[Flummoxed]

Oh 100%, Atari25- it’s the day to day that firetrucking gets you. I spent yesterday pumping myself up- I wrote up this whole breakdown in my thread about it all making sense and how I’m ready to trust the process. This morning, I woke up with an awful feeling of dread and that sinking feeling remembering this is actually my reality right now. It’ll come and go in waves until we’re further from the deeps and closer to the shore. Chat with your daughter, listen to music that’s higher energy, and do at least one thing to make your day a little better no matter how small.

I can only imagine how tough the WebEx meetings have been thus far. You’ve got this! The only suggestion from me would be to try to detach the best you can and keep your poker face up during your call. Don’t let the MLCer see your hurt; don’t give them the satisfaction. As you work toward acceptance, it will get easier, but for now it truly is as UM shares- it’s not personal, it’s business. She is not who she was. Her true self is in there (at least, that’s what I believe), but she’s not the one in charge right now.

[Baxter1]

A-

It is so very tough to see someone you loved and cherished for all those years turn into someone else. It’s blows my mind sometimes, I agree with Flum, they are still in there. So sorry you are going through this

[Atari25]

It is so very tough to see someone you loved and cherished for all those years turn into someone else. It’s blows my mind sometimes, I agree with Flum, they are still in there. So sorry you are going through this

Oh 100%, Atari25- it’s the day to day that fire trucking gets you. I spent yesterday pumping myself up- I wrote up this whole breakdown in my thread about it all making sense and how I’m ready to trust the process. This morning, I woke up with an awful feeling of dread and that sinking feeling remembering this is actually my reality right now. It’ll come and go in waves until we’re further from the deeps and closer to the shore. Chat with your daughter, listen to music that’s higher energy, and do at least one thing to make your day a little better no matter how small.

I can only imagine how tough the WebEx meetings have been thus far. You’ve got this! The only suggestion from me would be to try to detach the best you can and keep your poker face up during your call. Don’t let the MLCer see your hurt; don’t give them the satisfaction. As you work toward acceptance, it will get easier, but for now it truly is as UM shares- it’s not personal, it’s business. She is not who she was. Her true self is in there (at least, that’s what I believe), but she’s not the one in charge right now.

I know she is in there @Baxter, she is just wearing a mask.

Thank you for the encouragement @Flummoxed. It's definitely all cold business now. Did you go through this also? I often wake up with sinking feelings. It can ruin my day.

Another appointment with the mediator this week. I am absolutely dreading it.

[Flummoxed]

Not quite there yet, Atari25, but dreading the day and working up my strength and courage for if/when it’s time. I hear you, friend- I’ve all too recently been down the negativity vortex myself.

One day at a time, one minute at a time. We can only control our actions, our beliefs, and responses. Recently, I’ve learned again that our fear of the unknown is often greater than the upcoming event. Try to remember back to what you do know: you’ve made it through the past sessions and you will make it through this one. That she is still in there, just deep deep down. That you are just fine going into this and you will be just fine once you’re out. Sure, it may pack a huge emotional wallop and crazy may come from all directions, but you will unpack it all and process it and come out of it just fine.

[Treasur]

These are hard, painful times, we know, Atari. Most of us here have stumbled through them - it’s often true I think that LBS find themselves dealing with the process of separation or divorce when we are still emotionally quite fragile. All I can say is that this stage of your life, and the process, is finite. It will feel as if it will never end, but it will. And there is a life worth having on the other side of it even if it is immeasurably different from the life you thought you’d be living.

I don’t know if the persona of your wife is ‘still in there’; I don’t even know if that was/is true about my own former spouse. Time will tell. Yet the broken things are still broken, aren’t they? Imho a lot of this is about the normal process of grief.

What I do know though is that, in this process, you are not dealing with that person but an unrecognisably different version. And this version is her way of dealing with the situation she finds herself in - still not about you, or your kids, or your old life even. I suspect the more you can deal with the reality of the new version who just happens to wear your wife’s face, the less gut-wrenching it will feel for you.

Try to accept that you cannot scratch whatever her itch is, that you should not expect fairness or kindness from her, that you cannot please or appease her., that there is unlikely to be much quid pro quo unless the law enforces it. That she does not care about the things you care about in the way you care about them right now. Bc that just seems to be how these folks roll. One can have scrapingly low expectations and still be open to being pleasantly surprised if people behave better. That it really isn’t about you regardless of what she says or how you feel.

Tbh small tricks can help….turning the video function off for these kind of Webex things, putting time limits on them, delegating the interactions you can to your lawyer whenever you can, keeping something out of sight but in your eyeline which is nothing to do with your marriage but you find consoling or encouraging. Going for a walk before or after, or a run, or something else nice that stops you getting lost in the overthinking or all those tough emotions. Small things.

We are all deeply sorry that this is where you are, but we are virtually sitting with you bc we know how very hard it is. This time too shall pass xxxx

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I guess I am late to the party, but there is always an opportunity to chime in. I am going to offer some suggestions and possibly a new mindset to help you navigate this new part of your journey.

I know she is in there @Baxter, she is just wearing a mask.

I am not sure about this. In fact I think the person that was married to you had the mask torn off and what you really see is an unhappy person that needs to resolve the issues that were deep inside her years before you met her.

In fact, you even alluded to these issues.

Counseling about 10 years ago helped a little with some issues at the time but I always felt there were unresolved issues from her childhood. I don't know exactly what they are but seemed to involve her father.

My ex had the same issues from her childhood as well. To this day, I don't know if she has ever received the counseling she needs. I do know that she still has flights of fancy, but that the reality of her situation- maintaining a job, sustaining a household, and helping with my youngest daughter have all helped ground her to some extent. She is friendly to me, but I am very guarded as I don't trust her at all. In your situation, she is projecting her angst and depression on you as it is easier to blame you then it is to confront the demons of her past.

So things have settled down though wife is still drinking, partying and is in full blown MLC.

Let's look at this. Your wife lost her business and then became a flight attendant. Now, some flight crews are professional and others enjoy the freedom to the fullest. I knew a flight attendant and she was aware of crews that slept with nobody and crews that slept with everybody. And more than likely, your wife has worked on several crews. That just doesn't help your situation. Alcohol and depression go hand in hand. I am not an expert, but alcohol can be just as distracting from a relationship than having an alienator.

It's brutal. It's heartbreaking to see it. Have other's here experienced this emotionless behavior? U have tears in my eye and she doesn't seem to care about anything. Unbelievable.

She does care and the fact that she wants to get this over quickly may help both of you in the long run. Nothing like a long, drawn out, and expensive divorce to ruin any feelings you may have for her now and far into the future. Just keep it for what it is-business. If she walks away content with what she has, and you are not taken to the cleaners, good for the both of you.

Yet the broken things are still broken, aren’t they?

This is the part you need to focus on and the only person that can "fix her- is herself. This isn't about rewiring or new programming will result in "return of the old wife". Instead, something new may come out and that person may or may not be to your liking. That will be your choice. In the end, she may stay lost and sustain herself through her new lifestyle of drinking and hanging out with others who are great associates but will never truly be friends or loved ones.

This is why we urge you to live your life as if she is not coming back. This is the hardest part for the LBSer, the loss of control. We really want to add new batteries or find a great DIY video to just fix things. If it was that simple, we would have already made the manual and RCR would be on a long speaking tour.  The acceptance comes when we realize that we don't have control and instead focus on what we can somewhat control.

Be strong and do not let fear determine your actions. You are not going to win any brownie points with her by playing nice guy during the mediation. Be strategic, but do it for yourself-not her.

Keep posting and focus on making a few moments of bliss for yourself today!

(((Ready)))

[Atari25]

I am not sure about this. In fact I think the person that was married to you had the mask torn off and what you really see is an unhappy person that needs to resolve the issues that were deep inside her years before you met her. In fact, you even alluded to these issues.

You may be right. I never really thought of it this way but looking back it does make some sense. There was certainly an element of unhappiness in her the last 5-10 years.

I will definitely give this idea more thought. Thank you.

Try to accept that you cannot scratch whatever her itch is, that you should not expect fairness or kindness from her, that you cannot please or appease her., that there is unlikely to be much quid pro quo unless the law enforces it. That she does not care about the things you care about in the way you care about them right now. Bc that just seems to be how these folks roll. One can have scrapingly low expectations and still be open to being pleasantly surprised if people behave better. That it really isn’t about you regardless of what she says or how you feel.

We are all deeply sorry that this is where you are, but we are virtually sitting with you bc we know how very hard it is. This time too shall pass xxxx

One day at a time, one minute at a time. We can only control our actions, our beliefs, and responses. Recently, I’ve learned again that our fear of the unknown is often greater than the upcoming event. Try to remember back to what you do know: you’ve made it through the past sessions and you will make it through this one. That she is still in there, just deep deep down. That you are just fine going into this and you will be just fine once you’re out. Sure, it may pack a huge emotional wallop and crazy may come from all directions, but you will unpack it all and process it and come out of it just fine.

This is why we urge you to live your life as if she is not coming back. This is the hardest part for the LBSer, the loss of control. We really want to add new batteries or find a great DIY video to just fix things. If it was that simple, we would have already made the manual and RCR would be on a long speaking tour.  The acceptance comes when we realize that we don't have control and instead focus on what we can somewhat control.

I am trying my best. 25 years is hard to let go of. I feel like I have accepted that I have no control but the process is painful.

Another mediation call today. I will spend the day dreading it but it has to happen. One day at a time...

[Treasur]

I don’t know how many calls are scheduled or why or what about, but a gentle reminder that it’s ok to put a limit on it…to say I’ll do this much and no more after double-checking with your lawyer of course. I don’t know if you feel these mediation calls are constructive or progressing on the key issues? But it’s not uncommon here to find that these MLC folks, much as they claim to want their escape, can also strangely be a bit of a blockage to progress. Hard to mediate with anyone without some level of give and take, and MLCers tend to be poor at that. And imho it’s ok to say you gave mediation a good college try but step back from it if it’s not productive. Not perfect bc everyone loses something in a divorce, don’t they, but some concrete outcomes?

Do you think progress is being made?
How many more sessions are scheduled?
And what happens next if mediation does not produce an agreement that both of you can live with?

[Atari25]

I don’t know how many calls are scheduled or why or what about, but a gentle reminder that it’s ok to put a limit on it…to say I’ll do this much and no more after double-checking with your lawyer of course. I don’t know if you feel these mediation calls are constructive or progressing on the key issues? But it’s not uncommon here to find that these MLC folks, much as they claim to want their escape, can also strangely be a bit of a blockage to progress. Hard to mediate with anyone without some level of give and take, and MLCers tend to be poor at that. And imho it’s ok to say you gave mediation a good college try but step back from it if it’s not productive. Not perfect bc everyone loses something in a divorce, don’t they, but some concrete outcomes?

Do you think progress is being made?
How many more sessions are scheduled?
And what happens next if mediation does not produce an agreement that both of you can live with?

Hi @Treasur. My wife has said multiple times she does not want to fight, she just wants 1/2 of the house and support payments. Early stages - we shall see.

We agreed to use 1 mediator to hammer out an agreement between us. Will that work? I hope so. I am going to text her next week and she what she is thinking. It's definitely grueling, upsetting and uncomfortable but if all goes well maybe 2 or 3 more meetings. They are on Webex BTW, not in-person.

She wants a quick escape, no doubt about that. At this point anything fair is a go from me. I think my friends and family and therapist are right. I need to start letting her go..

[Treasur]

Ok, I see, so some end in sight. I presume you have taken legal advice on what is fair and legally expected where you live wrt to spousal and child support etc, and bigger financial stuff like house, debts and pensions et al. And normal reasonable boundaries on timescales and conditions for any ongoing support as opposed to one-off clean break things? Plus I hope your half of the 25k she took from the house credit line.

Tbh I would pause a beat before texting her. Why? Bc it is probably wiser to keep the mediation talk to the mediation place, or legal talk to the lawyers if mediation doesn’t work out.  And I’m not sure what it would add…if she agrees with what’s on the table, or doesn’t, she is quite capable of saying so in the next Webex chat, right? What more/else do you think any text exchange gives you? And tbh, had she proven so far to be a woman whose word can be trusted….perhaps not?

Fwiw, it’s a not uncommon LBS thing to come up with reasons to contact them and we can fool ourselves a bit about that at your stage (puts hand up here lol). Everything from sick cats to plumbing problems to mail that turns up for them….. There’s a bit of our brain that feels almost a compulsive need to scratch an emotional itch, I think, even if we don’t know it….its a weird kind of denial/bargaining/ hope thing, I think. And we humans can be darned creative in rationalising our own reactions ha ha!

So the impulse is LBS normal lol…but i think you’d be wise to just do nothing, leave the ball in her court and see what she says in the next Webex. Take a breath. Use the old rule of 3 we talk about here. Do nothing until/unless you can be very clear-eyed about your objective. And when in doubt, do nothing much. Let things take place in the right place for them, and find other ways to scratch or process whatever the underpinning ‘itch’ is perhaps?

This stuff is painful and wearing though, isn’t it? It felt a bit like watching someone die to me; it was awful. If this is how it feels to you, all the more important that you dig deep in self-care and a bit of living that has nothing to do with all this stuff. How are you doing with that?