[keepfighting]

And some more useful advice from the same user:
Getting a Life…Changes in Life

I had some real trouble with this during my journey.   Being told to get a life wasn’t what I wanted to hear early in the game.  It felt like I didn’t have one…when in fact I did…and it was one I thought I enjoyed and desperately wanted back.  What I didn’t know was that while I did have one…one that I enjoyed…it was one that could be improved…if I was willing to change.

We humans HATE change…we fight against it, we rage against it…we try so hard to avoid it.  The reality is that “We don’t change when we see the light…we change when we feel the HEAT”.   So to me GAL=Making the Changes Necessary to Adjust to your NEW Life...and learning to Embrace the Change.

Getting a Life Early in this process …To Me…is more around finding some stability and boundaries after your world has been truly toppled.  Up seems down, left seems right.  We are told to do everything Opposite.  If you want them back…let them go, ignore them if you want them to communicate…etc.  Our minds race, our imagination goes into overdrive, you don’t sleep, you lose weight and you feel like you are walking on a tightrope and have no idea how you got there.  The things we tell newbies…detach, GAL…is correct and for their own good…but we have all been a newbie…and very few of us listened early on.  So Getting a Life at this point revolves more around trying to find your feet…avoiding major financial mistakes, and just learning how to slow this train down and breathe again.

For me at this point…I too was a special snowflake who could listen to SOME of the advice given…but didn’t need all of it.  I…by sheer force of will…was sure I could conquer this enemy and save my wife and marriage in record time.  LOL  .  I fixated, researched, worried, planned and schemed almost 24 hours a day for months…lost 40 pounds in the same period…I looked better but was far from healthier.  It wasn’t until I stopped the belief that my wife was different…that somehow this was a misunderstanding…that reality crept in.  I FELT the heat…My life HAD to change.

So how did I Get a Life then…It started with a few small decisions that led to some bigger ones.  The first was obviously acknowledging the reality of where I was and that nothing I did or said was changing that dynamic.  The second was looking at my kids and realizing that they too were floundering…and my own mess was making it worse for them.  So I made this more about them.  That helped me set some boundaries that I felt would give them the best chance for the least damage.  There was no way I could hide all from them…but I could soften the blows and try and get the outcome that I thought hurt them the least.  I had several boundaries focused on her being transparent and accessible (Great Idea in Theory…Tough to Police) and the big one around ridding herself of the OM’s and stopping contact with them.  I set these for myself…and for my kids.  I was not going to let her have the advantages of our home, my money, and their support if she was going off to LaLa Land with Wonderboy.  I couldn’t stop her from doing it…but there could be consequences to the action.  These boundaries were agreed to but immediately tested.  The first time brought an argument…the second brought the Heat.  She came home…kids were gone…suitcases were on the bed and she was told to pack and get out.  Lawyers were called and it was all in motion.  Luckily for me this time…that was more Heat than she was willing to take at that moment and it forced a change.  She dumped OM’s cut off contact and committed to staying married.  I thought I won…Bigger LOL  .

You ever notice when you stand in the shower…the temp doesn’t change, but we keep turning it up?  Why…because we get used to the heat.  MLC’rs and LBS are no different.  So the early heat and change that we both experienced quickly faded and morphed both of our journeys...hers into a Monster and mine into a whole new BB & Dad.

I’ll come back and add on to this, because the next phase of Changes and GAL were dramatically different which was followed by another whole new change.  But this is taking up way more words than I expected and it is becoming a book.   So I’ll add more later.

[keepfighting]

Part II

Once I had stopped living in Newbie Panic Mode…Getting a Life was more about adjusting to the life I was thrown into.  I learned to focus on my kids and their needs first.  I exercised a lot as it helped me clear my mind and sleep at night.  I started faking my way back to confidence and that led to improvement in that area.  I allowed myself to travel through the stages of grief and each level taught me more.  When I arrived at Anger…I liked it there because it fed me energy.  It built up my fake confidence.  I stopped furiously researching answers to her MLC and I stopped tracking and trying to define her every move and word.  I started to detach from her crisis and tried to stop my own.

During this time my wife bunkered herself into our room and didn’t leave it for months.  She turned into a very real and scary monster.  She was the exorcist movie except for the head spinning around…and trust me I was looking for it.  It was pretty easy to detach from that thing…it was pure evil.  The things she said to me & told me were so far beyond awful that I cannot even imagine them being in any sane persons mind, let alone my wife’s.

But as MLC/LBS land always does…it moves, morphs and throws us curve balls as soon as we get comfortable.  I liked the anger thing…and the little 5’ ball of hate in my bedroom made it easy as heck to be angry and stay angry.  Then one day the monster started to disappear…the hate had just burned her up.  Those scary eyes started to dissipate and she was human again.  Tougher to be angry at that.  She lost her hate filled energy and just found her way out of the room.  We were all pretty surprised to come home one night and she had made dinner.  There she was, showered, hair combed, dressed like Mom with dinner and dessert.  She didn’t eat with us…she ran back to her room.  But it was her first effort.  Then came time spent with kids, house cleaning, pet care, etc.  All of a sudden she was trying to find normalcy.  She was progressing.  Slowly, and not towards me other than no longer being a monster whenever she opened her mouth.  But there was progress, and it killed my anger.  It brought something so much more dangerous.  Hope & Expectations that were not earned…only imagined.

So as she got better…so did I.  My GAL was now focused on my future and my continued fake confidence.  I continued to exercise.  Bought some new cloths.  Started to feel better about how I looked.  But my eyes had drifted back onto her because the children were becoming less and less “In Danger” of hearing her say something, seeing her do something etc.  She was getting back to being Mom.  So in my mind…I was Just Around the Corner.  We connected on a family level…and started to do a few things as a family.  Those were great for the kids…as they finally saw her smile for the first time in well over a year.  She was giving them energy and it was giving her some energy the same way it did for me earlier in the process.  We co-existed in our home, but barely spoke when it was just the two of us.  We lived in separate parts of the home and were about as married as me and the snow drift outside were.  But in my mind…it was getting so close.

As the months passed my wife planned a vacation with the kids…even offered to pay for it with her “Run Away Stash”.  So we spent 2 weeks travelling, laughing and having a great time together as a family.  I was sure that we would get back together…that she would want to share the bedroom again, hold hands like we always did, tell me she loved me…something.  NOTHING for me.  To the kids she was Mom again…I totally recognized her again and loved her again as that person.  But to me she was dead…when the kids were in bed she would literally turn into a dead eyed zombie with no soul.  So every day for two weeks I would see the woman I loved and missed…and every night I would be reminded that she was not all there.    It took a lot out of me and by the end of the trip I was pretty miserable and selfishly focusing on what I wasn’t getting, how unfair this all was, and that it was time to push.  I had done my time and I was “Due” something here.  Bigger LOL Again  .

So after we were home…it continued more of the same type of interactions.  Family worked…we didn’t.  We tried taking a trip just her and I to go to a concert for a weekend and it was a nightmare.  I’m thinking romantic rendezvous and she is thinking “I like that band”.  The trip there she was literally in a panic the whole way…I think she was petrified of being alone with me.  We had NOTHING to talk about even though we had mountains of things that needed to be talked about.  It was the definition of awkward.  We went to the concert and she cried through most of it.  Back in the hotel that night we were intimate for the first time in years…it was soulless and awful.  The trip home was just silence.  So we backed up into family first mode for the kids and she and I spent little time together again.  She again continued to improve with the kids and everyday life…so I again being far to Wife Focused saw and built hope up that had no basis in the facts I had been living.  My GAL was not focused on me, my kids, my healing, my growth…it was focused on her.  I was fitter than I had been in years (Trying to impress her), I was doing more things inside & outside the home…not just focused on work (Trying to show her I had changed).  I was trying to manipulate life and gain control of something I could never control.  But since I spoke the mantras…since I knew all the things I should be doing…I was sure that what I was doing was still within the realm of getting a life.

So what do you do when you took a long trip together that failed miserably because of your own selfishness, impatience and unrealistic expectations?  Simple…you double down and go to the west coast for 3 weeks of course!  I’ll save the time & space of recounting it.  Different coast…same result.  Disappointment and embarrassment.  But coming home changed everything.  It was time for the heat to get turned up to high and change my life forever.
     
When we got home she admitted that she had sent her fantasy Wonderboy gifts from the trip.  This BD may have been worse than the first.  I foolishly asked if she still loved him and she told me “Of Course…I will Always Love Him” and I literally felt what was left of my heart break.  As she told me that she intended to stay married for the sake of the children because she loved them too much to hurt them and still loved me like a brother…I felt ME Break.  She wanted me to know how it was going to be from now on and that we had to make the best of it for the kids.  I cannot remember what I said…all I can remember was that I had never felt so empty and alone in all of my life.  All the progress, all the hopes and expectations…were lies.  My GAL at that point was as dead as I felt.  I had no GAL.  I wanted No Life.  All I wanted was to not hurt that bad anymore.  It was my only focus.

I have written about my bottoming out…and how I am still here only by the Grace of God and my daughter.  The heat was really on now.  Change HAD to come if I was to survive.  So now…after years of faking it, saying the words and skirting the real issues…it was time to look in the mirror.  I had to take control of what I could control.  Getting a Life now was about really looking at myself, my life, my hopes and my fears.  My kids were always my first focus…but now it also had to look inward.  My wife focus died.  I truly didn’t care for her or about her anymore.  I felt sorry for her…that was all.  She was outside of my control…and thus became a “No” priority to me.  I focused on what I could control…and that was it.

My mirror showed me my flaws and weaknesses.  Showed me my broken self-esteem, my fixer compulsion and why they tied together.    GAL started meaning that I filled those gaps in my world by acts of service for others…without expectation of thanks or praise.  It meant that I started to focus on the good in my life and lose focus on what I didn’t have.  I embraced the small and inconsequential moments with my kids.  Simpler things meant more now.  I lived my life with just two categories…Things I Can Control & Things I Cannot.  I worried about Column A and let God worry about Column B.  My faith deepened and I found God there waiting for me.  “Hey BB…long time no see”.  Most of all I found myself…my new self in this period.  Confidence and Peace were no longer faked but lived and lived well.  I embraced the peace and it changed my life.

During this same time my wife was finding herself.  Her heat came from seeing me broken…and again when she saw me rebuild.  She saw the changes in me and said that it made a difference for her when she realized she no longer had to carry around this man that she had broken.  She said seeing light in my eyes again gave her hope.  She had her own trip through Hell…and I will never envy her road for one second.  But she got there.

As we both emerged from the ashes Our GAL was about just trying to see if our lives could still fit together.  She was changed and different…and so was I.  Could we even like each other…let alone love each other.  So we slowly (VERY SLOWLY) built a new friendship, a new relationship and a new life together.  We both walked through the heat of Hell…we just had to take our trips alone and meet on the other side.

Getting a Life to me means…Living YOUR Life.  It doesn’t mean joining a gym, going on trips and dating because your spouse is lost in the fog.  It means that your life is forever changed…and it doesn’t matter that you didn’t want it to.  To me it is about putting your focus on the right things and moving forward…because it is the only way out.  So if gyms and vacations help find the new you in there…good for you and go for it.  Embrace this time…not because it is fun…because it is inevitable.  So the question is what will you do with it.  Will you spend it in a funk, will you spend it in denial, or will you spend it building yourself, your family and your world into something you will enjoy in the end.  It took me years to really embrace Getting a Life…but I thank God every day that I did.

[Biscuit]

KF,

I've never read these posts before by BB and they are excellent, thanks for reposting!

B x

[keepfighting]

I haven't updated my thread in a while and I apologise for it. Things not have been too great lately over here.

In one of my previous posts I mentioned we had a terrible Saturday afternoon a week ago. We were on a day-out with the kids, my eldest son had a tennis tournament that we attended, followed up by us driving up to London to see an exhibition. On the way there, W brought up the topic of she wants us to visit her sister in Germany for Christmas. She did bring this up a couple of times before, initially they were going to come and visit us, but plans changed and they cannot come because of work.

This is a tough decision for me, given the situation we are in. W and the 2 boys want to go, D and me not really. It turns out W told her sister about our situation and that she is seeing OM. I did not know this for sure, but was a shock to me. This is something that starts to really concern me lately, she does tell about our situation to more and more people and I am guessing it's not the true story they hear from her, but her twisted version.

I reached out to two of her best friends a couple of weeks back. One of them is with me 100% (we know each other for about 20y) and we regularly talk. The other friend is not so close to me, but W and her are or were up to recently. Initially she took my W side, she said W said about how unhappy she is, etc. Then I started painting the real picture. I could feel on her voice that she does not really want to believe what I am saying, but I pushed on and asked her that any advice she gives, be it from the PoV that my W is sick.

We talked a week later and I expressed my concern over my W health/situation. She started to believe what I was saying as she experienced some of the things I was talking about, apparently W got into an argument with her friend and said some ugly things, so her friend distanced herself. Said at some point I am with you 70% and only 30% with W.

Anyway back to my last week. We had that ugly fight in the car, I got to meet Monster, spewing, etc. I did not take it personally and tried not to engage in any fight. The week passed, we are actively trying to avoid each other in the house as much as possible. It's hard, mostly because of the kids. Trying to take them out of the house and be away as much as possible in the afternoons. Both my boys play tennis, so we try to keep active.

Come Saturday, my youngest had a tennis tournament. Suprisingly, W does want to come along to all of these activities, even though I do no invite her. My strategy here is if the boys want their mother to come along or she offers to come along, whilst I wish she would not come, I don't object. Anyway, we arrive at the tournament, W sits down, I move further along a couple of benches over. Couple of minutes later, she comes over and asks why do I not sit next to her, I said I am fine where I am thank you. She comes over a couple of minutes and asks the same question. I am like I don't fancy sitting next to you whilst you are texting other people. She's like I am talking with your mom and my mom. Finally I give in and sit next to her, I don't want the boys to see we are pulling apart although they know already.

The tournament ends, we arrive back home, W is nervous, upset, grumpy. We have lunch together, the situation is tense, I try to keep to the tradition that we eat together as a family at least over the weekend. After lunch, W goes into monster again and attacks me. She brings up the subject that she cannot support the fact that she does not have her own income/spending money anymore. I stopped paying for her own expenses a little while back. Any other costs she incurrs I cover. Things get out of control, she charges me and jumps on me, started kicking and screaming. I stay calm, take the punches, I think I even laughed at some point. I do not fight back at all, trying to leave the room, she gets in my way.

I was desperate to get out of the situation as all this happened in front of the children   which I hate. They should not see any of this. Manage to get out and retired to my own room upstairs, but she is not giving up, she runs after me, I try to stay calm and leave the room, but she steps in my way. Somehow we get into a discussion about the situation, I explain to her that she still has a lot of the 'benefits' I provided so far, despite her situation and that she practically denied me as her husband. At some point I say to her, this is what you wanted, so it's time you bear the consequences. If you don't need me as your husband you need to accept the situation. You wanted all this sh!t, not me, stop seeing me as the man who needs to provide for you anymore, things are over between us. Accept the situation that YOU created/wanted, I never wanted us to be in this place.

She backs down immediately, monster is over, and leaves the room. We exchange a couple of messages, there is some blame from her, I replied that I am sorry you see things this way, etc. The communication stops. The boys and me engage in some activities, have fun and had a few laughs also, whilst listening to some Christmas carols.  W comes in the room, calm and sits down next to us. No shouting, no spewing. She brings up the subject of visiting her sister again, I don't commit but don't reject the idea either. I know the kids want to go, so it's likely we will go, I just wanted to avoid having to act out as the happy family when we are obviously not one. W comes next to me and tries to hug me. Then she and D go out walking the dog.

What a tough day it was. We had a bit of arguing about who should take the living room for the evening, I go back to MBR and let her take the LR. Sunday we had another tournament, communication between us is minimal, she asks why am I avoiding her. I said I don't want to talk to you, have nothing to say at the minute and move farther away. She engages with other parents, laughing, talking, etc.

We return home, I fix us some food and we enjoy a meal together. W takes to dog out for a walk, than she prepares the lunch box for the kids for next day. Half an hour later, she comes into the living room, hugs the kids. The boys don't understand what's happening, she's like (in a high pitched voice): I am off and laughs. This hit me if I am honest, I don't show it, I get not even a bye from her.

I was shocked as she did not spend any night away last week, it was a mini bomb. Think I handled it well, asked or said nothing, I felt really sorry for the kids. They don't deserve to go through this. Although, they are still young, S10, S8 I am sure they are affected by all of this. I've certainly seen much more attachment from them, all three of them come for hugs more often since this he!! on earth began.

Up until last week I used to get a kiss on my forehead every morning before W left to the gym, that seemed to have stopped now, so one more item for the 'negative' list.

I pray to God that he gives me strength and does the work with her, let things be HIS way. This is not easy to do, but I am trying hard.

[keepfighting]

The tornado is in full swing.

I was reading through Standing Strong's thread this morning and got to a point in his story when W was considering D and moving out. Was reading the story thinking how SS must have felt in that moment in time.

W comes home from the gym, I go downstairs after some time and say you know people usually greet you when you come home and say bye when they leave as she did none of it today.

She says something, don't remember exactly what, then walks up to me and says with a weird smile on her face: "it is highly possible I am moving out" BOMB DROP!

I wasn't sure what to say as she did not mention this previously. I've not lost it, remained calm and said well that's news. So she goes on to say one of her friends from the gym is looking for someone to help her out around the house, but she needs someone who moves there.

Moved away, trying to think about how to reply back. Ended up saying, no matter what YOU decide, make sure it is in the best interest of our children, pointing out that I did not agree with the way she left yesterday afternoon just saying good bye to the kids and out of the house under a minute.

Got the non-sense, the kids are all right, they will understand if I move out it's in everyone's interest, bla bla bla. I said no, this is not a right thing to do. She should not involve the children in anything that's going on between us. I asked her not to tear the family apart but rushing decisions.

My head was spinning, she went on about saying how unhappy she is with me, that she really hates me, wants me out of her life and just wants to run. I know I know, MLC script. Tried to pull myself together, remain as calm as I could and just acknowledge some of the things she said, saying I'm sorry you feel this way. Her reply was that I'm trying to manipulate her saying all this stuff.

Then somehow we got into the discussion of I should find someone else that I could be happy with, as she is sure I will not want to live with her and she surely does not want to live we me anymore. My reply was that I KNOW I don't need anyone else, I KNOW I would not be happy with anyone else, she's like I don't believe you, you say this now, but will change your mind later on. I stick to my guns and said I don't need anyone else in my life, then she points the question to me: what do you want then? What do you expect me to do? I replied I don't have any expectations from you at the minute, than I backtracked saying actually there is one thing I would like: that you find your internal peace. Her reply was I already found it, referencing the OMs, I said I'm not talking about OMs, I said I wish you found your internal peace. I'm fine, the only thing that bother me is that you don't give me money... was her reply.

Then the discussion died and we both went on our way.

So this is where we are, I wish we never had such discussions, need to go and talk to God about this see if HE responds to me.


 

[FrenchHusband]

Hi keepfighting,

looks to me you are managing well your situation. Not easy to live with at-home-MLCer right, and especially when the rollercoaster is going up and down in such a crazy speed !

You are wise to set up boundaries that fit you with the finance topic, maybe there is a boundary that could help you and your children regarding monstering in presence of the children ? Leaving the room was the wise room in my opinion, and it looks to me you stay calm. Well done, I am happy for you !

Regarding the travel in Germany, if I were in your shoes I'd go. Have good moments together in family is a blessing IMO, especially during this crisis. In December last year, few days before BD, I travelled together with W and the children in her country. I was not aware at this time, OM was already in the picture and W was a cold Monster main time she spent with me. Nevertheless, I had a great holiday and that was also very good for the children. I did not find W, but I found me, in hindsight this travel was a big help to prepare for the hard times post BD. On another perspective, I am glad I recreated links with W's family. I call them or send them texts and pictures from time to time since BD, then I am able to maintain the link between W's family and our children.
I think it is important to keep good relations with W's family, for my mental inner peace I prefer not to be considered by them as devil's second cousin.

[UrsaMajor]

W comes home from the gym, I go downstairs after some time and say you know people usually greet you when you come home and say bye when they leave as she did none of it today.

While I can understand why you said that to her, it is a bit passive-aggressive and, quite frankly, she couldn't care less what you think about it so why waste the energy/time....

As far as moving away from her at tournaments, giving her clear information would likely be more helpful to you (she will ignore it anyway) but, maybe as an example, "I do not wish to sit near you when you are engaged with your phone." (Basically what you said

am like I don't fancy sitting next to you whilst you are texting other people. She's like I am talking with your mom and my mom. Finally I give in and sit next to her,

so that was good) There is no accusation or mention of OM here. You can verify if she was talking to your mom or sister easily if you choose to...

Then somehow we got into the discussion of I should find someone else that I could be happy with, as she is sure I will not want to live with her and she surely does not want to live we me anymore. My reply was that I KNOW I don't need anyone else, I KNOW I would not be happy with anyone else, she's like I don't believe you, you say this now, but will change your mind later on. I stick to my guns and said I don't need anyone else in my life, then she points the question to me: what do you want then? What do you expect me to do? I replied I don't have any expectations from you at the minute, than I backtracked saying actually there is one thing I would like: that you find your internal peace. Her reply was I already found it, referencing the OMs, I said I'm not talking about OMs, I said I wish you found your internal peace. I'm fine, the only thing that bother me is that you don't give me money... was her reply.

So, other than her reading from Page 142 of the"How to have a Midlife Crisis for Dummies"script, the short version of the discussion from her side is "I am fine as long as you continue to pay for anything I choose to do."



Newsflash : Choices come with consequences.

[Treasur]

I suspect the only way to meet your wish of not having those kind of discussions is not to engage in them, to shut them down as soon as they start to unfurl  So in this one, after your w announced her ‘it is highly possible I am moving out’ statement (and isn’t it funny how wedded these folks are to indirect word salad - can you see that yet? - rather than communicating directly and clearly? Bc, ‘it is highly possible’ is not the same as ‘I have decided to move out next Thursday and here are my ideas for how we might best manage the kids/money/legal/practical stuff’. ), your best response was probably some version of ok, let me know when you have more details, then walk away. Bc everything else was imho just more of the same, like a broken record, that didn’t really gain you anything. There’s a lot of power in not getting sucked in to someone else’s drama imho.

Your wife seems to be reading consistently from the MLC chapter titled ‘You’re Not The Boss Of Me (but I’m entitled to demand that you jump when I say Because…..)  it’s a popular chapter I think lol. The only way to address it is with whatever sane version of No works for you. And practice makes better at it. Don’t poke. Don’t be a passive-aggressive a$$hat. Don’t be petty. Just calmly choose what is best for you. Your wife probably won’t like it much (see MLC chapter title lol) but it is how sane adult interactions work in RL. And you may wish to start exposing yourself to less of these situations from here on….reduce travelling together, reduce collective family outings, stop paying attention to or commenting on whether she is texting OM or the Pope or Santa etc. Bc that is the reality of how separated Co parenting works, isn’t it?

You are probably feeling BD-ed all over again, but there is a very good chance that your life will actually feel easier and more peaceful if she does move out. Keep reminding yourself that the real options on your table right now are not your past marriage, but between a live in MLC teenager and a live out one. And in most cases, the latter is easier and calmer. Having said that ‘it’s highly possible’ is not the same as actually doing it, so I wouldn’t hold your breath either way. Unless you have reached the point where you are happy to help her pack tomorrow  Does sound though, if she does go through with it, that your kids will be an occasional accessory for her so you might want to think about how to adapt if you are the primary parent and even take a bit of legal guidance if necessary about that.

On the Germany thing….i disagree with FH. She is talking about a family trip in one breath and moving out with the next….do you see how f’ed up that is? And who would be paying for this fun trip to see members of her family? And would it not run the risk of being a bit of a powder keg that exposes your kids to seeing the kind of conflict you have posted about here? What would you gain from it? (And if a bit of your brain pops up saying either that you’re afraid of her reaction or that you are hoping to nice her back, give that bit of you a hug and then kindly squeeze it back in its metaphorical box  Bc I think you can see from anecdotes here that there seems not to be much evidence that either works)

So, it’s a good opportunity to start teaching yourself to practice the reality of what you are trying to ‘preach’….to let the natural and predictable consequences of her current choices unfold, to start living as if you are at best separated parents living in different places, to do detached before you feel detached which is what most of us find ourselves having to do. You don’t want to go….so say so plainly and without justification or explanation, don’t go and make other plans. If you feel comfortable enough doing so, legally and practically, let her take your kids just like divorced parents do as part of standard agreements all over the world….if not, she gets them next Christmas. Plan a different kind of a Christmas with your kids alone before or after the trip if it happens around whatever the schedule you agree is. And I’d suggest you think, then inform her of your preference rather than ask or try to discuss. Bc this is what comes along when one parent decides to end a marriage….there is no more collective family time, but two separated family units with an agreed schedule. And bc trying to negotiate sensibly with MLcers is almost always an exhausting waste of time.

Your brain probably feels like the Germany trip is a super big deal you have to get right bc BD’d brains work that way. It really isn’t. Nobody’s world, including your kids, will end if they don’t go or do; it’s just a trip and another change from the old way of doing things. But Christmas can bring eggshells for the best of us and kids are not immune to eggshells even if they don’t understand where they are coming from….which is why imho a decent parent takes age appropriate decisions on themselves and accepts that kids may not understand, agree or like them.

Imho the announcement conversation was a useful poke from the universe to encourage you to think practically about your boundaries and changes to the normal MO with a wife who has announced she is hoping to move out and leave you and the kids behind. Take your time to muse as honestly as you can what those appropriate changes might need to look like for you, what is best for you and your kids. Then act accordingly. Let your wife do her….you do your best you in the circs.

[keepfighting]

Thanks for your replies, as always good advice out there. I cannot say I agree with all the advice but that's just me I have to adapt it to my situation, but anyway keep it coming.

One thing that does not help in our situation and further adds to the tension and I think her twisting in this mess is that W is having difficutly finding a decent job. She hates that she still depends on my financial support and she is not shying away bringing this up. Said to her numerous times, for me it is not about the money and she will have my limited support as long as we are married, that is my duty as a husband irrespective of what she does. At least that's how I feel now. Of course as with many things, she sees this a control.

The moving out was probably a bait so that she has something to stick in my face. Whilst this opportunity her friend offered her would take up her time, the location is not that far away to warrant a move out/in, which I pointed out to her.

I will not bring this topic up unless she does.

I am leaning towards going on the trip TBH, the more I think about it. Knowing my wife a change in scenery usually helps her depression. If I put my pride to side and look at this from my kids perspective, they don't deserve a spoiled Xmas just because of this whole mess. If we stay home, we'll have a very dull xmas.

One day at a time... as so many here said. If nothing else, MLC sure sharpens your ability to adapt to a continuoulsy changing circumstances, curve balls, that's hard for a person like me who likes to have situations under control.

[xyzcf]

Your wife reminds me of when I was a teenager. I turned 18, took out my pack of cigarettes, bought a bottle of gin and put both on the kitchen table and told my parents that because I was now 18 I would do whatever I want. I also had a strong desire and intent to leave home which surprisingly was not longer there 3 years after I finished college.

Our feelings, our emotions, our love for our spouse and our children...it's not like a tap that is running and we can easily turn it to off. We see that they are so "different" than the person they were before their crisis and we wish to protect our children...and we are not sure what they will say or what will happen next. So we are in a constant state of readiness.

With holding her spending money is probably making her very angry. The idea of moving out to help a friend to help out around her house is pretty wild to me, what about her two children?? There is no "sense " in what she is doing...but she may feel "trapped" and absolutely wants to find a way to dull the pain.....and this means she has to leave you...because you are the person responsible for her unhappiness....and she sees the only way as leaving behind both you and all responsibilities...very very common for a person in crisis.

As always, you can follow your intuition regarding Christmas and the trip to Germany. Whatever you decide is done not to punish her...but what you think is in your own best interest and for the kids.

It became more and more clear to me how important this family is to me. I just attended a workshop this weekend and that was reemphasized to me. I have made this family of three, the reason for how I live my life. We do spend holidays together with our daughter, we do go away with her on vacation.

For many years, he was out of her life and I am glad that this has changed and he has returned to being pretty "emotional" about her...

All of this is "messy" and I know that I have never been able to compartmentalize and say "well if he does this than I shall do that"....no....I have bended yes, to accommodate what is best for my family. That has been what I feel is right.

Once, when I was a college student and attending some kind of humanities "think group" I was advised to do something that went against the person I am, a  professor thought I should "experiment" with a different response towards a relative....it went against my beliefs but I did as he suggested...and to this day I regret it...years later, I went against who xyzcf is...and it wasn''t a big deal..just a small "experiment" that lingers on so many years later..and it hurt someone.

From a faith based perspective, there are also values that are embedded in me that affect how I respond to others.....

She is in a bad place....her actions, the ups and downs, the lifestyle she is choosing...you cannot affect that.

Consider what is "safe" for you and your children. You are showing that you can stand up to her and will not contribute to her "fun" but your actions are going to be seen by your children and quite possibly your love for family, as I have for mine, will weigh against how you make decisions ...from the several bad choices, which one is the the least problematic.