[marvin4242]

Following xyzcf’s lead I am responding here

She will probably never be who she was I accept that but I want her to eventually get through what she is going through and come back. She loved me for 25 year and I know that love is still there.

Again no guarantee I know. I can't give up on her yet.

Thanks for clearly stating that. So how can you see yourself doing this while you are not frozen, nor tied to her whirlwind, nor depending on her words or actions to be ok in the mean time?

[Treasur]

Hope can be a tricky thing for a lot of LBS; you may want to Google the Stockdale Paradox. The gist of it is that hope can be a thing that sustains us and, if we hang our hope hat too much on specific fixed outcomes, and then those do not happen the way we wish, it can also be a thing that drains us.

It takes most of us a little while to find a balance that works for us, to hope in a way that sustains us rather than drains us.

From what you say, it sounds as if it costs you nothing much to allow your wife to use your work insurance to cover the therapy costs if she chooses to do so. Seems entirely reasonable to me that you would want to facilitate that open door for her, if only as the mother of your children let alone as someone you have shared your life with for so long. Very normal that you feel how you feel. Of course, you can’t make her go through that door or even do the work needed on the other side of the door.

Good potential example perhaps of how adjusting one’s hope might work….hope that she does, and that it is helpful to her, wish her well but try to unhook from any expectation that she will, judgement about what it means if she doesn’t  or hopes for what it might mean for your marriage. Bc those things are unknowns and many of them outwith your control, aren’t they? Investing too much of your hope in those kinds of things can create a bit of a crash and burn cycle….a sort of conditional hope if that makes sense…which ironically can beat the hope stuffing out of us if it goes on for too long.

Most of us learned with time and a few wallops to do hope a little differently than pre BD. Or to hope for different kinds of things perhaps. A sunny day. Time with other people who love you. That this time too shall pass. That you will not always feel how you feel today. That there is a good life in the other side of this s$itshow even if you can’t see it yet. A sense of peace again. There are plenty of things one can choose to hope for, or have faith in, even if the details are a bit fuzzy or they seem really small in the midst of chaos. Sometimes good enough is good enough to get us through that day, that week, that month. Very personal kind of unpicking, I think, not at all a one size fits all.

And finding hope things that are not hostage to anyone else’s emotions or choices, hopes that can be realised in more than one way perhaps. Which is why Marvin’s questions might be really useful 

[Atari25]

Thanks for clearly stating that. So how can you see yourself doing this while you are not frozen, nor tied to her whirlwind, nor depending on her words or actions to be ok in the mean time?

I have my kids, my neighbors and my family and I am keeping busy and enjoy their company. Is that not enough? I don't know I am asking?

Hope can be a tricky thing for a lot of LBS; you may want to Google the Stockdale Paradox. The gist of it is that hope can be a thing that sustains us and, if we hang our hope hat too much on specific fixed outcomes, and then those do not happen the way we wish, it can also be a thing that drains us.

It takes most of us a little while to find a balance that works for us, to hope in a way that sustains us rather than drains us.

From what you say, it sounds as if it costs you nothing much to allow your wife to use your work insurance to cover the therapy costs if she chooses to do so. Seems entirely reasonable to me that you would want to facilitate that open door for her, if only as the mother of your children let alone as someone you have shared your life with for so long. Very normal that you feel how you feel. Of course, you can’t make her go through that door or even do the work needed on the other side of the door.

Good potential example perhaps of how adjusting one’s hope might work….hope that she does, and that it is helpful to her, wish her well but try to unhook from any expectation that she will, judgement about what it means if she doesn’t  or hopes for what it might mean for your marriage. Bc those things are unknowns and many of them outwith your control, aren’t they? Investing too much of your hope in those kinds of things can create a bit of a crash and burn cycle….a sort of conditional hope if that makes sense…which ironically can beat the hope stuffing out of us if it goes on for too long.

Most of us learned with time and a few wallops to do hope a little differently than pre BD. Or to hope for different kinds of things perhaps. A sunny day. Time with other people who love you. That this time too shall pass. That you will not always feel how you feel today. That there is a good life in the other side of this s$itshow even if you can’t see it yet. A sense of peace again. There are plenty of things one can choose to hope for, or have faith in, even if the details are a bit fuzzy or they seem really small in the midst of chaos. Sometimes good enough is good enough to get us through that day, that week, that month. Very personal kind of unpicking, I think, not at all a one size fits all.

And finding hope things that are not hostage to anyone else’s emotions or choices, hopes that can be realised in more than one way perhaps. Which is why Marvin’s questions might be really useful 

I understand what you are saying. Hope is probably trickier than I think it is, but I can't let go of hope yet. I am doing my best to live life but the house is full of my wife's memories, clothes and things she didn't take. Do I remove all those things and pack it in after 3 months? I don't feel like I can yet.

I am not investing much time in "hope" or a plan. I am going to therapy and I do a lot of reading here and elsewhere though. It's therapeutic for sure. For her own sake my wife needs to deal with her daemons and with some encouragement from the kids I think she may.

You gave me some thing to think about though, appreciate it.

[Atari25]

Good morning Atari. I moved a couple of your posts  onto your own thread to respond to.

There is not any diagnostic criteria to determine if someone is having a crisis or not. There are varying degrees of the intensity of the crisis and no way of knowing how "severe" our spouse's will be. There are similarities in the history and the literature supports the behaviours and actions that we term MLC.

There is also our own gut feeling that something is wrong. I think we could also agree that this is not about you and not about your marriage.

Love has so many definitions and it's not as cut and dried that if they left us, then they must not love us or that we must try to "detach".  I think detach means different things to people as well. My own example is that I would consider myself detached, but I prefer to use the word accept that he is no longer the person I knew for 35 years. I loved the person he was, this one, not so much.

Many here try so hard to detach, some are upset because they do not feel that they are detached enough, or have not detached fast enough..or that they must work harder to detach. What does it mean to each of us, this word detachment?

In my own story, I think the trauma that happened to me when his crisis struck and all the "stuff" following has left me with some very deep wounds and deep feelings about our marriage and family.  I continue to experience the effects of this trauma, even though I have done the "work". And the effects are no where near as acute as in the early years.

Although the stories here do not indicate that therapy has helped the MLCer, as I said at the beginning, no one really knows if this is a correct "diagnosis" or not. If your wife is willing to go, a therapist might help her to uncover her past, and deal with her own trauma. And that would be good for her and probably her relationship with her kids and you.

Therapy may not help I agree. It seems like time and therapy are the only ways people get through a MLC and I was advised I have nothing to lose by trying to get my wife to go. There is childhood trauma she has never dealt with, I realize getting her to deal with it will not be easy, I do not know how severe the trauma is .

Personally I have not been left with deep wounds. Some of the words she used hurt a lot but I see my wife very clearly as someone who is not well. My confidence in that view has only gotten stronger as time has past. 

This is resonating with me...trying to put into words what I am feeling when I read that statement, because I do understand it.....he gave up on me, he gave up on us and our family. This rejection and abandonment isn't something that we can easily cope with. People use different methods to decrease the pain caused by the rejection and abandonment, no one way is "correct" if it fits our beliefs and values......

Heartsblessing used to say that "if there is love, there is hope" yet we know that we cannot love them back, nor love them into being healed.....

I do wish to offer you some encouragement, because often people will suggest things that they believe to be true that are not true for your story.

I don't believe that "hope" is a bad thing. You build your own life, you don't interfere in her journey. This is the hard part as throughout our marriages, we always helped one another to get to that next place...and we have to learn that this is not our role anymore.

The different ideas that are expressed here are helpful to us. I am thinking, we have deep feelings and understanding of crisis and our spouses...and sometimes it is hard to see another's point of view. We continue to explore and change our own minds and hearts, it's our journey as well.

I appreciate your post thank you. I truly appreciate everyone's views.

I do plan to continue to build a new life with hope.  I still live feeling a great sense of loss and emptiness. I assume time will make it easier, it has already.

I truly believe there is still love but someone told me you can not live in fear and love at the same time, that resonated with me. I think my wife is living in fear, I can see it in her eyes and she ran from it.

[dogwalker]

Hi Atari25
Im not here very often now but can relate to your situation. My story "help do I have a MLCER?" may give you hope for the future and if nothing else help pass a few evenings.  My journey started back in 2015 and like you we had been married for 25 years. Today she is home and we have been together for 3 years now(nevery did get a purple sticker on my story :-) ). Life is good and full hence I'm seldom here now. The things I learnt were patience and build your own life waiting is good if its for you but don't just wait use the time to live, learn and build yourself into a better person.
Take very good care of yourself and the very best of luck to you on your new journey. Its a cr&p one but aim to get something good from it. Its took me 8 years so don't beat yourself up if you dont get it first time or second or a third..
Cheers DW

[UrsaMajor]

Today she is home and we have been together for 3 years now(never did get a purple sticker on my story :-) ). Life is good and full hence I'm seldom here now. <...snip...>
Cheers DW

You didn't get a purple icon because your last update was in February.... of 2022!

Come back, start a new thread, fill us in, and I'll make sure you have a purple Icon.....

[dogwalker]

No offence ever intended my friend. Totally down to me
But yes I will do that update.
DW

[Atari25]

Hi Atari25
Im not here very often now but can relate to your situation. My story "help do I have a MLCER?" may give you hope for the future and if nothing else help pass a few evenings.  My journey started back in 2015 and like you we had been married for 25 years. Today she is home and we have been together for 3 years now(nevery did get a purple sticker on my story :-) ). Life is good and full hence I'm seldom here now. The things I learnt were patience and build your own life waiting is good if its for you but don't just wait use the time to live, learn and build yourself into a better person.
Take very good care of yourself and the very best of luck to you on your new journey. Its a cr&p one but aim to get something good from it. Its took me 8 years so don't beat yourself up if you dont get it first time or second or a third..
Cheers DW

Thank you so much for the encouragement @dogwalker. I truly appreciate it.

If you ever have time I would love to hear your story and how it all went. It's hard to imagine waiting 8 years if I understood you correctly but I'm always happy to hear about success stories.

[Atari25]

Insurance has still not paid out for my wife's car but our rental coverage ended so she leased a new car Thursday. She bought a much more expensive car that she frankly can't afford but I said nothing.  I still don't understand what caused her chest pains and eventual fainting behind the wheel which caused the accident. Everything is weird and a mystery with her these days. 

Easter came and went and my son brought up the point that "it was the first holiday last year that mom decided not to participate in". He is right. She did nothing for Easter, she used to always decorate and buy the candy and Easter lilies etc.  I quickly went out and got some candy for the kids and organized an Easter dinner last year to cover but the kids saw that I did it all. I had no idea at the time why she did nothing - had no idea what was to come!

It's been 3 months now since my wife walked out the door. Kids are older (19/23) but it's still pretty depressing that their mother is just gone. We didn't hear from her all weekend. No idea what she is doing or where she is. I found out she asked our son randomly to go to Florida for Easter weekend to play golf a couple of weeks ago, he said no thanks on his own. Also bizarre. It's always a family weekend to see grandmother, aunt and cousins so it's not like he would want to be away from everyone.

So hard to understand how she is ok living alone in an apartment in another city while we all go on as a family. I found it really tuff this holiday weekend.  I can't imagine how messed up she must be to continue to live away from us. 

[STP]

So hard to understand how she is ok living alone in an apartment in another city while we all go on as a family. I found it really tuff this holiday weekend.  I can't imagine how messed up she must be to continue to live away from us. 

Hi,
There's a very good chance of another man in her life. It would be her most guarded secret. Her mind is in the fog clouding her judgement. Shes in anguish and pleasure seeking. She doesn't know what she wants, just what she doesn't want ... which is you and the old life. Its not even her choice. She's been taken over  by the MLC and there's nothing you can really do to help her through it but keep to the 180. Time and space is your friend. Best to find your happiness without her and behave like a family of three. It is a very long and slow process and you can and will drive yourself crazy. I went through all this 14 years ago. Saved my marriage for another 6 years and she ultimately ended it and married the other man. I'll be divorced 8 years in 2024 and couldn't be happier. My life's a literal party now.

There's a ton of great advice on this board. Keep reading and journaling. and remember you are in charge of your happiness.