .....
They have every right to be angry and hurt and if some direct that toward the OW then why shouldnt they.....?

Sadly, this is the experience that binds pretty much all LBS' together. 

We all process stuff in our own time JUST BECAUSE IT WASN't YOUR EXPERIENCE DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT OR MAKE IT SO..

Completely agree

And just because you are forthright and have no problem saying how you feel, not everyone is the same.....so we need to step back here and be kinder and a bit more thoughtful toward others...…..a lot of the people contributing on this post have been here for a long time.....but I feel some people forget how they felt when they first come here and some are only seeing everything from their own experience...….IMO... 

Your feelings are your own, and you have every right to feel them. But none of us really know the motivation, memory or intention of another unless we ask and they have a chance to clarify.

I hope now this thread can go forward in a more positive light and I hope it hasn't discouraged anyone who is struggling with the OW's presence from getting the support they need

And OP your latest post proves my point  ..................Wheeling out these mantras regarding detachment and asking them why they cant detach ...….makes people who are struggling feel inadequate.....
it takes a very long time to get to detachment and along the way you need to vent.........and talk and share to get to that hallowed ground..

Speaking only from my experience, I found the concept of detachment one of the things that helped from the very beginning.  Being reminded to detach never made me feel inadequate. It definitely frustrated me that I found it hard to detach. I would mutter to myself A LOT: "detach, detach, detach'.

Detachment is the encouragement my LBS friends used, and still use, to help me find solid ground on the days when I  still struggle and want to scream.

I'm not bringing this up to disregard any one, or dismiss them, or discourage them. Only in wholehearted agreement that we all must and will find our way. And not everyone's way is the same.

[nah]

Nice post Onward.

Maybe it’s bc I’m the youngest of five so I have thick skin.

Very rarely do I read a post that angers me, even if it’s directed straight at me. I have often been needlessly defended by others bc someone disagrees with my opinion. It’s just an opinion. I also notice posters often referring to the “good old days” on here when everyone got along. Ummm.., no, people are people and I’ve seen the disagreements have been going on since I can remember.

Anyways.,,

Personally I feel most posters (esp the long timers) come from a caring place, most write with respect, sometimes we are trying to be helpful but might not put it on the right words (I’ve done this) and I have often seen people apologize.

Hey, we all have something in common, our hearts have been broken, but we still have enough left to at least try to lift up the ones behind us.

I appreciate you. <3

[Keep believing]

That is right. EVERYONES  WAY IS NOT THE SAME . So once again , if some want to vent (call ow names) why has this thread become about  which way is right or wrong regarding healing? I just dont get it.  its just a way to get anger out.   if i choose to beat a wall , who cares? if i choose to call ow names , who cares?  let lbs go through the grieving process  the way it works for them. I just dont get how this can be an arguement / disagreement.

[Lady Grey]

Sorry for any confusion…I posted this earlier and then panicked and un-posted….seems that for me currently, the process of carefully going over things, trying to find the right words, hoping that what I am meaning to say is what I will be understood to be saying etc is a bit much like writing emails to my h early on, trying to sort things out regarding our children and finances….
This was before I realised that however well thought out, reasonable, kind etc MY messages were, h/ow would come back with whatever crazy/irrelevant/monster/awfulness they were going to anyway...

Also with h/ow and the online prying, I don't feel particularly safe posting and am struggling to balance enough information to make sense here, with enough information to identify me...

What I posted earlier was a question, particularly for anyone who has needed to use a private investigator or similar to find out more about ow/m.
Though thinking about it now, I'm not even sure this thread is the right place to ask this? My apologies if it's not...

I don’t have a story thread yet, so a little background:

BD was late 2017, found out about ow (BD2) a couple of months later. H now lives with ow, I moved out with our kids. I have had legal advice.

Our kids are lower primary school aged, ow has kids in their early 20’s - she is older than me, possibly older than h who is 8 years older than me (I’m late 30’s). H is now “Mom’s cool rocker boyfriend” to her kids and barely sees his own - twice for 1/2 an hour each time in the past 9 months, doesn’t even phone them. I contact h infrequently regarding our kids and finances. He almost never contacts me. A Semi-Vanisher maybe?

Anyway, h’s new MLC friends (who he met ow through) are not a particularly appealing crowd - drugs, restraining orders, abandoned children etc. and I know there are drugs with h and ow.

So when/if h remembers that he has kids and wants to see them or if ow pushes to get involved (she wrote h’s emails early on regarding our children and financial matters (I know this, not suspicion) and I believe also influenced h to question my care of our kids) I would want to know more about what my children are dealing with. Ideally I’d delay them meeting ow for any length of time I possibly could.

So, anyone who has used a PI to find out about ow/m, what was your experience?

I’m guessing the legalities/logistics of what information can be found will be different country to country, but did you find useful information in your situation?

What impact did knowing so much more about ow/m have on you?

I get that this is next level “focusing on the ow/m”, and is only something I would consider in the interests of protecting my children. I’m also interested in hearing reasons why doing this is a very bad idea, or any other things it would be good to consider.
 
Thankfully this is not something I am needing to do right now, but as someone who likes to have all the information, and some time to sit with things and to know what to look out for/what questions to ask etc, I thought I’d see what others may have experienced….

[Thunder]

I have refrained from posting on this thread because my H had no ow.

So I never, thank the Lord above, felt the rage that many of you have had to go through.
If my H had found an alienator, would I have called her names?  Knowing me, probably.  Would I have felt bad about it?  Probably not.

I have no idea what I would have done, but I sure as heck don't blame one person on here, male or female for venting or raging about these parasites.   Some of them have been positively horrible people.

I have used "pond scum" when referring to someone's ow more than once.  So sue me.  That's what I personally think of these people.  Scum.

They may not be the right person to blame, as a matter of fact their not, they made no vows to us, but they were part of the "team" who helped break up the marriage.  What kind of people are they?  They knew, or found out, these were married people who in most cases had children.  How do they justify being with these MLCers?
Calling them broken, selfish or desperate is spot on.

Btw I loved Airmid's post, and also yours Nah.  You not perfect?     Who knew.

The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement. Love each other, Love your Spouses and Love yourselves. 
No where does it say to love the alienator.

Also I can find no where in the Code of Conduct that states you can not call an alienator a name.
Maybe I missed it.

[1trouble]

Hi Evergreen

Thank you for posting and I am so sorry for the situation you find yourself in x


I used a PI when I realised my MLC'ers OW wasn't healthy and she knew who I was and where I lived, but at the time I knew nothing about her so for me it was protection, if I needed it.

All I had to go on was her phone number.

The PI said they maybe able to get all they needed from the phone number BUT if it was a pay as you go mobile then they would need to do more investigation. 
The agreement was the £400.00 would cover whatever they needed to do whether it was simple or whether they had to do other things (Which I wont go into on here) .
All I wanted to know was who she was and where she lived, to put me on a level footing with her

As it turned out they came back an hour later with what I needed to know and her facebook page.
I realised as soon as I saw her picture, she had been in my road a few weeks before which unnerved me a bit

Personally it was the best £400.00 I spent

Keep posting Evergreen xx


Thunder great post xx

[xyzcf]

Also I can find no where in the Code of Conduct that states you can not call an alienator a name.
Maybe I missed it.

Thunder, perhaps this is only my interpretation, it is from the Mission Statement, not the Code of Conduct concerning name calling, either to the OW, other forum members, our MLCer, their families..in other words being respectful to others.

Teaching and encouraging Agape and Forgiveness for all people and all situations.

We make no judgments; all are welcome. This is a place of love and support, not a place to degrade and insult others—including your MLC spouse.

The topic of this thread is not an issue. The need to vent, to be angry, to have a place to let off steam is understandable.

Respectful discussion is always welcomed but language is important. Obviously, there is a very large divide over this issue..it is a very sensitive one for many and some posters feel the need to use degrading terms in reference to the OW/OM.

Many have expressed why they don't consider that to be helpful to the LBSer and certainly the insults towards other HS members is very sad to see.