[Treasur]

Ditto. You described that feeling of missing edges very well.
I remember a work trip when I got delayed getting back my train trouble, and I sobbed like a child when I suddenly realised that no-one needed me to call and tell them I was ok. I’d always teased both my mum and my husband about their requests for me to check in before, but now no one knew and no one cared. It was a horrible feeling and I felt a bit silly bc it unravelled me so.

I don’t think it’s a PTSD thing, but it’s a safety thing, that need for the tangible, small and familiar. It’s understandable and normal imho bc the world feels so much more jagged than before.

I am so sorry too that your D experienced her own betrayal of trust with that school friend and how you must have felt about it too. Sadly most of us here know that those small everyday betrayals have sharper edges when we are more vulnerable bc of a big one. We learn - as your daughter will - to pick out tribes and let the others go. But I’m sorry.

And you are right in your assessment of his msg and others are right about being kind to yourself about how you felt. In time, I promise, it will get easier to not be triggered into a response and to shrug your shoulders then go about your day. It’s just right now you are probably one foot in the old life and one foot in the new life, aren’t you? It’s a kind of purgatory sometimes but you won’t live there, just pass through.

I suspect that for most of us we do have to regrow some of our parts - and it does happen with time - but that life generally feels a bit different for a while. Sometimes in ways which can be surprising tbh and lead us to different paths. Maybe we are just like soft-shelled crabs for a little while and need a little secure pool until our new shells harden off a bit….

Kaydee’s post reminded me of a book that helped me in my fallow time called Wintering (I think) - it helped me reframe how I saw it from a negative failing thing to a more constructive healing thing. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wintering-learned-flourish-became-frozen/dp/1846045983

[Trustandlove]

Hi, AL,

Just nodding along.  Even though I am years and years into this, I completely get what you say.  It took me many years to get to the point of not being drawn in by messages like that.

I think you are doing brilliantly -- saying that this is a horrible process is a huge understatement, and a huge misdescription, actually.  I was always glad for this community because people here get it, many, even those close to us who want to, really don't.  So we stop talking about it, but I find that it's still there, underlying, even a long time later.   I wish it were something that just happened, and could recede into the distant past, but with children there is always something that comes up.

Just the other week someone close to me told me that they had seen my MLCer; and said that they wouldn't have recognised him if it weren't for the fact that he was with someone they knew.  They also think that he has screwed up his life, and say that they don't understand, but even this person, someone very close to me who has been there for me as a staunch supporter the whole time, somehow thinks that surely this can't be.  That surely he doesn't mean to not care about his children, etc.  And they would take any form of contact from him as something positive and to be encouraged, rather than seeing it as him grasping for an anchor if other things in his life aren't going well.  (they had known him as a teenager, so before I met him)

That actually made me feel a bit alone again, even after many years -- realising that as much as I do have wonderful people close to me, it's not quite the same as having "your person".

It wasn't "triggering" per se, just a reminder that this is the case. 

But to end on a more positive note, there is so much in my life now that is good, that I have built myself, and I continue to do so.

x

[UrsaMajor]

Add me to the "Been there, felt that, got the T-Shirt" crew. Even though I didn't move all that far away, I recall one of the first nights in my new apartment alone - I was SO tired that I had fallen asleep sitting in a chair in the living room. I jolted awake and it took me a good 2-3 minutes before I could actual figure out where the Hades I was and that everything was OK.

I also used to travel for work often (day trips - first plane out and last one back) but, ironically, MLCxW wasn't all that concerned if I got delayed and didn't want me to call if it meant she'd have to wake up to answer her phone.....

Nevertheless, it was still disorienting for a while to know that there wouldn't be anyone "at home" when I got back because there was no communal "at home" anymore.... At least though my dog was always happy to see me..... <snort>

[WHY]

Yesterday my H (currently living with his AP somewhere in Europe)  sent me a PM/FB memory from that date 9 years ago, it was the two of us on a motorbike with the caption I had written at the time 'ride or die, now and forever.' I recognize that he does this to try and keep me on some kind of hook, and it's manipulative I get that - unfortunately it's also v effective. I just replied, "we were happy", and he 'hearted' it. Pathetic I know. I should have written all kinds of angry things - how DARE you send this to me while you are with someone else?, in someone else's bed!, it's manipulative and gross,!  But i didn't.

This really triggers me because their cruelty knows no end...

But this may help you.  Having been through this for 2.5 years now, I've genuinely come to understand that their behaviors have nothing to do with you.  You try look at this action and rationalize or understand it, but you're looking at it from a perspective that includes you, and it has nothing to do with you (hard to believe when he's torturing you but its true). 

To the MLCer, nothing else matters in the world except them.  So in that moment, perhaps he was feeling guilt he needed to alleviate, or needed validation for the person he thinks he was, or needed comfort to know you are there when he says you should be, or that someone still cares for him which helps his self esteem etc.  Who the hell knows. 

It's all about them and the actions they pursue to prop up their self esteem. 

This has been my secret to unlocking & understanding why they do what they do.

The best thing I did was to totally disconnect from the crazy train and not react to these types of things.  I essentially cut off the supply that was being used to feed my MLCers self esteem.  It took about ~6 months, but eventually she gave up on me as her source of supply, and the torture went waaaay down.   

I would essentially not react to these things in the future, which means to not respond.

[OffRoad]

So many of us nodding along. Your descriptions are so like my own feelings.

What KayDee said about wondering if your h ever had his own edges.  Likely not since imo he WAS using your edges. In my own retrospect I found my xh had mostly mirrored me. I was what he wanted to be, but could not on his own. For a long while that seemed to have worked. I gave support and kindness and got the same in return. Until I didn't. And because I also wanted my marriage to work, I gave and gave, not even realizing how lopsided it eventually became, while he took all that I had and withheld all that he had.

I am 9 years on. It was 2 years to feel almost normal, 3.5 to feel like myself. You will get there, be kind to yourself in the meantime. You did not fail. One person cannot make a marriage work.

For your kids, all you can do is be there for them. Be the sane parent. Mine were 16 and 18 at the time, and it's been a road for all of us. My D is 28 and gets it now, has for about four years. My S is 25 and  starting to see the truth. Be there for them, don't let them play you, be the stable one.

You are understandably off kilter. This is a major life change. 

[amazinglove]

Today my D 11 discovered her dad has a gf. It was so painful to tell her and also to see her face. I will never forget it unfortunately.
We had called her cousin, my nephew, who has gone off to college and is lonely at the weekends and she asked him all of a sudden- where is my father? And he said I don’t know somewhere in Moscow prob, I heard the call and heard her incredulity and hurt. After i asked her is there anything you want to ask me? And she said what is daddy doing in Moscow? And I said he has a gf. I stuck to the bare facts and tried to reassure her that he loves her v much: it was brutal.
She then immediately blocked him on her phone. I texted him to say that she knows and how it happened and he called me - black eyed and furious. I was trying to destroy his relationship with them and she was too young to know this detail.
The thing is when I called him, he was all dressed up, in the car clearly having come back from a nice dinner.  She was in the car obvs but off camera. He is living his best life while i handle the world here. And I think he thought he could do this with my daughter not being the wiser, ever. I said to him did you expect this to be a secret forever? It’s been a year!
I am so sad and hurt for my kid. I think this will push him to divorce me faster tho, because there is less to come back for in his mind. She already won’t speak to him.
I hope I handled it ok. I did my best. This whole thing is a nightmare! As awful as it is, part of me is relieved that the truth is out- is that selfish?

[OffRoad]

Imo, your D deserved to know. Kids aren't stupid and when they suspect something and no one tells them the truth, it's like gaslighting. That you are relieved just shows you don't like lying to your D and that is never selfish.

Now comes the hard part. Her figuring out if she wants a relationship with her dad or not.

[Treasur]

he called me - black eyed and furious. I was trying to destroy his relationship with them and she was too young to know this detail.

Said the man in Moscow…..

Bc living thousands of miles away doesn’t change your relationship with your children.
And bc lying and gaslighting is how you show love and care as a parent.
And bc the problem is not what you do, it’s others’ reactions to what you do and you’re entitled to have everyone lie on your behalf too
Bc better by far for your kids to not understand why you left and where you actually are, right, than to know the basic facts?
 

It’s easy for us oldsters to see the terrible manipulation in this.
His fury was about being exposed and having to deal with the reality of the truth. Not about you, not about his daughter, not even about his role as a parent. I don’t know if I would have texted him tbh - was it some kind of knee jerk co-parent reaction? - but I certainly wouldn’t have taken his call. Bc, as you will see with time, his reaction was predictable and added nothing useful to the real priority.

Which is your girl.
And I guess your boy too now that the cat (or Moscow Mule) is out of the bag…..

I am very sorry that events forced you to have to tell her the basic facts and to watch her be shocked and hurt by that. I can’t imagine how painful that was as a mother. But I commend you as a parent, that your immediate reaction was to love and respect her enough to not lie to her or gaslight her that what she heard wasn’t what she heard. Imho as OR says, that matters. The basic truth is part of how we feel safe in the world as small humans (and big ones lol) and how we feel trusted and respected to have our own valid feelings about it. It’s the solid ground under our metaphorical feet, isn’t it? Even in a swamp.

So, no, imho it isn’t selfish.
The universe has a funny way sometimes of unfolding the truth of things.
And tbh your daughter asked her cousin bc she instinctively felt she didn’t know something that her cousin might know….she just didn’t know what the missing jigsaw piece was.
But it’s not your jigsaw piece and you’re not required to lie to your children bc your h lied to you and lies to them bc if makes his life easier. Truly you are not. After all, if he’s  doing nothing wrong, why does anyone need to lie, right? Without adult embroidery of course….but the bare facts of reality….he has a gf, he’s in Moscow with that gf. Not looking after parents, or working away, or on some mysterious mission. He left to live a different life with someone else some place else. That’s the bare truth of it as far as you know.
And there’s a lot of life truth in the premise that, painful as it can be, the truth can set us free a bit.

I can understand too your desire to reassure your kids that their father loves them.
But I’d try gently to avoid inadvertently giving the message that this is how people behave when they really love you. Bc that’s pretty confusing, isn’t it? I hope other LBS parents can share words and tactics they used bc others have been in your shoes and survived it.

Love doesn’t normally look like lies and thousands of miles away, does it? That’s part of the picture for your kids to work out for themselves and you don’t know yet where each of them will go with that. I might be tempted to try and find some words that don’t put you in the position of being his translator, or trying to make the reality more normal and ok than it feels and is. Bc it’s not your job to speak for him as an adult or even as a parent…that’s inherently part of the change when one parent leaves, isn’t it? You become parallel parents more than co-parents in reality. To say ‘I don’t know, you’d have to ask dad to explain that’ or ‘I know that dad would say that he loves you very much’. Or sometimes just ‘I don’t know….but I am here and I love you beyond words and I’m not going anywhere’. Bc that’s the truth, isn’t it?

The flavour I have of your husband is that he will probably try to unroll the same play with your daughter that he did with you….he’ll want her pity, support and understanding, he’ll blame you, and he’ll lie as much as he thinks he can get away with. It will be more about what he needs than about what your girl needs most probably. Whatever his other reasons, he’s not a courageous honest man when life gets tough, is he? His version of digging deep is a bit shallow, isn’t it….not much there, there?

I am so sorry. Tough times in front of you. But you’ll get through it together as a family minus him, I have no doubt. You are enough, my friend, more than enough. And so are your kids and the rest of your family will support you I have no doubt.

The bit you wrote that surprised me (bc nothing else did bc it is so textbook for these a$$hats grrrr) is your comment about divorce. No criticism or judgement here, but it surprised me, given that you have drawn up legal papers he is refusing to sign the last I recall. Worth reflecting perhaps on what that tells you about where your head and heart currently are maybe as opposed to where you think they are or want them to be? Idk. But from the cheap seats, like that old movie quote, if your h’s reaction to the truth coming out is to push for divorce bc he can’t handle the truth, as opposed say to jumping on a plane in order to sit down with his kids and help them understand what’s going on better and that they are important to him, would that not mean that any future relationship with him could only be built on lies? That collective self gaslighting would be the ticket to a restored family unit where everyone has to ignore the big fat elephant in the corner of the room? And you don’t sound like the kind of person who would find that a great way to live. Jmo.

But please don’t for a moment buy his BS that the problem is not what he’s done but your failure to lie on his behalf or your kids’ reactions to the truth of what he’s doing and the lies he has told them and others.
Bc that really is gaslighting 101 and you’re too smart and sane to go along with that. Xxx

[amazinglove]

Thank you both for your much valued replies.
In the “seriously how can this be for real” category - we had some necessary exchanges night before last and he asked me why I was awake in the middle of the night. And he said “take care of yourself please. I need it”
Not - take care of yourself our kids need you or take care of yourself because you are handling so much, or because you are awesome or because I care about what happens to you - but because “I need it”
He needs me alive to take care of everything. As for me - His needs factor into nothing at the moment.
But I have to say, even knowing all I know, it was a WTF moment.

[FrenchHusband]

Thank you both for your much valued replies.
In the “seriously how can this be for real” category - we had some necessary exchanges night before last and he asked me why I was awake in the middle of the night. And he said “take care of yourself please. I need it”
Not - take care of yourself our kids need you or take care of yourself because you are handling so much, or because you are awesome or because I care about what happens to you - but because “I need it”
He needs me alive to take care of everything. As for me - His needs factor into nothing at the moment.
But I have to say, even knowing all I know, it was a WTF moment.

Hi AL, regarding the "needs" of your H, I have a personal interpretation that I would like to write here : your H is likely used to sleepless nights and it is now his common MLC life. So he may see your awakening in the middle of the night as a sign you may be also in MLC ? Your H knows deeply inside that he is broken and that his life is chaotic, so it might be a shock to him if you are also in crisis. Like a teenager in crisis can have a crisis when at least one parent is stable enough. A teenager with both parents in MLC has not the luxury to have a teenager crisis (and that is IMO not a good thing, the crisis has to explode sooner rather than later)

So the real message for you is that your H needs you to take care of everything while he continues his crisis. Selfish, isn't it ? Yes a WTF moment and a WTF statement.

Good news for you is that you see it more and more clearly.