[Treasur]

Hmmm, makes sense to me that the more people go along with their 'new happy life' the longer it might run. But then again, family support for the m did not prevent them running so I suspect it won't keep them there if they ever start to feel that internal shift that seems to happen with any recovering MLCer.

The age thing? If we assume that MLC includes some kind of identity crisis, then it might not be simply about being younger but more about a feeling of running out of time to be a different kind of person with a different life? So for some they obviously regress to hanging around with folks in their twenties but for others maybe it is less about being a younger them and more about being a different them.

I partly agree with GiG that too much thinking about ow and the nature and role of the affair/relationship can be a bit of denial. Bc tbh one can speculate but rarely know....and it doesn't change the practical reality that it is happening. Not sure I understand your point about compassion though, GiG...perhaps you can explain a little more how you see that?
The triangle is a real thing though....and for some ow it seems very strong as a part of their story no matter what the LBS does or doesn't do, that ow is 'rescuing' the MLCer in some way bc only she knows what he really needs and appreciates him. Which is a very good reason for not engaging with ow or their relationship at all bc your reactions feed the monkeys.

[Tyks]

This is a really great discussion however I don't think any of it matters at the end of the day. The reality is they are gone. They have their new life that they wanted and whether or not the family accepts it now doesn't matter either because eventually their family will accept it. Life goes on and they don't want to lose their son or daughter over this so they will eventually accept it. My mil was like a mother to me for over 20 years. At first when this happened she said to xh "you really are just like your dad". She told me that I would always be her daughter.  Fast forward almost three years, they all have get togethers and dinners together like one big happy family and I am out. Haven't spoken to mil for over a year.

Does the affair partner help or hinder? They've been going strong for almost three years. At this point it matters not whether it is a help or hinderance. The reality of the situation is they have built a life together and they still continue. We are out. The sooner we see that the better because we will no longer be hindered. Even if you are a stander you have to keep moving forward. If they want to catch up one day that'll be on them.

[Not Applicable]

Treasur-There was a post somewhere above from the original poster to the effect that if the relationship with the OW had a purpose, that she would be more inclined to be compassionate and forgiving of your H. My point is that compassion is something you either have or you don't. So what if the OW is pretty or ugly or nice or nasty or whatever? Does it make a difference about what you feel inside you? I think the most popular excuses people try to come up with is the OW is "controlling" their spouse. People do not want to face the fact that their spouse chose to do what they are doing and want to see him as a puppet who isn't responsible for his behavior. They would rather project the blame on the OW. In most cases to be honest, I do not see actual evidence that these OWs are controlling being presented, so really I think a lot of people here are lying to themselves.

One thing I have learned during this crisis is you are going to feel what you are going to feel. You can't will yourself to feel something you don't. Lying to yourself just will make it more conflicting internally. If you tell yourself that the MLC has a purpose, just so that you can try to will yourself to be compassionate, then you are just setting up a situation where you create cognitive dissonance for yourself.

[Nerissa]

 

Treasur-There was a post somewhere above from the original poster to the effect that if the relationship with the OW had a purpose, that she would be more inclined to be compassionate and forgiving of your H. My point is that compassion is something you either have or you don't. So what if the OW is pretty or ugly or nice or nasty or whatever? Does it make a difference about what you feel inside you? I think the most popular excuses people try to come up with is the OW is "controlling" their spouse. People do not want to face the fact that their spouse chose to do what they are doing and want to see him as a puppet who isn't responsible for his behavior. They would rather project the blame on the OW. In most cases to be honest, I do not see actual evidence that these OWs are controlling being presented, so really I think a lot of people here are lying to themselves.

One thing I have learned during this crisis is you are going to feel what you are going to feel. You can't will yourself to feel something you don't. Lying to yourself just will make it more conflicting internally. If you tell yourself that the MLC has a purpose, just so that you can try to will yourself to be compassionate, then you are just setting up a situation where you create cognitive dissonance for yourself.

But it is entirely natural to use these defences to protect ourselves from information that elicits pain that we are as yet unable to manage.  It’s ok to do this.  But we will know we are completely through it when we are able simply to say that our spouses fell for someone else and left us. I’m Knott here yet.    Compassion isn’t essential for acceptance and we don’t have to feel compassion for someone who was cruel, but if it comes it comes when we are in that space.  It can’t be willed or instructed to come.

[Anon]

I can't feel compassion for someone who intentionally hurts or mistreats me.   I don't want to either.   On the other hand, if there is no intention to do so and if there are some mitigating factors then I may feel compassion.   The context matters to me.   In my own situation,,, I don't believe my h did have intentions to hurt me.   I was just collateral damage along the road to him selfishly finding himself. 

I'm one of those who no longer puts much weight on what ow says or does to influence my h nor whether she is controlling or not.   She truly is nothing in the big scheme of MLC things.   If she dropped dead tomorrow he would still be a MLC wreck.   

I do feel compassion for him in a detached way.   It's impossible for me not to notice the many ways he is living his life in misery despite these being his choices to live this way.   He can't see the forest for the trees and he is truly a slave to his ow addiction - he needs the fix but to stop needing the fix he has to go through the withdrawal and he is no where near strong enough for that.   Vicious cycle so yes, I do have enough compassion for the trapped life he's unwittingly built for himself to move on to forgiving him.   On the other hand,,, it would be hard to forgive him if he left and clearly has a fabulous new life that's everything he ever dreamed of.   No compassion for him is needed in this case.   He's fine but had to destroy my life to have that great new life - tough to find compassion or forgiveness.  But that's not my h's case so compassion and forgiveness are clearly more obtainable. 

fwiw,  I have no sense of cognitive dissonance, nor am I trying to will myself to have compassion.   I either feel it or I don't and nothing is forced.   tbh,,, I think the more detached I get the less compassion I have.   It's not just compassion I feel less of either,,, it's all emotions I feel less of...as I get more detached.    I wonder too at times if forgiveness needs to come before compassion.   idk... therapist appt later this week so I'll bring it up. 

[heroIam]

This is a really great discussion however I don't think any of it matters at the end of the day. The reality is they are gone. They have their new life that they wanted and whether or not the family accepts it now doesn't matter either because eventually their family will accept it. Life goes on and they don't want to lose their son or daughter over this so they will eventually accept it. My mil was like a mother to me for over 20 years. At first when this happened she said to xh "you really are just like your dad". She told me that I would always be her daughter.  Fast forward almost three years, they all have get togethers and dinners together like one big happy family and I am out. Haven't spoken to mil for over a year.

Does the affair partner help or hinder? They've been going strong for almost three years. At this point it matters not whether it is a help or hinderance. The reality of the situation is they have built a life together and they still continue. We are out. The sooner we see that the better because we will no longer be hindered. Even if you are a stander you have to keep moving forward. If they want to catch up one day that'll be on them.

Well, boom.  There it is. 
Though Tyks, as true as it is......easier said than done.  I know this in my mind.  Wish my heart will catch up though!   

I definitely agree with the IL's just accepting - whether they like it or not.  That is the case in my situation.  Their allegiance is to their blood, their son.
My IL's still keep in touch with me and I see them every now and then. 

[Tyks]

Herola., I am not there yet either lol. That was my logical brain talking. I think it takes a very long time to get there, if we ever do

[Standing Strong]

Has there been a comprehensive thread like this on how people dealt with the infidelity? Both during and after?
I'm not there yet (or at least I don't about it know yet) but I'm trying to get my head around it and prepare....... if it can even be prepared for.

Sorry for the semi off-topic hijack, this thread is amazing and thought provoking. I check it everyday.

-SS 

[Anjae]

Having an affair is intentionally hurting, mistreating and disrespecting a spouse. If the MLCer is being selfish the MLCer has no consideration for the LBS. Don't forget many MLCer are physically, verbally and financially abusive. Also legally abusive. Do you think they don't know what they are doing, Anon? Or that the abuse serves some higher purpose?

The affair having no purpose, the MLCer making the choice of getting involved with OW/OM and OW/OM being controlling are different issues. By the very nature of the relationship OW/OM are, or become, controlling.

The more detached we become the less feelings we have towards the MLCer because we are detached from them.

Has there been a comprehensive thread like this on how people dealt with the infidelity? Both during and after?

Not that I know of. There are hundreds of threads of people telling their story. Light and dark purple threads are of people reconnecting or reconciled.

Each person will tend to deal with the affair/living with OW/OM in a different way and, at a point, many just move on and stop caring about the MLCer. They find a new relationship or marriage.

[Anon]

Having an affair is intentionally hurting, mistreating and disrespecting a spouse. Good point.  If the MLCer is being selfish the MLCer has no consideration for the LBS. Don't forget many MLCer are physically, verbally and financially abusive. Also legally abusive. Do you think they don't know what they are doing, Anon? Or that the abuse serves some higher purpose?    I do think they know what they are doing.  What I'm not certain about is if they feel they must do it,,, for whatever reason.  If there is a higher purpose it would be to serve them somehow and I'm just in the way of their reach toward it.  Anything or anyone in their way is going to get kicked aside without any concern for where they land. 

 

When I mull things over trying to find clarity or to find something that makes sense,  I like looking things from both angles or sides and deciding what has any bearing and what doesn't.   Analogy... lining up for a putt on the green.   Most golfers step back,,, bend down and quickly study the lay of the land to figure out what they need to do to get the ball in the cup.  Better golfers though,, will do that and then some.   They also walk to the back side of the green and check out the terrain from that view and see things they couldn't see from the front side.  Or maybe there isn't anything new to see but they have a look anyway,,, just in case.   Most of these better golfers will sink the ball in fewer putts than the golfers who don't bother to take the extra look.   So I'm just looking at all sides and no idea if that is even necessary,,, but doing it anyway ,,, just in case. 

I was challenged to do something like this by my therapist recently in an effort to find compassion as a pre-curser to forgiveness and the final letting go.   I can't find compassion unless I see that something went off the rails for him, somehow.  So how does a normal, sane man just suddenly go off the rails?  The answer is they don't.   If they went off the rails then something wasn't right before.   What was it then that I couldn't see nor anyone else could see because it was something, and that something just might lead me to understand enough to feel compassion and then forgiveness.    I would question the 'going off the rails' theory with him if he seemed like a normal happy guy but that isn't what any of us see that know him.