[Anjae]

... does it move them forward? I think it does. It's an identity crisis, they have to figure out who they are.

On that we disagree. As you can read on previous posts of mine, I have never know of a real life MCLer whose affair has moved them forward, including Mr J. The only thing OW2 in particular did was held him back. OW1 was short lived in the open. Going by HS the affair also does not seem to move a MLCer foward. If anything, it hinders them.

A followup question to that (for me) is...... do some MCL'ers flat out refuse to have a PA because of what's left of their morals?

Some, maybe. Mostly, the reason why some MLCers don't have an affair is because they don't have the energy for it = wallowers (even if there is the odd wallower with an affair). A handful of others may be too absorbed in some other MLC thing to care about having an affair.

The guilty may be because they were caught, not because of some remaining moral compass at work.

Most MLCers have affairs, and yes, they either lose they morals or are too desperate, which ends up being the same thing, the morals are no more.

[barbiedoll]

It’s definitely to make them feel something

.

I agree with this and my husband has admitted as much. Said it was better than feeling "nothing". It is some attempt at feeling "normal again" .

It's about feeling something, and that is a purpose

.

Yes. It is part of the purpose. Atleast superficially . Subconsciously other things are shifting and changing .

they are so desperate they don't care.

.

I believe in my case it was acute desperation and pain . He was looking for something to stop the pain and did not care for a second what it was. He was experiencing emotions that were so overwhelming ...some for the 1st time in his life ... . Indeed, a deep and painfull identity crisis.

My sister also experienced a MLC and did some awful things that are haunting to her. Only thru this experience with my H does she realize what happened to her. She understands my H in ways I cannot.... I agree that at some point , they do see the OW/OM for who they actually are behind the fog. My husband has said many things that do confirm that belief .

[Nas]

Mego,

She’s happy to help. One of the things she said which resonates a lot is that deep in the recesses of her brain she knew the relationship with om was not right but felt compelled to do it. That it was like a fix of feeling good and it was all she thought about that nothing else mattered.
That she thought she hated her h and his pressure made her feel justified in doing what she was doing but the guilt she felt throughout her MLC was massive.

What your sister said echoes what others like denjef have said. Her timeline also follows those like denjef who have shared their story. It’s always within three years max that they realized they still loved their spouses. Those stories are in the minority.

There are many, many, many, many on this forum with MLCers who have been with the OP for four, five, even 10 or more years. It’s my personal feeling that awakenings like what your sister describes are not happening with these MLCers.

My husband has lived with another woman for almost three years. We have virtually no contact. I have left him alone for years. He is not moving forward in his personal growth. He is simply living a new life.
I would just caution that S&A’s sister is one story and may provide some interesting insight into what she was thinking and feeling, but it’s her unique story. Just like denjef’s story was unique to her. Lots of people hoped their spouse would follow denjef’s path and were disappointed when their situation didn’t unfold that way. So that’s all I’m saying. She’s going to be bombarded with questions but everyone should proceed with caution...

[barbiedoll]

I would just caution that S&A’s sister is one story and may provide some interesting insight into what she was thinking and feeling, but it’s her unique story. Just like denjef’s story was unique to her. Lots of people hoped their spouse would follow denjef’s path and were disappointed when their situation didn’t unfold that way. So that’s all I’m saying. She’s going to be bombarded with questions but everyone should proceed with caution...

.

100% agree with this and was about to type something similar ... but could not have done better. Thanks Nas .

[Anjae]

What your sister said echoes what others like denjef There are many, many, many, many on this forum with MLCers who have been with the OP for four, five, even 10 or more years. It’s my personal feeling that awakenings like what your sister describes are not happening with these MLCers.

This. There is a clear difference between MLCers like Shock's sister,  Bee, Sewing22, Denjef, Acorn's husband, RCR's husband, Barbie's Husband, etc. and the long term and very long term MLCer who spend years on end with an alienator. Nas, Mr J OW2 is no more. She has not been OW2 in some 8 months, but they spend 10 years together, 9 of those sharing a house.

He hasn't wake up. If anything, he woke up a bit more after OW1 was no more, than dived deep with OW2. He seems to have replaced OW with his new thing, a record label. Still djing and clubbing, of course.

That I know of, we have no stories from MLCers with extremely long crisis who have spend many years with the alienator. We need Mr Trustandlove, or Mr J, or any of the other never coming out of crisis and spend ages with OW or going through OWs MLCers to be out of crisis and tell us their views on the matter.

MLCers with shorter timelines do not help those of us with the MLCer whose crisis never seem to end, but may help others.

3 years with OW is not that much in MLC world, Nas. It is towards the short end of the spectrum.

[megogirl]

3 years  with OW is not that much in MLC world, Nas. It is towards the short end of the spectrum.

Per RCR: "Most get through the tunnel within a few years."

I trust her......

[Thunder]

I have never heard RCR say that, Mego.

That most get through it within a few years?
Where did she say that?  Maybe you can refer me to that article.

I've been on here for a long time but have not seen this happen very often at all.

I do believe the worse may be over maybe after 3/4 years but it seems to take much longer to actually come out of their crisis.  Just my observation.

[RedStar]

That I know of, we have no stories from MLCers with extremely long crisis who have spend many years with the alienator. We need Mr Trustandlove, or Mr J, or any of the other never coming out of crisis and spend ages with OW

We may not have any firsthand ones, but I recall a recent post where someone mentioned an MLCer they know of who reached out to the LBS after 15 years with the OW. I'm sure there have to be others of really long duration. But the very long-term LBSs are less likely to keep posting in the interim if they're firsthanders, I'd think--not least because it's quite likely after so much time that he or she has given up on the original MLCer and may also have met someone new.

The fact remains that HS posters are a very small sample of LBSs in the world, so it's hard to predict what could happen along the MLC curve on the graph since the range of time they take is soooo variable.

[RedStar]

I have never heard RCR say that, Mego.

That most get through it within a few years?
Where did she say that?  Maybe you can refer me to that article.

I've been on here for a long time but have not seen this happen very often at all.

I do believe the worse may be over maybe after 3/4 years but it seems to take much longer to actually come out of their crisis.  Just my observation.

There's always the issue that MLC and replay are often conflated. Maybe replay is over after 3 or 4 years, but the whole crisis...probably not, I agree.

[Standing Strong]

That I know of, we have no stories from MLCers with extremely long crisis who have spend many years with the alienator. We need Mr Trustandlove, or Mr J, or any of the other never coming out of crisis and spend ages with OW

We may not have any firsthand ones, but I recall a recent post where someone mentioned an MLCer they know of who reached out to the LBS after 15 years with the OW. I'm sure there have to be others of really long duration. But the very long-term LBSs are less likely to keep posting in the interim if they're firsthanders, I'd think--not least because it's quite likely after so much time that he or she has given up on the original MLCer and may also have met someone new.

The fact remains that HS posters are a very small sample of LBSs in the world, so it's hard to predict what could happen along the MLC curve on the graph since the range of time they take is soooo variable.

Well my MIL is an MCL'er..... and we've had as deep of talks as she's had with anyone on the subject (I didn't truly know the depths of which until this happened to me). She's coming to visit for a month in AUG and I have a lot of questions to ask this time around.
I assumed she was still running, but now I'm not 100% sure..... maybe a new life chosen and committed to once FIL had remarried and given up on her. I know she came out of the tunnel when he was going to remarry after 10 years D (and she was M to OM). That was 20 years ago. I do know she still clings to the lies she told herself and OM told her when she left FIL.
OM passed away several years ago and she's with someone else (they are not M but live together). The W FIL got was a terrible choice. He was just afraid to grow old and die alone. I think if he had waited a few years longer, and if MIL was shown the truth by someone she trusted like me, she actually would have tried to go home..... or at least asked forgiveness from FIL. I still hope someday she does.

Sooooooo, I may have some insight into the long term MCL'er mind. If there are questions anyone has, I can see if I can frame them into something she may answer. I'm going to have a really deep talk with her while she's here. She thinks she'll be retiring to my home someday. We have a really strong trust and connection.

-SS