[Nas]

As for MLCers, sometimes I wonder how they can continue to live their lives as if nothing happened. I know it doesn't make any difference to my circumstances but sometimes I wish to know if he is truly happy with the decisions he made in his life.

I meant to touch on this last night. This is just my experience, but in my loneliest moments, I no longer think of my ex. It used to be that I would think about him and wonder these kind of questions when I was very lonely or struggling. It was attaching our circumstances together, like how can he be happy when I am struggling so much? I realized that that was my way of keeping us attached. As if his happiness/my struggle were opposite ends of the same thread. But as time has gone on and I have done so much healing work and also my own journey into nonattachment and other things, it occurred to me he has no power over my feelings. I used him as almost an object to focus on when my nervous system was keyed up. It gave me a false sense of control, an outlet for my anger, an object to focus my sadness on, a way to avoid going deeper and really touching the root of the pain and healing it.

My ex did a lot of deeply damaging things to me, emotionally, physically and circumstantially. But there are Many many days now where I don’t even think of him once, even when I am actually dealing with things that are a consequence of his actions. He’s no longer on the other end of the thread. When I do have those moments where I want to direct my anger or my loneliness or my utter despair at the struggle of life at him, I stop and ask myself what the deeper issue is. Because it’s always deeper than him. And if in that moment I am not feeling strong enough to go deeper, I’ll distract myself with something else for a while until I’m ready. But I at least allow myself the recognition that he is just the emotional stand in and I shouldn’t give him more power than that.

I recently posted an article on the links thread with the idea that emotions cause us to think in ways that will deepen them. I think that applies to so many places in life, will we focus on the thing that will make us continue to feel what we’re feeling. When I’m feeling like I don’t matter, I notice that I tend to focus on even the tiniest things that might suggest that I don’t matter. Loneliness sucks, and when we’re feeling lonely, thinking about an ex and how they’re no longer there just deepens the feeling of loneliness. Same thing with anger, when we’re feeling angry and we think about all the terrible things our ex did to us, it strengthens the anger. Just like with everything in life, we have to be intentional and make a conscious effort to redirect ourselves.

[Dragonfly33]

DF fwiw I had similar feelings and on rare occasions I can still feel that way and I am 7+ years out. It does vary with people but I believe it is absolutely normal to have these "moments." We who actually were emotionally present and had formed a bond with our spouses can't just simply "turn the ship around" as the metaphor goes. It takes time. But I will say where I am today and for the past few years my W just doesn't carry that kind of heavy weight and I no longer feel sad and alone as I used to in the first few years.

This sounds like what my coworker told who was also a divorced. She told me it took her 7 years from the time of divorce till she could say she was totally healed and had no more anger, sadness or any negative feelings towards her ex (who also cheated on her).

As for the MLCer my W can have moments where she looks like her old self, even happy. But I have semi regular contact with her, and we talk regularly and she is still stressed, unhappy and searching. I don't believe that their pain and damage just simply can go away.

Somehow it's good to have someone LBS like you who still have contact with their MLCer spouses to have a window of how the MLC spouses are doing years after BD. I don't know how to describe it but maybe somehow it gives me a validation that after all it's not greener on the other side. But I still hope one day, I will get to a point where I could say it doesn't matter to me how the MLCer is doing in life. Only then I could stay I have totally moved on I guess.

I realized that the only times I ever felt safe, I made myself feel that way, it was not from an external source, and a lot of my life was not safe, and that’s why feeling safe with another person is harder for me. I am willing to be extremely open but I need someone who is willing to let me sometimes (not always but especially for big moments) fumble through a lot of tangled confusion to get to the core of what I’m feeling.

I did feel safe with my x. At the time I knew that he would always take my side and protect me. However, the womanizing part I have always doubted me as he already sort of cheated on me at the beginning of our marriage. From the time I discovered the fakebook flirts with his former gf who also was the first run to for him after BD or even before BD, that trust was never 100% anymore. But still he gave me comfort during the marriage and that's why I struggle with being alone because I never had that kind of person within my own family. I was never afraid to talk to him about anything because I know he wouldn't judge me or disregard my feelings.

What changed for me is that I know that bad things do happen and could still happen but that doesn’t change the fact that I can be happy and I can be valued and if anything bad happens after that, it doesn’t negate my value or take away the happy moments that came before. It’s just that life unfolds and different things happen and whatever happens doesn’t wipe out what happened before. So if I have an experience and I’m happy in the moment, then whatever I was happy about has happened and nothing can take it away. I got to experience it. I will grieve its loss if it ends but I still had it and was happy during it. No matter what happens next, I had that happiness. So I really hope that I get to experience that. And I try (not always successfully) to avoid lamenting that I haven’t ever gotten to experience it.

I think it takes a lot of effort and working on ourselves to be able to do this. Changing your mindset, changing your thoughts, that's hard work. I will try to keep this in mind NAS. It does make sense, bad things always happen whether you've been happy or not. Maybe I was just focused so much on the bad things that happened to my life and forgot to look at the good things that came with it. I tend to do this when I feel lonely and down and defeated. And it feels like a domino effect and it's so hard to get out of it at least on the same day.

Somehow I didn't realize that we are on such a similar timeline; I think I'm just a few months ahead of you. I still have moments like that and had one today, in fact. I don't even know why today's happened. It's usually when I go on a trip to somewhere new or experience something new, because XW and I liked to explore. Although that's also true of the last serious girlfriend I had before I met XW, so I don't know why I don't think about the girlfriend as much as XW. I guess because gf and I had key differences that made marriage a no-go, and XW was finally someone I could see being with permanently. I do have friends I hang out with from time to time, but it's just not that same connection.

I have this trigger as well JB. Whenever I go to places whether it's a new place or a place I've been before with my x, I always feel sad and I always long for his presence because we both enjoyed travelling and even though most of the times it was exhausting but I still enjoyed those adventures with him. Not that I don't enjoy travelling with any other person or just even by myself but it's just different, if you know what I mean.

Reinventing, two years since final separation and I still cry but rarely when I am triggered. It still affects me a lot. Sometimes I don't know why I'm crying. I just feel empty at times or I just need that shoulder to lay my head on, that comfort, or those listening ears.

When someone was the person you normally went to, talked to, sought solace from and they aren't there anymore, it's sad. Sometimes there is no one else you can talk about some specific thing with. It leaves me feeling very empty and alone. I suppose a person who has found someone else that is their match would not have this issue, but I have yet to find anyone I trust. Or I have yet to trust myself. Couldn't say which, but it's hard to meet people when you work from home and can't get out much. Point being that you probably miss having SOME one that you can talk to or be with. It really would not have to be your x, but that is still your go to in your mind. Being sad when you feel alone is normal.

This is exactly how I feel when I have those moments. I miss having someone I can talk to and just be honest with without being judged or criticised. My ex was like that. I could tell him everything, my problems, my fears and he would assure me he whatever happens he would always be there for me (in hindsight, how ironic). But I guess I remember that feeling when he was always there for me before BD of course. I grieve for that person. I grieve that company. Grieving is indeed complex.

I could text my x now and tell him I need him. And I believe almost 100% that he would come straight away. But I need to protect myself, I know it wouldn't do me good either. So I feel like he's so near yet so far. I know he's still in that replay stage even though I barely have contact with him. I've learned so much from this experience, and I have become a more independent person but I wished all these things never happened. I wish I didn't lose him to MLC or whatever it was that took him away from me.

Is your question more do people ever stop thinking about their x? It depends on the person and situation. Or are you wondering how long before you stop missing your x? Or are you wondering if the empty space your x left can be filled in should you meet someone else at some time?

I guess my question is if you ever get to a point where what happened doesn't hurt you anymore. But like what everyone said here, it is very individual. I just would like to be in a place where thoughts about my ex don't affect me anymore. Like it would just come but it would not trigger so much emotion anymore. If you know what I mean.
What I realized thought after all these years since BD is that whatever my x did to me, I could not unlove him. How crazy is that. I tried to unlove him, hate him but the hatred is diminishing. However, that love is still there. Now, I only remember the good things we had. I have to work hard to remember the bad things. It's so weird to be in this place.

[Dragonfly33]

I meant to touch on this last night. This is just my experience, but in my loneliest moments, I no longer think of my ex. It used to be that I would think about him and wonder these kind of questions when I was very lonely or struggling. It was attaching our circumstances together, like how can he be happy when I am struggling so much? I realized that that was my way of keeping us attached. As if his happiness/my struggle were opposite ends of the same thread. But as time has gone on and I have done so much healing work and also my own journey into nonattachment and other things, it occurred to me he has no power over my feelings. I used him as almost an object to focus on when my nervous system was keyed up. It gave me a false sense of control, an outlet for my anger, an object to focus my sadness on, a way to avoid going deeper and really touching the root of the pain and healing it.

I am amazed about the work you've done for yourself NAS. This makes sense to me. I do try though to figure out where the sadness comes from and what do I really need. Is it really my ex? What triggers it? What has been triggered. And I know that everytime I feel like this, this is my 8 or 9 year old me when my mother left us. I felt abandone by the person I thought was my safety net. It's exactly the same panic attack I had when I was BDed by my xh. I tried to tell myself the other day like talking to my child self that I am in a safe place now, something that I learned from my therapy. It's so hard though to convince yourself. Like you said this is hard work, digging more deeply.

I recently posted an article on the links thread with the idea that emotions cause us to think in ways that will deepen them. I think that applies to so many places in life, will we focus on the thing that will make us continue to feel what we’re feeling. When I’m feeling like I don’t matter, I notice that I tend to focus on even the tiniest things that might suggest that I don’t matter. Loneliness sucks, and when we’re feeling lonely, thinking about an ex and how they’re no longer there just deepens the feeling of loneliness. Same thing with anger, when we’re feeling angry and we think about all the terrible things our ex did to us, it strengthens the anger. Just like with everything in life, we have to be intentional and make a conscious effort to redirect ourselves.

This is so true. I do tend to focus on things that didn't work everytime I feel sad and lonely. Even though there are also good things that are happening in my life at the moment. When I feel sad and lonely then all I could think of is just the bad things that happened to me. It's so hard to get out of it once I'm in that cycle. I would usually stay in bed the whole day and just do nothing but wallow in those sad thoughts. Perhaps this is a good reminder for me to recognize these feelings before being swallowed into it.

Thank you all for sharing your journey. I needed this to remind myself that i am not alone in this.

[Nas]

It's so hard to get out of it once I'm in that cycle. I would usually stay in bed the whole day and just do nothing but wallow in those sad thoughts. Perhaps this is a good reminder for me to recognize these feelings before being swallowed into it.

You're absolutely right, recognizing them is key. I often talk about how we can control a lot of things we think we have no control over, but Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANTs) are actually a kind of spontaneous thought that stems from core beliefs formed usually in very early childhood, and they do pop up - well, automatically - in response to triggers. The actual definition of them is "thoughts that are instantaneous, habitual, and nonconscious.” So it could be really easy to just believe they are 100% true and let them run the show. The first step is recognizing and acknowledging them instead of just accepting them as fact. "I'm unlovable," "I don't matter," "I don't have any value as a person" - these were unalterable truths for most of my life. It's not that I couldn't control them, it's just that I didn't recognize them so I couldn't challenge them.
Sometimes they run very, very deep, and, in my experience, often have truckloads of corroborating experiences to "back them up" and that can make them VERY hard to challenge. But that's part of the hard work of healing, right, not backing down from the challenge. I've found in healing I'm much more of an emotional risk taker than I thought myself to be - I don't run from these challenges, and I'm open to the possibility of being hurt if it means I also get to experience authentic, honest, real connections. I came across a really basic image on this ANTs topic that I think you would resonate with. I want to post on the links thread, but I need someone to help me post images.

[Dragonfly33]

Time for Update I guess.

Recently, I've been on a holiday in France. I decided to travel by car since I wanted to take my dog with me. At first I thought if just going there alone and then last minute I decided to take a friend with me which was not a good decision. To cut the long story short, I was so stressed with this friend that on the third day of my holiday, I was so distracted by her not being careful with food in the car that I forgot to close the trunk of my car as it was an automatic one. When I drove it hit the ceiling of the garage and the whole glass broke into pieces. I was in tears as I just bought this car ( althought it was used already) but still it looks brand new. I was so worried as I still had to travel back home and it was quite far. I was on an island. In my panic the first person that came to my mind was my xh. So I decided to call him and he answered the phone. He knows that if I call him then it must be something bad. Despite us being D whenever I have a problem like that and I ask my xh he is still willing to help me. He called the insurance and arranged for the road assistance. He was able to calm me down as I still had to drive back to our hotel for 3 hours in the dark with the back of the car fully exposed to wind and rain. I am very thankful that my ex arranged for everything especially the roadside assisstance as it was all in French and sometimes they can be very unfriendly. I can speak the language quite well but it my situation I was just so exhausted. It was a big help for me coming from my ex. Somehow I could feel that my xh was still there but also at the same time it's a different person.

As for him, he told me he's having a hip replacement due to problems with his hipbone from doing too much sport. Because he always helped me in times of trouble, I offered him some help like taking him to the hospital or bringing him back home from the hospital. My x told me he doesn't need help and he's able to manage it alone. He even told me that he didn't want his family to come visit him at the hospital. He said he prefers to suffer alone and doesn't want to bother other people. He thanked me though for offering him help. I don't know why he would refuse help not even from his own family. I just don't get it. Or maybe he has a new gf that would take care of him and just doesn't want his family to know about it. I think the sporty gf is now out of the picture. But I don't really know and I'd rather not know.  So despite this whole hip problem thing, he seemed to be still determined to continue doing this triathlon which is very detrimental to his health. But it's his life and I'm not part of that life anymore so I have no say. I just don't get it why people would continue to do the things they know would destroy their body.

Back to me, I was very relieved I was able to drive back home last night with the temporary plastic cover of the trunk of my car. What annoys me now is just the additional cost. If I had travel alone as what my sister advised me, none of these things would have happened. My whole vacation was just very stressful because of this friend of mine. I guess it's a lesson learned.

[OffRoad]

I'm sorry about your car. I know I also get out of sync when I'm stressed, so forget things.

As to your ex there are a lot of possibilities. Maybe he not actually having a replacement, but is just thinking he will need one because he has hip pain. Maybe he's afraid of looking weak. Maybe he's trying to look tough. Maybe, maybe, maybe.  You can't know and you are not likely to get a truthful answer. You are correct it's his life and you aren't really involved in it anymore so good for you and there you are.

I hope it doesn't cost too much to get the window repaired.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you offroad for your response. My car is covered by the insurance but I still have to pay 1000 ChF. Something That would still hurt me financially.

As for my xh he already told me months ago that he might have a hip replacement but he wanted to do alternative treatment to avoid it. The problem I guess he cannot run anymore. He wanted to be always active so the hip problem needs fixing. I don’t think he realized that he is getting older and his body cannot take such extreme stress from all these sports he’s been doing. I didn’t tell him that because I know he wouldn’t listen. He’s just the kind of person who always has to exaggerate everything. There’s never a middle ground. I remember when he taught me how to ski, the moment I started enjoying the easy slopes he brought me to the difficult ones which of course frustrated me because I would get stuck in the middle of the slope out of fear or fall on my face. This is just his personality and of course MLC reinforced it. I just hope he has a successful surgery.

It must be lonely to be alone. He doesn’t want his family to support him. I guess he doesn’t want to be pitied but at the same time he wants people to care for him otherwise he would not have told me about it.

[MadLuv]

My XH would tell me things also for I am sure the pity factor or at least to try and make it seem like things were not all great. He also does not share anything personal with his family. He has become very secretive of his entire life. I dont think they know fully where they are or where they are going and so they just dont want to have to give any answers. Another avoidant issue that many have. I dont know much anymore as I have been no contact for over a year on anything personal and complete NC for 8 months. It’s nice he helps you. Im sure it relieves some guilt and I bet he also thinks he has no right to ask you for anything in return.

[Dragonfly33]

Madluv, yeah it’s nice he still helps me in such situations. And I really appreciate it. What I noticed about my xh he mentioned a number of times that he prefers to suffer secretly. He said this again today, after the surgery when I texted him. His surgery was supposed to be tomorrow but they decided to do it today. I know my x likes to exaggerate everything for some reason. Could be to get sympathy or could be to spice up the story. He told me today that he lost more blood than what was initially discussed. And he said he fainted thrice while even lying down. I then checked how much blood one usually loses during surgery. What he lost is within the normal range. I read that apparently women who undergo cesarian even lose 1 liter of blood. Then I told this to him and he said well I’m not as tough as women. So I told him he’ll be ok. He told me he’s making a big scene when he fainted. Well apparently his blood pressure is so low because of the morphine they gave him that’s why he fainted. And now they can’t give him more of morphine because of that so he has pain. Now I am not sure if it’s very painful or he’s again just exaggerating it. I know he has very low pain tolerance. But anyway, I find it bizarre that he kept telling me he prefers to suffer in secret and yet tells me what he’s been going through. So it’s not a secret anymore lol.


While exchanging texts with my xh today, that old h that I knew of somehow was still there. The way he talked and cracked jokes.  I haven’t seen my x for almost 2 years now so I don’t know how he is like now. This November it will be 2 years since our D. And honestly, sometimes I feel like I wish I hadn’t contacted him when the accident happened  or I wish I just cut him totally out of my life. Part of me wants not to have anything to do with him anymore but when I am in trouble I know he’s the only one I can trust who could help me. Sometimes I wished I never met my xh at all. I wished I just took the job in the US and my life would have been different.

But I am in this situation now I cannot change what happened  so I just try to continue moving on even though sometimes it is very tough to be alone. I envy those who have loving husbands especially those I saw during my holiday.

[UrsaMajor]

Another possibility (regarding his BP) is that it is low due to the extreme sports. I ride my bike 18 km per day to work and back, do Aerobics usually twice a week, go to the gym for strength training weekly with my son (riding my bike 10 km each way to get there and back home) and whack a small ball around a squash court with my daughter once a week (can't really call it playing squash because we don't play by ANY of the correct rules - we just whack the ball around). I had my bi-annual check-up 2 weeks ago and (background - I am 61, 188cm tall and weigh 85-86 kgs) my doctor looked at me and said, "Well, THAT is a little low but it's because you are obviously active" (my Blood Pressure was 90/55 at rest with a resting pulse of 50) and told me that, as long as I wasn't falling over when I stood up, she wasn't concerned..... and was in fact a bit jealous of my blood values and BP "at my age" (Gee, THANKS Doc! Why don't you twist the knife a bit while you have it stuck in there.... )

But it is about as useful to speculate about your xH and "why" as it is to try to taste green with your elbow so .....