[marvin4242]

I know this is talked about a lot, and its a widely observed and advised concept. But today with my wife suddenly resuming near daily contact after 1.5 years it struck me very clearly. I was noticing how much I am no longer at all the person I used to be in some ways. And I credit a lot of that with what I read in various sites, therapy and separating myself and reclaiming a version of “me” that was in no way defined by my relationship with my wife (outside of “us” and our relationship).

I think its vital for us LBSes, after the initial shock and having to realize and stabilize our lives, to immediately start moving in to detachment and acceptance. I don’t mean that it just “happens.” It is hard work, it does take time. But like any journey of a thousand steps it begins and continues one step at a time. I think remaining in denial, not accepting the reality that you relationship is over, that the person you knew no longer exists (and will never exist again), not deluding oneself, or trying to hold on and recapture what is already gone is critical. This also includes grieving, allowing anger to come out, self protection and care, and all the various great advice given here and elsewhere. And this is true whether you are a stander, have decided its over, or anywhere in between.

But maybe its just as important to start accepting that the version of “us” that exists will no longer exist. Ever. We will never be the same. This doesn’t have to be good or bad, and it may actually be mixtures of both. But simply accepting that, just like the MLCers, we are now on a journey of change and trying to hold on to “ourselves” as we were is just as futile as trying to hold on to our spouses and lives as they were. The big difference is we can either go into this change kicking, screaming, holding on, denying knowledge and fact, try to control what is happening (and failing) and hurting ourselves and others along the way. Or we can take charge, accept and start a growth process that everyone wisely suggests as our new separate and hopefully more coherent selves. The analogy that always comes to my mind is like being thrown into a river that is rapidly moving with rocks and trees. We can close our eyes, pretend we are not in it and allow the river to smash us from rock to tree, or we can hop into a raft, open our eyes, and start pedaling so we can CHOOSE which direction we go and whether we will hit the rocks or not.

I just wanted to share what is in a lot of ways obvious, but looking at myself and my wife today while we were talking really hit this home. I know I am not the person I was, I know I am no longer attached or wanting anything from her, and I know that her loss and how it has happened has forever altered me. I believe for healthier and happier in most ways, but in some ways I will always have this scar with me. It just is not raw, nor painful, nor crippling. Just a reminder.

[xyzcf]

marvin, I do agree with most that you said.

But I have some comments to make about this:

I think its vital for us LBSes, after the initial shock and having to realize and stabilize our lives, to immediately start moving in to detachment and acceptance. I don%u2019t mean that it just %u201Chappens.%u201D It is hard work, it does take time.

In this comment, there is a sense of "pressure" on the LBSer to make it happen, to forge ahead and "accept" what has happened.

That is good..on paper but due to several factors, not necessarily possible for each of us to do...no matter how much we want to "detach" and"accept", the physiological reactions to PTSD are often beyond our control.

I have observed, that several LBSers seek out "therapy" but in many cases, the therapy isn't addressing PTSD and all the talk therapy in thw world, doesn't resolve what is happening physiologically and emotionally.

I "existed" for 8 years. I did many things in that time to try and regain my equilibrium, to "accept" and "detach"...8 years before I stumbled upon a therapist that helped me.

I was not integrated. The pieces of who I am were circling around my head, I could see them, I could touch them but I could not reintegrate them into my being. Telling myself to move forward just did not work. I went through the actions, travelling, making friends, learning how to golf, getting a dog...but every day I struggled with the end of our marriage and family as something I did not want.

Even now, 10.5 years later (and I believe if you read several other old timer's you will see the same thoughts expressed) there is still a yearning, a longing to be loved, to be with my family. No amount of "acceptance" or "detachment" is going to change what I always believed was right for me.

So, please, do not try and push people into something they cannot attain, even though they are trying to....it's not in everyone's makeup to let go of our lives......we work around it, we build around the "break"..perhaps build a dam to hold back all the sadness we feel.....we do the best we can.

[marvin4242]

Xyzcf: I wasn’t trying to say they should, or push. I completely agree with you. I actually started trauma therapy 2 months after BD1, and I agree with everything you have said. Its not about pressure at all.

But having said that I think we should encourage LBSers, after the important emergency self care, to start thinking about and trying to do these things. I would almost even say that if someone wants to start the process, but it takes time, maybe the time when they are still struggling is not wasted. Maybe there are foundational changes that are happening slowly. Or maybe even wanting to change but not being able builds up the internal pressures needed to finally get us going.

So I wasn’t implying any timeframe, but more a goal, an outlook. An organizing principle emotionally as it were. Its a little like some yoga poses, they are not there to be mastered, there are there for us to struggle with and work on, and learn from the process of trying.

[xyzcf]

I think one of the number one things that helped me was exercise every day and that would include yoga (I am a certified yoga instructor).

I think we do give people good suggestions, but the thing that has only recently been discussed is trauma therapy. Many of us have found that to be very helpful.

I am 65 now, and I feel like I lost many many years of my life...but I know I did all I could to be ok....what I don't want to do is "regret" that so much of my life was damaged by this..so many years that could have been much better...that's all I was trying to get across....don't beat yourself up for how long it takes.

[marvin4242]

That is so interesting. After BD I also started doing yoga almost daily, resumed playing Tennis multiple times a week and other exercise. It all helped a great deal. Also the yoga and trauma therapy was/is a great combination to help with PTSD from both the MLC and maybe even from things in our past. So those are all great things to recommend if its an option for LBSes. I understand its not always possible for various reasons.

I for one do not believe in regret. I think we should assess our past correctly (not too harshly nor by denying what has happened), accept that they are a part of our lives and shape us, integrate (as you said) and learn from it. Regret is a trap that will keep us stuck in the past. Anxiety is trap that forces us stuck in the future. I believe when we are in balance we are able to exist in the moment whatever it brings. Even if for a long while after this experience the moment brings sorrow, grieving, loss and pain.

[OffRoad]

I am one who believes that was then, this is now. In the past, I lived my life for the "promised" future. When the kids are older, we'll ( fill in the blank). When they graduate, we'll. ....when we get x amount of money we'll. ....when we retire we'll. ....

Well, there was some of that and now there is none of that. Keeping an eye to the future is still fine for me, but I live in the now at this point. My chances of being able to retire, even with my inheritence, is slim. I am unable to physically do many of the things I loved to do. I could be depressed, but I am one who (fortunately) is able to choose differently for myself. I choose to look at what I do have, and make that work in my favor.

Do I miss what I had? A lot of it, and that's ok. It's ok to want and miss what you had or thought you had as long as that doesn't stop you from living your life. So many people have some weird stigma about "needing therapy". My MLC friend needs it in the worst way, but will not go because "someone might find OUT!" I know some LBS with children fear going to a therapist will look bad in the eyes of the court (they might be right). Websites are great for some, not enough for others. And not everyone can even see that they might need therapy.

Perspectives are funny things. I try and figure out if what I am doing is at least trying to make my world or someone else's a better place. But who is to say what I think is "a better place" is what someone else thinks is a better place. My mother appeared content to be a self-centered, cranky person who only wanted things her way. It didn't do a thing for me, though.

I do agree the LBS gets their own journey, but it doesn't always parallel as in being the same or even similar to the MLCer. It is a journey of self discovery for what the LBS will do, is able to do, wants to do when thrown into this particular river, and they may or may not have a handy raft. Everyone's mileage will vary, but doing nothing at all can rarely be helpful. Better to do something, then change directions if needed. JMO.

[xyzcf]

I am thinking about the roadblocks to obtaining therapy..the cost is a huge factor. The therapist I went to charged $150 US per hour and I went pretty regularly for 2 1/2 years. Not covered by my medical insurance but worth every penny to me now..not many are as fortune to have the financial resources to do what I did.

People working full time may not be able to get time off work, let alone find the right therapist.

Without that therapy, I doubt that I would be in the place I am today. I could not personally break through without that help. I was fragmented, the pieces just would not come together on my own.

Some LBSers are able to "recover" well on their own...we are all snowflakes...different in so many ways and yet the same in so many others.

[barbiedoll]

Xyzcf

Your post meant so much to me . Maybe one of the most important things I have read . I have some more "thinking" to do about it ...but I feel some important in your words .

I will be honest, take some risks here. Had a little boo hoo yesterday and really felt sooo very lost . Why is this taking so long ? Why can I not feel better, do better, be better? Whats wrong with me ?  I really do wonder what others ( with the dark purple icons) have found that I cannot. I feel the lump in my throat right now . It hurts me that I am in this "stuck" for so long. My icon/book has been light purple for years ( not that I am stuck on colours, but I think you know my meaning) ...I am not remotely thinking "purple".   WTF? . I can still have days that divorce seems my best option and that I am one of those people that cannot recover from this betrayal. I just cannot... I have a resistance that I cannot explain.

the physiological reactions to PTSD are often beyond our control.

.

I can still utterly loose my mind in horror , reactivity and a deep sense of shock that this ever happened. I just spent a week in a hotel room with my husband and I struggled with new triggers, new thoughts, new questions, new "knowings".  At times, we came from the beach and he would watch TV . I bet , while in a hotel room with his OW..the TV never came on. Honestly , that thought entered my mind several times. It hurts still . Why does that happened... it a cruel way to be tormented involuntarily . When he does something as simple and normal as tuck his shirt in and do up his belt... it hurts me . I attach ( in my brain) his affair.  Boom...just like that , I feel adrenaline . It changes how I am...who I am and who he "thinks" I am. The lady sitting on the plane beside him ( likely a lovely lady with a teenage daughter ) was chatty and was at the same resort . Twice she came and asked him for "help".  ( she lost the key for her suitcase etc etc ) . My old life this would be so harmless and "nothing" ...but when I watched him walk away with her ...it was insanity in my brain. . I could go on ...its relentless. And thru all this ..I was "silent" because I want to be "happy", to not live in the past, to NOT regurgitate over and over and over .   If it all stacks up emotionally and mentally ( and I suffer physically...hot surges , sweating  ...trust me ) I can explode in rage and hatred ...bottomless. He has NO triggers apparently. INJUSTICE . And then I would ruin the entire vacation. I struggle . I am never going to be purple. Recently my therapist has talking about "pieces and parts and integration etc etc ". ...and more EMDR . It alls takes forever ..this journey of healing . All the while ( for me ) 5 adult daughters watching me . Who did I want to be for them ? How do I want them to see me ?  It creates endless shame and confusion for me . I will stop now...but thanks ( Marvin) for the subject and XY ( for the wisdom ).  I keep soldiering forward.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Roughly 5 years of therapy every other week for me. 80 minute drive each direction for a 50 minute appointment. My therapist charges $155 per hour. My insurance requires that I pay a $1250 per year deductible plus $30 per visit plus I spend about $20 per trip for gas.

I'm fortunate that my schedule and my finances have made it possible for me to do this. I've finally reached the point where I'm starting to feel like a whole person again. My wife hasn't had a single therapy session. I don't know what her status is but she still seems pretty lost.

[Treasur]

Such thoughtful and interesting responses and I agree with all of them to some extent.

I read someone describe 'detachment' as turning into more like 'attachment' to ones self. That sounds about right.

I agree with much of what Marvin said initially, including the belief that neither MLCer or LBS are left as the same people after this kind of life experience. It seems to be one of the 'tenets' of MLC that some others hold I think, the idea of a 'lost' person who might reappear as opposed to a fundamentally changed one. I happen not to believe that but I accept that others might. Perhaps it is a function of the scale of destruction for both MLCer and LBS? Idk.

But perhaps it isn't so black and white as it isn't for the LBS either?
Much as Barbie and xyzcf described, i found that PTSD threw all the pieces of me in the air and for a long time, even if I intellectually knew they were there, I couldn't grasp them either. I don't think I would have been able to do so without the right kind of trauma therapy. Which cost courage, money and time. And involved a bit of luck in finding the right therapist too tbh. I am grateful for it but it wasn't an easy or simple process. Recently I had problems with my drains here....tried to fix it myself, got an expert in who cleared my drains....chatted to a neighbour who called the water board and it turns out there was a blockage further down the road which they cleared (holiday renters putting diapers down the toilet apparently  ) For me, dealing with my own damage was a bit like that....plodded along trying to survive the best I could, finally got an expert so MY drains were clear, found out some bits of the problem that weren't about my drains or how I was living at all (with the help of a friend.) Tackling PTSD was just like that as a process 

None of which negates the wisdom of what Marvin describes as a direction to turn our head towards. I agree with that. I agree with dealing with the reality you see in front of you right now as opposed to hanging your hat on future unknowns.
But it isn't an easy path or even a 'one size fits all' path imho. Lots of bumps in the road, depending on individual circumstances. Everything from the energy taken by clinging boomerangs to hideous MLC divorces to limited financial and emotional resources spread achingly thin. And time perhaps. I think every poster on this thread is perhaps a few years out? (Sorry, Marvin, can't recall when your BD was but my sense is idk, two or three years ago at least?)

One of the biggest personal barriers for me was knowing that, in order to reclaim a new appropriate Me and to deal with the reality of things, I had to also let go of not just my old life but parts of the old Me. And i had lost so much and so many people that I just couldn't bear doing that too. I knew it was necessary; just couldn't do it. And I resented that i had to do it bc I liked her as she was pretty much. So, for a while, I was stuck in the waiting room between the old Me and the new Me. And I had no idea at all which bits would carry forward or if I would even like the new Me half as much. And as the pieces of me started dropping back into place, I wasn't always sure if they would stick or what to do with them. Still a work in progress here 

Just my experience, but it was a very different kind of experience from some kind of more positive 'go girl' process of 'reclaiming' who i used to be before I met my h. Very different. Much messier. Not very 'rah rah' at all, not much fun, quite a lot of loss and grief for that old Me too. And tremendously hard work tbh. But if I can do it, anyone can...also true lol.

So, again, without denying that what Marvin describes is imho the right direction to turn in.....my days, it was difficult and it took a staggeringly long time with lots of falling over and lots of confusion. Feels right and fair to encourage others to head that way but also accept that it is perhaps far from easy or quick sometimes for some LBS here.