[Acorn]

I can echo a lot of what Barbie said.

All my 3 counsellors understood perfectly what I meant by ‘midlife crisis,’ though they preferred to call it an ‘identity crisis’ and ‘existential crisis.’  They described it as a painful individuation process that could leave destruction in its wake.   

Like Barbie’s counsellor, my first counsellor (soon after BD) gently broke to me that the term ‘midlife crisis’ can be misused or over-used to ‘explain’ marriage troubles and breakups.     

That was hard to hear (I did not go back to her...) because I had my mind set on the MLC ‘diagnosis’ but her words prompted me to consider if I was holding onto the MLC explanation as a drowning person grasps at straws.   A lot of self examination followed. 

[Curiosity]

This is a really great discussion. My MLC wife is a mental health professional, though of course I wouldn’t raise the subject of MLC with her regardless. But during our marriage counseling, between initial bomb drop and her withdrawal, we discussed OW and the fog that my wife was in. I (probably unwisely) mentioned that I thought she was in limerence. Turned out she had been reading about limerence too. She didn’t explicitly say she agreed with me but she didn’t deny it either.

It is helpful to know that the concept of existential crisis or identity crisis is at least somewhat more accepted in the field. The idea of individuation was also something that came up in marriage counseling, and Acorn, the description of a painful individuation process doesn’t sound completely off base to me. It does seem like an oversimplification, though. I mean, “painful” really understates it and doesn’t take into account how much MLCers seem to deliberately blow up everything in their existing life in order to try to find happiness. The history of earlier-life trauma and (often) a tendency toward conflict avoidance makes a lot of sense.

[marvin4242]

What great comments and observations, thank you all.

I just want to add to the “differentiation” peace (which I believe it very accurate), my wife at one point of clarity said “I had to do all that to get away from you” and “do you know how much it took to separate myself? It was I needed a rocket to get going.”

I think these were her internal way of registering the force and destruction that was apparent externally in her “need” in her mind to get away from me.

[OffRoad]

Isn't an existential crisis (meaning of life/why am I here) and identity crisis (who am I/what do I believe in) two different things,  that might or might not be intertwined?

It seems like a person could have one or the other or both. To me, it almost sounds like an MLT is more like an existential "crisis". Or is it perhaps the level of confusion/concern/upset that elevates something to crisis level?

I was thinking back on the year my father was stationed in Iceland, and my mom didn't want to go and take us kids. She had her friends, family, no money worries, but she had what was termed a "nervous breakdown". Years later when my father passed, we were worried it might happen again, but she didn't even miss a beat. (Upset, yes, but not hysterical). It made me identify "responsibility" as a great stresser for some people (by the time my father passed, my mom's biggest responsibility was paying monthly bills). It is also motivational for others. Which led me to if responsibility is a stresser that someone has just buried the stress for years and not dealt with it, then the dichotomy of being "responsible" because you are supposed to be and not actually wanting to be responsible because it stresses them could cause an identity rift. Just "thinking" out loud.

[Treasur]

Isn't an existential crisis (meaning of life/why am I here) and identity crisis (who am I/what do I believe in) two different things,  that might or might not be intertwined?

My first reaction was, based on my own loss of self in PTSD, was that my experience was that they were much the same. I don't think I could untangle them at the time.

Taking a moment though, perhaps I'm wrong and they are different. If intertwined.

When I was most lost, I simply did not know if there was still a Me. I knew there had been one and intellectually I knew there was one....but I couldn't feel a Me at all and I found it almost impossible to imagine that there would be a Me again. Looking back, I think it is a very deep kind of disassociation. It felt existential in the sense of existing, of living even, of being something.....or for a while being nothing. And bc I couldn't feel a Me, I therefore had no idea why I was here, if my existence even mattered or what I should do with my existence if that makes sense. With hindsight, I couldn't start to move forward on the 'existential' bit until I felt a sense of Me again. Sorry if that sounds garbled; it's a bit difficult to describe but it absolutely did feel like a sort of step 1 and step 2 process......

What was different maybe in my case than in our spouses is my individuation - bc I do think that is a common theme in these MLC type crises we talk about on HS - is that my loss of Me did not feel that it had been subsumed by someone or something I had to escape from. Well, other than PTSD lol. Our spouses seem to believe, rightly or wrongly, that their relationship with us has eaten their Me like an old-fashioned Pac-man. Hence the blame perhaps and the anger.....perhaps the more violently they seem to need to destroy us is more a measure of how co-dependent they feel? A bit like Marvin described, I think my xh might have said something similar if he had been able/willing to talk to me. Idk. Of course that is why it seems so puzzling that they often seem to move on to really quite controlling relationships with ow/om that seem way more subsuming than our experience of the old relationship, like putting all their casino chips on one risky red number......perhaps they simply don't have the capacity to create a new Me without someone else to do it with. Like a parasite and a host lol. Again, idk, but it kind of makes sense to me in the context of my xh. And perhaps that is why those folks who stick with ow/om seem to get stuck for a long time bc I guess they would have to go through a process of breaking free all over again but this time with nothing visible on the other side.

Whereas it was really obvious to me, even at my most no Me, that grafting myself onto someone else or trying to be rescued was going to produce a Me who was not Me, that it just wasn't the way to go. But my word, finding a Me when you are that not Me is frightening and very slow hard work. Nice when you feel your Me again though 

[Curiosity]

Really brilliant discussion! Agree that existential crisis and identity crisis are probably separate (though very often intertwined) concepts and that MLC probably includes both. Really excellent observation, Treasur, about individuation and how the MLCer seems to feel that the marriage has subsumed their Me. That addresses how the MLCer and LBS are on parallel but separate journeys - we are each seeking our Me, but the MLCer feels like they have to break free of their spouse to find their Me, while often we would be happy to find our Me alongside our beloved partner.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I also believe that MLC is a loosely applied term for an "identity" crisis where hidden issues from the past erupt from a current issue. HB stated that the MLCer had to resolve these past issues in order to "complete" themselves and move forward.

As far as professionals dealing with MLCers. It has been stated that many, if they do see a counselor, lie or state there is nothing wrong with them. Most of the discussion around MLC is from statements made by the LBSer in regards to the MLCer. Most professionals do not enjoy or support making a diagnosis of someone based upon the observation of another person.

Also as stated before, the idea of the sports car, pursuit of younger mate, new career are all stereotypes that actually prevent professionals from embracing the term.

Good discussion and I look forward to reading more,

(((((Ready))))))

[Father5]

HI everyone,

Great discussion! I would like to share what my therapist said about it. She didn't believe in MLC and when I went on and on in the beggining about her being broken and didn't know what she was doing. She stopped me dead in my tracks and said she's not phycotic she's not having an episode. "What she did was undenyably cruel and way out of character but if she were sitting in my chair right now what would I say to her". I said I didn't know , she said "if she were sitting in my chair right now would I tell her to stay in a marriage she wasn't happy in". She went on to say that my wife knew exactly what she was doing and how much it would hurt and she (my wife) didn't care. It was a very bitter pill to swallow for me. I might still be choking that one down.

  The next few months in her office it seemed like I just wanted her to believe me about what I was witnessing and going through, I wanted validation. The worst part about them not understanding or acknowleding MLC was the fear that I was the crazy person. That I was  wrong! I  was just taking things the wrong way and didn't handle the breakup well. In some ways it made things worse.  When I finally told her all the dirty little details about what happened all she could say was how cruel it was. My therapist beleives I am just not handling it well and this site inparticular is bad for me. You guys are the only people that understand and I can't thank you enough.

[xyzcf]

My therapist beleives I am just not handling it well and this site inparticular is bad for me.

I am not sure I like your therapist.

Support groups are vital for people facing many types of crises. Hero's Spouse is exactly that, a support group of people who have had a similar experience and can learn from one another and get support from one another.

Many people, myself included, have been diagnosed with PTSD from this life changing trauma so of course "we are not handling it well".

Treatment for PTSD has allowed me to gain some peace and happiness in my life. Understanding and accepting that something drastic happened to my spouse of 32 years has aided in my healing.

I accept though, that I still am deeply damaged by this...as I would be had I been physically attacked or developed some devastating disease.

I am sorry that she is not listening to your understanding of what has happened. You knew you wife better than anyone else, and if like me, you are aware that something changed dramatically and without warning. Listen to your own inner voice Father.

As well, I don't see how HS can be "bad for you" as there is no pressure for you to continue to love your wife or not, stay married or not..indeed there is a great deal of advice about protecting yourself financially and how to take care of children and yourself so that you can be as healthy as possible.

[Curiosity]

F5, I stopped seeing my IC precisely because she seemed to be going in this direction. I might have used the term midlife crisis but mainly we just talked about the fact that my wife is not sure what she wants, she needs to explore some things on her own, but she knows that a lot of our marriage has been good and she doesn’t want to close the door on that. I mean, I can understand where the therapist is coming from - her focus is on the well-being her patient and I think all of us would agree that (even IF the reconciled marriage is stronger than ever before), the MLC period itself is not good for the well-being of LBS.

Still, I made it very clear that I recognized that my wife’s behavior toward me and our marriage would not be acceptable in the long term, but I firmly believe that she is working through some issues and that on the other side of those issues, I believe that the person she will be is likely to still be the person with whom I want to share this journey. So I was willing to acknowledge the bad behavior in the short (ish) term in order to keep the door open for longer term happiness. Ultimately, it seemed we were at an impasse so I ended the counseling. I still think I learned some valuable lessons about my own value in the relationship. While my counselor didn’t explicitly say she didn’t believe in MLC, that was the sense I got. But we in this community know, there are far too many commonalities among our spouses for it to be coincidence. Ultimately, all we can do is stay strong, take care of ourselves, and live according to our values.

Also, well said, xyzcf!