[FaithWalker]

Good to read an update HL

[Happylight]

Updating and reflecting now--sitting at around 2 years since I became aware something was wrong--how wrong, I didn't know, but wrong.  A year ago, at Thanksgiving, was our last BIG blow up. 

I have discontinued logging when he is at the house versus when he is gone, but he does seem to be spending more nights at home.  Sometimes it seems like he leaves because he knows he said he didn't want to be at home.  He's still living in our RV, nothing more permanent.  He seems very low energy.  At the onset of this whole thing, he was high energy --going and going moving more and more into the motorcycle club and lifestyle, which I think led to some other things as well. Now, his motorcycle has been in the garage for the last 6 weeks or so.  I haven't asked him about any club events or activities in a while, and he hasn't mentioned anything.  He has trouble sleeping at times, but also sleeps for long periods of time--like 9 hours and then taking a nap.  When he's away, in my mind he's always out living it up, but has made several comments about how he has watched a horse racing or monster truck shows all day long.  This last week he was only gone for two nights.  About 6 weeks ago was the last time I questioned our situation, and during this conversation, he was not angry like he had been in the past.  He seemed tired and depressed, but said he didn't want us, that he didn't have to tell me where he was going, that what he did in the past for our relationship was never enough----and then proceeded to stay for a solid week, which just didn't seem to line up.  I feel like we might be dealing with depression/withdrawal.  Many say that replay is the hardest, but during the time that I identified as replay, he would be very angry with me, but also draw towards me very strongly and with lots of emotion.  Lately, he just doesn't seem to have much emotion at all....like he doesn't have the energy for it.

I am usually going and going getting all the stuff done around the house and for the kids.  I think he feels guilty for not doing as much, and honestly it seems like he just doesn't have it in him.  We were also discussing the kids and he said he had broken their trust by not showing up for certain events. Ironically, this is something that I had always harped on being important. In general he doesn't say or share much at all, but I do pay a lot of attention to details and behavior.  As well as being low energy, his memory seems AWFUL.  He constantly asked me for information about things that he has asked about before (schedules with kids, my schedule, holidays, sports, etc). He can't seem to make connections between things. 

I feel like I am called to continue to stand by my vows.  It is hard and at times I still feel sad and overwhelmed.  I am continuing to learn to play piano and to keep up with my walking and workouts.  At times I still feel angry that I am having to do most of the heavy lifting for parenting, but that is out of my control, and nothing that can be done about it, but to do it as best as possible.  I hope one day he will break his silence and I will get a better glimpse of what is going on. 

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much for sharing this update, Happylight! Brilliant work keeping up with absolutely everything in the midst of this confusion. Sending love and positivity- you’re doing an amazing job! 💗

[Happylight]

So an just an update.  I continue to struggle with frustration at the slow progress and trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
 Thanksgiving came and went smoothly. He stayed for several days in a row. 

He stays, he seems content, we don't fight, he talks about things like replacing the fence at the house and other projects that have to be done.  We watch TV shows together.    If you walked through our house, you would never know that he has "moved out."  He leaves clothes on his side of the bed.  His closet is full.  His dresser has stuff on it.  His office has all his stuff, his bike is in the garage.  He actually doesn't use another address.  So basically, he has the RV that he goes and stays at a few nights a week.  Insurance enrollment just happened and he asked me for input on any changes and didn't make any moves to separate me. 

He had my daughter wrap gifts, and she said Mom--all the gifts are for you.  He brought me some supplements to help with shoulder pain.  When I'm not home, he asks where I am.  However, he doesn't like to tell me anything that is going on with him.  Often, I think its just because he wants to be in control and not because it is something that is nefarious.    Usually when he away, he still stays in contact--sends me texts and responds to things that I send or ask. Many times I have decided I won't reach out to him first (trying to go a little dim) and he always will bridge the gap.

Changes that occur to women in their late 40's have been hitting me hard this last six months.  I struggle with not sleeping well, and therefore fatigue.  I am having trouble with working out because of injuries--this is after doing fairly similar workouts for the entire year previous to that without any issues other than normal soreness.  It's hard to be in this situation when I want to feel and look my best and I'm struggling to workout and feel like my body is falling apart.  I am taking many different vitamins and supplements, try to eat good whole food, drink water, limit alcohol, exercise, and get sleep...so I feel like I am doing my part. 

While I am intent on my stand, I do still struggle with making decisions based on what I think he is going to do or say.  For example, I was asked to attend a conference for work in April.  This whole thing blew up when I came back from a work conference two years ago, so I think I have some association between the two.  I am trying to move past that, but I haven't yet told him of my plans to attend.  It has always been the case that he could leave without worrying about anything, but I have to make sure that everything is taken care of if I have to go somewhere.  Part of me wonders if he will also associate the trip with what happened before--I suspect that when I was gone before was when he crossed the line with OW.

From all my reading and processing, I know that while I may have been able to make different choices in the past, I also know that his choices were his alone.  They were choices--although he has tried to blame them on me.  However, I still feel somewhat stuck in limbo.  I wonder if he does feel like I am an obligation, but nothing more. 

I do believe see evidence of stages--his behavior has changed through this.  I've read that he will come through this or he won't.  I've been in the dark for almost this entire thing (although I am extremely observant of behavior and habits).  DOES WHAT I DO MATTER? 

[Reinventing]

DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?

Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.

What you do does affect you. So it does matter a great deal. Make your health and wellbeing the center of your attention.

[Treasur]

This ^^^^

It sounds as if some bit of you is waiting for something. Do you know what that is?

Meanwhile, the tough reality is that you have some kind of semi-detached husband in name only living in an RV. Fwiw, I would plan things like your conference excluding any need for him or expectations of him at all. If you feel you struggle bc some of your choices are contingent on what you think he might say or do, imho the easiest way to deal with that is some blend of removing him from your decision-making/planning and being as clear-eyed as you can be about the reality of what you see in front of you right here and right now without speculating about what might come next. Bc that is a known….the future, not so much….and you can change your approach when/if your h brings something different to the table.

What would you do if he didn’t exist, if you were actually a completely solo woman? Lots of us out here lol, and we find work-arounds for things that used to need a spouse or another responsible adult. We do things differently, stop doing some things, ask for help from other humans or buy the practical support we need. Imho, do that….find a new approach that does not depend on anything he does or says, or doesn’t.

Reinventing is quite right. You may still be believing that what you do or don’t do has more influence on his behaviour than it actually does right now, based on the evidence. Which is LBS normal lol.; imho the LBS reality is a bit more like the ‘horse to water’ principle, you can choose to keep a door open to something better, but you really can’t make someone else want it open or walk through it in a way which is acceptable and good for you.

But what you do with you and your life DOES matter and you DO have influence over that.

And if he doesn’t like that much - and he may not as he probably finds the current semi-detached comfortable enough to keep doing it - just remind yourself that you are simply and honestly dealing with some of the practical effects of a spouse who chose to change the nature of your marriage and family as it was and chooses to live separately someplace else.

[xyzcf]

I do believe see evidence of stages--his behavior has changed through this.  I've read that he will come through this or he won't.  I've been in the dark for almost this entire thing (although I am extremely observant of behavior and habits).  DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?

When we have the type of contact you do, we are able to see changes, it's not linear, sometimes they will revert back to an earlier stage. The hard part is not thinking that somehow they are making "progress" because there is no way to predict what will be when they exit the crisis. And progress doesn't mean they will come home.

I used to  be fearful that I might do something that would push him further away, that would affirm to him that he was right in leaving me but I totally agree with Reinventing

Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.

My own assumption, not based on any factual data, is that there are some things that "might" impact what kind of relationship you will have in the future. Your own growth and detachment for a start. Acceptance of his crisis and being "kind" might allow a better relationship in the future. Understanding of his crisis, allows you to let him be, give him the space he needs.

Being "kind" isn't the right word perhaps but what that looked like for me is responding to his texts, offering support when he had surgeries, including him in our family times and accepting when he wanted to have dinner or drop in for tea. There are no demands made and no expectations, but there is unconditional love. Over the years, I realize that he trusts me and I am a safe place for him. He is not my "friend" but he remains an important part of my life.

But a very small part...I continue to find my own path, knowing that I am alone to face the realities of getting older.

I always have followed my inner voice, it can be very strong at times and it doesn't steer me wrong.

I also receive gifts, thoughtful and frequent from him..it was and continues to be his love language I think.

As for the changes you are experiencing in your late 40's...it's frustrating isn't it? To have always been physically fit and active. I am turning 70 in a few days and I just am not as strong as I once was physically and I hurt. I continue to build strength with weights and yoga and have lots of PT to deal with some particular issues. Yoga is particularly helpful to me and always has been.

I think that science is now rethinking the role of hormone replacement therapy for women, so you might want to investigate that.

It is confusing to have a husband who is like yours...my son in law, who never knew his father in law before his crisis, will watch us together in the kitchen and remark "mom, I just don 't understand. You are cooking and laughing and teasing one another, your favorite tunes are playing, you are enjoying a glass of wine...I just don't understand".

Welcome to the club.

Your worries about attending the conference are normal. It's a trigger for you. The trauma that we have experienced by their crisis makes us alert and on guard, overly cautious, hypervigilant....face those feelings, perhaps journal them and expressing them here or to a close freind can also help to get the fear out that something you might do will make things worse. It won't.

[Happylight]

DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?

Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.

What you do does affect you. So it does matter a great deal. Make your health and wellbeing the center of your attention.

Thank you for this reminder.  I have tried to make sure I frame my actions like this, but I constantly have to remind myself...even two years later.   I don't know if this is because of the constant back and forth--its hard to keep your sea legs when the boat constantly has people jumping on. and off. 

[Happylight]

This ^^^^

It sounds as if some bit of you is waiting for something. Do you know what that is?

Meanwhile, the tough reality is that you have some kind of semi-detached husband in name only living in an RV. Fwiw, I would plan things like your conference excluding any need for him or expectations of him at all. If you feel you struggle bc some of your choices are contingent on what you think he might say or do, imho the easiest way to deal with that is some blend of removing him from your decision-making/planning and being as clear-eyed as you can be about the reality of what you see in front of you right here and right now without speculating about what might come next. Bc that is a known….the future, not so much….and you can change your approach when/if your h brings something different to the table.

What would you do if he didn’t exist, if you were actually a completely solo woman? Lots of us out here lol, and we find work-arounds for things that used to need a spouse or another responsible adult. We do things differently, stop doing some things, ask for help from other humans or buy the practical support we need. Imho, do that….find a new approach that does not depend on anything he does or says, or doesn’t.

Reinventing is quite right. You may still be believing that what you do or don’t do has more influence on his behaviour than it actually does right now, based on the evidence. Which is LBS normal lol.; imho the LBS reality is a bit more like the ‘horse to water’ principle, you can choose to keep a door open to something better, but you really can’t make someone else want it open or walk through it in a way which is acceptable and good for you.

But what you do with you and your life DOES matter and you DO have influence over that.

And if he doesn’t like that much - and he may not as he probably finds the current semi-detached comfortable enough to keep doing it - just remind yourself that you are simply and honestly dealing with some of the practical effects of a spouse who chose to change the nature of your marriage and family as it was and chooses to live separately someplace else.

Fortunately, I know that he will handle things when I go to the conference.  I will make plans to have things handled, and of course their behavior is unpredictable, but I am really pretty sure that he will just stay at the house while I am gone.  I guess my fear is that telling him will elicit some kind of reaction that I won't like or will dig up issues that haven't been dealt with and will feel like a setback--even if it really isn't.  It's avoidance of the situation on my part, which I know isn't healthy. 

[Happylight]

When we have the type of contact you do, we are able to see changes, it's not linear, sometimes they will revert back to an earlier stage. The hard part is not thinking that somehow they are making "progress" because there is no way to predict what will be when they exit the crisis. And progress doesn't mean they will come home.

I used to  be fearful that I might do something that would push him further away, that would affirm to him that he was right in leaving me but I totally agree with Reinventing

Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.

My own assumption, not based on any factual data, is that there are some things that "might" impact what kind of relationship you will have in the future. Your own growth and detachment for a start. Acceptance of his crisis and being "kind" might allow a better relationship in the future. Understanding of his crisis, allows you to let him be, give him the space he needs.

Being "kind" isn't the right word perhaps but what that looked like for me is responding to his texts, offering support when he had surgeries, including him in our family times and accepting when he wanted to have dinner or drop in for tea. There are no demands made and no expectations, but there is unconditional love. Over the years, I realize that he trusts me and I am a safe place for him. He is not my "friend" but he remains an important part of my life.

But a very small part...I continue to find my own path, knowing that I am alone to face the realities of getting older.

I always have followed my inner voice, it can be very strong at times and it doesn't steer me wrong.

I also receive gifts, thoughtful and frequent from him..it was and continues to be his love language I think.

As for the changes you are experiencing in your late 40's...it's frustrating isn't it? To have always been physically fit and active. I am turning 70 in a few days and I just am not as strong as I once was physically and I hurt. I continue to build strength with weights and yoga and have lots of PT to deal with some particular issues. Yoga is particularly helpful to me and always has been.

I think that science is now rethinking the role of hormone replacement therapy for women, so you might want to investigate that.

It is confusing to have a husband who is like yours...my son in law, who never knew his father in law before his crisis, will watch us together in the kitchen and remark "mom, I just don 't understand. You are cooking and laughing and teasing one another, your favorite tunes are playing, you are enjoying a glass of wine...I just don't understand".

Welcome to the club.

Thanks for the warm welcome to club...can I please revoke my membership? .

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. 

I live in limbo.  It is my choice, I know that, and I struggle every day with deciding if I stay here or not.  I had always said if he wanted a divorce, he would have to get one, but it doesn't look like he will do that.  It is hard to think of him not returning, when in many ways, he never really completely left.  I know that I am the only one to know when I am done, but it isn't as easy for me as just saying Ok, I'm done.  I guess I will just know when I am really ready to be done.  I saw an Instagram post the other day that said, "And she kept giving grace.  Even when it was hard.  Even when it was heavy.  because God made her for more.  And this is how the healing came."  I am hoping that is true and that in time healing will come in some form.  Either by being at peace with being done, or by the healing of my marriage. 

One thing I have learned is that I don't always need to comment or share my thoughts.  Last night, we were watching TV, and the male character was in an accident and was in the hospital with his wife by his bed.  He said, "I hope that if i am ever in the hospital, you will make sure my hair and beard don't look all crazy."  I wanted to make some biting comment about our situation or his assumption that I would be there, but instead, just answered honestly and said, "Of course I would."

I actually found an online service that provides perimenopause and menopause care through chatting with a doctor.  I am starting a hormone patch this week. Friends say it has helped immediately, so fingers crossed. 

Friendship is a hard thing for me.  Hardly anyone in my life even knows we are separated, so I have probably withdrawn and avoided really forming a lot of friendships.  My daughter even said the other day that I didn't really have any friends.  My closest friends are coworkers (some of which I have worked with for 15+ years).  My friendships over the years tended to be connected to my children in some way, and now they are getting older and moving on to new things and those friendships don't seem to stand the test of time.  I am going to have to work toward forming some new friendships, but I just don't know if I am ready right now. 

I am in my last week before Christmas break and I am just putting one foot in front of the other.  Here's to moving forward and hope.
 "People speak of hope as if it is this delicate, ephemeral thing made of whispers and spider's webs. It's not. Hope has dirt on her face, blood on her knuckles, the grit of the cobblestones in her hair, and just spat out a tooth as she rises for another go." 
----My middle name is literally Hope.